https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/more-sports/blues-great-whacks-biggest-flaw-haunting-carlton/ar-AAOZHwy?ocid=msedgntp
"I think most Carlton people would say this: Michael Voss has got to make that team into a selfless football team – they don't know what selfless is, watching that Carlton team," the former Blues list boss said on AFL Trade Radio.
"They don't sacrifice for each other, they don't help each other, they need to become a selfless team.
This goes far far back.
Some key moments in history to remind people of our lack of team spirit.
- sMurph arrives, Carlton lets the Lions pulverise him in his first season.
- Fev needs a goal to hit the ton, Carlton leave him one out against half a Dawks team courtesy of The Angry Ant.
- sMurph is on the ground being pounded, team-mates Tuohy and Henderson jog on by, then join the Handbagging offenders!
- We kybosh Mitch Robinson.
- Any week one of our players is targeted by the salacious media, you get crickets from the club!
- The Curnows at the tribunal, thanks Handbagger Dangerflog!
- Plowman at the tribunal, thanks Handbagger Hocking and MRP Christian
- Every game our defence is left outnumbered by opposition, while our Mids and Forwards roam outside D50 waiting for a turnover!
In any given week we often have less than a handful of players who sacrifice regularly, Walsh, Weitering, SoJ, Jones, Plowman, Ed, Doc and Betts might be the only regulars from last season, with some special mentions to Owies and Stocker. But you need the bulk of the team to be doing the right thing, not less than half of it!
I think Plowman is a selfless player. Maybe that's why he plays every game and polls well in the B+F, despite most saying that he sucks.
I think Plowman is a selfless player. Maybe that's why he plays every game and polls well in the B+F, despite most saying that he sucks.
Selfless shouldn't extend to gifting the opposition goals.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/more-sports/blues-great-whacks-biggest-flaw-haunting-carlton/ar-AAOZHwy?ocid=msedgntp
He's not wrong. Been an issue since the century started. Ask 6 coaches.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/10/01/what-decisions-is-he-making-former-teammate-calls-out-saads-playing-style/
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/10/01/what-decisions-is-he-making-former-teammate-calls-out-saads-playing-style/
Teague made no secret of wanting a mostly attacking game plan. Some of the blame has to lie with him. I assume they were more than anything playing to instruction, and Saad was specifically recruited for that attacking half back role. I find it hard to believe that if Teague was telling them to defend more, that after a preseason plus a full season (in Saad's case) or longer in other cases, that the message still wasn't getting through. You can't blame the players for everything.
Next season will be very interesting. Given the sacking and the review, I'm safely assuming that there will be more focus on defence and pressure. We'll get a better idea of the players then.
Teague made no secret of wanting a mostly attacking game plan. Some of the blame has to lie with him. I assume they were more than anything playing to instruction, and Saad was specifically recruited for that attacking half back role. I find it hard to believe that if Teague was telling them to defend more, that after a preseason plus a full season (in Saad's case) or longer in other cases, that the message still wasn't getting through. You can't blame the players for everything.
The expectancy with you have an offensive game plan is they will defend and run the other way when they haven't got the ball. Should be a basic to any player. So, yes, this is on the players. Not sure how it can't be. Wasn't alot of a pre-season last time with COVID to work on much last time anyway.
If noticed when we were switched on we defended well. Pies, the 2nd time, twice with Freo, Geelong, St.Kilda, and the 2nd half against Hawthorn after Teague gave them one almighty half time blast for not defending. The issue was the players simply wouldn't work hard enough to defend, tackle and run two ways, only doing it when they felt like it. Carlton cultural issues. Many coaches over the years here have been telling them things until they were blue in the face and often got donuts.
Of all the coaches since Brittain, I've not heard one lay the blame on player laziness or thick headedness in terms of on field effort. Not one. Pagan certainly had issues with the leaders white anting him, but that's not the same thing.
Our defensive woes were exacerbated by too many turnovers and mistakes resulting in our getting caught flat footed too often in defence. The better skilled teams make fewer errors and so do not get put under the same degree of pressure by opposition teams. Eventually we become demoralised by this and too weary/unmotivated to chase.
Our defensive woes were exacerbated by too many turnovers and mistakes resulting in our getting caught flat footed too often in defence. The better skilled teams make fewer errors and so do not get put under the same degree of pressure by opposition teams. Eventually we become demoralised by this and too weary/unmotivated to chase.
Our blokes get weary after one turnover, but I agree our turnovers are of the basic error type in the main and with our poor manning up its usually options galore for the opposition when they get the ball back and rebound it.
Sometimes we never even touched the ball on its way back down the ground into enemy territory, the Nth game was just a classic example of how bad we can get. I'm big on leadership in this area and your leaders setting the example and not having to wait for a quarter or half time break for the coach to send a rocket to his players.
Our mental application across the board is terrible. And I believe it is rooted in certain individuals who aren't pushed out when they demonstrate that mental fragility. If you can't handle the slightest bit of pressure - and let's be honest Plowman is a good example of one who definitely can't - why pursue it any longer. How are they going to stand up in a GF when the opposition gets a run on when they can't stand up in a regular season game against a bottom 2 team in front of no crowd?
