To my great pleasure, the AFLW season kicks off on Friday evening at Carlton at 19:40 hours, with out Beautiful Blues taking on Collingwood. It should be an excellent game. I hope it is as good as last year's game was.
The Blues will be unleashing of our 2 big name recruits, both of whom survived the practice match last weekend. Darcy Vescio did more than just survive it: she showed just how good she is after a big break with knee surgery. I bet Nicola Stevens is happy to be in our colours this time, instead of trying to stop Darcy.
The game has free entry, but a big crowd is probable. Get there early!
I too will be looking forward to it.
This year i won't have the birth of my child to distract me from the game.
Looking forward to seeing Tayla Harris is action wearing navy blue with Darcy Vescio scampering around her feet. Lethal forward duo.
We are great front and back. I'm not too convinced about our midfield. Arnell is a little slow and I can't see too many others coming through.
We are great front and back. I'm not too convinced about our midfield. Arnell is a little slow and I can't see too many others coming through.
My thoughts too Jofo.
I think we've got some grunt in there. Have we got the speed and class?
We are great front and back. I'm not too convinced about our midfield. Arnell is a little slow and I can't see too many others coming through.
Interestingly, only Arnell and Bri Davey were classes as 'elite' from champion data stats.
No Vescio, no Harris....although the latters form last year is understandable somewhat.
Interestingly, only Arnell and Bri Davey were classes as 'elite' from champion data stats.
No Vescio, no Harris....although the latters form last year is understandable somewhat.
How Vescio missed out is amazing: Mark of the Year, top goal kicker and more.
I am pleased to see Arnell in the 'elite' group, though. She is a class act.
What I wanted for us was to improve our midfield. Instead we recruited a key forward and a key defender. Granted that they could be very good players, but I was still thinking midfielders. In the draft we picked up a few. I hope they can add the pace we lacked last year in the middle.
I wish the Carlton website would have an ability to split the news up so you can easily filter out the women's news stories.
For those who have little interest the Carlton site is currently quite frustrating to view.
Simply an option to customize your view would the site much better.
I wish the Carlton website would have an ability to split the news up so you can easily filter out the women's news stories.
For those who have little interest the Carlton site is currently quite frustrating to view.
Simply an option to customize your view would the site much better.
The only reason I would ever watch the AFLW is because some of our players in the senior mens team will probably end up playing there :)
The only reason I would ever watch the AFLW is because some of our players in the senior mens team will probably end up playing there :)
or unless my daughter starts playing in years to come..... but each to their own.
Biases are generally embedded and hard to shift.
I started watching the girls without any pre-conception of it relative to mens footy. I don't judge them relative to the men or any other men, so I enjoy the womens game as a very different product with different strategies, tactics and skill sets.
The same will apply to AFLX, if you think you are going to another game of footy you've already lost the point!
AFLW and AFLX are different games, you should not expect more of the same as AFL or VFL!
Of course there is no possibility that people just don't like the women's game is there?
You can expect a different product and not like that product.
I might think differently about women's football in the future, but at the moment I don't find it interesting at all. I only know the names of a few players because they are on the front page of the Carlton site, but I don't both reading almost any of the women's articles.
I don't want the women's game to be shutdown, I fully support their being a women's competition, I support the AFL putting time and money into the competition in the aim that eventually it will generate it's own revenue streams and give women a similar chance to make a living out of football as men if the public are prepared to put their money behind it.
Personally though, I currently find the game boring. If I had a niece or someone playing, of course I would show more interest, but then I would show interest if I had a niece or nephew playing any sport at the highest level available to them.
All for Carlton having a team, I would just like the option of reading about the team I want to read about.. The Carlton Football Club's AFL team without having to siphon through the AFLW stuff.
It should be something that is easy enough to do as well, have 3 options.. Show All, Show Men's, Show Women's.
The same goes with the AFLX concept.. It might be a fun game, but there are hundreds of sports out there and the team could also play water polo in the preseason and I wouldn't be interested in that either, other than wishing it would go away so the preseason proper can get started.
Of course there is no possibility that people just don't like the women's game is there?
You can expect a different product and not like that product.
I might think differently about women's football in the future, but at the moment I don't find it interesting at all. I only know the names of a few players because they are on the front page of the Carlton site, but I don't both reading almost any of the women's articles.
I don't want the women's game to be shutdown, I fully support their being a women's competition, I support the AFL putting time and money into the competition in the aim that eventually it will generate it's own revenue streams and give women a similar chance to make a living out of football as men if the public are prepared to put their money behind it.
Personally though, I currently find the game boring. If I had a niece or someone playing, of course I would show more interest, but then I would show interest if I had a niece or nephew playing any sport at the highest level available to them.
All for Carlton having a team, I would just like the option of reading about the team I want to read about.. The Carlton Football Club's AFL team without having to siphon through the AFLW stuff.
It should be something that is easy enough to do as well, have 3 options.. Show All, Show Men's, Show Women's.
The same goes with the AFLX concept.. It might be a fun game, but there are hundreds of sports out there and the team could also play water polo in the preseason and I wouldn't be interested in that either, other than wishing it would go away so the preseason proper can get started.
I generally hold the same opinion. Its all just fluff until the real stuff starts, and I hope our AFLX doesnt detract from the main stuff.
Where i think the future of Carlton as a sporting club lies is the european model of operations. Generally, the sporting clubs in europe are sports clubs, and have teams that are represented in multiple sports.
Sure they have some main events, but you will see the same team name, and same colours being represented in all manner of different sports, starting with Basketball, Soccer/Football, Handball, Water Polo, Ping Pong, both mens and womens varieties, and all manner of other sports that escape me at the moment. It gives us good news stories about Carlton, gives us something to enjoy in the meantime until the big stuff starts, and we can celebrate a victory against Collingwood in arm wrestling if thats all thats on tv, but generally I see this as the way forward for sporting clubs.
I generally hold the same opinion. Its all just fluff until the real stuff starts, and I hope our AFLX doesnt detract from the main stuff.
I read the highlighted part as you basically holding a mindset that AFLX is in someway competing with the main game.
I might be wrong but that doesn't seem consistent with MIO's position that AFLW is a different sport he just isn't interested in, have I read MIO post wrongly?
If it's a different game/sport then I would think it's not in competition by definition, if over time the newbies garnish media support that is a problem for the AFL, not for AFLW or AFLX.
I'm not trying to force AFLW or AFLX down peoples throat, people are free to choose. But I believe it's clearly wrong to take a line of argument that compares either game to their AFL predecessor. It would be like comparing chess to chequers, only the board they play on is the same!
In particular my position on this stuff has been turned round by watching the WFA in the UK. It's almost a better game to watch than the Premier League, no fat-heads, no diving, no interruptions for video reviews, no players just there for the money, and yet the WFA game is full of skills and speed! No wonder clubs like Chelsea, Manchester and Liverpool are heavily invested in the WFA.
Where i think the future of Carlton as a sporting club lies is the european model of operations. Generally, the sporting clubs in europe are sports clubs, and have teams that are represented in multiple sports.
Sure they have some main events, but you will see the same team name, and same colours being represented in all manner of different sports, starting with Basketball, Soccer/Football, Handball, Water Polo, Ping Pong, both mens and womens varieties, and all manner of other sports that escape me at the moment. It gives us good news stories about Carlton, gives us something to enjoy in the meantime until the big stuff starts, and we can celebrate a victory against Collingwood in arm wrestling if thats all thats on tv, but generally I see this as the way forward for sporting clubs.
I think this is self evident, it's about using a resource to it's fullest extent.
I actually enjoy the women's competition and I'm looking forward to the start of the season.
Towards the end of last year it became less of a novelty for me and more an extension of the club in a similar manner to the VFL side.
It was very much "Carlton" for me with the same desire for a win as you would experience watching the men's side...but to each his own.
With that in mind for those that are interested... what format do we want to use for the sites "best and fairest competition."
We just did a 3,2,1 last year and it seemed to throw up a well-deserved winner but some expressed the view they'd prefer a system similar to the one we use for the men's competition.
Anyone keen to take it on as a project.
Firstly, I think 3,2,1 is fine. With the girls there is often a clear line between the BoG an the rest, one player having red hot day can win you a game!
On a separate issue, has anyone picked up that there is some innuendo in the media about bad blood between Tayla Harris an the Lions? I noticed that even one of the AFLW captains picked this as the one season game to watch, Tayla playing against her old side. It reminds me of Marc Murphy's debut against the Lions, they told the world they would smash him and they did! :o
I read the highlighted part as you basically holding a mindset that AFLX is in someway competing with the main game.
It's using our senior players so it will be effecting them and I'm hoping it won't be adversely effective on our main season.
I might be wrong but that doesn't seem consistent with MIO's position that AFLW is a different sport he just isn't interested in, have I read MIO post wrongly?
If it's a different game/sport then I would think it's not in competition by definition, if over time the newbies garnish media support that is a problem for the AFL, not for AFLW or AFLX.
I'm not trying to force AFLW or AFLX down peoples throat, people are free to choose. But I believe it's clearly wrong to take a line of argument that compares either game to their AFL predecessor. It would be like comparing chess to chequers, only the board they play on is the same!
In particular my position on this stuff has been turned round by watching the WFA in the UK. It's almost a better game to watch than the Premier League, no fat-heads, no diving, no interruptions for video reviews, no players just there for the money, and yet the WFA game is full of skills and speed! No wonder clubs like Chelsea, Manchester and Liverpool are heavily invested in the WFA.
I think this is self evident, it's about using a resource to it's fullest extent.
Shrug shoulders.
I don't know what you read to end up with this but meh for me the main allure of Carlton is watching our team play afl footy and whilst I'm happy for our women's team and wish them every success it is merely a detail.
It's using our senior players so it will be effecting them and I'm hoping it won't be adversely effective on our main season.
Shrug shoulders.
I don't know what you read to end up with this but meh for me the main allure of Carlton is watching our team play afl footy and whilst I'm happy for our women's team and wish them every success it is merely a detail.
I don't have daughters, but I can understand why some people are so frustrated with the way women in sport are perceived.
I think they deserve every bit of attention they get without the need to judge them relative to men. I do not see them as halftime entertainment or a curtain raiser there just to fill in the blanks. I'm sure you don't mean to infer that they are just a sideshow.
I see the elite in the girls, even if it is a different kind of elite to the men!
I don't have daughters, but I can understand why some people are so frustrated with the way women in sport are perceived.
I think they deserve every bit of attention they get without the need to judge them relative to men. I do not see them as halftime entertainment or a curtain raiser there just to fill in the blanks. I'm sure you don't mean to infer that they are just a sideshow.
I see the elite in the girls, even if it is a different kind of elite to the men!
The problem LP is that most people only have X percent of their time to dedicate to their watching of sports. You get the odd person who watches everything they can, but for most people that isn't a reality.
It is why you wont' find many people who watch the AFL, SANFL, VFL, WAFL etc. It isn't about being a sideshow, but it can be about competing with the quality of the sport. If the best players in the VFL all started playing in another competition it is quite conceivable that people will switch leagues to watch the best players. Not all, but a percentage will for sure, because for a lot of people it is about the quality of the skills on display. The same happens in soccer, with people watching a club like PSG this year, that previously would have paid them little or zero attention. They keep their team they support, but find themselves tuning into the top teams as well.
With me at the moment, I watch the EPL & AFL, I have an interest in the tennis slams, an interest of course in Olympics, a little in the cricket and now with Ben Simmons I am following the NBA more than I have since the 90s. I also have an interest in the men's & women's soccer, but I admit that if the Australian Men were stronger I would pay less attention to the Matildas and openly state that I know far more Australian Men soccer players than I do women of any nationality.
You are right, women do deserve to be more than a sideshow, but with many sports competing for corporate and public dollars, the spectacle must entertaining in it's own right, not 'just as a women's sport'. For some AFLW is absolutely doing that already &
there is a serious chance that more people will watch an AFLW game than any other non-olympic event in women's sports history this year... which is amazing!!! But the level of football does need to get much better, the women need to develop much higher skills and athleticism. It matters not to me that most are not full time professionals, because that is the same for most Olympians who need primary jobs.
To me (in the limited amount I have seen) the ball moves slowly there just isn't the intensity & the sport is not any more exciting than watching a local game between 2 teams I don't know. I also don't get the way that commentators tip toe around the issue of players being not fit enough and overweight. If it was male players in any sport they would call it out and surely that should be the case as well, because the fitter the players the more successful the clubs, the better the spectacle etc.. To make this game successful, I think most of the women have a fair way to go with their fitness. Hopefully the chances will be visible every year, I think they will be.
It is of course possible that women will get to an elite level, but I think it is ignorant to the reality if anyone believes that AFLW skills/fitness are not a LONG way from being where it will be in 5 or so years. In 5 years I am hoping the players and public can come back, watch footage of these games and say, yes they were pioneers, but the level of the game was average. That would then mean that women have taken a huge leap.
Whilst it might not be useful to compare the game to the men's game, there is something to be said to comparing women at the top level of other sports and where they might sit in comparison to the men.
Below are some of how I would compare the top females and where they might sit if playing in men's leagues.
I think the Matildas would beat a lot of male league sides at maybe 2 levels below the A-League, perhaps 3?
The top women tennis players could likely beat players outside perhaps the top 600-700 players in the world
I would think the Australian Women's Basketball team could also be competitive in metropolitan division 1 leagues.
