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Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #15
Bolton is on a contract that's apparently not a contract.

This.

A rose is a rose, and by another name would smell the same.


The rest is just spin.  Perhaps he has more protection than the average contract, and is a permanent employee of the business, but a fixed term contract is no different to a regular contract.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #16
I thought I'd dig up some stats from the last 10 seasons. These are examples of rapid rises up the ladder over 1 or 2 seasons.

14th > 2nd (1 season)
13 > 3 (1)
18 > 7 (1)
14 > 6 (1)
10 > 2 (1)
16 > 4 (2)
12 > 4 (1)
16 > 7 (2)
13 > 3 (1)
18 > 9 (2)
13 > 2 (2)
16 > 4 (1)
14 > 6 (1)

On average, 1 team will jump up 8+ ladder positions in a single season.
Who will it be this year?

That's really interesting - thanks, FIB.

Well, we can take out the top 7!!

I hate to say it - in fact I have a little bit of vomit in my mouth as I do - but I think the Bombres look the most likely.

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #17
I think the key difference is that if nothing happens with a regular contract, the contract will expire and the person would no longer be the coach. A new contract would need to be negotiated.

With Bolts, if nothing happens he will continue to be our coach indefinitely, maintaining the same conditions he has now.

Whilst it will never remove speculation about his position, it does remove the time pressure that all the others have as they reach the end of their contract period.
It annoys me every time I read or hear a reference to his employment relationship communicated as though a non fixed term agreement is, by default, less certain that a fixed term agreement. The  distinction on its own is irrelevant; depending on how its done it may be even more secure.


Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #19
Sorry,  but hindsight analysis is utter crap.... And I don't rate his current predictions let alone him trawling through the past.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?


Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #21
This.

A rose is a rose, and by another name would smell the same.


The rest is just spin.  Perhaps he has more protection than the average contract, and is a permanent employee of the business, but a fixed term contract is no different to a regular contract.

I really don't get this view.

AFL coaches have a contract with their clubs that sets out the term of the contract, remuneration, criteria for terminating the contract and, probably, performance criteria.  Bolton is employed by Carlton and both parties will have signed an employment agreement that specifies remuneration, superannuation, leave entitlements, sick leave and financial arrangements in the event of Carlton wishing to terminate Bolton's employment.  Bolton's employment is subject to the federal industrial relations system, contracted AFL coaches aren't.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #22
Sorry,  but hindsight analysis is utter crap.... And I don't rate his current predictions let alone him trawling through the past.

Weiters, Curnow and Harry were a great result from that draft. SOJ and Cunners are yet to make an impact although I do hold hope for both, SOJ has the smarts but needs to find a spot, Cunners needs a clear run to show what he's got. Can't complain about this draft result unlike countless others.
The Ox is slow but I'm running out of patience.

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #23
I really don't get this view.

AFL coaches have a contract with their clubs that sets out the term of the contract, remuneration, criteria for terminating the contract and, probably, performance criteria.  Bolton is employed by Carlton and both parties will have signed an employment agreement that specifies remuneration, superannuation, leave entitlements, sick leave and financial arrangements in the event of Carlton wishing to terminate Bolton's employment.  Bolton's employment is subject to the federal industrial relations system, contracted AFL coaches aren't.

I've been a fixed term contractor before.  There is minimal difference to contract term aside from leave benefits and even then sometimes contractors get provisions for that dependant on the contract.



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

 

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #24
I've been a fixed term contractor before.  There is minimal difference to contract term aside from leave benefits and even then sometimes contractors get provisions for that dependant on the contract.

Fair enough - the industrial relations system that applies to all employees must be wrong  :)
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #25
I've been a fixed term contractor before.  There is minimal difference to contract term aside from leave benefits and even then sometimes contractors get provisions for that dependant on the contract.

In the context of Bolton's security of tenure, that minimal difference may be rather significant. An independent contractor isn't protected against unfair dismissal; best he hope for is monetary compensation for the remaining term of the breached agreement. On the other hand, an employee is afforded a protection against unfair dismissal; monetary or reinstatement.

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #26
This.

A rose is a rose, and by another name would smell the same.


The rest is just spin.  Perhaps he has more protection than the average contract, and is a permanent employee of the business, but a fixed term contract is no different to a regular contract.

Contracts mean nothing. If you're a coach and the team tanks the club will fire you no matter what contract you have in place. They will negotiate a settlement of course.

Bolton is a permanent employee with protections in his contract. If he gets fired he gets a payout. No different to a contract in reality. The benefit for everyone is there is no media hype about the impending end of a contract.

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #27
Weiters, Curnow and Harry were a great result from that draft. SOJ and Cunners are yet to make an impact although I do hold hope for both, SOJ has the smarts but needs to find a spot, Cunners needs a clear run to show what he's got. Can't complain about this draft result unlike countless others.

Agreed.

A bunch of the guys in that list were mature aged in the draft so that's kind of meaningless.

Re: Pelchen's permutations and prognostications

Reply #28
In the context of Bolton's security of tenure, that minimal difference may be rather significant. An independent contractor isn't protected against unfair dismissal; best he hope for is monetary compensation for the remaining term of the breached agreement. On the other hand, an employee is afforded a protection against unfair dismissal; monetary or reinstatement.

If Carlton want to sack Bolton, no industrial relations will keep him in the job, and he will be paid out accordingly.

Part of this deal will be an exit strategy for both coach and club in the event it all goes pear shaped, and keeping someone in place that either party doesnt want to be there is a recipe for doom.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson