Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on March 02, 2020, 07:52:00 am

Title: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: crashlander on March 02, 2020, 07:52:00 am
At least this is in Melbourne, so I might see it.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 05, 2020, 08:34:40 pm
B: K.Simpson 6 C.Marchbank 22 L.Jones 14
HB: S.Docherty - C 15 J.Weitering 23 N.Newman 24
C: W.Setterfield 43 P.Cripps 9 J.Newnes 32
HF: J.Silvagni 1 L.Casboult 41 M.Gibbons 40
F: E.Betts 19 M.McGovern 11 Z.Fisher 25
Foll: M.Kreuzer 8 S.Walsh 18 P.Dow 2
I/C: C.Polson 29 L.Plowman 20 T.Williamson 31 E.Curnow 35 T.De Koning 12 M.Murphy 3 J.Martin 21 M.Kennedy 7 M.Pittonet 27 S.Petrevski-Seton 5 D.Cuningham 28 S.Philp 34

In: C.Marchbank, P.Cripps, E.Betts, M.McGovern, L.Plowman, M.Murphy
Out: R.Sturgess (Omitted), C.Moore (Omitted), D.Lang (Omitted)

Unless there are lots of injuries, probably the last game Lang has played in the seniors...
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: capcom on March 05, 2020, 08:52:47 pm
Unless there are lots of injuries, probably the last game Lang has played in the seniors...

I NEVER want to see him again.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: DJC on March 05, 2020, 09:13:41 pm
"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?"

I'm more interested in the inclusions; Marchbank wasn't supposed to be match ready for months, McGovern likewise, and we've got Crippa, Murph, Eddie, Plow and Samo back  :)
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 05, 2020, 09:47:12 pm
"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves?"

I'm more interested in the inclusions; Marchbank wasn't supposed to be match ready for months, McGovern likewise, and we've got Crippa, Murph, Eddie, Plow and Samo back  :)

Ah, yes, Sgt Oddball... a great quote!

So... David, how about this... wrapped to see Edwardo, Brackets, Crippa & co back in the lineup. Ditto, Marchbank and SPS. Bring on Sunday.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 05, 2020, 09:54:57 pm
15 years ago Eddie and Simmo played in the last game at Ikon Park.
They both play together this weekend in a game at Ikon Park.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 05, 2020, 10:13:49 pm
how many interchange players are allowed?

Of the 12 on the bench, certs for Rd 1 are Ed C, Murph, SPS, Plow and Martin.

So guys like Jack, Gibbons, Newnes, Dow, Marchy and Cuners are fighting for a couple of spots.

Doc's a lock too (ditto Weiters and Jones) and Simmo for the moment. Plow has earnt a spot too.

6th spot - Newman, Newnes, SPS, Marchbank...tough call!!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: townsendcalling on March 05, 2020, 11:09:58 pm
Doesn’t look good for O’Brien. Will need to work hard to earn a place.  Also Gibbons recovered well from his ‘fractured ankle’!!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 05, 2020, 11:45:26 pm
Where’s stocker as well? Got to be a better bet than polson, has he been injured preseason? Had high hopes for him
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: WASurfer on March 06, 2020, 12:21:19 pm
Agree 31TB.....other than a good mark last week, Polson showed nothing and is surely way back in the pecking order? On work rate alone, I'd have Silvagni in the starting 22 every week. He offers so much more than Lang or Kennedy. And time for Dow to step up a bit too.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 06, 2020, 02:27:08 pm
God knows why Lang and Polson got contract extensions.

Still think Kennedy can be a  player but like a few others, he needs to start bringing/showing it!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 06, 2020, 02:44:39 pm
Doesn’t look good for O’Brien. Will need to work hard to earn a place.  Also Gibbons recovered well from his ‘fractured ankle’!!

I'd have Dow in the same category, both would be starting in the NB's this season IMO.
Gibbons will get games because he works hard..
Betts, Martin, Newnes as new ins plus Docherty/Williamson back have really made it hard for some of the other fringe players and Cuningham if he stays fit also comes into contention. Great for the list and selectors having more depth but for a few players it could be the beginning of the end.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 06, 2020, 03:09:01 pm
I'd have Dow in the same category, both would be starting in the NB's this season IMO.
Gibbons will get games because he works hard..
Betts, Martin, Newnes as new ins plus Docherty/Williamson back have really made it hard for some of the other fringe players and Cuningham if he stays fit also comes into contention. Great for the list and selectors having more depth but for a few players it could be the beginning of the end.

Yes, the situation a team must have to improve - real, constant competition for spots.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 06, 2020, 04:11:11 pm
I'd have Dow in the same category, both would be starting in the NB's this season IMO.
Gibbons will get games because he works hard..
Betts, Martin, Newnes as new ins plus Docherty/Williamson back have really made it hard for some of the other fringe players and Cuningham if he stays fit also comes into contention. Great for the list and selectors having more depth but for a few players it could be the beginning of the end.
I wasn't that impressed with Newnes so far, he looked to be going 100% or at least close to his limit in a game that seemed to have opposition going at half rat power.

But I'm not putting much stock in pre-season stuff, it's like dancing with your sister!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 06, 2020, 05:55:18 pm
God knows why Lang and Polson got contract extensions.

Still think Kennedy can be a  player but like a few others, he needs to start bringing/showing it!

Reckon Kennedy has a chance with some of our forwards injured/underdone and showed a bit last season when played forward.
I wouldnt be that keen to shove him out the door in comparison to Lang, Polson and a couple of others.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 06, 2020, 06:07:58 pm
I wasn't that impressed with Newnes so far, he looked to be going 100% or at least close to his limit in a game that seemed to have opposition going at half rat power.

But I'm not putting much stock in pre-season stuff, it's like dancing with your sister!
Newnes has proven he is good for 20 possies a game @decent DE% over 150 games so I would expect him to improve with every game. Richmond is a hard ask first up given their depth of talent and he might get a more negative role on a player like Edwards so his stats might not be so flash to begin with but I think he will end up a regular player for most of the season.
Its going to be interesting to see the game plan vs Richmond...will it be a shootout or a defensive squeeze where some attacking players are forced to be a bit more responsible and be mindful of the opposition.
eg someone will have to be accountable for a player like Houli, he cant be getting 30 possies and generating the drive he does
from halfback especially on the switch when we turn it over usually by a dumb extra disposal or long bomb to nothing.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 07, 2020, 09:29:43 am
Final side for Sunday announced, with emergencies announced of: Cuningham, Kennedy, Pittonet and Willo.

I guess Polson's speed gets him a nod.

Surprised Willo named as an emergency, he wasn't the only one below par last week but he didn't look himself - could be still working his way into regaining touch (though the first qtr against Rottingwood he looked great!).

Why the hell we gave Cuningham an extended contract is beyond me - the Cameo King.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 07, 2020, 10:21:45 am
Loins refuse to give CEY a game until he earns his chance.

While we persist with Lang Polson Dekoning and Dow.  And can add in Kennedy and Cunningham’s for blokes that have had too many chances and extended contracts when form didn’t warrant it. I rate Cunningham but how long do you wait. The bloke is now in his 5th season.

Loins are where we should be yet we are miles off and we started our rebuild a year earlier. Go figure.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 07, 2020, 11:10:06 am
Final side for Sunday announced, with emergencies announced of: Cuningham, Kennedy, Pittonet and Willo.

I guess Polson's speed gets him a nod.

Surprised Willo named as an emergency, he wasn't the only one below par last week but he didn't look himself - could be still working his way into regaining touch (though the first qtr against Rottingwood he looked great!).

Why the hell we gave Cuningham an extended contract is beyond me - the Cameo King.

PS Seems we have two threads the same here... this one and a Blues V Lions... perhaps a merge?
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 07, 2020, 11:41:51 am
PS Seems we have two threads the same here... this one and a Blues V Lions... perhaps a merge?
You're not allowed(socially) to have a thread on here were the opposition get named first, even if it's our away game. They've corrected me several times, and so that critical piece of information gets discarded.

I don't think some of the youngies know how the home and away draw works! ;)
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 07, 2020, 01:42:48 pm
Newnes has proven he is good for 20 possies a game @decent DE% over 150 games so I would expect him to improve with every game. Richmond is a hard ask first up given their depth of talent and he might get a more negative role on a player like Edwards so his stats might not be so flash to begin with but I think he will end up a regular player for most of the season.

I came to respond to the same post you did......basically saying the same exact thing i've been saying for 6+months.

I didn't need to because you've basically said it verbatim for me.

At least the message is getting through to some.  ;)
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 07, 2020, 02:42:18 pm
A
Loins refuse to give CEY a game until he earns his chance.

While we persist with Lang Polson Dekoning and Dow.  And can add in Kennedy and Cunningham’s for blokes that have had too many chances and extended contracts when form didn’t warrant it. I rate Cunningham but how long do you wait. The bloke is now in his 5th season.

Loins are where we should be yet we are miles off and we started our rebuild a year earlier. Go figure.

Yet we dismantled them last year - not sure we were that far behind them then.

And they aren't adding the likes of Betts, Doc and Martin to their best 22.

And lost Hodge to boot. Interesting that Hodge played till he was 35 yet many suggest Betts is a has been at 33.

Joke!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 07, 2020, 03:28:12 pm
And lost Hodge to boot. Interesting that Hodge played till he was 35 yet many suggest Betts is a has been at 33.

Joke!
Love your loyalty, but the joke is comparing Hodge to Betts!

As a team and club General, Hodge on half of a good leg with two broken arms would still be an upgrade!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 07, 2020, 04:40:18 pm
A
Yet we dismantled them last year - not sure we were that far behind them then.

And they aren't adding the likes of Betts, Doc and Martin to their best 22.

And lost Hodge to boot. Interesting that Hodge played till he was 35 yet many suggest Betts is a has been at 33.

Joke!

Fly I love your positively at this time of the year (even though it’s usually gone by round 6) but sorry I just don’t see it.

Doc is a star and once he get into the year I 100% agree we will be better with him in there. Betts will provide something even if for a year or two only till hopefully we get Papely but Martin I’m afraid is the same jury out boat as Kennedy, Settlefield, Dow, obrien, DeKoning, Cunningham and even fisher, Williamson and Marchbank you could add it that list if we took the blue glasses off.
Too many on here pencil these blokes in like they are certainties. Far from it imo.

None habe proven more then the odd good game her and there. All have potential. So what. Every team has these sorts we have lots but until they do what Walsh did last year and do it week in week out they are not players I lock in yet and hence why I still think we won’t trouble many sides this year except the bottom 2-3.

Hope I’m wrong but history tells me I won’t be.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 07, 2020, 05:41:27 pm
Backs:            6. Kade Simpson   22. Caleb Marchbank    14. Liam Jones
Half-backs:   15. Sam Docherty    23. Jacob Weitering    24. Nic Newman
Centreline:   43. Will Setterfield    9. Patrick Cripps    32. Jack Newnes
Half-forwards:   1. Jack Silvagni    41. Levi Casboult    40. Michael Gibbons
Forwards:           19. Eddie Betts   11. Mitch McGovern   25. Zac Fisher
Followers:   8. Matthew Kreuzer    18. Sam Walsh    2. Paddy Dow
Interchange:   29. Cameron Polson    20. Lachie Plowman   5. Sam Petrevski-Seton
    35. Ed Curnow    12. Tom De Koning   3. Marc Murphy
    21. Jack Martin   34. Sam Philp    
Emergencies:    28. David Cuningham   27. Marc Pittonet   31. Tom Williamson
    7. Matthew Kennedy

Looking forward to seeing this game (through Kayo 14 day free trial) as the Fluffy Ones will no doubt be smarting just a little after what we did to them last year after they held a 37pt lead. You can expect some pretty serious stuff... as will no doubt be the case with all the final Marsh games.

Ps and only vaguely related. Tech advice needed. I signed up for the 2 week free trial of Kayo and we couldn't get it to work properly on my computer... continual load wheels spinning - hour on the phone with tech support and they couldn't fix it either.

So, I'm finally going to ditch this ASUS piece of crap in a few months, but what to replace it with. Only 5 years old but every year something packed up - finger pad then numerous keys then ports and other hard drive issues! It's the most expensive computer I've ever bought ($1500) and had to repair, maintain!!!! The $490, 12 year old backup Toshiba is more reliable (though slow i3). Recommendations around the $750-900 mark? I don't do games but do stream Netflix and edit my own YouTube AV stuff. Thank you tech minded cats.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 07, 2020, 05:44:37 pm
Newnes has proven he is good for 20 possies a game @decent DE% over 150 games so I would expect him to improve with every game. Richmond is a hard ask first up given their depth of talent and he might get a more negative role on a player like Edwards so his stats might not be so flash to begin with but I think he will end up a regular player for most of the season.

Yep, well said and totally agree.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: capcom on March 07, 2020, 05:48:50 pm
Interesting comments all, but this year, we must be utterly ruthless.  A lot rides and rests on Teague's shoulders.  As it should.  The complete mismanagement of the club can lie in the past.

This is nothing short of a campaign for self respect and that of other clubs. 

And stop turning the "e**in" ball over !!!! 

