The next round has us playing the ancient enemy, the Meat Pies, at the MCG On a Sunday.
So if you're writing the script for this....
We get absolutely panned all week for yesterdays effort.
We go into this game switched on and (only)lose by about four goals.
Folks are content with that and a bit of pressure disappears.
Wouldn't mind seeing De Koning getting a run....maybe in place of Kerr who probably needs to go back and build on what he's picked up in the seniors.
Another pathetic effort like the first half against Freo simply won't fly against the old enemy.
Pressure will reach the highest ever level during Boltons tenure.
We don't like losing against Collingwood.
Kennedy in for Graham/Lamb/Take Your Pick will probably be the only change if the report I got from Punt Road today was accurate.
Some very lucky boys will keep their spots simply because we don't have anyone better.
It's getting hard to see us winning another game, Gold Coast is probably our best shot at it but I can't see it being Collingwood.
Wouldn't mind seeing De Koning getting a run....maybe in place of Kerr who probably needs to go back and build on what he's picked up in the seniors.
Yes I think he’s worth a try but I’d do something unconventional. Drop Graham, play Charlie through the mid field (give him some freedom to get into the game) and play DeKoning up forward. Need to persevere with Kerr. He moves like a forward and only lost confidence when he burnt Kruezer just before half time. Let’s get bold.
Yes I think he’s worth a try but I’d do something unconventional. Drop Graham, play Charlie through the mid field (give him some freedom to get into the game) and play DeKoning up forward. Need to persevere with Kerr. He moves like a forward and only lost confidence when he burnt Kruezer just before half time. Let’s get bold.
Yep.... the only reason I'd suggest Kerr goes back for a week or two is the confidence factor.
...and if it's explained to him that way I think he'd probably be fine.
I suspect he'd be a lot better at the VFL level after the senior experience and may score a bag or two.
Carlton skipper Marc Murphy says he just met with his manager and wants to stay at the club and lead the Blues out of trouble. @tennewsmelb
We're very lucky to have him.
Thus flipping John Walf the bird in the politest manner possible.
Got the young fella making his debut on the MCG at half time.
Hope we can put in a good/less bad showing for him...but I'm fearful we can't/won't - pies aren't a bad side.
Carlton skipper Marc Murphy says he just met with his manager and wants to stay at the club and lead the Blues out of trouble. @tennewsmelb
We're very lucky to have him.
Is this confirmed?
Is this confirmed?
Not anywhere official.
Kennedy in for Graham/Lamb/Take Your Pick will probably be the only change if the report I got from Punt Road today was accurate.
Some very lucky boys will keep their spots simply because we don't have anyone better.
It's getting hard to see us winning another game, Gold Coast is probably our best shot at it but I can't see it being Collingwood.
That is disappointing, but the seconds are just not producing. I'm not overly surprised that some of the guys coming back from injury may not have been match fit, but there isn't a lot else at the moment.
It might be different in another couple of weeks: It damned well better!
Carlton skipper Marc Murphy says he just met with his manager and wants to stay at the club and lead the Blues out of trouble. @tennewsmelb
We're very lucky to have him.
If true:
- never a doubt in my mind confirmed.
- he is true blue and committed to the plan.
- my estimate of him as a man and leader went up another notch.
Just be careful with this news regarding Murphy...lots of conflicting info floating around at present.
Just be careful with this news regarding Murphy...lots of conflicting info floating around at present.
Gibbs wasn't going until the day he did.
Just be careful with this news regarding Murphy...lots of conflicting info floating around at present.
Just say and write what you want....you'll be right half the time. ::)
Gibbs wasn't going until the day he did.
Gibbs wanted out the year before, it hardly came as a shock when he left.
Murphy is hanging out for a big offer he cant refuse and thats fair enough...it would be silly to think that a bloke like Paul Connors is going to advise
him to just re-sign with us without exploring the market.
If no offer comes then he will re-sign with us but I think any finals bound team offering decent money will get his signature.....he will always be a Carlton player but
that extra money/finals will make him leave the fold for a couple of years IMO....
When he says he is focused on the return not the future then you know he is open and happy to leave for the right offer IMO...
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-18/blues-captain-marc-murphy-focused-on-return-not-future
Murphy is hanging out for a big offer he cant refuse and thats fair enough...it would be silly to think that a bloke like Paul Connors is going to advise
him to just re-sign with us without exploring the market.
If no offer comes then he will re-sign with us but I think any finals bound team offering decent money will get his signature.....he will always be a Carlton player but
that extra money/finals will make him leave the fold for a couple of years IMO....
When he says he is focused on the return not the future then you know he is open and happy to leave for the right offer IMO...
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-18/blues-captain-marc-murphy-focused-on-return-not-future
Yep exactly what I thought....
IMO considering what we are going through on the field, regardless of our mixed opinions on whether we want him to stay or not, ideally we would all want our 'captain' to show support of the direction we are going and clearly state he is not jumping what looks at the moment to be a sinking ship.
BTW why no comment from Cripps and Charlie about all the media talk last week of them agreeing to terms...…..OMG imagine they don't resign at years end :-\
Just when you think things couldn't get worse.....
Just be careful with this news regarding Murphy...lots of conflicting info floating around at present.
Agree, I watched the interview where he was door stopped at PP and he said nothing to suggest he has decided to stay. He said:
- He wants to focus on getting back from injury in the next to weeks to lead the team
- He hasnt spoken to his manager yet.
- He spoke about the effort in the first half on Sat was not acceptable and not what they stand for.
Murphy is hanging out for a big offer he cant refuse and thats fair enough...it would be silly to think that a bloke like Paul Connors is going to advise
him to just re-sign with us without exploring the market.
If no offer comes then he will re-sign with us but I think any finals bound team offering decent money will get his signature.....he will always be a Carlton player but
that extra money/finals will make him leave the fold for a couple of years IMO....
When he says he is focused on the return not the future then you know he is open and happy to leave for the right offer IMO...
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-18/blues-captain-marc-murphy-focused-on-return-not-future
A player his age who has missed half a season due to injury isn't going to be in a strong bargaining position with any club. Unless he decides to chase a flag on much lower coin (and we get something worthwhile as compensation) he'll be wearing navy blue next year.
Here I am thinking Murphy looks closer to retiring than he does being traded. He's had a very ordinary five years and has injured every limb on his body.
Lost a yard too.
Here I am thinking Murphy looks closer to retiring than he does being traded. He's had a very ordinary five years and has injured every limb on his body.
Lost a yard too.
He won our b&f last year and was super for the first half of the year
Agree, I watched the interview where he was door stopped at PP and he said nothing to suggest he has decided to stay. He said:
- He wants to focus on getting back from injury in the next to weeks to lead the team
- He hasnt spoken to his manager yet.
- He spoke about the effort in the first half on Sat was not acceptable and not what they stand for.
Call me naive but I would have liked our CAPTAIN to come out with a strong endorsement of the clubs future and his commitment to it. Whilst I don’t hold it against him for exploring options the fact this is playing out in the media is very disappointing particularly after the weekend we’ve just had. A little window into his MO and further evidence as to how poor a leader he actually is.
Here I am thinking Murphy looks closer to retiring than he does being traded. He's had a very ordinary five years and has injured every limb on his body.
Lost a yard too.
Thry, really?
Marc Murphy Stats (http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=1620)
Whether you like him or not it's hard to call those stats for the last five years ordinary by any standard!
