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Topic: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad (Read 8873 times) previous topic - next topic
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2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Next weekend the Blues play Freo at Etihad with the potential to have a player or two back. More coming back in the next few weeks.
Alas, I will not be attending> I'll be taking my younger daughter for a Dance Eisteddfod at Kyabram. No way I can get down in time. :(

Freo will probably have Sandilands and Fyffe back. Kreuzer often struggled against Sandilands. I'd be playing another ruck, but that doesn't tend to suit our selection criteria. 
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #1
Next weekend the Blues play Freo at Etihad with the potential to have a player or two back. More coming back in the next few weeks.
Alas, I will not be attending> I'll be taking my younger daughter for a Dance Eisteddfod at Kyabram. No way I can get down in time. :(

Freo will probably have Sandilands and Fyffe back. Kreuzer often struggled against Sandilands. I'd be playing another ruck, but that doesn't tend to suit our selection criteria.

No point as we'll lose nearly every tapout anyway. Pick a runner and rover to the opposition. Many a side's been smashed in the tapouts and won the clearances. Happens on a weekly basis in quite a few games.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #2
No point as we'll lose nearly every tapout anyway. Pick a runner and rover to the opposition. Many a side's been smashed in the tapouts and won the clearances. Happens on a weekly basis in quite a few games.

While I tend to agree, wasn’t winning the ruck one of the five key stats required to win games?

I’d like to see Kreuzer focus on making Sandilands work hard, both in ruck contests and, more importantly, around the ground.  Sandilands won’t run with Kreuzer and Kreuzer should exploit that.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #3
While I tend to agree, wasn’t winning the ruck one of the five key stats required to win games?

I’d like to see Kreuzer focus on making Sandilands work hard, both in ruck contests and, more importantly, around the ground.  Sandilands won’t run with Kreuzer and Kreuzer should exploit that.

Winning hitouts is as pointless as recruiting Warnock!

Kreuzer is currently ranked 6th in the AFL ruck ratings, despite missing games with injury, and rarely doing better than a break even in the taps to advantage! In the other 80% of ruck work he is excellent! ;)

Dockers have won the hitouts in all but two games this season, against Norp and Collingwood(No Sandilands) they were beaten in hitouts to advantage, but Freo lost 7 games out of 11 games! Even with Fyfe back to nearly career best form! That is because taps are worthless if your ruck doesn't follow them up with shepherds, tackles, clearances and linked possessions.

When Sandilands taps these days that is almost the end of his participation in the game, he does not recover well, and rarely makes it to the fall of the ball in time to give assistance to his mid-fielders. It's not his tap work that has diminished, it's his 2nd or 3rd efforts that have almost evaporated!

Levi Casboult please take note, although I concede you have been better in 2018. If only you would learn to do something instantly when your feet return to the ground! ;)
The Force Awakens!

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #4
While I tend to agree, wasn’t winning the ruck one of the five key stats required to win games?

I’d like to see Kreuzer focus on making Sandilands work hard, both in ruck contests and, more importantly, around the ground.  Sandilands won’t run with Kreuzer and Kreuzer should exploit that.

Wouldn't have thought so these days, but winning clearances helps. Many sides win those while getting smashed in the tapouts.

Anyway, I agree with what you say.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #5
Hitouts is a useless stat.

Hitouts to advantage is where its at.

Thing with Sandilands is, he gets more hitouts to advantage than anyone else....and not simply because he gets more hitouts overall. Basically his conversion of a hitout into a hitout to advantage is probably the best going around. (At least it was a couple years ago when figures were published)

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #6
Winning hitouts is as pointless as recruiting Warnock!

Kreuzer is currently ranked 6th in the AFL ruck ratings, despite missing games with injury, and rarely doing better than a break even in the taps to advantage! In the other 80% of ruck work he is excellent! ;)

Dockers have won the hitouts in all but two games this season, against Norp and Collingwood(No Sandilands) they were beaten in hitouts to advantage, but Freo lost 7 games out of 11 games! Even with Fyfe back to nearly career best form! That is because taps are worthless if your ruck doesn't follow them up with shepherds, tackles, clearances and linked possessions.

When Sandilands taps these days that is almost the end of his participation in the game, he does not recover well, and rarely makes it to the fall of the ball in time to give assistance to his mid-fielders. It's not his tap work that has diminished, it's his 2nd or 3rd efforts that have almost evaporated!

Levi Casboult please take note, although I concede you have been better in 2018. If only you would learn to do something instantly when your feet return to the ground! ;)

Winning hitouts is one of SIX key stats;

Quote
Three other statistics are more important to team success this year compared to last.

Hit-outs (the ruck revolution), shot-at-goal accuracy (amid 50-year lows in scoring) and handball metres gained (the Tiger effect) have all rocketed in statistical influence on victories.

The club with more hit-outs wins 57.3 per cent of the time in 2018 (43.7 per cent in 2017), better shot-at-goal accuracy is 72.6 (up from 60.3), and extra handball metres gained is 57.1 (44.4).

The first three are contested possessions (65.6 per cent success rate), disposal efficiency (69 per cent) and pressure factor (62.2 per cent).
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #7
Hitouts is a useless stat.

Hitouts to advantage is where its at.

Thing with Sandilands is, he gets more hitouts to advantage than anyone else....and not simply because he gets more hitouts overall. Basically his conversion of a hitout into a hitout to advantage is probably the best going around. (At least it was a couple years ago when figures were published)
And that is what usually kills us.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #8
And that is what usually kills us.

Not so much, we aren't bad with the clearances. Won them 5 times, lost them 4, twice by one, other two level. Against Essendon we got smashed in the hitouts but comfortably won the clearance count.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #9
To show you how useless the hitout stat is have a look at this.

Team A: 76 hitouts.
Team B: 29 hitouts

Team A: 36 clearances
Team B: 54 clearances

Team A: 4.2.26
Team B: 20.14.134

Team A: Gold Coast
Team B: GWS.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #10
Sounds like a pretty useless ruckmen who can't direct the ball to his team's advantage. ;) :D

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #11
Good rucks do not need to win the tap to influence where the ball goes.

A weakness of many players like Sandilands is that they never learned how to influence contests when they are not getting the first hand on the ball!
The Force Awakens!

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #12
Sounds like a pretty useless ruckmen who can't direct the ball to his team's advantage. ;) :D

and thats why hitouts to advantage is the only stat that matters.

Hitouts itself is irrelevent.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #13
and thats why hitouts to advantage is the only stat that matters.

Hitouts itself is irrelevent.

I was adding weight to an earlier point you had made ;) ;D

It's true though
It's meaningless who gets their hand on the ball first as a statistic.

We think back to some of the work of great ruckmen of the past and they could virtually put it straight into the hands of their rovers and mids....or to a position where they could run onto it.

But the congestion and tagging of the modern game makes it much harder to direct the ball and then for some advantage to be made of that possession...
If they're going to keep the stat it should at least be dependent on a teammate gaining possession for it to count.
While it may go nowhere after that, it at least demonstrates the skill of the ruckman.

Re: 2018 Rd 13: Pre Game Pressure: Carlton vs Fremantle at Etihad

Reply #14
and thats why hitouts to advantage is the only stat that matters.

Hitouts itself is irrelevent.

I'll disagree a little, if you can prevent a dominant ruckman from getting the hitouts and influencing the game like a Sandilands, Grundy or Nic Nat then
a lesser skilled tap ruckman still has a purpose..