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Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Amers on
I just had a bit of a play and came up with this !!

It's not really a best 22 or a rnd 1 22, TBH I'm not really sure what it is !! Probably more so what I would like to see at some stage.

Carlton 22

FB, Simpson, Jamison, Everitt
HB, Touhy, Henderson, Docherty
C, Thomas, Gibbs, Yarran
R, Kreuzer, Bell, Murphy
HF, Menzel, Waite, Judd
FF, Walker, Casboult, Garlett

INT, McLean, Armfield, Cripps, Robinson

Northern Blues

FB, Bootsma, Watson, McInnes
HB, Duigan, Giles, Scotland
C, Lucas, Curnow, Buckley
R, Warnock, Carrazzo, Graham
HF, Temay, Rowe, Holman
FF, Ellard, White, Reynolds

INT, Woods, Cachia, Johnson, Sheehan

Emg, Bryne

A few thoughts;

There is some really good flexibility in our 1st team, I think MM would be happy with that.

I would love to see Judd spend a lot more time out of the centre square. If the likes of Bell and Cripps can step up in that area, I think it might really help Juddy's game.

While Walker and Everitt are interchangeable, I think I prefer Walker forward and Everitt back.

I'm hoping that Docherty can come in and play Yarran's run and carry role off half back straight away. Yarran to play on the wing or forward of centre.

No Scotland or Carrazzo in the 1st 22, they will need to force a younger player out to get a game, either way it's healthy competition !!

I think we have a really potent forward line, Caboult as a stay at home FF, Waite and Walker as the leading forwards. Menzel and Garlett are both class, and a number of goal kicking mids to fill the last spot.

The backline has height, flexability and experience. My biggest issue with our backline this year is it's coach !! Barker.

From the NB's, Buckley stood out to me as the player I would really like to press hard and make a claim for a spot in our 1st 22

Agree re. Barker and definitely Buckley. It's his last chance but he looks very talented.

Barker's forward line lacked any semblance of a system. You'd swear we never had a fwd coach.

Can't see Bell or Docherty starting the season in the team unless they have fantastic NAB cups.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #16 –
Looking at the game time given to Lachie Whitfield, Ollie Wines, Sam Mayes and Nick Vlastuin (all higher picks than Troy Menzel in the 2012 draft) and the speculation that without a 'knee history' he was top 3 all the way, can we expect  Menzel to keep a regular place in the side AND create an impact??

(Most speculators here have him in their team)

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #17 –
I saw glimpses of Menzel in 2013 that had me feeling very positive about his future at Carlton - I think he has genuine class and hopefully he can be a big star for us, maybe starting next year. With Eddie gone we will have to think differently about our forward set-up and this kid can shine IMHO.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #18 –
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #19 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

Yes Elwood, it's going to be very interesting to see how things go with our forward set-up with all the new blood coming in. Much as I loved Eddie, looking back, I think he caused us to be too predictable with our forward entry and options. I'm expecting a few things to change dramatically next year, even if we haven't managed to land a power KPF.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #20 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.

The rest he looks good.  Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker.  Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.

The rest he looks good.  Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker.  Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.

I noticed he went to ground a lot. He probably doesn't have confidence to put all his weight on that knee and hold his ground.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #22 –
Gonna be some selection dilemmas if the the list is fit and healthy. Trying to pick the best 22 does my head in this time of the year and rnd 1.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Gonna be some selection dilemmas if the the list is fit and healthy. Trying to pick the best 22 does my head in this time of the year and rnd 1.

This season makes it even worse. I guess that means the depth is getting stronger. From what I can see.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #24 –
Quote from: MilkIt on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.

The rest he looks good.  Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker.  Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.

I noticed he went to ground a lot. He probably doesn't have confidence to put all his weight on that knee and hold his ground.

That's what I noticed too; falls over far too often to be a genuine best 22 contender.  Hopefully it was first season nerves or getting used to the tempo and he'll come on next season. 
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.

The rest he looks good.  Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker.  Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.