Call me naive but I would have liked our CAPTAIN to come out with a strong endorsement of the clubs future and his commitment to it. Whilst I don’t hold it against him for exploring options the fact this is playing out in the media is very disappointing particularly after the weekend we’ve just had. A little window into his MO and further evidence as to how poor a leader he actually is.
Pretty hard to disagree with this sadly.
Is it about him or about the Carlton Footy Club?
Only one change this week.
IN: Fair dinkum effort
OUT: His brother... Lazy $hit effort
Only one change this week.
IN: Fair dinkum effort
OUT: His brother... Lazy $hit effort
x2
Thry, really?
Marc Murphy Stats (http://finalsiren.com/PlayerStats.asp?PlayerID=1620)
Whether you like him or not it's hard to call those stats for the last five years ordinary by any standard!
If you remove 2017 as the outlier that it has become, would you be comfortable throwing big dollars at him as a free agent?
He's played five games with an injury that will dog him for the rest of his career. Look at the period prior to 2013, and tell me he's anywhere near providing that for next season.
If you remove 2017 as the outlier that it has become, would you be comfortable throwing big dollars at him as a free agent?
He's played five games with an injury that will dog him for the rest of his career. Look at the period prior to 2013, and tell me he's anywhere near providing that for next season.
I don't think a 5pt statistical shift is significant by any means, and I fully expect that if Murphy's mindset is correct modern sports medical technology is more than adequate to extend his career significantly. He could easily become our next Jarryd Waite given the right environment, why not still at Carlton!
Certainly I think if Daisy can return to some decent form from his ills, so can Murphy.
So for me it's not about ability or output, the differences there are barely worth a mention, they can even be written off as a change of role. The real debate about the likes of Murphy, Rowe and Simmo is more of a philosophical issue!
I don't think a 5pt statistical shift is significant by any means, and I fully expect that if Murphy's mindset is correct modern sports medical technology is more than adequate to extend his career significantly. He could easily become our next Jarryd Waite given the right environment, why not still at Carlton!
Certainly I think if Daisy can return to some decent form from his ills, so can Murphy.
So for me it's not about ability or output, the differences there are barely worth a mention, they can even be written off as a change of role. The real debate about the likes of Murphy, Rowe and Simmo is more of a philosophical issue!
Would Daisy's form in 2018 get him a spot in any other AFL (senior) team?
I think not.
Would Daisy's form in 2018 get him a spot in any other AFL (senior) team?
I think not.
It would certainly get him on a list somewhere not unlike Waite or Laidler.
I don't think a 5pt statistical shift is significant by any means, and I fully expect that if Murphy's mindset is correct modern sports medical technology is more than adequate to extend his career significantly. He could easily become our next Jarryd Waite given the right environment, why not still at Carlton!
Certainly I think if Daisy can return to some decent form from his ills, so can Murphy.
So for me it's not about ability or output, the differences there are barely worth a mention, they can even be written off as a change of role. The real debate about the likes of Murphy, Rowe and Simmo is more of a philosophical issue!
I'm not talking statistics I'm talking ability to get on the Park and play a high standard of footy.
He's a chump change player. He won't be hunted he'll be taken.
I've stuck up for Murphy more than most on here and it's time to accept that he's yesterday's hero.
We need to apply Pressure this week starting from our fwd line 90 tackles And is there any chance we get back and crowd there fwd line for a change
I'm not talking statistics I'm talking ability to get on the Park and play a high standard of footy.
He's a chump change player. He won't be hunted he'll be taken.
I've stuck up for Murphy more than most on here and it's time to accept that he's yesterday's hero.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T30
Click on Murphy and look at his graph.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T30
Click on Murphy and look at his graph.
Is that rating per game played or per season ?
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T30
Click on Murphy and look at his graph.
Exactly my point.
Combine that with his age and injury profile and you wouldn't actively hunt this player unless you're a club like north Melbourne looking for a bargain pick-up you can sell to your supporters as a big name player.
I'm worried he'll never consistently perform at a high level ever again.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T30
Click on Murphy and look at his graph.
Click on Riloi's graph HERE (http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T80)
Murphy is miles ahead! ;D
All the systems have a inherent bias to certain types of player or on-filed act, which is why choosing any one system is so heavily floored. The AFL system plummets if a player is injured, they effectively lose points for not playing.
Despite the AFL ratings, Murphy is the only Carlton player listed consistently in the AFL's top 100 no matter who reports them and what rating system they use, and nobody would think he's more influential than Cyril Rioli!
Your friend junk time Eddie has them comfortably covered by the same measure (http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T10)!
The systems are biased, but not as biased as the people that pick and choose which one they want to report!
Ok, it’s as I suspected, it’s a moving ranking for every game possible... Rioli has played 4 games for 39 disposals, but those disposals and thus rankings are spread over 12 matches, how many games has Murphy played this year ?
Obviously a better ranking is per match played.
Edit: Murphy 4 games 2018 and 104 disposals
Don't let any of this make you think I dislike Murphy. I think he would help us immensely.
My worry is that he isn't able to because of where he is at, and where we are at in terms of needing a bigger stronger type rather than a smaller classier type who cannot physically help spread the load. We need our kids to be helped by senior players and in Murphy's case it's more vice versa.
We all know the score. Losing Gibbs hurt us in ways that losing Murphy doesn't because Gibbs is more multi faceted and although Murphy's a better player when he's up and running.
Ok, it’s as I suspected, it’s a moving ranking for every game possible... Rioli has played 4 games for 39 disposals, but those disposals and thus rankings are spread over 12 matches, how many games has Murphy played this year ?
Obviously a better ranking is per match played.
Edit: Murphy 4 games 2018 and 104 disposals
Zero impact.
We need to stop obsessing over stats and look at impact n games and team mates.
He's our captain, highest paid player and supposedly best....
Zero impact.
We need to stop obsessing over stats and look at impact n games and team mates.
He's our captain, highest paid player and supposedly best....
If he makes everyone around him better then it's not always about what he does, but this is also a factor in what I'm alluding to. Free agents and recruits are all about star power. Murphy isn't that player anymore.
We need to apply Pressure this week starting from our fwd line 90 tackles And is there any chance we get back and crowd there fwd line for a change
Bring Pickett in for starters. MCG space, hard runner, can tackle up forward. Kennedy for Graham, Pickett for Lamb, De Koning for Kerridge (play Charlie in the mid field and De Koning up forward, Charlie can rest up forward)?
More grunt in the middle field, more pace in the forward line......get creative.
Is that rating per game played or per season ?
Last 40 games that he has played.
Last 40 games that he has played.
What meaning do you take out of it mbb?
Last 40 games that he has played.
No, I think LP is correct, it’s the past 40 games.
The graph shows a blip for each round...
Where is the consistency in assessing a player.
The call is for more pressure, tackling, intensity, correct?
Yet in the context of the Marc Murphy debate, his average tackle count is up the highest it's been since 2014.
So is there anything Murphy can do for a win with some posters, opposition clubs must be laughing at us!
I think the fan malaise with Murphy is born out of frustration about the club in general, they think some messiah captain and lift it up and drag it over the line. Well on an individual level it hasn't worked with Cripps, and Cripps is about as messiah as you can get in a AFL individual, but reality is it won't work for anybody because it is a fantasy that only exists in the mind of fans!
Murphy is as close to pure silk as we have, and he's been forced into a utilitarian role due to the club's lack of depth. We've done this with so many players this season it's becoming a parody, implemented we are told because it's good for their development. But I don't see it, for me it's like using a Japanese sushi filleting knife to hack beef soup bones!
