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Author Topic: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons  (Read 914 times)

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Offline chalkybill

  • TAC Cup Player
Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2018, 02:21:18 AM »
For the life of me I cannot see the problem.  Why was AFLW started?  Because many females wanted to play footy and it wasn't fair to them to pit girls/women against blokes.  So we gathered enough females together to start a separate comp.  Where are the other transgenders who want to play footy so that they can have their own comp?

Offline northernblue

  • VFL Player
Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2018, 10:44:32 PM »
I think a lot of this discussion is driven by religious/homophobic idealology.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:13:20 AM by Lods »

Offline LP

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Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2018, 11:23:55 AM »
@NB, Mouncey should be free to play all the AFL she likes, it's Mouncey playing AFLW I have a problem with! I'm sure there are plenty of gay AFL players, it's people using terms like those in your post that stops them being more public about it! )

If Mouncey can play AFLW after more than two decades of testosterone driven musculoskeletal development, why ban testosterone as a PED? Why can't all the AFLW girls get on testosterone? Why wouldn't some megalomaniac parent place their teenage daughter on testosterone PEDs for a few years well ahead of their AFLW career?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 11:30:39 AM by LP »
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Offline Thryleon

  • Club Legend
Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2018, 01:41:38 PM »
I think a lot of this discussion is driven by religious/homophobic idealology.


Inference you.

I have no issues with anything in particular, but I have a couple of problems I am having with the ideology coming from the LBGTI community.

#Bornthisway unless you are trans, in which case, then you are what you feel you are....

Combine that with mental health being far too fledgling, then I have real issues with the realm of gender disphoria, and how we as a society have arrived at the solution being, you can be whatever you feel.  It stems from a "i don't fit the male/female stereotype, but I think I would be more comfortable as the other stereotype".

News flash, there is no such thing as normal.  Some blokes wear dresses (or kilts) and like girly things.  Some women wear pants, and dislike girly things and would rather be one of the boys.  This doesnt make them a different gender, it just makes them a bit different, and that needs to be accepted, rather than rejected from one club because they are more like the other.

In a very small minority, (DJC's stats) there is genuine scope for a bit of I broke the mould, but its less than 1/100th of a percent and with a little bit more open mindedness surounding gender identities, we should find that we get more people happily identifying with the appropriate gender if we don't focus on blokes being super blokey as a norm, and women being super girly as a norm (Think Ken and Barbie).  These people are an extreme in their own right.

My argument comes from a more inclusive perspective, not based on any religious or homophobic ideology.  The problem I have, is that we should focus on people rather than how we group them as that is when we truly become inclusive.  Gender is tied to identity, in a way that sexuality isn't, and frankly we don't need to know about people's sexuality to accept them for who or what they are.  The liberation movement has gone too far and can be quite distasteful and that applies to heterosexual people as well as this community.  I hear some of the chatter from the early teenagers and they are highly inappropriate and I think that's to do with where we have arrived as a society.  Its not the way forward.  We need to re-establish some decorum.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:12:33 AM by Lods »
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Offline LP

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Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2018, 04:09:23 PM »
I do not get the "equality" part of the pro-Mouncey arguments, because it may be "gender equality" but it's clearly not "physical equality"!

You could argue allowing Hanna Mouncey to play against smaller lightweight opponents is almost anathema to equality!

As a friend of mine half-joked at the weekend, one good thing to come out of this situation. Any girl playing AFLW that survives a physical collision/confrontation with Mouncey has a very good case to argue for her permission to nominate for the AFL!

I hope SOS is watching, because a good chunk of our AFL list probably wouldn't survive a collision with Mouncey all that well!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 04:12:45 PM by LP »
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Offline northernblue

  • VFL Player
Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2018, 10:51:18 PM »
I do not get the "equality" part of the pro-Mouncey arguments, because it may be "gender equality" but it's clearly not "physical equality"!

You could argue allowing Hanna Mouncey to play against smaller lightweight opponents is almost anathema to equality!

