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Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #30
I agree - he has had to deal with two Covid seasons, too many injuries and a shallow list that has had limited development due to the debilitation of the feeder competition.

I reckon it would be a sign of questionable integrity to replace him with Lyon, who has shown no loyalty to anyone (but himself and some selected players) before abandoning the Saints and the Dockers without so much as a backwards glance.  If the TT is to be derailed, I would only consider Clarkson as an acceptable option.

Just on Lyon...
Nick Riewoldt spoke earlier in the week and said the players were quite shocked (he literally woke up from Surgery with Lyon at the foot of his bed to tell him first hand) but he said they understand. Without saying it, he pointed the finger squarely at the powers that be above Lyon. They either pushed him, or made it untenable for him.

I can't speak on Freo, but Riewoldt suggested there would be very much the same kind of love from the players that he gets from the Saints boys. Perhaps similar occurred there.

TBH, i think i'm warming to the idea of Ross Lyon.
He's already been at the club and knows how it works.
He is media savvy and knows how to handle questions, and can give a slap if required.
He has plenty of friends in the media which should help keep the wolves at bay and ease the pressure usually turned up on the Carlton coach.
He's had (almost) success at 2 clubs, both clubs have been basket cases otherwise.

Is there anyone more qualified to take over the role, specifically at our club.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #31
Lyon is a massive step up on Teague.

DT has shown himself, on multiple occasions, to be pretty much clueless come match day.

And very weak defensively.

Is that on him or his assistants?

Both.

I've seen nothing - zero, nada - to suggest DT can get us to finals, let alone a flag.

Some of the losses to lower teams were inexcusable.

Some of the match committee decisions during the year were simply inexcusable.

Lyon got both the Saints and Freo to GFs with lesser lists than we have presently.

We can attack as well as any - and have the  fire power to capitalise....

We just lack defensive structures/systems. Lyon's specialty seemingly.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #32
In the post match presser, Teague chided one of the reporters called Tom (Browne or Morris ?) for suggesting that he had lost support of the senior players. Teague said that simply isn't true, and it cut him a little deeply.
He gave Browne his just deserts and rightly so.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #33
Lyon is a massive step up on Teague.

DT has shown himself, on multiple occasions, to be pretty much clueless come match day.

And very weak defensively.

Is that on him or his assistants?

Both.

I've seen nothing - zero, nada - to suggest DT can get us to finals, let alone a flag.

Some of the losses to lower teams were inexcusable.

Some of the match committee decisions during the year were simply inexcusable.

Lyon got both the Saints and Freo to GFs with lesser lists than we have presently.

We can attack as well as any - and have the  fire power to capitalise....

We just lack defensive structures/systems. Lyon's specialty seemingly.


You can only make a rash assessment of a coach after 50 games in 2 interrupted seasons. Neither Clarkson nor Hardwick etc. looked like flag coaches after 50 games. I disagree that the Saints and Freo lists were lesser than ours. And Harry McKay will probably start looking for a new home.

We can all see how many flags, GF's, coaches have in their past, but that's irrelevant to us. We need to know how many flags they have in their future. We've been seduced by coaches with previous success before, and got burnt, twice. The model that gives the best chance for success is right before our eyes - stability, unity and build from within, but for whatever reason, we can't see it, or refuse to embrace it.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #34
Just on Lyon...
Nick Riewoldt spoke earlier in the week and said the players were quite shocked (he literally woke up from Surgery with Lyon at the foot of his bed to tell him first hand) but he said they understand. Without saying it, he pointed the finger squarely at the powers that be above Lyon. They either pushed him, or made it untenable for him.

I can't speak on Freo, but Riewoldt suggested there would be very much the same kind of love from the players that he gets from the Saints boys. Perhaps similar occurred there.

TBH, i think i'm warming to the idea of Ross Lyon.
He's already been at the club and knows how it works.
He is media savvy and knows how to handle questions, and can give a slap if required.
He has plenty of friends in the media which should help keep the wolves at bay and ease the pressure usually turned up on the Carlton coach.
He's had (almost) success at 2 clubs, both clubs have been basket cases otherwise.

Is there anyone more qualified to take over the role, specifically at our club.
I'm leaning the other way now on Lyon and not neccessarily because of coaching ability I might add. He should have STFU Wed night on FC IMO.
To answer your last question, yes Clarkson but I think he is going to take a year off by the sound of it. So Teague either survives  for another year or if change is deemed necessary now it's probably Lyon. Another question is will Lyon pass the character test in the interview with our female board members Pratt and Kinnersly.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #35
The 2013 GF teams.

Note Neale was Freo's sub and this was before Fyfe became a real force.....