With the dearth of quality mature players in our squad can we really afford to lose another in Murphy just atm? I don't think so. Even if he hands over the captaincy next year he would remain a valuable player for us while our young talent is still developing.
No, I think LP is correct, it’s the past 40 games.
The graph shows a blip for each round...
http://m.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/ratings-explained
What meaning do you take out of it mbb?
That he has been on the decline since 2012. His 30 touches today aren't the same as they were then. He used to bust games open like Cotchin, Martin, Fyfe etc.
Now he's a B grader, that's ok but it just means his salary gets halved.
The last 40 games must fall in a 24 month window of eligible games, if they miss games in that window period their rating drops. It's why Rioli and Murphy's rating have both diminished significantly. The rating keeps dropping with every game they miss!
A player's rating is determined by aggregating his points tally based on a rolling window of the previous two seasons. For example, after round six of the 2014 season, a player's rating will be based on matches from round seven of the 2012 season onwards. However, only a player's most recent 40 matches are used in the calculation of his rating. This creates a buffer for players missing matches through injury, suspension, omission or by not being involved in finals. A player's most recent 30 matches are given greater weight in determining his rating. Matches 31 through 40 are progressively reduced in weighting, from 100 per cent down to five per cent for the earliest game in the window.
It's consistent with what I have told you.
Further if the injuries occur within the 30 most recent matches it will have an even bigger effect as the last 30 eligible rounds are loaded!
It's consistent with what I have told you.
Further if the injuries occur within the 30 most recent matches it will have an even bigger effect as the last 30 eligible rounds are loaded!
Do you think the AFL have a big conspiracy to make Marc Murphy look worse than he actually is?
Do you think the AFL have a big conspiracy to make Marc Murphy look worse than he actually is?
What about Cyril, are you ignoring those stats?
Murphy stats are explained in the very same way that Cyril's stats are explained, they've both missed games which in the AFL ratings system has a huge impact.
Go back and look at Murphy's pure stats, 2017 is the equal best of any year, then look at the AFL chart you want to believe. There is a discontinuity because from pure stats 2011 to 2014 Murphy averaged 99pts, and between 2014 and 2017 he averaged 96pts, which is a 3% drop. But the same period on the AFL site is a 23% change!
The difference is explained by missed games and loadings, it's a problem with windowed analysis because it encompasses feedback as part of the result. The left side peaks are not equal to the right side peaks, because of the feedback, even though Murphy's 2017 statistically equals his 2011.
Rioli has had a poor 2 years by his standards and the ratings reflect that.
Rioli has had a poor 2 years by his standards and the ratings reflect that.
Murphy's 2017 was equal of any in his career, better than any other year listed on that graph, but the graph does not reflect that because of the way the figures are calculated! ;)
I don't care what the stats say, we are desperately short of classy experienced players, we need him to stay
I think it's time for him to handover the captaincy solely for the "generational change" reason.
But I want him to stay.
Does anyone really think we're not missing him at the moment
I think it's time for him to handover the captaincy solely for the "generational change" reason.
But I want him to stay.
Does anyone really think we're not missing him at the moment
I reckon there'd be a few on here who would think that.
When clubs are struggling it's common for supporters to pot the best players, it's like having a blue with the missus and taking it out on the dog.
When clubs are struggling it's common for supporters to pot the best players, it's like having a blue with the missus and taking it out on the dog.
Yes, they're all no good from the best players down...lol.
Handling frustration isn't supporter's strongest point no matter the club.
I think it's time for him to handover the captaincy solely for the "generational change" reason.
But I want him to stay.
Does anyone really think we're not missing him at the moment
This.
We are definitely missing him.
He is a blue through and through. He looks the type to me, who would get more from being a one club player than chasing a tilt.
I do think he needs to give up the captaincy. If Docherty were available, I'd want him to do it now, but I suspect he will hold on to it until the end of the year so a proper decision can be made about our next captain.
We are definitely missing him, would love to somehow get two more like him but a bit bigger!
I think it's time for him to handover the captaincy solely for the "generational change" reason.
But I want him to stay.
Does anyone really think we're not missing him at the moment
Nope. We're missing him alright. Along with his mate Gibbs we lack class in spades in the middle.
I'd like to see him stay. If he chose greener pastures though, he'd have my blessings.
Nope. We're missing him alright. Along with his mate Gibbs we lack class in spades in the middle.
I'd like to see him stay. If he chose greener pastures though, he'd have my blessings.
We have to do whatever we can to make him stay, the bleeding of talent needs to stop. Could not stand seeing him go and replacing him with another Mullet/O'Shea combo, surely we have learnt you just don't replace class!
I'm confident that Murphy will stay, he's got plenty to give and even if he doesn't see our next flag as a player he can play a big part in setting it up.
I think that he should remain as Captain too.
I'm confident that Murphy will stay, he's got plenty to give and even if he doesn't see our next flag as a player he can play a big part in setting it up.
I think that he should remain as Captain too.
No reason why he shouldn't remain as captain unless he no longer wants it, I hope he stay on and gets the chance to prove all the nay sayers wrong.
I think Murphy will stay for one reason...no other club will pay the big dollars he will want to leave......
I have been very tolerant of this young side and BB. But if I see anything less than a feral, 4 quarter effort from the 22 wearing the navy blue jumper this week, "I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger".
If Murphy is on the park, Carlton are a better team.
We do not want to be missing another senior player next year, however I’m presuming Simpson and Thomas will go.
I think Murphy will stay for one reason...no other club will pay the big dollars he will want to leave......
A 31 year old player coming off a season spent injured. He'll be lucky to even get medium dollars - with us.
I think Murphy will stay for one reason...no other club will pay the big dollars he will want to leave......
Let's be frank. It's been a good few years since the time when Murphy's 30 odd possessions hurt an opposition.
He'll stay for the reason you espouse EB.
The Hawks might offer him 300k a year, that's about it.
Straight swap for our old Robbo at Brisvegas? I'd do that...maybe they could throw in some steak knives....
I think Murphy will stay for one reason...no other club will pay the big dollars he will want to leave......
What a great reason to keep someone.
If that is the case we should pay him market value and use the extra money on a 23-25 year old.
We need tough uncompromising footballers, not players looking to arrange their retirements
I have been very tolerant of this young side and BB. But if I see anything less than a feral, 4 quarter effort from the 22 wearing the navy blue jumper this week, "I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger".
;D ;D ;D
It is imperative that Murph stay, from a PR point of view if nothing else.
If he goes elsewhere it tells us that he doesn’t believe in what’s happening at the club.
If Murphy is on the park, Carlton are a better team.
We do not want to be missing another senior player next year, however I’m presuming Simpson and Thomas will go.
This is true.
However I think Simpson and Thomas are way more chance to continue than Murphy is at this stage.
The main thing they have over Murphy is the ability to get on the park and that is saying something particularly as Thomas is the broken man, and Simpson is a 300 game player in his umpteenth year of footy. He might be spraying it a little bit, but he is as relevant and good today as he has been in the past and isnt the lone ranger with his ability to hit targets.
I believe all 3 can and should play on next year. I'm all for going younger, but I think the club needs to start setting some standards regarding acceptibility and you cut proffesional players who are competitive at this level to give guys who arent as committed to their careers at your own peril IMHO.
.
Creative ?? Huh what's that ? Are Coaches allowed to do that ?
Two guys I'd like to see have a run later in the year are De Konning and Schmacher. They are looking two very nice pick ups, as least on exposed VFL form. Just a run later in the year to get the feel of what is required at AFL level and carry that into the pre-season. De Konning seems to have most things, just needs more size.