   
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 07, 2020, 05:48:57 pm
So, I'm finally going to ditch this ASUS piece of crap in a few months, but what to replace it with. Only 5 years old but every year something packed up - finger pad then numerous keys then ports and other hard drive issues! It's the most expensive computer I've ever bought ($1500) and had to repair, maintain!!!! The $490, 12 year old backup Toshiba is more reliable (though slow i3). Recommendations around the $750-900 mark? I don't do games but do stream Netflix and edit my own YouTube AV stuff. Thank you tech minded cats.
Buy a $250 AppleTV and plug it straight into your TV HDMI port, forget the laptop streaming stuff, there is a Kayo App in the App Store.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 07, 2020, 06:03:52 pm
Fly I love your positively at this time of the year (even though it’s usually gone by round 6) but sorry I just don’t see it.

Doc is a star and once he get into the year I 100% agree we will be better with him in there. Betts will provide something even if for a year or two only till hopefully we get Papely but Martin I’m afraid is the same jury out boat as Kennedy, Settlefield, Dow, obrien, DeKoning, Cunningham and even fisher, Williamson and Marchbank you could add it that list if we took the blue glasses off.
Too many on here pencil these blokes in like they are certainties. Far from it imo.

None habe proven more then the odd good game her and there. All have potential. So what. Every team has these sorts we have lots but until they do what Walsh did last year and do it week in week out they are not players I lock in yet and hence why I still think we won’t trouble many sides this year except the bottom 2-3.

Hope I’m wrong but history tells me I won’t be.

Martin is elite anywhere near his best.

To put him in the same group as that lot is laughable.

Put our list next to Brisvegas' list - I'd say our list is better.

They went from 15th and 5 wins to 2nd and 16 wins overnight.

11 win improvement.

We won 7 in 2019, and lost 8 (i think) by less than 3 goals.

If we don't make the 8 it's a major fail.


Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 07, 2020, 07:14:04 pm
Buy a $250 AppleTV and plug it straight into your TV HDMI port, forget the laptop streaming stuff, there is a Kayo App in the App Store.

Thank you, Spotted One.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 07, 2020, 07:24:23 pm
Fly I love your positively at this time of the year (even though it’s usually gone by round 6) but sorry I just don’t see it.

Doc is a star and once he get into the year I 100% agree we will be better with him in there. Betts will provide something even if for a year or two only till hopefully we get Papely but Martin I’m afraid is the same jury out boat as Kennedy, Settlefield, Dow, obrien, DeKoning, Cunningham and even fisher, Williamson and Marchbank you could add it that list if we took the blue glasses off.
Too many on here pencil these blokes in like they are certainties. Far from it imo.

None habe proven more then the odd good game her and there. All have potential. So what. Every team has these sorts we have lots but until they do what Walsh did last year and do it week in week out they are not players I lock in yet and hence why I still think we won’t trouble many sides this year except the bottom 2-3.

Hope I’m wrong but history tells me I won’t be.

Shawny Old Son, I get your skepticism but reckon it may be influenced by two decades of failed promises... and fair enough.

As is the case with any young side brimming with 'potential' you can't, with any certainty, label just about any bloke with less than around 60 games as a cert.

However, this young crew of ours consists of many blokes who've shown they're made of the right stuff just haven't played enough games; haven't put on the kgs; haven't got the Ks into the legs; haven't got a 'room to move' game plan and / or haven't hardened their bodies.

I reckon we've got a lot to be optimistic about with our young crew. For me, the only serious question marks remain on Cuningham and Polson. This year we'll know about Kennedy, Dow and probably O'Brien.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 07, 2020, 07:44:03 pm
Shawny Old Son, I get your skepticism but reckon it may be influenced by two decades of failed promises... and fair enough.

As is the case with any young side brimming with 'potential' you can't, with any certainty, label just about any bloke with less than around 60 games as a cert.

However, this young crew of ours consists of many blokes who've shown they're made of the right stuff just haven't played enough games; haven't put on the kgs; haven't got the Ks into the legs; haven't got a 'room to move' game plan and / or haven't hardened their bodies.

I reckon we've got a lot to be optimistic about with our young crew. For me, the only serious question marks remain on Cuningham and Polson. This year we'll know about Kennedy, Dow and probably O'Brien.

I agree baggers you can’t label any player under 60 games a cert but many on here talk as though they are, hence my point.

I like the look of Cunningham but he just doesn’t or can’t do it for long enough and I’m really starting to wonder.
Kennedy moves like he would be a decent inside footballer but doesn’t get the pill enough to hurt anyone.
Setterfield is a good size but again doesn’t get enough of it.
Dow disposal is awful. Another one that looks a player when he break out of a pack but then butchers it way too often.
Marchbank, Williamson should make it but their body is a worry. 
Fisher is another who looks a player has smarts but just needs to get the ball more often. If he can get it 20-25 times instead of 10-15 he will make a difference to us.
Lots of ifs buts and maybes for me to be too optimistic this year.  
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 07, 2020, 07:56:43 pm
Generally agree Shawny. The sceptics among us are a little wary after so many false dawns and hang man scenarios, and would simply prefer to see some more runs on the board before we judge. Or maybe a lot more runs.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: bmaurizio on March 08, 2020, 01:03:20 am
I reckon  Betts , Martin and Doc will have a positive  impact immediately it will be noticeable and  in 2nd half add a fit Harry and Charlie and we’ll reap results.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: townsendcalling on March 08, 2020, 09:07:28 am
Anyone know the admission details for these games??  Members free, members pay?? How much etc.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 08, 2020, 09:19:26 am
I agree baggers you can’t label any player under 60 games a cert but many on here talk as though they are, hence my point.

I like the look of Cunningham but he just doesn’t or can’t do it for long enough and I’m really starting to wonder.
Kennedy moves like he would be a decent inside footballer but doesn’t get the pill enough to hurt anyone.
Setterfield is a good size but again doesn’t get enough of it.
Dow disposal is awful. Another one that looks a player when he break out of a pack but then butchers it way too often.
Marchbank, Williamson should make it but their body is a worry. 
Fisher is another who looks a player has smarts but just needs to get the ball more often. If he can get it 20-25 times instead of 10-15 he will make a difference to us.
Lots of ifs buts and maybes for me to be too optimistic this year.  


Yep, you give spot on examples.

I guess I cut Setterfield some slack (and perhaps that's part of your point - we cut too many, too much slack too often) as last year was virtually his first year of footy and he showed some pretty special skills.

I think Dow has corrected those foot skill issues and delivered some beauts recently. He just needs to take the next step in terms of shouldering responsibility.

I, too, worry that Willo and Marchbank might be glassmen... can only cross fingers that they get their bodies right as they're both really good players and will be very important to any success we have.

Yep, Fisher needs to move into the 25+ possessions per game and do more than show promise. Totally agree.

Just about given up on Kennedy, rapidly confirming himself as a depth only bloke.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 08, 2020, 10:08:04 am
To me it's about maturity and sharing the footy, they burn it because they are either side of the right mix, they either want to do too much and it puts them under pressure(survival), or they overshare it because nobody wants to be the man(They are avoiding making a decision).

The individual possession counts will get sorted out when they get the mix right between oversharing and personal glory.

btw., Anyone watching the girls yesterday saw a perfect example of this, both the good and bad, all in one passage of play.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 08, 2020, 12:31:48 pm
I like the look of Cunningham but he just doesn’t or can’t do it for long enough and I’m really starting to wonder.

5th season this year. His best is very good, even stellar, needs the body to hold up. Isn't that Jack the Russell's job?

Kennedy moves like he would be a decent inside footballer but doesn’t get the pill enough to hurt anyone.

Lack of pre seasons have hurt him to now. His window is now. We'll see.

Setterfield is a good size but again doesn’t get enough of it.

Coming off an ACL his 2019 was serviceable. Plenty more to see here. Noting he was in Samo's crop - his time is coming this year or next.

Dow disposal is awful. Another one that looks a player when he break out of a pack but then butchers it way too often.

Paddy wow? The multitude of coaches no doubt saw what we saw last year and it was often putrid. Can it be fixed? This year will tell us. Personally, I'd be telling Paddy he's playing 2s until his form is that good, the decision to pick him in the 1s is irresistible.

Marchbank, Williamson should make it but their body is a worry.

They "say" Willo is over his back issues (growth related). We'll see. I see Marchy (thus far) as just dead set unlucky. Hoping his luck will turn. Again, Russell was brought in to manage issues such as these....

Fisher is another who looks a player has smarts but just needs to get the ball more often. If he can get it 20-25 times instead of 10-15 he will make a difference to us.

His broken leg put him behind the 8 ball for the 2019 pre season. No more excuses this year and he appears much stronger in his upper body. Expect a break out year from the Prince of York!

Lots of ifs buts and maybes for me to be too optimistic this year. 

For me (yes, the eternal optimist):

1.  Break out years for Fisher, Martin, SPS (no question).

2. Possibly break outs for Setters, Cuners and Kennedy too (though many rightly say Kennedy and SoJ are fighting for the one spot).

3. More improvement from Betts, Doc, the Guv, Weiters, Crippa and Walshy.

4. Big qurstion marks - Charlie and Big H.

Is that enough to lift us into the 8?

Why not?  8)
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 08, 2020, 01:07:49 pm
Love your loyalty, but the joke is comparing Hodge to Betts!

As a team and club General, Hodge on half of a good leg with two broken arms would still be an upgrade!

Did anyone suggest they play(ed) a similar role?

Indeed, Hodge's role was far more onerous (on the body) than Bett's role yet he played till 35.

Perhaps the joke's on you LP for trying to be a smarta@@e.

Don't underestimate Betts' achievements as a player.

300 games - #33 on the ALL TIME AFL/VFL goal kickers' list.

And will move into the top 25 by the time his career ends (passing the likes of Fev, Michael Roach, Neitz and A. Lynch).

I'll acknowledge i don't know all the names on the list but it appears he's 3rd on the list of small forwards after Matthews and Bartlett.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 08, 2020, 06:05:23 pm
While it would be nice to win Its not that important but just have to see a decent level of skill, system moving the ball forward and put kids playing like they care and not just looking like they are racking up minutes.

And no injuries please. Would be happy to see Cripps and doc only play one half and give the kids more game time.

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: northernblue on March 08, 2020, 07:07:49 pm
Is anyone else having trouble with the feed on the AFL app ?
Keeps stopping, then crashing... 😢
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LoveNavy on March 08, 2020, 07:21:20 pm
AFL App working fine.

Great start from Eddie, SOS, Dow, and of course Walshy. Newnes looks like he's up to speed too.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 08, 2020, 07:32:21 pm
AFL App working fine.

Great start from Eddie, SOS, Dow, and of course Walshy. Newnes looks like he's up to speed too.
Is this the same team that played freo?
Best I have seen Dow play. 
Skills and ball use so much better this week.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LoveNavy on March 08, 2020, 07:57:02 pm
Is this the same team that played freo?
Best I have seen Dow play. 
Skills and ball use so much better this week.

I agree about Dow.
Somehow he looks confident. Hasn't got that panicked/unsure look.
JSOS has done some nice things.
Unfortunately the Lions got their mojo as the q played out.

Go Blues.

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 08, 2020, 08:02:02 pm
I agree about Dow.
Somehow he looks confident. Hasn't got that panicked/unsure look.
JSOS has done some nice things.
Unfortunately the Lions got their mojo as the q played out.

Go Blues.



We got cocky.

Simmo then Guv both tried to be cute coming out of D50 and got screwed it up - cheap turnovers- goal to Brisvegas.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 08, 2020, 08:09:55 pm
They hit targets when it counted, we didn't.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 08, 2020, 08:22:07 pm
Also, Im still seeing too much left to too few (ie usual suspects Cripps, Walsh, Kruze). We are also still poor when we dont have the footy.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 08, 2020, 08:23:41 pm
Plowman cannot play on fast small fwds like Cameron.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 08, 2020, 08:26:57 pm
Car 8.6.54 Bris 8.8.56
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 08, 2020, 08:32:00 pm
Lions will run away with this now it seems
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Slowhand on March 08, 2020, 08:37:40 pm
SPS not playing. Got to be something going on there. McGovern 3 touches ,,,,,
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 08, 2020, 08:45:51 pm
Still not convinced setterfield is going to be the player many bang on about. His disposal is poor.
And I really hope we don’t play Fisher or Newnes in round 1. 
Both don’t deserve the spot and if we have as much depth as everyone says they shouldn’t get a game.
And surely McGovern hasn’t done enough either.
Been happy with Martin, Dow and Jack continues to do what jack does. All 3 should play round 1

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: madbluboy on March 08, 2020, 08:50:28 pm
Plowman cannot play on fast small fwds like Cameron.

Who is he supposed to play on then?
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 08, 2020, 08:51:35 pm
Who is he supposed to play on then?

Plowman smashed him last game...
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 08, 2020, 09:00:56 pm
I’m calling it early but Newnes shows all the signs of a another Lang/smedts trade.

Can’t kick to save himself.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Spanner on March 08, 2020, 09:18:52 pm
This club is officially a joke. The skill level is akin to under 12s. I spend my entire time watch this sh!+ truck of a club turn it over and over and over perpetually. Then on top of that, you have the Masters of giving up the red time goal.

Just sick of it! And what do you know, McStay drills one on the siren just to emphasise my point. What joke! This club is now just taking the p#ss...
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 08, 2020, 09:32:47 pm
Poor effort by many.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Rick on March 08, 2020, 09:40:10 pm
The train has stalled and going backwards at a rapid rate
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 08, 2020, 09:40:23 pm
This club is officially a joke. The skill level is akin to under 12s. I spend my entire time watch this sh!+ truck of a club turn it over and over and over perpetually. Then on top of that, you have the Masters of giving up the red time goal.

Just sick of it! And what do you know, McStay drills one on the siren just to emphasise my point. What joke! This club is now just taking the p#ss...

Any team that is able to give game time to a bloke with the ability of Polson sums up how far away we are. 
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Jack Burton on March 08, 2020, 09:40:59 pm
Same same, seen it before, seeing the same again. I'm hoping they decide to play behind closed doors, will save me the 3 hour drive

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: rocky on March 08, 2020, 09:41:51 pm
Terrible. Just terrible. We got worse as the game went on and they got better. So few bright lights. De Koning showed more in his short time out there than McGovern did for half a game. He appears to be another flop. Kreuzer got killed. Have not seen him lower his colours like that. Midfield were shocking. Just witches hats. I's soul destroying to see them bust a tit to get it forward only to balls it up and get punished on the turnover. Richmond will murder us come round 1. God help us.
Did anyone find out what happened with Marchbank?
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 08, 2020, 09:52:03 pm
Two shockers in a row. Not a good sign, especially from a club wanting to hit 75,000 members.

Agree with Newnes criticisms.

I hope it's all about experimenting and so on, because if we were fair dinkum today, we're in for another of 'those' seasons.

What concerned me most was the same old, same old... as soon as an opposition raises their intensity, we wilt, go into our shells and invent new ways to make huge stuff ups. Our lack of intensity for much of the game was palpable (except for the first 4 goals... then we conceded 16 to 6.)
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LoveNavy on March 08, 2020, 09:59:11 pm
Started well then looked like we couldn't keep up.
Worried about McG
Another injury for Marchy will make it difficult for him.
Newnes ok in q1. Then quite poor.
Jack and Jack and the usual went ok. Dow showed improvement.
It was like watching the train climb the mountain only to derail on the descent 🚑
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 08, 2020, 10:13:02 pm
Terrible. Just terrible. We got worse as the game went on and they got better. So few bright lights. De Koning showed more in his short time out there than McGovern did for half a game. He appears to be another flop. Kreuzer got killed. Have not seen him lower his colours like that. Midfield were shocking. Just witches hats. I's soul destroying to see them bust a tit to get it forward only to balls it up and get punished on the turnover. Richmond will murder us come round 1. God help us.
Did anyone find out what happened with Marchbank?

knee apparently.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: cookie2 on March 08, 2020, 10:14:40 pm
DeKoning looks very promising.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 08, 2020, 10:17:05 pm
Have no depth at all in the middle. With Murphy Cripps Walsh and Ed starting in there we are just competitive but as soon as the starting group doesn’t consist of 3 blokes from that group we are absolutely cooked.

Our second tier players are miles off.

Add in no big forwards with Charlie and Harry out and we are stuffed before we start.

McGovern is yet another we talked up - casboult looks like Wayne Carey next to that donk.

Adelaide ripped us a new one with that deal. 
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: shawny on March 08, 2020, 10:19:27 pm
knee apparently.

Have a feeling it may be a serious one - has a look on his face.
And the fact Charlie was in the room with him tells you they may suspect an acl and he may have needed some support.

Poor bloke can’t take a trick and I fear he will never make it. Body is a too brittle for AFL I’m afraid.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 08, 2020, 10:30:18 pm
Key moment for me was when in the third qtr Silvagni battled hard took a nice mark about 30 out directly in front went back and with a lazy kick missed. If he goals we are 18 points up but stay 13 up they then kick two quick goals over run over us game over. Instead of being able to have scoreboard pressure which gives you time to make changes when the opposition is charging, get good players back on after a rest, reorganise etc. we panic because it’s what we have done for 10 years!
Hard work need to be rewarded with goals not lazy misses. If he is going to play up forward which I like he needs to nail easy goals. Casboult is a more reliable kick than Silvagni! I like his battle for the ball but if he hits a target it’s because the target moved to the ball, but that goes for too many of our players especially the backline butchers of plowman and Newman
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: capcom on March 08, 2020, 10:33:48 pm
McGovern is starting to worry me just a tad. 
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 08, 2020, 10:49:08 pm
Key moment for me was when in the third qtr Silvagni battled hard took a nice mark about 30 out directly in front went back and with a lazy kick missed. If he goals we are 18 points up but stay 13 up they then kick two quick goals over run over us game over. Instead of being able to have scoreboard pressure which gives you time to make changes when the opposition is charging, get good players back on after a rest, reorganise etc. we panic because it’s what we have done for 10 years!
Hard work need to be rewarded with goals not lazy misses. If he is going to play up forward which I like he needs to nail easy goals. Casboult is a more reliable kick than Silvagni! I like his battle for the ball but if he hits a target it’s because the target moved to the ball, but that goes for too many of our players especially the backline butchers of plowman and Newman

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/573741/marsh-2-match-report-blues-v-lions
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: crashlander on March 08, 2020, 10:55:54 pm
Not the sort of football we need to play. Very disappointing. Not sure what we need to do, but we are certainly not ready for Round 1. Not enough fit players in crucial roles.
Not enough class coming in, except maybe Eddie.
Not enough endeavour.
Not enough evidence of any increase in skill level.

We might be the first team to have 75000 members and win a wooden spoon. :(
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 08, 2020, 11:23:20 pm
There ought to be some significant sphincter tightening happening around the club at Board and Executive level!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LoveNavy on March 08, 2020, 11:30:30 pm
Not the sort of football we need to play. Very disappointing. Not sure what we need to do, but we are certainly not ready for Round 1. Not enough fit players in crucial roles.
Not enough class coming in, except maybe Eddie.
Not enough endeavour.
Not enough evidence of any increase in skill level.

We might be the first team to have 75000 members and win a wooden spoon. :(

That's definitely a formula for anarchy and liquidation.

It's so hard to stay positive when these 2 PS games were so poor. At least for 7q that is 😥

Nonetheless. It's on to the reigning premiers now. Is it just me or does that seem like a frightening proposition 😟
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LoveNavy on March 08, 2020, 11:40:41 pm
Interesting stat....
Blues lay 47 tackles in a 45pt loss
Blues AFLW lay 70 tackles in a 21pt win

I think a few players might benefit from training with our girls. They know how to fight back at all costs, and keep applying pressure. Areas that were sorely lacking in tonight's performance.

Lions are a great outfit.
Blues have a long way to go based on the Marsh series.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Tragic on March 08, 2020, 11:49:20 pm
That's definitely a formula for anarchy and liquidation.

It's so hard to stay positive when these 2 PS games were so poor. At least for 7q that is 😥

Nonetheless. It's on to the reigning premiers now. Is it just me or does that seem like a frightening proposition 😟

i still maintain it's just the preseason, but i also admit to being a little frightened.  the tiges may well rip us a new one.  i'll try and keep some perspective still.  nobody here pretends we're in the hunt for the flag this year. i want 10 wins for the season.  we still have 22 chances.   i thought martin was good but is not much chop at centre bounces, keep him hff /wing.  dow looks better than last year, but needs to keep improving and must take more responsibility on the ball.  TDK  looks promising. SPS was missed.  my usual optimism is a little fragile at the mo.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 08, 2020, 11:52:17 pm
Interesting stat....
Blues lay 47 tackles in a 45pt loss
Blues AFLW lay 70 tackles in a 21pt win

I think a few players might benefit from training with our girls. They know how to fight back at all costs, and keep applying pressure. Areas that were sorely lacking in tonight's performance.

Lions are a great outfit.
Blues have a long way to go based on the Marsh series.

We beat the Lions last year in the real season, no reason we can't or won't this year...
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 08, 2020, 11:55:07 pm
Piss poor that Teague doesn't front the media but instead send out his lieutenants....
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 09, 2020, 12:33:51 am

I was banging on about trying to recruit him for most of last year. I got my wish.

My take on him and what he could do for the side was relatively simple. He is a 'set and forget' type player. Turns up, does whats expected and moves on to next week. Albeit in a different role, its something like what Nick Newman or Ed Curnow offers us. You might not notice him much but at the end of the day he has his 20 touches and was not beaten. Get 22 of them and you win more games than you lose. With the amount of kids we have, we could use a few more 'set and forget' types.
 This is what i wrote about Newnes recently. I've said similar over the past 6-12 months.

Just looking through the stats....
Newnes 20 touches.
Curnow 20 touches
Newman 19 touches

I know it was far from his best game......and lets face it, nobody really turned up after half time.....but he does 'as advertised'. Not sure where all the hate is coming from. Plenty of 'mates' on the day.

 
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Inboltswetrust on March 09, 2020, 01:15:51 am
This is what i wrote about Newnes recently. I've said similar over the past 6-12 months.

Just looking through the stats....
Newnes 20 touches.
Curnow 20 touches
Newman 19 touches

I know it was far from his best game......and lets face it, nobody really turned up after half time.....but he does 'as advertised'. Not sure where all the hate is coming from. Plenty of 'mates' on the day.



These players, Newnes and Ed are perennial butchers of the football.  It wouldn't matter if they had 30 touches, in fact, you don't want them to have 30 touches.  Ed is a tagger only.  He cannot kick properly- e.g all his kicks go up in the air.  Newnes was horrible at the saints (hence his dropping) and will be horrible at our club.  It is not rocket science.  Retreds are cheap but cause your car to be a danger to everyone on the road when they fail.  Our coaching is horrible (line coaches) and the board is a joke.  I have been saying this for about 10 years on here but noone listens.  17th or 18th.   Again.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 09, 2020, 01:18:12 am
These players, Newnes and Ed are perennial butchers of the football.  It wouldn't matter if they had 30 touches, in fact, you don't want them to have 30 touches.  Ed is a tagger only.  He cannot kick properly- e.g all his kicks go up in the air.  Newnes was horrible at the saints (hence his dropping) and will be horrible at our club.  It is not rocket science.  Retreds are cheap but cause your car to be a danger to everyone on the road when they fail.  Our coaching is horrible (line coaches) and the board is a joke.  I have been saying this for about 10 years on here but noone listens.  17th or 18th.  Again.
 You've been banging on for 10 years.....still yet to say something positive. No wonder noone listens.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 09, 2020, 07:24:59 am
Piss poor that Teague doesn't front the media but instead send out his lieutenants....

It's probably part of the whole empowerment strategy.

I think Amos and Harford are the two best speakers currently at the club, apart from maybe Judd.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 09, 2020, 07:54:33 am
Not impressed.

And in deference to the hyperoptimists that frequent this site,  Newnes is a very average footballer, added to a very average list with sparse quality. And that's the problem.   Too many who aren't, can't and simply don't deliver.

2020 looks very much like 2019 rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 09, 2020, 08:06:56 am
1 goal after 3/4 time, 3.4 to 10.10 in the second half. Thats putrid. I'm sorry but Im not buying this "wait until the real stuff starts". If we lost but were competitive for 4 qtrs, I wouldn't have cared less. But that effort? Thats what we have been doing for the last 5 years and nothing has changed (practice match or not). Either we were just mucking around and not disclosing how we are really going to play or we still have serious structural problems (especially forward of centre). Our forward line was shambolic for the most part. If we show up like that round one, we will get spanked by Richmond by 100+ points. I am really concerned, convince me otherwise.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 09, 2020, 08:16:57 am
Small - medium defenders were putrid, and worryingly so,  and Marchbank is injured again. Been a lot invested in that bloke for very little reward.

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 09, 2020, 08:18:36 am
Small - medium defenders were putrid, and worryingly so,  and Marchbank is injured again. Been a lot invested in that bloke for very little reward.

According to Amos, both Marchbank and Plowman have low grade injuries that are not a major concern - Marchbank received a knock on the knee, Plow rolled his ankle.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 09, 2020, 08:37:59 am
They're injured...that's a soft  excuse from Amos.   Don't play or come off.   They were rubbish and need a drastic form turnaround in the next fortnight. The whole club does.

The defensive positioning, ability to keep their feet,  and inability to win one on ones was poor and isn't going to be rectified overnight. 
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Diesel95 on March 09, 2020, 09:38:31 am
What makes this so bad is that other clubs are also tinkering with game plans, trialling players etc - so it's a relative comparison and that's why we (including me) have had such a visceral reaction to the performances. Comparatively, we are looking at 4th last....at best. Let's be honest, for those who attend the AGMs will no doubt find MLG's performances as cringeworthy - he's not up to it and with the push by the board led by MLG to convert Ikon Park into a training ground rather than an AFL ready stadium (for initial use by the AFLW), is testimony of the fact that the current board will continue to set back our once great club. #disgusted.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 09, 2020, 10:10:44 am
Nuh, not buyin' it. Something's crook in Tootgarook. Thank the gods for Eddie and JM and the reborn Casboult otherwise our score would have been even more meagre.