The Menzel boy has a great, really great footy brain. Some of his gives to advantage this year were absolutely sublime... he reads the play like a bona fide champ. His attack on the aggott and man is also first rate. His foot disposal is excellent though his shots on goal are just above average.

If the club thinks his knee will not stand up then they should just put him in for standard surgery and write off 2014 for the kid. But maybe this lars surgery has been a real success and all he needs is experience to be the player he can be.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Baggers on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.

The rest he looks good.  Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker.  Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.

The Menzel boy has a great, really great footy brain. Some of his gives to advantage this year were absolutely sublime... he reads the play like a bona fide champ. His attack on the aggott and man is also first rate. His foot disposal is excellent though his shots on goal are just above average.

If the club thinks his knee will not stand up then they should just put him in for standard surgery and write off 2014 for the kid. But maybe this lars surgery has been a real success and all he needs is experience to be the player he can be.

I admire your optimism Baggers but you have seen an awful lot in a bloke who only averaged 7 touches and 2 tackles a game.

I hope you're right but I'm reserving judgement until I see him get his share of the ball, and stay on his feet.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #27 –
Quote from: DJC on
Quote from: Baggers on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.

The rest he looks good.  Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker.  Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.

The Menzel boy has a great, really great footy brain. Some of his gives to advantage this year were absolutely sublime... he reads the play like a bona fide champ. His attack on the aggott and man is also first rate. His foot disposal is excellent though his shots on goal are just above average.

If the club thinks his knee will not stand up then they should just put him in for standard surgery and write off 2014 for the kid. But maybe this lars surgery has been a real success and all he needs is experience to be the player he can be.

I admire your optimism Baggers but you have seen an awful lot in a bloke who only averaged 7 touches and 2 tackles a game.

I hope you're right but I'm reserving judgement until I see him get his share of the ball, and stay on his feet.
Im with Baggers here.  His stats are skewed somewhat by being subbed, and being made sub a couple of times, and its not the number of things you do, its what you do when you get involved that counts.

Every single action he made when involved in the play was good.

My issue is the agility when the ball hits the deck.  For me, its not that he goes to ground too often, its the way he straightens his leg out when going to ground.  obviously lacking confidence in that knee.  Its almost like he is "stiff".  I have seen many other knee recoverers do the same thing, but they dont do it forever.  They usually do it for a couple of seasons and then return to "normal".
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #28 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: DJC on
Quote from: Baggers on
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...

I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.

The rest he looks good.  Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker.  Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.

The Menzel boy has a great, really great footy brain. Some of his gives to advantage this year were absolutely sublime... he reads the play like a bona fide champ. His attack on the aggott and man is also first rate. His foot disposal is excellent though his shots on goal are just above average.

If the club thinks his knee will not stand up then they should just put him in for standard surgery and write off 2014 for the kid. But maybe this lars surgery has been a real success and all he needs is experience to be the player he can be.

I admire your optimism Baggers but you have seen an awful lot in a bloke who only averaged 7 touches and 2 tackles a game.

I hope you're right but I'm reserving judgement until I see him get his share of the ball, and stay on his feet.
Im with Baggers here.  His stats are skewed somewhat by being subbed, and being made sub a couple of times, and its not the number of things you do, its what you do when you get involved that counts.

Every single action he made when involved in the play was good.

My issue is the agility when the ball hits the deck.  For me, its not that he goes to ground too often, its the way he straightens his leg out when going to ground.  obviously lacking confidence in that knee.  Its almost like he is "stiff".  I have seen many other knee recoverers do the same thing, but they dont do it forever.  They usually do it for a couple of seasons and then return to "normal".

Looks like he's got a fair bit of filling out to do. Once that happens the stress really comes on the joints. Hope that knee holds up - we know the story with his brother.

I admire the optimism here - just hoping he avoids the "second year blues" that so many young blokes get.

However, its a good point that without Eddie there he does have a spot to walk into and make his own. Will balance the team. So many times Eddie had a long ball kicked to him one on one against a tall defender and wasn't able to bring it to ground - he also pulled in a few too but hard when you're giving away 30cm.