Murphy's 2017 was equal of any in his career, better than any other year listed on that graph, but the graph does not reflect that because of the way the figures are calculated! ;)
Coaches votes him best player in the league in 2011, 2nd was reigning brownlow medalist Chris Judd.
Fair to say that was his best year ever....and by some fair distance.
Coaches votes him best player in the league in 2011, 2nd was reigning brownlow medalist Chris Judd.
Fair to say that was his best year ever....and by some fair distance.
I was talking statistically, and the graph only goes back to 2014.
I have been very tolerant of this young side and BB. But if I see anything less than a feral, 4 quarter effort from the 22 wearing the navy blue jumper this week, "I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger".
"I'll spew"
Plough
Outs - Kerridge (injured)
Ins - Polson, Garlett, Mullet (groan), Phillips and Kennedy!
CARLTON'S EXTENDED SQUAD
Backs 20. Lachie Plowman 14. Liam Jones 6. Kade Simpson
Half-backs 18. Aaron Mullett 23. Jacob Weitering 39. Dale Thomas
Centreline 4. Lochie O'Brien 9. Patrick Cripps (C) 25. Zac Fisher
Half-forwards 13. Jed Lamb 30. Charlie Curnow 35. Ed Curnow
Forwards 29. Cameron Polson 46. Matthew Wright 5. Sam Petrevski-Seton
Followers 8. Matthew Kreuzer 1. Jack Silvagni 2. Paddy Dow
Extended interchange 16. Darcy Lang 41. Levi Casboult 32. Nick Graham
36. Pat Kerr 17. Sam Rowe 21. Jarrod Garlett
34. Andrew Phillips 7. Matthew Kennedy
In: Polson, Mullett, Kennedy, Garlett, Phillips
Out: Kerridge (groin)
I'm thinking we might be going smaller this week.
From the bench 3 smaller types, Lang, Garlett and Kennedy, plus one of Casboult or Kerr I reckon will be picked. Casboult might still be getting fitness, so may or may not play NB's, and Kerr has been ok in the 3 games for a 19yo kid.
I'm thinking we might be going smaller this week.
From the bench 3 smaller types, Lang, Garlett and Kennedy, plus one of Casboult or Kerr I reckon will be picked. Casboult might still be getting fitness, so may or may not play NB's, and Kerr has been ok in the 3 games for a 19yo kid.
Reckon Kerr might pay for the Kruezer pass.....Grundy smashed us last time we played them, reckon Philips might play too.
Think you are right on the smalls...Collingwood has one of the best and deepest midfields going around, we just couldnt contain all of them especially Sidebottom who carved up Ed like a Sunday roast.
Lang and Kennedy need to deliver this week and give Cripps support......
CARLTON
B: Lachie Plowman, Liam Jones, Kade Simpson
HB: Aaron Mullett, Jacob Weitering, Dale Thomas
C: Lochie O'Brien, Patrick Cripps, Zac Fisher
HF: Jed Lamb, Charlie Curnow, Ed Curnow
F: Cameron Polson, Matthew Wright, Sam Petrevski-Seton
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Jack Silvagni, Paddy Dow
Int: Darcy Lang, Levi Casboult, Nick Graham, Pat Kerr, Sam Rowe, Jarrod Garlett, Andrew Phillips, Matthew Kennedy (Four to be omitted)
IN: Aaron Mullett, Cameron Polson, Jarrod Garlett, Andrew Phillips, Matthew Kennedy
OUT: Sam Kerridge (Injured)
COLLINGWOOD
B: Brayden Maynard, Lynden Dunn, Jack Crisp
HB: Jeremy Howe, Matthew Scharenberg, Tom Langdon
C: Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Tom Phillips
HF: Jordan De Goey, Brody Mihocek, Will Hoskin-Elliott
F: Josh Thomas, Mason Cox, Jaidyn Stephenson
R: Brodie Grundy, Taylor Adams, Adam Treloar
Int: Flynn Appleby, Callum Brown, Ben Crocker, Josh Daicos, Levi Greenwood, Chris Mayne, Adam Oxley, Brayden Sier (Four to be omitted)
IN: Flynn Appleby, Callum Brown, Ben Crocker, Adam Oxley, Brayden Sier
OUT: Daniel Wells (Injured)
Last time Grundy hurt us even though Kreuzer did quite well around the ground. We really need a 2nd ruck option. Where we get it or not, is another question.
It is likely that a tall forward might miss out, Casboult did nothing last week, but will be better for the run. Kerr needs to find his confidence in his kicking again. And all it is, is confidence. He'll be fine when he believes!
Last time we also didn't respect Sidebottom enough: we need to squash him. It doesn't look likely, but we must.
I'm surprised that Mullet is named in the 18.
Reckon Kerr might pay for the Kruezer pass.....Grundy smashed us last time we played them, reckon Philips might play too.
Think you are right on the smalls...Collingwood has one of the best and deepest midfields going around, we just couldnt contain all of them especially Sidebottom who carved up Ed like a Sunday roast.
Lang and Kennedy need to deliver this week and give Cripps support......
Kreuzer had a good night last time against Collingwood. Possessions pretty even, Kreuzer got 23, similar marks, hitouts overall the same, we won the clearances, and Kreuzer kicked a goal. Don't need Phillips.
Phillips Casboult Kreuzer and Kerr in the same team makes me think that Kreuzer is under an injury cloud.
After last week's utterly putrid effort Lamb surely can't get another gig?!?
We need to go smaller this week, horses for courses selections.
Kerridge....injured or dropped, don't care, was putrid and had to pony up for that performance.
I'm surprised that Mullet is named in the 18.
You're stunned, I assume.
Phillips Casboult Kreuzer and Kerr in the same team makes me think that Kreuzer is under an injury cloud.
Rowe named in the vfl too...
Amazed actually. Papers stamped, not up to it.
Casboult might be knocking the dew off as well if Phillips plays. Need somebody for Mason Cox as well, but not too much height.
You're stunned, I assume.
I'll pay that!
If I was coach:
Lang Graham Rowe to join Kerridge out
Polson and Mullett have been named in the side (dunno if id play the latter). Kennedy and Garlett in
Garlett and Mullet on notice though, both need to out their bodies on the line more ore they can fark orf.
Kerr gets a reprieve as he is young and needs games under his belt.
Reckon Kerr might pay for the Kruezer pass
Unfortunately Kerr paid for it, in his own mind for the rest of the match!! Needs to forget about it and work off his instincts. He’s a footballers, footballer! He will be the goods.
Unfortunately Kerr paid for it, in his own mind for the rest of the match!! Needs to forget about it and work off his instincts. He’s a footballers, footballer! He will be the goods.
x2 just needs game in the bank and will get better.
Kreuzer had a good night last time against Collingwood. Possessions pretty even, Kreuzer got 23, similar marks, hitouts overall the same, we won the clearances, and Kreuzer kicked a goal. Don't need Phillips.
I thought Grundy and Sidebottom were BOG last time, their mids slaughtered us on mass.....one of our main problems is we let the opposition star players get too much of the ball every week...Grundy's possies and Sidebottoms possies are going to hurt more than Kruezer's or Eds for example......Cripps also got taken out of the game by Pendlebury/Crisp at stoppages and Cripps didnt bother picking them up the other way either...its the same story every week.
Clearances are subjective IMO...you only win a clearance IMO if they are any good...Ed winning a clearance and sending it straight to a opposition player isnt a clearance IMO....its a turnover...
