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Topic: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats (Read 18342 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #60 –
I think Eddie needs to hang the boots up and mentor Fisher, Durdin and Owies for the rest of the season, if he wasnt Eddie he would have been dropped a while back as his form has been ordinary IMO.
He shouldnt have got the extra year and his time is up, I'm sure he is great for memberships and ambassador role stuff but the game has caught up with him and he looks like an old bloke playing with the kids. Yep he will kick the odd Eddie trick goal from the impossible angle and give another away but thats not going to be the norm IMHO and we are carrying him at the minute.
Teague has to tap him on the shoulder and offer him a role off the field which will probably be more important anyway if he can help make a small forward out of those players I mentioned.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #61 –
Quote from: LP on
I think many of us in the boat, we want the kids in when they deserve to be in.

BB gifted kids games, and where did that get us?

The big question is why are so many of our talented kids failing, player development?

I don't think the kids are failing per se, I think the system we use to develop them is rubbish.  Our conversion rate of turning draftees into good, solid footballers must be one of the worst (if not the worst) in the competition. 

I would have thought that when you put a ground-up rebuild in place, the one element that is non-negotiable is a development process that delivers the goods.  Yet here we are, 4-5 years on, and it seems clear that the process we have used is no good. 
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #62 –
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/shock-treatment-time-for-a-big-name-blue-to-fall-says-rhys-jones-20210426-p57mba.html?fbclid=IwAR0aGQd2RNJo4-ZAKE74_8QU4BxBuBRAyW9bBw9tjabC6iuj-tSSQ3aS2DM

Quote
Carlton great David Rhys-Jones has called on the Blues to make a big-name statement at selection in a bid to “shock” the struggling side into gear ahead of Sunday’s key clash against arch-rival Essendon.

Rhys-Jones, the 1987 Norm Smith medallist, said veterans Marc Murphy, Eddie Betts and Levi Casboult should face the axe and allow youngsters to be given an extended run in a side which has slumped to 2-4 and faces a defining month against the Bombers, Western Bulldogs and Melbourne.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #63 –
Quote from: LP on
The big question is why are so many of our talented kids failing, player development?

I'll answer your question with a question.....or questions.

If we draft a player who is a small forward. Has played small forward his whole life and wants to continue to be a small forward.
Then you pick him for the 1's......and you play him as a ruck. How do you think that player will go? How will his confidence go? How many games will he get before being dropped for underperforming? How will his confidence go after being dropped?

So why can't we develop players???

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #64 –
Quote from: kruddler on
I'll answer your question with a question.....or questions.

If we draft a player who is a small forward. Has played small forward his whole life and wants to continue to be a small forward.
Then you pick him for the 1's......and you play him as a ruck. How do you think that player will go? How will his confidence go? How many games will he get before being dropped for underperforming? How will his confidence go after being dropped?

So why can't we develop players???

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #65 –
Quote from: Lods on
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/shock-treatment-time-for-a-big-name-blue-to-fall-says-rhys-jones-20210426-p57mba.html?fbclid=IwAR0aGQd2RNJo4-ZAKE74_8QU4BxBuBRAyW9bBw9tjabC6iuj-tSSQ3aS2DM

Thats the we are done for the season lets play the kids approach which probably means the coach is done if the target was finals.
Liddle and co wont admit defeat unless they have a fall guy, bit early IMHO to go dropping every oldie on mass....I'd start with retiring Eddie and working a kid into his role.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #66 –
Quote from: Baggers on
"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."
Yep. Pretty simple isn't it.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #67 –
Quote from: kruddler on
I'll answer your question with a question.....or questions.

If we draft a player who is a small forward. Has played small forward his whole life and wants to continue to be a small forward.
Then you pick him for the 1's......and you play him as a ruck. How do you think that player will go? How will his confidence go? How many games will he get before being dropped for underperforming? How will his confidence go after being dropped?

So why can't we develop players???

I'll see you that question and raise you another.
Who takes responsibility for that?
Is it the recruiting...I notice a few folks are now looking at Silvagni's time at the club a little more critically.

Is it the team selections.
I get that sometimes it's really valuable for a players development to play multiple roles.
You give a forward some time in the backline to develop a defensive side to his game.

But so many of our players seem to be 'playing out of position'.
SPS and Stocker strike me as more mid-field, or in SPS's case a mid/forward.
Kennedy is not a wingman by any stretch, yet seemed to be playing there in his last game.

How many in-game moves have we seen this season to shake things up a bit?
I remember McGovern in the backline for a spell but I think that was when Weitering was injured for a bit.

I struggle to remember too many other in-game moves of significance.
We seem to set up and that's the way it stays.
But I'll stand correcting.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #68 –
Quote from: Lods on
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/shock-treatment-time-for-a-big-name-blue-to-fall-says-rhys-jones-20210426-p57mba.html?fbclid=IwAR0aGQd2RNJo4-ZAKE74_8QU4BxBuBRAyW9bBw9tjabC6iuj-tSSQ3aS2DM

“I don’t like naming players that should be dropped, it’s unfair on the group, on those players in particular, but the guys that I have mentioned are over that 30-year-age bracket and they are not producing..................

Then in the next paragraph.....

...............We have older blokes in there that are not producing – you look at Murphy, Betts and Casboult as the three that stand out, aren’t they?”