The current level of women's football I don't think would get anywhere near a division 2 league team or any top 6-8 team in a Victorian country league. I think in all honestly they would struggle to finish outside the bottom 4 in most Under 18 competitions.
Now I raise this comparison, because I do believe that it shows that if the women can train to an elite level they should be able to get to the stage where perhaps they could challenge at those levels, their fitness alone would be enough to ensure that they could run a lot of those teams off their feet, as well as their better coaching levels etc. In 5 years, perhaps 10, then women might achieve that level of maturity. If they do.. the spectacle will be much better, the movement of the ball will be much quicker and then I believe they will have a sport quite capable of standing on it's own 2 feet.
Anyway, as I have said... I think that the sport will take off, I think it is great that this could create more pathways for more women to become full time professional athletes, but it is important to make sure they are being assessed correctly, especially internally, because if the sport stays at the level it currently is... I think it might struggle to sustain a full paying public's interest.
On a separate issue, has anyone picked up that there is some innuendo in the media about bad blood between Tayla Harris an the Lions? I noticed that even one of the AFLW captains picked this as the one season game to watch, Tayla playing against her old side. It reminds me of Marc Murphy's debut against the Lions, they told the world they would smash him and they did! :o
I haven't read anything to suggest that, but personally i think it is to be expected. Harris was the Lions marquee player. Plastered all over their merchandise, the face of the club.
Would you be happy if Vescio just up and left?
I actually enjoy the women's competition and I'm looking forward to the start of the season.
Towards the end of last year it became less of a novelty for me and more an extension of the club in a similar manner to the VFL side.
It was very much "Carlton" for me with the same desire for a win as you would experience watching the men's side...but to each his own.
With that in mind for those that are interested... what format do we want to use for the sites "best and fairest competition."
We just did a 3,2,1 last year and it seemed to throw up a well-deserved winner but some expressed the view they'd prefer a system similar to the one we use for the men's competition.
Anyone keen to take it on as a project.
If its just a 3,2,1 its an easy project to take on and i could do it.
If its more convoluted, my interest in it is less enthusiastic.
If its just a 3,2,1 its an easy project to take on and i could do it.
If its more convoluted, my interest in it is less enthusiastic.
I think it might be best to just go with simple the 3,2,1 again.
Keep it simple and easy to manage.
There were probably only about a dozen of us voting last year (less for some games) and it wasn't too difficult to update.
If you don't mind... then it's your baby Kruddler. :D
I think it might be best to just go with simple the 3,2,1 again.
Keep it simple and easy to manage.
There were probably only about a dozen of us voting last year (less for some games) and it wasn't too difficult to update.
If you don't mind... then it's your baby Kruddler. :D
:)
Hopefully I will get to see a few games - no TV at the moment :(
:)
Hopefully I will get to see a few games - no TV at the moment :(
I just don't remember whether that was an issue with us last year in the B&F voting....
Not the no TV at all (hope that gets fixed DJC ;)), but the coverage on free to air TV.
Hard to vote if you don't see the game.
This week's game is on free to air TV, Channel 7, in Victoria for what it is worth. I don't know how many games will be on ANY sort of TV this year, though. I KNOW I will not see all of the games live, although I hope to see more than I did last year.
I am taking my elder daughter on Friday; straight from school to the ground. How we will cope with the parking will be a question, but it often is.
I don't have daughters, but I can understand why some people are so frustrated with the way women in sport are perceived.
I think they deserve every bit of attention they get without the need to judge them relative to men. I do not see them as halftime entertainment or a curtain raiser there just to fill in the blanks. I'm sure you don't mean to infer that they are just a sideshow.
I see the elite in the girls, even if it is a different kind of elite to the men!
Its a different competition to watch that is for sure, and I meant in no way to paint them as a side show.
The main event will always be the main event.
Like MIO my time is divided into the what I can follow and what I can't, and largely that time is dictated by a female which has a tinge of irony to it (my wife).
Occasionally she prevents me from seeing the AFL seniors.
Its a different competition to watch that is for sure, and I meant in no way to paint them as a side show.
The main event will always be the main event.
Like MIO my time is divided into the what I can follow and what I can't, and largely that time is dictated by a female which has a tinge of irony to it (my wife).
Occasionally she prevents me from seeing the AFL seniors.
That's easy fixed. ;)
I think it might be best to just go with simple the 3,2,1 again.
Keep it simple and easy to manage.
There were probably only about a dozen of us voting last year (less for some games) and it wasn't too difficult to update.
If you don't mind... then it's your baby Kruddler. :D
Yep. A handful of 3,2,1's will be easy to update for 7 rounds (+ finals?)
Team for tonight:
CARLTON
B: J.Hosking 11, D.Hardiman 31, L.Brazzale 12
HB: G.Pound 6, A.Downie 30, B.Davey 1
C: S.Audley 26
HF: T.Harris 22, K.Harrington 9, N.Stevens 21
F: M.Gay 8, D.Vescio 3, S.Li 35
Foll: B.Moody 16, S.Hosking 10, K.Loynes 2
I/C: K.Shierlaw 25, L.Arnell 13, G.Gee 19, N.Plane 32, K.Gillespie-Jones 5
Emg: T.Lucas-Rodd 18, S.Last 7
It's good to see so many of our new players debuting. Interesting to see Lucas-Rodd as an emergency, she was more than handy last year. Also seems to have been a bit of a fall from grace for Maddie Keryk, was VC last year and not even in our starting lineup this year. I hope she fights her way back in.
Team for tonight:
It's good to see so many of our new players debuting. Interesting to see Lucas-Rodd as an emergency, she was more than handy last year. Also seems to have been a bit of a fall from grace for Maddie Keryk, was VC last year and not even in our starting lineup this year. I hope she fights her way back in.
I just heard on 774 that around 50 players will debut this round. The flipside is that 50 players from last season will miss out. There was also discussion about players being told to get fitter and lose weight.
I heard Lauren Arnell on the radio last week and she said that the players are much fitter and stronger this season. She said that the first season's experience opened their eyes to the demands of professional sport (perhaps even some from other professional sports) and everyone has worked much harder.
Expect a faster, harder game.
That's easy fixed. ;)
Shes as Navy as I am Kruddler, and actually accompanies me to games, but lets face it, her priorities don't lie in watching footy and sometimes she makes those priorities mine.
Give and take after all!
Shes as Navy as I am Kruddler, and actually accompanies me to games, but lets face it, her priorities don't lie in watching footy and sometimes she makes those priorities mine.
Give and take after all!
A wise course of action Thry ????
Terrible umpiring. Missed about 3 free kicks at the opening bounce then plucked one out for the pies.
Our tackling and pressure is a big reason for the lead at quarter time.
Harris impressive. :D
Harris dominated, going to be a star.
Standard is better than last year.
The Collingwood captain's father posts here but I can't remember who it is?
Standard is better than last year.
The Collingwood captain's father posts here but I can't remember who it is?
No1inParticular :D
Steph Chiocci used to post here too I think.
She's causing us a few problems :(
Hope our girls wrestle back the momentum
Go Blues
Vescio to Harris in the goal square.... Hope we see plenty more of that
Quick score check, 8pts up, back to the cricket.
There's a young lady called Moody playing for the Blues.
Booya.
Nasty business. Pie Darcy reported
Darcy from the Pies reported for kicking.
Those chicks are vicious.
Even though they miss a few, those blue girls tackle with intent.
Bit of a scrappy quarter. Blues hang on by 9
Former skipper Arnell statless!
Anyone that tells me the women’s comp is entertaining and worth watching must be easily entertained. Watched till 3/4 time giving it a go but it’s absolutely crap!
Local Under 14s is a higher standard then this rubbish. Wish more Called it as it is.
Apart from the deplorable skill level the ground is too long for the women.
3/4 time and 5 goals scored in total.
Yep it’s exciting ????
There's a young lady called Moody playing for the Blues.
Booya.
;D
Anyone that tells me the women’s comp is entertaining and worth watching must be easily entertained. Watched till 3/4 time giving it a go but it’s absolutely crap!
Local Under 14s is a higher standard then this rubbish. Wish more Called it as it is.
Apart from the deplorable skill level the ground is too long for the women.
3/4 time and 5 goals scored in total.
Yep it’s exciting ????
I don't mind watching it although the cricket is winning me over more tonight. Scores are low because they only kick a bit over half the distance.
I don't mind watching it ..................
Agree
Tough gig being the full forward in the women's game.
Agree
Come on guys your only watching it for 2 reasons
1) there’s no real footy on
2) they are wearing the CFC jumper
Take one of the above out and no ones watches it. It’s crap.
Moody's q4 is a cracker
Come on guys your only watching it for 2 reasons
1) there’s no real footy on
2) they are wearing the CFC jumper
Take one of the above out and no ones watches it. It’s crap.
3) we get to sing our song!!!
Come on guys your only watching it for 2 reasons
1) there’s no real footy on
2) they are wearing the CFC jumper
Take one of the above out and no ones watches it. It’s crap.
You don't like it but others might.
Our women's team is currently sitting on top of the ladder!
.....and the Pies are on the bottom..lol.
Come on guys your only watching it for 2 reasons
1) there’s no real footy on
2) they are wearing the CFC jumper
Take one of the above out and no ones watches it. It’s crap.
The standard isn't all that high, but it is entertaining. For now, that will have to do.
There's a young lady called Moody playing for the Blues.
Booya.
Daughter of Peter "Black Caviar" Moody
Daughter of Peter "Black Caviar" Moody
I see. Thanks.
Was it just me, or were Collingwood taking every opportunity to niggle, push, drop the knees in and even kick?
Just go for the ball girls.
I reckon the standard is up a notch from last season.
There doesn't seem to be that gap between the best and average.
Still too many skill errors (easy dropped marks) but the tackling and pressure was quite good.
I reckon the standard is up a notch from last season.
There doesn't seem to be that gap between the best and average.
Still too many skill errors (easy dropped marks) but the tackling and pressure was quite good.
Agree Lods.
Yep, spot on.
Both teams looked pretty nervous... see how the skills settle down next week.
Was it just me, or were Collingwood taking every opportunity to niggle, push, drop the knees in and even kick?
Just go for the ball girls.
Kicking was definitely just them, but there was niggle from both sides.
I thought the pies got into Stevens early, which was to be expected since she won Collingwoods B+F last year.
I reckon every time there was a questionable push or sling tackle etc, our girls flew the flag accordingly.
Downie purposely went and bumped about 6 pies after she was pushed over the boundary line.
BTW guys and gals, don't forget to put your votes in for tonights game...
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=3804.0
Skills 2 out of 10.
Spectacle: 4 out of 10.
They tackle hard but any form of rational system seems non existent....
Harris clearly a great mark but then spays it from 15 out! Levi...?
Skills 2 out of 10.
Spectacle: 4 out of 10.
They tackle hard but any form of rational system seems non existent....
Harris clearly a great mark but then spays it from 15 out! Levi...?
Only to the untrained eye my friend.
There was a reason the pies had a lot more uncontested ball than us. We set up defensive structures well and forced them to go backwards and wide to find a teammate.
We basically setup a ring about 25m around the mark and forced them backwards.
Forward structure is still a work in progress, but you'd expect that first game out with a new setup.
i waS REFERRING TO WHAT wE DID WITH THE PILL ONCE WE WON IT. SFA.
No matter, i'll be reading a book next time they play!
Wow what a game... ::) felt like I was watching an under 10's game
Wow what a game... ::) felt like I was watching an under 10's game
Cool story champ ::)
So unfortunately this was in my opinion a pretty horrible spectacle. None of the athletes out there tonight looked elite and none showed a great deal of skill (in the 1/2 I ended up watching). Now that is to be expected in a way.. The game is still in it's infancy, the participation numbers are through the roof at the moment and in a few years time the girls entering the AFLW will have been playing the game competitively for a number of years, but... how does the game come close to financially supporting itself in the near future?
If the games are played in the Summer and the season is 7 weeks long, how are the players ever going to generate the income to become professionals? If the season grows to 20 weeks... What sort of TV rights will get done and as it would likely cross over into the Men's season... How many people are going to end up paying even $15 a game to go and watch it? 1000? 5000? 10000? Will people start watching 2 games on a weekend? Will many drop the men's game to watch the women's? Both would seem a little unlikely, is bringing back double headers that go? I think that could work, but I don't think the AFL really want that.
Fremantle has sold I think 40,000 tickets for an upcoming game at $2 a pop, but how many will pay $10+ ?
The problems is that the skills were far more deplorable that I remember, despite talk by some they have greatly improved.. it felt like you were watching players who didn't really grow up playing the game. The lack of composure with the ball, of hitting targets, it really was unfortunately poor and not a lot of people are going to spend their hard earned to watch it at the moment (imo). The comments about U/15 competition is harsh, but is it in fact wrong? You see kids at that level now and most can kick 40-50 meters comfortably, have been playing for a number of years and they can move the ball and kick scores. I said the AFLW would struggle to beat a lot of U/18 sides... I do now think they would struggle to beat most good U/16 sides
I am all for propping the competition up in this short to medium term, but don't the girls need to start training (as much as it is possible) like the men? I know the game is not native to a lot of the girls who have embraced the sport and joined this competition, but you look at how the Irish players convert and we have the blueprint for what we need to get the girls skills up and that includes training 44 weeks a year as well. There is no physical reason why the girls can't put on muscle, why they can't become elite athletes and why they can't kick at least 40m accurately with the right amount of exposure and training.
