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Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #75
Don't know why you would sack an AFLW coach at this stage.  Harf is well liked by the girls, committed and does ok except the last two years which is arguably more about the landscape of the competition changing a lot than anything he did or didn't do.  Losing talent every year is hard.  Newbies in every year is hard too.

Its not like there are a raft of big names out there wanting to coach.  You might look to a post footy star to become a coach but we are about 5 years off that happening.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #76
The main reason for a coach turn over is that a lack of success puts pressure on the admin/board through things like sponsors,  member and supporter expectations.
The lack of success builds up over the years.
It's even more intense when that extended period of 'failure' follows a bit of a golden era.

The factor in an AFLW coach's favour is that the expectations and subsequent pressure just aren't there yet.
It's the 'history' factor I mentioned earlier.
The majority of us 'don't care' enough...yet.
The pressure isn't there for change...They have the luxury of letting it play out a little longer.

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #77
But is our lack of success a true and fair assessment of the past?

I suspect we were basically undone by COVID and could well have had a flag already if not for the way things turned out. Now, having had our best chances undone, the bias towards non-Melbourne based teams is greater than ever.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #78
The main reason for a coach turn over is that a lack of success puts pressure on the admin/board through things like sponsors,  member and supporter expectations.
The lack of success builds up over the years.
It's even more intense when that extended period of 'failure' follows a bit of a golden era.

The factor in an AFLW coach's favour is that the expectations and subsequent pressure just aren't there yet.
It's the 'history' factor I mentioned earlier.
The majority of us 'don't care' enough...yet.
The pressure isn't there for change...They have the luxury of letting it play out a little longer.

That would be true of the mens, but in the womens game people are just happy seeing a womens competition, and it would take a significant coach to make someone like Harf get fired.

If Brendan Bolton wanted to coach the women, that might get the requisite attention.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #79
I think that Harf is safe, and so he should be.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #80
That would be true of the mens, but in the womens game people are just happy seeing a womens competition, and it would take a significant coach to make someone like Harf get fired.

If Brendan Bolton wanted to coach the women, that might get the requisite attention.

That was the point I was making.
There are different pressures and expectations for coaches and teams for the AFL and AFLW comps.
Coaches in the AFLW wont feel the (sometimes) extreme judgements an AFL coach faces.
It may come eventually, but while teams and lists remain so unsettled as the competition grows, most AFLW coaches can go about the job of team building without too many concerns.

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #81
That was the point I was making.
There are different pressures and expectations for coaches and teams for the AFL and AFLW comps.
Coaches in the AFLW wont feel the (sometimes) extreme judgements an AFL coach faces.
It may come eventually, but while teams and lists remain so unsettled as the competition grows, most AFLW coaches can go about the job of team building without too many concerns.

I think that’s right Lods, but there have been some rapid departures, like Damien Keeping. 

I reckon there will be pressure on the AFLW to appoint female coaches before too much longer.  I don’t know whether there have been many female (or non-binary) participants in the level 4 program but that will happen.  Perhaps that will lead to a distinctive brand of footy 🤔
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #82
I think that’s right Lods, but there have been some rapid departures, like Damien Keeping. 

I reckon there will be pressure on the AFLW to appoint female coaches before too much longer.  I don’t know whether there have been many female (or non-binary) participants in the level 4 program but that will happen.  Perhaps that will lead to a distinctive brand of footy 🤔

Again....it's probably a long term thing.
The female coaches of tomorrow are probably running around in games this weekend.

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #83
I see Darcy Vescio is calling for some changes to take the AFLW to the next level, some of it is common sense and many of us have already stated that playing the girls game in summer is not conducive to a high quality competition.

Now I believe I am a relative AFLW booster compared to some, but I have to take exception to one assertion Vescio makes, and that is the AFLW needs to become paid full-time professionals to get better. It's a slap in the face for the vast majority of high quality male amateur competitions all over the country, competitions full of combatants that aren't paid or trained like the AFLW but easily exceed AFLW in terms of skill, consistency, tactics, implementation and output.

Please do not use a "we need more money" argument as an excuse for ordinary output or delayed progress, because there is nothing stopping female amateur competitions becoming as skilled and consistent as the men's competitions other than participation, time and commitment. The vast bulk of men or boys playing football do it for free!

I feel Darcy's call really is putting the cart before the horse, it is the artisan gets paid by the quality of the product not the apprentice!
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #84
I see Darcy Vescio is calling for some changes to take the AFLW to the next level, some of it is common sense and many of us have already stated that playing the girls game in summer is not conducive to a high quality competition.

Now I believe I am a relative AFLW booster compared to some, but I have to take exception to one assertion Vescio makes, and that is the AFLW needs to become paid full-time professionals to get better. It's a slap in the face for the vast majority of high quality male amateur competitions all over the country, competitions full of combatants that aren't paid or trained like the AFLW but easily exceed AFLW in terms of skill, consistency, tactics, implementation and output.