Of all the coaches since Brittain, I've not heard one lay the blame on player laziness or thick headedness in terms of on field effort. Not one. Pagan certainly had issues with the leaders white anting him, but that's not the same thing.
Just because they don't do it publicly doesn't mean they don't cop it between the 4 walls. Thought you'd know that.
Just because they don't do it publicly doesn't mean they don't cop it between the 4 walls. Thought you'd know that.
Plenty of time has passed for Brittain, Pagan, Ratten and I would argue Malthouse, for them to let fly if they wish. Pagan and Malthouse have criticised the club plenty, but never said a word about lazy players who refuse to run both ways.
Plenty of time has passed for Brittain, Pagan, Ratten and I would argue Malthouse, for them to let fly if they wish. Pagan and Malthouse have criticised the club plenty, but never said a word about lazy players who refuse to run both ways.
We have lazy players who refuse to run one way, got flogged by the bottom team with some of the laziest footy we have seen for years and then you see Gawn running all the way down back to help his defenders and we wonder why we are so poor at times.
Nth were kicking goals without our blokes touching the ball, this is Nth the bottom team...Voss wouldnt want to watch a replay of that Nth game he might want his job back at Port.
Plenty of time has passed for Brittain, Pagan, Ratten and I would argue Malthouse, for them to let fly if they wish. Pagan and Malthouse have criticised the club plenty, but never said a word about lazy players who refuse to run both ways.
Suddenly it's all the coaches fault now?
You know as well as I do they players don't often get criticised by a coach. Teague gave them a mighty blast at half time against Hawthorn for not defending properly. Memory failed you? Other coaches, like Bolton, set up a defensive game. Even then they wouldn't defend properly and we took some of the mother of all hidings as we weren't scoring.
Just get fit, learn how to freakin' kick and if you squib it, p1ss off
Just get fit, learn how to freakin' kick and if you squib it, p1ss off
You got the job, when can you start!
Just mentioned on trade radio - SOS thinks Plowman is under pressure this year after a poor 2021.
Just mentioned on trade radio - SOS thinks Plowman is under pressure this year after a poor 2021.
Signed a three year deal in 2020....dont think he is going anywhere.
Signed a three year deal in 2020....dont think he is going anywhere.
Obviously after he departed.
Obviously after he departed.
Only him,Marchbank and Setterfield left from the GWS players that SOS recruited on mass......he will probably be the only one left in 12 months time unless a few miracles happen with the other two.
Matthew Kennedy also ex GWS.
I dont know whats going on with SOS, I think hes lost the plot a little bit based on what he is reported as saying.
Plowman is possibly the 3rd name on the team sheet every week.
He's pretty clueless sometimes ....
Just mentioned on trade radio - SOS thinks Plowman is under pressure this year after a poor 2021.
Couldn’t agree more with SOS and I suspect Voss will be quick to agree also.
Hewett or McGovern could replace him in defence and instantly improve our side.
Matthew Kennedy also ex GWS.
Matthew Kennedy also ex GWS.
That he is.. Should have looked at the rookie list. :-[ Probably out of him and Plowman for last GWS player standing...
That he is.. Should have looked at the rookie list. :-[ Probably out of him and Plowman for last GWS player standing...
Voss has runs on the board getting big bodied mids playing good, robust footy at Port. Hopefully he can get Setterfield and Cripps playing to that level, and not just turf Setters without giving him a chance.
Plowman was well regarded by both Bolton and Teague. If Voss gets the team defense sorted, I'm guessing Plowman will be a solid, positive contributor to that. Still not understanding the hate.
I dont know whats going on with SOS, I think hes lost the plot a little bit based on what he is reported as saying.
Plowman is possibly the 3rd name on the team sheet every week.
Everything SOS states has a purpose, it started with a conflict of interest and never ends.
Blood is thicker than water! ;)
Weigh whatever he states in the SoJ is his boy reference frame and it becomes clear!
You would have to hear the SOS comment in context but...
The father of a current player needs to be a bit careful commenting on the form of a teammate.
You would have to hear the SOS comment in context but...
The father of a current player needs to be a bit careful commenting on the form of a teammate.
I agree. The slightest slip of the tongue can very easily cause disharmony and friction among certain players.
Lucky jsos and plow seem to be mates.
You would have to hear the SOS comment in context but...
The father of a current player needs to be a bit careful commenting on the form of a teammate.
Yep 100%.
Always thought of SOS as a self centred guy who will throw anyone under the bus for his gain without a second thought so not surprised he wouldn’t think twice about a comment that potentially makes life that little bit more uncomfortable for son Jack if not in the media definitely in the locker room and socially with the team.
Not needed.
Has SOS again become the Spurned Lover Part II?
He seems to play this bitter former partner role very well!
Embarrasing ...
Lucky jsos and plow seem to be mates.
Isn't that worse?
