Carlton Supporters Club

OK, so new year, new poll.
Same rules.
Pick your best 22.

Personally, i think its best to pick a side using this...
http://jimmae.epizy.com/teamboard.html?i=2

Cottrell?

Cottrell?

Good get.

Poll didn't save the last entry for some reason.

Fixed up.

I've reset all the voting, so if you had already voted, please vote again.

I suspect when we did this last year folks voted in two different ways.

Some picked players they considered the best 22 on the list.
Others picked a balanced side that would take the field.
So if you have an excess of talent or a type of player in one part of the field how do we want to play this exercise.
It's a subtle difference and would mostly only apply to players on the fringe.
So can we just clarify.
Best 22 or Best side?

I’ve selected my best team rather than the best 22.  It’s getting harder with many decent footballers missing out on a spot.

I used the teamboard as suggested by Kruddler and have saved a screenshot.  It will be interesting to refer back to it as the season progresses and the newbies get put through their paces.

Why are we still not providing a sub? (No 23)

I suspect there will be quite a few fans who struggle with their favourites being borderline on weekly selection for 2024.

I hope the MC is smart and implements an intelligent horses for courses approach during the Home and Away, to get everybody cherry ripe for the end of the season.

In my opinion Chris Scott is correct in how he load manages his ageing players, but I think the concept of load management should be more universal, not just something we start to think about when players get older.

Why are we still not providing a sub? (No 23)

Data comparability?

As we’ve seen, choosing the wrong sub can be costly and a lesser but more versatile player may be a better option than a more capable, single role player.

I chose my 22, the picked an extra player as the sub so I’m not particularly fussed whether it’s best 22 or 23.

What I want to know is who omitted Weiters? 🙄

Also, I cannot see whom I voted for now either.

I suspect when we did this last year folks voted in two different ways.

Some picked players they considered the best 22 on the list.
Others picked a balanced side that would take the field.
So if you have an excess of talent or a type of player in one part of the field how do we want to play this exercise.
It's a subtle difference and would mostly only apply to players on the fringe.
So can we just clarify.
Best 22 or Best side?

I agree.

I actually went back to the one i did last year to find out what i wrote.
Thats why i added the 'best side' magnet link....to try and clear up the confusion.
Some people still vote on the best 22 players, but ideally we want to be consistent.

Also, I cannot see whom I voted for now either.

Kruddler reset the poll to include Cottrell, Thry.
Have you voted since he did that?
If not, vote again.

Why are we still not providing a sub? (No 23)

Because it ultimately doesn't matter.

Partially to keep it the same as last year.
Partially because its takes people 'sub-bias' out of their teams - some would add a 2nd ruck, whereas others think the 2nd ruck is the worst sub option or the 23rd player could be an aging veteran or a new kid etc.
Partially because the 22 who start are better than the 23rd player who doesn't.
....it also makes it harder to so you have to fight for who you want in your 22 and someone 'good' will always miss out.

Data comparability?

As we’ve seen, choosing the wrong sub can be costly and a lesser but more versatile player may be a better option than a more capable, single role player.

I chose my 22, the picked an extra player as the sub so I’m not particularly fussed whether it’s best 22 or 23.

What I want to know is who omitted Weiters? 🙄

You should be limited to 22 votes maximum. ;)

Also, I cannot see whom I voted for now either.

I can't see either, but i don't think i could see for all of last year too.

I think there was a site update somewhere along the line that stopped the bolded parts of who you voted for from showing.....which is annoying.

To solve thrys problem above, i use the magnet board, and then post the team in here, so i can refer back to it later for comparison.

So my team....which is based on a lot of optimism....

FB - Newman - Weitering - Docherty
HB - McGovern - Kemp - Saad
C  -    Acres  -  Cripps  -  Walsh
HF - Silvagni - Curnow - Martin
FF - Fantasia - McKay - Motlop
R - DeKoning - Hewitt - Cerra
Int - Cottrell - Cincotta - Cuningham - Williams

Yes, i've left Pittonet out. As i said last year, based on TDKs potential, he should be able to take the #1 ruck role and make it his own. Maybe this year?
Fantasia is picked, despite my protesting that he is not a position of need, we picked him up, so he must be a fair upgrade. We'll see.
Williams slots in. Again, optimistic, his best should earn him a callup.

I've also gone smaller than most people will as i've said too many talls hurts us. So no 2nd ruck, Jack can cover.
Also plenty of hard running on the bench as when we were flying, that is why we were winning.

Plenty of blokes are still to miss out.
Hollands (x2?)
Owies
C. Durdin
Fogarty
Boyd
and even Kennedy despite his slower style by comparison.