You're stunned, I assume.
????
Jokes aside though after a performance like last week and these players are the best available in the VFL?
Crikey.
Rowe named in the vfl too...
Anyone/everyone that is named on an extended interchange bench is also named for the VFL.
Happens every week.
I thought Grundy and Sidebottom were BOG last time, their mids slaughtered us on mass.....one of our main problems is we let the opposition star players get too much of the ball every week...Grundy's possies and Sidebottoms possies are going to hurt more than Kruezer's or Eds for example......Cripps also got taken out of the game by Pendlebury/Crisp at stoppages and Cripps didnt bother picking them up the other way either...its the same story every week.
Clearances are subjective IMO...you only win a clearance IMO if they are any good...Ed winning a clearance and sending it straight to a opposition player isnt a clearance IMO....its a turnover...
That happens after the contest though. Disposal is for us to work on. Win the clearances and the other ruck isn't dominate, which is what we are talking about here. We don't need the 2nd ruckman, never works and slows us up. Looks a chance we might finally go a bit smaller this week. Hopefully we do.
Yes, we got slaughtered in 30 min of football. Somehow stayed within 24pts. Remember Kreuzer doing pretty well though. Remember Grundy doing very well though and getting Coaches votes.
????
Jokes aside though after a performance like last week and these players are the best available in the VFL?
Crikey.
Yes. When you have 4 teams all occupying the lower rungs on the ladder, the door is feeling very lonely and unloved, because nobody's knocking.
Yes. When you have 4 teams all occupying the lower rungs on the ladder, the door is feeling very lonely and unloved, because nobody's knocking.
Kennedy might get a game at a couple of battling clubs but none of the other inclusions would on their exposed form.
We really are struggling, it's impossible to judge Bolton when this is what he's got to work with.
Edit: The way things are going West Coast might kick a lower score tonight than we did last week, 1.8 half way through the third quarter.
CARLTON
B: Lachie Plowman, Liam Jones, Kade Simpson
HB: Aaron Mullett, Jacob Weitering, Dale Thomas
C: Lochie O'Brien, Patrick Cripps, Zac Fisher
HF: Jed Lamb, Charlie Curnow, Ed Curnow
F: Cameron Polson, Matthew Wright, Sam Petrevski-Seton
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Jack Silvagni, Paddy Dow
Int: Darcy Lang, Levi Casboult, Nick Graham, Pat Kerr, Sam Rowe, Jarrod Garlett, Andrew Phillips, Matthew Kennedy (Four to be omitted)
Last time Grundy hurt us even though Kreuzer did quite well around the ground. We really need a 2nd ruck option. Where we get it or not, is another question.
It is likely that a tall forward might miss out, Casboult did nothing last week, but will be better for the run. Kerr needs to find his confidence in his kicking again. And all it is, is confidence. He'll be fine when he believes!
Last time we also didn't respect Sidebottom enough: we need to squash him. It doesn't look likely, but we must.
Too many lightweights in the midfield - Phillips = ruck, Kreuzer = ruck rover, C Curnow to spend some time in the midfield as well.
Interesting outlook on last week's game.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-players-overcoached-not-lacking-effort-v-fremantle/news-story/0daf9d045880cbe460a79bbe9f0e2a1a
Interesting outlook on last week's game.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-players-overcoached-not-lacking-effort-v-fremantle/news-story/0daf9d045880cbe460a79bbe9f0e2a1a
Montagna would probably make a good assistant coach....he may have burnt his prospects for a Carlton job in the short term though. ;)
He'll probably have a pretty successful media career anyway. :D
Montagna would probably make a good assistant coach....he may have burnt his prospects for a Carlton job in the short term though. ;)
A dumber kent you will not meet.
A dumber kent you will not meet.
Personal experience?
Interesting outlook on last week's game.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carlton-players-overcoached-not-lacking-effort-v-fremantle/news-story/0daf9d045880cbe460a79bbe9f0e2a1a
I reckon he might be on to something. Young rookie coach feels as though he has to prove himself, so tries too hard to show he's the man for the job by coaching excessively. I'm sure it's happened before. Maybe let the players play on instinct more.
I reckon he might be on to something. Young rookie coach feels as though he has to prove himself, so tries too hard to show he's the man for the job by coaching excessively. I'm sure it's happened before. Maybe let the players play on instinct more.
That we push forward and leave our defense outnumbered? :o
Personal experience?
Not me, a mate.
In the article, He is suggesting that the players are executing BBs plan perfectly and that its flawed. I know whars flawed and it aint BBs plan.
Not me, a mate.
In the article, He is suggesting that the players are executing BBs plan perfectly and that its flawed. I know whars flawed and it aint BBs plan.
I doubt there is any execution of a plan, I doubt there is any plan at all!
To quote from Apocalypse Now;
Cpt Benjamin L. Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Col Walter E. Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?
Cpt Benjamin L. Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.
BB is a soft target for many in the AFL, especially for some past players.
I doubt there is any execution of a plan, I doubt there is any plan at all!
To quote from Apocalypse Now;
Captain Benjamin L. Willard: They told me that you had gone totally insane, and that your methods were unsound.
Colonel Walter E. Kurtz: Are my methods unsound?
Captain Benjamin L. Willard: I don't see any method at all, sir.
"Are you an Assassin" LP. :D
@LP Isn't Montagna's point similar to one you and deags were making earlier in the year
I wonder if he really is, or if part of it is that when we've Docherty had down back, there is more organisation, and someone to cover Jones's man when he goes attacking the ball.
They highlighted one particular moment yesterday on the telecast where Lynch was left in the pocket on his Pat Malone. Initially they were grilling Jones for leaving him, but when they camera angle was changed, he went forward to attack as there were 2 uncovered blokes forward, and no one dropped back onto Lynch when he did so.
Finally someone else noticing the truth about what is happening all over the ground!
We've got players who have lost the balance between attack and defence, Paul Roos highlighted it, Bolton admitted it and it hasn't yet been corrected.
Smarter kids like Weitering and SoJ do not have the experience to deal with this situation, they have the footy smarts and see what is happening and drop their heads because they get disheartened. Older heads like Daisy, Ed. Curnow, Plowman and Murphy keep plugging away, but fans pot them when with the football they try some miracle disposal to make up for all their out of position team-mates.
The real bad eggs are the guys who are doing the turnovers without being under pressure, the guys who are pushing forward like lunatics then efficiently handing the ball back to the opposition from a clear unpressurised disposal, then burning team-mates by pointing fingers at the blokes around them who are left to clean up the mess outnumbered and out of position exactly as Deag described.
I'm not expecting every player to be 100% efficient, but if you roll the dice you have to press equally hard both ways and only a handful of our list do it. Blokes like Daisy, Murphy and Ed.Curnow work the hardest workers, they are not the ones you want to be highlighting. You need to start looking at the names that seem to be missing from the chain of play, not the ones who are deeply involved in it!
Another problem we have, we have too many players who let opponents jog past without any pressure, when you contest with someone win or lose that opponent shouldn't be free to join the next contest unhindered. If you can't get to the next contest take them out with you, harass them at every opportunity and hinder their progress!
We've way too many of those finger pointers, who run like cut snakes forward and then jog backwards after missing a target, some of them are quite senior and it's not the ones necessarily getting all the supporter attention. A couple of them keep getting pats on the back for "good games", off the back of when they dramatically get back and help in only 1 or 2 out of every 5 cases, the fans ignore the times they decide not to help!
Its not an either situation.
