Kruddler, it's the magnitude of the difference that is important not the fact that there was a difference. As I understand it, really only 1/3 of the track is the important part, and in that 1/3 Button lost 7s. It cannot be shyness from Button, he drives at Monaco as you have pointed out which is as tight and as scary as any circuit they will ever encounter!
Anyway, you cannot change my opinions as they are formed from listening to industry insiders talk about it. And I am not qualified to argue the intricate details, I do not know them and I am not even sure they are publicly available. The figures released were through the event sponsor and are listed as unofficial. All I know is people involved with the teams and racing at the time had their media face on and were "Very Diplomatic" about the situation.
Turn 2 to turn 18 is your 1/3. Clear to see that there is SFA in the other 2/3's.
You call the difference 'shyness'?
Here is why Button might have some 'shyness'
Again, you learn the track before you push to the extreme. If you get something wrong, the above occurs.
You say button isn't shy around Monaco? No $hit....because he knows the track....which is why i said put lowndes around there given the same conditions and you won't see a 7s gap unless it's the other way.
So, your mates were suprised. Bully for them. IF this magical times you speak of are correct, it is not surprising to me and are easily explainable as i've discussed. You don't know any better and simply listen to your mate. Good for you. Pass the above info onto them and see what they have to say about it
Are you claiming Lowndes cannot drive an open wheeler on an empty track that he knows well?
Both drivers, that is both, smashed the Bathurst Lap record in the F1 within 0.3s of each other, while Button almost failed to qualify in the V8!
BTW, I've just checked with my associate. He tells me Button actually set the whole event up for Vodaphone and is a keen follower of Bathurst. He was going like a bat out of hell to beat Lowndes, he just wasn't quick enough!
Yes, button did know of the track in the above video.
Has he driven on it before? No.
He wasn't quick enough. No $hit. I've told you why that is the case!
What he did say in that video is that usually he can get a track within a few laps, but a track like this he needs at least half a day. Oh, thats like exactly what i was saying. Bathurst is simply a complete b!tch of a track to drive on. You need time to learn how to drive on it. He never had it. Lowndes did.
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Are you claiming Lowndes cannot drive an open wheeler on an empty track that he knows well?
No, i have never suggested anything even remotely close to this.
I've met Craig Lowndes before, had a chat and got his autograph. I've actually worked briefly with his brother. I've got more respect for Lowndes than just about any other V8 driver in history. This has got nothing to do with Lowndes.
I have no particularly affinity to Button. It is not about him either.
The fact Lowndes could actually drive the thing to begin with is amazing. The fact Button had the balls to go as fast as he did as soon as he did in both cars in extremely courageous.
The simple fact is, it is NOT a level playing field.
1 guy has his favourite car completely setup for his favourite track 1 guy has a car similar to his own but has never driven on the track before. Swap and you still get 1 guy in a car that handles better than any car he's ever driven, on his favourite track. 1 guy in a car that handles worse than any car he's ever driven, on a track he's never driven before.
Do the same thing on a track they are equally adept at, say Albert Park, and it will be more of a level playing field.
You don't have to accept it. Doesn't make it wrong because you don't though.
Point i was making with the numbers is that being familiar with the track is as important as being familiar with the car. Especially at a place like Bathurst.
You are a self confessed novice. So when you talk about settings on mario kart i think novice is an overestimation.
There is a reason why F1 drivers do countless hours in a simulator. Playing those 'video games' to learn a track is a very helpful tool that can not be underestimated. These things are worth millions for a reason. However, despite that, more than a couple of F1 drivers have openly said they have learned new tracks from the PS3/PS4 before arriving at a new circuit that has just been built.
Why do footy players practice a game plan? Why can't they simply study it on paper and execute it on game day?
So where did the 7s go, if you are claiming down force was an issue it means the straights are out of the consideration, so now those 7s must have been across the top, so that becomes 7s out of what say 50s? It's an even bigger difference, you've made it look even worse for Button!
Keep in mind the F1 car they drove was modified to allow running at Bathurst, it was raised, so it had lower down force yet the driver lap times nearly matched.
The sprint / distance analogy is irrelevant.
The people I know were shocked at the timings, they would have had access to splits that are not available in the public 3 sector timings. They were very diplomatic because one of their major sponsors was one of Buttons sponsors and the sponsor had arranged the whole gig.
Really? Still struggling with this.
Button drives 1. A V8 car that has next to no downforce compared to anything he has driven over the past 15 years. 2. He drives a MODIFIED F1 car that has less downforce than he is used to. - He drives them on a track he has never seen. - He drives themon a track that is extremely difficult and extremely unforgiving Track experience 0/10 Car experience 1/5 (V8) and 3/5 (F1) = 4/10 TOTAL = 4/20
Lowndes drives... 1. His own V8 which he has been driving for 20 years setup to perfection to his liking 2. A MODIFIED F1 car that has more downforce than anything he has ever driven - He drives both on a track he has done 1000's of laps on if not 10,000's. - He knows every bump and every inch of that track. Where to push, when to hold steady. Track experience 10/10 Car experience 5/5 and 1/5 = 6/10
TOTAL = 16/20
Where did button lose time? The same place lowndes made up time, top of the mountain....which in this case, includes everything from turn 2 to conrod.
There are blind turns and off camber turns over bumps all with a barrier inches from the tarmac. The toughest conditions for a driver to get up to speed in immediately.
