Carlton Supporters Club

Lily Of Laguna => Ladies Lounge => Topic started by: LP on June 10, 2021, 03:07:20 pm

Title: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on June 10, 2021, 03:07:20 pm
Have we heard anything official yet about dates for the next AFLW season?

I've heard some scuttlebutt it may be delayed to the 2nd half of 2022, that could play in our favour with a player like Mimi Hill.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on June 10, 2021, 04:40:15 pm
Have we heard anything official yet about dates for the next AFLW season?

I've heard some scuttlebutt it may be delayed to the 2nd half of 2022, that could play in our favour with a player like Mimi Hill.
Only thing i heard, pre-latest lockdown, was december start, finals deon before the mens game starts, no overlap.
They were just trying to work out the xmas period.

That may have changed now.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on October 04, 2021, 11:20:18 am
That story about Maher and Harf trying to poach Ellyse Perry is an interesting one, she should go for it!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 04, 2021, 11:27:56 am
https://womens.afl/news/74147/carlton-s-ellyse-perry-plot-revealed-the-invitation-still-exists-
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on October 04, 2021, 11:30:18 am
I worked with her uncle years ago, he told me cricket was always her first love.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 17, 2021, 06:31:31 pm
https://twitter.com/AFL/status/1449538133863792640
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on October 17, 2021, 09:37:13 pm
That's a sweet combo, the universe couldn't find a better midfield mentor for Prepsakis than Diesel.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: DJC on October 18, 2021, 12:01:02 am
So, our football director is a little more hands on the last one.  That's good to see and can only help the likes of Maddy, Elise, Abbie, Grace, etc.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on October 20, 2021, 08:23:46 am
It's an interesting season coming up, the time is about right for fans to start seeing dramatic swings in player capability from the younger brigade.

This might well have happened earlier if not for COVID, but I think we will find the younger girls who have now been exposed to 2 or 3 seasons of development will start to progress past the early adopters of the sport who basically played off a mostly natural ability. At lot of this is also due to the increased level of competition delivered via the VFLW.

Things to expect are significant improvements in ball use, stronger more continuous chains of play, and if allowed by the AFLW and it's umpires a higher level of physicality that comes naturally from improved strength, acceleration and agility. There may be some interesting tactical evolution as well!

Still, don't expect the girls to kick and handball like men, just judge their progress relative to how they started!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on October 20, 2021, 09:27:58 am
Still, don't expect the girls to kick and handball like men, just judge their progress relative to how they started!


I kind of lost interest in the women's comp and didn't watch much for a while.
I guess the player movement (who's playing for Carlton this year?)and the still unsettled nature of the competition (number of sides still being worked out) had a bit to do with that drop off.
It's hard to invest in a side when there's that switching of players and as new teams enter the competition there's a need for that movement to occur to bolster the new sides.
Having said that...
I just caught a few games towards the end of the last season and thought that there had been a definite improvement in the standard.
It was probably more obvious not having watched for some time.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: tonyo on October 20, 2021, 11:20:37 am

I just caught a few games towards the end of the last season and thought that there had been a definite improvement in the standard.
It was probably more obvious not having watched for some time.

The standard of player skills has gone through the roof - in the first season, most of the players kicked the ball like your Mum did off the back verandah.  Now, the majority are comfortably kicking drop punts and actually finding targets, and handball has improved out of sight.  The very best (like Maddy Prespakis) have developed skills that are not too far behind the men.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: DJC on October 20, 2021, 01:46:52 pm
The standard of player skills has gone through the roof - in the first season, most of the players kicked the ball like your Mum did off the back verandah.  Now, the majority are comfortably kicking drop punts and actually finding targets, and handball has improved out of sight.  The very best (like Maddy Prespakis) have developed skills that are not too far behind the men.

I wouldn't go quite that far but there has been an incredible improvement in skills.  I think that improvement will continue as the code-hoppers and later converts are replaced by girls who have grown up playing the game. 

Marks are dropped, ground balls are fumbled and kicking and handballing lack the penetration of the men's game, but it's still skillful and generally very competitive.  I'd say the skill level is close to that of elite under 15 boys and the tactics are quite different as a consequence.  I enjoy watching our girls have a go.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on October 20, 2021, 02:20:28 pm
I'd say the skill level is close to that of elite under 15 boys and the tactics are quite different as a consequence.  I enjoy watching our girls have a go.
Agreed, and I expect it to stay around that physical level for the foreseeable future, but with different tactics as you mentioned.

It's why I find it so odd that many refuse to watch, yet they might happily watch an u15 or u16 boys final. Interestingly I've heard quite a few anecdotes of senior clubs getting the introduction of a senior women's teams wrong, by associating inductees with the typical boys u18 or u19s. At that level the boys are already well beyond the physical capabilities of the girls, of course I expect someone will want to shout me down as sexist but that isn't really an argument against the reality of the situation but a tantrum against fate.

Many of us happily watch elite u15 or u16 boys, and I think the senior girls will be comfortably in that performance range long term while probably being tactically superior.

I hope I haven't been unfair.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 20, 2021, 04:25:19 pm
Many of us happily watch elite u15 or u16 boys....
We've watched the mens team for the past 2 decades and thats at about the same level.  ::)  :-[
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on October 20, 2021, 04:27:54 pm
We've watched the mens team for the past 2 decades and thats at about the same level.  ::)  :-[
Actually, in past years, sometimes I've gone to watch local junior and senior football in preference to watching Carlton or other AFL games!

But I must admit I find the recent AFL rule changes to be delivering significantly improved product.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 20, 2021, 04:33:26 pm

I kind of lost interest in the women's comp and didn't watch much for a while.
I guess the player movement (who's playing for Carlton this year?)and the still unsettled nature of the competition (number of sides still being worked out) had a bit to do with that drop off.
It's hard to invest in a side when there's that switching of players and as new teams enter the competition there's a need for that movement to occur to bolster the new sides.
Having said that...
I just caught a few games towards the end of the last season and thought that there had been a definite improvement in the standard.
It was probably more obvious not having watched for some time.
The teams are now settled with all 18 teams across both the mens and the womens.

re player movement, its been a bit of an exodus of late, but considering the amount of teams coming in....and the fact we've snaffled a few from elsewhere (O'Dea, Dal Pos..) its not quite as bad as it seems.

Harris is irreplaceable when on song....but she'd been very much a Fevola, but with slightly less extremes.
remember when Fev took off his boots late in a game? Remember when he refused to chase and argued with an umpire despite the ball being 2m away? A lot of people have forgotten that, but remember 8 goals against Mal Michael and Dustin Fletcher basically in a half. At the time, i was happy for fev to go. I'm also happy for Harris to go.
Perhaps now we can get some more consistency, and less reliant on 1 individual.....and very much an individual.
The Hoskings hurt, but their skill level was questionable and will now be replaced by the new generation coming through. Abby McKay and Mimi Hill offer the same hardness, but with an upgrade on skills. Possibly not the same level of kamikaze as the hoskings, but acceptable none the less.