With Menzel down there at least the defender has to spoil every time though.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #29 –
I'll have a crack too, though I was pretty comprehensive in the other thread I started along these lines a few weeks ago.

B:     Everitt Jamison Simpson
HB:   Scotland Watson Tuohy
C:     Walker  Murphy  Thomas
HF:    Yarran  Henderson Robinson
F:      Casboult Waite Garlett
R:      Kreuzer Judd Gibbs

INT:   McLean Carrazzo White
SUB:  Armfield
EMG:  Curnow Lucas Docherty

Pushing for Selection from Round 1:

Warnock
Menzel
Rowe
McInnes
Bootsma
Duigan
Graham
Ellard
Bell
Wood
Cachia

Time Needed at the Northern Blues:

Buckley (should play later in the year)
Cripps (should play later in the year)
Giles (may play later in the year)
Temay (if he doesn't play seniors this year, he's gone)
Holman (may play later in the year)
Johnson (rookie)
Sheehan (rookie)
Byrne (rookie)
Reynolds (rookie)

I went with Jamo, Watson and Everitt as talls in defence as I think the addition of Everitt will take significant pressure off Watson and allow him to develop into a much better player.

Simpson, Scotland and Tuohy provide excellent run, fantastic discipline and, more importantly, quality ball delivery and decision making coming out of defence while still being able to shut down their opponents.

Walker and Thomas on the wings should prove an absolutely lethal combination. Both have star quality all over them, run both ways (at elite speeds), possess great tanks and are again fantastic users of the ball. Both are just as capable of assisting in defence as they are drifting forward to become legitimate scoring threats. It's a combination that would give nightmares to most opposing coaches.

Henderson playing as a permanent CHF moves us immediately into top 4 calculations, IMO, and he has the ability to be All-Australian at the position. Waite at Full Forward will give the opposition headaches for as long as he stays on the park, and Casboult playing as effectively the third tall forward/resting ruckman alternating with Kreuzer takes a lot of pressure off him and should let us really take advantage of his elite marking ability. If he learns to convert better, this combination could easily combine for 150+ goals between them.

Yarran and Garlett as small forwards is still a horrendous prospect for opposition teams, especially crumbing at the feet of three legitimate tall threats in the forward 50. Betts will not even be missed, IMO.

Robinson plays the role of defensive forward, which I think will be his ideal position going forward in his career.

Kreuzer is easily our best starting ruck, though if he's injured then either Warnock or Wood are very capable replacements. Judd is a no brainer in the middle, but Gibbs should now be free to play an entire season in the midfield which is exactly what we need. He was a clearance machine when he got an extended run in there last season, averaging more than any player in the AFL during that time span. He's a big body and excellent decision maker too, so the combination of Judd, Murphy and Gibbs at the first bounce basically means whoever the opposition tag, we still have a legitimate A-Grade gun or two who will get off the leash and hurt the opposition. It makes me a little rubbery just thinking about it.

McLean, Carrazzo and White on the interchange offer outstanding midfield rotations and strong swingman coverage for the talls at both ends of the ground. All three have the ability to impact games and play vital roles and the fact that they're starting on the bench shows just how much depth we're developing.

Armfield as the substitute offers the sort of explosiveness, pace, and aggression that will kill teams in the last quarter. It's a fantastic role for him to play as I don't think he has the skill set to claim a starting spot each and every week, but as an impact player is absolutely brilliant.

The emergencies could have come from any of the pushing for selection from round one list, but I felt that Lucas, Curnow and Docherty offered the most skill and versatility.

By my count we have 36 players who are bonafide AFL ready (as in they have already played significantly good games at AFL level to suggest they can step straight in to the line up without hurting us too much).

The 9 players still developing include all of this year's draft crop, however it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see quite a few of those boys getting game time throughout the year.

Our depth is obviously significantly improved and the balance of our list is significantly better.

I see no reason not to be very optimistic about our chances next season assuming we don't get absolutely pillaged by injury.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final