Please do not use a "we need more money" argument as an excuse for ordinary output or delayed progress, because there is nothing stopping female amateur competitions becoming as skilled and consistent as the men's competitions other than participation, time and commitment. The vast bulk of men or boys playing football do it for free!

I feel Darcy's call really is putting the cart before the horse, it is the artisan gets paid by the quality of the product not the apprentice!
Its very much chicken and egg.
Pay them more, so they can commit more and the standard will go up.
If the standard goes up, they will get paid more.

re the highlighted part, with more money a lot of that will actually go away, and with the lack of money, it actually exacerbates that issue.

Especially in the current climate of game start times, game match days and game state locations(!) changing weekly, it makes life very difficult. The majority of girls have jobs outside of footy as a necessity. How many jobs offer the flexibility required to assist in a career in AFLW in the current climate? Plenty of workplaces simply couldn't accomodate the constant uncertainty that is required.

Take that up a level....what happens when a player gets injured? Lets say they do a knee? What does that do for their career?
Lets look at Nat Plane.
She would certainly be one of the lower paid players on the team. Too many stars above her.
She works a full time job as a landscape gardener. She basically does 8-10 hour days and off to training. Rinse, repeat.
If she did a knee, there goes her job just like that.....and not just like that, but like that for the next 12 months...and potentially her football career along with it!
Somewhat thankfully, albeit very worryingly when you think about it, she doesn't think about that on game day and puts her body on the line each and every time and will deal with the consequences later.

Obviously we lost Chloe Dalton because she could earn more money/satisfaction outside of AFLW circles (in rugby 7's) and we lost her as a result. If we gave her more uncertainty, she could still be with us, and potentially never sat out to begin with.

There are plenty of 'cross-coders' that play dual sports (and some as well as work/study on top) and their load can become so great that something needs to make way. Sometimes, that will be AFLW.

Now, all of the above can be wiped away with the stroke of a pen from the higher ups at AFL house.

Then all those questions about their passion, time and commitment magically go away....and the competition gets better as a result.


If the AFL couldn't afford it, they wouldn't be asking for it.

Gil and his 'sexy' $225mil marvel upgrade screens is a slap in the face to the girls.

 

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #85
re the highlighted part, with more money a lot of that will actually go away, and with the lack of money, it actually exacerbates that issue.
99.999% of men / boys that play amateur footy have no expectation that they will play AFL, it's not part of reality or a motivation.

Women need amateur football standards to rise dramatically and quickly.
 
I thought Dalton left because her dream was to play for Australian Rugby in the Olympics, that is not for money!
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #86
99.999% of men / boys that play footy have no expectation that they will play AFL, it's not part of reality or a motivation.

Women need amateur football standards to rise dramatically and quickly.
 
99.999% of  boys that play footy don't make it to the elite level, so their inclusion in any such debate is irrelevant.

But, the point you are attempting to make goes back to the chicken and the egg.
If you want participation of girls to go up, give them a reason to start playing. Show them a well run competition in which they can make a living and they are more likely to start playing than if it was for just 1 WB vs Melb game a year on tv.

The AFL put all this time and effort into get this competition up and running.....not they are hamstringing themselves by going half-ar$ed now.

Its like paying 100mil to get the Gold Coast Suns up and running, and then forcing them to pay their own way once they actually started playing games at AFL level. A decade later and the AFL is still propping them up with no end in sight. Why should the womens be any different?
The AFL always say expansion takes a generation to take hold...

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #87
99.999% of  boys that play footy don't make it to the elite level, so their inclusion in any such debate is irrelevant.
Yet, the playing standards, skills and tactics of those teams full of boys and men who do not make the grade are far beyond AFLW, they get no pay and it's not money that makes them better.

Arguing you are not getting better because you are not paid enough just exposes you are not playing for the right reasons.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #88
I thought Dalton left because her dream was to play for Australian Rugby in the Olympics, that is not for money!
Dream? She'd already won a gold medal.
She wanted another one.
She would've been getting more money from that than playing AFL.
What did gold medal winners get? 20k? That was probably 2 seasons of AFLW money for her that she could get as a bonus....and on top of whatever payments rugby (and sponsorship) was paying her.
It wasn't FOR money, but it included MORE money.

Re: AFLW 2022

Reply #89
Dream? She'd already won a gold medal.
She wanted another one.
She would've been getting more money from that than playing AFL.
What did gold medal winners get? 20k? That was probably 2 seasons of AFLW money for her that she could get as a bonus....and on top of whatever payments rugby (and sponsorship) was paying her.
It wasn't FOR money, but it included MORE money.
So you think one of the reasons Dalton played Australian Rugby for the gold medal loot, it's an absurd argument and ignorant of what it costs to be an Olympian!

I've read before that the swimmers need $10 in sponsors for every $1 they can earn just to get there!
The Force Awakens!