Seems to me too many players thought last year's momentum would effortlessly flow into this year, and then, also, believe our own hype. And let's be honest re last year - we put experience in the middle and successfully beat those sides that were struggling for whatever reason. Good sides applied pressure and we still resorted to type, fold up. Does that amount to simply being soft between the lugholes (as a playing culture)?

We need some serious work done above the shoulders on our playing culture/group. Opposition clubs know that once you apply and sustain serious pressure on our blokes they go into their shells, lose all boldness and become mostly a group of head-droppers - one dimensional stuff. Well, that's how it looks and you can only go by what you are presented with. Results don't lie.

Scratching around for positives - Martin, Eddie, De King, Jones, Weitering, Walsh and of course, Cripps. And how good we look without opposition pressure.

There has been heavy investment off field in our club, a poor year on-field (again!) will most certainly see turmoil and change.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LygonStreetLimbo on March 09, 2020, 10:15:17 am
It was Neale and Cameron that did the damage. Indeed they have recruited well
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Lods on March 09, 2020, 10:29:23 am
Some of us are a little (greatly) concerned after the practice games.
Others are a "wait until the proper stuff starts" type of supporter.
I've always been in the latter camp.
There's nothing wrong with either train of thought...it's just different.

I remember when we used to win, or go very well, in the pre-seasons only to fall in a heap once the season proper started.
It's chalk and cheese.
Have  a look at the results in some of the other practice games and tell me that's a true indication of the relative strengths of some sides.

We won't know which way it goes until the first shots are fired in 'anger'....and for me that's the main difference between practice games and regular season games.
There's no anger., no intensity and very little pressure in these games.
It will increase dramatically when 4 points are on the line.
Some clubs will thrive under those conditions, others will falter.
That's when we'll be able to see where we really stand.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Sexybronco on March 09, 2020, 10:43:23 am
Some of us are a little (greatly) concerned after the practice games.
Others are a "wait until the proper stuff starts" type of supporter.
I've always been in the latter camp.
There's nothing wrong with either train of thought...it's just different.

I remember when we used to win, or go very well, in the pre-seasons only to fall in a heap once the season proper started.
It's chalk and cheese.
Have  a look at the results in some of the other practice games and tell me that's a true indication of the relative strengths of some sides.

We won't know which way it goes until the first shots are fired in 'anger'....and for me that's the main difference between practice games and regular season games.
There's no anger., no intensity and very little pressure in these games.
It will increase dramatically when 4 points are on the line.
Some clubs will thrive under those conditions, others will falter.
That's when we'll be able to see where we really stand.
Agree Lods, we have no choice but to wait for the real stull as on exposed form we have nothing to be excited about. I'll be at round one but am much less optimistic after our recent showings....hope to Christ we put on a good show.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 09, 2020, 10:46:15 am
I think we saw clearly that Kreuzer is either underdone or suffering post procedure issues....

The guy simply doesn't take marks around the ground any more....

Work out of the middle defensively was atrocious - so atrocious that I would consider it was by design.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: JonDorotich on March 09, 2020, 10:49:17 am
Some of us are a little (greatly) concerned after the practice games.
Others are a "wait until the proper stuff starts" type of supporter.
I've always been in the latter camp.
There's nothing wrong with either train of thought...it's just different.

I remember when we used to win, or go very well, in the pre-seasons only to fall in a heap once the season proper started.
It's chalk and cheese.
Have  a look at the results in some of the other practice games and tell me that's a true indication of the relative strengths of some sides.

We won't know which way it goes until the first shots are fired in 'anger'....and for me that's the main difference between practice games and regular season games.
There's no anger., no intensity and very little pressure in these games.
It will increase dramatically when 4 points are on the line.
Some clubs will thrive under those conditions, others will falter.
That's when we'll be able to see where we really stand.

Our success or otherwise this season will come down to whether players like McKay, McGovern, Williamson, Cunningham, Dow, SPS, Fischer, Setterfield, Stocker, DeKoning etc can materially step up from last year and provide some x factor that adds to the return of Docherty and the addition of Martin. If that group can't step up to the level, we'll be once again left to rely on hard workers like Plowman, Gibbons, Simpson, E Curnow, Newnes, Casboult et al and in that case, we should all expect to be bottom four again.

We need breakout years from so many, so this year is a real roll of the dice. Fingers crossed it all comes together
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 09, 2020, 10:51:28 am
I think we saw clearly that Kreuzer is either underdone or suffering post procedure issues....

The guy simply doesn't take marks around the ground any more....

Work out of the middle defensively was atrocious - so atrocious that I would consider it was by design.
 
 
 I've been a bit worried about Kreuzer for a couple years now.

TBH, he simply isn't good enough. Injuries have ruined him.
His best is still quite good, but he is never allowed to perform at his best.

In an ideal world, TDK would replace him by seasons end.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: capcom on March 09, 2020, 11:18:32 am
Piss poor that Teague doesn't front the media but instead send out his lieutenants....

Nothing short of pathetic IMO.  He MUST get on the front foot from the get go.  He will incur my wrath really quickly if he doesn't.  That's his freakin' job, practice match or not !!!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 09, 2020, 11:36:18 am
They're injured...that's a soft  excuse from Amos.   Don't play or come off.   They were rubbish and need a drastic form turnaround in the next fortnight. The whole club does.

The defensive positioning, ability to keep their feet,  and inability to win one on ones was poor and isn't going to be rectified overnight. 
Spot on
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 09, 2020, 11:46:01 am
Some of us are a little (greatly) concerned after the practice games.
Others are a "wait until the proper stuff starts" type of supporter.
I've always been in the latter camp.
There's nothing wrong with either train of thought...it's just different.

I remember when we used to win, or go very well, in the pre-seasons only to fall in a heap once the season proper started.
It's chalk and cheese.
Have  a look at the results in some of the other practice games and tell me that's a true indication of the relative strengths of some sides.

We won't know which way it goes until the first shots are fired in 'anger'....and for me that's the main difference between practice games and regular season games.
There's no anger., no intensity and very little pressure in these games.
It will increase dramatically when 4 points are on the line.
Some clubs will thrive under those conditions, others will falter.
That's when we'll be able to see where we really stand.
But Lods, there was not even a glimpse (to me) that we can fight when the 4 points are up for grabs. Read my post carefully, we are making the same mistakes over and over and over. Not being able to compete for 4 qtrs is a real worry. For example, Setterfield had a bread and butter shot from from around 30m out directly in front at the Royal Parade end. He sprayed it badly. This is an end where they train this week in week out and have shot after shot. You tell me there is no intensity or pressure in these games and yet he simply misses. Just plain UNACCEPTABLE. Excuses keep getting made year after year, I am effin sick of it. I say again, Its not the loss per se', its the way we lost, same as every other loss for the last 5 years. If we were trying something totally different and we lost, I would get it. But it was a full dress rehearsel for round 1, David Teagues words pre,match on FOX not mine. Well if thats the dress rehearsal, we're forked.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 09, 2020, 11:47:33 am

 
 I've been a bit worried about Kreuzer for a couple years now.

TBH, he simply isn't good enough. Injuries have ruined him.
His best is still quite good, but he is never allowed to perform at his best.

In an ideal world, TDK would replace him by seasons end.

I'd play TDK this week in place of McKay, we need more firepower down forward and Kreuzer needs phasing out...
Pittonet is still a bit raw but is probably better suited to meatheads like Soldo...
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 09, 2020, 12:02:28 pm
I'd play TDK this week in place of McKay, we need more firepower down forward and Kreuzer needs phasing out...
Pittonet is still a bit raw but is probably better suited to meatheads like Soldo...
Can't bring underdone players in for rnd 1, they will be passengers like Gov and Marchy were last night. TDK has at least had a hit or two in the Marsh series so yeah, play him. Harry needs to build fitness in the 2s and prove his groins are up to some semblance of AFL standard. SPS is in the same boat. As for some of the other ordinary performers last night, not sure what to do about them.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 09, 2020, 12:19:21 pm
Can't bring underdone players in for rnd 1, they will be passengers like Gov and Marchy were last night. TDK has at least had a hit or two in the Marsh series so yeah, play him. Harry needs to build fitness in the 2s and prove his groins are up to some semblance of AFL standard. SPS is in the same boat. As for some of the other ordinary performers last night, not sure what to do about them.
McGovern should be playing twos, doesnt help our delivery is poor but he just doesnt get to enough contests....but you cant drop him given we have McKay and C. Curnow out and just have to hope he can lift on the bigger stage.
Marchbank is at the crossroads, cant see him playing vs Richmond given he lacks match fitness and their mobile forward line.
Like to see him play 3-4 games in the NB's and prove he can stay on the park, we all know he can play but how long can you carry players who are not able to stay fit?
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 09, 2020, 12:29:27 pm
Nothing short of pathetic IMO.  He MUST get on the front foot from the get go.  He will incur my wrath really quickly if he doesn't.  That's his freakin' job, practice match or not !!!

Lions, Cats, Bombers, Swans and Giants have all sent out assistants for the post match interviews so far. It's not unheard of. Although the senior coaches of those clubs have been around for a while. Teague is the only one of the noobs to not front up. Whether there's some genuine reason behind it is hard to gauge.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 09, 2020, 12:53:28 pm
Lions, Cats, Bombers, Swans and Giants have all sent out assistants for the post match interviews so far. It's not unheard of. Although the senior coaches of those clubs have been around for a while. Teague is the only one of the noobs to not front up. Whether there's some genuine reason behind it is hard to gauge.

I don't think there's anything sinister in who fronts the media after practice matches, gives the assistants some media training... plus Dale A is a pretty good media performer.

Must confess I am far more concerned with what we dished up last night than whose turn it is to talk about it.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 09, 2020, 01:03:22 pm
I don't think there's anything sinister in who fronts the media after practice matches, gives the assistants some media training... plus Dale A is a pretty good media performer.

Must confess I am far more concerned with what we dished up last night than whose turn it is to talk about it.

Agree...Amos speaks well and I reckon Teague has a few more things to worry about than giving a presser.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 09, 2020, 01:10:08 pm
I don't think there's anything sinister in who fronts the media after practice matches, gives the assistants some media training... plus Dale A is a pretty good media performer.

Must confess I am far more concerned with what we dished up last night than whose turn it is to talk about it.

I agree, but some folks on here seem quite upset. Truth to tell I prefer Amos to Dinkum Dave.

I don't think we should be freaking out just yet. Half a dozen or so games into the season will give us a better idea. We don't have a true KPF for starters. McKay should be back soon. Charlie, McGovern, Levi, etc. are more 2nd 3rd forwards. The crumbers will function better with a true KPF.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: WASurfer on March 09, 2020, 01:13:46 pm
Late to the discussion so apologies if I rehash other comments.

We brushed off last week's effort saying it was just a practice match! This was the real deal before it all starts. Apart from SPS, that's pretty much the team we'll be choosing from and after kicking the first 4 goals, we lost by 8!

Only made to look good early because Brisbane forgot to turn up...once they did, they made us look silly.

Like last week, only a few highlights for mine. Martin looks like he'll be really good for us but concerning at half time that he looked completely stuffed...maybe that's a knock on him? Walsh is just a competitive beast who does not stop and looks to have just picked up where he left off last year. TDK looks like he's worth taking a punt on early in the season. Silvagni should be in the first picked each week. Yes, his kicking for goal lets him down but he just busts a gut the whole time...running up and down, making a contest in the air and on the ground, chasing/tackling.

Too many downsides again though:

- Marchbank looks unfortunately like one of those blokes who just can't stay on the ground because of injuries. But to be honest, doesn't contribute much out there anyway.
- McGovern needs nothing short of a rocket. Does he not realise we'll be without Curnow for most of the season and McKay for a good part of it too? He looks lazy and no second efforts at all. At this rate Levi will need to play permanent forward and maybe TDK as second ruck/forward option depending on conditions for round 1.
- too many players with absolutely sh#t disposal skills. These blokes play/train virtually 5 days a week but still can't hit a team mate on his own from 30m away. How many turnovers yesterday? Blokes like Setterfield, Polson, Plowman, Marchbank just can't kick. Dow looked pretty good in parts with his run and carry but just blasts it into no mans land when he kicks it...and more often than not, straight to an opponent.
- did we win any free kicks for holding the ball tackles? Seemed like whenever we got tackled it was holding the ball but when we laid a tackle, it was a ball up.

