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Topic: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats (Read 18443 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #135 –
Not sure Teague is going to want to experiment and tinker with a smaller lineup given his job is on the line.
The reality is the next three weeks are going to be crucial for the team and his career and I just dont see him messing with too many kids or cute positional changes unless ordered to....

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #136 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Not sure Teague is going to want to experiment and tinker with a smaller lineup given his job is the on the line.
The reality is the next three weeks are going to be crucial for the team and his career and I just dont see him messing with too many kids or cute positional changes unless ordered to....


Bottom line is that the best CFC listed players in the VFL side were Setterfield, Dow and LOB. Those three with perhaps SOJ returning from injury would be about the only blokes being looked at for a senior call up IMHO. Willo was better but...

Owies had an ordinary game -- and in such a big win, that's not good for a small forward -- Philp is still getting game time after injury, Ramsay is probably the closest of the newbies, Honey is still learning and hot 'n cold, Durdin is a long way off but shows promise. And TDK, Carroll & Newman should be having their first runs in the VFL after injury.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #137 –
Quote from: Pratty on
No I'd use McGovern and/or Kennedy as 2nd ruck/relief ruck. Cripps to play mostly forward to allow kids to be given time and exposed to the top level. All about opportunities ala Darcy Parish at Essendon.

McGovern, to me, does his best work either in defence or with a greater role. Ie, not as the 3rd or 4th banana. I think he needs added focus and responsibility as a focal point. I'd be going with more runners and crumbers so I'd certainly consider Owies or Honey. This happened with McGovern through injury at the start of last year and he was relief pinch hitting ruck. with the two main tall forwards as Gov and JSOS. I think one genuine key forward in McKay with a rotation of smalls and medium types - Kennedy, Silvagni, McGovern as an example. Casboult is getting in the way and offers zero right now. Hoping that changes with him though.

Who says we lose with picking the Cuninghams, Stockers, Dows, Setterfields, Honeys, Owies, etc? Other teams can do it.

We are falling off the pace and it's obvious.

The MC may be wrong but it has been in no hurry to give extended playing time to the players you have mentioned.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #138 –
Quote from: kruddler on
They are coming off a shorter week having potential blockbuster fatigue after Anzac day. Get the jump on them early and shunt take the for if the had all game

Yep
A bit of 'shock and awe' early on.

I just have a feeling they might be of a similar opinion...thinking that if they apply the pressure we'll wilt.
It may be a bit willing early on, until one side establishes superiority in the pressure stakes.
I think we should be able to best them in that area.
When we're 'on' we're very good.

We can't afford any of those four or five goal lapses though.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #139 –
Quote from: Lods on
Arguably our most important game so far this season.

We need to have our best possible match-ups out there.
We have to be pretty sure with players returning  from injury, and if there's a doubt don't play them.
I don't think we should make too many changes.
These  guys don't have to lift a lot from last week to win this game.
...and a win is pretty vital for a whole lot of reasons.
We're due to kick a but for a week or two until we go back to old habits. Like what happened last year. Great one week, old habits the next until we 5hit out pants in a couple of last qtrs when finals were on the line.
 

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #140 –
Quote from: WASurfer on
What other options do we have in terms of a "mobile forward" if we drop Casboult and play McGovern in the ruck? JSOS is out injured and Kennedy obviously has his papers stamped. Jones is playing his best football as an intercept marking defender. As a ruckman he'll just jump high and bash it....hoping one of our midfielders can latch onto it first....there won't be any science too it.

Let Jones 2nd ruck as Levi did when he played defence. He'd revel in a run around the ground as he did back in the VFL running around smashing bodies. Probably just increase his confidence further.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #141 –
Quote from: Lods on
We can't afford any of those four or five goal lapses though.
Its in our DNA
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #142 –
Quote from: laj on
Let Jones 2nd ruck as Levi did when he played defence. He'd revel in a run around the ground as he did back in the VFL running around smashing bodies. Probably just increase his confidence further.
I dont see how you can experiment on the fly and play a bloke in a role he has no idea about playing. Jones went from a fwd to a defender, how? By training with the defenders for a whole PS and then playing a string of games in the 2s as defender where he revelled and dominated. Playing him in the ruck just because he is tall and mobile is not a valid reason. When he gets badly beaten, you run the risk of destroying his confidence. We are stuck with Levi as the back up until TDK is ready Im afraid.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #143 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
I dont see how you can experiment on the fly and play a bloke in a role he has no idea about playing. Jones went from a fwd to a defender, how? By training with the defenders for a whole PS and then playing a string of games in the 2s as defender where he revelled and dominated. Playing him in the ruck just because he is tall and mobile is not a valid reason. When he gets badly beaten, you run the risk of destroying his confidence. We are stuck with Levi as the back up until TDK is ready Im afraid.

