2018 - What do you expect from the club?

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Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #165 – December 02, 2017, 05:22:12 pm

Quote from: PaulP on December 02, 2017, 02:58:46 pm

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-02/best-22-your-clubs-first-choice-for-2018

Cant disagree with much of that except for Willo who is a walk up start in the best 22 IMO. With Doc out Willo goes in for mine.
Simmo and Daisy will be a watch and see but their days are numbered I would have thought.

B: Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Caleb Marchbank
HB: Sam Docherty, Jacob Weitering, Lachie Plowman
C: Sam Petrevski-Seton, Patrick Cripps, Matthew Kennedy
HF: Charlie Curnow, Harry McKay, Matthew Wright
F: Jack Silvagni, Levi Casboult, Jarrod Pickett
Foll: Matthew Kreuzer, Ed Curnow, Marc Murphy
I/C: Paddy Dow, Zac Fisher, Darcy Lang, Dale Thomas

DEPTH

General defenders: Ciaran Byrne, Cillian McDaid, Aaron Mullett, Cameron O’Shea, Alex Silvagni, Tom Williamson
Key defenders: Jesse Glass-McCasker, Harrison Macreadie, Sam Rowe
Midfielders: David Cuningham, Nick Graham, Sam Kerridge, Lochie O’Brien, Angus Schumacher, Matt Shaw
General forwards: Jarrod Garlett, Jed Lamb, Kym Lebois, Cameron Polson
Key forwards: Tom De Koning, Patrick Kerr
Ruckmen: Matthew Lobbe, Andrew Phillips

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #166 – December 03, 2017, 09:21:38 pm

Garlett will be in the 22 Round 1.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #167 – December 04, 2017, 11:54:03 am

Minus Gibbs and Docherty my expectations have taken a hit.
Trading Gibbs was a no brainer seeing as he would have walked at the end of 2018 anyway, and we got a better deal than whatever lame compensation the AFL would have given us for a 30 year old who is short of A grade.
Docherty is a bigger loss IMO, but at least it's better to lose him for a season now that at this time next year, we have some very promising young running backs but none of them in his class.
A lot hinges on Harry McKay and whether Pickett or Garlett can establish themselves as genuine AFL footballers, if everything goes our way and we have a reasonable run with injury we could give the 8 a shake, but for that to happen we need to score an extra three goals a game minimum and it's hard to see where they're going to come from.
I really can't see Jack Silvagni developing into a multiple goal a game player, he's honest and talented but he'll never be high impact.
Charlie Curnow might kick plenty if his kicking improves, but it's a big if and he'll probably kick almost as many points as goals.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #168 – December 04, 2017, 12:50:16 pm

Quote from: flyboy77 on December 01, 2017, 10:58:03 pm

You're missing the point.

We certainly could have got Smith and Rockliff if we had paid significant overs.... the GWS blokes that chose to stay, for the moment, well no one else snared them either, did they?

Stringer, Smith and Saad are hardly world beaters.

Bit like the blokes that Port picked up - lots of meh, maybe, no thanks imo.

Garlett, Lang and Kennedy are a better trio any day.

And although obviously too early to call re the recent draftees but name a Club that has done better thsn the Blues in the last 3 national drafts?

I suspect you believe that I am missing YOUR point. So, how about this... your point seems to be that some of who we targetted in the trade week and a bit we had no chance of getting as they stayed put, some weren't that good anyway and Rockcliff went to PA for money - how do we know this for sure? And bearing all that in mind, we've done really well to get Kennedy, Lang etc. Yes, I get that point and have no trouble agreeing... besides, the option is a little grim. However, you seemed to have missed my point, which is, simply, we didn't succeed at getting a few of our primary targets. No more complicated than that. Put another way, had we secured Rockcliff, Saad and say Hopper, do you think we'd have Kennedy and Lang now? Probably not.

And in the fullness of time, who knows... maybe we'll get Sloane next year and Kelly the year after, and Kennedy and Lang turn out to be guns and Mullett and Shaw turn out to be more than useful? Fingers crossed.

As far as the draft goes, I totally agree that there does not seem to be any club that has done as well as us in the past 3 drafts...

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #169 – December 04, 2017, 02:44:29 pm

There is a lot of assumption around Rockliff and him choosing Port for money. Is there any proof that the money we offered was more, the same, or less?

We quickly assume a club who turns us down chose more money elsewhere, but it is hardly like we have been a destination club for top talent.

I don't know what money Rocky is on, but I do know that we went after him and he chose Port above us, indicating finals as being a key reason. Whether that is true or not, it holds a lot more weight than pure speculation he went for more money than we were offering.

Oh & I don't actually care that he didn't come, I just find it weird the assumptions that get made when a player doesn't come to us.

It is not like we have gone through a number of coaches with limited success, 10 years of hardly playing finals, 4 wooden spoons in about 15 years, another couple of bottom 4 finishes or been as much of an easy beat as the team he just left...
Oh wait... Come to think of it...

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #170 – December 04, 2017, 04:08:15 pm

Quote from: mateinone on December 04, 2017, 02:44:29 pm

There is a lot of assumption around Rockliff and him choosing Port for money. Is there any proof that the money we offered was more, the same, or less?

We quickly assume a club who turns us down chose more money elsewhere, but it is hardly like we have been a destination club for top talent.

I don't know what money Rocky is on, but I do know that we went after him and he chose Port above us, indicating finals as being a key reason. Whether that is true or not, it holds a lot more weight than pure speculation he went for more money than we were offering.

Oh & I don't actually care that he didn't come, I just find it weird the assumptions that get made when a player doesn't come to us.

It is not like we have gone through a number of coaches with limited success, 10 years of hardly playing finals, 4 wooden spoons in about 15 years, another couple of bottom 4 finishes or been as much of an easy beat as the team he just left...
Oh wait... Come to think of it...

I guess the only thing we know for certain is that Rockliff chose Port shortly after meeting Sticks and Juddy. Did that put him off or perhaps he didn't impress them and we went cold on the deal.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #171 – December 04, 2017, 04:56:34 pm

No assumptions...Rockliff was offered a 4 year deal by Port at a touch over 2.8 mill, we beat Brisbane's initial offer which was 550k a season but were never going to beat the Port offer. The finals angle was part BS IMO, he went for the extra dough as the major factor, he was looking for 800k last time his manager shopped him around....
We have had a recent history of offering unders...Smith went for the extra money at Essendon and then pulled the better rehab facilities story out....Bombers also paid overs for Stringer to get him..
Players go for the big dollars unless its a no hoper club like North doing the offering and coached by an ego maniac like Brad Scott...then they think twice...

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #172 – December 04, 2017, 05:17:58 pm

Quote from: mateinone on December 04, 2017, 02:44:29 pm

There is a lot of assumption around Rockliff and him choosing Port for money. Is there any proof that the money we offered was more, the same, or less?

We quickly assume a club who turns us down chose more money elsewhere, but it is hardly like we have been a destination club for top talent.

I don't know what money Rocky is on, but I do know that we went after him and he chose Port above us, indicating finals as being a key reason. Whether that is true or not, it holds a lot more weight than pure speculation he went for more money than we were offering.

Oh & I don't actually care that he didn't come, I just find it weird the assumptions that get made when a player doesn't come to us.

It is not like we have gone through a number of coaches with limited success, 10 years of hardly playing finals, 4 wooden spoons in about 15 years, another couple of bottom 4 finishes or been as much of an easy beat as the team he just left...
Oh wait... Come to think of it...

Im personally happy he didn't come.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #173 – December 04, 2017, 07:17:10 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on December 04, 2017, 04:56:34 pm

No assumptions...Rockliff was offered a 4 year deal by Port at a touch over 2.8 mill, we beat Brisbane's initial offer which was 550k a season but were never going to beat the Port offer. The finals angle was part BS IMO, he went for the extra dough as the major factor, he was looking for 800k last time his manager shopped him around....
We have had a recent history of offering unders...Smith went for the extra money at Essendon and then pulled the better rehab facilities story out....Bombers also paid overs for Stringer to get him..
Players go for the big dollars unless its a no hoper club like North doing the offering and coached by an ego maniac like Brad Scott...then they think twice...

Well said EB.