It is a big ask, but I compare it to Olympic hopefuls and most are doing that with little financial reward and if the women can become elite, then there is potentially a huge payday ahead for them. The women of today need to take this opportunity and invest every part of themselves so that they set the competition up to be sustainable. Otherwise it is in danger of losing it's momentum
Many many hurdles still ahead
The ladies aren't full time, professional athletes. They have careers, and play part time, like the blokes used to back in the day. It's a new sport, new competition, 1st week in, it's a short season for them, they don't have much time to train, prepare etc.
One must temper expectations to a degree.
We know that the skills can be better than last night, we have seen better games than that before. To question the entire concept based on last night’s game is ridiculous.
I spent a couple of hours at the emergency vet with a dog with a swollen mouth and just got to see the girls sing the song - twice!
Oh, and I saw a replay of the kick to the nurries ???? She'll get suspended for the season for that effort.
Nix, my dog, made a full recovery ????
Skills 2 out of 10.
Spectacle: 4 out of 10.
They tackle hard but any form of rational system seems non existent....
Harris clearly a great mark but then spays it from 15 out! Levi...?
100% agree.....nice to get some honest opinions. Skills are awful. Cant kick longer then 30 metres. Ground too long. Rather watch under 14s
I think our opinions are largely based on our expectations.
You can't look at it in terms of a comparison to an elite men's game.
If you do you it will be a long time in meeting your expectations.
It is what it is...a concept in it's infancy, and the only expectations should be that it improves from year to year. Strength, fitness and skills should all improve as the competition evolves.
We all question the skill level currently on display but we need to realise that the players skills are being tested under a pressure that they haven't been accustomed to.
If we were to watch them at training the skills would probably be streets ahead of what we see under match conditions.
The "skills under pressure" will improve with the more games they play at that elite women's level.
How many AFL players look the goods after less than a dozen games at the top level?
That's what we're dealing with.
Let's see how they're going after 50+ matches
I enjoy it.
Probably as much as a Northern Blues match.
I was genuinely anxious in that last quarter last night, hoping we'd be able to hang on.
The ladies aren't full time, professional athletes. They have careers, and play part time, like the blokes used to back in the day. It's a new sport, new competition, 1st week in, it's a short season for them, they don't have much time to train, prepare etc.
One must temper expectations to a degree.
Neither are most Olympic athletes, unfortunately in the women's sports.
Those excuses are all reasonable and make sense, but at the rate of improvement, they won't be quality for 10 years and very few people will be watching then.
I think they need to work around those excuses. It is harder than for men because they have other jobs, but so did most men even well into the 90s.
Highlighting the areas that need to improve and the reality of how much they need to improve is part of the solution.
Draft players and ensure they meet skinfold tests, put training on at the clubs for them year round. If someone says they can't commit.. then draft someone who can.
It should take less than one season of training to be more than good enough to play this game at that level, so you get the players prepared to do that.
Preseason for local football now starts in January for most clubs and they are not getting paid either.
The question is, does the game just continue along with the type of spectacle like last night or does it want to be taken seriously as a sport that attracts sponsors, supporters and the cash flow to allow the girls to play as full time professionals. Remember the men earned the right to professionalism, it wasn't just handed to them.
If the girls want to grow they can't hide behind the excuse (and I am not saying that they are, but others making these excuses for them) that they are not professional and have other jobs etc. They want to be up on the big stage in front of 20,000 paying spectators and televises on national tv then they need to make the SACRIFICE.
Could you imagine the havoc one girl with the ability to be a top player in any U/18 competition could do out there? Just 1?
They would pick up 40 touches and rip it up.
I don't agree with glossing over real issues if you want to succeed. That game last night would have won over very few people and would have lost a number of people that were 'taking a look'.
It does not help with the abysmal commentary team (was it Nicole Livingstone?), which was as bad as any I have ever heard.
It comes back to a simple question. Do the women want to have a professional football league?
If the answer is yes, they need to treat that the same way someone would treat the goal of making the Olympic team and throw everything into it.
Jim, I believe you train Olympic level or those attempting to be Olympic level walkers, How many are paid professional? And how many non professionals come in overweight for a professional athlete?.. I don't know what is required to be an Olympic walkers I am guessing, but I do know those hoping to make the Swimming teams are making HUGE sacrifices with hours of training each day and restricting their diets, with no guarantee of making it.
All of what I have said sounds critical and it is, but pretending that was a good game to watch to me is far worse than pointing out how much they need to improve.
I understand Lods, but these girls are earning a lot more than most local league players are earning for a season and the fitness and skill levels really are poor for even under age football.
And that has to be a concern that the AFLW players should be addressing.
If it just trickles along, the general interest might just dry up
They need to modify the rules to avoid congestion and open the game up. They play crowded, pressure football around the ball but don’t have the skills or strength to break it open. They do everything under pressure. Give them time and space and you ‘might’ see some improvement.
Terrible umpiring. Missed about 3 free kicks at the opening bounce then plucked one out for the pies.
There were 17 free kicks given in the first quarter. Most of them were very tiggy touch-wood stuff. Three very obvious in the back free kicks (all to us) were ignored, including one that started the first 'confrontation' of the night.
I don't think there were 17 free in the last 3 quarters combined.
I'd say that the umpires were a tad rusty, to be generous.
Our tackling and pressure is a big reason for the lead at quarter time.
Harris impressive. :D
Over the whole night, the pressure put on by our mids and defenders especially was fantastic. Good chasing and excellent intensity. That sort of fanaticism could take us a long way.
There's a young lady called Moody playing for the Blues.
Booya.
Breann Moody had a good night. She is tall and has a great jump and a lot of aggression.
Former skipper Arnell statless!
Lauren didn't have a huge amount of game time, but he didn't have a kick or a handball for the night (2 tackles). I don't know if she has had injuries, but her influence in the midfield was sorely missed.
Alas, I think her time as a star may be over. She does provide a LOT of other stuff, but she was averaging about 14 possessions last year. And she usually hits her targets.
Was it just me, or were Collingwood taking every opportunity to niggle, push, drop the knees in and even kick?
Just go for the ball girls.
They did play VERY physically. I am surprised that they were not penalized for it, to be honest. I think it was a deliberate ploy to put us off our game. I don't think it worked, to be honest. Our girls were concentrating more on the ball.
Neither are most Olympic athletes, unfortunately in the women's sports.
Those excuses are all reasonable and make sense, but at the rate of improvement, they won't be quality for 10 years and very few people will be watching then.
I think they need to work around those excuses. It is harder than for men because they have other jobs, but so did most men even well into the 90s.
Highlighting the areas that need to improve and the reality of how much they need to improve is part of the solution.
Draft players and ensure they meet skinfold tests, put training on at the clubs for them year round. If someone says they can't commit.. then draft someone who can.
It should take less than one season of training to be more than good enough to play this game at that level, so you get the players prepared to do that.
Preseason for local football now starts in January for most clubs and they are not getting paid either.
The question is, does the game just continue along with the type of spectacle like last night or does it want to be taken seriously as a sport that attracts sponsors, supporters and the cash flow to allow the girls to play as full time professionals. Remember the men earned the right to professionalism, it wasn't just handed to them.
If the girls want to grow they can't hide behind the excuse (and I am not saying that they are, but others making these excuses for them) that they are not professional and have other jobs etc. They want to be up on the big stage in front of 20,000 paying spectators and televises on national tv then they need to make the SACRIFICE.
Could you imagine the havoc one girl with the ability to be a top player in any U/18 competition could do out there? Just 1?
They would pick up 40 touches and rip it up.
I don't agree with glossing over real issues if you want to succeed. That game last night would have won over very few people and would have lost a number of people that were 'taking a look'.
It does not help with the abysmal commentary team (was it Nicole Livingstone?), which was as bad as any I have ever heard.
It comes back to a simple question. Do the women want to have a professional football league?
If the answer is yes, they need to treat that the same way someone would treat the goal of making the Olympic team and throw everything into it.
Jim, I believe you train Olympic level or those attempting to be Olympic level walkers, How many are paid professional? And how many non professionals come in overweight for a professional athlete?.. I don't know what is required to be an Olympic walkers I am guessing, but I do know those hoping to make the Swimming teams are making HUGE sacrifices with hours of training each day and restricting their diets, with no guarantee of making it.
All of what I have said sounds critical and it is, but pretending that was a good game to watch to me is far worse than pointing out how much they need to improve.
It's early days MIO. I don't think it's dire straits at this point. I find the game entertaining, for whatever reason. If I had a dollar for every AFL men's game that I've switched off because I was bored witless, I would be a very wealthy man.
Neither are most Olympic athletes, unfortunately in the women's sports.
Those excuses are all reasonable and make sense, but at the rate of improvement, they won't be quality for 10 years and very few people will be watching then.
I think they need to work around those excuses. It is harder than for men because they have other jobs, but so did most men even well into the 90s.
Highlighting the areas that need to improve and the reality of how much they need to improve is part of the solution.
Draft players and ensure they meet skinfold tests, put training on at the clubs for them year round. If someone says they can't commit.. then draft someone who can.
It should take less than one season of training to be more than good enough to play this game at that level, so you get the players prepared to do that.
Preseason for local football now starts in January for most clubs and they are not getting paid either.
The question is, does the game just continue along with the type of spectacle like last night or does it want to be taken seriously as a sport that attracts sponsors, supporters and the cash flow to allow the girls to play as full time professionals. Remember the men earned the right to professionalism, it wasn't just handed to them.
If the girls want to grow they can't hide behind the excuse (and I am not saying that they are, but others making these excuses for them) that they are not professional and have other jobs etc. They want to be up on the big stage in front of 20,000 paying spectators and televises on national tv then they need to make the SACRIFICE.
Could you imagine the havoc one girl with the ability to be a top player in any U/18 competition could do out there? Just 1?
They would pick up 40 touches and rip it up.
I don't agree with glossing over real issues if you want to succeed. That game last night would have won over very few people and would have lost a number of people that were 'taking a look'.
It does not help with the abysmal commentary team (was it Nicole Livingstone?), which was as bad as any I have ever heard.
It comes back to a simple question. Do the women want to have a professional football league?
If the answer is yes, they need to treat that the same way someone would treat the goal of making the Olympic team and throw everything into it.
Jim, I believe you train Olympic level or those attempting to be Olympic level walkers, How many are paid professional? And how many non professionals come in overweight for a professional athlete?.. I don't know what is required to be an Olympic walkers I am guessing, but I do know those hoping to make the Swimming teams are making HUGE sacrifices with hours of training each day and restricting their diets, with no guarantee of making it.
All of what I have said sounds critical and it is, but pretending that was a good game to watch to me is far worse than pointing out how much they need to improve.
All of your comments seem to be in regards to athletes who have played and trained most of their lives to get to the pinnacle of their sport. Absolutely ZERO of these girls have done that, because there was no pinnacle of their sport. They were lucky to even have a sport to play. Some of them could only play with the boys until 13 or so and for a lot of them there was nowhere to go after that.
Don't judge the football now. Judge it in 10 years when the young girls of today have been able to train all their developed lives for this opportunity.
No elite athletes? Pretty sure plenty of them were elite...in other sports. Downie played 232 WNBL games in a past life. There are others who played basketball, netball...we even have a javelin thrower in our team. Its a mixed bag and a melting pot.
re weight etc..
Have a look at Mo Hope from collingwood a year ago, and have a look at her last night. if she wasn't so unique with her look, you'd barely recognise her.
Sarah Perkins from Adelaide lost 40kg to make the cut.
There will be more girls doing similar the longer the competition is in existence.
re commentators...did you watch on fox or FTA?
Fox commentators were good, basically the VFL commentators with a AFLW player throw in.
Kruddler
If you take the swimming example I am talking about 16-18 year old girls that looked much fitter than a lot of players out there last night, volleyball.. same thing. In the case of volleyball these are girls (and boys) growing up playing a sport without any huge following in Australia and they have made sacrifices even as teens to get up early and train, to train late a night, to miss out on a lot of normal teen activities in the pursuit of their sport.
The sport has to have a reasonable skill level Kruddler regardless of how long they have been around and I was addressing the fact the players are not full time and stating neither are most Olympic athletes, yet they do everything they possibly can to sacrifice to make that top.
There is a top of the heap in AFLW now and that is great, so there is every reason for players to make all the right decisions. Are you in fact trying to imply that most of the players out there had what would be considered an athletes physique? I mean it has been pretty well 2 years from conception until now, so that is a LOT of time to train. You can see amazing transformations in even 1 year.. So.. were those players last night in 'peak' fitness? If you think so, then we have wildly different expectations of peak fitness.
I watched on the net it was I think Nicole Livingstone and she literally could hardly commentate it was embarrassing. I love Nicole, she was a sensational Australian athlete and always interviewed well as a swimmer, but if that was her last night.. she sounded almost panicked when asked questions. Literally no idea.
If you don't think there are issues about last night and the skill level that need addressing, all power to you. To me.. I think it is a long way from the quality required and from what I seen last night, probably the only 2 players that looked like footballers where the Chiocci and that Molloy girl.
The expectations when you want to get paid and you want to play in front of big crowds and also be nationally televised are wildly different to the expectations playing Saturday afternoon football, whether male or female.
If you were a broadcaster, how much would you pay for the rights to the women's game right now? Knowing you had to sustain the the interest over a number of years to get the sponsors to advertise etc... How much would you pay?
