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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong
Last post by LP -
Quote from: Lods on
He's come in for some severe criticism so the onus is on him now to prove his mettle.
It's a character test for him, and he has the talent to rise to it...it's whether he has the attitude and will.
@Lods Fans carry on a bit, they bang on about it was just an arm across the body, no force, etc., etc..

But from an AFL perspective that delay from somewhat trivial contact costs you 2 or 3 steps, and 2 or 3 steps of an AFL player on the move is 6 or 7 metres, you'll never close the gap unless you are chasing a dullard like Riewoldt.

In NRL, they look for shoulder to shoulder, if a player is detained illegally it's a professional foul with either a send off, a penalty try or sometimes both! The AFL need to look at this as part of the score review chain, to stop those two bullcrap incidents enacted by Handbagger players.

I don't care if it's in the fall of the ball zone, I want to see the contest in that zone, but this sh1zen happening 20m or 30m away from the footy is a joke. Scott's learned that his blokes can get away with if it's far enough off the ball, and it delivers them a field wide overlap.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong
Last post by LP -
What happened to Williams has always been a free, his flopping is a symptom of the Handbaggers being allowed to scrag and delay players way off the ball. Even if he wasn't scraged it's unlikely he would have got half way to the opponent before they scored, it's the absence of the free that changed the game not Williams ability to get near the fall of the ball.

The discussion about Williams is a smokescreen to stop the focus on an illegal Handbagger tactics, nothing more and nothing less.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong
Last post by madbluboy -
Quote from: Blue Moon on
I wondered whether the Fox commentators would admit they got it wrong on the Williams incident after the MRO handed out a fine but I didn't think so. They have now doubled down and called for his dropping. Do these people ever wonder why no one actually like them.

He was terrible. Defence wins premierships and he can't defend. With Saad and McGovern we can afford to have him there for his rebound but not now.

Ironically we played better when he went off against the Giants.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong
Last post by Gointocarlton -
Quote from: LP on
Yet I wouldn't say the defensive problems are a function of our defence.

I'd assert, many of the shortfalls come from the other end of the ground or perhaps the midfield. It's possibly being masked by some players having good tackling or 1%er stats, but the counts can be misleading, it's far more important to know where and when they collect those stats.

For example, how many times did a Tuohy or Guthrie type find themselves unattended just outside of goal range, and Cameron for that matter? How many times was Cameron unattended exiting our F50, the escape kick, then became a target a kick or two later inside our D50? There is next to nothing the defence can do about that, the problem starts further up the field and it's not about body type or size, it's about evening up the numbers and closing down space.

Many times the Handbaggers were actually forced by our defence to pause entering our D50, and yet they still ended up with a loose player as a target inside F50, that player comes from somewhere in the overlap created outside of the arc.
Sometimes perfectly executed passes make it look like the defenders arent doing their job. Geel on Sat reminded me of the the Hawks during their premiership years with all those deadly left footers hitting targets in traffic at will.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong
Last post by LP -
Yet I wouldn't say the defensive problems are a function of our defence.

I'd assert, many of the shortfalls come from the other end of the ground or perhaps the midfield. It's possibly being masked by some players having good tackling or 1%er stats, but the counts can be misleading, it's far more important to know where and when they collect those stats.

For example, how many times did a Tuohy or Guthrie type find themselves unattended just outside of goal range, and Cameron for that matter? How many times was Cameron unattended exiting our F50, the escape kick, then became a target a kick or two later inside our D50? There is next to nothing the defence can do about that, the problem starts further up the field and it's not about body type or size, it's about evening up the numbers and closing down space.

Many times the Handbaggers were actually forced by our defence to pause entering our D50, and yet they still ended up with a loose player as a target inside F50, that player comes from somewhere in the overlap created outside of the arc.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong
Last post by blueboys_1 -
Quote from: laj on
The positive is we did near everything wrong, defensively terrible, never really switched on properly, little focus on our basics, half the side out and lost by just 13pts.

The negative is we did near everything wrong, defensively terrible, never really switched on properly, little focus on our basics and if that doesn't improve then getting blokes back won't help as it should. Pressure rating spent much of the day in the 160s, only going over 200 when we were a few goals behind.

Last week was similar until mid-way through the 3rd qtr where every changed once we were 20pts down. Pressure rating went from the 150s straight to 240 and stayed there changing the game. Maybe we thought we could get away with it again and didn't.

