As many others were, I was deeply moved by Eddie's words on Fox Footy last night, I was brought to tears in fact. He ask for our help, so lets help.
I want to do something about It and I am sure many on here would like to help also. It seems the worst environments for this abhorrent behaviour is online, guess what? We are online. There are many very intelligent people on this site, we cannot stand by and ignore Eddie and his people. What can we do? I sent Eddie a DM via instagram this morning telling him I want to help. I gave him my contact details and in the mean time, I pledged to him and all Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander people that I would call out racism in any environment I find myself in and will report it.
Nuffs enuff people, we cannot stand by and do nothing.
Any ideas?
We need to stop all forms of bigotry both positive and negative and practise true equality.
Else we simply create the next batch of racists and bigots because we give them a reason to exist.
Stop referring to yourself as black fella. Stop referring to others as white fella. Stop referring to your groups as Asians, Indians, africans, wogs (growing up badge of honour), wasps.
Start identifying people instead. This isn't as bad as everyone makes out. You can make a racist comment and not be racist and likewise let's stop hanging people for their comments.
Society doesn't function by making everyone walk on eggshells in case they hurt someone's feelings. It functions by people doing what they do and when someone steps out of line (rightly or wrongly) they acknowledge their stuff up, figure out what's wrong about it, and then apologise for it.
We can't undo what has been done but we can be better to learn from it rather than continually shame ourselves for it.
I can honestly state that I have been made to feel shame for my heritage by some of the kids I grew up with and around. Two things occurred as a consequence. I dont truly feel accepted by Australia and therefore embrace my Greek heritage more. I have actually felt as though I will never really fit in because when I practise greek culture I've heard comments that have made me wonder why my parents came here to begin with.
Generally I'm a misfit. I am neither here nor there when it comes to culture and irrespective of what people say I dont really belong.
Too late to tell indigenous Australians not to call themselves Black fellas. The racists already know who they are and they make sure they’re treated differently. Trying to say their desire to show and feel solidarity is to blame is misguided at best. Let’s stop being racist towards minorities rather than telling them to be the best honorary whites they can be.
Too late to tell indigenous Australians not to call themselves Black fellas.
You'll even find a distinction is made in Indigenous culture between those who identify as "full blood" and those they see as "half-cast", someone like Betts or Goodes might not even be accepted by some of his distant genetic relatives, it's truly bizarre when you first encounter the idea coming from one Indigenous person that someone like Betts or Goodes isn't a "Real Black Fella"!
Most of the finger-pointing is really a gross generalisation, and that really does more harm than good.
Racism is therefore to some degree endemic, it's not restricted to any group, and as far as I can tell in my sphere of contacts it has no specific relationship with wealth, opportunity, ethnicity or education to determine who, when or where someone may be racist or act with racist intent.
Too late to tell indigenous Australians not to call themselves Black fellas. The racists already know who they are and they make sure they’re treated differently. Trying to say their desire to show and feel solidarity is to blame is misguided at best. Let’s stop being racist towards minorities rather than telling them to be the best honorary whites they can be.
thats all you absorbed from my post?
No wonder we get nowhere on this subject.
In other words, LP, we need to put a stop to racism whenever or wherever it arises, no matter who is perpetrating it.
thats all you absorbed from my post?
No wonder we get nowhere on this subject.
Given GTC’s post was about racism towards indigenous Australians, I limited my response to that topic. If you can state your opinion on that topic concisely, please do it.
Given GTC’s post was about racism towards indigenous Australians, I limited my response to that topic. If you can state your opinion on that topic concisely, please do it.
I think Thry was pointing out that racism isn't just black and white in Oz its a systemic cultural issue that has affected not just first nations folk and we need an over all solution that protects everyone.
Don't devalue his opinion as he has been at the pointy end himself and we need to include all races, colours, cultures if we want to get it right IMHO.
Given GTC’s post was about racism towards indigenous Australians, I limited my response to that topic. If you can state your opinion on that topic concisely, please do it.
I'll sum up Thry's point.
Don't highlight your differences, because then others will do the same....not always in a positive fashion.
I'll sum up Thry's point.
Don't highlight your differences, because then others will do the same....not always in a positive fashion.
So then does that mean an act of racism fundamentally an act of hypocrisy?
If I were a PR guru and racists came to me for some advice, I’d proceed as follows.
Take a leaf from Union busters. If you can stop people from organising and seeking public support, you can fragment them and exert power over them individually. Start a campaign to accuse the minority du jour of being the true racists: they should instead be admonished that they should forego any communal identity and blend. The catchcry should be, “I don’t see any colour - white, black, green ... it’s all the same to me. If you highlight your own skin colour or someone else’s, then you’re the real racist!”
This approach will work brilliantly. You’ll be free to carry on attacking indigenous Australians but you can add righteous indignation that they’re being racist in protesting about Invasion Day and the like. And you can use it as a cudgel to beat back anyone who may sympathise with the group you’re attacking.
Brilliant, eh? You can simply declare that racism doesn’t exist and some people will believe you. That’ll be $20,000, gentlemen, payable in Bitcoin.
In the USA they use a term "Passing", most of the time it's used and assumed to identify people who are accused of betraying/denying their African American heritage to "pass as white", in the bad old days it was apparently very common for mixed race individuals to pass themselves off as Italian, European or Welsh to get access to restricted resources and communities, even to marry.
But the term "passing" is not unidirectional, it's also used to describe someone who identifies themselves or connects with a culture when they really aren't part of it. Here you might think of Mitch Robinson or perhaps a Doug Pascoe aligning themselves with Indigenous culture, in that context the term passing works in the other direction.
In more modern time, the term is also starting to appear in social discussion of gender and sexuality.
In all cases it is derogative and divisive, yet it's still widely used and popular in racism debates, and in recent academic circles it's use has experienced a renaissance.
It's not possible to understand racism without understanding power relations, race relations and history. Racism manifests itself in different ways, on a spectrum from casual to overt, from simply being mildly odd and irritating to doing lasting and significant damage. It's a genuine problem which must be attended to collectively and individually.