For someone to invest now (other than the AFL) there needs to be payback now. A broadcaster isn't going to sign on for 3-5 years not knowing if anyone will be watching it then.
So either the product is progressing nicely and it will just naturally eventually get there, or the the ladies/girls that are playing the game need to take it upon themselves to improve their skills/fitness and provide a game we can't turn off. I personally think the 1st is a bit head in the sand and nowhere near the approach required.
Surely the girls need to be able to perform the fundamental skills at a high level
I took my daughter to yesterday's game and got there just before the gates opened. As a result, we got good seats on the wing, where we used to sit for so many years. There were a few differences. Last year there were a lot more neutral supporters. This time the crowd was not as 'friendly', there was a lot more real partisan supporters. Probably about 54% women in the crowd.
Things were much better organized this year. There was a lot learnt from last year, although a bit of paint on the seats would not have been astray.
Our ground has aged, alas.
[1] Skills:
A number of posters have commented about the skill, or lack thereof, in the game. To be honest, I was not surprised, but I was a little disappointed. The skill level shows where the game is at, at this point. In 3 – 5 years, the skill level will be MUCH better.
At the moment, a code jumper with athleticism can make the transition pretty easily. That will not be the case in 2022.
In the 1st quarter the skills were probably effected somewhat y nervousness and the perceived pressure. By the 2nd quarter, the skill level probably reached its peak for the game. Later in the game the intense pressure and fatigue caught up with the players and there were a lot of fumbles.
However:
(a) I was very disappointed in our handball. Over 50% did not hit the target and almost all of them bounced before getting there. That was probably the worst aspect of the game for me, as we continually broke down when we had the advantage.
Tayla Harris was one of the worst offenders. Not one of her handballs ended up to our advantage.
(b) Being a forward in this game is hard work, as the kicks are often not to advantage. Darcy Vescio was an example: each time she lead the ball gave her less than 50% chance of getting the ball. The really good teams with the best midfields give their forwards much better service than ours had.
[2] Game plan:
I don’t think our game plan is going to win us a premiership this year.
Thank may sound a bit harsh after a single game in which we have won. But it looked very similar to last year’s and Collingwood’s coaching staff were ready with counters for our better players.
(a) Our forward line was always outnumbered. Often there were 5 Magpies for 3 Carlton forwards and, particularly Darcy Vescio, had no room to use her magic. (She is also probably underdone after her knee injury, but that is another tale.) Darcy would tap the ball past 2 girls, to be intercepted by a 3rd.
(b) Collingwood broke across the ground and tried to change direction with free players. Not once did we wake up to that move, which allowed the Pies to move the ball out of our defence a lot quicker than it should have. We did not such thing, relying on our greater aerial ability to win the ball.
(c) The Pies appeared to have specific plans for our better players. They did not work totally, but they did shut down a considerable portion of our drive. They had a plan of playing multiple players around Darcy Vescio. They didn’t allow Breanna Davey any room at all. They often double teamed Tayla Harris. They managed to keep Lauren Arnell totally out of the game. We did not appear to have the same specific plans, although our defence was excellent at strangling their forward moves.
[3] List:
(a) Mids:
After last year’s season I wanted us to get more mids. Especially with a bit of strength and speed. Last night showed that we had not addressed that at all. Our mids did an excellent defensive job (our midfield laid a huge number of tackles), but not once did we get a clear break from the centre. In fact, Collingwood probably won the centre clearances. The Hosking girls were strong and hard, but they didn’t break out of the centre.
(b) Small Forwards:
We were also deficient in small forwards last year, although a couple showed glimpses. It was similar last night. Georgie Gee showed some excellent pace and made crucial tackles that gave us the ball in the forward line, but she couldn’t kick 40 m and didn’t get a goal.
(c) Rucks:
Our rucks are a good unit. Alison Downie was beaten last night by a bigger, stronger girl, but she is a class act and has more variety in her play. She isn’t getting any younger though.
Breann Moody, on the other hand, came on about half way through each quarter and dominated. He aggressive, face on attack on the ball allowed her to win maybe 90% of the taps she contested (she didn’t try for a few in the last quarter that surprised me). She knocks the ball exclusively forward, where Downie directs her taps better. Shierlaw and Gillespie-Jones also did some ruck work and it did give us options.
(d) Tall Forwards:
Tayla Harris was a revelation. We did not use her all that well and her handballs were terrible, but her ability to shatter a pack, which allowed 3 marks within 15 m of goal other than just hers, was excellent. He kicking was generally very good, all except a true shank from 15 m, when she didn’t kick through the ball.
It took pressure off Darcy Vescio, as well.
It was hard to see a forward structure, as we did not move the ball down quickly or efficiently.
Over all, our defence is excellent. Our rucks are one of the best combos in the game. We have a forward option or 2. But the weaknesses from 2017 are still there. We really need top class midfielders if we are to make real progress.
Kruddler
If you take the swimming example I am talking about 16-18 year old girls that looked much fitter than a lot of players out there last night, volleyball.. same thing. In the case of volleyball these are girls (and boys) growing up playing a sport without any huge following in Australia and they have made sacrifices even as teens to get up early and train, to train late a night, to miss out on a lot of normal teen activities in the pursuit of their sport.
The sport has to have a reasonable skill level Kruddler regardless of how long they have been around and I was addressing the fact the players are not full time and stating neither are most Olympic athletes, yet they do everything they possibly can to sacrifice to make that top.
There is a top of the heap in AFLW now and that is great, so there is every reason for players to make all the right decisions. Are you in fact trying to imply that most of the players out there had what would be considered an athletes physique? I mean it has been pretty well 2 years from conception until now, so that is a LOT of time to train. You can see amazing transformations in even 1 year.. So.. were those players last night in 'peak' fitness? If you think so, then we have wildly different expectations of peak fitness.
I watched on the net it was I think Nicole Livingstone and she literally could hardly commentate it was embarrassing. I love Nicole, she was a sensational Australian athlete and always interviewed well as a swimmer, but if that was her last night.. she sounded almost panicked when asked questions. Literally no idea.
If you don't think there are issues about last night and the skill level that need addressing, all power to you. To me.. I think it is a long way from the quality required and from what I seen last night, probably the only 2 players that looked like footballers where the Chiocci and that Molloy girl.
The expectations when you want to get paid and you want to play in front of big crowds and also be nationally televised are wildly different to the expectations playing Saturday afternoon football, whether male or female.
If you were a broadcaster, how much would you pay for the rights to the women's game right now? Knowing you had to sustain the the interest over a number of years to get the sponsors to advertise etc... How much would you pay?
For someone to invest now (other than the AFL) there needs to be payback now. A broadcaster isn't going to sign on for 3-5 years not knowing if anyone will be watching it then.
So either the product is progressing nicely and it will just naturally eventually get there, or the the ladies/girls that are playing the game need to take it upon themselves to improve their skills/fitness and provide a game we can't turn off. I personally think the 1st is a bit head in the sand and nowhere near the approach required.
Surely the girls need to be able to perform the fundamental skills at a high level
Let me put it to you this way...
NBA. Elite athletes, skills the best in the world. Games? Generally boring as bat $h!t to me. Half the games have the result sorted halfway through the game. The other half generally come down to the last 5 minutes making the rest of the game irrelevant up to that point. 82 games each for the regular season. A win (or loss) on any given night means SFA in the scheme of things. Generally little emotion attached.
AFLW....not elite athletes, skills needing work. Games? Hard fought contests that could go either way more often than not due to the low scoring involved.
Only 7 games a year, so every game is precious. Emotion involved from the players is greater than you see in AFL.
Yes, skills do need some work, but i'm not watching games to see elite skills. I'm watching the games to see these girls give there all to get a win. NOT for the money, for the pure love of the game.
You want to talk elite athletes and body shapes/sizes.
I'll give you 2 names and let you fill in the blanks.
Greg Williams
Tony Lockett
Don't forget that some of these girls had never even played a game of football until they donned their AFLW jumpers.
A 2 second search showed me that there are former athletes from far and wide playing AFLW today.
Basketball, Hockey, Netball, Athletics, Volleyball, Beach volleyball, Soccer...and i'm sure there are many more i'm missing too.
Another one for ya, what is bigger in america? NFL or college football?? Which one has the better athletes? Perhaps the emotions involved play a bigger part in the game than just seeing the best of the best?
Is the minumum kick length still 15m for a mark to be awarded?
i saw a few kicks that would have gone 5-10m and a mark was awarded.
As for Gee, gosh a good little runner but ran at an open goal but the kick barely went 12m!
Is the minumum kick length still 15m for a mark to be awarded?
i saw a few kicks that would have gone 5-10m and a mark was awarded.
As for Gee, gosh a good little runner but ran at an open goal but the kick barely went 12m!
Her playing weight is probably about 45kg....if that. Not sure how much penetration in your kicking you'll get with that.
She is only 18.
Her playing weight is probably about 45kg....if that. Not sure how much penetration in your kicking you'll get with that.
She is only 18.
Good points.
Her playing weight is probably about 45kg....if that. Not sure how much penetration in your kicking you'll get with that.
She is only 18.
utter carp Kruddler.
12yo boys weighing a lot less than 40kg can kick 40m comfortably with the right technique....
So far I have only seen the club song being sung with gusto and very brief highlights but I have listened to the dissection of the game by both the Outer Sanctum and Grandstand crews. They made some interesting observations:
The last touch rule has produced a counter-intuitive outcome with most play taking place in the corridor and increasing congestion and stifling scoring. Fancy the AFL getting a rule change wrong ;)
The lights at Princes Park shine directly into the players' eyes and aren't conducive to clean marking.
There is a huge difference in skill level between the veterans (like Mo Hope) who are late starters and many of the 20 year olds who have grown up playing footy.
The pathways to footy are significantly different for males and females and the standard of AFLW will remain lower until the pathways converge.
Inside 50s are irrelevant in AFLW. Inside 30s are critical.
Many of the players have lost significant weight and, consequently, the ability to out body opponents.
And my favourite ... Sarah Hosking's comment "I'm glad I'm not a boy!" after D'Arcy kicked her in the groin :)
Firstly.
I'm not buying into the naysayers and those philosophically opposed to females playing football. They should start a sky is falling thread elsewhere!
The Game
Counter-intuitively, the massive increase in player fitness and strength has had the opposite effect of what many expected. The game was generally congested because of the tactical focus on tagging. Players like Vescio, Chiocci, Stevens, Davey and Harris no longer have a natural advantage over the rest. You won't see them easily breaking lines like they did last season.
I wasn't expecting the negative tactics from the coaches, I was expecting AFLW to be more attacking. The focus on tagging and defensive structures is all new for the girls, they applied it very well perhaps even better than the men. But the newness of this in their game means the attacking players are yet to sort out how to deal with it. So at least short term we are likely to see less dominance by the likes of Vescio, Pearce, Harris, Brennan, Phillips, etc., etc..
Pound for pound the girls attack the contest and each other as hard if not harder than the men.
I think the AFLW Executive would be a bit worried about the aggression and vindictiveness on show, too much of it and the game becomes intimidating for many girls. The soccer mums(ie. The FA) would see that as a win.
Don't get between the Lioness and her Cub, or in the AFLW case the footy or a team-mate!
I thought the two best players on the ground were both Collingwood, Chiocci and Molloy. But it was clear our defensive structures kept the Pies outside a comfortable scoring zone.
Shorter kicking, 25m to 30m, the girls are as good as the guys hitting targets by foot, judging them as deficient when they miss a 40m target is like judging the guys at 60m!
Handball is still a problem, the lack of power is causing some congestion because handball range is diminished. But see my question about the ball below.
I don't buy into the new rules making the AFLW game congested and corridor centric, the real cause of that is the coaching tactics and the increase aerobic capacity and strength of the weaker players who were previously just chook runners. Some of the body transformations in one pre-season are astounding, there were no unfit players out there.
Keep in mind these girls only assembled for pre-season in November, hardly full-time professionals yet!
Having said that, the new rule will have no effect on play if the umpires are unable to divorce themselves from bringing players back directly over the mark. In any case teams have already learned not to chase the footy so the delay in getting the pill to the nearest player negates that rule. At best it needs tweaking at worst it's not effective.
It may be because of the significant changes in body shape, but it appeared to me the girls were now using the full sized footy. Last year they used the smaller size footy, can anyone confirm the situation for the current season?
Looking at the two teams last night, our list management versus the Pies, I'm not sure we can sustain that game style and make an impact on the finals. The Pies were significantly bigger in build and height, we've gone the diverse mosquito fleet route. That is not a detraction from the play of the smaller girls who often took down larger opponents.
Maddison Gay will be the AFLW best player within a season or two. She moves and thinks like her male counterparts, as team-mates improve she will become an attacking weapon.
I'm a bit concerned about Lauren Arnell and her future, I can see why she stood aside from the captaincy. It's clear the average AFLW player is now faster and stronger, Lauren no longer has the leg speed to keep up and her strength and aggression are no longer an advantage. I hope she can prove me wrong.
Overall I'm very happy with the progress the girls have made, if the guys showed this sort of improvement we'd be on a 3 year rebuild not a 20 year hiatus!
utter carp Kruddler.
12yo boys weighing a lot less than 40kg can kick 40m comfortably with the right technique....
Those particular boys you're talking about would have as much or even more muscle definition and strength than the 18yo female. It's 's not always about weight. Female's will only kick it 60% of their male counterparts hence if they're playing on a full size ground scores will be very low. juts have to take that into account. Like female cricketers, female footballers need to play on a smaller ground if you want higher scores.