I followed the pressure ratings the last 2 weeks and it rose massively once we fell behind. Once we raised it both GWS and Geelong had issues with it. Yesterday, not long enough.

Thinking after that presser from Voss that defensively we will be way better next week. Won't be 118 to 105 again.

Been thinking that the last 3 weeks the opposition is scoring very easily against us on transition Listening to Sunday pre game and they were talking about our Defensive transition I think and came up with the following stats.

Adelaide: 25 scoring shots from 49 entries.

GWS: 27 scoring shots from 51 entries.

Geelong: 28 scoring shots from 45 entries.

Better than 50% from each team.

That will not stand up in finals.

Good thing is it is something that can be fixed and worked on during the season.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong
Last post by LP -
Quote from: kruddler on
Once we start getting players back, if you want to play both rucks in your 22, you are leaving out someone like Kennedy, Cottrell, Hollands (x2), Williams.....etc.
The above assertion is just an extension of the media trying to peg Voss on a fixed selection strategy, nobody should be gifted a spot, the MC should not take a formulaic approach. the real world is not like Supercoach.

Week to week MC selections should be based on merit, conditions and the strategy of the day. I hope our MC will be clever enough to analyse and pick the eyes out of the best strategies for each opponent, some weeks we might go tall, some weeks we might go small.

Every week the opposition will try to leverage our deficiencies, if we are predictable it becomes easier for them, like last weekend kicking it on the head of Charlie or BigH who were stuck between 2 or 3 defenders.
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Robert Heatley Stand / Re: AFL Rd 7 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler on
Right now, i'd drop Young for Cincotta. Give Kemp the lockdown role and allow Cincotta to cover the intercept role, which adds more run.

When the game starts getting wetter, you'd think about dropping one more tall. We'll wait and see who is out of form at the time.
The decision is made easier right now because we don't have Silvagni available, or any other option for 3rd tall.

There was never any doubt about their 'styles of ruck' or that they compliment eachother. The issue was they they were both doing not very much around the ground.....at all.
TDK was lacking in ruck area, and performing worse than Silvagni as a forward......but better than Pittonet as a non-ruck option.
Pittonet was performing better in the ruck, but not doing enough around the ground.

BOTH of them are not only performing better around the ground, but both are being genuine options around the ground and up forward.
Pittonet kicked a goal first game back. TDK kicked 3 last week, and 0.3 this week. I showed stats on pittonets ruck AND around the ground work and how it was the same or better than both rucks combined....and even 2 mids combined in clearances.
That kind of form from both of them was nowhere to be seen last year. THAT is what has changed......and thankfully its changed when the cupboard is very bare behind them.

However,
Once we start getting players back, if you want to play both rucks in your 22, you are leaving out someone like Kennedy, Cottrell, Hollands (x2), Williams.....etc.

That would be sad (the bit in bold) but maybe necessary…because right now both Rucks offer more than most (if not all) of those mentioned in terms of game influence. The other thing is that it assumes all those players are in form and uninjured. If we only need to lose one to play the two rucks it probably won’t be an issue.
The important thing is both our Ruckman continue to stay healthy and maintain a degree of form. They will no doubt have a poor game here or there, but it would probably need to be a patch of multiple poor games before one loses their spot. DeKoning is still improving, and time together can only develop the combination and understanding with Pittonet

Wet weather during winter may be an issue and it may be a time when the one ruck option is looked at. But it won’t rain all winter, and games at Marvel are a ‘non-issue’ as will be most of the interstate games.

There’s a bit of a contradiction in your post. A lot of it is about the ‘future’(when it rains, when players return from injury) and what might happen, yet the judgements made on the two-ruck situation were made in the ‘present of 2023’ when there were aspects of both players not up to scratch, and both struggled a bit with injury at stages during the season.
Judging in the present is also one of the issues with statistics. They are a measure of the past, (even last weekend’s statistics). A string of good games by a player and those early season statistics can alter dramatically.

We don’t know what will happen in the games to come and a whole lot of variables will come into play. The team we’re playing at ‘present’ may be completely different to the side that takes the field at the end of the year. We may get players back… and/or (perish the thought) we may lose important players. There’s not a lot of point predicting a line-up with a full side to choose from, because that’s a pretty unlikely scenario.

If we do have a full side to choose from, they might as well just give us the cup.