We'll see how we go after the pre-season games where i do part 2.

FB - Newman - Weitering - Kemp
HB - Cincotta - McGovern - Saad
C  -    Acres  -  Cripps  -  O Hollands
HF - Owies - McKay - Fogarty
FF - Martin - Curnow - Motlop
R - DeKoning - Walsh - Cerra
Int - Cottrell - Docherty - Hewett - Silvagni

I do hope Williams and Fantasia can get fit and be back to their best.

Not

To solve thrys problem above, i use the magnet board, and then post the team in here, so i can refer back to it later for comparison.

So my team....which is based on a lot of optimism....

FB - Newman - Weitering - Docherty
HB - McGovern - Kemp - Saad
C  -    Acres  -  Cripps  -  Walsh
HF - Silvagni - Curnow - Martin
FF - Fantasia - McKay - Motlop
R - DeKoning - Hewitt - Cerra
Int - Cottrell - Cincotta - Cuningham - Williams

Yes, i've left Pittonet out. As i said last year, based on TDKs potential, he should be able to take the #1 ruck role and make it his own. Maybe this year?
Fantasia is picked, despite my protesting that he is not a position of need, we picked him up, so he must be a fair upgrade. We'll see.
Williams slots in. Again, optimistic, his best should earn him a callup.

I've also gone smaller than most people will as i've said too many talls hurts us. So no 2nd ruck, Jack can cover.
Also plenty of hard running on the bench as when we were flying, that is why we were winning.

Plenty of blokes are still to miss out.
Hollands (x2?)
Owies
C. Durdin
Fogarty
Boyd
and even Kennedy despite his slower style by comparison.

We'll see how we go after the pre-season games where i do part 2.

Not sure you run two back flankers on the bench.

You should be limited to 22 votes maximum. ;)

Yes, I voted for 22 players but included the sub on my teamboard 23  :)

Not
Not sure you run two back flankers on the bench.

Doch/Williams as HBF/mids

B Saad Weitering Kemp
HB Docherty McGovern Newman
C Acres Cerra O.Hollands
HF Martin McKay Cottrell
F Motlop Curnow Silvagni
R Pittonet
RR Cripps
Rov Walsh
Int:  TDK, Kennedy, Cunningham, Boyd
Emerg Marchbank, Hewett, Williams

Docherty doesn't really play in the back line anymore. 

Docherty doesn't really play in the back line anymore. 

Yes, Doc will be on the wing or in the guts … but we don’t have to agree with the MC 🙂

I suspect if Williams is back he'll be the preferred Mid rotation ahead of Doc, and I'd expect Doc to move back to a more conventional HBF role.

To me the HB line looks pretty solid with a trio like Doc, McGovern and Saad, I'd be more confident on that trio pulling trigger in the style Voss wants simply because they have the runs on the board. I can't imagine anybody better to have my back than Doc or Saad, and that might be a big factor in the absence of Weiters and even when Weiters is being eased back in.

I would also be interested to see how Williams pushing forward of centre might link up with Harry, Charlie, Motlop and Martin, when he gets up and about Williams is a very good ball user.

Acres and Ollie Hollands are interesting, Ollie tends not to hit the scoreboard but Acres looks damaging at times. As much as we like Cottrell it will be interesting to see how he fits, but Hollands might be some 2nd year blues so we probably should not expect too much. If the MC can squeeze all three in we are going to have some very impressive deep running in 2024.

Someone is either taking the piss or had a whoopsie.
Weiters and Curnow have been left out of someones side.

So far, 12 / 12 for....
Cerra
Cripps
McKay
McGovern
De Koning
Acres
Docherty
Walsh
Martin
Newman
Saad


I reckon this time last year the likes of McGovern, Martin and Acres were missing from more sides than they were picked in.

I suspect if Williams is back he'll be the preferred Mid rotation ahead of Doc, and I'd expect Doc to move back to a more conventional HBF role.

To me the HB line looks pretty solid with a trio like Doc, McGovern and Saad, I'd be more confident on that trio pulling trigger in the style Voss wants simply because they have the runs on the board. I can't imagine anybody better to have my back than Doc or Saad, and that might be a big factor in the absence of Weiters and even when Weiters is being eased back in.

I would also be interested to see how Williams pushing forward of centre might link up with Harry, Charlie, Motlop and Martin, when he gets up and about Williams is a very good ball user.

Acres and Ollie Hollands are interesting, Ollie tends not to hit the scoreboard but Acres looks damaging at times. As much as we like Cottrell it will be interesting to see how he fits, but Hollands might be some 2nd year blues so we probably should not expect too much. If the MC can squeeze all three in we are going to have some very impressive deep running in 2024.

Williams has no endurance and has been tried in the midfield with mixed results.
I'd expect him to play half back if and when he plays...

Someone is either taking the piss or had a whoopsie.
Weiters and Curnow have been left out of someones side.

More likely the latter. Even with the aid of the graffic  it took me a couple of goes to get it sorted. I kept getting  the count wrong. I found this was actually the most difficult of the ones we've done for me, and I had to leave out players I would have included on a best 22 as opposed to a balanced 22.

Williams has no endurance and has been tried in the midfield with mixed results.
I'd expect him to play half back if and when he plays...

I don’t think endurance is Zac’s problem but, yes, he was found wanting when tried in the midfield.  Unless he spent his year off learning how to play in the midfield, Zac will be providing run out of the backline this season.

On the other hand, Doc is now better value on the wing and in the middle than he would be back in defence.  I can’t see Vossy turning the clock back when we’ve got so many decent small/medium defenders.

It’s been another interesting exercise with subtle changes in who we see as most likely to suit up, if not for opening round, when Weiters is back in the mix (and Hollands, E).

I’m not sure when Kruddler will ask the question again but practice match form might change some minds.

I’m not sure when Kruddler will ask the question again but practice match form might change some minds.

If all goes to plan, i'll try copy what i did last year.

Part 1 - Pre-season training.
Part 2 - After pre-season games, before round 1
Part 3 - 1/4 way through season
Part 4 - 1/2 way through
Part 5 - 3/4 way through
Part 6 - end of regular season, before finals
Part 7 - After finals.

Depth is pretty good I am finding it too hard to pick best 22. But here it goes

B: Newman Weitering Marchbank
HB: Williams  McGovern  Saad

C: Acres     Cerra   Docherty

HF: Martin   McKay    Cottrell
F: Motlop    Curnow  Fantasia

R: TDK   Cripps  Walsh

IC: Hewett  Kennedy  Boyd   Silvagni

E: Pittonet  Cincotta Cunningham

Backline looks dynamite that can take on any mix

Centerline lots of heavy hitters that rarely lose their one on ones

Forward - can use any combination really but went for this one

TDK needs to ruck for more minutes with McKay relieving few minutes in a quarter.

Where's Doc going to play this season?

He did give the standard "wherever the coaches want me" response before clarifying;

“[I played] half-forward, midfield, wing. It’ll be the same sort of role for me this year.”

As much as I want to join in the spirit of our best 22, I find it too limiting... sorry, K. I, humbly, see it as a, at minimum, best 28.

At this stage, I would guess our starting 23 for R1 (BrisVegas) to be:

Newman          Big Durds          McGovern
Williams           Kemp                Saad
Cottrell             Cripps              Acres
Docherty          McKay              E Hollands
Motlop             Curnow            Owies
R: De Koning    Cerra      Walsh
I: Pittonet, Martin, Marchbank, Hewett
Sub: Hollands, O.
Emerg: Boyd, Cincotta, Kennedy.

As much as I want to join in the spirit of our best 22, I find it too limiting... sorry, K. I, humbly, see it as a, at minimum, best 28.

Thats the point baggers. To use 'group mentality' to see who should be deemed as the best. Its hard calls for everyone to make.
Everyone knows i have been Pittonets biggest spruiker and have been critical of TDK (unrealised) potential.
Yet, i left out Pitto and included TDK.

Pitto would be in the 28 though......but that is not the exercise. ;)

As much as I want to join in the spirit of our best 22, I find it too limiting... sorry, K. I, humbly, see it as a, at minimum, best 28.

At this stage, I would guess our starting 23 for R1 (BrisVegas) to be:

Newman          Big Durds          McGovern
Williams           Kemp                Saad
Cottrell             Cripps              Acres
Docherty          McKay              E Hollands
Motlop             Curnow            Owies
R: De Koning    Cerra      Walsh
I: Pittonet, Martin, Marchbank, Hewett
Sub: Hollands, O.
Emerg: Boyd, Cincotta, Kennedy.

Come on Shane ... be ruthless  ;)

Hollands, E is suspended for opening round and R1

Come on Shane ... be ruthless  ;)

Hollands, E is suspended for opening round and R1

Don't worry about who is suspended and unfit. Assume everyone is fit (unless i say so in the post - like for the rest of the year, Silvagni will be ineligble - but weitering will be eligible despite not being fit for the next 3 months.

Don't worry about who is suspended and unfit. Assume everyone is fit (unless i say so in the post - like for the rest of the year, Silvagni will be ineligble - but weitering will be eligible despite not being fit for the next 3 months.