Overall, i was disappointed with our off-season list changes, but i'm hoping the improvement in team culture (with no harris) covers the gap. I expect finals this year.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 20, 2021, 04:53:23 pm
....and as if on cue...

https://www.womens.afl/news/75057
The latest "everyone is flying" propaganda from the club.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on October 20, 2021, 05:05:39 pm
The teams are now settled with all 18 teams across both the mens and the womens.

re player movement, its been a bit of an exodus of late, but considering the amount of teams coming in....and the fact we've snaffled a few from elsewhere (O'Dea, Dal Pos..) its not quite as bad as it seems.
Yep, it's settled now, but was still being worked through when I dropped off.

I'd like to think I can get back on board with it, but when you do lose interest there's no guarantee it will return.
But that's just a personal thing.
You can't manufacture enthusiasm.

Anyway, hopefully they have a good season...that's the best way to get folks interested.

Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 20, 2021, 05:41:48 pm
There's a good couple of pics of Maddy and diesel laughing it up. (not what i posted the other day).

Not sure what happened, but Maddy is helping diesel up off the ground.

Hopefully someone else (with insta?) can post a pic.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 20, 2021, 06:59:02 pm
Found it.

https://twitter.com/CarltonFC/status/1450678911218507776
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: crashlander on October 22, 2021, 10:28:20 pm
We've lost Serena Gibbs for the coming season: mental health issues. Considering that she was the one we were hoping on to take over as FF, we've just ben hit by a vicious blow.  :'(  :'(
However, it does allow us to recruit someone else while Gibbs is on the inactive list.  :o  :)
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: DJC on October 22, 2021, 11:36:54 pm
We've lost Serena Gibbs for the coming season: mental health issues. Considering that she was the one we were hoping on to take over as FF, we've just ben hit by a vicious blow.  :'(  :'(
However, it does allow us to recruit someone else while Gibbs is on the inactive list.  :o  :)

That's a shame.  She was showing a lot of promise and looked like she was enjoying her footy.

Hopefully, she can get appropriate help and sort out her issues.  Playing footy again will be a bonus and I hope she gets another chance to excel.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Thryleon on October 23, 2021, 08:19:46 am
Timing is interesting.   No comments about no jab no play here.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 23, 2021, 08:32:24 am
Timing is interesting.   No comments about no jab no play here.
I was going to, but you beat me to it.

We'll see what happens 12 months from now.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 23, 2021, 08:36:12 am
We've lost Serena Gibbs for the coming season: mental health issues. Considering that she was the one we were hoping on to take over as FF, we've just ben hit by a vicious blow.  :'(  :'(
However, it does allow us to recruit someone else while Gibbs is on the inactive list.  :o  :)
With losing Harris, and now Gibbs, there will be a lot riding on Darcy Vescio and Nic Stevens. to perform at or above the same level as last year.
It will also through Imogen Milford into the deep end pretty quickly as the only other player capable of playing that role on the list.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: DJC on October 23, 2021, 09:56:59 am
Timing is interesting.   No comments about no jab no play here.

Probably because the club announced that all players are vaccinated  :)
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on October 23, 2021, 10:46:15 am
Probably because the club announced that all players are vaccinated  :)
When did they announce that?
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on October 23, 2021, 11:27:36 am
When did they announce that?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/carltons-aflw-squad-avoids-covid-issues-that-have-hit-richmond-and-adelaide/news-story/97c040f429672515cb08c2209234f3b8


Quote
But Carlton AFLW coach Daniel Harford revealed all Blues players and staff have had at least one jab, with the majority already receiving two after recently beginning pre-season training.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on November 22, 2021, 01:35:52 pm
Late last week there was some behind the scenes news brewing. A controversy relating to our AFLW/VFLW squads and a coach or senior executive/administrator acting inappropriately, also potentially involving a former marquee player.

It all seems to have vanished for now!

I wonder if this is the hand of Cook, or it could be the media groups have put in on the backburner subject the Paine story fading away, and as such the story may resurface shortly!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on November 22, 2021, 03:21:58 pm
Late last week there was some behind the scenes news brewing. A controversy relating to our AFLW/VFLW squads and a coach or senior executive/administrator acting inappropriately, also potentially involving a former marquee player.

It all seems to have vanished for now!

I wonder if this is the hand of Cook, or it could be the media groups have put in on the backburner subject the Paine story fading away, and as such the story may resurface shortly!

Please explain.
PM if necessary
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: madbluboy on November 22, 2021, 06:42:03 pm
Please explain.
PM if necessary


They put on the heraldsun but wouldn't name names.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on November 22, 2021, 09:16:34 pm
They put on the heraldsun but wouldn't name names.

I saw the headline, but couldn't read it as i'm not a subscriber.

Cut and paste?
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: madbluboy on November 23, 2021, 10:20:19 am
Sheahan Ink: Questions over why Carlton AFLW coach left club
A coach who left her position at Carlton is being probed over what is understood to be a personal issue with a high-profile AFLW player.

A  highly respected coach in the AFL Women’s competition has left Carlton and the club is tying itself in knots over the circumstances surrounding her departure.

The woman exited her position at the Blues after a personal issue with a high profile AFLW player.

It’s a case of ‘she said, she said’ with clear differences between the camps about how her departure came about.

The messy situation has come at a bad time for the Blues as it attempts to start afresh after the recent upheaval of its men’s outfit that saw the club sack its coach and CEO.

The AFL is aware of the situation, with Paul Hamilton looking into it, in consultation with the League’s Human Resources department.

The coach is well considered in the AFL’s ranks and her reputation is sound.

Those close to her fear the personal situation will cause her profile in football circles to be unfairly tarnished.

Carlton refused to comment on the matter, saying it wanted to protect the wellbeing of those involved.

The woman, who also had a career as a footballer herself, looks to have since secured a role with the men’s under 18s NAB League.

A spokesman for her was also tight-lipped about what really unfolded.

We hope for everyone’s sake the parties can both move forward.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: DJC on November 23, 2021, 05:05:06 pm
We currently don't have a female coach associated with our AFLW team.

When did Lauren Morecroft move on?
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on November 23, 2021, 05:28:58 pm
We currently don't have a female coach associated with our AFLW team.

When did Lauren Morecroft move on?
When? Or Why?? ;)

There is enough information in that article to narrow it down to who the coach in question was.
Firstly, it gives a gender, which could be assumed, but given we've only had a couple in recent years, and only one of them played AFLW it leaves little to the imagination.

The question then becomes who is the player.
If the player has recently left, its a 50-50 on who the player is.
If the player is still there, its a bit more of a guessing game.
In any event, it appears its no longer an issue.

BTW, Thanks MBB
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: DJC on November 23, 2021, 11:12:03 pm
LP's mail was a "former marquee player" and there's only one possibility there. 

So, it's an issue between a former player and a former coach.  Perhaps the Hun should be focusing on what this means for Melbourne rather than drawing a spurious link to our former coach and CEO.  Pathetic reporting, but what would you expect from that rag?
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on November 24, 2021, 01:04:52 am
LP's mail was a "former marquee player" and there's only one possibility there.
Correct, but as you rightly point out when it comes to courting controversy The Hun can turn a no game delister into a potential Brownlow medallist! ;)

Also, this mail may go further back than what is implied, terms like "recent" are notoriously rubbery!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on November 24, 2021, 04:03:57 pm
LP's mail was a "former marquee player" and there's only one possibility there. 

So, it's an issue between a former player and a former coach.  Perhaps the Hun should be focusing on what this means for Melbourne rather than drawing a spurious link to our former coach and CEO.  Pathetic reporting, but what would you expect from that rag?

Yeah, as LP suggests, every player is a 'star' when something bad happens.

If it goes further back than our most recent season, then that would open the door for more speculation and a former captain who jumped ship and another former coach. However, based on what i know about each, i think its highly unlikely.

I think we have enough info to know the coach and the player.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on November 24, 2021, 04:17:20 pm
I think we have enough info to know the coach and the player.
Well, at least to greatly narrow the field, there are only a couple of options at best that seem to fit each side of this debate.

Personally, I'm not that interested in the who, in light of modern woke culture I'm more interested in what, as I suspect it will be something that 5 years ago probably wouldn't even get a run!

Even so, it still feels like a beat up. People separate from clubs for personal reasons (differences) all the time, it's just you don't hear about it in the media like we did with Mitchell and The Angry Ant!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on November 24, 2021, 04:20:16 pm
Well, at least to greatly narrow the field, there are only a couple of options at best that seem to fit each side of this debate.

Personally, I'm not that interested in the who, in light of modern woke culture I'm more interested in what, as I suspect it will be something that 5 years ago probably wouldn't even get a run!

Even so, it still feels like a beat up. People separate from clubs for personal reasons (differences) all the time, it's just you don't hear about it in the media like we did with Mitchell and The Angry Ant!
If i can work out the 'who' i can work out the level i need to worry about it.

Some people attract trouble. Some people create it.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Thryleon on November 24, 2021, 06:33:28 pm
^^

yep, one of them preferred to instagram from the sidelines instead of training probably sounds like the most likely type.

Not surprising to see that this one might be "boxing on" (pardon the pun).

The others were our first ever draftee, and key to creating a team, and one fled to the enemy after spending a year out injured with a knee.

I know who my money is on, particularly if she decides to take a fall in the 3rd round....


Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: capcom on November 24, 2021, 06:57:32 pm
There's more than enough clues to work out who it is :)
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on December 18, 2021, 01:21:01 pm
Our girls playing Saints girls in a practice match today.

FT:
Carlton: 46
Saints: 28

Brooke Walker supposedly back to her best form with the play of the day.
Selling candy and kicking goals from the boundary.

Vescio kicked 2 in the first. Nic Stevens also kicking 1.
Not missing Harris at this stage up forward is a good sign.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on January 08, 2022, 08:47:44 pm
Georgie Prespakis got 20 touches and was among the best in the cats loss to North tonight.

Cats might have a hard time keeping her if they continue to lose.....especially with big sis playing in a successful side...*fingers crossed*

Get in her ear now!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on January 09, 2022, 01:10:57 pm
Tayla Harris had her debut with the dees last night in their win over the dogs.

Harris had 7 touches, 3 marks, 0 tackles and 1.1
Sounds about right. Only 2 players for the dees had less touches, a young ruck Caris and former Carlton player (from season 1) Allison Brown....who was delisted from us, and st.kilda after that.

Not sure thats the numbers you'd expect from your gun recruit....



Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on January 09, 2022, 08:45:32 pm
Chloe Dalton was taken off injured in her first match for GWS.
Bri Davey looks like her 2nd ACL.
Not a great round to be an ex carlton player.

Worse for Izzy Huntington who did her 3rd ACL the other night.

We have Mimi Hill coming back from an ACL and fingers crossed thats the end of that list right there.

Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on January 11, 2022, 04:51:01 pm
Brisbane defender Kate Lutkins has done her ACL as well.

Thats 3 ACLs in 1 round.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 12, 2022, 11:49:01 am
Looking at GWS ins this week.

In: P.Randall, R.Privitelli, K.Loynes, C.Dalton, H.Zreika

3 former carlton players in that side which would quite possible be in our side this week.
We've let go a fair bit of talent over the journey.

Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: crashlander on February 12, 2022, 04:03:58 pm
Looking at GWS ins this week.

In: P.Randall, R.Privitelli, K.Loynes, C.Dalton, H.Zreika

3 former carlton players in that side which would quite possible be in our side this week.
We've let go a fair bit of talent over the journey.
Indeed. And we didn't get much back for any of them. Dalton is a star when she's fit: we didn't get much back for her at all. Loynes is well past her best, but she still gives a great contest.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 12, 2022, 05:13:09 pm
Indeed. And we didn't get much back for any of them. Dalton is a star when she's fit: we didn't get much back for her at all. Loynes is well past her best, but she still gives a great contest.
It was either Dalton or Jess Hosking leaving which netted us Dal Pos. Was akin to a straight swap in the washup i think.

Dal Pos is highly regarded by teammates and is an 'on-field' coach, but her efforts as a player are very much disappointing if you ask me.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: crashlander on February 12, 2022, 07:53:19 pm
It was either Dalton or Jess Hosking leaving which netted us Dal Pos. Was akin to a straight swap in the washup i think.

Dal Pos is highly regarded by teammates and is an 'on-field' coach, but her efforts as a player are very much disappointing if you ask me.
Indeed. Very disappointing.
I'm sorry, but I put Elise O'Dea in the same category. She might be a good leader, but her on-field performances have been poor this season and not that great last year. She just make a terrible turnover that resulted in a goal (Harrington dropping a pretty easy mark didn't help either).
We've spent lots of time and money on players who are struggling to keep up with the game. They might be great people, but we need good players and they're not the answer.

Losing Davey and Harris as we did hurt us a lot, although we did get something reasonable back for Davey. Harris didn't even net us a 1st round pick. But it is the other players like Dalton, who could have made up the difference that hurts almost as much.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 13, 2022, 01:36:51 pm
O'Dea has at least played some decent footy, albeit disappointing for large chunks of time, very much this year.

Unfortunately, there is a common theme with O'Dea and Dal Pos
.....Vescio.

Those 3 go back to pre-AFLW days and were teammates from the Falcons.
Those 2 both came here because of Darcy (and perhaps NOT because of pure talent) and perhaps that is half our issue.
The game of AFLW has sped up so much since its inception and those 2 have always been on the slower side and its hurting us as a result.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 13, 2022, 02:00:24 pm
Just having a look at the ladder for a moment, it paints an interesting picture of where AFLW is at.


Look at the top 5 teams....
Fremantle - 1st WA side
Adelaide - Only SA side
Melbourne - Vic
North Melbourne - Vic
Brisbane - 1st QLD side......and played less games than the rest of the comp.

The middle group 6-9....
Collingwood - vic
GC - 2nd QLD side
GWS - only NSW side

The bottom 6 teams....
Richmond - vic team
Geelong - geelong/vic
Dogs - vic
Eagles - 2nd WA side
Carlton - vic
St. Kilda vic team

What you see is clear divide based on geographical location and/or time in the system.
Put simply, the talent pool is too diluted to follow the mens game and until you get the girls full time and 'force them' to go interstate from the draft, it will continue to be the case.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on February 13, 2022, 03:12:13 pm
After being quite enthusiastic at the start of this project I've gone completely "off it" and Kruddler's post highlights one of the major problems.
We're still yet to see a full complement of teams yet the gap between the best and worst players on most teams is significant.
Consider the talent pool that sees the cream of players make the grade at male AFL level.
A talent pool well over 100 years in the making.
Yet they're trying to duplicate that level of participation with the women's sides.
As more teams enter the competition the talent pool is spread even further and players change teams like their socks.
How can you get continuity and bonding within a playing under those circumstances?
How do supporters get around and develop group an interest or bond with players?

Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on February 13, 2022, 03:25:51 pm
Just to be clear...I'm not against the concept of AFLW.
It's a great idea and will give a lot of young players opportunities and enjoyment that they may not have experienced otherwise but...

Having created the competition I fear the way it's being advanced too quickly in a way that means that many people are becoming a bit disenchanted with some aspects, and like me losing interest.
What are the crowd numbers like for these games.
I suspect the TV audiences are up as the number of teams increases but are the 'average per game' increasing.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Baggers on February 13, 2022, 05:00:43 pm
K, Principal LODS - spot on. Well analyzed/said.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Thryleon on February 13, 2022, 09:14:14 pm
Not sure what everyone is so surprised about.  This is exactly where women's sports at the elite level ends up.

Will it get better in future?  Probably not. 

Aflw is a niche sport.  It doesn't appeal to the majority of girls, for a variety of reasons, but sports in general doesn't appeal to the majority of women.

Men have the opposite equation.  The majority of men i know would happily forge or would have forged a pro career whilst a lot of females I know aren't interested in sports like that.

It is what it is. 

I wish it all the best, but the talent pool is further diluted by this phenomenon.   Most women whilst happy to compete dont really want to get their hands dirty and can be quite delicate. 
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: shawny on February 13, 2022, 09:54:58 pm
Let’s just call it as it is. It’s junk. Awful to watch and gone backwards instead of forward. AFL will continue to bankroll it but if they were serious it would be cut.

They are not professional enough many are unfit majority have under 14 skills at best yet they throw 15 teams into a comp that with the talent available you would be pressed finding room for more then 6 teams.

A proper mens pre season comp like the 80s and 90s versions maybe even with some 2nd round draft incentive depending on where you finish would add some added interest. Imagine knowing if you win you get a 1st round selection in the 2nd round of the draft.

I would watch it.

Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: crashlander on February 13, 2022, 10:22:14 pm
Just to be clear...I'm not against the concept of AFLW.
It's a great idea and will give a lot of young players opportunities and enjoyment that they may not have experienced otherwise but...

Having created the competition I fear the way it's being advanced too quickly in a way that means that many people are becoming a bit disenchanted with some aspects, and like me losing interest.
What are the crowd numbers like for these games.
I suspect the TV audiences are up as the number of teams increases but are the 'average per game' increasing.
Crowds at Carlton are down considerably. By a factor of 8, based on Rd 1 crowds compared to the first season.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 13, 2022, 10:32:27 pm
I wish it all the best, but the talent pool is further diluted by this phenomenon.   Most women whilst happy to compete dont really want to get their hands dirty and can be quite delicate. 
Regardless of the type of women that want to play such is a whole other kettle of fish, I think you are misunderstanding my comments.

The diluted talent is not about the number of teams exactly, it's the location of those teams and how the draft works.

Adelaide are the strongest team in the comp and have been since the comp started.
Adelaide have access to every girl in SA and NT. Their 'draft' is simply picking the best players from that group and no other team can pick those players.

Add up all the players who they have access too and compare that to the amount of players from Victoria.
Now you have 8 teams in Victoria (including Geelong) who have to pick from that list.
Unless there are 8x more girls in Vic, simple maths shows you Adelaide will get a more talented/better list.

It's been similar for freo and Brisbane up until the recent introduction of West Coast and Gold Coast.

The talent is not evenly distributed across the aflw because the draft is not a national draft. It's essentially a state draft.

It's not about the overall standard, it's about the distribution of talent and the one sidedness that has created.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 13, 2022, 10:34:01 pm
Crowds at Carlton are down considerably. By a factor of 8, based on Rd 1 crowds compared to the first season.
Are you talking r1 this year vs r1 in year 1?
Hardly a fair comparison.

Fwiw, covid would be playing a huge factor in crowd numbers as well.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 13, 2022, 10:35:13 pm
....and the fact that you don't know when/where  a game is being played 2 days before it's scheduled doesn't help either
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: shawny on February 13, 2022, 10:39:14 pm
....and the fact that you don't know when/where  a game is being played 2 days before it's scheduled doesn't help either

If you look deep enough you can always find excuses.

The comp is a farce and 99% of fans know it just don’t want to say it.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 13, 2022, 11:23:49 pm
If you look deep enough you can always find excuses.

The comp is a farce and 99% of fans know it just don’t want to say it.
Nobody is saying it's perfect, far from it, but to imply it's not worth persisting with is more naive by comparison.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on February 13, 2022, 11:36:30 pm
What we have at the moment is a bit of a skeleton that needs fleshing out....and maybe that shouldn't just result in the cloning of the men's competition.

AFLW is a competition that can win folks like me back but there is a bit of a process involved, and it may not happen in my lifetime.
You see....
The first, and to my mind one of the most important things, is to establish a bit of history.
You can't drop a navy jumper on a set of players and share a famous club name and expect that to immediately resonate with supporters.
I just don't feel that connection with the women's side.
That kind of bond and respect from supporters is something that has to be earned...and it's earned over years of highs and lows.
The club can contribute through stability, continuity and retention of players.
The players can contribute through improving their skills, sacrifice, success and loyalty.
They need to create their own history...and take the supporter along for the ride.
They have to show they care as much as the supporter.... and that it's not,, for them, just a part-time job.

The problem though, is that it will be basically a part time job, for a few years at least, because things like a professional approach and improved rates of pay are dependent on the interest and finances generated by the competition.
1000-2000 crowds wont cut it.
The AFL may prop it up for a while but they'll want to see some return for their outlay  down the track.

The competition faces some other challenges.
The talent spread has been mentioned... and that is a biggie.

The attractiveness of the game is another factor. I haven't seen a lot of football this year but a standard I thought was improving last year doesn't seem to have kicked on.
Teams scoring one goal for the game aren't going to have fans rushing back in great numbers.
If it was our men's side they'd be crucified.
How to solve that...skills and fitness levels will improve eventually but some consideration should be given to not following blindly the rules of the male competition.
Create points of difference with the men's game.
Introduce rules and measures to increase the scoring.

As I mentioned things like draft and salary equity have to stay on the backburner until the competition reaches a level where it's possible for the game to support these options.
You can't be sending people from Victoria to Queensland or WA to live without adequate financial support.
Rivalries are in their infancy. These may develop over time but they're not, should not, be aligned to the rivalries of the men's teams. Let them develop of their own accord.

Some decisions have already been made with additional sides that may mean the competition needs to have a bit of a trough before re-establishing itself and kicking on.
From a Carlton point of view that means establishing a competitive successful side that supporters want to follow in its own right, not just because it shares a jumper and a name.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 13, 2022, 11:57:07 pm
It's chicken and egg lods.

Does the standard get better and that leads to better pay
Or
Does better pay lead to a better standard.

....and which should come first.

The girls are starting to make a bit of noise about pay. Not that they think they deserve more for playing AFLW, but because in order for it to take the next step, the girls need some kind of security. 1 year contracts is the norm, with 2 year contracts the maximum possible and rare by comparison. Those 1 year contracts are basically for 6 months, they other 6 they don't get paid.....BUT....they are still expected to be elite athletes.

The afl dropped the ball when they canned the season mid finals 2 years ago.
You had girls busting their gut all year, play 7 or 8 games and then the afl pulls up stumps and you get nothing out of it. Postpone first, cancel as  last resort.

How can the girls take the next step with their commitment if the afl doesn't give them any?

Give them a proper season, give them an annual wage they can make work financially and the standard will magically improve....and it will grow the game where their salaries are covered, by the revenue aflw makes.

You hear the girls speak and their love for the game is never in doubt. They just want what's fair. The criticism they get and the demands that are asked of them are both completely out of whack with what they get paid.

Give them the money they want need and the rest will take care of itself.....including a truly national draft which evens out the competition like its supposed too.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: northernblue on February 14, 2022, 12:29:41 am
Can’t we just sack the coach ?
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Thryleon on February 14, 2022, 06:23:04 am
Regardless of the type of women that want to play such is a whole other kettle of fish, I think you are misunderstanding my comments.

The diluted talent is not about the number of teams exactly, it's the location of those teams and how the draft works.

Adelaide are the strongest team in the comp and have been since the comp started.
Adelaide have access to every girl in SA and NT. Their 'draft' is simply picking the best players from that group and no other team can pick those players.

Add up all the players who they have access too and compare that to the amount of players from Victoria.
Now you have 8 teams in Victoria (including Geelong) who have to pick from that list.
Unless there are 8x more girls in Vic, simple maths shows you Adelaide will get a more talented/better list.

It's been similar for freo and Brisbane up until the recent introduction of West Coast and Gold Coast.

The talent is not evenly distributed across the aflw because the draft is not a national draft. It's essentially a state draft.

It's not about the overall standard, it's about the distribution of talent and the one sidedness that has created.

I understood your point.

I think you might have missed the fact that I made a different one.

Still you might not have.  The men's competition represents the top 700 men in the country irrespective of where they want to play their footy (plenty go home).  The women's competition is the top 700 women in the country.  Most of which are talented enough to earn a crust playing a different sport, and the pool those 700 come from is a much smaller pool, than the equivalent for males.

Thats my point.  The competition is too big.  The afl clubs have ruined the women's version because they all want to show how progressive they are.  
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 14, 2022, 06:48:31 am
I understood your point.

I think you might have missed the fact that I made a different one.

Still you might not have.  The men's competition represents the top 700 men in the country irrespective of where they want to play their footy (plenty go home).  The women's competition is the top 700 women in the country.  Most of which are talented enough to earn a crust playing a different sport, and the pool those 700 come from is a much smaller pool, than the equivalent for males.

Thats my point.  The competition is too big.  The afl clubs have ruined the women's version because they all want to show how progressive they are.  
It's not 700....it's currently 420 and it's not the best 420, it's the best....
30 from Adelaide/Nt
30 from nsw
60 from qld
60 from wa
240 from Vic.

It's state of origin with Vic having 8bof the 14 rep sides and trying to compete with SA who has 1.

Men's comp you can get drafted to a different state.
Women's, you have to choose to go....and if you do....it's usually because it's the only way you'll get a game because you're not good enough to be picked in your own state.


I understand your point about overall participation by comparison, and I think that girs without saying since 6 years ago there wasn't even a path for players to get paid.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on February 14, 2022, 07:53:46 am
I think fans can debate opportunity, experience and remuneration forever, the hard truth is if the girls try to emulate the men's game style and tactics they are doomed to be poorly evaluated, the AFLW needs to become something different, it's painfully obvious.

It doesn't matter if the sport is golf, basketball, soccer, surfing or AFL that is a fundamental reality.

I know what the players want, but it is also true that players do not always know what is best for them or the sport they play.

This doesn't mean I'm not an AFLW supporter, or I'm trying to talk the AFLW down, it is just a simple observable reality!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on February 14, 2022, 09:37:11 am
It's chicken and egg lods.

Does the standard get better and that leads to better pay
Or
Does better pay lead to a better standard.

....and which should come first.

The girls are starting to make a bit of noise about pay. Not that they think they deserve more for playing AFLW, but because in order for it to take the next step, the girls need some kind of security. 1 year contracts is the norm, with 2 year contracts the maximum possible and rare by comparison. Those 1 year contracts are basically for 6 months, they other 6 they don't get paid.....BUT....they are still expected to be elite athletes.

The afl dropped the ball when they canned the season mid finals 2 years ago.
You had girls busting their gut all year, play 7 or 8 games and then the afl pulls up stumps and you get nothing out of it. Postpone first, cancel as  last resort.

How can the girls take the next step with their commitment if the afl doesn't give them any?

Give them a proper season, give them an annual wage they can make work financially and the standard will magically improve....and it will grow the game where their salaries are covered, by the revenue aflw makes.

You hear the girls speak and their love for the game is never in doubt. They just want what's fair. The criticism they get and the demands that are asked of them are both completely out of whack with what they get paid.

Give them the money they want need and the rest will take care of itself.....including a truly national draft which evens out the competition like its supposed too.

I have no doubt that the women have a great love for the game.
I think what supporters want to see is a 'Sam Walsh' like love and commitment to the 'club' and their team-mates.

I suspect a big push for increased salary is probably coming from the older players.
They've been the pioneers, but the youngsters are coming thick and fast.
These older players have a limited playing time left and can probably see a situation where they run out of time before the big money is forthcoming.

I've never been a big fan of the draft.
I don't think it evens out a competition to a greater extent than a salary cap alone would.
The NRL seems to operate quite well on that basis...and you don't have the player retention issues that clubs like the Gold Coast and GWS have experienced under the draft structure.
But having said that there needs to be some improvement on the current state "zoning" type restrictions.

What these discussions are showing is that the AFLW is an evolving concept.
Where we're getting some disagreement is over the pace of that evolution and the form of the final product.

I tend to agree with LP's comments that the AFLW needs to develop some points of difference that improve the spectacle but keep the basic structure of the game.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 18, 2022, 08:57:42 pm
I tend to agree with LP's comments that the AFLW needs to develop some points of difference that improve the spectacle but keep the basic structure of the game.

The AFLW game has several points of difference, i'm not sure why he harps on about that.

- The girls only have 16 on the ground....a fair difference.....with 5 on the bench.

- The girls have a 'last touched/lasso' rule as well.

- The girls also have a deeper throw in as well, with boundary umpires throwing the ball in 15m from the boundary to bring the ball back into the corridor.

All of these drastically alter the way the game is played. Its a quicker, faster moving game that is played up and down the corridor. Its a much less defensive style because with less players, and no boundary line sanctuary there is less chance of stoppages and floods.

What other changes would people want to see that is different from the men? You can throw the ball to a teammate? Must do the splits before every goal?? Wave purple flags instead of white???
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 18, 2022, 09:04:13 pm
Just looking at the AFLW ladder

Carlton have played 6 games thus far.
Our 5 losses have been to 5 teams who are currently in the top 6 on the ladder.....the other team in there we play R10.

The 1 team we have played that is outside the finals is Geelong, and we looked a class above them......and we were never meant to even play them, we were meant to play the 8th placed bulldogs, who have played 1 less game and should be in 7th spot realistically.

To say we've had a hard draw is an understatement.

Sure, our season is still disappointing, but IMO we had the worst draft/trade period out there and it was to be expected.
There has been changes in the off-season to 'weed out' some of our issues and i think it could be detrimental to our development if we sack the coach right now. We'll see some improvement in the girls from here.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 19, 2022, 07:42:46 am
Just looking at the AFLW ladder

Carlton have played 6 games thus far.
Our 5 losses have been to 5 teams who are currently in the top 6 on the ladder.....the other team in there we play R10.

The 1 team we have played that is outside the finals is Geelong, and we looked a class above them......and we were never meant to even play them, we were meant to play the 8th placed bulldogs, who have played 1 less game and should be in 7th spot realistically.

To say we've had a hard draw is an understatement.

Sure, our season is still disappointing, but IMO we had the worst draft/trade period out there and it was to be expected.
There has been changes in the off-season to 'weed out' some of our issues and i think it could be detrimental to our development if we sack the coach right now. We'll see some improvement in the girls from here.
I would hazard a guess and say that those within the 4 walls of the organisation will accept none of those as reasons or excuses for poor performance. Few supporters should also, not saying the coach should be sacked but...
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on February 19, 2022, 11:07:38 am
I would hazard a guess and say that those within the 4 walls of the organisation will accept none of those as reasons or excuses for poor performance. Few supporters should also, not saying the coach should be sacked but...

Those within the 4 walls would know about the reasons for some of those players leaving....and should realise that its a thing of the past mostly.

They won't accept those reasons, and will probably sack the coach because of it.......doesn't mean its the right thing to do, its just the carlton thing to do.
People forget we were a basketcase when Half took over. He took us to a flag, and had us deep into finals the following year before the season was canned. He can coach, he has proven that.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Thryleon on February 19, 2022, 12:44:00 pm
Don't know why you would sack an AFLW coach at this stage.  Harf is well liked by the girls, committed and does ok except the last two years which is arguably more about the landscape of the competition changing a lot than anything he did or didn't do.  Losing talent every year is hard.  Newbies in every year is hard too.

Its not like there are a raft of big names out there wanting to coach.  You might look to a post footy star to become a coach but we are about 5 years off that happening.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on February 19, 2022, 01:36:07 pm
The main reason for a coach turn over is that a lack of success puts pressure on the admin/board through things like sponsors,  member and supporter expectations.
The lack of success builds up over the years.
It's even more intense when that extended period of 'failure' follows a bit of a golden era.

The factor in an AFLW coach's favour is that the expectations and subsequent pressure just aren't there yet.
It's the 'history' factor I mentioned earlier.
The majority of us 'don't care' enough...yet.
The pressure isn't there for change...They have the luxury of letting it play out a little longer.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on February 19, 2022, 01:40:05 pm
But is our lack of success a true and fair assessment of the past?

I suspect we were basically undone by COVID and could well have had a flag already if not for the way things turned out. Now, having had our best chances undone, the bias towards non-Melbourne based teams is greater than ever.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Thryleon on February 20, 2022, 03:22:36 pm
The main reason for a coach turn over is that a lack of success puts pressure on the admin/board through things like sponsors,  member and supporter expectations.
The lack of success builds up over the years.
It's even more intense when that extended period of 'failure' follows a bit of a golden era.

The factor in an AFLW coach's favour is that the expectations and subsequent pressure just aren't there yet.
It's the 'history' factor I mentioned earlier.
The majority of us 'don't care' enough...yet.
The pressure isn't there for change...They have the luxury of letting it play out a little longer.

That would be true of the mens, but in the womens game people are just happy seeing a womens competition, and it would take a significant coach to make someone like Harf get fired.

If Brendan Bolton wanted to coach the women, that might get the requisite attention.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: DJC on February 20, 2022, 04:09:45 pm
I think that Harf is safe, and so he should be.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on February 20, 2022, 06:40:05 pm
That would be true of the mens, but in the womens game people are just happy seeing a womens competition, and it would take a significant coach to make someone like Harf get fired.

If Brendan Bolton wanted to coach the women, that might get the requisite attention.

That was the point I was making.
There are different pressures and expectations for coaches and teams for the AFL and AFLW comps.
Coaches in the AFLW wont feel the (sometimes) extreme judgements an AFL coach faces.
It may come eventually, but while teams and lists remain so unsettled as the competition grows, most AFLW coaches can go about the job of team building without too many concerns.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: DJC on February 20, 2022, 07:37:33 pm
That was the point I was making.
There are different pressures and expectations for coaches and teams for the AFL and AFLW comps.
Coaches in the AFLW wont feel the (sometimes) extreme judgements an AFL coach faces.
It may come eventually, but while teams and lists remain so unsettled as the competition grows, most AFLW coaches can go about the job of team building without too many concerns.

I think that’s right Lods, but there have been some rapid departures, like Damien Keeping. 

I reckon there will be pressure on the AFLW to appoint female coaches before too much longer.  I don’t know whether there have been many female (or non-binary) participants in the level 4 program but that will happen.  Perhaps that will lead to a distinctive brand of footy 🤔
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: Lods on February 20, 2022, 09:21:12 pm
I think that’s right Lods, but there have been some rapid departures, like Damien Keeping. 

I reckon there will be pressure on the AFLW to appoint female coaches before too much longer.  I don’t know whether there have been many female (or non-binary) participants in the level 4 program but that will happen.  Perhaps that will lead to a distinctive brand of footy 🤔

Again....it's probably a long term thing.
The female coaches of tomorrow are probably running around in games this weekend.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on March 01, 2022, 10:30:16 am
I see Darcy Vescio is calling for some changes to take the AFLW to the next level, some of it is common sense and many of us have already stated that playing the girls game in summer is not conducive to a high quality competition.

Now I believe I am a relative AFLW booster compared to some, but I have to take exception to one assertion Vescio makes, and that is the AFLW needs to become paid full-time professionals to get better. It's a slap in the face for the vast majority of high quality male amateur competitions all over the country, competitions full of combatants that aren't paid or trained like the AFLW but easily exceed AFLW in terms of skill, consistency, tactics, implementation and output.

Please do not use a "we need more money" argument as an excuse for ordinary output or delayed progress, because there is nothing stopping female amateur competitions becoming as skilled and consistent as the men's competitions other than participation, time and commitment. The vast bulk of men or boys playing football do it for free!

I feel Darcy's call really is putting the cart before the horse, it is the artisan gets paid by the quality of the product not the apprentice!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on March 01, 2022, 07:48:51 pm
I see Darcy Vescio is calling for some changes to take the AFLW to the next level, some of it is common sense and many of us have already stated that playing the girls game in summer is not conducive to a high quality competition.

Now I believe I am a relative AFLW booster compared to some, but I have to take exception to one assertion Vescio makes, and that is the AFLW needs to become paid full-time professionals to get better. It's a slap in the face for the vast majority of high quality male amateur competitions all over the country, competitions full of combatants that aren't paid or trained like the AFLW but easily exceed AFLW in terms of skill, consistency, tactics, implementation and output.

Please do not use a "we need more money" argument as an excuse for ordinary output or delayed progress, because there is nothing stopping female amateur competitions becoming as skilled and consistent as the men's competitions other than participation, time and commitment. The vast bulk of men or boys playing football do it for free!

I feel Darcy's call really is putting the cart before the horse, it is the artisan gets paid by the quality of the product not the apprentice!
Its very much chicken and egg.
Pay them more, so they can commit more and the standard will go up.
If the standard goes up, they will get paid more.

re the highlighted part, with more money a lot of that will actually go away, and with the lack of money, it actually exacerbates that issue.

Especially in the current climate of game start times, game match days and game state locations(!) changing weekly, it makes life very difficult. The majority of girls have jobs outside of footy as a necessity. How many jobs offer the flexibility required to assist in a career in AFLW in the current climate? Plenty of workplaces simply couldn't accomodate the constant uncertainty that is required.

Take that up a level....what happens when a player gets injured? Lets say they do a knee? What does that do for their career?
Lets look at Nat Plane.
She would certainly be one of the lower paid players on the team. Too many stars above her.
She works a full time job as a landscape gardener. She basically does 8-10 hour days and off to training. Rinse, repeat.
If she did a knee, there goes her job just like that.....and not just like that, but like that for the next 12 months...and potentially her football career along with it!
Somewhat thankfully, albeit very worryingly when you think about it, she doesn't think about that on game day and puts her body on the line each and every time and will deal with the consequences later.

Obviously we lost Chloe Dalton because she could earn more money/satisfaction outside of AFLW circles (in rugby 7's) and we lost her as a result. If we gave her more uncertainty, she could still be with us, and potentially never sat out to begin with.

There are plenty of 'cross-coders' that play dual sports (and some as well as work/study on top) and their load can become so great that something needs to make way. Sometimes, that will be AFLW.

Now, all of the above can be wiped away with the stroke of a pen from the higher ups at AFL house.

Then all those questions about their passion, time and commitment magically go away....and the competition gets better as a result.


If the AFL couldn't afford it, they wouldn't be asking for it.

Gil and his 'sexy' $225mil marvel upgrade screens is a slap in the face to the girls.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on March 01, 2022, 08:01:06 pm
re the highlighted part, with more money a lot of that will actually go away, and with the lack of money, it actually exacerbates that issue.
99.999% of men / boys that play amateur footy have no expectation that they will play AFL, it's not part of reality or a motivation.

Women need amateur football standards to rise dramatically and quickly.
 
I thought Dalton left because her dream was to play for Australian Rugby in the Olympics, that is not for money!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on March 01, 2022, 08:07:40 pm
99.999% of men / boys that play footy have no expectation that they will play AFL, it's not part of reality or a motivation.

Women need amateur football standards to rise dramatically and quickly.
 
99.999% of  boys that play footy don't make it to the elite level, so their inclusion in any such debate is irrelevant.

But, the point you are attempting to make goes back to the chicken and the egg.
If you want participation of girls to go up, give them a reason to start playing. Show them a well run competition in which they can make a living and they are more likely to start playing than if it was for just 1 WB vs Melb game a year on tv.

The AFL put all this time and effort into get this competition up and running.....not they are hamstringing themselves by going half-ar$ed now.

Its like paying 100mil to get the Gold Coast Suns up and running, and then forcing them to pay their own way once they actually started playing games at AFL level. A decade later and the AFL is still propping them up with no end in sight. Why should the womens be any different?
The AFL always say expansion takes a generation to take hold...
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on March 01, 2022, 08:10:15 pm
99.999% of  boys that play footy don't make it to the elite level, so their inclusion in any such debate is irrelevant.
Yet, the playing standards, skills and tactics of those teams full of boys and men who do not make the grade are far beyond AFLW, they get no pay and it's not money that makes them better.

Arguing you are not getting better because you are not paid enough just exposes you are not playing for the right reasons.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on March 01, 2022, 08:10:42 pm
I thought Dalton left because her dream was to play for Australian Rugby in the Olympics, that is not for money!
Dream? She'd already won a gold medal.
She wanted another one.
She would've been getting more money from that than playing AFL.
What did gold medal winners get? 20k? That was probably 2 seasons of AFLW money for her that she could get as a bonus....and on top of whatever payments rugby (and sponsorship) was paying her.
It wasn't FOR money, but it included MORE money.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on March 01, 2022, 08:13:48 pm
Dream? She'd already won a gold medal.
She wanted another one.
She would've been getting more money from that than playing AFL.
What did gold medal winners get? 20k? That was probably 2 seasons of AFLW money for her that she could get as a bonus....and on top of whatever payments rugby (and sponsorship) was paying her.
It wasn't FOR money, but it included MORE money.
So you think one of the reasons Dalton played Australian Rugby for the gold medal loot, it's an absurd argument and ignorant of what it costs to be an Olympian!

I've read before that the swimmers need $10 in sponsors for every $1 they can earn just to get there!
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on March 01, 2022, 08:17:25 pm
So you think one of the reasons Dalton played Australian Rugby for the gold medal loot, it's an absurd argument and ignorant of what it costs to be an Olympian!

I've read before that the swimmers need $10 in sponsors for every $1 they can earn just to get there!
I think you need to reread before you go off half cocked.

Quote
Obviously we lost Chloe Dalton because she could earn more money/satisfaction outside of AFLW circles (in rugby 7's) and we lost her as a result. If we gave her more uncertainty, she could still be with us, and potentially never sat out to begin with.
The satisfaction is the gold medal....thats what she was chasing....as i said, it also come with more money. So why would she stay?

Implication being, if we paid her MORE money to stay in the AFLW, then perhaps that would override the 'money/satisfaction' combination and she wouldn't have left. As it stands, it was never in doubt.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on March 01, 2022, 09:00:33 pm
I think you need to reread before you go off half cocked.
I read all of what you wrote, your closing sentence doesn't erase the rest of what you wrote.

It costs most of the athletes far more than they ever earn in reward, a handful, just a few go onto post Olympic Corporate careers, but very very few profit or even break even.

While they want to win, they aren't arrogant enough to think they are guaranteed the token rewards that comes with a slight chance of gold!

Your argument is just absurd, you didn't think about it before your wrote it, and now your trying to drive the bus over the dying remnants of respectability.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on March 02, 2022, 06:23:38 pm
I read all of what you wrote, your closing sentence doesn't erase the rest of what you wrote.

It costs most of the athletes far more than they ever earn in reward, a handful, just a few go onto post Olympic Corporate careers, but very very few profit or even break even.

While they want to win, they aren't arrogant enough to think they are guaranteed the token rewards that comes with a slight chance of gold!

Your argument is just absurd, you didn't think about it before your wrote it, and now your trying to drive the bus over the dying remnants of respectability.

I've written the same thing several different times throughout the site. It's relatively public knowledge. If you got a different meaning from it, thats on you.
You can't paraphrase a sentence which ignores key parts of that sentence and start an argument.

Even if you want to continue down this path and nitpick an irrelevent point, the overall point holds true. She didn't leave because of Half.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on April 02, 2022, 04:01:24 pm
Dees made it through reigning premiers Brisbane today by 4 points.

How did star recruit Tayla Harris go?
3 touches. 0 goals.
Least amount of touches on the ground.

All the talent in the world, but can't put it together when it counts.
She'll have 1 more match next week to prove the doubters wrong.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: crashlander on April 02, 2022, 08:07:37 pm
Dees made it through reigning premiers Brisbane today by 4 points.

How did star recruit Tayla Harris go?
3 touches. 0 goals.
Least amount of touches on the ground.

All the talent in the world, but can't put it together when it counts.
She'll have 1 more match next week to prove the doubters wrong.
Somehow I think she will disappoint. But I hope not. I really dislike Adelaide.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: LP on April 09, 2022, 01:02:41 pm
Harris not doing much in the GF, but I have to say the Crows basically throw themselves to ground whenever they get contact from Harris and they get given a free.

It's like the reverse of Prespakis being smashed week after week and not getting a free kick.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: ianh on April 10, 2022, 10:50:17 am
An exchange over at Talking Carlton re the B& F


ianh wrote:
Had the pleasure of attending the AFLW B&F last night which was again held at the Aviary at Crown. Last year was a cocktail style event (minus the cocktails dammit) but this year they went all out and provided a 3 course meal. In my view far better as you got to meet others at your table (unless of course you booked a whole table) whilst still being able to mingle and catch up with familiar faces. My daughter is due any day now and there was a chance that she might be induced this week, so we didn't know if we would be attending until Tuesday, then discovered tickets had stopped selling on the Monday - presumably so numbers could be finalised for catering. Lucky I have Diesel's number and all got sorted out pretty quickly w3hen he intervened. As a bonus got to thank him directly on the night and have a good chat.

The night was as enjoyable as these sorts of things can be. The count itself is always a bit tiresome but this time there3 was an early bolter in Harrington and a lot rush from Prespakis to keep the count interesting at least. And Mimi the Magnificent (not to be confused with our new car Mimi the MGnificent) came home with a rush that suggests with as full season she probably would have taken the prize from them. And the event was well hosted, Harford though he went on a long while was nevertheless entertaining and informative and Mua kept the crowd entertained.

The players were very available to the fans for a chat, a photo and a genuine thankfulness for the support the fans are giving to the program.

All in all a great night and well worth the $190/head.

Lastly and by no means least noticed that Maddie Prespakis had 2 guests with her both being Brisbane players. I wonder what that might mean - are they possibly coming to the Blues? Are all 3 headed to Essendon****? Will watch that space with interest.


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Thanks Ian... More of a wordsmith than me
:thumbsup:

Go Blues


I went to the B&F Thursday night
And I'm convinced that the future is bright
With Mimi the Great
And the brain under Harford's bald pate
They'll make all the others look crape.
Title: Re: AFLW 2022
Post by: kruddler on April 10, 2022, 02:03:33 pm
For those who don't know, Maddy P and Georgia Gee are very close. They have matching tattoos that say "Velcro" which is the nickname their teammates gave them because they are always found together.

I'd like to think that money isn't everything with Maddy, with that in mind, i doubt she'd get up and leave because of the coach, the players or the club....so as long as we don't insult her by giving her unders, i think she'll be in Navy Blue next season.