Herald Sun's Carlton best 22 in 22
B: Stocker Jones Newman
HB: Saad, Weitering, Williams
C: Hewett, Sam Walsh, Dow
HF: J.Martin, C. Curnow, Fisher
F: Silvagni, McKay, E. Curnow
Foll: Pittonet Cripps Cerra
Int: De Koning, Young, McGovern, Newnes
Sub: Setterfield
Emerg: Plowman, Kemp, Honey, Owies
# Sam Docherty will return to the team when he is full healthy.
Crazy selections! Who are your midfielders rotating off the bench? Setterfield ahead of Kemp?
Herald Sun's Carlton best 22 in 22
B: Stocker Jones Newman
HB: Saad, Weitering, Williams
C: Hewett, Sam Walsh, Dow
HF: J.Martin, C. Curnow, Fisher
F: Silvagni, McKay, E. Curnow
Foll: Pittonet Cripps Cerra
Int: De Koning, Young, McGovern, Newnes
Sub: Setterfield
Emerg: Plowman, Kemp, Honey, Owies
# Sam Docherty will return to the team when he is full healthy.
Crazy selections! Who are your midfielders rotating off the bench? Setterfield ahead of Kemp?
Yes, a bit of a rubbish selection, it must be work experience week.
What AFL team has Pittonet, De Koning, Young, McGovern, Cripps, McKay, Charlie, Jones and Weitering all in the one line up! That would be the slowest most lopsided team ever sent on an AFL field is the games history, nine players in or around 200cm!
Kemp and Honey would be in my best 22...along with Durdin.
We have to progress and need our kids to step up and become regulars.
Can't play Pittonet and Young in the same team either unless Young is playing a KP role.
Jack and McGovern are also similar..Jack is my preference..
The backline is too short - no third tall defender (I’m assuming Young couldn’t play that role) so Plowman or Kemp would have to come in.
Ed Curnow has to start in the midfield in a run with role. The only exception would be if we wanted to make a running defender accountable.
If that was a school assignment, the writer would be told to do it again and put some thought into it 🙄
I thought Young was to brought in as a 3rd tall down back.
I read somewhere else that Ed is going to be a pressure forward next year.
I thought Young was to brought in as a 3rd tall down back.
I read somewhere else that Ed is going to be a pressure forward next year.
From what I've seen, Young is a CHB/FB and not agile enough to match up with the players Plowman or Kemp usually get. Could we play Weitering as the third tall? He's good enough to stay with most forwards.
Haven't we tried Ed as a pressure forward before?
He's our best run with player and I think he should be used as such until Hewett takes over.
I thought Young was to brought in as a 3rd tall down back.
I read somewhere else that Ed is going to be a pressure forward next year.
I would like to think Young may be able to do a lockdown job, allowing Weitering to become more of a Lever/Stewart/Haynes/Jonas quarterback role.
From what I've seen, Young is a CHB/FB and not agile enough to match up with the players Plowman or Kemp usually get. Could we play Weitering as the third tall? He's good enough to stay with most forwards.
Haven't we tried Ed as a pressure forward before?
He's our best run with player and I think he should be used as such until Hewett takes over.
Our club is genuinely back to front, most club's let the old blokes play a role and let them do lockdowns roles in D50, like FB or the BP!
We get our oldest blokes and let them get smashed and run-off their feet inside our F50!
I'd go with...
B Nic Newman Jacob Weitering Zac Williams
HB Mitch McGovern Liam Jones Adam Saad
M George Hewett Patrick Cripps Zac Fisher
HF Josh Honey Charlie Curnow Jack Martin
F Tom De Koning Harry McKay Jack Silvagni
R Marc Pittonet Adam Cerra Sam Walsh
I Liam Stocker Matthew Kennedy Ed Curnow
Paddy Dow
I'd go with...
B Nic Newman Jacob Weitering Zac Williams
HB Mitch McGovern Liam Jones Adam Saad
M George Hewett Patrick Cripps Zac Fisher
HF Josh Honey Charlie Curnow Jack Martin
F Tom De Koning Harry McKay Jack Silvagni
R Marc Pittonet Adam Cerra Sam Walsh
I Liam Stocker Matthew Kennedy Ed Curnow
Paddy Dow
I think that is still a bit too top heavy, a 1980s style line up, especially that FF line, you need a genuine small on that line, Owies, Fisher, Philp or Durdin type.
Also the interchange isn't functional, no chance Stocker isn't a starter after last season, more like Williams would be off the bench than Stocker. You probably start McGovern or De Koning on the bench as well, it's not a bad line up.
Perhaps you don't have Pittonet, Walsh, Cripps and Cerra all in the midfield as once, that is a bit of a slow mix. You probably need to swapped one out for a Dow, Williams or Saad, or flip the rucks around and have De Koning with the slow mix and Pittonet with the runners.
Cunningham seems to be a forgotten entity with fans, how quickly some seem to move on! :o If he is ready to go I'm not sure Kennedy and Ed get a start in 2022!
Why would Cuningham be a replacement for Ed and/or Kennedy ? I see him more as a pacy, outside finisher than an inside grunt mid.
Why would Cuningham be a replacement for Ed and/or Kennedy ? I see him more as a pacy, outside finisher than an inside grunt mid.
If you already have Cripps, Walsh, Cerra and perhaps even Hewett in the grunt midfield mix rotations, you need complimentary pace in there. Starting with too many slows in the mid at once dooms you to losing momentum. So we need to find a way to keep some pace in their along side players like Cripps and Walsh.
Kennedy and Ed might be better as rotations with Cripps and Walsh, not in rotations with the running types that surround them.
How you then do that, off the bench or out of the FP or BP is up to the coaches to manage, but at least commit to being competitive or holding ground in all rotations so the momentum doesn't swing violently.
While I was all for Teague's game style, one of my big criticisms of his setup last year was that too often we ended up with all slows or all skinnies in the midfield. It can't happen, it makes it too easy for opponents to counter our tactics.
Some examples, Nic Nat or Blicavs ruck against De Koning, both are heavier and stronger than De Koning. We have Cripps, Walsh and Ed at ground level around De Koning. Nic Nat or Blicavs can win the ruck and still beat Cripps, Walsh and Ed to the footy over 10m! Ignoring that we won, in the 3rd Qtr against Freo Sean Darcy cleans up our ruck and takes out Fogarty and Dow, leaving Freo with the numbers, Mundy, Brayshaw and Cerra get an armchair ride basically against Cripps on his lonesome! All this comes because of an imbalance in the rotations. Getting it right is critical, they have to be on the park, in the right spot, at the right time!
If you already have Cripps, Walsh, Cerra and perhaps even Hewett in the grunt midfield mix, you need pace in there. Starting with too many slows in the mid at once dooms you to losing momentum. So we need to find a way to keep some pace in their along side players like Cripps and Walsh.
Kennedy and Ed might be better as rotations with Cripps and Walsh, not in rotations with the running types that surround them.
How you then do that, off the bench or out of the FP or BP is up to the coaches to manage, but at least commit to being competitive or holding ground in all rotations so the momentum doesn't swing violently.
Right, but that's more about list balance, as opposed to three players competing for the same spot ? Clearly you need a mix of players who defend and those who attack, a mix of talls and smalls, a mix of inside and outside etc. ? IMO, Kennedy and Ed would be kept out of the side by Cripps, Hewett etc., and not Cuningham.
If you already have Cripps, Walsh, Cerra and perhaps even Hewett in the grunt midfield mix rotations, you need complimentary pace in there. Starting with too many slows in the mid at once dooms you to losing momentum. So we need to find a way to keep some pace in their along side players like Cripps and Walsh.
Kennedy and Ed might be better as rotations with Cripps and Walsh, not in rotations with the running types that surround them.
How you then do that, off the bench or out of the FP or BP is up to the coaches to manage, but at least commit to being competitive or holding ground in all rotations so the momentum doesn't swing violently.
While I was all for Teague's game style, one of my big criticisms of his setup last year was that too often we ended up with all slows or all skinnies in the midfield. It can't happen, it makes it too easy for opponents to counter our tactics.
Some examples, Nic Nat or Blicavs ruck against De Koning, both are heavier and stronger than De Koning. We have Cripps, Walsh and Ed at ground level around De Koning. Nic Nat or Blicavs can win the ruck and still beat Cripps, Walsh and Ed to the footy over 10m!
The midfield will be rotated no doubt. But we have a LOT of slow midfielders. They will all need to be given time in there. I just hope Stocker is given plenty of time in the midfield.
Right, but that's more about list balance, as opposed to three players competing for the same spot ? Clearly you need a mix of players who defend and those who attack, a mix of talls and smalls, a mix of inside and outside etc. ? IMO, Kennedy and Ed would be kept out of the side by Cripps, Hewett etc., and not Cuningham.
I disagree, and I think in the weeks after Barker got kyboshed we saw a positive change under Power's guidance, things were far better balanced even if it was left up to some more erratic players in Dow and Kennedy.
I think based on what we saw early last season, if he is ready to go, Cunnigham will be comfortably in the side and rightly so, and he'll be in there at the expense of a slower Mid, not at the expense of a zippy SF or HB!
