2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

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Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #30 – March 24, 2017, 10:51:55 pm

wow sorry for giving an opinion, won't make that mistake again, but seriously, some of you guys should go to a game occasionally, its a whole new perspective

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #31 – March 24, 2017, 11:23:20 pm

Quote from: Baggers on March 24, 2017, 08:54:22 pm

I suspect we'll see a much better showing from our blokes on Sunday next against the ...'Go Dees' (said with a posh lisp from a bloke wearing a Range Rover bow tie).

McKay, Palmer, Kerridge, Lamb and Graham would be in line for promotion but, looking back on last year we are loathe to make wholesale changes so I would anticipate 2, max. Should be interesting.

I really hope you're right Baggers (I won't be there due to a family commitment) but I fear the Dees may well be a bigger handful than the Tigers, even though Dusty won't be there!

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #32 – March 24, 2017, 11:31:10 pm

Quote from: Jack Burton on March 24, 2017, 10:51:55 pm

wow sorry for giving an opinion, won't make that mistake again, but seriously, some of you guys should go to a game occasionally, its a whole new perspective

Your opinions are welcome, but we don't have to agree with them!

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #33 – March 24, 2017, 11:40:42 pm

Quote from: LP on March 24, 2017, 10:07:07 pm

When Thomas got wrongly pinged for the throw I was in the bar getting a drink and the feckwits all screamed for him to fork off. Even when the video showed he was wrongly pinged they mostly did a Trump and dismissed the video like it was an alternative fact. Fecking Morons.

It was odd at "The G" last night, the atmosphere just wasn't there. As a crowd it was pretty mixed up with people just there because it was the first game. Lots of supporters from other clubs, they were more objective and balanced in their comments about the Carlton players than most of our supporters.

You should have sat with me in front of two of the most biased, one eyed Carlton, battle axes I have ever heard. At half time, I looked up stats an saw frees were 9-7 our way. One of them said "I'd like to see the free kick count". I turned to her and said "its 9-7 our way" and she looked me in the eye and said "Bulltish". They saved their best till last though, when Cripps tried to bump Dusty and came off second best, one of the battle axes yelled "Bloody Umpire, didnt you see what Martin did to Cripps". I turned to my mate at that point and said "we need to go".

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #34 – March 25, 2017, 12:23:45 am

Yep, Cripps tried to hit Martin and came off second best because he didn't commit to it.

If anyone doubts why daisy gets a game, for me it was the third quarter, ball was in dispute at half back and we managed to get it to our mids on the wing. Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas all in the vicinity. Ditto SPS. Anyhow I can't recall the entire play, but it ended with a bit of a fast break where Pickett marked inside 50 and handballed over the top to Thomas on the line who kicked an easy goal.

The bloke runs, and runs hard to make position. He does it both ways, and Kreuzer aside was one of our only players switched on at the start of the game.

His body let's him down, and blokes like him and Rowe will be criticised weekly as they're easy targets.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #35 – March 25, 2017, 10:19:56 am

Quote from: Thryleon on March 25, 2017, 12:23:45 am

If anyone doubts why daisy gets a game ... The bloke runs, and runs hard to make position. He does it both ways, and Kreuzer aside was one of our only players switched on at the start of the game.

Spot on Thry - gives both-ways effort, tackles hard, puts his frail body on the line, wins the hard ball but he needs to stop trying to kick the ball because he can't do it effectively. He and Ed Curnow need to develop their handball skills.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #36 – March 25, 2017, 10:40:08 am

Quote from: RiverRat on March 25, 2017, 10:19:56 am

Spot on Thry - gives both-ways effort, tackles hard, puts his frail body on the line, wins the hard ball but he needs to stop trying to kick the ball because he can't do it effectively. He and Ed Curnow need to develop their handball skills.

Yes. We had quite a few players that were much worse than Daisy.

too many on here knock him because they want him to fail. Very shallow-minded.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #37 – March 25, 2017, 10:57:12 am

Quote from: LP on March 24, 2017, 09:56:18 pm

In respect of last night, there would be five or six ahead of him getting the chop if the decision is based on performance.

Yet everyone is calling for his head for this game.....almost exclusively.

Peoples bias are clouding their judgements in regards to daisy.

Their bias comes from many areas.
1. His paycheque
2. His former club
3. His recruitment coinciding with the exit of a much loved small forward
4. His friendship with a not-so-loved former coach
5. His bad luck with injuries

NONE of that is his fault.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #38 – March 25, 2017, 11:55:05 am

The main issue for folks, from what I can see, is the question of his value which is obviously related to the size of his paycheck.

If, for the sake of argument, he was being paid half of what he was contracted at, would the same criticisms be advanced? Don't know, but I would suspect they would be at a much lower level.

Without criticising Daisy, but much much more was expected by many from him, primarily in terms of on field performance, for what he is/was being paid. He acknowledged that himself. I think what we are really mainly seeing is a lot of frustration being vented rather than actual blaming or hatred of him personally tbh.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #39 – March 25, 2017, 12:45:36 pm

Quote from: RiverRat on March 25, 2017, 10:19:56 am

Spot on Thry - gives both-ways effort, tackles hard, puts his frail body on the line, wins the hard ball but he needs to stop trying to kick the ball because he can't do it effectively. He and Ed Curnow need to develop their handball skills.

Agree. He ran as hard as anyone and runs to space. As silly as his contract is, we are a better side right now with him in. A smattering of very experienced players will speed up the development of the youth. Big picture

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #40 – March 25, 2017, 12:46:19 pm

Quote from: cookie2 on March 25, 2017, 11:55:05 am

The main issue for folks, from what I can see, is the question of his value which is obviously related to the size of his paycheck.

If, for the sake of argument, he was being paid half of what he was contracted at, would the same criticisms be advanced? Don't know, but I would suspect they would be at a much lower level.

Without criticising Daisy, but much much more was expected by many from him, primarily in terms of on field performance, for what he is/was being paid. He acknowledged that himself. I think what we are really mainly seeing is a lot of frustration being vented rather than actual blaming or hatred of him personally tbh.

He's clearly in our best 22, what he gets paid is irrelevant, and we cannot keep butchering our youth under the guise of accelerated development. If the likes of Daisy were not out there Thursday night we'd have lost by far more probably because we would have been even more disorganised.

Continual depressing losses are like Chinese water torture, the kids won't recover from them, the pressure will build and their only way forward will be to find greener pastures.

We need the likes of White, Thomas, Wright, Casboult, Kreuzer, Armfield, Murphy, Gibbs, E.Curnow, Rowe, etc., etc., to stand up and look after the kids. Lead them for feck sake! Not just use them as some sort of sacrificial chop-out shield of self-preservation to extend their own careers. Last Thursday only Murphy, Kreuzer, Wright and Thomas get a pass mark in this regard.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #41 – March 25, 2017, 12:57:13 pm

Quote from: LP on March 25, 2017, 12:46:19 pm

He's clearly in our best 22, what he gets paid is irrelevant, and we cannot keep butchering our youth under the guise of accelerated development. If the likes of Daisy were not out there Thursday night we'd have lost by far more probably because we would have been even more disorganised.

Continual depressing losses are like Chinese water torture, the kids won't recover from them, the pressure will build and their only way forward will be to find greener pastures.

We need the likes of White, Thomas, Wright, Casboult, Kreuzer, Armfield, Murphy, Gibbs, E.Curnow, Rowe, etc., etc., to stand up and look after the kids. Lead them for feck sake! Not just use them as some sort of sacrificial chop-out shield of self-preservation to extend their own careers. Last Thursday only Murphy, Kreuzer, Wright and Thomas get a pass mark in this regard.

He may very well be in our best 22 - not arguing about that - I'm saying that whatever he is providing, and that may be his absolute 100% best, is seen by many as costing over the odds. However, if you think that what players are paid is irrelevant then I rest my case - I won't pursue the debate any further.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #42 – March 25, 2017, 01:09:33 pm

We have too many try hard plonkers on our list. Some of them (Thomas) are plonkers because they have talent, but have been crippled by injury, and others (Curnow) are plonkers because despite great endurance, they have a poor skill set.

Too many players who have limitations for their own different reasons is a big part of the problem.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #43 – March 25, 2017, 01:10:42 pm

Quote from: cookie2 on March 25, 2017, 12:57:13 pm

He may very well be in our best 22 - not arguing about that - I'm saying that whatever he is providing, and that may be his absolute 100% best, is seen by many as costing over the odds. However, if you think that what players are paid is irrelevant then I rest my case - I won't pursue the debate any further.

What a club offers them is very relevant, once they are on the books it no longer an issue.

All the players are even-steven with each new training session, it cannot be any other way without destroying the club culture and team moral.

One of the reasons a lot of us hate MM was because of the perceived bias against certain players, mostly derived from some on-field mistake and extended into the off-field and the media by the coach who in his own words "defends his players". He wanted a band of loyal followers, a completely anarchistic and obsolete way of managing a team, and failed in his attempt by falling at the very first hurdle, trust.

But it's not just MM that has questions to answer in this regard, the attitude from the likes of Henderson, Lucas, Yarran and Everitt also needs significant scrutiny. Their "marking time" attitude can be a cancer that is almost impossible to remove. At the moment I fear we have quite a few of that type left on our list, on the surface of it Boekhorst appears to be one, I'm not sure about Jaksch, Jones, Casboult, Gorringe, Lamb or Buckley in this regard either. The biggest public indicator of this "failing trait" is a players unwillingness to sacrifice themselves for team-mates on field.

When a team-mate has the opportunity to make a block, create space, a diversion or interference it should be automatic. Those are the valuable 1%ers. Too many of our blokes either don't do it or see it as optional.

Re: 2017 Rd 2 Pre Game Panic Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #44 – March 25, 2017, 01:15:20 pm

Quote from: kruddler on March 25, 2017, 10:57:12 am

Yet everyone is calling for his head for this game.....almost exclusively.

Peoples bias are clouding their judgements in regards to daisy.

Their bias comes from many areas.
1. His paycheque
2. His former club
3. His recruitment coinciding with the exit of a much loved small forward
4. His friendship with a not-so-loved former coach
5. His bad luck with injuries

NONE of that is his fault.

I have always supported Daisy's recruitment but I think injuries have crueled his career and his time may be up. Dont care how much he gets paid, don't care where he came from, don't care who he is mates with. Can he do his role and contribute? Only the coaches know that. From an outside looking in, he doesnt look like he has much left in the tank. Time will tell.