Oh, so you know people who were shocked? Good for you. Perhaps after they sat down and realised that.... a) Button was at an extreme disadvantage compared to Lowndes b) Button hasn't really got a lot to prove to the rev-heads on the mountain and would just be happy to walk away with his life in tact.
It doesn't explain 7 seconds, especially after both drivers had practice sessions..
FYI, Lowndes actually offered the same excuse for Button to the media, but behind the scenes sentiment was very different. I know this because I have business associates who drive, engineer and manage one of the major domestic teams. Two of them spent almost a decade in F1 as part of a race crew. One was a chief engineer and the other a pit manager. As much as I appreciate your simulator experience I think I'll trust their opinion.
It doesn't explain 7 seconds? BS.
You mentioned Top gear in an earlier post. Go back and watch the episode involving the nurburgring (well, one of a couple). How much time does everyone shave off their times after their first times around there? Once you get to know the track, time starts falling off. Lowndes, if he is like most aussie drivers, has grown up watching bathurst his whole life and knows every inch of the track. You don't think thats worth 7 seconds compared to someone who has never even seen it? Keep in mind there is very little runoff areas to help you if something goes wrong.
BTW, Buttons driving style is somewhat conservative, easy on the tyres. Not used to throwing cars around like the V8 drivers
I don't mind the quiet cars and technology as long as there is racing. The "formula" part of F1 barely exists anymore, contrast racing in F1 with racing in other categories there is no comparison. Even Hamilton was recently quoted as stating F1 is boring.
Senna had the right idea years ago, remove most of the technology and leave it up to driver skills, then you get racing. Soon they will be able to replace the F1 drivers with robots and you will barely notice a difference!
In any case F1 is no longer the regime for the worlds best drivers, because you only get a drive if you can bring $50M~$100M to the team plus sponsors.
I recall at Bathhurst there was a drive off between Button and Lowndes, a modified F1 car and a touring car with drivers swapping. After a few laps Lowndes was within 0.3s of Button, after just as many laps in the touring car Button was still 7s adrift of Lowndes time. It was very diplomatically reported!
Reminds me of when some celebs on Top Gear almost match times with F1 drivers, hard to believe but it happens.
OK, last line first. They never compete in the same cars, so not sure where you have drawn that comparison.
Button vs Lowndes... Was unaware of that ever happening, but i reckon that says more about the bathurst track than anything else. Put the same cars at Monaco and Lowndes wouldn't be able to finish a lap in the F1 car.
re Senna... Courtesy of his death, there was a real shift to make the sport safer....and it worked. Up until last year with the delayed death of Jules Bianchi, nobody had died since Senna in an unparalled improvement in the sport.
It was a disaster yesterday, they had to scrap it.
It WAS a disaster, but i think the teams are mostly to blame for that.
They simply did not send ther drivers out at the right time.
Its pretty simple. Every 90 seconds a guy gets eliminated. Thats how long it takes to do a lap. You need to do 2 (out lap + hot lap) which is 3 minutes.
If you are next to be eliminated and you are in the pits, too bad. If you are the the one to be eliminated after the next one and you are in the pits. Too bad. If there are 2 drivers between you and the 'elimination bubble' get your butt out on the track immediately, otherwise you will essentially be gone too in a minute or so. If there are 3 drivers between you and the 'elimination bubble get your butt on the track immediately, otherwise as the guy above you doing a hit lap can put you out in a minute or so. etc...
Teams need to think at least 3 minutes ahead. They weren't.
Why Ferrari decided to sit out the last 5 minutes or so was a weird decision. If it was simply to save tyres for the race, let them have more tyres for qualifying.
A lot of the issues can be fixed if the teams wise up to what is going on, and they are allowed extra sets of tyres.
What do we think of the new Quali elimination format? I loved it until the last 4 mins. I was expecting a final shootout but tyre limitations ended Q3 with 3 mins remaining. Anticlimactic to say the least.
The commentators certainly let their feelings be known.
Personally i think the idea of it is awesome.
Unfortunately it appears some of the teams have very little idea of how it works. Too many times they sent drivers out too late meaning they simply wasted a set of tyres for nothing.
Agree about places like SPA though, when the 90 sec limit is pretty stupid....and even the 5 minutes before someone is eliminated in Q3 is pretty stupid. You ould have the scenario that in a wet Q3, not 1 car has actually got around their outlap and completed their hot lap before drivers are starting to get eliminated!
Under the current setup, is there really any need to have it split up over 3 mini qualifying sessions anyway?
Needs a rethink, but i'm not sure it will get a chance. I suspect it may be a one off.
Krudds, in his second season(2011) he played Bullants midfield and average nearly 40 possessions. He was named amongst the best in 13 out of 17 games, and played four other rounds in the AFL. Fitness was not an issue, our clubs perception of him was the big problem. I remember late in 2011 Ratten talking about him when asked by media at a post match press conference, I don't recall the exact words but Ratten inferred they should have trusted McLean's football ability and played him at AFL level sooner.
In his 4 appearances he couldn't get more than 17 touches. Shows you the difference between VFL and AFL level. He couldn't do what he was doing in the VFL at AFL level because he wasn't 'AFL fit'.
An unfit AFL footballer is still a fit VFL player.
In any event, the point i was making is that, at the time, McLean didn't have too many people in his corner. I think he was on everyones hit list on who should get the flick at years end.
In hindsight, we can see that he had plenty more to give. When we got him, he was stuffed. Took 2 years to shake that tag before it pays off.
Will history repeat itself with daisy? Time will tell.
