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Author Topic: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad  (Read 1151 times)

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Offline Lods

  • Administrator
  • Assistant Coach
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2018, 11:03:07 AM »
I'll disagree a little, if you can prevent a dominant ruckman from getting the hitouts and influencing the game like a Sandilands, Grundy or Nic Nat then
a lesser skilled tap ruckman still has a purpose..

Yep
No doubt there is a place for a 'stopper' ruckman

But that 'íntervention' will show up as a reduced output in the dominant ruckman's hit-out statistics

Offline LP

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Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2018, 11:20:44 AM »
Yep
No doubt there is a place for a 'stopper' ruckman

But that 'íntervention' will show up as a reduced output in the dominant ruckman's hit-out statistics

As you probably know Lods good ruckmen look at the contest in far more detail than the tap.

For those not detailed in the craft an example. Drive your knee into the opponents left or right side/hip and you turn their body in the air forcing a bias in the direction of their taps even if they are winning them.

Another example, jumping early or late can influence an opponent to tap forward or behind them.

Sam Newman was a first class exponent of moving the averages in favour of his team, which is why he was such a good ruck coach. He took a far more holistic approach than jump higher and get your hands on the ball first.

It's a blight on the game that the modern ruck coaches are not able to implement strategies to deal with these small players taking ruck contests.

Another big issue is the current umpiring and rule implementation. When rucks come up against players like Cotchin they are basically being penalised by umpires for being stronger, taller and heavier. If they dispose of the Cotchin type player from the contest they are penalised, but the Cotchin type player can get up under the armpit of the ruckmen and move him off the line without penalty! It's a ludicrous situation that stoppage coaches are taking advantage of!

I've said this once before, the AFL ruck coaches need to get their head around the rules. I'd be coaching the rucks to nominate then move back 10m to take an aggressive run at the drop zone. The small players and opponents cannot shepherd that run without being penalised, and the large player is free to jump into them aggressively if the small opponent stands under the drop zone. I'm surprised some of the more aggressive rucks haven't worked this out for themselves already! Turn the boundary line throw ins and around the ground ball ups into old style ruck contests without a circle!
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 11:26:15 AM by LP »
The Force Awakens!

Offline kruddler

  • Club Legend
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2018, 01:33:22 PM »
I'll disagree a little, if you can prevent a dominant ruckman from getting the hitouts and influencing the game like a Sandilands, Grundy or Nic Nat then
a lesser skilled tap ruckman still has a purpose..

Preventing that dominant ruckman from getting hitouts and influencing games is directly reflected in the 'hitouts to advantage' stats. Which is why i said thats the only thing worth mentioning. Hitouts itself shows how many times a player got his hand on the ball, not how effective that was.

Online laj

  • Brownlow Medallist
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2018, 04:58:41 PM »
To show you how useless the hitout stat is have a look at this.

Team A: 76 hitouts.
Team B: 29 hitouts

Team A: 36 clearances
Team B: 54 clearances

Team A: 4.2.26
Team B: 20.14.134

Team A: Gold Coast
Team B: GWS.

Agree there.

When GWS played Brisbane, Brisbane won the hitouts 47-4 but were beaten in the clearances. GWS just used 2 of their tall forwards as rucks, one being Patton.

Offline LP

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Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2018, 06:37:09 PM »
Agree there.

When GWS played Brisbane, Brisbane won the hitouts 47-4 but were beaten in the clearances. GWS just used 2 of their tall forwards as rucks, one being Patton.

Well, Patton's hardly Shaun Grigg! :o

It's not too big of a stretch to imagine Patton slotting comfortably into our 2nd ruck role! ;D
The Force Awakens!

Offline shawny

  • VFL Player
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2018, 04:36:08 PM »
Walters got one week ban so he will miss.

Very dangerous forward and exactly the type we always struggle to contain.

Massive out i reckon.