If that's basically the lineup against Richmond we're gonna get our pants pulled down and make the calls louder for us to be taken away from the season opener each year.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 09, 2020, 01:22:33 pm

If that's basically the lineup against Richmond we're gonna get our pants pulled down and make the calls louder for us to be taken away from the season opener each year.
Great post WAS, this is the big ticket item for mine. After a summer of being fed positive BS from all and sundry at the club, they dish up two dismal performances, one 10 days out from rnd 1 vs the premiers with virtually a full side. If we dish up a crapshow rnd 1, you can kiss the season opener goodbye. I was relatively optimistic but in 24hrs, my mind has been turned 180 degrees.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Lods on March 09, 2020, 01:24:13 pm
But Lods, there was not even a glimpse (to me) that we can fight when the 4 points are up for grabs. Read my post carefully, we are making the same mistakes over and over and over. Not being able to compete for 4 qtrs is a real worry. For example, Setterfield had a bread and butter shot from from around 30m out directly in front at the Royal Parade end. He sprayed it badly. This is an end where they train this week in week out and have shot after shot. You tell me there is no intensity or pressure in these games and yet he simply misses. Just plain UNACCEPTABLE. Excuses keep getting made year after year, I am effin sick of it. I say again, Its not the loss per se', its the way we lost, same as every other loss for the last 5 years. If we were trying something totally different and we lost, I would get it. But it was a full dress rehearsel for round 1, David Teagues words pre,match on FOX not mine. Well if thats the dress rehearsal, we're forked.

It might very well be that what we're seeing is an indication of how our season will pan out.
I sincerely hope not.
But the way I look at it is this....It's a long season. Players know that in the next few weeks they're  going to have to switch up to another level. Experienced players like Kreuzer, Simpson and Murphy have been around long enough to know that they need to pace themselves at this time of year so they can see the season through. Even Cripps seemed to dial it down a gear as the game went on. It doesn't require a massive drop in effort but this is nowhere near the level of attack on player and ball we'll see in round 1.
These matches are really just a run, a bit like a racehorse racing at different distances before settling into the main focus of a campaign. While it's nice to say they should be a '100% all the time' in these games or 'you play as you train' it's now a bit cliché. Training loads and intensity are much more sophisticated than they were back in the days. We have no idea of the training loads in the days leading up to these games but I suspect there will now be a bit of a freshening up as we head towards the Richmond game. Skill errors by players are likely to  hurt their chances of  selection, so those who don't execute will be lucky to play unless they bring  other attributes.
We'll find out in a few days if what we've seen is what we'll get.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Tragic on March 09, 2020, 01:24:54 pm
I don't think we should be freaking out just yet. Half a dozen or so games into the season will give us a better idea. We don't have a true KPF for starters. McKay should be back soon. Charlie, McGovern, Levi, etc. are more 2nd 3rd forwards. The crumbers will function better with a true KPF.

I agree.  Sadly, we won't get to see our best setup for sometime, it's another bad run with injuries to key personnel. 

Harry as FF, pushing up about as far as the centre.  He's got serious wheels and can lead to the player with the ball and take a strong grab, and also burn  off his opponent if one goes over the back.

Charlie roaming wherever the hell he wants.  He can present from kick ins, mark on the wing, or do his stuff in the forward 50.

Mitch is best suited to exploiting the gaps in between.

Maybe by the time our developing mids can average 20+ good possies in the middle, we'll have our best forward line on the park...  We're all sick of waiting though.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 09, 2020, 01:31:49 pm
McGovern is rapidly turning into a joke, unfortunately I'm not seeing any humour in it.

The decision to cough up a high draft pick and a big chunk of the salary cap for a bloke who doesn't look fair dinkum is looking increasingly like a misguided one.

Another example of acquiring what's available not the best.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: WASurfer on March 09, 2020, 01:34:54 pm
Agree to some extent Lods but given the so called "depth" we now have, I would've thought competition would've been fierce for spots with blokes trying to get a gig for Round 1. On these last two performances, there'll be players getting a game who simply don't deserve it on form.

And any information on blokes like SPS, Stocker etc? For mine, Stocker is a far better option down back or as a defensive player than Polson who is simply treading water. I was hoping that with Docherty returning to half back that we could see SPS play more through the middle but we might need his kicking skills coming out of the backline again this season based on what we've seen so far.

Are we simply gonna see us going back to the well with the likes of Kennedy, Lang, O'Brien etc who haven't done enough to warrant a game?
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Lods on March 09, 2020, 01:37:34 pm
I mentioned in another thread a while back that Teague wouldn't get much of a honeymoon.
Poor bugger hasn't even made it through the reception ;D
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 09, 2020, 01:40:01 pm
Lods et al, I commend you guys for being able to remain calm and rational for so long. I however am unable.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: townsendcalling on March 09, 2020, 02:15:55 pm
I hate to say it, but the end will come for Kruezer very quickly. He gave us no advantage in the middle yesterday and was more concerned about his opponent at centre bounces than keeping his eye on the ball. (even more than he normally does!). In a H&A match, Curnow would have gone to Neal 2 mins into the 3rd quarter and we wouldn’t have started off with Cripps and Murphy on the bench after half time. Let’s wait until the end of April to put a line through players, coaches and committee members.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: capcom on March 09, 2020, 02:17:57 pm
McGovern is rapidly turning into a joke, unfortunately I'm not seeing any humour in it.

The decision to cough up a high draft pick and a big chunk of the salary cap for a bloke who doesn't look fair dinkum is looking increasingly like a misguided one.

Another example of acquiring what's available not the best.

If it backfires (and I'm leaning toward the belief that it will) then we are in for a painful season.  We have had some questionable recruiting decisions (understatement) and this could well be another one.  We'll get murdered in Rnd 1 regardless.  I'd be happy if that game is taken away from us.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: cobra on March 09, 2020, 02:18:59 pm
Late to the discussion so apologies if I rehash other comments.

We brushed off last week's effort saying it was just a practice match! This was the real deal before it all starts. Apart from SPS, that's pretty much the team we'll be choosing from and after kicking the first 4 goals, we lost by 8!

Only made to look good early because Brisbane forgot to turn up...once they did, they made us look silly.

Like last week, only a few highlights for mine. Martin looks like he'll be really good for us but concerning at half time that he looked completely stuffed...maybe that's a knock on him? Walsh is just a competitive beast who does not stop and looks to have just picked up where he left off last year. TDK looks like he's worth taking a punt on early in the season. Silvagni should be in the first picked each week. Yes, his kicking for goal lets him down but he just busts a gut the whole time...running up and down, making a contest in the air and on the ground, chasing/tackling.

Too many downsides again though:

- Marchbank looks unfortunately like one of those blokes who just can't stay on the ground because of injuries. But to be honest, doesn't contribute much out there anyway.
- McGovern needs nothing short of a rocket. Does he not realise we'll be without Curnow for most of the season and McKay for a good part of it too? He looks lazy and no second efforts at all. At this rate Levi will need to play permanent forward and maybe TDK as second ruck/forward option depending on conditions for round 1.
- too many players with absolutely sh#t disposal skills. These blokes play/train virtually 5 days a week but still can't hit a team mate on his own from 30m away. How many turnovers yesterday? Blokes like Setterfield, Polson, Plowman, Marchbank just can't kick. Dow looked pretty good in parts with his run and carry but just blasts it into no mans land when he kicks it...and more often than not, straight to an opponent.
- did we win any free kicks for holding the ball tackles? Seemed like whenever we got tackled it was holding the ball but when we laid a tackle, it was a ball up.

If that's basically the lineup against Richmond we're gonna get our pants pulled down and make the calls louder for us to be taken away from the season opener each year.
Unfortunately if we want to keep players under done like McGovern and Marchbank it will be the players and coaches demise. Are coaches group haven’t learnt and it seems that Bolton was the scapegoat.
Who ever our midfield coach needs to have a hard look at themselves. Fisher was a big problem at the start of last season when he played in the middle especially at CCB. He is to small. Enough is enough!!!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: WASurfer on March 09, 2020, 02:23:01 pm
If McGovern is underdone then so be it....but it's a rehash of same time last year! I look at Walsh and see a kid who's desperate to win and who gives it 100%, even in these practice games. I haven't seen that once from McGovern and he's been there the same amount of time as Walsh...on top of a few earlier years at Adelaide.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 09, 2020, 07:26:37 pm
Give the guy a break, he fractured his back in the last pre season.

He's clearly in much better condition this year, just needs some more game time...a run in the 2s this weekend?
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 09, 2020, 07:32:36 pm
Give the guy a break, he fractured his back in the last pre season.

He's clearly in much better condition this year, just needs some more game time...a run in the 2s this weekend?
If the twos are playing then yeah. He needs all the game time he can get.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: flyboy77 on March 09, 2020, 08:34:13 pm
https://omny.fm/shows/3aw-sportsday/carlton-coach-david-teague-defends-pre-season-form?fbclid=IwAR2WW1fSlXNTjgq83-XZphw2sHxM4B6A9S7vHXt5V4TkE1mcdv8CSjAwm3k
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 09, 2020, 09:00:18 pm
I mentioned in another thread a while back that Teague wouldn't get much of a honeymoon.
Poor bugger hasn't even made it through the reception ;D
 If it doesn't get consumated, do we need to pay him out?  ;D
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 09, 2020, 09:04:59 pm
https://omny.fm/shows/3aw-sportsday/carlton-coach-david-teague-defends-pre-season-form?fbclid=IwAR2WW1fSlXNTjgq83-XZphw2sHxM4B6A9S7vHXt5V4TkE1mcdv8CSjAwm3k

He certainly doesn't give too much away.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 09, 2020, 09:07:40 pm
Looking for some positives...
How good was it seeing Doc running around and dashing out of defense.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: DJC on March 09, 2020, 09:53:07 pm
The most important thing I took out of the game was Ed's mouthguard; absolutely brilliant  :D

I was very disappointed immediately after the game but I have convinced myself that Teague is keeping his powder dry for Round 1.  Surely that has to be it  :-\

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 09, 2020, 10:15:41 pm
The most important thing I took out of the game was Ed's mouthguard; absolutely brilliant  :D

I was very disappointed immediately after the game but I have convinced myself that Teague is keeping his powder dry for Round 1.  Surely that has to be it  :-\

Yes, one hopes. Teague has spoken about scoring and some players have spoken about the greater emphasis on skill work and less on strategy / planning etc that was prioritised under Bolton. So far this pre season, neither skills nor scoring seem to be improved, and Teague has been coach for about 9 months.

We'll know in the next month or two.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 10, 2020, 08:49:48 am
https://omny.fm/shows/3aw-sportsday/carlton-coach-david-teague-defends-pre-season-form?fbclid=IwAR2WW1fSlXNTjgq83-XZphw2sHxM4B6A9S7vHXt5V4TkE1mcdv8CSjAwm3k

After footy, a political career awaits DT.

At least he confirmed that once BrisVegas turned up we had trouble adjusting to the increased attention/pressure (accountability/mental toughness?). The last thing we need is a downhill skier reputation.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: capcom on March 10, 2020, 09:42:40 am
 ::) At his response
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 10, 2020, 01:06:14 pm
Yes, one hopes. Teague has spoken about scoring and some players have spoken about the greater emphasis on skill work and less on strategy / planning etc that was prioritised under Bolton. So far this pre season, neither skills nor scoring seem to be improved, and Teague has been coach for about 9 months.

We'll know in the next month or two.
Also thought our contesting was poor after half time, apart from Cripps we had a few blokes watching rather than attacking the ball and a few who couldnt be bothered chasing or tackling.
Cripps played a blinder last Brisbane game and I wondered if a few of his team-mates thought he would take over again and they could just coast to the line on the back of the captain.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 10, 2020, 01:14:17 pm
Also thought our contesting was poor after half time, apart from Cripps we had a few blokes watching rather than attacking the ball and a few who couldnt be bothered chasing or tackling.
Cripps played a blinder last Brisbane game and I wondered if a few of his team-mates thought he would take over again and they could just coast to the line on the back of the captain.

Yes, fair post EB. Brisbane are a serious unit, and after the R12 match last season they would have been smarting and out for revenge, points or no points. And don't worry about Fagan. I reckon under that cheery, avuncular exterior beats the heart of an old school fire and brimstone coach. Anyone who can keep Clarkson in check has to be a little intimidating.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: WASurfer on March 10, 2020, 01:16:14 pm
EB I'd add Silvagni and Walsh into that mix of blokes who had a red hot go. And Jones did a pretty good job on Hipwood given the amount of ball they had coming in after 1/4 time.

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 10, 2020, 03:19:03 pm
https://omny.fm/shows/3aw-sportsday/carlton-coach-david-teague-defends-pre-season-form?fbclid=IwAR2WW1fSlXNTjgq83-XZphw2sHxM4B6A9S7vHXt5V4TkE1mcdv8CSjAwm3k
Fix things by round 1? No Chance.
So we can a line through Stocker in the short term, he is a way off being in the mix according to the Coach.
Harry not playing round 1 for certain.
Marchy getting scans, its more than a knock on the knee is how I read it.

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 10, 2020, 03:28:50 pm
EB I'd add Silvagni and Walsh into that mix of blokes who had a red hot go. And Jones did a pretty good job on Hipwood given the amount of ball they had coming in after 1/4 time.


Those blokes you named always try and give you effort Surfie, its others who just are not consistent with their attack on the footy and chasing....
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 10, 2020, 03:39:00 pm
Dow's first 1-1/2 qtrs on the weekend were extraordinary, then the old Dow arrived!