Anyway, I realise my position on this is based on some list philosophy that some will find uncomfortable, as we have already debated.
Cunningham will need to be eased back in after a knee, can't see him impacting early in the year, but we need his pace and spread.
Newnes, Newman, Setterfield, Ed... Those types are going to get phased out as the season progesses in favour of younger, quicker options IMO
I'd go with...
B Nic Newman Jacob Weitering Zac Williams
HB Mitch McGovern Liam Jones Adam Saad
M George Hewett Patrick Cripps Zac Fisher
HF Josh Honey Charlie Curnow Jack Martin
F Tom De Koning Harry McKay Jack Silvagni
R Marc Pittonet Adam Cerra Sam Walsh
I Liam Stocker Matthew Kennedy Ed Curnow
Paddy Dow
This is a bit more realistic than the team printed above.
I'd go with...
B Nic Newman Jacob Weitering Zac Williams
HB Mitch McGovern Liam Jones Adam Saad
M George Hewett Patrick Cripps Zac Fisher
HF Josh Honey Charlie Curnow Jack Martin
F Tom De Koning Harry McKay Jack Silvagni
R Marc Pittonet Adam Cerra Sam Walsh
I Liam Stocker Matthew Kennedy Ed Curnow
Paddy Dow
I would have Stocker, Kennedy, Dow and even Setterfield ahead of Fisher in the mids. Fisher needs to develop further as a pressure half-forward if he wants regular game time.
FB: Stocker - Weitering - Marchbank** **Plowman plays if Marchbank is not up to it.
HB: Newman - Jones - Saad
C: Williams - Cripps - Walsh
HF: Martin - C. Curnow - Cuningham
FF: Silvagni - McKay - Fisher
R: Pittonet - Cerra - Dow
INT: Young - Hewitt - Kennedy - TDK
Sub: E. Curnow
EMG: Plowman - Honey - Owies
Next in line....
McGovern - Kemp - Setterfield
Newnes - LOB - Fogarty
Williamson - Durdin - Cottrell
...
I would have Stocker, Kennedy, Dow and even Setterfield ahead of Fisher in the mids. Fisher needs to develop further as a pressure half-forward if he wants regular game time.
Fisher isnt a natural forward, he made his name as a U18 midfielder and was recruited on that basis, I find it odd we try and turn players into something else and ignore recruiting specialists for specialist areas.
I think Honey and Durdin are natural small forwards and need the time in those positions to develop. I like Fisher and think he is a good footballer but I wonder in the modern game which requires mids with speed and power in the main, other than the wing where can you play him.
B Saad Jones Kemp
HB Williams Weitering Hewett
C Dow Stocker Cerra
HF Martin C. Curnow Honey
F Silvagni McKay Durdin
R TDK, Cripps, Walsh
Int Young, Fogarty, E Curnow, Kennedy
B McGovern Jones Saad
HB Williams Weitering Hewett
C Cunningham Cripps Dow
HF Honey Curnow Martin
F Durdin McKay Silvagni
R TDK Walsh Stocker
Young, Cerra, Kemp, E Curnow
Emerg Pittonet, Fisher, Marchbank
Depth Williamson, lob, owies Kennedy setterfield fogarty philp carroll McDonald Plowman Newnes Newman
Fisher isnt a natural forward, he made his name as a U18 midfielder and was recruited on that basis, I find it odd we try and turn players into something else and ignore recruiting specialists for specialist areas.
I think Honey and Durdin are natural small forwards and need the time in those positions to develop. I like Fisher and think he is a good footballer but I wonder in the modern game which requires mids with speed and power in the main, other than the wing where can you play him.
The reality is that not all draftees will get to play in the same position as they did through their underage years, especially those that are on the smaller side. I just don't think Zac has enough size to consistently play as a midfielder - not just height, but also physical power.
I would suggest that he and Jack Martin should be looking to wax the role of high half-forward with the odd stint in the middle.
And if I were Zac, I would spend some of my summer hours at Melbourne Storm and learn how to tackle consistently.
The reality is that not all draftees will get to play in the same position as they did through their underage years, especially those that are on the smaller side. I just don't think Zac has enough size to consistently play as a midfielder - not just height, but also physical power.
I would suggest that he and Jack Martin should be looking to wax the role of high half-forward with the odd stint in the middle.
And if I were Zac, I would spend some of my summer hours at Melbourne Storm and learn how to tackle consistently.
Fair points and I think same about size and power. The other issue I have with him as a forward is his lack of marking ability. Most of the good small forwards can take a decent mark and have that as a weapon or have that express pace.