The plan can be fine until its nullified.
Likewise, the plan can be cactus, but if left unchecked might simply succeed because no one knows how to stop chaos.
What we are simply seeing is too many people pulling in too many different directions at the same time. We play football like a team that barely knows itself, and part of that is missing personnell (Docherty, Murphy etc) and part of it, is that we changed plan mid stream (say 4 rounds in) and part of it is that some players don't know the plan all that well and therefore execute it with different rates of success, and finally, we may have multiple plans for multiple situations in games of football. If you are calling on the plan that states play tempo football whilst you have the momentum, you result in cutting your own momentum. If you call on the plan that states play fast open football when the game is not on your terms, then you result in getting burnt the second you fail. Ultimately, there is no such thing as a bad plan, and there is no such thing as a bad player at the proffesional level, and its all about degrees. The better players and teams, execute the more suitable plan for the more suitable situation more frequently than teams that don't, and this is where we are currently falling over, and largely due to far too much change in an otherwise inexperienced overall outfit.
Makes sense??
I hope so. There are lots of situational changes we are not getting right which is why we are not winning games we should, and why we are getting blown away in situations we really shouldnt. In among all of that, we are doing better against some teams where we didnt think it was possible, because the opposition have taken it for granted that their way will simply beat us, and when it doesnt they are changing it up mid stream to get the win.
"Are you an Assassin" LP. :D
@LP Isn't Montagna's point similar to one you and deags were making earlier in the year
I read it as Montagna blaming the coaches(i.e. BB), in that he thinks it's part of or caused by a confusing game plan which the players are not able to deal with it. Too many instructions and over-coaching.
I think it's just a mix of bad play, poor decision making, poor on-field communications, and a few blokes who seem to be dead set racehorses but in one direction only! At the ground Lods, you see us tear ar5e forward as a group, then jog back as a wave! It's soul destroying, and some of the biggest offenders are being promoted as future leaders!
Back earlier in the season a lot of fans were potting Jones and Weitering, because on the TV you get a narrow view often showing them confused and seemingly uncommitted. But the wide shot often shows them trapped between two or three forwards after Simmo or Marchbank has charged off up the field and turned it over again!
If I gave any other impression I apologise, it wasn't intentional!
I read it as Montagna blaming the coaches(i.e. BB), in that he thinks it's part of or caused by a confusing game plan which the players are not able to deal with it. Too many instructions and over-coaching.
I think it's just a mix of bad play, poor decision making, poor on-field communications, and a few blokes who seem to be dead set racehorses but in one direction only! At the ground Lods, you see us tear ar5e forward as a group, then jog back as a wave! It's soul destroying, and some of the biggest offenders are being promoted as future leaders!
Back earlier in the season a lot of fans were potting Jones and Weitering, because on the TV you get a narrow view often showing them confused and seemingly uncommitted. But the wide shot often shows them trapped between two or three forwards after Simmo or Marchbank has charged off up the field and turned it over again!
If I gave any other impression I apologise, it wasn't intentional!
The 'Assassin' bit was just another "Apocalypse Now" reference ;D
Its not an either situation.
The plan can be fine until its nullified.
Likewise, the plan can be cactus, but if left unchecked might simply succeed because no one knows how to stop chaos.
What we are simply seeing is too many people pulling in too many different directions at the same time. We play football like a team that barely knows itself, and part of that is missing personnell (Docherty, Murphy etc) and part of it, is that we changed plan mid stream (say 4 rounds in) and part of it is that some players don't know the plan all that well and therefore execute it with different rates of success, and finally, we may have multiple plans for multiple situations in games of football. If you are calling on the plan that states play tempo football whilst you have the momentum, you result in cutting your own momentum. If you call on the plan that states play fast open football when the game is not on your terms, then you result in getting burnt the second you fail. Ultimately, there is no such thing as a bad plan, and there is no such thing as a bad player at the proffesional level, and its all about degrees. The better players and teams, execute the more suitable plan for the more suitable situation more frequently than teams that don't, and this is where we are currently falling over, and largely due to far too much change in an otherwise inexperienced overall outfit.
Makes sense??
I hope so. There are lots of situational changes we are not getting right which is why we are not winning games we should, and why we are getting blown away in situations we really shouldnt. In among all of that, we are doing better against some teams where we didnt think it was possible, because the opposition have taken it for granted that their way will simply beat us, and when it doesnt they are changing it up mid stream to get the win.
It makes a lot of sense.
I'm just wondering though...
One of the problems we've had since the early 2000s is that successive coaches have tried to introduce varying styles of playing (Pagan, Malthouse,)
In both cases the criticism was that they were trying to "get the players to play to a certain style rather than design a plan to suit the players strengths."
Ratten, I'm not so sure of (no doubt someone will tell me if I'm wrong ;) .....but I suspect that his time was more about playing to the lists limitations....and strengths....(without as some used to suggest a Plan B. :D)
Now it's understandable that what is happening under Bolton is that players are learning new patterns and structures...varying ones indeed.
But for whatever reason, and injury may play a big part, they aren't able to execute.
So are we once again persisting with a set of plans, as opposed to modifying, the plans to suit the abilities of the team at the time.
Long term we may want to play a certain way but that will rely on the confidence of the players to play that way....that confidence must get a battering each time we get a really poor result.
Having said all that...I'm not sure there is a way to change a game plan/plans in an incremental fashion.... that also minimises damage.
That's a bit above my level.
Patrick Keane
@AFL_PKeane
16s16 seconds ago
Carlton v Collingwood.
S Rowe into named 18 for Polson.
Interchange: Garlett, Casboult, Polson, Kennedy.
Emergencies: Graham, Lang, Phillips, O’Shea.
O’Shea replaces Kerr (injured) as an emergency.
n: Kennedy, Mullett, Polson, Garlett
Out: Graham (omitted), Lang (omitted), Kerridge (groin), Kerr (hip)
Patrick Keane
@AFL_PKeane
16s16 seconds ago
Carlton v Collingwood.
S Rowe into named 18 for Polson.
Interchange: Garlett, Casboult, Polson, Kennedy.
Emergencies: Graham, Lang, Phillips, O’Shea.
O’Shea replaces Kerr (injured) as an emergency.
n: Kennedy, Mullett, Polson, Garlett
Out: Graham (omitted), Lang (omitted), Kerridge (groin), Kerr (hip)
Wonder if there was some kind of doubt re. Rowe's fitness/availability?
Lang is a bust, he is looking like another Smedts.
Great players, when they do not have to be "The Man!" Put them next to Dangerfield, Selwood, Enright, Corey, Johnston, etc., etc., and they look like silk!
It's a bad result for someone at our club given that we have been pursuing Lang as a trade target for two seasons! I hope we never trade with Geelong again, it's going to take a decade just to get over the recent dealings!
Lang has to start getting Murphy or Simmo type numbers just to get back to even!
Wonder if there was some kind of doubt re. Rowe's fitness/availability?
More likely weather, but it seems injuries have determined our direction regardless!
Lang is a bust, he is looking like another Smedts.
Great players, when they do not have to be "The Man!" Put them next to Dangerfield, Selwood, Enright, Corey, Johnston, etc., etc., and they look like silk!
It's a bad result for someone at our club given that we have been pursuing Lang as a trade target for two seasons! I hope we never trade with Geelong again, it's going to take a decade just to get over the recent dealings!
Lang has to start getting Murphy or Simmo type numbers just to get back to even!
More likely weather, but it seems injuries have determined our direction regardless!