Did it brilliantly in the VFL. It was playing the ruck that gained him all his confidence before he went to defence. No issue at at all.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #144 –
3 goal loss against the cheats. A painful 3 goals. Let everyone hope my medication is failing me. Maybe need to triple the dose.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #145 –
Surely Levi is so badly out of form he can't be picked....

Suns showed against us a smaller bloke can at least negate the regular size opposition ruck.

Time for DT to change the broken record....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #146 –
Is it a home game?

No email from the Club this week with code....?
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #148 –
Quote from: flyboy77 on
Is it a home game?

No email from the Club this week with code....?
Cheats home game, do you mean the email to redeem your ticket? I got that one.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Pre game postulations: AFL 2021 Rd 7: Carlton vs the Drug Cheats

Reply #149 –
Interesting article from the Chief Politicial and Economics Writer  and ardent Carlton man, Phillip Coorey, for the Australian Financial Review.........

"A Carlton fan’s lament
In politics, the mob usually gets it right when it comes to elections. In footy, the fans are no less intuitive, especially the passionate ones.
Phillip CooreyPolitical editor
Apr 28, 2021 – 11.23am
Professional sport and politics are very similar. Both are, in essence, a competition where winning is everything and all else is a distant second.
Not that you can win every time, nor please all the people all the time, be they voters or fans.
High-priced Carlton recruit Zac Williams and rising star Sam Walsh after their team’s fourth loss of the season.  Getty.
Success in politics requires a leader to be of the people but not like them. To a certain degree, sport is no different.
Clubs and their hierarchies need to be in sync with their fans. But it is here that a worrying disconnect has developed between the Carlton Football Club and its 80,000 members and thousands more followers.
In politics, the mob usually gets it right when it comes to elections. In footy, the fans are no less intuitive, especially the passionate ones.
For them, football is a large and important part of their lives, a relief from the drudgery of work and winter, something they study and obsess about, which they can discuss at length with friends and strangers alike.
Sport is the great leveller. These people are patient but not endlessly so. They know the game inside out, and they know when all is not well.
In football, as in politics, winning is everything
What incenses them is being told otherwise by their club’s public relations unit, which writes and publishes match reports that cherry-pick the highlights, gloss over the failings and ultimately bear little resemblance to what they just witnessed with their own eyes.
When fans are angry and hurting, they want to know their club is feeling the same way, not see their coach regurgitating talking points at a news conference and endlessly dwelling on the positives.
They don’t expect perfection and, of course, optimism is important, but so is candour. And passion.
Studying the club’s Facebook page, it is clear the overwhelming majority of Carlton fans feel this way. The disappointment was evident immediately after yet another “gallant defeat” at the hands of Richmond in round one this season.
It wasn’t so much that Carlton has started losing again, but that there has been no discernible step change since last year. Anyone who watched the preseason match against St Kilda, another gallant defeat, could see that.
There is next to no tolerance among the fan base for anything but success. The anger is visceral.
Platitudes and gobbledegook
Carlton has been in strife for the best part of two decades. It was getting back on its feet under coach Brett Ratten, making the finals from 2009 until 2011, until he was sacked and replaced by Mick Malthouse.
This parting gesture by president Stephen Kernahan and CEO Greg Swann was classic old-school Carlton. Buy a solution rather than grow one.
It was a disaster and heralded the start of the downward spiral. Malthouse’s abrasive and polarising manner didn’t work at Carlton. Even from the outside we could all see that.
The club made the finals in 2013, but only after Essendon was disqualified over the supplements scandal.
Around this time, the now-dreaded term “rebuild” began to rear its head, and in 2015, Malthouse was given his marching orders by Kernahan’s successor, Mark LoGiudice.
Brendon Bolton: one of the new breed of Aussie rules theorists. Scott Gelston
In came the hapless Brendon Bolton, a lovely fellow with a good football brain, but one of the new breed of theorists.
Bolton spoke in platitudes and gobbledegook. Green shoots became his hallmark. He spent one summer in Boston doing a leadership course and after that, became unintelligible.
After one particular flogging, he told the news conference the players had “owned their careers tonight”.
To this day, I still have no idea what that meant.
The Carlton hierarchy was so invested in Bolton it refused to acknowledge what soon became apparent to the fans.
This bloke wasn’t going to work either. But many stayed patient and most remained loyal. It was, after all, a rebuild, and success was around the corner.
This was supposed to be the year ... no more excuses, no more green shoots, no more gallant bloody losses.
Others were less forgiving, but to the detriment of the club, it persisted with Bolton until his tenure was completely untenable.