It's not possible to understand racism without understanding power relations, race relations and history. Racism manifests itself in different ways, on a spectrum from casual to overt, from simply being mildly odd and irritating to doing lasting and significant damage. It's a genuine problem which must be attended to collectively and individually.
I fear the term has become too general, and now encapsulates far too many antisocial behaviours for it to ever be resolved.
For me true racism is more about xenophobia, but now it's broadened to become a political, social and economic weapon.
I fear the term has become too general, and now encapsulates far too many antisocial behaviours for it to ever be resolved.
For me true racism is more about xenophobia, but now it's broadened to become a political, social and economic weapon.
I disagree. Racism can and is way more subtle than overt xenophobia IMO.
I disagree. Racism can and is way more subtle than overt xenophobia IMO.
Yes, but "them versus us" happens at many levels of society even within families, yet it can only be labelled racism when the very same is directed externally.
The behaviour is the same, the motivations are the same, it's the context that makes it racist, that in itself is problematic.
Greed, Avarice, Lust, Envy, Pride, Sloth, etc., etc., do not all equal racism via a change of context or perspective, I feel blaming everything we dislike on racism has become too easy.
Am I being unfair or petty?
Given GTC’s post was about racism towards indigenous Australians, I limited my response to that topic. If you can state your opinion on that topic concisely, please do it.
Therein lies the problem.
You cant eliminate racism to one group only.
Bigotry is bigotry. The action is the problem.
Saying we can’t act on 1 component of a larger problem is a great recipe for doing nothing.
Saying we can’t act on 1 component of a larger problem is a great recipe for doing nothing.
Is that what I am advocating? Or are you dismissing my point regarding bigotry and eliminating, because its too broad a brush? Only one stating that we should do nothing about it is you.
You fat smelly, greasy wog. Go back to where you came from.
What Box Hill? I remember this conversation quite vividly. Thats the brand of non racism I experienced. This is largely a zero sum game, if you practise any form of racism, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
Indeed, but the way to address the problem is not to dilute concerns raised over the treatment of 1 group by demanding all evil be eliminated in one gigantic war against bigotry.
As The Doors sang, "People are strange". That's permanent.
An episode that stayed with me .... filled up the car at the "supposed" wrong side of SFO over the golden gate. White people weren't exactly seen in that area. Did it, couldn't get the pump back into the bowser properly. African American attendant came out, showed me the ropes, I said thanks mate ... he smiled and said "you all squared away brother"? I said "yep".
"OK, be cool"
Indeed, but the way to address the problem is not to dilute concerns raised over the treatment of 1 group by demanding all evil be eliminated in one gigantic war against bigotry.
You want to discriminate against other sections of the community ie Greeks/Italians, Asians, Muslims etc etc by ignoring their problems then good luck trying to a get a complete buy in from the entire community. Every group will see themselves as a priority and you will get nowhere.
My wifes sister is married to a part first nations gentleman who is white, blue eyed and looks every bit of Anglo Saxo origin.
That didnt stop him during a workplace disagreement being called a "White Nigger" and when he complained to management he was told he wasnt black enough to take it further...
I’m certainly not advocating discriminating against any group but if the reaction to attempts to fight discrimination against 1 group is met with “What about X?”, there’ll never be progress on any front.
I’m certainly not advocating discriminating against any group but if the reaction to attempts to fight discrimination against 1 group is met with “What about X?”, there’ll never be progress on any front.
Yes, I agree. There are degrees of racism, and there must be corresponding degrees of acknowledgment and recompense. There are major and significant differences between the way First Australians and European immigrants have been treated. I've never heard any indigenous person denying other races a voice, but their desire to be heard loud and strong is completely justified IMO.
Jewish people took an important lesson out of the Holocaust. Rather than just fighting anti-Semitism, they realised they needed to be allies to discriminated groups. In the Civil Rights unrest in the US in the 60s, Jewish lawyers with the ACLU were prominent supporters of black Americans’ fight for equality. Groups who have experienced discrimination in the past would do well to emulate that approach rather than bitch about past grievances. Unfortunately, the opposite tendency seems to be apparent: I got through the bigotry without much help, so now you should do the hard yards too.
Jewish people took an important lesson out of the Holocaust. Rather than just fighting anti-Semitism, they realised they needed to be allies to discriminated groups. In the Civil Rights unrest in the US in the 60s, Jewish lawyers with the ACLU were prominent supporters of black Americans’ fight for equality. Groups who have experienced discrimination in the past would do well to emulate that approach rather than bitch about past grievances. Unfortunately, the opposite tendency seems to be apparent: I got through the bigotry without much help, so now you should do the hard yards too.
The politics of resentment is very strong unfortunately, manifesting itself as grievances against others' supposed preferential treatment to which they themselves have been denied.
Maybe that support was temporarily forgotten in the case of Yankel Rosenbaum?
Yes, I agree. There are degrees of racism, and there must be corresponding degrees of acknowledgment and recompense. There are major and significant differences between the way First Australians and European immigrants have been treated. I've never heard any indigenous person denying other races a voice, but their desire to be heard loud and strong is completely justified IMO.
Why recompense? Justify why the innocent must pay for something they never did!!
That highlights how laudable the helping hand extended by the Jewish community was. There is tension between the Jewish community and the black community, especially black Muslims. The lesson should be that we should be allies of those experiencing discrimination even if they are in some ways our enemies. If minorities only support those who share common interests with them, they might find they have little support when it’s their turn in the barrel.
Niemöller’s words are inscribed in the Holocaust Museum:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
So then does that mean an act of racism fundamentally an act of hypocrisy?
Why?
It means if you don't see people in a different light, you can't attack them for being different (and vice versa).
If we see people as humans, rather than asians, africans, collingwood supporters (jokes, we know they're not human ;)) then there will be no prejudice and racism.
That highlights how laudable the helping hand extended by the Jewish community was. There is tension between the Jewish community and the black community, especially black Muslims. The lesson should be that we should be allies of those experiencing discrimination even if they are in some ways our enemies. If minorities only support those who share common interests with them, they might find they have little support when it’s their turn in the barrel.