"So Jack your old man thinks I'm crap."
Isn't that worse?
"So Jack your old man thinks I'm crap."
More easily smoothed out, and Plowman may not understand that inference due to a relationship he has.
So SOS states the blindingly obvious that Plowman has room to improve and the pro-Plowman crew who can't hear a bad word said about the guy (who most impartial observers would rate as in the running for the worst player in the AFL) swing in to batter SOS and relate it to JSOS somehow?
Good to know.
^^
Its not solely about Plow. SOS has been ultra negative about Carlton since he copped it in the neck, and actively denigrates anything Carlton associated.
He's been breathing fire ever since he was laid off, and I would have thought that Lo Giudice out, and Liddle gone would have been the majority of his detractors at the place off line.
^^
Its not solely about Plow. SOS has been ultra negative about Carlton since he copped it in the neck, and actively denigrates anything Carlton associated.
He's been breathing fire ever since he was laid off, and I would have thought that Lo Giudice out, and Liddle gone would have been the majority of his detractors at the place off line.
A statement based on what exactly? He'll say 20 good things about Carlton and 1 slight negative - which is the bit the "journos" choose to put in a headline the next day?
Re. Samo:
He said many good things about him he's a good user of the ball, good player, etc. but been played out of position. but asked a loaded question about his preparation. What is the headline?
'I wouldn't say he's elite in terms of his preparation': SOS on SPS
If all you heard from SOS was via the headlines that are written you could form your view. But it's just not reality.
............ the pro-Plowman crew majority .....................
Corrected for accuracy.
I'm all for something better than Plowman to play on those inbetween forwards who monster us but I am yet to see that player
on our list. Plowman gets the tough jobs because Weitering and Jones are holding down the fort and the others want to kick chase and avoid defending or in Parks case are too inexperienced and out of their depth.
Get me a Vlastuin or Grimes and we can move Plowman on but from what I can see Kemp is our best bet and he is a couple of years off being able to do the job..
I'm all for something better than Plowman to play on those inbetween forwards who monster us but I am yet to see that player
on our list. Plowman gets the tough jobs because Weitering and Jones are holding down the fort and the others want to kick chase and avoid defending or in Parks case are too inexperienced and out of their depth.
Get me a Vlastuin or Grimes and we can move Plowman on but from what I can see Kemp is our best bet and he is a couple of years off being able to do the job..
Longer term Kemp will be a mid
@ElwoodBlues1 , unless something goes horribly wrong.
The problem that I see is we have too many Plowman / Newman types, it seems to be a trend in our recruiting history, to pick up a shed load of one type of player. Long term only one of Plowman or Newman should survive assuming short term Kemp stays fit, and specially now we've got Hewett.
Will we keep hold of O'Brien, can he progress further in 2022?
If we pick up another KPD, would we release Weitering further up the ground?
Are the rumours that Marchbank is good for Rnd 1 true?
Where does Charlie play?
Do we keep McGovern?
Lots of water to pass under this bridge yet!
Longer term Kemp will be a mid @ElwoodBlues1 , unless something goes horribly wrong.
The problem that I see is we have too many Plowman / Newman types, it seems to be a trend in our recruiting history, to pick up a shed load of one type of player. Long term only one of Plowman or Newman should survive assuming short term Kemp stays fit, and specially now we've got Hewett.
Will we keep hold of O'Brien, can he progress further in 2022?
If we pick up another KPD, would we release Weitering further up the ground?
Are the rumours that Marchbank is good for Rnd 1 true?
Where does Charlie play?
Do we keep McGovern?
Lots of water to pass under this bridge yet!
Watched a bit of Kemp in the U18's and he is your classic Jeremy Howe/Jake Lever type player IMO and will play the half back interceptor role.
Might make a good wingman but why waste him there when he could be doing a more important job down back, dont think he would hold up as a mid as he does pick up injuries and I want that marking ability where it counts.
He was one of the few highlights last season how he came in and showed some coolness down back and is one who seems to be able to defend and also provide some drive. He has some bigger players to mind and stuck to the job well, I'm a real fan and he is a player who gives me some hope.
Watched a bit of Kemp in the U18's and he is your classic Jeremy Howe/Jake Lever type player IMO and will play the half back interceptor role.
Might make a good wingman but why waste him there when he could be doing a more important job down back, dont think he would hold up as a mid as he does pick up injuries and I want that marking ability where it counts.
He was one of the few highlights last season how he came in and showed some coolness down back and is one who seems to be able to defend and also provide some drive. He has some bigger players to mind and stuck to the job well, I'm a real fan and he is a player who gives me some hope.
While I suspect that Kemp's toolkit might be more suited to midfield than Williams's bag of tricks, I think he has the potential to be an outstanding defender. He has a bit of size but is quick and agile and looks confident when under pressure in defence. I think that he would respond well to Vossy/Sammy and could be an integral part of a new defensive structure.
Is the fact that we're recruiting genuine midfielders an indication that we've given up on transforming defenders/forwards into midfielders (and vice versa)?