Who can forget that savaging at the hands of GWS, when they outscored us in the final quarter despite having only 16 fit players?
Playing with one man short, and at one stage just 16 on the field, the GWS players were instructed by coach Leon Cameron to stop kicking so many goals so as not to wear themselves out.
It remains my darkest moment in some five decades of following the club.
It was not until 2019 and four wasted years that Bolton was let go, with just 16 wins from 77 games to his name, including three from the most recent 33 matches.
David Teague started off speaking plain English.  Getty
Then came David Teague, a former player of solid standing, with a good football brain and who refreshingly spoke in plain English and coached an old style – of players backing themselves and going up the guts.
Thankfully, the club finally acknowledged the rebuild wasn’t going so well and changed tack. After seven years of telling us one thing, it decided to fast-track the rebuild by buying a few players to blend experience with youth. After securing Adam Saad and Zac Williams, this was supposed to be the year.
There would be no more excuses, no more green shoots, no more rebuilding, no more gallant bloody losses or brave Blues.
It was time to make the finals, legitimately, for the first time in a decade during which we have churned through two presidents, three CEOs, four coaches, God knows how many players, witnessed a membership boom and an eradicated debt but, most importantly, achieved scant progress on the field.
But six rounds into season 2021 and it’s a feeling of ‘here we are again’.
Despite poaching the best fitness guru, we started the season with a third of the team’s first 18 on the injury list, and were told to accept this as normal.
Players lured by enormous salaries to kick goals couldn’t hit a barn wall. Other teams which slumped long after us have rebuilt long before us. Brisbane is Exhibit A.
Our coach has lost his mojo and speaks in spin, repeating the same phrases after each loss as if he is a hostage being made to read a statement.
Not feared or disliked, just pitied
Teague had nothing like the goodwill or patience extended to his predecessors who got away for years with saying winning wasn’t important. He had a very short runway on which to operate. It may be unfair to demand his scalp but many are.
Not so long ago, it was a young Patrick Cripps being exhorted to “step up” and help Marc Murphy in the midfield. That then became a young Sam Walsh must help Cripps carry the team. Now we all fear Walsh will depart before the same burden borne by his predecessors breaks him too.
Once upon a time, Carlton was used to winning. We expected it and demanded it. We were not like those other clubs, such as St Kilda, which hasn’t won a flag since its first in 1966, or the Bulldogs, who had to wait half a century between drinks,
But now, that’s how it feels. We are neither feared nor disliked. Just pitied.
Carlton legend Mark Maclure spoke recently of two decades of being served up rubbish. We have had more wooden spoons – five – than any other club this century, but more significant is the cultural dislocation. A once-feared juggernaut, Carlton’s culture has become one of aspiring to mediocrity.
Eddie Betts was about five when Carlton last won a flag. Now people are saying he’s too old and should move on. Getty
We don’t know how to win, just garner a heroic headline. As Bob Hawke once said of Kim Beazley, who he didn’t think was tough enough to beat John Howard: “He hasn’t got enough crap in him.”
That’s what years of repeated heavy defeats and a patronising football media instils in a club, all helped by a generation that has no living memory of the Carlton of old.
Of the 43 senior players on the current list, just under a third were alive when Carlton last won a flag in 1995.
Marc Murphy and Eddie Betts were eight, Levi Casboult and Ed Curnow were about five and due to start school. Liam Jones was a year behind, aged four.
The rest – Sam Docherty, Cripps, Michael Gibbons, Adam Saad, Jack Martin, Jack Newnes, Nic Newman, Lachie Plowman and Mitch McGovern – were aged two or less and still in nappies.
Our corporate memory, built over more than 150 years, has vanished.
A rebuild longer than Beirut’s
Ultimately, sport is like politics in that there are no problems that winning won’t fix.
But an awful realisation has dawned that all the talk, promises and planning of years past has amounted to nothing, and we have to drop senior players, look for another coach and start again. We will be rebuilding longer than Beirut.
The mood was articulated on Facebook by a fan who lamented that all this club gave him was “spin and misery”.
Another, named Ross Cattle, wrote after the loss to Brisbane: “I spend six days in agony and tell myself don’t watch Carlton. Game day comes and I can’t control myself: I have to watch and I actually, stupidly, convince myself this game will be our turning point – only to be devastated (by) another loss, and a grand final appearance so far away.
“Maybe it is something I never might see in my life. When we do win, it’s meaningless in terms of finals, and what we all dream of, a grand final.
“Being a Carlton supporter feels like you’re a loser; but 15 minutes before quarter time, you actually believe something different.
“Is there a worse team than Carlton?”
The answer to that last proposition is “yes”. And plenty.
Because as much as this club breaks our hearts, we love it and that’s why we get so angry at times and lash out.
We’ll always love the club, even if it kills us.
Because it’s more important than politics.
It’s footy"