Niemöller’s words are inscribed in the Holocaust Museum:
Plenty of people/groups need “speaking for” in this world of turmoil. Do we speak for all of them or are some more deserving, urgent or important than others. Politics, religion, economics, etc etc will always be involved.
But insisting that effort/comment should be spread equally among all groups/people experiencing discrimination or hatred throughout the world is a pretty good way of killing off any effort or comment. Rather than waiting for the big war against hatred that will never come, fight the smaller battles as they arise. I'm sure that over time, many, many different groups will be highlighted.
To me, the idea that one particular group's concerns can't be highlighted without devoting equal time to every instance of injustice is just an attempt to silence people. It's like when Black Lives Matter was trying to draw attention to the tendency of US police to kill blacks as a reflex action. Soon enough, All Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter banners were being flown. Ironically, right-wingers loved the Blue Lives Matter slogan until the Jan 6 Insurrection, and then the Trumpists started beating them with anything at hand.
The big tell is that there's no attempt to progress the debate after the "all injustice/bigotry is bad" point is made. That's just the end of the effort. It's not as though those who rely upon that argument follow it up with "We should do X, Y & Z" to address bigotry. GTC starts the thread with a call to action but the response is "Meh, there's a lot of things out there that aren't great, so I'm not going to bother with this".
I despise injustice and discrimination and would normally call it out as and when it crosses my path. However, I am very wary of groups organising to push a specific cause and of some of the individuals who may jump on board. I have some experience in this and of a well meaning group being hijacked by less than honest people surreptitiously pushing an extreme political view. It was a hard and distressing lesson so please forgive my occasional cynicism.
BTW, I am right behind Eddie in what he is doing but I would advise him to beware of fellow-travellers.
GTC starts the thread with a call to action but the response is "Meh, there's a lot of things out there that aren't great, so I'm not going to bother with this".
Beat me to it, lots of intellectual verbiage and nothing about vile taunts on social media and in the public towards Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders and the effect its having on one of our own. I'm disappointed, but I'm not giving up on Eddie, I will continue to try and make contact with him and offer my help and support (with our without anyone here).
GTC starts the thread with a call to action but the response is "Meh, there's a lot of things out there that aren't great, so I'm not going to bother with this".
You read what you want to read, and ignore what doesn't suit you.
I don't think people are not interested, people are offering up alternative thinking on the subject. 2 different things.
Someone gets their arm pulled off.
Someone offers them a bandaid.
Someone else offers to drive them to hospital.
Someone else offers to do the surgery.
All trying to help, some are more helpful than others.
Why offer a bandaid, where its clear that much more action is required?
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.
Sure, it helps if you know which direction your destination is though.
I’m certainly not advocating discriminating against any group but if the reaction to attempts to fight discrimination against 1 group is met with “What about X?”, there’ll never be progress on any front.
Problem is without " X, Y or Z" buying in you wont get anywhere because those sections of the community already feel left out and will stick in their enclaves. Fighting bullying which essentially is what racism is requires a community effort with people sticking together and changing the laws so bullies/racists are accountable by law and when they are brought to justice you have laws made and administered by the community which has to include representatives from every sector not just one minority group.
Sure, it helps if you know which direction your destination is though.
Just see where Pauline Hanson is heading and go in the opposite direction.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step.
It can't be a divisive step, there are far too many scatterbrain solutions being touted that effectively divide rather than unify.
The only safe first step that I can see is that if you want to stop racism then do not be racist, you can't be half-pregnant, and you can't be selectively racist. Anybody can be racist, it's not the purview of the wealthy, the white or the Christians.
I heard a great speech about this, I think it was from Dr Tom Calma, he basically called for Indigenous groups and youth to stop the labelling as a first step to a resolution, and they basically disowned him. Instead they aligned with someone like Anthony Mundine to create and apply bunch of chest beating emotive "us versus them" labels, it can't succeed because it is basically a rock throwing war. Of course on the flipside Calma was also shouted down for calling for the change to Australia Day, but you can see that the problems here arise from both sides of the debate.
I've been working with the Culture Group at Uni SA (for the past 5+ years now), presenting lectures, creating content, etc for undergraduate engineers.
Last week continued our annual 'culturally appropriate behaviour in project management' where we highlight working with project stakeholders, including traditional custodians, providing examples of biases (which we all have), etc. Powerful stuff and we believe it's certainly adding to the conversation and making a small difference.
Each of us can contribute in the way we live our daily lives at home, work, play.
Hopefully not too much off-topic, thought it was relevant to this thread. Cheers!
I've been working with the Culture Group at Uni SA (for the past 5+ years now), presenting lectures, creating content, etc for undergraduate engineers.
Last week continued our annual 'culturally appropriate behaviour in project management' where we highlight working with project stakeholders, including traditional custodians, providing examples of biases (which we all have), etc. Powerful stuff and we believe it's certainly adding to the conversation and making a small difference.
Each of us can contribute in the way we live our daily lives at home, work, play.
Hopefully not too much off-topic, thought it was relevant to this thread. Cheers!
That's encouraging to read. It should all start with trying to establish mutual respect between groups and cultures. Not always that easy.
Good stuff raven. Keep it up matey.
Is that what I am advocating? Or are you dismissing my point regarding bigotry and eliminating, because its too broad a brush? Only one stating that we should do nothing about it is you.
"You fat smelly, greasy wog. Go back to where you came from."
What Box Hill? I remember this conversation quite vividly. Thats the brand of non racism I experienced. This is largely a zero sum game, if you practise any form of racism, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.
I just wanted to add, I have heard comments in this vein of thinking as recently as 2018, and 2007. This wasnt in the school yard, once was down near the Greek consulate where I attended a protest against actions the Greek government were taking to do with national security and EU politics, and the other was going to pick up some noodles, and getting into an argument over a car parking spot down on the Mornington Peninsula because the lady who stole my car parking spot whilst I was waiting to pull in was female (#equality) and how dare I give her a piece of my mind (the guy who said it wasn't involved, but was your typical guy I seemed not to get much from aside from the aforementioned Greasy wog commentary over the years).
