For every double or triple lead there was a fast break from the midfield, wing or kick out that went in quickly and came back out just as quickly.
We are too soft on what is happening in our F50, we have accepted mediocrity too long.
Early in the season we made a specific emphasis of keeping the ball in, we looked competitive despite a series of narrow losses but the games was good to watch and we looked to be progressing. As the season has dragged on we have become less and less effective, we have looked lethargic and disinterested and like we are going back to our old ways.
It is not our mids or HBs that are the primarily problem. In fact if not for players like Scotland, Tuohy, Walker and Simpson we would be getting reamed week in week out!
And I am full of praise for Hendo, but he was on his Pat Malone on Saturday night as a tall. EFC know Meat is worthless marking on the wing, they let him do it in the first game and he did it again this game. He had no respect from them and no presence inside F50, and he won't get any from other top clubs. Add to that Warnock as our primary ruck at 206cm is ferking worthless outside of the center circle. Judd is not worth the risk for one weak attempt at finals for that bunch.
If Judd can get on the park he's going to play - even at 25%. He's too driven and the club will allow it IMO.
I am not so sure, we have a couple of long term injury concerns that to me means risking a bloke for a good percentage of next season, or pre-season, might not make sense for one maybe two finals matches at best.
Sure they think they can win, and they are driven, but in reality they are not in the hunt for 2013.
Add to that Scotland is likely to retire, Carrazzo is injury plagued and Simpson and McLean will be another year older. We are quickly losing the old wiser heads, do we really want Judd doing a full medial ligament and missing possibly his last pre-season or some of the 2014 season proper?
We love him for putting his hand up, put some perspective please!
But if 9.22 was 18.13 (for example) - voila 121 points!
True, but how many of those 22 behinds were from blokes having pot shots from distance or ridiculous angles.
I remember Betts, Gibbs and Yarran missing a few sodas for starters. That's just in the last quarter.
No question about that, but when the scoreboard already says 9-18 the disease has well and truly set in.
There would not be a club in the country to reject the number of deep forward opportunities we presented on Saturday, and there wouldn't be a club that accepted the result yet we have posters here saying they were "good!"
And as a functional forward line possibly entering finals, that is NBG, and a bloke like Judd entering possibly his last season is not worth the risk during a final series we have little chance to progress in.
But if 9.22 was 18.13 (for example) - voila 121 points!
True, but how many of those 22 behinds were from blokes having pot shots from distance or ridiculous angles. And you can add to that a few OOBs as well, not just 22 behinds, some came from Hendo or Meat leading deep into a pocket, FFS Betts and other smalls can do that!
For me that is a symptom of a side that has lost all faith in the ability of tall forwards to take a mark or bring the ball to ground.
Even from my spud league playing days, the biggest demoralizing thing that could happen was to fight your guts out at midfield stoppages only to watch your tall forward fail to compete and the ball sail back over your head. You at least wanted it locked in, or brought to ground if no mark was possible. But watching EFC punch the ball directly to a team mate like a training drill, or having various 3rd men drop across the pack unopposed, is just demoralising.
If your only gig is busting packs and clunking marks you better do it so regularly it becomes monotonous!
Absolutely agree FB. Whatever anyone says about how we played and what we and didn't do, and who did this and didn't do that, the bottom line was that we were creating plenty of inside 50s and goal-scoring opportunities.
I absolutely agree @Cookie, but I also see the connection between all those inside F50s and the failing talls.
In many cases the entries were pretty swift and long kicking, some over the back of the EFC defense, yet Casboult didn't hit the scoreboard at all and Hendo only kicked 1:2=8
For me that is not a forward line you that you can use to justify risking a 30 year like Judd returning from a medial ligament. That forward line is going nowhere in the finals. Look at the four matches leading up to Saturday, scores against EFC 143, 133, 120, 115 and then Carlton 76. It says quite a lot!
Ellard-Got to be kidding, will be gone by end of year back to WAFL...
I think Ellard was BOG by some margin in the VFL, in a very poor result for the NBs.
If a player puts in like that in a game when your team is being thrashed it makes you take notice. McLean did this for three years while the naysayers kept telling us he is too slow, cannot kick, past it! We have too many that surrender easily, I'd rather have a Ellard type for 22 games than say a player who gives up at a critical moment! If you want to know why Port are heading for finals, they have 22 good ordinary players who never give up!
