Carlton Supporters Club

Not at all 'cheesy', Pauly. Not at all. Truth. The truth might sound cheesy and we might be a little shy to advance such observations in such a critical world, but the truth has a strength of its own which is inspiring and terrifying... depending on where you're at.

Change is happening, excruciatingly slowly... but it's happening. Tiny revolution after tiny revolution. The up side of cameras, TV and social media (when operating at their ethical best) is accountability. Exposure. Appalling behaviour is finding fewer and fewer places to hide. But we've a long way to go, and need to remain as vigilant as Rosa Parks back in the mid 50s on that bus... and as much that has changed for African American folk since then, it needs to change as much again. We tend to measure change in terms of our own lifetimes or the ideal of going straight from ignorance to enlightenment... understandable, but a dash naive. We've a lot of paddock to hoe along with plenty of blood, sweat and tears (shout out to David Clayton-Thomas).

Humans have been prejudiced against anyone seen as 'different' since time immemorial. Religion against religion, neighbour against neighbour, tribe against tribe, suburb against suburb, state against state, national against nation, culture against culture and so on, ad infinitum. Sheesh, so many of us are at war within ourselves, FFS. Prejudice is embedded in our hearts... holding hands with fear, well, often it is simply just that - fear. That's why your comment aint cheesy, but we are changing in the right direction with our hoe hitting stumps and mud and other obstacles, but it is happening.

I've seen some footage of why they may have taken the actions they did with Floyd.

Not to condone kneeling on a bloke for 8 minutes.  There was clearly a lack of empathy here, nor much care. 

Let's just say he wasn't complying with police instructions and was resisting arrest.   Ever wondered why there are 4 officers to arrest 1 bloke?

All could have been avoided if he just got in the squad car like they were trying to before they pinned him down.

Amazing how we don't hear about that part.  Doesn't fit the agenda.

The cop didn't just kneel on the bloke, he did so on his neck... The cop didn't need to engage any empathy, just to use 'reasonable' force and not 'excessive' force - intelligence/policy rather than aggression. I don't care if Floyd was a serial killer or a direct descendant of Christ himself, his death was wrong and should not have happened. And, as it happened, his death was the 100th monkey; tipping point; the final straw; the match that lit the tinderbox ...of overwhelming present day and historic injustice afforded African American's in the US.

Arguments that with Floyd being an alleged crim it somehow justifies or lessens the injustice he received, are dangerous and dumb. (Same kind of reprehensible and just plain stupid logic used by that Neanderthal judge who claimed that raping a prostitute is somehow not nearly as bad as raping a woman who is not a prostitute).

In the words of one of the world's great leaders, Martin Luther King Jnr... 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'

Well said, I just wish that in a world we also want to stamp out violence against women and children, which has also been happening for centuries, we (as Australians) afforded a similar level of scrutiny when Justine Damond was murdered in her PJs by one of the very officers whom she actually called.

If you've seen lots of white neighbourhoods, and you've seen lots of black neighbourhoods, as Hedges has, you may be inclined to join the dots and connect race to wealth.

Perhaps if the observer has selective vision.

There are just as many poor Caucasians in Brooklyn as there are poor African Americans in Harlem, and it's only a 10 min drive apart!

Even worse down south in North or South Carolina, motor homes and high density apartment blocks are 50/50 and still effectively divided based on skin colour to this day, If going to Atlanta on business you can take a look down from an office block elevated walkway or executive balcony to the ground level, you will see alternating groups of Caucasians and African Americans huddled around cooling towers keeping warn in winter. But the media only ever report the downtrodden on one side of this debate, while making inbreed jokes about the other! We don't have to discuss the Appalachians, El Paso or other similar areas either, quickly you see this problem is not as anisotropic as the media make out!

I realise the USA has embedded institutionalised racism, and it varies widely from state to state, but it has a uniform prejudice towards the poor.

In the USA most people that I've encountered believe being poor is your own fault, it's because of something you've done wrong, or God punishing you for being a bad person, an idiot or just plain lazy! That embedded opinion doesn't matter if you are black, white, yellow, brown, pink, orange or green!

You can cut the statistics any way you like - in terms of numbers, whites make up the greatest majority of the US population. Hispanics and blacks have much smaller numbers, yet these two groups make up the biggest numbers of poor people. And I'm sure that if you include prison populations, undocumented workers etc., the numbers would be higher. 

True, I understand.

But maybe the dynamic size of any one ghetto has as much to do about town planning, management and social issues as it does how may of each type fit in!

Many things in life are interdependent - it's folly to think you can change one thing and expect big improvements. Race is enmeshed with several other things that would create the problem, but there's no doubt that race is a big part of the problem, probably the biggest.

Cookie2, thanks for the links.

FYI, while I'm not commenting on those articles as I haven't yet read them yet, I've worked in places including Arizona and Carolina, commuting to places Wisconsin, Washington and Illinois. At one stage I use to commute between Australia and Arizona on a 4 day cycle, so I've had lots of air miles. My next door neighbour spent almost 15 years living and working in the USA. Between us we've seen a good chunk of life in Joe Average USA and reality is far far away from the bulk of articles published by think tanks or the media. Independence and Freedom of Speech is a myth in the USA, it's the great lie.

I'm not really a fan of the "my personal experiences" approach to research and fact finding, unless they form part of a larger, more comprehensive study - the temptation for myopia and confirmation bias is too strong IMO. Studies that take a broader view, including statistics and personal experiences, but know to interpret this information sensibly, are the most valuable IMO.

And whilst I'm not cookie2, I'm flattered that you think I am.

Well, that applies to many of the authors also, very few of those media or think-tank types go to the areas they write about!

Have I any special insights, probably not, but I did spend a decade working for News Ltd, and continued travelling to those areas after I left News Ltd, so I've seen the perspective from both sides of the media fence, friend and foe.

The cop didn't just kneel on the bloke, he did so on his neck... The cop didn't need to engage any empathy, just to use 'reasonable' force and not 'excessive' force - intelligence/policy rather than aggression. I don't care if Floyd was a serial killer or a direct descendant of Christ himself, his death was wrong and should not have happened. And, as it happened, his death was the 100th monkey; tipping point; the final straw; the match that lit the tinderbox ...of overwhelming present day and historic injustice afforded African American's in the US.

Arguments that with Floyd being an alleged crim it somehow justifies or lessens the injustice he received, are dangerous and dumb. (Same kind of reprehensible and just plain stupid logic used by that Neanderthal judge who claimed that raping a prostitute is somehow not nearly as bad as raping a woman who is not a prostitute).

In the words of one of the world's great leaders, Martin Luther King Jnr... 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.'