The attitudes and biases of many are alive and well. If any of you have ever been made to feel ashamed of your heritage simply because the person in front of you was a bigot, please share your experiences, and I would just like to thank the many voices of support for my view on this topic, because minimising my life experience doesn't get us anywhere on this front.
To highlight the juxtaposition, the people standing up for the BLM folk, usually consider me to be white and privlidged, and those who are actually white and privlidged, see me as part of an ethnic migrant minority who isnt like the BLM folk (irony).
Imagine feeling quite alone, because you are different from the other Greek kids (who's parents came in the secondary and tertiary waves of migration rather than the primary), and yet, not really accepted by those around you either. Its one of the reasons I joined this forum, because it gave me a place to belong.
Some of the stuff I grew up with was quite vitriolic. My Father was beaten up as a 19 year old driving a taxi whilst putting himself through school. I hear the stories of the recent migrants, and I find myself identifying more with their and their families experiences, than those of other kids who grew up in Australia. We didn't have a lot growing up like the other truly privlidged kids and my Grandparents, and parents worked really hard to get what they have. I remember going over to the neighbours to play video games, because I didnt have any in the 80's. I did have my family, and they did their best to provide for me, and I do my best to do them and society proud, so you wont really find me on the opposite side of a debate with someone experiencing true injustice. I got teased a bit for having holes in my pants that mum would sew up. I didnt go to the private schools like some of the other kids either. I did claim clothing from lost property to try and have a nicer uniform given my parents weren't necessarily providing me with new stuff all the time going to school (this stuff was perfectly fine and had hung around for a while). I had gotten some hand me downs from my older siblings which was normal for the time, but had seen some better days as I was a fair bit younger than my brother and my sister.
Im proud of who I am, the place I call home, and my heritage. My brother has renounced Australia. Wished our family never came here. I can understand why he thinks like this, but that's more about his life experience than mine and I think he fails to consider how much harder it would have been for us over in Greece where our family were literally working fields in small villages (that might have been a more simple life which may have been nice, but I cant know that). Odds are he experienced significantly worse than I did in the late 70's and early 80's when he was going to school as opposed to me who was born 8 years younger, but I share this tidbit to highlight, that I am not the only one in my family who experienced hatred and bigotry from people here growing up.
@ Thry
Firstly please don't take this wrong way, I do not in any want to lesson anything you have experienced.
I grew up in the Thornbury-Northcote area that had (and still has) a huge Greek and Italian population. The Greek population was bigger by a fair way I'd guess so needless to say, I grew up with a lot of Greek friends. One common theme amongst my Greek friends was that their parents wanted to go back to Greece, many of them did with many only to return again. I can only vouch for me associations but this was vary rare amongst my Italian friends and relatives. In fact I cant recall one Italian mate or relative whos family returned to Italy. I never understood it that, perhaps the Greek community took the vilification more to heart??? I can tell you I was racially vilified as much as the next "wog" growing up but it didn't bother me, I never once got into a fight over it, I just ignored it. I was and still am extremely proud of my Italian heritage, but I in the back of mind, I knew those calling me names were actually just as my of an "import" as my parents were. Today, the "yuppies/hipsters" pay a small fortune for the Italian style panini and focaccia I used to eat, and still do, every day. So I guess eventually, the locals have learnt to accept European stuff. Having said all that, I personally cannot even begin to compare what I went through to what the indigenous people in this country have gone through and continue to experience.
I just wanted to write a statement here before we continue so others can get the idea of what I am trying to state.
"The standard you walk past, is the standard you are willing to accept".
@ Thry
Firstly please don't take this wrong way, I do not in any want to lesson anything you have experienced.
I grew up in the Thornbury-Northcote area that had (and still has) a huge Greek and Italian population. The Greek population was bigger by a fair way I'd guess so needless to say, I grew up with a lot of Greek friends. One common theme amongst my Greek friends was that their parents wanted to go back to Greece, many of them did with many only to return again. I can only vouch for me associations but this was vary rare amongst my Italian friends and relatives. In fact I cant recall one Italian mate or relative whos family returned to Italy. I never understood it that, perhaps the Greek community took the vilification more to heart??? I can tell you I was racially vilified as much as the next "wog" growing up but it didn't bother me, I never once got into a fight over it, I just ignored it. I was and still am extremely proud of my Italian heritage, but I in the back of mind, I knew those calling me names were actually just as my of an "import" as my parents were. Today, the "yuppies/hipsters" pay a small fortune for the Italian style panini and focaccia I used to eat, and still do, every day. So I guess eventually, the locals have learnt to accept European stuff. Having said all that, I personally cannot even begin to compare what I went through to what the indigenous people in this country have gone through and continue to experience.
Thats cool GI2C. Your experience is different to mine.
I didn't grow up in the inner north. We were in what was the outer east (like I said, Box Hill South area). Not the niche market it is today.
I don't compare my experience with that of the indigenous but I think I have an understanding of it from a different perspective thanks to history. Don't forget I mentioned a comparison regarding affluence earlier too. The Greeks general experience with persecution is a bit different to the Italians thanks to the Ottoman empire, and the forced Turkification of what historically is Greek lands and peoples (or at very least Hellenic which is a small difference in translation) and distinction. Forced conversion to Islam. Abandonment of allies during the crusades (Christian/Catholic schism politics allowing Muslim invaders), ethnic cleansing, pogroms (death marches), population "exchanges". Its a history that is more relevant to those over in europe but also, more closely resembling that of what the Indigenous went through rather than the Italians, but the distincion is poignant. Have a think about the fact that the Gallipoli peninsula literally translates to "Blue City" in Greek, and is to the south of Point Hellas as one example of what I mean, without getting into any real debate about it. For the most part, these are views that are perpetuated throughout history, and I recognise that the Hellenic or Byzantine empire likely did similar to their rivals. This is a point of difference between Italians and Greeks but it probably explains the different reaction to the people's experience with racism historically.