Lang has missed alot of football this year though.
CARLTON'S ROUND 14 LINE-UP:
B: Lachie Plowman - Liam Jones - Kade Simpson
HB: Aaron Mullett - Jacob Weitering - Sam Rowe
C: Lochie O'Brien - Patrick Cripps (C) - Ed Curnow
HF: Jed Lamb - Charlie Curnow - Zac Fisher
F: Jack Silvagni - Matthew Wright - Sam Petrevski-Seton
F: Matthew Kreuzer - Dale Thomas - Paddy Dow
I: Jarrod Garlett - Levi Casboult - Matthew Kennedy - Cameron Polson
Emergencies: Cameron O'Shea - Darcy Lang - Andrew Phillips - Nick Graham
In: Kennedy, Mullett, Polson, Garlett
Out: Graham (omitted), Lang (omitted), Kerridge (groin), Kerr (hip)
Milestone: Weitering - 50 AFL games
Lang has missed alot of football this year though.
True, but I'm not talking about fitness, it's his lack of aggression at the contest. He looks like a Grigg type and that is not what we need! Unless he is still carrying an injury which would be disappointing to say the least.
Even if you have not been playing, when you get a run you need to exhibit some desire to get hold of the footy, rather than just receive it bruise free!
Anyway, I honestly hope I am wrong, my assessment of him is not something I take great joy in writing!
One thing about the team. Poor Polson, he was on a form high for weeks on end at NBs even as they got smashed. Probably deserved a spot well ahead of SoJ in my opinion. Now the last couple of weeks he's been average at best and they given him a run! It's like giving a bloke that last sip of water just before he dies of thirst!
Weitering 50 games?
When is he going to turn it on like a No.1 pick?
Maybe we got another Jack Watts?
But then again Murphy, Gibbs and Kroozer have not put in a match winning, match turning, match dominating performance yet?
I would like our No.1's to take the game by the scruff of the neck and demand the ball, hunt the ball and stand up when needed. But that is just me ::)
I thought that we were too easily brushed aside by stronger Freo bodies last week (in the first half particularly) and I guess that’s what happens when you rely on blokes like Dow, O’Brien, Samo and Fisher to do the heavy lifting. I’m not sure that our ins have addressed that.
I’m not writing Lang off yet. I suspect that he will provide more of what we need after a full pre-season.
True, but I'm not talking about fitness, it's his lack of aggression at the contest. He looks like a Grigg type and that is not what we need! Unless he is still carrying an injury which would be disappointing to say the least.
Even if you have not been playing, when you get a run you need to exhibit some desire to get hold of the footy, rather than just receive it bruise free!
Anyway, I honestly hope I am wrong, my assessment of him is not something I take great joy in writing!
One thing about the team. Poor Polson, he was on a form high for weeks on end at NBs even as they got smashed. Probably deserved a spot well ahead of SoJ in my opinion. Now the last couple of weeks he's been average at best and they given him a run! It's like giving a bloke that last sip of water just before he dies of thirst!
Sometimes that can be mistaken for confidence, which can be down when fitness isn't there.
Weitering 50 games?
When is he going to turn it on like a No.1 pick?
Maybe we got another Jack Watts?
But then again Murphy, Gibbs and Kroozer have not put in a match winning, match turning, match dominating performance yet?
I would like our No.1's to take the game by the scruff of the neck and demand the ball, hunt the ball and stand up when needed. But that is just me ::)
If Weitering was compared to others like him, an apples for apples comparison of their first 50 games, I wonder what it looks like!
I'm not sure No.1 Draft picks are any more likely to be instant hits than any other draft pick, but long term they seem to be statistically better.
Sometimes a coach can be close but needs the right support around him. We can see this with Hardwick/Caracella, and Malthouse/Buckley. Bolton's tactics may or may not be sound, but I find it hard to believe that players who have been in the system for many years could play so badly so regularly. I'm not suggesting he's a good or bad coach, but something looks like it's being lost in translation. A small market correction may be in order.
Montagna would know a thing or two about defensive structures and actions, having played under Lyon.
CARLTON'S ROUND 14 LINE-UP:
B: Lachie Plowman - Liam Jones - Kade Simpson
HB: Aaron Mullett - Jacob Weitering - Sam Rowe
C: Lochie O'Brien - Patrick Cripps (C) - Ed Curnow
HF: Jed Lamb - Charlie Curnow - Zac Fisher
F: Jack Silvagni - Matthew Wright - Sam Petrevski-Seton
F: Matthew Kreuzer - Dale Thomas - Paddy Dow
I: Jarrod Garlett - Levi Casboult - Matthew Kennedy - Cameron Polson
Emergencies: Cameron O'Shea - Darcy Lang - Andrew Phillips - Nick Graham
In: Kennedy, Mullett, Polson, Garlett
Out: Graham (omitted), Lang (omitted), Kerridge (groin), Kerr (hip)
Milestone: Weitering - 50 AFL games
I nearly got the selections right. Rowe survives, Kerr (hip).
I reckon he might be on to something. Young rookie coach feels as though he has to prove himself, so tries too hard to show he's the man for the job by coaching excessively. I'm sure it's happened before. Maybe let the players play on instinct more.
If Bolton goes with that zoning, offensive game plan again we should all go down and kick him hard where the sun doesn't shine. Our players become totally lost and drop their bundle completely.
Sometimes a coach can be close but needs the right support around him. We can see this with Hardwick/Caracella, and Malthouse/Buckley. Bolton's tactics may or may not be sound, but I find it hard to believe that players who have been in the system for many years could play so badly so regularly. I'm not suggesting he's a good or bad coach, but something looks like it's being lost in translation. A small market correction may be in order.
Montagna would know a thing or two about defensive structures and actions, having played under Lyon.
Montagna would know as much as I do. The two examples he plucked out are similar to footage the so-called experts trot out every week for virtually every game. Unless the players repeat the error every time they are in that situation, it’s the player’s error and not a structural or coaching error.
Montagna would know as much as I do. The two examples he plucked out are similar to footage the so-called experts trot out every week for virtually every game. Unless the players repeat the error every time they are in that situation, it’s the player’s error and not a structural or coaching error.
Maybe, but when you're having the season we're having, there appear to be far too many amateurish player errors, players who look a little confused, and they shouldn't be.
I've watched most, if not all, of Bolton's pressers, plus other media work, and to me he seems like a good communicator. He seems to have a good grasp of the mechanics of footy. But it takes two to tango, and I don't believe for a minute that our problems are all down to the players.
...............and I don't believe for a minute that our problems are all down to the players.
Not all, around 95% at a guess.
I can feel a shellacking coming on this weekend by the way.
Sometimes a coach can be close but needs the right support around him. We can see this with Hardwick/Caracella, and Malthouse/Buckley. Bolton's tactics may or may not be sound, but I find it hard to believe that players who have been in the system for many years could play so badly so regularly. I'm not suggesting he's a good or bad coach, but something looks like it's being lost in translation. A small market correction may be in order.
Montagna would know a thing or two about defensive structures and actions, having played under Lyon.
I wonder if BB is one of the those blokes who wants to do everything... control freak. When coaches learn to delegate and trust they inevitably get a better result.
Not all, around 95% at a guess.
I can feel a shellacking coming on this weekend by the way.
You could never put a number on it. Coaches have to know what they're doing, just like the players. If Bolton's message isn't getting through, then it's on him to figure out a way to get it across. The players aren't dumb.
I wonder if BB is one of the those blokes who wants to do everything... control freak. When coaches learn to delegate and trust they inevitably get a better result.