In think he is trouble with Honey and Durdin now in the frame for selection too and view them as more natural forwards.
Martin is a talent but needs to contribute more than he does...
Fair points and I think same about size and power. The other issue I have with him as a forward is his lack of marking ability. Most of the good small forwards can take a decent mark and have that as a weapon or have that express pace.
In think he is trouble with Honey and Durdin now in the frame for selection too and view them as more natural forwards.
Martin is a talent but needs to contribute more than he does...
One thing Zac Fisher has above the others is he is a quick thinker.
Remember Murphys game winning goal against Freo? Have a look at how he got that ball.
Not many others would've thought to do that, nor been able to execute.
Its little touches like that which made Eddie so good.
Fisher gets overlooked for that kind of creativity because it doesn't show up on the stats sheet and its hard to see from 80m away in the stands.
Its little touches like that which made Eddie so good.
Fisher gets overlooked for that kind of creativity because it doesn't show up on the stats sheet and its hard to see from 80m away in the stands.
I agree.
But as an aside, to me that is not really the problem with Fisher, as good as he can be in that small forward role it looks to me like he doesn't want to be there!
I agree.
But as an aside, to me that is not really the problem with Fisher, as good as he can be in that small forward role it looks to me like he doesn't want to be there!
Didn't want to be there, but came around to it.
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Had this convo about 20 times. Check our Making Their Mark on amazon prime.
I know what was said, but to me it's a body language thing, he plays that role without joy or celebration.
Maybe it's just his way, but I think he is just not as invested in the team as he once was, it could of course be related to carrying injuries.
I like no. 6's (Jon Dorotich) side... just a coupla minor changes for mine:
B McGovern Jones Saad
HB Newman Weitering Kemp
C Cunningham Cripps Cerra
HF Honey Curnow Martin
F Durdin McKay Silvagni
R TDK Walsh Stocker
Int: Young, Williams, Hewett, E Curnow
Emerg: from, Pittonet, Dow, Williamson, Fisher, Marchbank, LOB, Carrol, Plowman & Fisher
Depth: Owies Setterfield Fogarty Philp McDonald Newnes
I've gone for a tall line-up to match Melbourne's seven talls:
B: Weitering Jones Newman
HB: Plowman Young Saad
C: Dow E Curnow Cerra
HF: Martin C Curnow De Koning
F: Silvagni McKay Owies
R: Pittonet, Cripps, Walsh
Int: Stocker, Kemp, Williams, Hewett
Emerg: Fisher, Fogarty, Williamson
I've gone for a tall line-up to match Melbourne's seven talls:
B: Weitering Jones Newman
HB: Plowman Young Saad
C: Dow E Curnow Cerra
HF: Martin C Curnow De Koning
F: Silvagni McKay Owies
R: Pittonet, Cripps, Walsh
Int: Stocker, Kemp, Williams, Hewett
Emerg: Fisher, Fogarty, Williamson
I'd probably start Stocker and run TDK and/or Young off the bench, but I quite like the look of that list, just a few positional shuffles for me to get some run into the midfield.
I know what was said, but to me it's a body language thing, he plays that role without joy or celebration.
Maybe it's just his way, but I think he is just not as invested in the team as he once was, it could of course be related to carrying injuries.
You do realise our coach was sacked because and if the playing group didn't like him.
Perhaps that's the body language you were picking up on?
I'd probably start Stocker and run TDK and/or Young off the bench, but I quite like the look of that list, just a few positional shuffles for me to get some run into the midfield.
I tried to build some flexibility into the 22 via the interchange bench; De Koning, Young, Pittonet, etc could all spend time on the bench without unbalancing the team. I thought about De Koning rucking with Young as backup but you need two ruckmen against Gawn and Jackson.
Zac Fisher has spent a fair chunk of time off injured, but I think people forget how good he can be. He has good pace, is good in traffic, is a quick thinker, very tricky, and tackles hard enough (he is one of the few carlton players I have seen who managed to tackle Dusty going the fend off!!).
If can unlock a role for him where he brings us true value, then we will benefit enormously because he is one of those clean players, who can use the ball well, and hits the scoreboard.
His only real issue is that he is small.
Zac Fisher has spent a fair chunk of time off injured, but I think people forget how good he can be. He has good pace, is good in traffic, is a quick thinker, very tricky, and tackles hard enough (he is one of the few carlton players I have seen who managed to tackle Dusty going the fend off!!).
If can unlock a role for him where he brings us true value, then we will benefit enormously because he is one of those clean players, who can use the ball well, and hits the scoreboard.