Martin's ball use in impressive, but I worry if he maintains that scatter gun approach to hitting packs he won't prove durable. Having said that, I use to coach the kids that the best way to be injured was to become a spectating victim, aka roadkill for a nearby bully. Instead make your presence felt and your opponents will soon start to hesitate around you and leave some space for you to move in.

But, I didn't like Levi, SpecialK, SoJ and McGovern all flying against each other, it's seemed disorganised at best and stupid at worst. Eddie might get fat off that stuff, but it won't get us winning scores and the cost could be high because we'll be left at risk of hurting our own.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Inboltswetrust on March 10, 2020, 11:29:52 pm
You've been banging on for 10 years.....still yet to say something positive. No wonder noone listens.

Sorry Kruddler,  but where have we been on the ladder for the past 10 years?  Please mate, don't be personal.  I'm just being realistic. 
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Inboltswetrust on March 10, 2020, 11:38:13 pm

 
 I've been a bit worried about Kreuzer for a couple years now.

TBH, he simply isn't good enough. Injuries have ruined him.
His best is still quite good, but he is never allowed to perform at his best.

In an ideal world, TDK would replace him by seasons end.

Kreuzer, Murphy and Gibbs were all very ordinary number 1 draft picks.  It could be argued we butchered them all.  Are they crap footballers?  No they are not, but where do they really rank in terms of their real position in the draft from where they should have been taken?  I'd say, Murphy- pick 12-15,  Gibbs, pick 8-14, Kreuzer, Pick 15-20.  None are worthy of number 1.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: DJC on March 10, 2020, 11:54:14 pm
Kreuzer, Murphy and Gibbs were all very ordinary number 1 draft picks.  It could be argued we butchered them all.  Are they crap footballers?  No they are not, but where do they really rank in terms of their real position in the draft from where they should have been taken?  I'd say, Murphy- pick 12-15,  Gibbs, pick 8-14, Kreuzer, Pick 15-20.  None are worthy of number 1.

What a load of tripe  ::)

Of course, there’s no guarantee that number one draft picks will be the best players taken in that draft but Murphy and Kreuzer are easily in the best five, as is Gibbs on his form with us.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: DJC on March 11, 2020, 12:00:15 am
Sorry Kruddler,  but where have we been on the ladder for the past 10 years?  Please mate, don't be personal.  I'm just being realistic. 

Not realistic, pessimistic  :)

If anything, we have over-achieved with some ordinary sides.  That’s no excuse for mediocrity but the club has finally embraced the draft, free-agency and trading and we have a developing list.  I’m yet to be convinced that we have the coach to get the best out of our list but we are streets ahead of where we were when we last played finals.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: capcom on March 11, 2020, 06:50:34 am
What a load of tripe  ::)

Of course, there’s no guarantee that number one draft picks will be the best players taken in that draft but Murphy and Kreuzer are easily in the best five, as is Gibbs on his form with us.

Kruze and Murphy, yes, agree.  Gibbs?  Never.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 11, 2020, 07:25:38 am
Gibbs will start the year in the SANFL and is struggling,  while I fear that the mountain of injuries have caught up with K and I'm sorry to say it but the end looks close.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 11, 2020, 07:43:48 am
Not realistic, pessimistic  :)

If anything, we have over-achieved with some ordinary sides.  That’s no excuse for mediocrity but the club has finally embraced the draft, free-agency and trading and we have a developing list.  I’m yet to be convinced that we have the coach to get the best out of our list but we are streets ahead of where we were when we last played finals.

I'm curious to know what characteristics / attributes such a person would require ? So far as I can tell, we've exhausted all possible options. Old blokes with flags and million dollar contracts who bring in their own men to fill the football department, young rookies on a salary who work with what they have, favourite sons, old school fire and brimstone coaches, coaches with nothing but tickles and cuddles for the players........................
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 11, 2020, 06:37:22 pm
Sorry Kruddler,  but where have we been on the ladder for the past 10 years?  Please mate, don't be personal.  I'm just being realistic.

We were 1 kick away from a prelim and lost 2 other finals by under 10 points during that time. Also won a final against the tigers.

We've actually made finals 4 times out of the past 11 years believe it or not.

Kreuzer, Murphy and Gibbs were all very ordinary number 1 draft picks.  It could be argued we butchered them all.  Are they crap footballers?  No they are not, but where do they really rank in terms of their real position in the draft from where they should have been taken?  I'd say, Murphy- pick 12-15,  Gibbs, pick 8-14, Kreuzer, Pick 15-20.  None are worthy of number 1.

....and this is why people don't take your 'realistic' comments seriously.

Murphy was voted the best player in 2012 by AFL coaches. Nobody else from his draft year has achieved that, or any other significant individual award (Brownlow, AFLPA MVP etc)

So when you make sweeping statements like that, whatever possible good points you might have, just get thrown out the window because you 'overreach' in your criticisms. Hence, pessimistic, not realistic.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 11, 2020, 06:46:27 pm
2011. Minor point, but worth noting.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: DJC on March 11, 2020, 07:12:16 pm
I'm curious to know what characteristics / attributes such a person would require ? So far as I can tell, we've exhausted all possible options. Old blokes with flags and million dollar contracts who bring in their own men to fill the football department, young rookies on a salary who work with what they have, favourite sons, old school fire and brimstone coaches, coaches with nothing but tickles and cuddles for the players........................

AFL coach key selection criteria:
1 - Outstanding leadership ability.
2 - Exceptional communication skills.
3 - Good educator.
4 - Ability to develop and implement strategy.
5 - Ability to develop and implement proactive and reactive tactics.
6 - Receptive to mentoring.
7 - Coached an AFL team to finals at State level or higher.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 11, 2020, 07:19:23 pm
AFL coach key selection criteria:
1 - Outstanding leadership ability.
2 - Exceptional communication skills.
3 - Good educator.
4 - Ability to develop and implement strategy.
5 - Ability to develop and implement proactive and reactive tactics.
6 - Receptive to mentoring.
7 - Coached an AFL team to finals at State level or higher.

I've read about a bloke with those qualities, but he was crucified 2000 years ago. Some rumours around that he rose from the dead, but no confirmed sightings as yet. Will def keep an eye out.  :)
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 11, 2020, 10:26:11 pm
We were 1 kick away from a prelim and lost 2 other finals by under 10 points during that time. Also won a final against the tigers.

We've actually made finals 4 times out of the past 11 years believe it or not.

....and this is why people don't take your 'realistic' comments seriously.

Murphy was voted the best player in 2012 by AFL coaches. Nobody else from his draft year has achieved that, or any other significant individual award (Brownlow, AFLPA MVP etc)

So when you make sweeping statements like that, whatever possible good points you might have, just get thrown out the window because you 'overreach' in your criticisms. Hence, pessimistic, not realistic.

I'd have Pendlebury ahead of Murphy.....for consistency, premiership captain, Norm Smith in that premiership, 5 Copelands and still playing at a very high standard. even in the recent state game he was a standout all be it the game was played tamely. West Coast supporters would probably give you a hard argument on Hurn and Kennedy too. Hurn is a real captain along the same lines as Hodge and JK has been the premier forward for many seasons.
Daisy Thomas would also feature given he has a premiership and was deemed best in the comp at one stage...
Murphy has been good but I'm not rating him ahead of the others either as a leader or player...
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: sandsmere on March 12, 2020, 08:47:12 am
Sorry Kruddler,  but where have we been on the ladder for the past 10 years?  Please mate, don't be personal.  I'm just being realistic. 

A fair bit of time has rolled past since your mob won a flag too Ihwt.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 12, 2020, 11:14:27 am
I don't need to remind anybody that it's 25 since we won a flag.

That prelim final in Perth was what,  ten years ago, so long that it's irrelevant.  We've had four coaches since then.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 12, 2020, 08:15:12 pm
I'd have Pendlebury ahead of Murphy.....for consistency, premiership captain, Norm Smith in that premiership, 5 Copelands and still playing at a very high standard. even in the recent state game he was a standout all be it the game was played tamely. West Coast supporters would probably give you a hard argument on Hurn and Kennedy too. Hurn is a real captain along the same lines as Hodge and JK has been the premier forward for many seasons.
Daisy Thomas would also feature given he has a premiership and was deemed best in the comp at one stage...
Murphy has been good but I'm not rating him ahead of the others either as a leader or player...

I actually did some research before my comments (unlike who i was replying too) and i reckon you've named every single player that people COULD mount an argument for as being better than Murphy from that draft. Kennedy doesn't really count because he was ours anyway. Pendlebury, definitely. Others are a more subjective call. Only other ones i'd even entertain was probably Higgins, but he has underachieved most of his career and Nath Jones....but only edge he has over Murphy is hardness, maybe leadership. But output wise, nope.

BUT.....if you can pick 11 players better than Murphy from that draft.....you don't know football.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 12, 2020, 09:47:33 pm
A fair bit of time has rolled past since your mob won a flag too Ihwt.
5668 days since they won a final but who's counting (I assume you mean CheatsFC)
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 06:56:31 am
These players, Newnes and Ed are perennial butchers of the football.  It wouldn't matter if they had 30 touches, in fact, you don't want them to have 30 touches.  Ed is a tagger only.  He cannot kick properly- e.g all his kicks go up in the air.  Newnes was horrible at the saints (hence his dropping) and will be horrible at our club.  It is not rocket science.  Retreds are cheap but cause your car to be a danger to everyone on the road when they fail.  Our coaching is horrible (line coaches) and the board is a joke.  I have been saying this for about 10 years on here but noone listens.  17th or 18th.   Again.

Whilst I agree with some things, not sure I agree with the finer details - but you should definitely ask the mods to change your user name. Borderline sacrilege.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: sandsmere on March 13, 2020, 07:42:04 am
5668 days since they won a final but who's counting (I assume you mean CheatsFC)


spot on Gic.

gic
 
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 13, 2020, 08:12:13 am

spot on Gic.

gic
 

5669
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 13, 2020, 11:37:31 am
Whilst I agree with some things, not sure I agree with the finer details - but you should definitely ask the mods to change your user name. Borderline sacrilege.

" InTeaguewehope"
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 13, 2020, 11:50:02 am
Going worse case scenario,  we're all chips in with Teague,  what happens if end 2020 in the bottom four again?
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 13, 2020, 11:55:03 am
Going worse case scenario,  we're all chips in with Teague,  what happens if end 2020 in the bottom four again?
Probably get 2021 but be under all sorts of internal/external pressure and we know how that usually ends......Ross Lyon just cooling his jets in the media might be thinking he might be a sneaky chance especially if he can fix the relationship with Brad Lloyd.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 11:59:00 am
" InTeaguewehope"


Working the room very astutely as per usual EB.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 13, 2020, 03:24:20 pm
Going worse case scenario,  we're all chips in with Teague,  what happens if end 2020 in the bottom four again?
Goodbye David, hello Ross. And if nothing else, I'd guess Ross would sort out some of the princesses at the club.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 13, 2020, 03:30:11 pm
Goodbye David, hello Ross. And if nothing else, I'd guess Ross would sort out some of the princesses at the club.
Ross the Boss! ;)

SOS, out one door, in the other! ;D

Personally, I think Ross the Boss is the worst possible coach for our list, but then again the AFL Captain's survey suggests our list is rubbish anyway!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: cookie2 on March 13, 2020, 04:35:34 pm
Ross the Boss! ;)

SOS, out one door, in the other! ;D

Personally, I think Ross the Boss is the worst possible coach for our list, but then again the AFL Captain's survey suggests our list is rubbish anyway!

We still have some players who are major concerns for sure.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 06:12:05 pm
Goodbye David, hello Ross. And if nothing else, I'd guess Ross would sort out some of the princesses at the club.

There would be a mass player exodus if that occured. Not so much because Ross was brought in, but because Teague was fired.

He needs at least 2021 to make sure 2020 was not 'the norm' if it goes badly. We are already behind the 8-ball with Curnow/McKay forward line duo out indefinitely.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 13, 2020, 06:25:38 pm

Bolton had plenty of love from the players especially Cripps, Doc etc and nothing changed when he got fired out the door.
Players tend to adapt to the new situation and you often get that sugar hit of wins that overcomes resentment.
Teague forced his appointment by weight of results, Judd didnt want him but the results stacked up forcing the club to take on a L plate coach, but thats on the proviso he keeps delivering IMO, dont think injuries will be factored in.
Does depend on the CoVid19 and how the season is structured though, if its a badly interrupted season then all coaches would get a free pass for the year IMO.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 06:34:11 pm
Bolton had plenty of love from the players especially Cripps, Doc etc and nothing changed when he got fired out the door.
Players tend to adapt to the new situation and you often get that sugar hit of wins that overcomes resentment.
Teague forced his appointment by weight of results, Judd didnt want him but the results stacked up forcing the club to take on a L plate coach, but thats on the proviso he keeps delivering IMO, dont think injuries will be factored in.
Does depend on the CoVid19 and how the season is structured though, if its a badly interrupted season then all coaches would get a free pass for the year IMO.

The difference with Bolton is he had years with the players.

Teague would have had 1 year......different circumstances.