As DJC says, inside 50 is a useless stat for females, inside 25 or 30 is critical.
Those particular boys you're talking about would have as much or even more muscle definition and strength than the 18yo female. It's 's not always about weight. Female's will only kick it 60% of their male counterparts hence if they're playing on a full size ground scores will be very low. juts have to take that into account. Like female cricketers, female footballers need to play on a smaller ground if you want higher scores.
As DJC says, inside 50 is a useless stat for females, inside 25 or 30 is critical.
Comparing females to 14 or 15 year old boys is pointless. Lance Whitnall, Bryce Gibbs and Watson Snr were playing senior football at 15.
I think the girls need to look at Tayla Harris' kicking technique, I think it's better suited to female anatomy. I've seen something similar in martial arts, girls are far more effective at roundhouse kicks than direct kicks. Perhaps it's something to do with their hip and pelvis structure. But for this to be effective in play coaches have to change some tactics, the targets will need to be more lateral.
Neither are most Olympic athletes, unfortunately in the women's sports.
Those excuses are all reasonable and make sense, but at the rate of improvement, they won't be quality for 10 years and very few people will be watching then.
I think they need to work around those excuses. It is harder than for men because they have other jobs, but so did most men even well into the 90s.
Highlighting the areas that need to improve and the reality of how much they need to improve is part of the solution.
Draft players and ensure they meet skinfold tests, put training on at the clubs for them year round. If someone says they can't commit.. then draft someone who can.
It should take less than one season of training to be more than good enough to play this game at that level, so you get the players prepared to do that.
Preseason for local football now starts in January for most clubs and they are not getting paid either.
The question is, does the game just continue along with the type of spectacle like last night or does it want to be taken seriously as a sport that attracts sponsors, supporters and the cash flow to allow the girls to play as full time professionals. Remember the men earned the right to professionalism, it wasn't just handed to them.
If the girls want to grow they can't hide behind the excuse (and I am not saying that they are, but others making these excuses for them) that they are not professional and have other jobs etc. They want to be up on the big stage in front of 20,000 paying spectators and televises on national tv then they need to make the SACRIFICE.
Could you imagine the havoc one girl with the ability to be a top player in any U/18 competition could do out there? Just 1?
They would pick up 40 touches and rip it up.
I don't agree with glossing over real issues if you want to succeed. That game last night would have won over very few people and would have lost a number of people that were 'taking a look'.
It does not help with the abysmal commentary team (was it Nicole Livingstone?), which was as bad as any I have ever heard.
It comes back to a simple question. Do the women want to have a professional football league?
If the answer is yes, they need to treat that the same way someone would treat the goal of making the Olympic team and throw everything into it.
Jim, I believe you train Olympic level or those attempting to be Olympic level walkers, How many are paid professional? And how many non professionals come in overweight for a professional athlete?.. I don't know what is required to be an Olympic walkers I am guessing, but I do know those hoping to make the Swimming teams are making HUGE sacrifices with hours of training each day and restricting their diets, with no guarantee of making it.
All of what I have said sounds critical and it is, but pretending that was a good game to watch to me is far worse than pointing out how much they need to improve.
Some are funded and sponsored and, bar Jared and Dane, nowhere to the point of the glamour athletes, other's have to do the hard yards. What's required to make an Olympic level racewalker is similar to an Olympic distance runner. Jared does 160-190k a week. It was better when we had the AIS where we had near all out elite walkers. They could train full time, do their studies as well as part time work at the AIS. There's funding but it's a bit tougher now. Not so bad if you're at university but damn hard if you work full time. Some might work part time together with their funding, a couple are married so they can train while their partner works. Even then you now pay for your own treatments. So, as you can see it's not as easy anymore. We won't be a world powerhouse in our sport that we were when the AIS was the main residential centre giving full support. Showing signs of decline now.
Hope that helps with your question.
Comparing females to 14 or 15 year old boys is pointless. Lance Whitnall, Bryce Gibbs and Watson Snr were playing senior football at 15.
I think the girls need to look at Tayla Harris' kicking technique, I think it's better suited to female anatomy. I've seen something similar in martial arts, girls are far more effective at roundhouse kicks than direct kicks. Perhaps it's something to do with their hip and pelvis structure. But for this to be effective in play coaches have to change some tactics, the targets will need to be more lateral.
You're right. I was only saying it to make a point of comparison.
I just look at Tayla Harris full stop...lol.
I just look at Tayla Harris full stop...lol.
See, that was unnecessary.
See, that was unnecessary.
Lol...not for my eyes, totally necessary.
Lol...not for my eyes, totally necessary.
Someone get the defib to jimbos house ASAP!
Firstly.
I'm not buying into the naysayers and those philosophically opposed to females playing football. They should start a sky is falling thread elsewhere!
The Game
Counter-intuitively, the massive increase in player fitness and strength has had the opposite effect of what many expected. The game was generally congested because of the tactical focus on tagging. Players like Vescio, Chiocci, Stevens, Davey and Harris no longer have a natural advantage over the rest. You won't see them easily breaking lines like they did last season.
I wasn't expecting the negative tactics from the coaches, I was expecting AFLW to be more attacking. The focus on tagging and defensive structures is all new for the girls, they applied it very well perhaps even better than the men. But the newness of this in their game means the attacking players are yet to sort out how to deal with it. So at least short term we are likely to see less dominance by the likes of Vescio, Pearce, Harris, Brennan, Phillips, etc., etc..
Pound for pound the girls attack the contest and each other as hard if not harder than the men.
I think the AFLW Executive would be a bit worried about the aggression and vindictiveness on show, too much of it and the game becomes intimidating for many girls. The soccer mums(ie. The FA) would see that as a win.
Don't get between the Lioness and her Cub, or in the AFLW case the footy or a team-mate!
I though the two best players on the ground were both Collingwood, Chiocci and Molloy. But it was clear our defensive structures kept the Pies outside a comfortable scoring zone.
Shorter kicking, 25m to 30m, the girls are as good as the guys hitting targets by foot, judging them as deficient when they miss a 40m target is like judging the guys at 60m!
Handball is still a problem, the lack of power is causing some congestion because handball range is diminished. But see my question about the ball below.
I don't buy into the new rules making the AFLW game congested and corridor centric, the real cause of that is the coaching tactics and the increase aerobic capacity and strength of the weaker players who were previously just chook runners. Some of the body transformations in one pre-season are astounding, there were no unfit players out there.
Keep in mind these girls only assembled for pre-season in November, hardly full-time professionals yet!
Having said that, the new rule will have no effect on play if the umpires are unable to divorce themselves from bringing players back directly over the mark. In any case teams have already learned not to chase the footy so the delay in getting the pill to the nearest player negates that rule. At best it needs tweaking at worst it's not effective.
It may be because of the significant changes in body shape, but it appeared to me the girls were now using the full sized footy. Last year they used the smaller size footy, can anyone confirm the situation for the current season?
Looking at the two teams last night, our list management versus the Pies, I'm not sure we can sustain that game style and make an impact on the finals. The Pies were significantly bigger in build and height, we've gone the diverse mosquito fleet route. That is not a detraction from the play of the smaller girls who often took down larger opponents.
Maddison Gay will be the AFLW best player within a season or two. She moves and thinks like her male counterparts, as team-mates imrpove she will become an attacking weapon.
I'm a bit concerned about Lauren Arnell and her future, I can see why she stood aside from the captaincy. It's clear the average AFLW player is now faster and stronger, Lauren no longer has the leg speed to keep up and her strength and aggression are no longer an advantage. I hope she can prove me wrong.
Overall I'm very happy with the progress the girls have made, if the guys showed this sort of improvement we'd be on a 3 year rebuild not a 20 year hiatus!
Great post LP.
From Maddison Gay - CFC website
“I go from working eight hours a day, straight to the Club, so days I’m training I start at 7am and get home around 10:30pm."
For those who enjoy comparing apples with oranges, compare a day in Madison's life with that of any AFL player ;)
Someone get the defib to jimbos house ASAP!
Lol...Too late!
(http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/Top5Rd1AFLWPicFinal.jpg)
From what I heard on the radio, Tayla Harris had more contested marks than Collingwood and a game high six contested possessions.
She is going to be a real asset but we need to get Sav working on her kicking :)
Those particular boys you're talking about would have as much or even more muscle definition and strength than the 18yo female. It's 's not always about weight. Female's will only kick it 60% of their male counterparts hence if they're playing on a full size ground scores will be very low. juts have to take that into account. Like female cricketers, female footballers need to play on a smaller ground if you want higher scores.
As DJC says, inside 50 is a useless stat for females, inside 25 or 30 is critical.
And yet 18yo women are far more capable of making an impact in women's tennis, as but one example, than their male peers....
if it's true most of the women can't kick straight (or hit a target) over 30m, they've totally lost me....
And yet 18yo women are far more capable of making an impact in women's tennis, as but one example, than their male peers....
Hardly a valid comparison! ::)
It is a key point though (although it supports the opposing side in the debate)....professional women's tennis for around 50+ years...WAFL at the elite level for one.
With the fast tracking of modern training methods within 10 years or less we'll see a much superior product.
And yet 18yo women are far more capable of making an impact in women's tennis, as but one example, than their male peers....
if it's true most of the women can't kick straight (or hit a target) over 30m, they've totally lost me....
Kicking relies more on strength. Tennis is a different skill, relies more on run and skill with the racket. Even then they don't exactly serve at 240k. Let's not compare sports. Different game so compare like for like. Women will only kick the ball about 60% of the men. On AFL grounds they'll struggle to score because of that. If you women are going to be kicking bombs from outside 50 your knowledge of anatomy and physiology is sadly lacking. Have to accept scores will be low, they might kick 40m at the absolute best, if you're going to watch the game. It's footy but it'll be a bit different.
I'm reminded of a conversation I heard on SEN (I think) some time back. A caller explained that he was responsible for developing the physical exercise regime for female recruits when the Australian Army decided to allow female soldiers to join most corps and services rather than being restricted to the WRAAC and nursing. After a couple of weeks, he realised that basing the physical exercise regime on that of male recruits was a huge mistake. Females obviously have significantly different musculoskeletal systems to males and were being injured trying to replicate the male recruits' exercise regime.
No matter how many seasons of AFLW there may be, most female players will never be able to perform anywhere near the level of male players. The NBL and WNBL comparisons have a much longer history and they are virtually different games. However, I don't mind watching WNBL (perhaps because they play like I did).
Anyone who expects AFLW to be the same as AFL will be sadly disappointed. Anyone who enjoys Australian footy, and can appreciate less power and more subtlety, will happily watch AFLW.
Sorry folks, Empire's New Clothes here! The commentators can pump it up all they like but based on the first 3 games, the skills have not improved at all. Top 3-4 are ok to good, but the tail extends a mile. And to think that they are adding new teams next year to dilute the standard further.
I had hope for the concept last year, based on the fact that another preseason would hone the skills etc however based on the current structure, I give in Mo, I mean no, hope.
@ DJC
I agree and think you've summed up the debate nicely.
Whilst gender differences in musculoskeletal systems are significant, there are significant differences in almost every system. Hence complimenting and evolving as a species. Like I said. Apples and oranges.
Whether the sport will be sustainable in the current era is another question. One that I'm unsure of.
From what I heard on the radio, Tayla Harris had more contested marks than Collingwood and a game high six contested possessions.
She is going to be a real asset but we need to get Sav working on her kicking :)
It was a real mistake to appoint Casboult as her kicking coach...
I'm reminded of a conversation I heard on SEN (I think) some time back. A caller explained that he was responsible for developing the physical exercise regime for female recruits when the Australian Army decided to allow female soldiers to join most corps and services rather than being restricted to the WRAAC and nursing. After a couple of weeks, he realised that basing the physical exercise regime on that of male recruits was a huge mistake. Females obviously have significantly different musculoskeletal systems to males and were being injured trying to replicate the male recruits' exercise regime.
No matter how many seasons of AFLW there may be, most female players will never be able to perform anywhere near the level of male players. The NBL and WNBL comparisons have a much longer history and they are virtually different games. However, I don't mind watching WNBL (perhaps because they play like I did).
Anyone who expects AFLW to be the same as AFL will be sadly disappointed. Anyone who enjoys Australian footy, and can appreciate less power and more subtlety, will happily watch AFLW.
While much of that holds true for strength and power (doubtful we'll see any 60-70 metre kicks) the skill aspect should definitely improve as years go by. Holding on to marks, disposal,skills under pressure.... all those things.
From what I heard on the radio, Tayla Harris had more contested marks than Collingwood and a game high six contested possessions.
She is going to be a real asset but we need to get Sav working on her kicking :)
She just stabbed at that kick, she needs to kick through the ball, she knows how to....
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/02/24/02/317E7E9000000578-3461274-image-a-1_1456280017194.jpg)
She just stabbed at that kick, she needs to kick through the ball, she knows how to....
I think that she is fine when kicking from a fair way out - and she would have to be one of the longest kicks in the AFLW - but seems to be uncertain when kicking from closer to goal.
While much of that holds true for strength and power (doubtful we'll see any 60-70 metre kicks) the skill aspect should definitely improve as years go by. Holding on to marks, disposal,skills under pressure.... all those things.
I agree that skills will improve as will the ability to read the game. That should encourage a more free-flowing, less structured gamestyle.