Online laj

  • Brownlow Medallist
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2018, 04:37:48 PM »
Well, Patton's hardly Shaun Grigg! :o

It's not too big of a stretch to imagine Patton slotting comfortably into our 2nd ruck role! ;D

What I was saying though was GWS didn't pick a ruck that week, lost the taps 47-4 but won the clearances.

Online deags

  • VFL Player
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2018, 03:24:43 PM »


It's a blight on the game that the modern ruck coaches are not able to implement strategies to deal with these small players taking ruck contests...


I've said this once before, the AFL ruck coaches need to get their head around the rules. I'd be coaching the rucks to nominate then move back 10m to take an aggressive run at the drop zone. The small players and opponents cannot shepherd that run without being penalised, and the large player is free to jump into them aggressively if the small opponent stands under the drop zone. I'm surprised some of the more aggressive rucks haven't worked this out for themselves already! Turn the boundary line throw ins and around the ground ball ups into old style ruck contests without a circle!

The problem is, and it's another blight on the game, is that most rucks have absolutely o idea how to time their run and jump in a ruck contest. I think it's embarrassing for them

Offline Thryleon

  • Senior Coach
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 03:43:24 PM »
The problem is, and it's another blight on the game, is that most rucks have absolutely o idea how to time their run and jump in a ruck contest. I think it's embarrassing for them

It might help if the umpires could bounce a ball properly.

Or throw it up so that they can actually get out of the way before the rucks come into the contest.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Offline LP

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Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 04:02:59 PM »
What I was saying though was GWS didn't pick a ruck that week, lost the taps 47-4 but won the clearances.

@Laj, GWS had Lobb, Patton and Cameron, do they need more?

Lobb broke his ribs in the 1st quarter and didn't play after 1/2-time, they won't ruck Cameron due to his injury history, so they rucked Patton who is horribly out of form and Himmelberg who is undersized against Witts who is in red hot form, could be a good reason for the tap count! ;)

I suppose they could have rucked Davis, they have done it before, but when he's stopping Lynch why change because no Lynch means no GC!
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 04:05:20 PM by LP »
The Force Awakens!

Online flyboy77

  • Brownlow Medallist
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2018, 05:36:47 PM »
INJURY LIST
Player   Injury   Duration
Levi Casboult   Rib   Test
Alex Silvagni   Achilles   Test
Cillian McDaid   Foot   Test
Matthew Kennedy   Ankle   Test
Jarrod Pickett   Scaphoid   Test
Kym Lebois   Collarbone   Test

Caleb Marchbank   Ankle   1 week
Ciaran Byrne   Quad   2 weeks
Harrison Macreadie   Hamstring   2 weeks
Marc Murphy   Plantar fascia   2-3 weeks
Tom Williamson   Back   Season
Sam Docherty   Knee   Season
Updated June 12, 2018       
GF in 2019, then 3 flags back to back!

Offline Lods

  • Administrator
  • Assistant Coach
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2018, 06:28:56 PM »
In: Casboult, Graham
Out:O Shea. Cunningham

Emergencies -Mullett, O'Shea, Polson , Phillips
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 06:33:07 PM by Lods »

Offline kruddler

  • Club Legend
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2018, 06:34:30 PM »
In: Casboult, Graham
Out:O Shea. Cunningham

Emergencies -Mullett, O'Shea, Polson , Phillips

How long have we been calling for that one?

Not a single backman in to replace him?!

Has Bolton lost the plot and started picking a more balanced side for a change?

Offline Jack Burton

  • Promoted Rookie
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2018, 06:44:02 PM »
Does that mean Kennedy and Pickett failed fitness tests?

Online blue4life

  • Elite Player
Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2018, 06:47:07 PM »
In: Casboult, Graham
Out:O Shea. Cunningham

Emergencies -Mullett, O'Shea, Polson , Phillips

Happy with that, Cunningham has talent but his past couple of games have been poor, so have O'Shea's but he doesn't have much talent.
Hoping for a big effort by the seniors and for Harry to stake a claim.
The only thing in this world worth more than a hill of beans is the Carlton Football Club.

 

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