Whether you loved or hated Bolton, it was hard to argue that he was hard done by and we pulled the trigger too soon.
If we do the same with Teague after just 1 year, it would be a lot harder to justify his sacking than it was Bolton.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: WASurfer on March 13, 2020, 06:51:26 pm
I think sheer weight of numbers cost Bolton in the end. The losses kept piling up and as far as position on the ladder, we weren't improving one bit...regardless of whether he was good or not, those sort of results have a finite life and supporters, sponsors, members, board etc decide enough is enough. Teague won't have pressure on him this year but there needs to be improvement in players who've been there 3-5 years.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 07:00:45 pm
..................
Whether you loved or hated Bolton, it was hard to argue that he was hard done by and we pulled the trigger too soon.
..............

Nonsense. Things were never settled during Bolton's era. 50 player changes, change of CEO, change of List Manager, change of High Performance Manager, change of assistant coaches, illness and subsequent passing of his dad etc. 

Echoing the words of one of our other members (who doesn't post much anymore), Bolton has gone onto a senior position at the most successful and ruthless club of recent times. A club with a culture that is completely foreign to Carlton, and whilst the current board and others with deep pockets continue to rule the roost, that culture will remain foreign.

It's not about the coach. Teague will benefit from the hard work done by his predecessors, and will also benefit from a more settled club, a change of focus, and the inclusion of blokes like Docherty and Williamson. Under such circumstances, a rise up the ladder is virtually a given. But we will never be more than a mid table team until the big issues above the coach are addressed.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 07:13:24 pm
Nonsense. Things were never settled during Bolton's era. 50 player changes, change of CEO, change of List Manager, change of High Performance Manager, change of assistant coaches.

Echoing the words of one of our other members (who doesn't post much anymore), Bolton has gone onto a senior position at the most successful and ruthless club of recent times. A club with a culture that is completely foreign to Carlton, and whilst the current board and others with deep pockets continue to rule the roost, that culture will remain foreign.

It's not about the coach. Teague will benefit from the hard work done by his predecessors, and will also benefit from a more settled club, a change of focus, and the inclusion of blokes like Docherty and Williamson. Under such circumstances, a rise up the ladder is virtually a given. But we will never be more than a mid table team until the big issues above the coach are addressed.

I said it was hard....not impossible.

My issue with your argument is that almost none of it factors in how Bolton was going as a coach.
Almost everything points to past wrongs by the club.....which i agree with....but that does not make Bolton immune from the blow torch.

It is not either/or, it can be both.....and it was.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 13, 2020, 07:20:45 pm
There would be a mass player exodus if that occured. Not so much because Ross was brought in, but because Teague was fired.

He needs at least 2021 to make sure 2020 was not 'the norm' if it goes badly. We are already behind the 8-ball with Curnow/McKay forward line duo out indefinitely.
You'd would have said the same about Bolton, players moved on immediately, always have, always will.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 07:23:20 pm
I said it was hard....not impossible.

My issue with your argument is that almost none of it factors in how Bolton was going as a coach.
Almost everything points to past wrongs by the club.....which i agree with....but that does not make Bolton immune from the blow torch.

It is not either/or, it can be both.....and it was.

You can take the best operators, proven performers in other organisations (Pagan, Malthouse), stick them in a dysfunctional joint, and they will struggle, as history proves. If you don't have professionalism around you, if you're not united from top to bottom, if the people at the top just don't get it, then you will never get to where you want to go. The coach can only be as good as they're allowed to be. They are not the top dog - heck, they're not even top dog in their own department.

Bloody hell, Worsfold spelled it out as plain as day in the post match after the Bombers game, and our craven mob still didn't get it.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 07:27:36 pm
You can take the best operators, proven performers in other organisations (Pagan, Malthouse), stick them in a dysfunctional joint, and they will struggle, as history proves. If you don't have professionalism around you, if you're not united from top to bottom, if the people at the top just don't get it, then you will never get to where you want to go. The coach can only be as good as they're allowed to be. They are not the top dog - heck, they're not even top dog in their own department.

Bloody hell, Worsfold spelled it out as plain as day in the post match after the Bombers game, and our craven mob still didn't get it.

...again....that doesn't mean Bolton is a good coach and one we should have kept. That just means others probably would've failed too.

I'm not arguing that point. I acknowledge it and have championed it for over a decade myself.
You are refusing to even acknowledge that perhaps some of the blame sits with him too.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 13, 2020, 07:30:02 pm
I said it was hard....not impossible.

My issue with your argument is that almost none of it factors in how Bolton was going as a coach.
Almost everything points to past wrongs by the club.....which i agree with....but that does not make Bolton immune from the blow torch.

It is not either/or, it can be both.....and it was.
Bolton coached within the guidelines and parameters set by those above him and in accordance with a complete list rebuild. All of a sudden, the goal posts and KPIs changed and he was a dead man walking. The spectre of senior coaches being available also loomed over the top and played a part in his demise/dismissal, just as the spectre of Malthouse loomed over Ratts. As many have said time and time again, "rinse and repeat". It should be our slogan as its the only mantra our club truly lives by (without fail).
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 07:34:57 pm
You'd would have said the same about Bolton, players moved on immediately, always have, always will.

Point i am trying to make is this.

Results over 1 year can vary wildly depending on many things, including plain dumb luck. (Look at Brittain, and the year Ratten got sacked)
Results over many years tell a much better story.

A player both at Carlton, and looking in at Carlton see us sacking Bolton after years of failure and think, ok, well he probably had it coming, but they gave him a fair crack. There was no knee-jerk reaction.

A player both at Carlton, and looking in at Carlton see us sacking Teague 1 year after we appointed him after sacking Bolton and see a basketcase or was quick to pull the trigger and thus would be quick to do it again in the future.  (Ala Tigers prior to Hardwick).
Constant 'resetting' or rebuilding. Better to jump NOW.

1 year tells you nothing......unless you sack the coach....and then it tells you too much.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 07:36:24 pm
...again....that doesn't mean Bolton is a good coach and one we should have kept. That just means others probably would've failed too.

I'm not arguing that point. I acknowledge it and have championed it for over a decade myself.
You are refusing to even acknowledge that perhaps some of the blame sits with him too.

Given our track record since Brittain, logic would dictate that any blame must lie overwhelmingly with the club.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 13, 2020, 07:41:40 pm
Point i am trying to make is this.

Results over 1 year can vary wildly depending on many things, including plain dumb luck. (Look at Brittain, and the year Ratten got sacked)
Results over many years tell a much better story.

A player both at Carlton, and looking in at Carlton see us sacking Bolton after years of failure and think, ok, well he probably had it coming, but they gave him a fair crack. There was no knee-jerk reaction.

A player both at Carlton, and looking in at Carlton see us sacking Teague 1 year after we appointed him after sacking Bolton and see a basketcase or was quick to pull the trigger and thus would be quick to do it again in the future.  (Ala Tigers prior to Hardwick).
Constant 'resetting' or rebuilding. Better to jump NOW.

1 year tells you nothing......unless you sack the coach....and then it tells you too much.
Im tipping a player looking in at Carlton would have said "yep they've done it again, sacked another coach".
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 07:43:18 pm
Given our track record since Brittain, logic would dictate that any blame must lie overwhelmingly with the club.

Are you reading what i am writing?

I've taken issue with the club on this for over a decade. That goes without saying that we have issues at the club.

This does NOT mean Bolton is a supercoach who would win a flag at any other club.......or even a 'good' coach at all.

His W/L record is the worst from a coach who has coached 80 games, for 100 years! There is only 1 worse than him, and he coached his last game in 1920.

No previous coach at Carlton has been that bad, not even during our post salary cap slump. So club issues aside, comparing him with others its just embarrassing.
Even Guy McKenna has a better coaching record than him and Gold Coast are far worse off than us, both off-field and talent wise.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 07:44:57 pm
Im tipping a player looking in at Carlton would have said "yep they've done it again, sacked another coach".


Followed by, "why would anyone want to play at that basketcase of a club?"
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 08:05:09 pm
Are you reading what i am writing?

I've taken issue with the club on this for over a decade. That goes without saying that we have issues at the club.

This does NOT mean Bolton is a supercoach who would win a flag at any other club.......or even a 'good' coach at all.

His W/L record is the worst from a coach who has coached 80 games, for 100 years! There is only 1 worse than him, and he coached his last game in 1920.

No previous coach at Carlton has been that bad, not even during our post salary cap slump. So club issues aside, comparing him with others its just embarrassing.
Even Guy McKenna has a better coaching record than him and Gold Coast are far worse off than us, both off-field and talent wise.

I'm perfectly aware of his record, having seen it printed on here 18,000 times. Looking at who has the worst record, second worst, third worst is irrelevant in the context of this discussion. If you showed a person the records of all our post-Brittain coaches and nothing else, the logical conclusion would be that they were all sh1t coaches. And before you complain about me not focussing on Bolton's qualities as a coach, him not being tested at other clubs etc., the circumstantial evidence to compare him favourably with other failed coaches, is in my view, overwhelming.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 08:06:47 pm
delete
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 08:21:46 pm
I'm perfectly aware of his record, having seen it printed on here 18,000 times. Looking at who has the worst record, second worst, third worst is irrelevant in the context of this discussion. If you showed a person the records of all our post-Brittain coaches and nothing else, the logical conclusion would be that they were all sh1t coaches. And before you complain about me not focussing on Bolton's qualities as a coach, him not being tested at other clubs etc., the circumstantial evidence to compare him favourably with other failed coaches, is in my view, overwhelming.

Compared to Ratten? I don't think so.

Compared to 2 ageing coaches who retired after we ruined them? Thats up for debate.

You love Bolts, we all know that.

I said the moment he was sacked that he will get another coaching gig, at least as an assistant, and was laughed at. Didn't take long did it.

That being said, you simply can NOT ignore his record. You can't.
You can say his record would not have been that bad had he not been at Carlton, and you would find people who agree with you.

But if you think Bolton is blameless in his time at Carlton you are extremely naive.....or Bolton is.
Here is where you say he was just doing as he was told...
Here is the part i say that if he failed to realise that the odd win was important for his team and his career then he is simply not cut out for AFL football.

Whether he was incapable of getting wins, or he thought his job did not require them, then either way he was not up to being an elite AFL coach.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 09:07:49 pm
Yes, I definitely liked Bolton, much as I liked Ratten. I wasn't so keen about Mick or Pagan, but my personal feelings about any of them are irrelevant. It has nothing to do with ignoring his record, and everything to do with seeing a very clear and troubling pattern of behaviour over 20 years. and seeing all those coaching records in a proper context. If it was only him that sucked, I would be fine with it.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 09:11:28 pm
Yes, I definitely liked Bolton, much as I liked Ratten. I wasn't so keen about Mick or Pagan, but my personal feelings about any of them are irrelevant. It has nothing to do with ignoring his record, and everything to do with seeing a very clear and troubling pattern of behaviour over 20 years. and seeing all those coaching records in a proper context. If it was only him that sucked, I would be fine with it.

There are degrees of 'sucking' and he sucked more than anyone else. Ignore that at your own peril.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 13, 2020, 09:14:47 pm
We didn't ruin Malthouse,  he was a shot duck before we hired him.   Burned out,  finished,  whatever,  he was cooked and never committed to the task.   Seriously,  instead of assessing the list etc  he went on a book promotional tour.   Wasted years.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 09:16:58 pm
There are degrees of 'sucking' and he sucked more than anyone else. Ignore that at your own peril.

Given the power structures, lines of reporting, club direction, decision making etc., you cannot view a coach's record in isolation, nor as a sole indicator of ability.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2020, 09:26:02 pm
Given the power structures, lines of reporting, club direction, decision making etc., you cannot view a coach's record in isolation, nor as a sole indicator of ability.

Who said i was?

I was comparing him to every other coach during similar circumstances at our club.
I was comparing him to Teague who took over after him.

They are apples and apples.

If you want to take that a step further and compare against coaches who have coached 80 games or more, then he has the 2nd worst record....or worst in 100 years.
Now, we've had some issues during this time, sure. 25 years since our last flag.
But.....Swans, Dogs went 60-70 years, Cats 50+ years, Dees are 60 years now, Dockers haven't won one in their 25 years....saints have only won 1 in 125 years of footy.
Fitzroy have been booted from the competition. Bears too.

So there are plenty of 'crap teams/clubs etc' going around.....but none have performed worse than with our mate.

So compare him to whoever you want past, present and future. He was found lacking. Simple.

I'm not saying its 100% his fault.....but you are saying its 0% his fault....and i cannot buy that....and nobody else seems to either.

Whatever % it is in reality is purely speculative.....but it is not zero....or 1%....it is somewhat significant.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 13, 2020, 09:40:16 pm
After 11 games, both he and Dinkum Dave have the same record. And our pre season wasn't great, so once the 2019 post bye euphoria wears off, there's not much in it.