Kicking and handpassing will remain a point of difference and I think that much smaller hands will mean that marking and ball handling will never become as clean, even with the Size 4 footy.
None of the above impacts on my enjoyment of women's footy :)
I wonder if the AFL took the ALFW seriously enough when planning. Some humble thoughts.
1. Free entry spanks of fear that there will be little interest. Many knew it would be popular. There should be a gold coin donation as entry, which goes to a reputable breast cancer research organisation/domestic violence support organisation. A magnificent opportunity to do some real good re women's issues, missed. But it's not too late. There is a dynamic opportunity here for the league to buddy up with women's issues organisations and for the players to become mentors etc. AFL marketing dept must be one of the most unimaginative and impotent in modern business.
2. Last touch free kick (boundary line) worked a treat, eh! ::) They just don't get it, do they. The differences between male and female physiology is well said by others. But the AFL failed to take this into account. To speed up the game and get more scoring you only need to factor in the different body structures... so, tackling modifications to better suit women - for a start, no shirt-fronts, breasts don't do well with repeated blows. Like the head and genitals, harsh contact to the boozies should be penalised.
3. Get tougher on incorrect disposal. The number of free kicks that didn't happen in all 3 games was embarrassing. This should also apply in the men's competition. Look at replays of games a couple of decades ago or longer, if you were caught with the aggot whether you had prior opportunity or not, you were penalised. This will speed up both games. Once you take possesion, you'd better dispose of it by foot or handball... or else.
4. Absolutely the skills will improve in time. But it'll take some time as more funding goes to girls (up to 12 years) and teens and more teams and leagues are established.
5. Ball size is still not right. Confidence for the women / teens / girls will come when they can have more control over the ball in their hands - this will also improve skills (obviously).
my mates used to come and watch me play footy, and i can assure you it wasn't for the quality of the footy. footy is way more than watching elite athletes running around.
the lady Blues go hard at it, and are playing for CFC. that's enough for me to enjoy the game.
the players and the game will evolve over time, like everything starting out. they simply haven't had the pathway, the development, or the number of participants required yet. even so, i enjoy it for what it is. they are the best women footballers in the country, and they're having a crack.
i think the AFL are being smart. they can afford to prop up the aflw, because it will pay them back in spades. more female participation equals more female bums on seats and more female viewers on telly, and more boys allowed to play junior footy. it's just another aspect of the brand to me, and helps them be more inclusive.
Go Lady Blues.
Good posts Baggers and Tragic.
It is what it is. It isn't AFLv2.0, and I don't expect it to be, so I enjoy it (especially when Carlton win). It's a different version of the same game, with lots of differences, particularly in terms of size and power. I enjoy it the same way as I have enjoyed watching my boy play junior footy over the past 8 or 9 years. I don't expect super skills, what's enjoyable is watching the team compete and do the beat they can, and watching the players develop and improve. I've enjoyed watching junior footy MUCH more than watching Carlton's AFL team over the past 8 or 9 years
It is what it is. It isn't AFLv2.0, and I don't expect it to be, so I enjoy it (especially when Carlton win). It's a different version of the same game, with lots of differences, particularly in terms of size and power. I enjoy it the same way as I have enjoyed watching my boy play junior footy over the past 8 or 9 years. I don't expect super skills, what's enjoyable is watching the team compete and do the beat they can, and watching the players develop and improve. I've enjoyed watching junior footy MUCH more than watching Carlton's AFL team over the past 8 or 9 years
Well said
I was never expecting them to kick goals from 50, not even 35- 40m tbh.
But 25m, bloody oath. And to hit up a target over that distance more often than not....
Suggesting a 18yo girl is physically weaker than a 12yo boy (in general) is pure balderdash.
Suggesting executing a decent drop punt is more about strength than anything else is equally problematic - try ball drop, timing and technique.....
And sure, I don't want the girls to start shirt fronting or doing Dusty's 'don't argue' but I do expect them to be able to execute a reasonable handball to a team mate over 2-3 metres.....
Anyway, enjoy it folks. Each to their own....
I wonder if the AFL took the ALFW seriously enough when planning. Some humble thoughts.
1. Free entry spanks of fear that there will be little interest. Many knew it would be popular. There should be a gold coin donation as entry, which goes to a reputable breast cancer research organisation/domestic violence support organisation. A magnificent opportunity to do some real good re women's issues, missed. But it's not too late. There is a dynamic opportunity here for the league to buddy up with women's issues organisations and for the players to become mentors etc. AFL marketing dept must be one of the most unimaginative and impotent in modern business.
2. Last touch free kick (boundary line) worked a treat, eh! ::) They just don't get it, do they. The differences between male and female physiology is well said by others. But the AFL failed to take this into account. To speed up the game and get more scoring you only need to factor in the different body structures... so, tackling modifications to better suit women - for a start, no shirt-fronts, breasts don't do well with repeated blows. Like the head and genitals, harsh contact to the boozies should be penalised.
3. Get tougher on incorrect disposal. The number of free kicks that didn't happen in all 3 games was embarrassing. This should also apply in the men's competition. Look at replays of games a couple of decades ago or longer, if you were caught with the aggot whether you had prior opportunity or not, you were penalised. This will speed up both games. Once you take possesion, you'd better dispose of it by foot or handball... or else.
4. Absolutely the skills will improve in time. But it'll take some time as more funding goes to girls (up to 12 years) and teens and more teams and leagues are established.
5. Ball size is still not right. Confidence for the women / teens / girls will come when they can have more control over the ball in their hands - this will also improve skills (obviously).
Good points Baggers, particularly the gold coin donation and women's issues. The only reason I can think of for why this hasn't been done is the cost of collecting and processing donations. Perhaps a volunteer organisation could do it.
The size of the footy is an interesting issue. Women's hands are significantly smaller than men's and a smaller footy may be easier to handle and mark. However, my rudimentary knowledge of physics and aerodynamics suggests that the smaller the footy, the less distance it can be kicked :-\
The AFL should really test proposed rule changes under match conditions before making changes. Surely it would have been possible to trial the last touch rule in a few VFLW games.
Anyway, enjoy it folks. Each to their own....
Probably the bottom line.
Those of us that are enjoying it... good on us.
If you're not that's OK too!
The success of the competition will depend on winning over those who are not currently on board, and that will probably depend on an improvement in the skills over the years.
I was never expecting them to kick goals from 50, not even 35- 40m tbh.
But 25m, bloody oath. And to hit up a target over that distance more often than not....
Suggesting a 18yo girl is physically weaker than a 12yo boy (in general) is pure balderdash.
Suggesting executing a decent drop punt is more about strength than anything else is equally problematic - try ball drop, timing and technique.....
And sure, I don't want the girls to start shirt fronting or doing Dusty's 'don't argue' but I do expect them to be able to execute a reasonable handball to a team mate over 2-3 metres.....
Anyway, enjoy it folks. Each to their own....
Physiology isn't your strong point. In the end i'm sure some girls have a good ball drop and timing but if you don't have the physical strength to get the distance it's not going that far, and that's the biggest difference in this case. Those with better timing and ball drops will kick it further of course but they won't be kicking it like men or even bigger young boys. Welcome to the world of differences between men and women.
Some of those 12yo can be fair size boys. Some could well be stronger than an 18yo female depending on what stage of physical development they are at. there's won't be of course.
You miss the point.
You miss the point.
Say whatever you want.
Girls are not as strong as boys.
Skinny girls that weigh half as much as an AFL footballer are not going to be known for their long kicking.
The naysayers are founding their arguments based on what women do relative to men, it's pointless.
They don't get that the AFLW is a totally different game, so comparisons with AFL are pointless.
Like comparing Go-Karts to F1. They can race on the same track with the same priorities, rules and a similar skill set but that is where the comparison ends. Yet you can easily understand and respect both sports. Why is it so hard for some to accept females playing football, that seems to be the issue underlying many negative posts!
I wonder if the AFL took the ALFW seriously enough when planning. Some humble thoughts.
1. Free entry spanks of fear that there will be little interest. Many knew it would be popular. There should be a gold coin donation as entry, which goes to a reputable breast cancer research organisation/domestic violence support organisation. A magnificent opportunity to do some real good re women's issues, missed. But it's not too late. There is a dynamic opportunity here for the league to buddy up with women's issues organisations and for the players to become mentors etc. AFL marketing dept must be one of the most unimaginative and impotent in modern business.
2. Last touch free kick (boundary line) worked a treat, eh! ::) They just don't get it, do they. The differences between male and female physiology is well said by others. But the AFL failed to take this into account. To speed up the game and get more scoring you only need to factor in the different body structures... so, tackling modifications to better suit women - for a start, no shirt-fronts, breasts don't do well with repeated blows. Like the head and genitals, harsh contact to the boozies should be penalised.
3. Get tougher on incorrect disposal. The number of free kicks that didn't happen in all 3 games was embarrassing. This should also apply in the men's competition. Look at replays of games a couple of decades ago or longer, if you were caught with the aggot whether you had prior opportunity or not, you were penalised. This will speed up both games. Once you take possesion, you'd better dispose of it by foot or handball... or else.
4. Absolutely the skills will improve in time. But it'll take some time as more funding goes to girls (up to 12 years) and teens and more teams and leagues are established.
5. Ball size is still not right. Confidence for the women / teens / girls will come when they can have more control over the ball in their hands - this will also improve skills (obviously).
I agree with the gold coin donation, but not that it should go to a charity. That's kind of insulting actually. Do you think the men would play for unders and let the proceeds of their efforts be given away? We should certainly be charging a gold coin donation, but put that money back into the development of the women. The key issue with this competition is that the women aren't full time professional sports people. They only train twice a week and still work full time jobs. The only way this competition improves is if they are able to dedicate the same amount of time to perfecting their game as the men do.
Also, tackling shouldn't be modified, breasts are more resilient than you think lol.
Say whatever you want.
Girls are not as strong as boys.
Skinny girls that weigh half as much as an AFL footballer are not going to be known for their long kicking.
No scheisse Sherlock. You miss the point too....
Since when is the skill of kicking or handballing a footy i.e. hitting a target a function of strength?
I was impressed by the tackling efforts btw.
It's a shame you don't hold Levi Casboult to the same standards as these girls.
It's a shame you don't hold Levi Casboult to the same standards as these girls.
It guess it was only a matter of time before poor old Levi was dragged into the debate. I almost did it myself yesterday.
No scheisse Sherlock. You miss the point too....
Since when is the skill of kicking or handballing a footy i.e. hitting a target a function of strength?
I was impressed by the tackling efforts btw.
I think there is only 1 person missing the point, and that is you.
I think you've forgotten what you actually said to begin with!
As for Gee, gosh a good little runner but ran at an open goal but the kick barely went 12m!
You are clearly talking about length of the kick, rather than the accuracy of it. Which is why we are having this strength debate.
No, I rest my case.
I never said she should kick it 50 or even 40 or even 30.....pretty easy point to grasp really. For most.
::) ::)
I agree with the gold coin donation, but not that it should go to a charity. That's kind of insulting actually. Do you think the men would play for unders and let the proceeds of their efforts be given away? We should certainly be charging a gold coin donation, but put that money back into the development of the women. The key issue with this competition is that the women aren't full time professional sports people. They only train twice a week and still work full time jobs. The only way this competition improves is if they are able to dedicate the same amount of time to perfecting their game as the men do.
Also, tackling shouldn't be modified, breasts are more resilient than you think lol.
Fair call but I beg to differ. I don't think it would be insulting. In fact I suspect many of the women would be wrapped to know that some proceeds from their efforts would go to help worthy women causes.
However, the core of my point was that the AFL has not demonstrated imagination in terms of reaping full benefit from the popularity of the ALFW. Of course a % of proceeds should be poured back into the further development of the competition.
Even the men's comp has special affiliation rounds to show support to various community issues/charities - prostate cancer for one and I'm sure the players are happy that money raised from their efforts aids prostate cancer research.
Perhaps, and I'm only brainstorming here/just thought starters, a certain % goes to further development but each round also buddies up with a given bona fide women's cause... this gives promotion to the cause and would encourage corporate sponsorship which brings in more money to also aid development. That's central to my argument, just apply imagination to marketing potential that could deliver both cause support and future development support. This grows the ALFW in other ways that can only help.
I was not aware that bosoms are very resilient and localised trauma is not indicative of cancer risk (like a good boy, I did some research :)) )... perhaps I've been too gentle over the decades ;D
A two week ban for the kick to the groin seems about right in a short season.
If it had been the men I'd expect 3 or more, but 2 out of 7 or so AFLW games is a hefty penalty and appropriate.
A two week ban for the kick to the groin seems about right in a short season.
If it had been the men I'd expect 3 or more, but 2 out of 7 or so AFLW games is a hefty penalty and appropriate.
I think that it's too lenient LP.
I realise that it's a short season but kicking an opponent, and particularly in the groin, deserves a more severe penalty. It looked bad and just the thing to stop mothers letting their daughters play footy. The AFL made a lot of noise about coming down hard on AFLW players that punch and they've let D'Arcy off with a slap from a wet lettuce leaf.
I would have suspended her for the rest of the season.
One mitigating factor is that she was given an almighty wedgie that should have earned her a 50 metre penalty. If that was paid in a timely manner, she probably wouldn't have kicked. The umpires seemed reluctant to pay obvious frees and 50m penalties. Perhaps they are umpiring to instructions. If so, the instructions need to change!