What I do see though, is that we are fighting racism, and your comment in bold represents a mentality that needs to shift. You allow the above, or explain it away, and you therefore allow and enable people to hold similar views, against different people (including the indigenous).
You cannot fight racism against one only and I think this is the point I was trying to make as strongly as possible (which seemed to meet some denigration, because "its different"). You must set the standard for acceptable behaviour for ALL people of society (that point was clearly missed in my previous posts). There is a changing of the guards around these matters occurring, and none of it is acceptable any more and dividing people along those lines is what breeds racist sentiment to begin with.
"why dont you F%* OFF, and go back to where you came from" is completely unacceptable to utter against ANY person, because of the statement that you are not welcome to be part of our functioning society based on your background. Its unacceptable, and like I stated before. 2018 was the last time I heard this. Not that long ago in the scheme of things to be hearing that rhetoric.
I'll concur with Thry on the raciscm and bullying that the Greek and Italian kids copped....I went to Burwood Tech and was a Box Hill local myself , the school was notorious at the best of times even for the locals. We had a lot of problem kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, kids from boys homes etc and it was merciless at times how these migrant kids were treated.Staff couldnt handle the kids some who were men as we had 18/19 year olds who were kept down and nothing was done to stop it.
It just seemed like a rite of passage that every WOG kid had to go through and that it was universally accepted as being ok...so I get why Thry and in particular his brother felt they were isolated and abused. I remember one migrant kid was found impaled on the wire fence on the oval , the wire on the water pipe railing had been shoved through his wrist, another Italian kid ended up shoved head first through a telephone box we had out the front of the school. The solution was to remove the phone box..nothing else was done because it was just a Wog kid who they said started the fight which was BS, all the school knew who was responsible but the head bully was also the head prefect.
Yep its in the past and racism which is really bullying just comes in different forms now, bit more sophisticated more targetting the mental fragility of the victims but still with the same motives..
You want to fix it then change the laws, heavily fine, jail people etc etc....appealing to their better side or trying educate them is a waste of time IMO. People like Tex Walker have been educated till there is nothing more to teach them but reverted to his natural ways with Robbie Young when he thought it was safe to do so. He needed a justice system that handed him a heavy fine and suspended jail sentence which if he offended again got him a convictionand jail time where he could reeducate himself to his hearts content.
Racist's are Bullies and need appropriate punishment......you have some people feeling sorry for Tex Walker on TV footy shows saying we need to wrap our arms around him???? No wonder Eddie has had enough....
Here is another take, an incident between Syd and Adamson in 1970
From the HS
Syd Jackson and Lee Adamson were central figures in one of footy’s early race rows. Five decades on, they share their stories
Two men at the centre of one of football’s biggest race controversies have met and spoken about the incident for the first time in half a century. This is their powerful story.
Glenn McFarlane
and
Mick McGuane
9 min read
August 13, 2021 - 6:00AM
Lee Adamson was a tough, dashing Collingwood defender in the late 1960s and ’70s, who rarely showed outward displays of emotion.
But five decades on from his 96-game VFL career, the 75-year-old was brought to tears at a reunion with Carlton’s Indigenous great Syd Jackson as the one-time adversaries met for the first time since being a part of one of footy’s first big race controversies.
In a tribunal appearance following the 1970 second semi-final between Carlton and Collingwood, Jackson said he had struck Adamson because the Magpie backman had made a racial slur towards him.
Adamson hadn’t.
In Carlton’s desire to beat the charge and keep Jackson’s finals hopes alive, then Blues president George Harris instructed him to present an “extreme provocation” defence — even if it wasn’t true.
Jackson, now 77, has unquestionably encountered all manner of racism throughout his life and during his football career, but not in this instance, and never by Adamson.
It would take more than 20 years for Jackson — one of the AFL’s most revered Indigenous leaders and an Indigenous Team of the Century member — to correct the wrong, saying Adamson hadn’t racially vilified him.
It was only recently, just before Melbourne’s lockdown, that the two players were reunited by the Herald Sun and Jackson was able to finally apologise to Adamson in person.
While Adamson has never wanted to dwell on the incident, and doesn’t blame Jackson for what happened, the reminders have never been far away.
Even when Collingwood’s Do Better Report into “systemic racism” at the club was leaked earlier this year, he had to defend himself when one media organisation erroneously stated that he had racially abused Jackson.
He wrote to the organisation to right the wrong, but never received a reply or a retraction.
But Adamson’s tears when he met Jackson recently were about injustices far more important than his own.
Four of Adamson’s 11 grandchildren are Indigenous, and he wants them to grow up in a world where they don’t have to experience what Jackson has had to endure in his journey.
EARLY YEARS
Adamson grew up in a loving family in Greensborough, on the outskirts of Melbourne, with his dad a local footy legend and his mum “a feminist before her time”.
Jackson doesn’t know his actual birthdate, doesn’t know his real birth name, and he never really knew his parents — camel trainer Scotty Tulloch and his partner Amy — or his older sisters Marjorie and Jean.
He saw his sisters again many years later, but they met almost as strangers.
Born near the gold mining town of Leonora in Western Australia, Syd was one of the Stolen Generation, taken from his family when he was only three years old.
“I was thrown on a truck,” Jackson explained. “I was going down town to have an ice cream and the truck just kept going.”
Jackson was moved about on several occasions before he ended up at Roelands Mission, near Bunbury, where he remained until he was old enough to leave at 15.
It was almost “slave labour”, with the children forced to work for hours before and after school.
“You would be out of bed at six in the morning, milk the cows, feed the pigs and you would also do the cooking and housework,” he said.
Footy was Jackson’s release.
“The mission kids loved it,” he said. “The town kids … couldn’t catch us … barefoot and all.”
Jackson made his senior debut for South Bunbury at 16 and within a few years he was playing with East Perth in the WAFL, winning the club’s 1966 best-and-fairest.