Plenty of good players have chosen to come to Carlton in recent years - Marchbank (whom GWS desperately wanted to keep), Plow, Pickett etc and lately Kennedy, Lang and even Garlett.

The vibe can't be all that bad coming out of Prinny Park?

Perhaps it comes down to the character of some types? That is, Rockliff types.... no thanks, good riddance.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #174 – December 04, 2017, 08:51:12 pm

Quote from: flyboy77 on December 04, 2017, 07:17:10 pm

Well said EB.

Plenty of good players have chosen to come to Carlton in recent years - Marchbank (whom GWS desperately wanted to keep), Plow, Pickett etc and lately Kennedy, Lang and even Garlett.

The vibe can't be all that bad coming out of Prinny Park?

Perhaps it comes down to the character of some types? That is, Rockliff types.... no thanks, good riddance.

Initially I was annoyed at missing on Rockliff but after reflecting its better we grow our own and have players all growing at the same time......the successful clubs all seem to have
their best players around the same age group.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #175 – December 04, 2017, 08:57:59 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on December 04, 2017, 08:51:12 pm

Initially I was annoyed at missing on Rockliff but after reflecting its better we grow our own and have players all growing at the same time......the successful clubs all seem to have
their best players around the same age group.

I was concerned that we needed him in light of Gibbs departure. Feeling a lot more positive now.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #176 – December 04, 2017, 09:03:36 pm

Quote from: cookie2 on December 04, 2017, 08:57:59 pm

I was concerned that we needed him in light of Gibbs departure. Feeling a lot more positive now.

Think Gibbs leaving will set us back a year probably...we have plenty of kids who can use his onball game time and learn the roles he did.
Its a changing of the guard...Simpson, Murphy, Kreuzer all will have to be replaced and its better we stagger these players leaving so Gibbs might have done us a favour by being able to train
up some kids for his role while we still have these other experienced players to help out.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #177 – December 04, 2017, 09:24:45 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on December 04, 2017, 09:03:36 pm

Think Gibbs leaving will set us back a year probably...we have plenty of kids who can use his onball game time and learn the roles he did.
Its a changing of the guard...Simpson, Murphy, Kreuzer all will have to be replaced and its better we stagger these players leaving so Gibbs might have done us a favour by being able to train
up some kids for his role while we still have these other experienced players to help out.

I was of the opinion that Gibbs leaving would set us back but, after giving it some thought, I reckon our midfield is stronger now.

We effectively lost Gibbs, Buckley, Boekhorst, Smedts, Sumner, Armfield, Palmer and Gallucci out of our potential midfielders (Smedts was primarily a defender but he did take part in our midfield rotations). We replaced that lot with Lang, Kennedy, Mullett, Shaw and Garlett, all of whom have midfield experience at AFL level. On top of that are our draft picks and I reckon Dow and O'Brien will both debut earlier rather than later.

We then have the return from injury of Cripps and Ed Curnow and another pre-season into the likes of Samo, Fisher, Cuningham and Polson.

We may not have replaced Gibbs with a player of equal ability but our midfield is significantly stronger than what we had in the last half of last season.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #178 – December 05, 2017, 06:33:25 am

Quote from: DJC on December 04, 2017, 09:24:45 pm

We may not have replaced Gibbs with a player of equal ability but our midfield is significantly stronger than what we had in the last half of last season.

Agree DJC.

Kennedy played 16 senior games last season in a team with a very strong midfield. He'll be stronger and better this coming season.

Garlett just might be a real surprise and Shaw has played over 100 games.
You don't get to play 100 games in the AFL if you are a spud.

Cripps and Ed.C. fully fit again, SPS and Fisher a year older . . . . . . Yep, plenty to look forward too.

Re: 2018 - What do you expect from the club?

Reply #179 – December 05, 2017, 08:03:50 am

Don't write off Kerridge either.

Still only 24 with 70 odd games under his belt. His form at the back end of 2017 was very good highlighted by much improved disposal.....

Darcy Lang and Pickett also have claims to more midfield time too.

I really don't think we'll miss Gibbs at al - and with due respect to Bryce he did have a bit of a give the ball to me attitude with his team mates a lot of the time imo