Not sure Baggers.
You could never put a number on it. Coaches have to know what they're doing, just like the players. If Bolton's message isn't getting through, then it's on him to figure out a way to get it across. The players aren't dumb.
Charlie Curnow must like what he's hearing at least, he wouldn't have been short of offers if he decided to move.
Charlie Curnow must like what he's hearing at least, he wouldn't have been short of offers if he decided to move.
He may well like the place, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for big improvement on both sides, coaches and players.
He may well like the place, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for big improvement on both sides, coaches and players.
If you look critically at the teams we've been putting on the park for the last month or so you wouldn't be expecting any wins and the odd belting shouldn't come as a surprise.
Believe me I get as pissed off about it as anyone, but then reality kicks in and I realise that Jock McHale, Norm Smith and John Kennedy rolled into one couldn't conjure a win against Collingwood on Sunday with the team that the CFC will send into battle.
If you look critically at the teams we've been putting on the park for the last month or so you wouldn't be expecting any wins and the odd belting shouldn't come as a surprise.
Believe me I get as pissed off about it as anyone, but then reality kicks in and I realise that Jock McHale, Norm Smith and John Kennedy rolled into one couldn't conjure a win against Collingwood on Sunday with the team that the CFC will send into battle.
I'm not expecting a win, but an honorable loss would be nice.
If you have a team full of stars, like the Lions 3 peat team, what does the coach do ? Ratten made the point once he moved to the Hawks that so many of their players were very easy to coach.
In among the awful skill errors etc., I just wonder whether Bolton is making things harder than he should. Adding the offensive layer has been an epic fail IMO. And that's down to coaches and players IMO. The contrast between 2016, 17 and now is palpable.
Ahh the glory days of 2016 and 2017 ::)
I'm not expecting a win, but an honorable loss would be nice.
The contrast between 2016, 17 and now is palpable.
Take three of the best five players out of any side and they'll struggle, take them out of a side already struggling and this is what you see.
Again, it seems player mismanagement has played its part this season....
Murphy, Kennedy, Marchbank and Kreuzer - all brought back too soon.
It's cost us Murphy for another big chunk of a season (and let's see if he does actually play again this year), it has cost Kennedy big time (and us as a foil for Crippa), Marchbank arguably our best third tall defender and Matty K - is he even fit now?
Why did we pick up Shaw in the off season and not even give him a go? Couldn't have been any worse than Mullet or O'Shea.... who both got extended runs despite being worse than ordinary for weeks....
I'd rather see Schmacher given a crack ahead of Mullet.
Why is Polson picked again - out of the blue - off the back of zip form in the 2s. Graham again made a scape goat....?
Then there's the ongoing MC selections. More often than not picking an unbalanced side....
Then there's the ongoing MC selections. More often than not picking an unbalanced side....
Tanking?
Tanking?
I hope so. It'd be nice to know we aren't really this bad after all
Tanking?
List development. ;)
I wonder if BB is one of the those blokes who wants to do everything... control freak. When coaches learn to delegate and trust they inevitably get a better result.
I can only go on the footage from The Journey and training snippets but Bolton and the assistants seem very relaxed and comfortable. The assistants also seem to have considerable autonomy/responsibility and Bolts is often notable for his absence. That suggests to me that Bolts is anything but a control freak ... but it would be nice to get an insider’s opinion.
Why is Polson picked again - out of the blue - off the back of zip form in the 2s. Graham again made a scape goat....?
Forward pressure tackling. He can lay a tackle and make it stick. That will be his brief tomorrow, double digit tackles in our forward 50, plus a bit of icing if he can add it.
Forward pressure tackling. He can lay a tackle and make it stick. That will be his brief tomorrow, double digit tackles in our forward 50, plus a bit of icing if he can add it.
Last time he played - against the Pies - ZERO tackles!
But 5 mighty disposals...
Yep, sound choice.
Why is Polson picked again - out of the blue - off the back of zip form in the 2s. Graham again made a scape goat....?
Polson deserved a game weeks ago ahead of Silvagni, and didn't get it!
Graham, for a 24 year old experienced player, was just awful last week! Even if his replacement isn't in form, there is no way you can reward a player by letting them retain a spot after that sort of effort!
I can only go on the footage from The Journey and training snippets but Bolton and the assistants seem very relaxed and comfortable. The assistants also seem to have considerable autonomy/responsibility and Bolts is often notable for his absence. That suggests to me that Bolts is anything but a control freak ... but it would be nice to get an insider’s opinion.
I think BB would be very specific in the way he defines strategy and sets up the overall framework for execution and monitoring of progress. Within that though I think he would delegate effectively and refrain from micro managing.
I think BB would be very specific in the way he defines strategy and sets up the overall framework for execution and monitoring of progress. Within that though I think he would delegate effectively and refrain from micro managing.
Impossible for us to know from the outside if BB is a control freak... I don't mention that as a suggestion or even an opinion just as a poser. I recall BB mentioning that he lives and breath the CFC and that can suggest an imbalance... can, not does. I just hope there are people around him who reach down, grab him by the ear and send him home! BBs passion for our club does make him a candidate for taking on too much.
Some times it has little to do with being a control freak but rather being overwhelmingly passionate and totally invested in the success of the group and club, and that can be so demanding as to flirt with burn-out. I recall that people close to certain coaches have commented on how much more successful they were when stripped of extraneous responsibilities (taken over by others) so they could focus solely on their immediate responsibilities. Pretty sure Bomber T and Dimma became much better coaches and more successful when they ceased trying to do everything. Some in the know suggest that Grant Thomas would have been a much more successful coach had he 'let go' of certain responsibilities.
Impossible for us to know from the outside if BB is a control freak... I don't mention that as a suggestion or even an opinion just as a poser. I recall BB mentioning that he lives and breath the CFC and that can suggest an imbalance... can, not does. I just hope there are people around him who reach down, grab him by the ear and send him home! BBs passion for our club does make him a candidate for taking on too much.
Some times it has little to do with being a control freak but rather being overwhelmingly passionate and totally invested in the success of the group and club, and that can be so demanding as to flirt with burn-out. I recall that people close to certain coaches have commented on how much more successful they were when stripped of extraneous responsibilities (taken over by others) so they could focus solely on their immediate responsibilities. Pretty sure Bomber T and Dimma became much better coaches and more successful when they ceased trying to do everything. Some in the know suggest that Grant Thomas would have been a much more successful coach had he 'let go' of certain responsibilities.
He actually strikes me as very similar to Ratten in personality and "absorption" of the club.
I actually love his enthusiasm and commitment...and I sincerely hope the results start to flow his way before the Carlton coaching "Black Hole" sucks him in.
He could end up being a great long term coach...but we have to remember that in many respects he still has his 'L' plates on.
That's not necessarily a bad thing because if he grows with this group there will be peaks and troughs... but they'll grow together and form a solid bond.
But it does mean that in the meantime there will be results like last weekend.
It really all comes down to timing.
Can he last the distance?
@ Baggers
I really don't know either Baggers but I'm just going from his very relaxed demeanour. The control freaks I've encountered have been far more intense and obsessive, but in your line of work you have likely seen a lot more of them than I have.
Congratulations to Weiters on his 50th.
I hope he has a breakout game and shuts up his critics.
Go blues
Congratulations to Weiters on his 50th.
I hope he has a breakout game and shuts up his critics.
Go blues
I hope he has a great game.
I think he had his break out games in his first year! ;)
CARNA BAGGERS!