I know that's your rules but Baggers picked a team to play Brisbane  :)

I know that's your rules but Baggers picked a team to play Brisbane  :)

I know, just a reminder to him and everyone else what we are trying to do and get everyone on the same page.

Got no issue with him posting a 22 to play the Lions...but put it in the Lions thread (or start one if there isn't one)

When I do an end of season analysis, it needs everyone on the same pages for it to work.

Best 22 (ex Silvagni), noting I’d probably play Lewis Young full back Rnd 1 rather than Marchbank.

Kemp Weitering Boyd
Saad  McGovern Docherty
Cottrell Walsh Acres
Motlop Curnow Martin
Durdin McKay DeKoning

Pittonet Cerra Cripps

Newman Cunningham Hewett Kennedy

Others at AFL standard
Def - Cowan, Marchbank, Young, Williams, Cincotta
Mid - Hollands x2, Binns
Forward - Fantasia, Owies

Just for comparison, this is Rohan Connolly's version of our best 22:

B: Caleb Marchbank, Jacob Weitering, Nic Newman
HB: Sam Docherty, Brodie Kemp, Adam Saad
C: Blake Acres, Patrick Cripps, Matt Cottrell
HF: Matthew Owies, Harry McKay, Jesse Motlop
F: Jack Martin, Charlie Curnow, Mitch McGovern
R: Tom De Koning, Adam Cerra, Sam Walsh
Inter: George Hewett, Marc Pittonet, Zac Williams, Ollie Hollands
Emerg: Matthew Kennedy, Alex Cincotta, Lachie Fogarty, David Cuningham

For a start, Doc won't play in defence and Gov is unlikely to play as a forward.

The most telling part of Connolly's analysis is, "With the likes of Orazio Fantasia, Boyd, Lewis Young, Elijah Hollands, Lachie Cowan and Corey Durdin missing out on a spot in their best 26, the Blues’ depth for 2024 looks healthy."

Best 22 (ex Silvagni), noting I’d probably play Lewis Young full back Rnd 1 rather than Marchbank.

Kemp Weitering Boyd
Saad  McGovern Docherty
Cottrell Walsh Acres
Motlop Curnow Martin
Durdin McKay DeKoning

Pittonet Cerra Cripps

Newman Cunningham Hewett Kennedy

Others at AFL standard
Def - Cowan, Marchbank, Young, Williams, Cincotta
Mid - Hollands x2, Binns
Forward - Fantasia, Owies

I think Young is more than likely to play FB round 1 unless Sam Durdin has a real good preseason series of practice games.
Marchbank did ok playing his role in the finals but he is undersized to take on a player like Lynch.
Young has a chance to reestablish himself in the team with Weitering out short term and Jack out for the season given he can play
back, ruck and even go forward if required and it will be a big year for him imo.

I think Young is more than likely to play FB round 1 unless Sam Durdin has a real good preseason series of practice games.
Marchbank did ok playing his role in the finals but he is undersized to take on a player like Lynch.
Young has a chance to reestablish himself in the team with Weitering out short term and Jack out for the season given he can play
back, ruck and even go forward if required and it will be a big year for him imo.

I’ve got Young in my 22 based on the premise that last season was an aberration and playing on Harry and Charlie at training would make him stronger … if it doesn’t kill him 🙂

Just for comparison, this is Rohan Connolly's version of our best 22:

B: Caleb Marchbank, Jacob Weitering, Nic Newman
HB: Sam Docherty, Brodie Kemp, Adam Saad
C: Blake Acres, Patrick Cripps, Matt Cottrell
HF: Matthew Owies, Harry McKay, Jesse Motlop
F: Jack Martin, Charlie Curnow, Mitch McGovern
R: Tom De Koning, Adam Cerra, Sam Walsh
Inter: George Hewett, Marc Pittonet, Zac Williams, Ollie Hollands
Emerg: Matthew Kennedy, Alex Cincotta, Lachie Fogarty, David Cuningham

For a start, Doc won't play in defence and Gov is unlikely to play as a forward.

The most telling part of Connolly's analysis is, "With the likes of Orazio Fantasia, Boyd, Lewis Young, Elijah Hollands, Lachie Cowan and Corey Durdin missing out on a spot in their best 26, the Blues’ depth for 2024 looks healthy."

What is telling about Gov to the forward line is that we have a lot of medium sized defenders, Kemp, Marchbank and McGovern (to go with Weitering and even Young) but we don't have any medium forwards now that Silvagni has gone down. Martin is a marking target of sorts, but is more of a taller small who i'd much rather have crumbing than contesting marks.

I reckon i floated similar either this stage last year or the year before for the same reasons.