You have to laugh.

 

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #69 –
Quote from: Lods on
I'll see you that question and raise you another.
Who takes responsibility for that?
Is it the recruiting...I notice a few folks are now looking at Silvagni's time at the club a little more critically.

Is it the team selections.
I get that sometimes it's really valuable for a players development to play multiple roles.
You give a forward some time in the backline to develop a defensive side to his game.

But so many of our players seem to be 'playing out of position'.
SPS and Stocker strike me as more mid-field, or in SPS's case a mid/forward.
Kennedy is not a wingman by any stretch, yet seemed to be playing there in his last game.

How many in-game moves have we seen this season to shake things up a bit?
I remember McGovern in the backline for a spell but I think that was when Weitering was injured for a bit.

I struggle to remember too many other in-game moves of significance.
We seem to set up and that's the way it stays.
But I'll stand correcting.

Who takes responsibility? Its a good question, but not an easy answer.

I'll take this back to why i wanted Malthouse to begin with. He knows what it takes to set up a successful club, He knows how it is supposed to run and who does what and where the responsibility lies. Those above him thought they knew better and undermined him. Not sure where they got that self belief from, but i think it is misplaced.

So since then we've seen a whole lot of not much. More of the same.

What are we doing to change it? Who knows.
I think we have improved as a club. There are no blowouts, we can match it with the best. We just need that little bit of extra confidence to push us up over the peak and it should snowball from there.

Teague and the MC need to walk a tight rope. Get wins AND develop kids. As we've seen, those 2 are at odds with eachother.
He's been hamstrung by injuries which means he just picks 22 fit blokes who can handle AFL level footy, and a handful who are can, but are out of form miss out.

Overall, i think the development will improve, now we have a dedicated reserves side. Hopefully we can keep the wolves at bay until that starts to pay off. Hopefully we can get a lot less numbers on the injury list at the same time.

Now, going back to who is at fault for any/all of the above. I don't think it is Silvagni. I think he has brought together a more talented list than we've had in a decade and he's done so with very little poker chips to start. The best thing he did was cover holes.
He started with KPPs. Weitering, Curnow, McKay....then added smaller types SPS, Cuningham, Dow, Obrien, Walsh etc. He had a good mix of talls/smalls as backups. Overall a balanced list.

Since his departure, we've recruited some high end talent (on the back of some more wins) but our list balance has been turned on its head. We have zero backup in the KPD and Ruck department and we have an abundance of half back types. So much so that we can have 4 on the injury list and still a solid defence on paper....with some kids developing as well.

What does that do for your development though? Players are forced to play out of position. You try and reinvent players to cover gaps, rather than play players to their strengths. Confidence takes a hit and development stalls.
Kennedy was played as a wing because we have a lack of wingers on the list. We played LOB early on because we have a lack of wingers on our list. LOB couldn't play the role, Kennedy couldn't play the role. Who can? Setterfield doesn't know if he is a back pocket, an inside mid or a winger. His form has struggled as a result. My boy Newnes can be adequate across a few positions, that being one of them. Murphy is playing there as well and its highlighting the fact he doesn't run both ways.

So.....who is responsible.
1. Lady Luck for injuries.
2. Austin for poor list balance
3. MC for playing players in the wrong positions.

....all of the above IMO.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #70 –
Newnes has been okay playing his role, even Betts was still our most dangerous small forward out there.

Don't look at disposal numbers to look for blame as you will always unfairly target the wrong players.

The reason we lost is because their best players were better than our best players.
Cripps had 25 touches but was easily our worst player. We would have been better off without him.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #71 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
The reason we lost is because their best players were better than our best players.

...and thats why i did my little prediction leading into the game. They are simply a better side than us. There is no shame losing to better sides. We cannot compete for a full 120 minutes with the best sides. We are improving, but we still have a way to go.
it doesn't mean we should start again simply because we are not there yet.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #72 –
Quote from: kruddler on
...and thats why i did my little prediction leading into the game. They are simply a better side than us. There is no shame losing to better sides. We cannot compete for a full 120 minutes with the best sides. We are improving, but we still have a way to go.
it doesn't mean we should start again simply because we are not there yet.

It's hard to accept that our best 2 players from a couple of years ago, our captains who should be in the prime of their careers are just B grade now. Docherty is not going to get better so we will have some tough decisions as we can't play he and Plowman in the same backline. Not sure what's going on with Cripps but he is really stinking it up, mate just texted me that he had 11 clangers on the weekend which is not surprising.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #73 –
Silvagni?  I will NEVER give him credit for recruiting obvious number one picks that any idiot would have nominated.  Look a little deeper for his busts ... there's a lot of them.

That's my strong opinion and nobody is about to change it.  He was woeful

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #74 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
It's hard to accept that our best 2 players from a couple of years ago, our captains who should be in the prime of their careers are just B grade now. Docherty is not going to get better so we will have some tough decisions as we can't play he and Plowman in the same backline. Not sure what's going on with Cripps but he is really stinking it up, mate just texted me that he had 11 clangers on the weekend which is not surprising.
Apart from Cripps clangars his direct opponents are also hurting us, I thought Lyons was very good player for Brisbane, that 50m pass to Hipwood on the run for a goal was a gem.
Be interesting how he goes this week, in a couple of previous Essendon games he has been tagged by Langford and struggled...