No, I rest my case.
I never said she should kick it 50 or even 40 or even 30.....pretty easy point to grasp really. For most.
::) ::)
...and i never said you did say that.
You talked about length, not skills and were called out on it. Deal.
Molloy got the games MVP Nomination over Chiocci, I'm a bit surprised but I'm probably biased, and they both played well.
Fair call but I beg to differ. I don't think it would be insulting. In fact I suspect many of the women would be wrapped to know that some proceeds from their efforts would go to help worthy women causes.
However, the core of my point was that the AFL has not demonstrated imagination in terms of reaping full benefit from the popularity of the ALFW. Of course a % of proceeds should be poured back into the further development of the competition.
Even the men's comp has special affiliation rounds to show support to various community issues/charities - prostate cancer for one and I'm sure the players are happy that money raised from their efforts aids prostate cancer research.
Perhaps, and I'm only brainstorming here/just thought starters, a certain % goes to further development but each round also buddies up with a given bona fide women's cause... this gives promotion to the cause and would encourage corporate sponsorship which brings in more money to also aid development. That's central to my argument, just apply imagination to marketing potential that could deliver both cause support and future development support. This grows the ALFW in other ways that can only help.
I was not aware that bosoms are very resilient and localised trauma is not indicative of cancer risk (like a good boy, I did some research :)) )... perhaps I've been too gentle over the decades ;D
Yeah I think that would be a better compromise. But I still think it would be a bit of a slap in the face when the women are already grossly underpaid. I get that there are rounds in the AFL that go to certain charities, but even average male footballers are earning 6 figure wages. The women aren't being paid enough to forgo other full time employment, so until that happens, I'd rather see any profits made go back into the game, particularly via the women. The sooner they can become full time sports people, the sooner the skill levels will improve.
Yeah I think that would be a better compromise. But I still think it would be a bit of a slap in the face when the women are already grossly underpaid. I get that there are rounds in the AFL that go to certain charities, but even average male footballers are earning 6 figure wages. The women aren't being paid enough to forgo other full time employment, so until that happens, I'd rather see any profits made go back into the game, particularly via the women. The sooner they can become full time sports people, the sooner the skill levels will improve.
Yep, but I think the women are realistic enough to understand that it'll take time to earn serious loot (what they deserve). I don't think there's any greater slap in the face than making admission free. Treats them like a sideshow. What I am proposing is to begin to value their league more to put a premium on it - some entrance fee. At least from something you can grow to more and justify it, and then share the spoils.
I was never expecting them to kick goals from 50, not even 35- 40m tbh.
But 25m, bloody oath. And to hit up a target over that distance more often than not....
Suggesting a 18yo girl is physically weaker than a 12yo boy (in general) is pure balderdash.
Suggesting executing a decent drop punt is more about strength than anything else is equally problematic - try ball drop, timing and technique.....
And sure, I don't want the girls to start shirt fronting or doing Dusty's 'don't argue' but I do expect them to be able to execute a reasonable handball to a team mate over 2-3 metres.....
Anyway, enjoy it folks. Each to their own....
x100. Perfectly said!!!!
To televise live on FTA and bang on like its going to be so amazing.......its a major let down if you watch it unbiased. And yeah it got $19K fans but no one put there hand in their pocket. Who in the right mind would pay even $5 to watch it!! You would have to be mad.
To be brutally honest there are large chunks of the match that were laughable..............the second half in particular was an appalling - basic skills were just not there. Under 14s is of a consistently higher standard. Some were complaining it to AFL res grade - please!!!!!
I said it before and will say it again....take off the club colours and no one would be in the slightest bit interested.
Wont last.
x100. Perfectly said!!!!
To televise live on FTA and bang on like its going to be so amazing.......its a major let down if you watch it unbiased. And yeah it got $19K fans but no one put there hand in their pocket. Who in the right mind would pay even $5 to watch it!! You would have to be mad.
To be brutally honest there are large chunks of the match that were laughable..............the second half in particular was an appalling - basic skills were just not there. Under 14s is of a consistently higher standard. Some were complaining it to AFL res grade - please!!!!!
I said it before and will say it again....take off the club colours and no one would be in the slightest bit interested.
Wont last.
Same could be said for the mens team for large parts of the past 2 decades.
As i've said previously, its not just about skills, its about the contest. That goes for any sport.
Same could be said for the mens team for large parts of the past 2 decades.
As i've said previously, its not just about skills, its about the contest. That goes for any sport.
While I agree the mens team has for too long been one of the consistently weaker teams but don't bother discussing the skill levels of each competition, as there is no argument.
Over the last 20 we have had players of the calibre of Judd, Fev, Kouta, Murphy to name a few.
You will never ever ever witness anything even close to that level in the women's comp.
Back in the day I used to watch SANFL and think that the skills displayed in that seemed to be superior to what was on show in the old VFL.
The reality was that the level of play in the VFL was streets ahead.
The difference was the pressure.
You had less time to execute in VFL.
Kicks and handballs were performed under greater pressure and as a result were often less 'çlean' than they were in minor leagues.
It's the same with Under 18 footballers these days.
Take the star U/18 player and pop him in an AFL side and he doesn't look anywhere near the player he was in the junior league until he gets up to speed with the game.
I suspect this is what we're seeing with the women at the moment.
They're all "9-game players" at this level of pressure.
How many "9 game AFLérs" are up to speed with the game?
Let's see what it looks like in a couple of seasons.
Back in the day I used to watch SANFL and think that the skills displayed in that seemed to be superior to what was on show in the old VFL.
The reality was that the level of play in the VFL was streets ahead.
The difference was the pressure.
You had less time to execute in VFL.
Kicks and handballs were performed under greater pressure and as a result were often less 'çlean' than they were in minor leagues.
It's the same with Under 18 footballers these days.
Take the star U/18 player and pop him in an AFL side and he doesn't look anywhere near the player he was in the junior league until he gets up to speed with the game.
I suspect this is what we're seeing with the women at the moment.
They're all "9-game players" at this level of pressure.
How many "9 game AFLérs" are up to speed with the game?
Let's see what it looks like in a couple of seasons.
Good points Lods - as usual ;)
I think that the short season makes a huge difference to the intensity of the game and, hence, the pressure and perceived pressure. Losing a game here or there in an AFL season doesn't mean all that much but losing a game in the AFLW could end your finals prospects.
I still don't have TV (my son and my nephew are going to sort it next weekend) but, from what I've seen, defensive structures ruled and the pressure was intense. That certainly would have had an impact on the skills and fluidity of the game.
Give it time.
The league's best player last season was a basketballer.
Our best player was a goalkeeper.
Imagine how good they would have been if they had focused on footy their whole lives?
Give it time.
The league's best player last season was a basketballer.
Our best player was a goalkeeper.
Imagine how good they would have been if they had focused on footy their whole lives?
Yes, no doubt that will be the case!
Also the massive rise in fitness and physicality has, as Lods points out, greatly increased pressure acts on field. At the moment the girls are playing catch up in terms of decision making and experience. They are all now fit enough to get to the contest and influence the disposal, but they are not experienced at playing under such pressure. The tell for me is how many of them are still goal orientated, they still try to pick up the pill and head straight through a wall of opponents for goal.
If you want to judge how much they have improved, it will probably show when their normal state level season starts later this year and the fitness and talent is spread across many teams.
Give it time.
The league's best player last season was a basketballer.
Our best player was a goalkeeper.
Imagine how good they would have been if they had focused on footy their whole lives?
Yes indeed.
AND, its okay to find the women a bit good to look at.
Lets not pretend that we aren't human and don't have human urges.
I have heard people scream out their love of a male player, and it had nothing to do with their ability to play football but rather how good they looked in a small pair of shorts etc.
Its perfectly fine to find some of the females a bit cute.
Don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise.
...and i never said you did say that.
You talked about length, not skills and were called out on it. Deal.
You're a black and white guy eh, religious overtones?
Yes, a comment was about her poor kicking length, a function of poor skills. Is it really tht hard to comprehend?
AND, its okay to find the women a bit good to look at.
Lets not pretend that we aren't human and don't have human urges.
I have heard people scream out their love of a male player, and it had nothing to do with their ability to play football but rather how good they looked in a small pair of shorts etc.
Its perfectly fine to find some of the females a bit cute.
Don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise.
What if it's your better half? ;)
What if it's your better half? ;)
Nothing better than standing in the crowd at the footy and listening to sad old drunken bastards describe how they'd like to boof your mate's teenage daughter! :o
Please give me more of it! ::)
What if it's your better half? ;)
Dont talk about it....
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/aflw-2018-standard-will-only-get-better-says-afl-boss-gillon-mclachlan-20180206-h0ugzz.html
Not solely related to this game.
You're a black and white guy eh, religious overtones?
Yes, a comment was about her poor kicking length, a function of poor skills. Is it really tht hard to comprehend?
Swing and a miss, yet again Flyboy.
Skills is ability to hit a target.
Kicking length has nothing to do with skills.
Some skillful players couldn't kick 50.
Some players (like casboult) can kick the ball 60m but you wouldn't call him skilled.
You got caught BSing. Just deal with it and move on. Stop slinging mud and deflecting.
Standard is better than last year.
The Collingwood captain's father posts here but I can't remember who it is?
Still lurking around buddy.
Don't post much during the summertime. For obvious reasons. :o
But, get my NAVY groove on come late March... :D
Still lurking around buddy.
Don't post much during the summertime. For obvious reasons. :o
But, get my NAVY groove on come late March... :D
Nice interview on the wireless :)
The Navy groove came over loud and clear, even if tempered by the rightfully proud parent responses :P
Swing and a miss, yet again Flyboy.
Skills is ability to hit a target.
Kicking length has nothing to do with skills.
Some skillful players couldn't kick 50.
Some players (like casboult) can kick the ball 60m but you wouldn't call him skilled.
You got caught BSing. Just deal with it and move on. Stop slinging mud and deflecting.
You are kidding me....wow, pot calling the kettle..... :-[ :-[
CARLTON women’s coach Damien Keeping — who is in hospital with a mystery condition — is in the sights of the AFL for his ultra-defensive game plan.
The AFL is furious with the tactics Keeping successfully employed against Collingwood in the AFLW season opener on Friday night and has voiced its dismay to the Blues.
In effect, the AFL has ordered Carlton to play a more open brand of football.
One opposition coach described Carlton’s game style as the return of “Rodney Eade’s flood’’, a reference to Eade’s groundbreaking but controversial tactic used at Sydney in the mid-1990s.
CARLTON women’s coach Damien Keeping — who is in hospital with a mystery condition — is in the sights of the AFL for his ultra-defensive game plan.
The AFL is furious with the tactics Keeping successfully employed against Collingwood in the AFLW season opener on Friday night and has voiced its dismay to the Blues.
In effect, the AFL has ordered Carlton to play a more open brand of football.
One opposition coach described Carlton’s game style as the return of “Rodney Eade’s flood’’, a reference to Eade’s groundbreaking but controversial tactic used at Sydney in the mid-1990s.
The credibility of any competition is that it not be "contrived."
Some critics probably already feel that's the case with this competition.
Teams must be allowed to use tactics that give them the best possible chances of winning.
If that's a concern for the AFL then change the rules.
The credibility of any competition is that it not be "contrived."
Some critics probably already feel that's the case with this competition.
Teams must be allowed to use tactics that give them the best possible chances of winning.
If that's a concern for the AFL then change the rules.
Well said, Principal LODS. What a lazy solution to the problem of low scoring from the AFL - tell the coaches to be less defensive. They've been training all pre season to adopt a certain style and the AFL comes up with this! Breathtaking shortsightedness and simplistic thinking. Yep, alter the rules to be fair to all...
The credibility of any competition is that it not be "contrived."
Some critics probably already feel that's the case with this competition.
Teams must be allowed to use tactics that give them the best possible chances of winning.
If that's a concern for the AFL then change the rules.
This made me so angry. A team is smart enough to employ a winning strategy but the AFL doesn't like the look of it, so they want them to change? Gil needs to FRO. If the club bows down to this I'll be extremely disappointed. You should always play to your strengths, our strength is our A Grade defence. We didn't give up the kitchen sink to bring in Nicola Stevens just for craps and giggles, we did it for further strengthen our backline.
Still lurking around buddy.
Don't post much during the summertime. For obvious reasons. :o
But, get my NAVY groove on come late March... :D
Steph played a ripper on Friday. Any chance she can defect at the end of the season? ;)
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/aflw/daniel-harford-says-afl-needs-to-be-careful-what-message-it-sends-over-aflw-competition/news-story/c45bfffbf4c09715587b327d8dde5c33
http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/garry-lyon-takes-aim-at-the-afl-for-undermining-the-aflw/news-story/5e7a3b73e829a49287b2b39862ef629e
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/aflw/daniel-harford-says-afl-needs-to-be-careful-what-message-it-sends-over-aflw-competition/news-story/c45bfffbf4c09715587b327d8dde5c33
http://www.news.com.au/sport/sports-life/garry-lyon-takes-aim-at-the-afl-for-undermining-the-aflw/news-story/5e7a3b73e829a49287b2b39862ef629e
Good articles.
I'm still speechless that the AFL could be so stupid re scoring comments. Lyon is right... decide whether you want a ridgey didge/authentic representation of our game or a show piece. If they want a high scoring show piece, make it touch-footy style - no tackling. Can't have it both ways... sheesh, there really are some c0ckheads at the AFL.