He was invited to join Carlton in the VFL, even if he couldn’t get a clearance in his first year in Melbourne. That meant he was the team’s runner in 1968, when the Blues won the premiership.
In 1969, the highly-skilled Jackson burst onto the VFL scene as the competition’s only Indigenous player that season, with the kids left behind at Roelands tuning in on the radio to listen to his exploits.
THE INCIDENT
Adamson was in his fifth VFL season with Collingwood when he played on Jackson the first time — in Round 8, 1970.
“I remember because he was cutting us up,” Adamson recalled.
“I was a verbaliser, that’s the way I played. I would be saying to Syd: ‘Are you going to get the ball or are you going to hang out?’. I did it to everyone. If someone whacked me, then I got whacked.”
But Adamson’s verbalising was never about race.
The incident that would forever link the pair came in the 1970 second semi-final.
Carlton captain John Nicholls took a mark just outside the goalsquare, but the ball spilt free.
Jackson went to pick it up when Adamson threw his boot out at his opponent’s outstretched hands.
“He went to pick it up and I went bang,” Adamson recounted. “I gave him a little touch up on his hand, which wasn’t very nice.
“So he clipped my jaw and I went down like a bag of s---.”
Jackson added: “It was just a spur of the moment thing and I was reported for it.”
Collingwood won the game by 10 points to advance to the grand final. Jackson had been reported for striking, and Adamson for charging him in an earlier incident.
Their next showdown would be at the tribunal.
TRIBUNAL
Harris and the Blues knew if they could plead provocation, they could potentially save Jackson’s season.
“Carlton made up a story that I was provoked,” Jackson said. “It wasn’t anything against you, Lee, but they were very concerned I would miss (the grand final).”
“(Harris) said to me to say (Adamson) called me ‘a black bastard’. I was at the tribunal and they (the Blues advocate) said: ‘Syd, did he (Adamson) refer to the colour of your skin?’. I said, ‘yes, yes, yes’.”
Adamson and Collingwood were not happy he had been wrongly accused of making a racist comment.
“I knew I hadn’t racially abused Syd,” Adamson said. “I’ve never been a racist.
“They pulled a story to get him to play in the Grand Final. He (Harris) was a cunning bloody bloke. I didn’t like George much anyway.”
Five decades on, Adamson doesn’t hold the incident against Jackson, although he has previously said he despised Harris.
“If I had been in the same spot as Syd, I probably would have gone to any lengths to play in a grand final, too,” Adamson said.
“I copped it a bit (after the tribunal hearing). I would always be reminded of it over the years. But I knew that my mother and father brought me up the right way.
“They always said race, colour and religion never mattered. That’s how I’ve always lived.”
As much as he still harbours some guilt, Jackson believes if he hadn’t been told to go with Harris’s ruse, he might have been suspended and missed the grand final.
“I got a sympathy vote,” he said.
Both players were cleared, but the stigma stuck with Adamson.
Jackson went on to kick six goals in a blistering performance against St Kilda in the preliminary final.
A rematch with Collingwood — and Adamson — beckoned.
1970 GRAND FINAL
Jackson can still reel off the exact crowd number of the 1970 grand final crowd — 121,696 — like someone else might reel off a phone number.
It remains the greatest attendance at a VFL-AFL match and was one of the most famous premiership playoffs.
Adamson shook hands with Jackson before the start of the game, but neither said a word to each other.
“We shook hands and that was it, we just played,” Jackson recalled.
“To both of our credit, there was no hijinks. We had been through that (tribunal) stuff,” Adamson said.
“You didn’t want to do anything stupid and have to live with that for the rest of your days.
“I tried to stop him from kicking a goal, which I failed at, because he kicked one and he gave another off (to Ted Hopkins).”
Collingwood’s Do Better report into claims of “systemic racism”, released earlier this year, cited a moment in the game when Jackson was booed by Magpies supporters.
The report referred to a Channel 9 commentator who said: “I don’t like this crowd booing. Bad sportsmanship from Australians to boo on an occasion like this because this fellow (Jackson) is a coloured man, we know, but he is entitled to every bit of respect that anybody’s allowed.”
Jackson says if there was booing that day … “I don’t think they were booing me.”
“I don’t know whether it was just me or whether it was directed at Carlton.
“Anyway, booing in general used to just fire me up even more.”
HALFTIME ENDEAVOUR
Collingwood led by 44 points at halftime, or as Adamson puts it, “by six goals eight”.
That referenced the Magpies’ wayward kicking for goal, even if they looked to have the game well within their grasp.
As champagne corks were being popped by eager Collingwood supporters, there was plenty of action in the Carlton rooms.
Blues coach Ron Barassi was about to turn the game — and the code — on its head, urging his players to “handball, handball, handball” and to take risks.
Jackson recalled the master coach trying to emphasise three key points: “Endeavour, encourage and enthusiasm.”
“‘Barass’ said, ‘How am I going to explain this to you, Syd? Endeavour, it’s like Captain Cook (The Endeavour had been the ship Cook sailed to Australia in 1770),” Jackson said.
“I said, ‘Yeah, Barass, he was the bastard that pinched the land off us’.”
Jackson’s joke on a serious subject loosened the mood. He likes to think it played a small role in Carlton’s stunning second-half comeback.
“Some of the guys had a giggle and other blokes started laughing,” Jackson recounted.
“Even Barassi laughed. I think it broke the tension a bit. Maybe it helped us, I reckon it did, anyway.”
Ted Hopkins came off the bench and went on to kick four goals in the second half.
Adamson recalled of the second half: “They (Carlton) were running all over the joint and coming down in waves. I didn’t know whether to run up to meet them or stay back on Syd”.
Carlton swept over the top of a stunned Collingwood, winning a memorable premiership by 10 points.
Jackson was a VFL premiership player and he would go on to win another flag two years later.
This was a second grand final heartache for Adamson, who also played in the Magpies’ one-point loss to St Kilda in 1966.
“You had two chances in grand finals, Syd, and you got two out of two,” Adamson said. “I had two chances and got nothing out of it.”
THE FUTURE
Adamson always admired Jackson’s journey from afar, despite their differences in 1970.
Both dearly love watching the modern wave of AFL Indigenous champions, even if they concede the game — and society — has a long way to go to right the wrongs of the past.
Adamson has become a loving grandfather to four Indigenous children: Keysha (13), Shianne (11), Shyleeka (10) and Steven (8).
“Their mum ... was unable to take care of them,” he said.
“My daughter-in-law Kate is a social worker up in Bendigo and she promised to look after the kids.
“They already had three kids of their own, so the house is active, but they have lots of fun.”
Jackson’s face beams when he hears Adamson’s heartwarming story for the first time.
“That’s just a fantastic story,” Jackson says.
Tears streamed down Adamson’s face.
This wasn’t about what happened to him 51 years ago; it’s about what has happened to Indigenous people across the centuries and what still happens too frequently now.
“I am not angry at Syd; I understand what he did (at the tribunal),” he said.
“But I am bloody angry about what we have done to Aboriginal people in this country.
“We took their land and gave them nothing.
“We never got that history when we were growing up. We only got the white man’s history.
“We have still got a long way to go as a society.”
At that point, Jackson’s hand reaches across the table to shake Adamson’s hand, just as they did before the 1970 grand final.
Here is another take, an incident between Syd and Adamson in 1970
From the HS
Syd Jackson and Lee Adamson were central figures in one of footy’s early race rows. Five decades on, they share their stories
Two men at the centre of one of football’s biggest race controversies have met and spoken about the incident for the first time in half a century. This is their powerful story.
Glenn McFarlane
and
Mick McGuane
9 min read
August 13, 2021 - 6:00AM
Lee Adamson was a tough, dashing Collingwood defender in the late 1960s and ’70s, who rarely showed outward displays of emotion.
But five decades on from his 96-game VFL career, the 75-year-old was brought to tears at a reunion with Carlton’s Indigenous great Syd Jackson as the one-time adversaries met for the first time since being a part of one of footy’s first big race controversies.
In a tribunal appearance following the 1970 second semi-final between Carlton and Collingwood, Jackson said he had struck Adamson because the Magpie backman had made a racial slur towards him.
Adamson hadn’t.
In Carlton’s desire to beat the charge and keep Jackson’s finals hopes alive, then Blues president George Harris instructed him to present an “extreme provocation” defence — even if it wasn’t true.
Jackson, now 77, has unquestionably encountered all manner of racism throughout his life and during his football career, but not in this instance, and never by Adamson.
It would take more than 20 years for Jackson — one of the AFL’s most revered Indigenous leaders and an Indigenous Team of the Century member — to correct the wrong, saying Adamson hadn’t racially vilified him.
It was only recently, just before Melbourne’s lockdown, that the two players were reunited by the Herald Sun and Jackson was able to finally apologise to Adamson in person.
While Adamson has never wanted to dwell on the incident, and doesn’t blame Jackson for what happened, the reminders have never been far away.
Even when Collingwood’s Do Better Report into “systemic racism” at the club was leaked earlier this year, he had to defend himself when one media organisation erroneously stated that he had racially abused Jackson.
He wrote to the organisation to right the wrong, but never received a reply or a retraction.
But Adamson’s tears when he met Jackson recently were about injustices far more important than his own.
Four of Adamson’s 11 grandchildren are Indigenous, and he wants them to grow up in a world where they don’t have to experience what Jackson has had to endure in his journey.
EARLY YEARS
Adamson grew up in a loving family in Greensborough, on the outskirts of Melbourne, with his dad a local footy legend and his mum “a feminist before her time”.
Jackson doesn’t know his actual birthdate, doesn’t know his real birth name, and he never really knew his parents — camel trainer Scotty Tulloch and his partner Amy — or his older sisters Marjorie and Jean.
He saw his sisters again many years later, but they met almost as strangers.
Born near the gold mining town of Leonora in Western Australia, Syd was one of the Stolen Generation, taken from his family when he was only three years old.
“I was thrown on a truck,” Jackson explained. “I was going down town to have an ice cream and the truck just kept going.”
Jackson was moved about on several occasions before he ended up at Roelands Mission, near Bunbury, where he remained until he was old enough to leave at 15.
It was almost “slave labour”, with the children forced to work for hours before and after school.
“You would be out of bed at six in the morning, milk the cows, feed the pigs and you would also do the cooking and housework,” he said.
Footy was Jackson’s release.
“The mission kids loved it,” he said. “The town kids … couldn’t catch us … barefoot and all.”
Jackson made his senior debut for South Bunbury at 16 and within a few years he was playing with East Perth in the WAFL, winning the club’s 1966 best-and-fairest.
He was invited to join Carlton in the VFL, even if he couldn’t get a clearance in his first year in Melbourne. That meant he was the team’s runner in 1968, when the Blues won the premiership.
In 1969, the highly-skilled Jackson burst onto the VFL scene as the competition’s only Indigenous player that season, with the kids left behind at Roelands tuning in on the radio to listen to his exploits.
THE INCIDENT
Adamson was in his fifth VFL season with Collingwood when he played on Jackson the first time — in Round 8, 1970.
“I remember because he was cutting us up,” Adamson recalled.
“I was a verbaliser, that’s the way I played. I would be saying to Syd: ‘Are you going to get the ball or are you going to hang out?’. I did it to everyone. If someone whacked me, then I got whacked.”
But Adamson’s verbalising was never about race.
The incident that would forever link the pair came in the 1970 second semi-final.
Carlton captain John Nicholls took a mark just outside the goalsquare, but the ball spilt free.
Jackson went to pick it up when Adamson threw his boot out at his opponent’s outstretched hands.
“He went to pick it up and I went bang,” Adamson recounted. “I gave him a little touch up on his hand, which wasn’t very nice.
“So he clipped my jaw and I went down like a bag of s---.”
Jackson added: “It was just a spur of the moment thing and I was reported for it.”
Collingwood won the game by 10 points to advance to the grand final. Jackson had been reported for striking, and Adamson for charging him in an earlier incident.
