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Messages - PaulP

31
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
I think the "times are tough" argument is pretty weak. To give one example among many, there are people around who spend hundreds of dollars on football memberships, tickets, merch, travel, hotels etc. if their team make finals in a different city. But somehow, standing in that booth on Saturday, with that dinky little pencil in your hand, you can't write the word "yes" because there's a cost of living crisis.

Yeah, not buying it.
35
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
Quote from: Lods on
It'd be interesting to see if that vote held up.
A lot of non-indigenous people who were intending to vote 'yes' changed their minds during the course of the year.
I'm sure the majority of indigenous people still supported the yes  vote...but for those, if any, who changed their minds I wonder what caused that change.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-02/fact-check-indigenous-australians-support-for-the-voice/102673042

For those interested, this piece does a bit of a deep dive into this question. As I often say, both God and the devil reside in the detail. At any rate, despite what the politicians say, we are essentially back to square one IMO.
36
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
There were two surveys commissioned earlier this year (January and March I believe) canvassing First Nations people and their thoughts on The Voice. 80% in one survey and 83% in the other said they would vote yes. All surveys have limits, and these two are no exception. However big or small the sample spaces may be, they have to be more representative than what people are supposedly hearing. 
37
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
Discussions around constitutional recognition for our First Nations people were happening 100 years ago. And what’s the result of a century of stop start, on off discussions ? A resounding no vote. Well, you can’t rush these things I guess. We clearly need a few more select committees, another dozen or so advisory groups, a parliamentary committee or two, and then, most importantly, some thinking time. Maybe in 100 years we can have another referendum.

As watered down and wussy as the Voice was , it’s still better than nothing, and still better than what we have now.  A unique moment in history, and what do we serve up ? A swing and a miss. Well played.
38
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
Quote from: Lods on
You know in some ways this referendum may have some positive effects.

One of my main concerns was the level of disappointment that a 'No' vote would have on many first nations people who will be naturally be disppointed by the result.

But it's now firmly on the agenda.
I can see Voice committees being established at various levels of government.
Even those politicians advocating a 'No' vote were at pains to say that whatever the result there were indigenous issues that need addressing.
We'll see how their words will translate into actions.

Again....the important thing is not the voice...it's listening to it, and acting on it.

Well, I guess we'll know in the next decade or so. I'm not hopeful, because I think all these committees you refer to are essentially a way of dragging the discussion on and on, to ensure that nothing actually gets done. Just constantly delaying any action for as long as humanly possible. Traditionally Labor governments are reform governments, and history in our country shows very clearly that people don't like reform.
39
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
Quote from: Lods on
Fair dinkum...there is some absolutely absurd judgements being made..............................


Don't worry Lods. You're one of the "good" Queenslanders lol.

I'm not sure you can overstate the importance of a constitutionally recognised Voice. It's not just words on a piece of paper. Having Indigenous groups advising at state and local level is all well and good, but it's not the same as the Voice. The Voice provides a way to have some coordination of diverse indigenous issues, and a way to really have a seat at the table.

So, how about that Treaty that's been on the agenda for decades ? All those in favour......
40
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
Quote from: Thryleon on
The majority of Australians disagree Paul.

I based most of my decision making listening to last week's televised show where Lydia Thorpe and Jacinta Nampijinpa Price were chatting with Ray Martin about indigenous affairs, and the referendum including all the bells and whistles.

I have to say, that they made a lot more compelling points on reasons to vote no, and the yes vote had no substance to add to the debate.

The majority of Australians have shown their hand, and I'll leave it that.

I've listened to the Indigenous speakers on the no side, and whilst I can see some of the points they make, I think their overall strategy is wrong, and their ends would have been better off with a yes vote.
41
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
Quote from: Thryleon on
Why so you say that?  Because no won?  This doesn't make the country against indigenous affairs or for it.  It makes the nation unconvinced that the yes no referendum would make any difference and would simply lead to another mouth feeding at the trough of politics. 

Another one who seems to think that the outcome of a poorly articulated and scoped referendum not getting up says more about the public than those in parliament proposing this rubbish.

What were we actually voting for?  The answer is nothing. It's wel known that the indigenous people don't have one united voice.  They have multiple languages, tribes, and people.  One voice was never going to be sufficient but i heard from the minister of Indigenous affairs last week, and instantly thought to myself should this seat not be our indigenous voice to parliament?

What about the democratic process means the indigenous people have no voice?

What is stopping the indigenous people from forming a party for this reason and running for election?

We are currently in the midst of one of the poorest economic situations the country has seen during my lifetime, and we have just thrown 100s of millions away on a referendum that has no scope.

That is political suicide.

There was plenty of material out there if you care to look, that gives careful and considered explanations on all matters relating to the Voice. I certainly don't blame the politicians. That's a total cop out in my view.

The Voice was intended to be the first step in a multi step process that addressees issues relating to First Nations people. I cannot think of one single good reason to vote no. I can think of several bad ones with very little effort.
42
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
Good to see Victoria leading the way with the yes vote, with NSW not far behind. As for Queensland, red necks to the bitter end.
43
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: The Voice
You can certainly quibble about whether such a referendum was necessary at this point, but once the decision was made, the opportunity should've been taken. We seem to lack the confidence, ethics and maturity to deal with adult issues in an adult way, so the end result is that we are once again hostage to inertia, ostrich behaviour, political opportunism and all the rest.
45
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL 2023 Preliminary Final Carlton vs Brisbane Post Game Prognostications
Managing moments is all the rage with coaches at the moment. I try and watch as many press conferences as I can, and I can't recall a coach saying they lost because they lacked balance. Undoubtedly there are competing parameters that need to be complimentary in some fashion (tall v small, size and strength v pace, endurance v burst power, extractor v distributor etc.), but I'd guess it's one ball among many that coaches need to juggle.