Before the comments today the only mention was 100% negative, perhaps time heals all wounds but it has only been four days!
You pulled up 3 or 4 people who said he was crap, one of them was you who is still hurt over Hampson's shortcomings and another was The Sheik who says everyone is crap.
I never mentioned Casboult in the post game thread or the voting thread, sorry to disappoint you! I only mentioned him in this thread discussing the viability of our list in finals in the context of playing a bloke like Judd as being worth the risk. This is the relevant thread for that discussion, and Judd isn't the overriding consideration but the players around him are!
Hampson hasn't played for months, and that is your best defense for Casboult or our other tall forwards!!!
Most of the forum I would assume think he was serviceable because if he was that bad this place certainly wouldn't have missed him.
They just failed to notice the 200cm 105kg piece of Meat with the shag haircut!
A couple of the main reasons we lost that game were because Warnock's taps against Ryder were useless, and Casboult's minimal relief ruckwork was even worse. In addition despite having Casboult at 200cm roaming F50 for the majority of the game, and Henderson 196cm roaming inside F50, the only effective contested marks taken inside F50 came from Menzel. I do not consider the talls taking diving marks on the lead outside F50 as effective, we have any number of fast small / medium forwards that can do that leading into space. If the talls are out on the wing our F50 is hopelessly out gunned and we see it time and time again. On Saturday when they stayed deep maybe up to a dozen times our mids delivered the ball quickly and deeply into F50 only to see Carlilse, Hooker and Goddard clear the ball with relative ease. The EFC defense punched the ball wherever they liked and at ground level Hendo and Casboult were relatively useless.
Our best performed marking target was probably Menzel and that was only for half a game and our hardest working inside F50 target was McLean and he was only on the ground for about 10mins!
In retrospect I think MM made a massive error leaving Waite in defense and Hendo up forward, at least Waite makes a contest in the hot zone. Hendo is too slow once the ball hits the deck, and Casboult just doesn't contest as some of the post game thread criticisms suggest.
So in conclusion, if that is the best we can offer in the finals I say we might as well mothball them now!
There's surely no chance of Richmond losing to the scum, therefore if we make the finals Richmond it will be.
Richmond might rest half their side and hope the roos beat the pies so they can play Port rather than the blues or the roos who beat them last time out.
Be alot of incentive for Richmond to "tank" this week. Playing Port at home would be so better for the Tigers than playing North or Carlton.
I have searched voting and post game threads, high and low and they are the only mentions I could find to this moment!
Quote from: The Sheik
Waite in defence was a handbag, Casboult around the ground just shat himself under the pressure and none of the could kick a goal when it was needed.
Quote from: Mondy
+ 1
Casbout zero intelligence.
Quote from: EB1
Gibbs missed that last kick he had for goal because he felt pressure, Casboult panicked and turned the ball over under pressure, handpassing to no one after he had a chance to kick the footy....McInnes punched instead of marked because of the perceived pressure.
Quote from: GTC
Brainless Dopes like: Waite Casbolt Bell
Quote from: ringdabelltommy
The following players have to go:
The 3 amigos. Armfield, Casboult, Joeseph (can you believe he got a game tonight!), Waite, Scotland, Catchia, Duygan, Warnock and Robinson, Gibbs and Judd.
Nobody here on the forum managed to give him a vote, even Crashlander who just about voted or mentioned everybody couldn't find a vote for him!
Most of the match rating systems have him in the bottom 4 or 5.
If you had told me Hendo or Menzel was OK up forward, I could accept it as your assessment. Both had far more influence than Casboult who was neither effective or influential, and that seems supported by the votes and the stats.
I spent most of the night looking for Meat wondering if he was ever going to give Warnock a break. Warnock must have rucked 90% or even more of the time!
Sorry, if that is what you think it takes for a 200cm player to be OK we have very different perspectives.
Does this mean we put him on ice early on purpose? It would suggest so to me anyway.
McLean is gone for the season he racks up possessions against Nthmond, Carrazzo is out, Kreuzer hasn't played for three weeks, Walker is suspect, Murphy limping and Judd coming out of a medial ligament, Scotland has quad tightness.
Casboult reverted to a spud, Warnock got a million taps to nobody.
Lucas stunk it up in the Maggoos, Cachia rolled an ankle, Rowe didn't get close to it, Bootsma was ordinary, Hampson missed again, Garlett looked lost.