Their next showdown would be at the tribunal.
TRIBUNAL
Harris and the Blues knew if they could plead provocation, they could potentially save Jackson’s season.
“Carlton made up a story that I was provoked,” Jackson said. “It wasn’t anything against you, Lee, but they were very concerned I would miss (the grand final).”
“(Harris) said to me to say (Adamson) called me ‘a black bastard’. I was at the tribunal and they (the Blues advocate) said: ‘Syd, did he (Adamson) refer to the colour of your skin?’. I said, ‘yes, yes, yes’.”
Adamson and Collingwood were not happy he had been wrongly accused of making a racist comment.
“I knew I hadn’t racially abused Syd,” Adamson said. “I’ve never been a racist.
“They pulled a story to get him to play in the Grand Final. He (Harris) was a cunning bloody bloke. I didn’t like George much anyway.”
Five decades on, Adamson doesn’t hold the incident against Jackson, although he has previously said he despised Harris.
“If I had been in the same spot as Syd, I probably would have gone to any lengths to play in a grand final, too,” Adamson said.
“I copped it a bit (after the tribunal hearing). I would always be reminded of it over the years. But I knew that my mother and father brought me up the right way.
“They always said race, colour and religion never mattered. That’s how I’ve always lived.”
As much as he still harbours some guilt, Jackson believes if he hadn’t been told to go with Harris’s ruse, he might have been suspended and missed the grand final.
“I got a sympathy vote,” he said.
Both players were cleared, but the stigma stuck with Adamson.
Jackson went on to kick six goals in a blistering performance against St Kilda in the preliminary final.
A rematch with Collingwood — and Adamson — beckoned.
1970 GRAND FINAL
Jackson can still reel off the exact crowd number of the 1970 grand final crowd — 121,696 — like someone else might reel off a phone number.
It remains the greatest attendance at a VFL-AFL match and was one of the most famous premiership playoffs.
Adamson shook hands with Jackson before the start of the game, but neither said a word to each other.
“We shook hands and that was it, we just played,” Jackson recalled.
“To both of our credit, there was no hijinks. We had been through that (tribunal) stuff,” Adamson said.
“You didn’t want to do anything stupid and have to live with that for the rest of your days.
“I tried to stop him from kicking a goal, which I failed at, because he kicked one and he gave another off (to Ted Hopkins).”
Collingwood’s Do Better report into claims of “systemic racism”, released earlier this year, cited a moment in the game when Jackson was booed by Magpies supporters.
The report referred to a Channel 9 commentator who said: “I don’t like this crowd booing. Bad sportsmanship from Australians to boo on an occasion like this because this fellow (Jackson) is a coloured man, we know, but he is entitled to every bit of respect that anybody’s allowed.”
Jackson says if there was booing that day … “I don’t think they were booing me.”
“I don’t know whether it was just me or whether it was directed at Carlton.
“Anyway, booing in general used to just fire me up even more.”
HALFTIME ENDEAVOUR
Collingwood led by 44 points at halftime, or as Adamson puts it, “by six goals eight”.
That referenced the Magpies’ wayward kicking for goal, even if they looked to have the game well within their grasp.
As champagne corks were being popped by eager Collingwood supporters, there was plenty of action in the Carlton rooms.
Blues coach Ron Barassi was about to turn the game — and the code — on its head, urging his players to “handball, handball, handball” and to take risks.
Jackson recalled the master coach trying to emphasise three key points: “Endeavour, encourage and enthusiasm.”
“‘Barass’ said, ‘How am I going to explain this to you, Syd? Endeavour, it’s like Captain Cook (The Endeavour had been the ship Cook sailed to Australia in 1770),” Jackson said.
“I said, ‘Yeah, Barass, he was the bastard that pinched the land off us’.”
Jackson’s joke on a serious subject loosened the mood. He likes to think it played a small role in Carlton’s stunning second-half comeback.
“Some of the guys had a giggle and other blokes started laughing,” Jackson recounted.
“Even Barassi laughed. I think it broke the tension a bit. Maybe it helped us, I reckon it did, anyway.”
Ted Hopkins came off the bench and went on to kick four goals in the second half.
Adamson recalled of the second half: “They (Carlton) were running all over the joint and coming down in waves. I didn’t know whether to run up to meet them or stay back on Syd”.
Carlton swept over the top of a stunned Collingwood, winning a memorable premiership by 10 points.
Jackson was a VFL premiership player and he would go on to win another flag two years later.
This was a second grand final heartache for Adamson, who also played in the Magpies’ one-point loss to St Kilda in 1966.
“You had two chances in grand finals, Syd, and you got two out of two,” Adamson said. “I had two chances and got nothing out of it.”
THE FUTURE
Adamson always admired Jackson’s journey from afar, despite their differences in 1970.
Both dearly love watching the modern wave of AFL Indigenous champions, even if they concede the game — and society — has a long way to go to right the wrongs of the past.
Adamson has become a loving grandfather to four Indigenous children: Keysha (13), Shianne (11), Shyleeka (10) and Steven (8).
“Their mum ... was unable to take care of them,” he said.
“My daughter-in-law Kate is a social worker up in Bendigo and she promised to look after the kids.
“They already had three kids of their own, so the house is active, but they have lots of fun.”
Jackson’s face beams when he hears Adamson’s heartwarming story for the first time.
“That’s just a fantastic story,” Jackson says.
Tears streamed down Adamson’s face.
This wasn’t about what happened to him 51 years ago; it’s about what has happened to Indigenous people across the centuries and what still happens too frequently now.
“I am not angry at Syd; I understand what he did (at the tribunal),” he said.
“But I am bloody angry about what we have done to Aboriginal people in this country.
“We took their land and gave them nothing.
“We never got that history when we were growing up. We only got the white man’s history.
“We have still got a long way to go as a society.”
At that point, Jackson’s hand reaches across the table to shake Adamson’s hand, just as they did before the 1970 grand final.
I remember that history vividly. Odd how things stay with you.