His only real issue is that he is small.
While I agree in principle, there are only going to be a limited number of spots available for this type of player, too many and you become uncompetitive.
Being overtly aggressive isn't a remedy for being lightweight, and having too many in that category remains a problem regardless of attitude. I think part of the reason for Nthmond's success with that aggressive game style was that they had multiple players of the Voss build type, fast yet heavy bodied and durable. Nthmond have lightweights too, but they are relegated to support roles and have to go once or twice a game as required, they aren't found smashing themselves at the coal face stoppage after stoppage. Last season when they had a few outs, it was amazing how they fell away when they depended too heavily on that second tier!
One thing I like about Fisher is the way he grabbed Dusty's "don't argue" arm, rendering it useless and forcing an untidy disposal or free kick.
Fisher is one who could benefit if we get the right mix of midfielders and small forwards; he generally gets clear and uses the ball well. It's not doing it often enough that's the problem and that could be addressed if our inside mids are feeding him the ball.
Basic jiu-jitsu move, grab arm and pull, watch Dusty topple over onto his face.
Being a mid these days is all about size and power. Something lacking on our list...so not surprised that SPS, Gibbons gone, Fisher under pressure. Petracca at 95 kg beats Fisher at 75 kg.
Basic jiu-jitsu move, grab arm and pull, watch Dusty topple over onto his face.
Being a mid these days is all about size and power. Something lacking on our list...so not surprised that SPS, Gibbons gone, Fisher under pressure. Petracca at 95 kg beats Fisher at 75 kg.
Think Wines is about 98kg....tough game for a small lightweight mid these days. You have to be something special like a Sam Walsh to be able to compete when you give away that size and strength every week.
Think Wines is about 98kg....tough game for a small lightweight mid these days. You have to be something special like a Sam Walsh to be able to compete when you give away that size and strength every week.
Not everyone has to win the ball.
There are advantages of being small....slippery fish...is hard to get a grip on when you are not standing right on top of him.
Play people to their advantages
Not everyone has to win the ball.
There are advantages of being small....slippery fish...is hard to get a grip on when you are not standing right on top of him.
Play people to their advantages
Contested ball is king...he won't be winning it much in the middle vs Trac, Wines, Bont etc.
Caleb Daniel was a mid at U18 level and twice the player Fisher is but he has to live on a half back flank and never goes through the middle. Don't get me wrong I like Zac but he doesn't have the weapons to overcome the lack of size imo, not when your opponent is 95kg, 190cm plus and can match you for speed..
Better off on a wing imho collecting and being part of a chain and distributing..
Contested ball is king...he won't be winning it much in the middle vs Trac, Wines, Bont etc.
Caleb Daniel was a mid at U18 level and twice the player Fisher is but he has to live on a half back flank and never goes through the middle. Don't get me wrong I like Zac but he doesn't have the weapons to overcome the lack of size imo, not when your opponent is 95kg, 190cm plus and can match you for speed..
Better off on a wing imho collecting and being part of a chain and distributing..
Exactly my point.
Caleb Daniel was a mid at U18 level and twice the player Fisher is but he has to live on a half back flank and never goes through the middle.
I think of Daniels when I read about Gibbons plight, Gibbons is just a shade less accomplished using the ball, has a bit less pace than Daniels, and is slightly less agile. Yet our fans think Gibbons has been hard done by not getting a midfield run, I suspect the reality is like for like Daniels was a step up from Gibbons in the midfield, but is still off the pace for an AFL midfield rotation.
Like Daniels I think Gibbons is good for a few minutes here and there while other players get reshuffled or spelled, but a fulltime midfield rotation would just put them both to the sword. Fisher is no different!
I know we want the story to be different, but I have to think like an opposition coach in this matter, and I'd be telling guys like Oliver, Petracca, Vlastuin, Cotchin, Liberatore, Selwood, Viney or Dangerfield, some of whom do not need to be told, to bump and dump players like Fisher, Daniels and Gibbons at every opportunity. You can imagine what Cotchin, Selwood or Dangerfield would do to these guys if they were getting too busy, it would be Hodge like! Unlike Robbo, if Fisher has a collision with Dusty it's not going to be Dusty limping off!
Fans don't get that when that happens it hurts the teams chances, they think coaches should barrel players for not sacrificing themselves on the alter, but it's counterproductive for players who are likely to be on the losing side of that contest to do so! You need a trick that hurts the opposition in some other circumstance, Fisher might have some, Daniel does, Gibbons I'm not sure about!
Nice guys do not win AFL games, it a lesson we have never really learned.
Thank God the people in the media are not picking our best team.