As a friend of mine half-joked at the weekend, one good thing to come out of this situation. Any girl playing AFLW that survives a physical collision/confrontation with Mouncey has a very good case to argue for her permission to nominate for the AFL!

I hope SOS is watching, because a good chunk of our AFL list probably wouldn't survive a collision with Mouncey all that well!

Thank you for allaying my fears about your prejudices, so what you are saying is if Hannah weighed 50kg you would be her biggest fanboi.
I think DJC made mention of someone the size of our young 25 meeting Sandilands head on...
obviously no problem to you 👍🏼

Offline LP

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Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2018, 12:21:23 AM »
Thank you for allaying my fears about your prejudices, so what you are saying is if Hannah weighed 50kg you would be her biggest fanboi.
I think DJC made mention of someone the size of our young 25 meeting Sandilands head on...
obviously no problem to you 👍🏼

Our young 25 Fisher competing and colliding with the girls would not be fair either! ;)
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 07:57:14 AM by LP »
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Offline northernblue

  • VFL Player
Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2018, 08:28:46 AM »
Our young 25 Fisher competing and colliding with the girls would not be fair either! ;)

Weight divisions now... ?
Sheeds just rang, hes proud of you ! 👍🏼

Offline LP

  • Hall Of Fame
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Re: VFLW Rd 5: Carlton vs Darebin Falcons
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2018, 10:01:51 AM »
Weight divisions now... ?
Sheeds just rang, hes proud of you ! 👍🏼

The exact opposite really.

An entity can debate using any number of voices, but it won't improve their accuracy!

You can try and paint me however you like but you have no idea who you are corresponding with, what my background is or who I socialise with. You're just trying to make slurs instead of debating the issues, "Post Truth" era Internet mudslinging is not going to resolve this debate. Using those tactics is just exposing your own fears, prejudices and paranoias!

Zac Fisher, Alex Marcou, Greg Williams, Caleb Daniel, size is basically irrelevant in the issue. But if you want to discuss it, Zac Fisher is above the average size of an AFLW competitor yet not as big as the biggest, but he'd be stronger than the biggest of the girls, faster than the fastest, more aggressive than probably any. It would be completely inequitable to the competitors in the AFLW if any of the men listed above were allowed to play in the AFLW competition, no matter what size they are! Yet perhaps not in Mouncey's case! ;)

The girls would be intimidated playing against the men if the men competed to the limit of their physical ability and aggression, maybe Mouncey won't play as intensely as she potentially could, maybe Mouncey will dial it back, what then the integrity of the competition? Mickey Mouse might be a good description, why watch it, why even have it!

If by some stroke of bad luck Mouncey has a heavy collision with a fellow competitor, and that competitor is severely injured, regardless of Mouncey's welfare, size or gender identification, the competition will probably be compromised in the eyes of the general public! Minority demands and desires will have little or no impact on the political outcome or the major sponsors dollar.

As much as it would be nice for an inclusive ideology to win the day, what is to stop the AFLW teams actively recruiting transitioned East Germans, African Americans or West Indians, the world is available to clubs. Despite a lack of skills and experience, within a few seasons many of the local girls would be effectively become obsolete. Those debating the Moucney cause will claim that it will never happen, but they are burying their head in the sand.

I've even read one blog comment along the lines that foreigners wouldn't be accepted by the competition. What sort of counter-argument is that, the allegation is that the AFLW girls will band together and ostracize an import, they will never accept them, it's ironic that putting an import in conventry is suggested as a solution, at best it is discriminatory at worst xenophobic!

It won't happen, but it will once money is involved, best tell Mason Cox or Mike Pyke, the AFL already imports international athletes to compete with and against the experienced locals on far more equitable terms than transitioned men versus females!

Some argue the AFLW money is not enough of a reason, but arguing that just exposes an ignorance on the difficulty life and earning a living can be for a transitioned male, AFLW wages even at the current levels would appear to some transitioned males as a pot of gold!

Does Mouncey playing AFLW resolve any of her identity issues, is this what this whole debate is about?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:05:13 AM by LP »
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