Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

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Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

July 30, 2017, 07:04:38 pm

Saturday 5th August
2.10 PM
MCG

Sooooooooooo.

Woosh has released the shackles, and in between flaky moments, they play some good footy. Some decent players in good form - Joe D, Hurley, Hooker, Orazio, Tipungwuti, Zach.

And us, well we're us.

Bombers by 5 goals.

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #1 – July 30, 2017, 07:30:48 pm

Cant see us even getting close but who knows. Just the sort of game we need to at least get the so called leaders to fire up.

Kruezer simply has to right to play for us to have any chance.

I would leave out White and Lamb and bring in Bryne (if fit) and would like to see Pickett get another chance. We need some foot speed to have any chance against them.

Maybe the weather is kind to us and it buckets down like last time.

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #2 – July 30, 2017, 08:27:39 pm

I don't rate this mob that highly, IMO we are always a chance with them no matter the ladder position.
Go Blues

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #3 – July 30, 2017, 08:54:10 pm

Playing this many kids in a side means you will have very up and down moments.

Obviously against the cats it was very much a down moment.

This could be our up moment.....but all logic points to otherwise.

No ruck.
Half a midfield
3rd rate forwardline

We'll need someone playing out of their skins to even give us a sniff.

Curnowfides will need to kick 6!

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #4 – July 30, 2017, 08:58:09 pm

These boys need to crack in all game like they have been doing not sure what happened against geelong but must not repeat that crap

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #5 – August 01, 2017, 12:18:15 pm

maybe ess thinking about ADL game the following week and we SURPRISE them with a new game plan
jones v danna at all times in the fwd line simple

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #6 – August 01, 2017, 12:20:52 pm

Be interesting to see if SpecialK is ruled out later today.

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #7 – August 01, 2017, 12:50:58 pm

Quote from: shawny on July 30, 2017, 07:30:48 pm

and would like to see Pickett get another chance. We need some foot speed to have any chance against them.

no thanks

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #8 – August 01, 2017, 12:56:39 pm

Quote from: maxm68 on August 01, 2017, 12:50:58 pm

no thanks

Even though he produced some of the highlights of the game, Pickett had only 9 possessions for the day. That does not suggest 'promotion' to me. Even though Sumner has managed it before.
I don't think Sumner will get promoted either.

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #9 – August 01, 2017, 01:10:02 pm

If Kreuzer doesn't come up, I'd be using Casboult and Jones to ruck and play forward.

I would like to see Bolton, somewhat unleash the boys a bit and release the shackles on the game plan we have. It;'s only going to hurt us IMHO from now until the end of the year.

I think some exciting brand of footy to ignite the boys and excite them, get them playing on instinct and use their natural talents, would be ideal right now. I don't think we necessarily need to wait until 2018 for this to occur.

Element of surprise also!

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #10 – August 01, 2017, 01:38:43 pm

Quote from: Pratty on August 01, 2017, 01:10:02 pm

If Kreuzer doesn't come up, I'd be using Casboult and Jones to ruck and play forward.

I would like to see Bolton, somewhat unleash the boys a bit and release the shackles on the game plan we have. It;'s only going to hurt us IMHO from now until the end of the year.

I think some exciting brand of footy to ignite the boys and excite them, get them playing on instinct and use their natural talents, would be ideal right now. I don't think we necessarily need to wait until 2018 for this to occur.

Element of surprise also!

Would releasing the shackles be better for their education??

Or would it hinder the ability for players to learn our game plan??

Ratts won what he won because he released the shackles and told them all to stream forward. We never reigned it back in again though, and players stopped developing and unless you hit the ground running playing a particular way, your education ended there.

We need to do whats in our best interests contest by contest, and not geared towards any other outcome but what is good for "insert players name" developement.

Harry has played two senior AFL games now. He is applying learning of playing a certain way to his time at AFL level. Now, he isnt the only one, but given how long it has taken some of them to come on, should we change it up just because the season is over?? Process over outcome. We stick to the process to yield better outcomes. Sometimes change will be mutually exclusive, and perhaps we will need to, but its not to "release" anything, but rather to stop people nullyfying our game plan.

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #11 – August 01, 2017, 01:58:21 pm

So, teaching players to flood back, chip and kick, play a zone etc. constitutes learning and development, yet encouraging players to kick a winning score by being more offensive constitutes what exactly ? No learning and no development ?

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #12 – August 01, 2017, 02:22:01 pm

Quote from: PaulP on August 01, 2017, 01:58:21 pm

So, teaching players to flood back, chip and kick, play a zone etc. constitutes learning and development, yet encouraging players to kick a winning score by being more offensive constitutes what exactly ? No learning and no development ?

This is the biggest problem and risk with the 'defensive' approach we have taken - it now appears like it has become 'all or nothing' for the players. They are playing a very negative style, with no one creating run or space. Everyone is concerned about covering their man or the space - especially in the back line. Last week we had less than 100 handballs, and no overlap run or creativity out of the backline at all. This makes it incredibly simple for the opposition to play against.

I will continue to bang on about the need for a more 'balanced' approach. To win football games you need to score, and you need to generate at least 25 scoring shots per game to have a better than even money chance. You can't 'flick the switch' as some people advocate - just look at Fremantle as a perfect example of what happens when you priortise defence over attack. It takes years to remedy.

Our guys have to learn that to win games at this level you need to create scoring opportunities with just as much priority as defending. It is all about balance and teaching guys about when to attack and when to defend within the game and the context of the situation they face.

All the stats tell you our first instinct is almost always to go short or sideways with a kick, no overlap runners, and if in doubt kick long down the line to a contest. From a stoppage a hack kick is preferred to a creative handpass to someone spreading into space [usually because no one is]. If we can't find a better a balance between defensive play and attack I really fear we will continue to get smashed like last week because we aren't physically strong enough, and our medium / long term prospects will be damaged.

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #13 – August 01, 2017, 02:52:48 pm

Excellent post sbf. There are too many cliches and myths around all sports, including ours, and no real in depth, factual analysis, so the myths continue.

Malthouse was supposedly uber defensive, but if you look at the Pies in 2011, you will see that this is nonsense. No flag of course, but they had the highest points for, lowest against, and a % of 167. Similarly in 2011 we finished 5th and even though Ratts was supposedly attack only, we were 5th in points for and 5th for points conceded. This, to me, is how it should be done - teaching a balance between attack and defense.

When I watch us now, it seems to me that we possess the ball not to do anything useful with it, but merely to ensure the opposition doesn't - possession based on fear.

This season we are on track to finish last in points for and 8th in points conceded - it may all end up rosy, but at this point I don't like it. I don't like it one bit.

Re: Rd 20 : Pre Game thread - Carlton V Essendon

Reply #14 – August 01, 2017, 03:00:27 pm

I think you guys have misunderstood my post.

Im actually asking more questions rather than providing answers, and then stating that all we need to do is the best course of action to improve our players.

Im not the coach, and I dont have those answers, but Bolton seems to have an idea of what he wants, and I can only imagine that we all dont really know because we dont undersand it, not because anyone is "right" or "wrong".