It's either a fair dinkum competition or it's entertainment.
If it's entertainment then why bother with drafts, trades and coaches, etc., etc. That would be making just a womens version of the little league!
Carlton is coping some blame in the media courtesy of Maguire's mob, but the Collingwood assistant coach has already come out and stated both clubs were to blame for defensive tactics. And that is natural given the state of player development.
As I've already stated in earlier posts, the first part of "The game" that gets better when fitness and strength are sorted is tagging and defense. Eventually the attacking players will learn to deal with tags and zones, but at the moment they have never experienced anything like it.
At the weekend Collingwoods forward moves were mindless with them often bombing the ball from the HFF instead of working their way through the zone. The only different between Carlton's zone and Collingwoods zone was that ours setup at CHB while the Collingwood zone setup across the midfield. We ended up with play mostly between the arcs.
Another part of the problem at the weekend was the slow adjudication of things like the new Last Touch Rule. I cannot see why it's isn't just played to advantage like any other free, but the dealt it out like it was a mark and forced players to go back and kick over the mark from outside the boundary preventing play on!
PS; It's moronic to think that high scoring is the only entertaining part of AFL, the pressure the girls applied last weekend compared to last season was enormous. It just goes to show you how shallow some people think, I bet some of the same people watch EPL and think it's great!
Steph played a ripper on Friday. Any chance she can defect at the end of the season? ;)
I'm afraid she's firmly entrenched at Pieland ATM.
Nice interview on the wireless :)
The Navy groove came over loud and clear, even if tempered by the rightfully proud parent responses :P
Thanks DJC.
Was wondering if any1 was listening. :o
On Tuesday AFL chief Gillon McLachlan hinted he was concerned by Friday night’s fixture that saw neither side kick a goal in the second half.
I watched every second of the game, and thought it was a good contest that could've gone either way. It was entertaining.
I didn't even realise that nobody kicked a goal after half time until i read that just now.
Goals does not necessarily make for an entertaining game.
Despite it being introduced to speed up the game and create more scoring, I find the last touch rule to be more counterproductive than any defensive tactics by the teams.
While skill levels are still being honed, there is obviously going to be a lot more missed targets than usual. What I found was a team would work incredibly hard to get the ball into their forward line, only to have a missed kick result in a turnover, whereas before there would obviously be a throw in and another chance to score. I think the rule should be scrapped personally.
Despite it being introduced to speed up the game and create more scoring, I find the last touch rule to be more counterproductive than any defensive tactics by the teams.
While skill levels are still being honed, there is obviously going to be a lot more missed targets than usual. What I found was a team would work incredibly hard to get the ball into their forward line, only to have a missed kick result in a turnover, whereas before there would obviously be a throw in and another chance to score. I think the rule should be scrapped personally.
Only having 16 girls on the field, on what is probably bigger grounds than they are used too, is probably increasing fatigue levels too. Of course that would detract from both a highly skilled game, and a fast paced one.
The majority of the AFLs rules actually hurt the style it hopes the game will be played in. Typical.
Only having 16 girls on the field, on what is probably bigger grounds than they are used too, is probably increasing fatigue levels too. Of course that would detract from both a highly skilled game, and a fast paced one.
The majority of the AFLs rules actually hurt the style it hopes the game will be played in. Typical.
Spot on!
I watched every second of the game, and thought it was a good contest that could've gone either way. It was entertaining.
I didn't even realise that nobody kicked a goal after half time until i read that just now.
Goals does not necessarily make for an entertaining game.
Both sides had set shots they forked up, the pressure was getting to them, jelly legs and little voices in their head.
The girls will get better the more games they play.
Both sides had set shots they forked up, the pressure was getting to them, jelly legs and little voices in their head.
The girls will get better the more games they play.
Of course they will.
And if there was only 10 girls on the field, the same would be true. However, what i said would be more true.
Its not just 1 thing, but you can't deny less girls+bigger grounds = greater fatigue levels = less skillful performances
Apparently the AFL has sent a note to all AFLW clubs asking them to play more attractive footy ::)
Getting rid of the "last touch" rule and instructing the umpires to pay all free kicks would help.
I understand the logic behind 16 a side but, with the relatively short kicking and lack of positive handpassing, it may be contributing to fatigue and, hence, a drop off in skills later in the game.
Apparently the AFL has sent a note to all AFLW clubs asking them to play more attractive footy ::)
Getting rid of the "last touch" rule and instructing the umpires to pay all free kicks would help.
I understand the logic behind 16 a side but, with the relatively short kicking and lack of positive handpassing, it may be contributing to fatigue and, hence, a drop off in skills later in the game.
How's that time machine working for ya? Got the hang of it yet?
Welcome to back a page or 2. ;)
How's that time machine working for ya? Got the hang of it yet?
Welcome to back a page or 2. ;)
It's going in for a service Kruddler ;)
Wasn't the earlier discussion in reference to the AFL's concerns about our tactics? The last news bulletin on the wireless mentioned a note to ALL clubs. That's either an escalation or an attempt to avoid the impression that we're being singled out. The player response to the AFL's note was along the lines of playing to win regardless of the look.
I watched every second of the game, and thought it was a good contest that could've gone either way. It was entertaining.
I didn't even realise that nobody kicked a goal after half time until i read that just now.
Goals does not necessarily make for an entertaining game.
Sorry for taking this chat off topic a little bit, but the soccer/european football supporter in me cannot help but find a sense of irony in this comment.
Particularly when all ive been hearing about was soccer being too low scoring.
Sometimes high scoring games are boring too. One way traffic is only good for the team scoring goals.
Sorry for taking this chat off topic a little bit, but the soccer/european football supporter in me cannot help but find a sense of irony in this comment.
Particularly when all ive been hearing about was soccer being too low scoring.
Sometimes high scoring games are boring too. One way traffic is only good for the team scoring goals.
It's a fair point, and I agree. I'm a fan of fast break footy, but excitement in sport is not reducible to simple one liners.
Sorry for taking this chat off topic a little bit, but the soccer/european football supporter in me cannot help but find a sense of irony in this comment.
Particularly when all ive been hearing about was soccer being too low scoring.
Sometimes high scoring games are boring too. One way traffic is only good for the team scoring goals.
Well said, 3 Leos. Good point.
You know, we really shouldn't be having this discussion. Any forward thinking organisation, with a thorough understanding of what is realistic, would have anticipated exactly what is happening for all the reasons we've discussed and have
taken appropriate action well before the first bounce rather than petulant knee jerk reactions that are just embarrassing to hear from senior AFL officials. They knew from last year what might need to be addressed. The numbskulls at the AFL thought the out-of-bounds last touch rule would be the all conquering panacea.
If you wanted to speed up the game/create higher scores for this year and the future... here's one bizarre idea out of left field... psst... ask the gals who are playing it!!!!!!!!! You would have thought this would have been initiative number 1 at the end of last season... involve the players in brainstorming some rule changes to achieve the desired outcomes. ::)
AFL, maybe you should have looked into ground size. Maybe you should have looked into paying more frees for incorrect disposal. Maybe you should have looked further into ball size. Maybe you should have better understood kicking/handball capabilities. Maybe you should just understand it will take time. Maybe you should research how to pay the players more so they can become semi-pro at least.
Well said, 3 Leos. Good point.
You know, we really shouldn't be having this discussion. Any forward thinking organisation, with a thorough understanding of what is realistic, would have anticipated exactly what is happening for all the reasons we've discussed and have taken appropriate action well before the first bounce rather than petulant knee jerk reactions that are just embarrassing to hear from senior AFL officials. They knew from last year what might need to be addressed. The numbskulls at the AFL thought the out-of-bounds last touch rule would be the all conquering panacea.
If you wanted to speed up the game/create higher scores for this year and the future... here's one bizarre idea out of left field... psst... ask the gals who are playing it!!!!!!!!! You would have thought this would have been initiative number 1 at the end of last season... involve the players in brainstorming some rule changes to achieve the desired outcomes. ::)
AFL, maybe you should have looked into ground size. Maybe you should have looked into paying more frees for incorrect disposal. Maybe you should have looked further into ball size. Maybe you should have better understood kicking/handball capabilities. Maybe you should just understand it will take time. Maybe you should research how to pay the players more so they can become semi-pro at least.
Stop making sense Baggers!
It would be a novel approach if the AFL let women decide how women's footy is played ::) However, regardless of whose opinion is sought, a body of evidence needs to be brought together. The expertise is available so why not apply it to AFLW in terms of ground size, ball size, number of players, modified rules, etc.
I heard Sam Lane on the wireless today and she was espousing a vision in which a shortened AFL season morphed into an AFLW season so that we have footy all year round. I disagree with the shortened AFL season but her vision has merit, provided the AFL gets the AFLW right. I think that it is showing promise, despite the AFL's best intentions, but it needs a woman's touch.
Most of this complaining is related to the Gloch spending all night standing next to Maguire who was fuming at Collingwoods lack of success, and the fact they scheduled an AFLW game Live to Air against a 20/20 semi-final!
What were they thinking?
Well said, 3 Leos. Good point.
You know, we really shouldn't be having this discussion. Any forward thinking organisation, with a thorough understanding of what is realistic, would have anticipated exactly what is happening for all the reasons we've discussed and have taken appropriate action well before the first bounce rather than petulant knee jerk reactions that are just embarrassing to hear from senior AFL officials. They knew from last year what might need to be addressed. The numbskulls at the AFL thought the out-of-bounds last touch rule would be the all conquering panacea.
If you wanted to speed up the game/create higher scores for this year and the future... here's one bizarre idea out of left field... psst... ask the gals who are playing it!!!!!!!!! You would have thought this would have been initiative number 1 at the end of last season... involve the players in brainstorming some rule changes to achieve the desired outcomes. ::)
AFL, maybe you should have looked into ground size. Maybe you should have looked into paying more frees for incorrect disposal. Maybe you should have looked further into ball size. Maybe you should have better understood kicking/handball capabilities. Maybe you should just understand it will take time. Maybe you should research how to pay the players more so they can become semi-pro at least.
Spot on Baggers. My question is, did they do a debrief or lessons learnt after the season last year involving all coaches and captains? Get them all in a room for a few days and table what worked well and what didn't. Sure the AFL/AFLW cheifs did this. If they didn't, they should all be fired.
PS Garry Lyon must read your posts as he said the exact same thing this morning on SEN (ie the bit in bold).
PSS Are you Garry Lyon? ;D
PSSS Has anyone seen Garry Lyon and Baggers in the same room? ;D ;D
Spot on Baggers. My question is, did they do a debrief or lessons learnt after the season last year involving all coaches and captains? Get them all in a room for a few days and table what worked well and what didn't. Sure the AFL/AFLW cheifs did this. If they didn't, they should all be fired.
PS Garry Lyon must read your posts as he said the exact same thing this morning on SEN (ie the bit in bold).
PSS Are you Garry Lyon? ;D
PSSS Has anyone seen Garry Lyon and Baggers in the same room? ;D ;D
Having enjoyed a pie standing next to Baggers at a NBs' game, I'm pretty sure that he isn't Garry Lyon :)
Having enjoyed a pie standing next to Baggers at a NBs' game, I'm pretty sure that he isn't Garry Lyon :)
Then Lyon reads his posts ;D ;D
Then Lyon reads his posts ;D ;D
The mainstream media set their own agenda but what they read in social media, it's why they report so much rubbish! ;D
Spot on Baggers. My question is, did they do a debrief or lessons learnt after the season last year involving all coaches and captains? Get them all in a room for a few days and table what worked well and what didn't. Sure the AFL/AFLW cheifs did this. If they didn't, they should all be fired.
PS Garry Lyon must read your posts as he said the exact same thing this morning on SEN (ie the bit in bold).
PSS Are you Garry Lyon? ;D
PSSS Has anyone seen Garry Lyon and Baggers in the same room? ;D ;D
:)) :)) :)) during the day, I do what I do... but then of a night I put on a hair suit and fight footy injustice... ;D
I have to agree with Bulldogs boss Peter Gordon.
The launch of AFLX during the AFLW season virtually confirms that the AFL is treating AFLW as a mickey mouse competition, and that the whole AFLW competition is just a token gesture and cheap money or kudos grab!
Is AFLW just the AFL's disingenuous grab for the LGBTIA dollar?
I have to agree with Bulldogs boss Peter Gordon.
The launch of AFLX during the AFLW season virtually confirms that the AFL is treating AFLW as a mickey mouse competition, and that the whole AFLW competition is just a token gesture and cheap money or kudos grab!
Is AFLW just the AFL's disingenuous grab for the LGBTIA dollar?
The AFLX basically takes place of the nab cup / challenge (practice matches)
The same practice matches that went ahead during the womens season last year.
You are jumping at shadows mate.
The AFLX basically takes place of the nab cup / challenge (practice matches)
The same practice matches that went ahead during the womens season last year.
You are jumping at shadows mate.
I think the NAB Cup has been replaced with practice matches, only a small number of players will participate in AFLX.
NAB Cup wasn't something new, AFLX will have a similar level of interest or appeal to the first AFLW match.
Secondly, the clubs with the licenses have poured some significant funds into the AFLW, so it's fair they ask the question because AFLX seems to undermine that investment while delivering nothing to the AFL clubs separate from the benefits to the sport as a whole.
I suppose if I assert the AFL has a money grab, then I have to accept the clubs probably do as well.