Winning flags is the ultimate, but most clubs think of regular finals, and I guess going deep into finals, as a measure of success. What happened 50 years ago is not really relevant. Thinking of more recent times, he is the latest in a long line of entrenched failure. You may feel a certain smug satisfaction from believing he failed more than our other recent coaches, but I see no value in ranking failure. A spoon is a spoon, and a sacking is a sacking. If you want to count 1 win here, and 1 loss there,  knock yourself out.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2020, 02:45:01 pm
We didn't ruin Malthouse,  he was a shot duck before we hired him.   Burned out,  finished,  whatever,  he was cooked and never committed to the task.   Seriously,  instead of assessing the list etc  he went on a book promotional tour.   Wasted years.

In 2011, 12 months before we hired him. Malthouse took his team to the minor premiership, a GF appearance, and a % of 167.7. That % is the best of any team since 2000, still not bested to this day.

He became a shot duck after he came to us, when he realised that he was working for a bunch of provincial lunkheads who would not be out of place on The Beverly Hillbillies.

In the interest of honesty and transparency, I implore the Carlton Football Club to install a device on the senior coach's door that calls out the word "sucker" every time it opens and closes.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: DJC on March 14, 2020, 03:08:14 pm
In 2011, 12 months before we hired him. Malthouse took his team to the minor premiership, a GF appearance, and a % of 167.7. That % is the best of any team since 2000, still not bested to this day.

He became a shot duck after he came to us, when he realised that he was working for a bunch of provincial lunkheads who would not be out of place on The Beverly Hillbillies.

In the interest of honesty and transparency, I implore the Carlton Football Club to install a device on the senior coach's door that calls out the word "sucker" every time it opens and closes.


I think the duck was shot by Eddie with his Buckley transition plan.  Losing his job, at what I’m sure Malthouse considered to be the height of his powers, knocked the stuffing out him.  His demeanour, and coaching, became more about self-preservation and self-interest and he seemed determined to prove that his tried and true approach would hold up when everyone else had moved on.

The situation was compounded by an ill-prepared, poorly-managed club giving him free rein, then making a shambles of trying to rein him in.

Bolton had the advantage of a united club but a dismal list.  Teague has a much stronger list, albeit with some issues, but I don’t think he has a united club behind him.  He certainly is under more pressure to succeed than Bolton did and that has the potential to send us spiralling out of control    :-\
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: townsendcalling on March 14, 2020, 03:18:07 pm
We didn't ruin Malthouse,  he was a shot duck before we hired him.  

He was only fixated on 2 things:
Revenge against Eddie
Jock McHale’s coaching record.

Nothing else mattered!! (Oh, the paycheck helped!!)
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2020, 03:44:36 pm
I think the duck was shot by Eddie with his Buckley transition plan.  Losing his job, at what I’m sure Malthouse considered to be the height of his powers, knocked the stuffing out him.  His demeanour, and coaching, became more about self-preservation and self-interest and he seemed determined to prove that his tried and true approach would hold up when everyone else had moved on.

The situation was compounded by an ill-prepared, poorly-managed club giving him free rein, then making a shambles of trying to rein him in.

Bolton had the advantage of a united club but a dismal list.  Teague has a much stronger list, albeit with some issues, but I don’t think he has a united club behind him.  He certainly is under more pressure to succeed than Bolton did and that has the potential to send us spiralling out of control    :-\

I agree in parts, disagree in others. The succession plan was in the works for 2 or 3 years, certainly through 2010 and 2011, and his record in those 2 seasons speaks for itself. So I think his tried and true methods were working quite well, and I don't think he was shot. I think the 2011 GF he was pretty overwrought and didn't have his best game, but that's probably understandable. What finished him off IMO was not Eddie, but us.

There's no doubt in my mind that Mick is a cunning old coot. You don't survive and thrive in the bear pits of various footy clubs for 30 years unless you are a tough, resilient political operator, with a sound (albeit layperson's) understanding of human behavior, interpersonal relationships, group dynamics etc. I'm not his greatest fan, but that was a bitter end to a very distinguished coaching career, needlessly bitter in my view.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: capcom on March 14, 2020, 04:08:21 pm
Malthouse brought his "play the boundary" Collingwood rubbish to a Carlton list totally incapable in terms of skills in carrying out the plan.  It was inflexible, lazy and straight out dumb strategy. 

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2020, 04:33:58 pm
Malthouse brought his "play the boundary" Collingwood rubbish to a Carlton list totally incapable in terms of skills in carrying out the plan.  It was inflexible, lazy and straight out dumb strategy. 

It's a turnovers game these days, and scoring from turnovers is valued very highly. All teams go around the boundary coming out of D50, precisely to minimise the opposition scoring.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: madbluboy on March 14, 2020, 04:47:35 pm
I bashed Pagan more than anyone here but just like Malthouse he was a bonafide supercoach before arriving at Princes Park.

It's pretty clear it's us not them.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: cookie2 on March 14, 2020, 04:52:10 pm
After 11 games, both he and Dinkum Dave have the same record. And our pre season wasn't great, so once the 2019 post bye euphoria wears off, there's not much in it.

Winning flags is the ultimate, but most clubs think of regular finals, and I guess going deep into finals, as a measure of success. What happened 50 years ago is not really relevant. Thinking of more recent times, he is the latest in a long line of entrenched failure. You may feel a certain smug satisfaction from believing he failed more than our other recent coaches, but I see no value in ranking failure. A spoon is a spoon, and a sacking is a sacking. If you want to count 1 win here, and 1 loss there,  knock yourself out.

Unfortunately we can only regard the failure of a growing string of coaches as a collective failure of the club over a prolonged period of time. I don't believe any of us on here would know fully what has being going on behind the scenes and how it may have affected the coach and so I don't think that there is a  lot to be gained from finger pointing at individuals. I think though that there may still be a significant degree of turmoil in play at the club and I'm not really optimistic about the coming season. Just hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2020, 05:00:59 pm
I bashed Pagan more than anyone here but just like Malthouse he was a bonafide supercoach before arriving at Princes Park.

It's pretty clear it's us not them.

Yes, in the absence of any genuine facts or knowledge, the circumstantial evidence is, in my view, pretty overwhelming.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2020, 05:07:24 pm
Unfortunately we can only regard the failure of a growing string of coaches as a collective failure of the club over a prolonged period of time. I don't believe any of us on here would know fully what has being going on behind the scenes and how it may have affected the coach and so I don't think that there is a  lot to be gained from finger pointing at individuals. I think though that there may still be a significant degree of turmoil in play at the club and I'm not really optimistic about the coming season. Just hope I'm wrong.

Yes, we only see the tip of the iceberg, and even then not very clearly. Still, this is an online version of mates at a pub, dinner party conversations, shooting the breeze at a bbq etc., so idle speculation and theorising is pretty much all we have.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2020, 05:23:49 pm
Malthouse brought his "play the boundary" Collingwood rubbish to a Carlton list totally incapable in terms of skills in carrying out the plan.  It was inflexible, lazy and straight out dumb strategy. 


Agree, trying to get a ball butcher list to play cute football was a big mistake, we needed a simple low risk, minimal handle the ball plan. Ok turnovers might cost you going down the middle but we had no hope trying to guide the ball the long way with more possessions needed.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 14, 2020, 06:20:07 pm
Alan Jeans was asked long ago the secret to his success as a coach. He replied, "Cattle". L Matthews said the same thing.

IMHO our troubles started in the mid 90s and weren't properly addressed until very recent years. Salary cap cheating/penalties didn't help.

Pagan was handed a poison chalice, had a very ordinary list and was clearly the wrong bloke for that diabolical situation. Ratts had a half decent list 2009-2011, resting on the shoulders of C. Judd. BB was handed a list rebuild/kids/GWS rejects/some trade shockers/duds, and did an amazing job -- along with the marketing dept -- to hold the place together for 2 years with very little in the way of 'cattle'. But he couldn't transition from the coaching style appropriate to the initial rebuild. Too deeply mired in a defensive game plan that focussed on avoiding a hiding. But he miraculously kept spirits high... until late in year 3 and then year 4 when the wins had to start coming.

And I'm sure that DT is fully aware that his success is also tied to 'cattle.' DT has inherited some strong foundations and loads of potential. But I'm not as bullish as some re the quality of our list as a potential finalist. Failing to get at one or two of Mitchell, Smith, Rockliff, Saad, Scully, Coniglio, Shiel (all blokes we were linked to - made a play for) was a deeply concerning result. DT has a better list than BB did and more stability which affords him the ability to be more attacking. But, ultimately, it'll come down to the cattle... again.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Professer E on March 14, 2020, 09:48:00 pm
Malthouse may have been a good coach, but he was cooked and only took the job with us to give the finger to Eddie.   Started off by disenfranchising the players.  For a supposed supercoach that's straight out stupid.   I'm not saying the list was good,  but if you lose them before you start they are never going to perform
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 15, 2020, 07:09:42 am
Malthouse may have been a good coach, but he was cooked and only took the job with us to give the finger to Eddie.   Started off by disenfranchising the players.  For a supposed supercoach that's straight out stupid.   I'm not saying the list was good,  but if you lose them before you start they are never going to perform

I respectfully disagree. He was and is a good coach IMO. I find it rather amusing that only our players crack the sads - the Pies players, Eagles etc. all happy to play under him, but not us.

I've not met one single person who thinks his career or reputation is any way diminished as a result of his time at Carlton. Not one.

He's grumpy, curmudgeonly and combative, and given his record with us, is therefore easy to dislike. Not surprising that becomes an easy target for disillusioned, pitchfork wielding Blues supporters, looking for someone to blame, and yet again, not seeing the forest for the trees.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 15, 2020, 10:41:29 am
I respectfully disagree. He was and is a good coach IMO.
I can't agree with you on this one PaulP.

I've stated consistently since before MM arrived, he was cooked, a known known operating to formula that was already redundant. His old autocratic ways are seriously incapable of matching a collaborative inclusive approach to coaching. No matter how good someone is, one mind doesn't defeat the many! He'd be even worse now in the runner restriction environment, because by the time he hands out another boundary line roast it's all too late!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: PaulP on March 15, 2020, 10:55:42 am
I can't agree with you on this one PaulP.

I've stated consistently since before MM arrived, he was cooked, a known known operating to formula that was already redundant. His old autocratic ways are seriously incapable of matching a collaborative inclusive approach to coaching. No matter how good someone is, one mind doesn't defeat the many! He'd be even worse now in the runner restriction environment, because by the time he hands out another boundary line roast it's all too late!

If this is true, I can only assume that things change incredibly quickly in AFL football, like overnight quickly. He was hero in 2011, then zero from 2013 onwards ? Think back over history and tell me how many coaches have fallen off the perch so rapidly, and see if you can do it without mentioning the word "Carlton."
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: LP on March 15, 2020, 11:05:42 am
If this is true, I can only assume that things change incredibly quickly in AFL football, like overnight quickly. He was hero in 2011, then zero from 2013 onwards ? Think back over history and tell me how many coaches have fallen off the perch so rapidly, and see if you can do it without mentioning the word "Carlton."
Things do change quickly PaulP, all it takes sometimes is a little success or profit and the tide changes, the rapid expansion of the coaching panels has already been identified as a problem in this regard, which is why the AFL introduced the soft cap.

Another example, have a look at how quickly four on the bench and rotations changed football, in the space of two seasons we were all watching a different sport!
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Baggers on March 15, 2020, 11:11:31 am
Somewhat like Pagan, MM arrived (courtesy of his CEO buddy) and found himself in the middle of a mess. Very ordinary list (to be generous), divided Board, cr@p recruiting and development and his CEO mate on thin ice. Although his motives for taking the gig would be questionable (prove something to others) I'm sure that when he found himself in the rooms with the players all that was forgotten and he found what was needed for the players. Testament to his relationship with the players was how much most liked him. There were a few sooks who didn't like his ways but you always get them, with anyone.

Like many, I didn't like his crotchety attitude to the media but with MM it really is a big dose of 'love me love my dog.' I actually see MMs failure as a whole club failure, in many ways on many levels.

The Trigg/MLG/Liddle era has at least united the good ship PP on an agreed course. If that course is indeed correct, we should start reaping obvious benefits, on field, very soon... he writes, fingers crossed, staring at the heavens...

Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 15, 2020, 12:51:46 pm

The Trigg/MLG/Liddle era has at least united the good ship PP on an agreed course.

Really? Many would beg to differ, SOS and Bolts to name few. "But they're gone now, aint nuttin you can do about that". To me? nothing has changed from a playing list output. CEO's and Coaches have changed and we are still losing more than we win. I say again, I know it was only a praccy match v Bris but its the way we lost (rinse repeat). The signs were telling. Happy to be proven wrong, dont think I will be.
Title: Re: Carlton vs Brisbane Practice Match
Post by: cookie2 on March 15, 2020, 05:03:53 pm
Really? Many would beg to differ, SOS and Bolts to name few. "But they're gone now, aint nuttin you can do about that". To me? nothing has changed from a playing list output. CEO's and Coaches have changed and we are still losing more than we win. I say again, I know it was only a praccy match v Bris but its the way we lost (rinse repeat). The signs were telling. Happy to be proven wrong, dont think I will be.

Yes "inputs" continue to be meddled with but no evidence as yet as to improved "outcomes"........