Saints in 2010....
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #36
There's plenty of quality on the Saints list, you could argue the toss of the coin on the Freo list.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #37
You can only make a rash assessment of a coach after 50 games in 2 interrupted seasons. Neither Clarkson nor Hardwick etc. looked like flag coaches after 50 games. I disagree that the Saints and Freo lists were lesser than ours. And Harry McKay will probably start looking for a new home.

We can all see how many flags, GF's, coaches have in their past, but that's irrelevant to us. We need to know how many flags they have in their future. We've been seduced by coaches with previous success before, and got burnt, twice. The model that gives the best chance for success is right before our eyes - stability, unity and build from within, but for whatever reason, we can't see it, or refuse to embrace it.

Rash?

Hardly? Will Teague improve? Maybe, maybe not. No certainty at all.

Should he be given the largesse Hardwick was afforded? Maybe, maybe not.

Comparing his track record with other coaches is fraught with danger.....

I've put up the teams in those GFs by the way.

Have a crack!

Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #38
With a starting spine of Jones Weitering Cripps/Walsh Chuck McKay, with handy players like Saad, Newman and Williams, plus kids like TDK,  Stocker,  Walsh,  Kemp. Owies and Honey, whomever is coach in 22 has a fair bit to work with.  No more excuses.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #39
With a starting spine of Jones Weitering Cripps/Walsh Chuck McKay, with handy players like Saad, Newman and Williams, plus kids like TDK,  Stocker,  Walsh,  Kemp. Owies and Honey, whomever is coach in 22 has a fair bit to work with.  No more excuses.

Provided of course that the required reforms within the club are properly addressed.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #40
Lyon is a massive step up on Teague.

DT has shown himself, on multiple occasions, to be pretty much clueless come match day.

And very weak defensively.

Is that on him or his assistants?

Both.

I've seen nothing - zero, nada - to suggest DT can get us to finals, let alone a flag.

Some of the losses to lower teams were inexcusable.

Some of the match committee decisions during the year were simply inexcusable.

Lyon got both the Saints and Freo to GFs with lesser lists than we have presently.

We can attack as well as any - and have the  fire power to capitalise....

We just lack defensive structures/systems. Lyon's specialty seemingly.

Not fully convinced on Lyon. Not sure his style suits our list. We've always done best with coaches that attack more. Defence orientated coaches have gone by the wayside. Just need a proper balance.

Saints GF's were the decade before last. Last 3 years of his coaching he was an upgrade in that he beat Teague's 19 successive goals with 23 in 2018 and 12 of his 17 10 goal defeats were in his last 3 years. Looking at that he has Carlton written all over him....lol! Did he have lesser lists? Doubt it.

I was more impressed by Clarko's hunger to learn yesterday. I would prefer to let Teague coach out his contract and if he struggles then chase Clarko hard. Teague, with proper support and help, could sort out the defensive aspects and improve on his 2nd best record at this club in the last 20 years. Not to mention alot more scoreboard competitiveness. Wouldn't be the first in recent times to come good after a review put things in place for him.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #41
To answer your last question, yes Clarkson but I think he is going to take a year off by the sound of it. S

More qualified? Yes.
More qualified to coach us? I disagree.

Ross knows more about our club. Ross knows more about other clubs in general. Clarko has been in the same job for how many years know? I see him, and i think Pagan. Good coach with some of the best players going around.....no good anywhere else.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #42
The prospect of Teague coaching the final year of his contract next makes me feel ill.
If he is retained beyond Monday he must get a contract extension !!!
Can you imagine the past 4 weeks running all through the preseason and then the home and away ??
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #43
Can you imagine the past 4 weeks running all through the preseason and then the home and away ??
It's been running since about Rnd 2 this year, when we'd lost the first games.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 23: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #44
Well, that was a lot closer than I thought it would be. You have to give Teague credit for getting the boys up and about and staying in the game after last week's demoralising effort.

Realistically, without Jones and McKay, we are never going to trouble teams with their full quota of KPPs.  Weitering is forced to focus on defending dourly and his intercept marking and creative use of the ball is sacrificed/missed.  That said, keeping GWS to 12 goals was a decent effort and a credit to Plowman, Newman, Williamson, Kemp, Stocker and Saad who all found themselves competing against bigger, stronger opponents.  I think Kemp is going to be a ripper.

At the other end of the ground, we had three underdone tall forwards, an ageing maestro, and a couple of kids.  Scoring 11 goals was admirable, even if 4 of them came from the indefatigable Ed Curnow.

Yes, we conceded a run of goals again, but we fought back and, with an ounce of luck and sighted umpires, we could have snatched the win.

It was nice to see Eddie add to his goal tally but I think that his time has come.  Levi was good, and if his knee holds up, I reckon we'll see him running around again next season.

Was that enough for Teague to keep his job?  I'd like to think so.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball