http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-speedster-chris-yarran-says-blues-out-to-revive-their-season-after-sloppy-start/story-fni5f5nx-1226913787132
CARLTON speedster Chris Yarran has blamed complacency for early-season failures as the Blues face a finals eliminator against bogy side St Kilda.
The Saints are gunning for third successive Monday night upset win over the Blues, who are staring at a 2-6 start if they lose tonight.
In a candid assessment of the team’s poor starts, Yarran said the Blues’ attitude had hurt them.
“We didn’t turn up (with) the right attitude against Melbourne, we just assumed we would go out there and win and got our pants pulled down,” Yarran told the Herald Sun.
“Same with Essendon and Collingwood. I just don’t know how it happens. We just have to avoid bad starts.
“We have to win against St Kilda and give ourselves some momentum going into the break. Sometimes we play better when we are up against the ropes.”
Carlton refused to give up on its September aspirations, hopeful the team’s fortunes will improve as key players regain fitness following an injury-marred off-season.
Assistant coach Dean Laidley yesterday revealed he was “taken aback” by the 18 off-season surgeries to key players.
“That’s really hurt us,” Laidley said on 3AW.
“We didn’t have a lot of players doing a lot of work preseason. They are starting to get match hardened now.”
They thought they were going to win?????
It's 11 on the premiership clock, who's fault was that?
Yarran Blames Malthouse For Losses. :))
Is 18 the number?
Why would you assume you're going to win when you're this group? How many times does this need to happen before they click?
Is 18 the number?
Why would you assume you're going to win when you're this group? How many times does this need to happen before they click?
No it's 22, no it's 6, no, wait it's NFI
How many players didn't make it to Arizona? Any players that made it to Arizona do not have the excuse of off season surgery, they should be ready to play.
I'm glad someone from the club has said something straight for once. None of this, "We're close to our window", "We're so far off the pace", "It's 11 o'clock" crapola.
They thought they were going to win?????
This in itself reeks of arrogance.
That being said, its not often you hear a quote from Chris Yarran, perhaps the boys are starting to learn a thing or two...
Is 18 the number?
Why would you assume you're going to win when you're this group? How many times does this need to happen before they click?
No it's 22, no it's 6, no, wait it's NFI
It was 18 at the end of last season but we had further injuries in the off season. It's not too difficult to understand if you use your brain.
Is 18 the number?
Why would you assume you're going to win when you're this group? How many times does this need to happen before they click?
No it's 22, no it's 6, no, wait it's NFI
It was 18 at the end of last season but we had further injuries in the off season. It's not too difficult to understand if you use your brain.
:)) What for when can I just accept everything the club tells me like you. "Use your brain", good one ::)
Next Tuesday is expected to see the entire Carlton list back in full training ahead of February's NAB Challenge.
The Blues had close to 20 players undergo post-season surgery, including ruckman Matthew Kreuzer (foot), Andrew Carrazzo (calf) and Chris Judd (wrist/elbow).
All three players missed the club's trip to Arizona – led by new high performance manager David Buttifant, who arrived from Collingwood to join Mick Malthouse in September – as they overcame their complaints.
New recruit Dale Thomas has also been carefully managed as he rehabilitates the ankle that wrecked his 2013.
He was late to the US trip as he was kept from the early hikes but joined his new teammates after the first week.
The Blues have already said they are bullish about their chances of having a full list to pick from for their first home and away game against Port Adelaide on March 16.
Earlier on Thursday, Thomas told the club's website his body was feeling the best it had for two years after a few weeks of training.
The players held a skills session on Thursday morning at Visy Park, with the list split into three groups.
Robbie Warnock, Cameron Wood and Kreuzer were all involved as were captain Marc Murphy, Carrazzo, Judd and Thomas.
So Judd, Carrazzo and Kreuzer all have excuses, the rest do not. More BS trotted out by the club.
The club stated 18 injuries back in October last year, if you think they deliberately inflated the numbers in case things go pear shaped 7 or 8 months later then good for you.
Complacency....WTF????
I blame talent and ability....we dont have enough.
I blame talent and ability....we dont have enough.
Yarran is right though... We had enough talent to beat Melbourne...
It all between the ears and has been for very very very long time.
For us to beat the best sides, we need improvement in talent and ability , and for the existing players who already have it, they need to improve their attitude and thought process.
The club stated 18 injuries back in October last year, if you think they deliberately inflated the numbers in case things go pear shaped 7 or 8 months later then good for you.
So they took injured players to Arizona.
That's poor management.
The club stated 18 injuries back in October last year, if you think they deliberately inflated the numbers in case things go pear shaped 7 or 8 months later then good for you.
So they took injured players to Arizona.
That's poor management.
You don't know what each player was doing in Arizona.
You don't know what each player was doing in Arizona.
They were having the most intense preseason in the history of the universe and only allowed to practice their skills in the snow.
Anyway, what this article says is from a player perspective - it's complacency in the group which is the contributing factor. Yarran lets out some interesting stuff at times. He'll probably get another talking to.
The club stated 18 injuries back in October last year, if you think they deliberately inflated the numbers in case things go pear shaped 7 or 8 months later then good for you.
So they took injured players to Arizona.
That's poor management.
Daisy went to arizona, but he didn't do the canyon hikes etc from memory... Do we really think our club would make injured players train and do things they weren't up to. Seriously.??
There was a big group who stayed back and trained in the altitude room... Its all on the website...
The club stated 18 injuries back in October last year, if you think they deliberately inflated the numbers in case things go pear shaped 7 or 8 months later then good for you.
So they took injured players to Arizona.
That's poor management.
Daisy went to arizona, but he didn't do the canyon hikes etc from memory... Do we really think our club would make injured players train and do things they weren't up to. Seriously.??
There was a big group who stayed back and trained in the altitude room... Its all on the website...
So all that went to Arizona other than Daisy were ready to go. No excuses for this year.
The club stated 18 injuries back in October last year, if you think they deliberately inflated the numbers in case things go pear shaped 7 or 8 months later then good for you.
So they took injured players to Arizona.
That's poor management.
Daisy went to arizona, but he didn't do the canyon hikes etc from memory... Do we really think our club would make injured players train and do things they weren't up to. Seriously.??
There was a big group who stayed back and trained in the altitude room... Its all on the website...
Exactly. So either 37 players were fit in November or they weren't.
Which one is it?
The club stated 18 injuries back in October last year, if you think they deliberately inflated the numbers in case things go pear shaped 7 or 8 months later then good for you.
So they took injured players to Arizona.
That's poor management.
Daisy went to arizona, but he didn't do the canyon hikes etc from memory... Do we really think our club would make injured players train and do things they weren't up to. Seriously.??
There was a big group who stayed back and trained in the altitude room... Its all on the website...
So all that went to Arizona other than Daisy were ready to go. No excuses for this year.
Hendo
Kreuzer,
Daisy (one week only)
Casboult (1 week only)
Yarran
Buckley
Scotland
Judd
Bootsma
Lucas
Carrazzo.
Thats a fair list.
Armfield has also been injured, Walker missed some pre season games, Judd hasn't seen it.
17 players had post season surgery according to this article. We know the high profile players who went down in Jan and Feb so that number becomes 20+
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2014-01-14/blues-on-the-mend
31 went to Arizona
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2013-12-06/blues-arrive-in-arizona
I don't even know what is in debate here?
Ahhhh but didnt you say they were doing work in the altitude room at home. Judd stayed because of his child. So did Carrazzo.
It's all on the website :-)
So it's not the list now it's injuries?
37 it was. There is a thread where we counted who was there.
Surgeries is one thing but in November we had the full squad training badically.
The excuses from the club just keep coming.
The club stated 18 injuries back in October last year, if you think they deliberately inflated the numbers in case things go pear shaped 7 or 8 months later then good for you.
So they took injured players to Arizona.
That's poor management.
Daisy went to arizona, but he didn't do the canyon hikes etc from memory... Do we really think our club would make injured players train and do things they weren't up to. Seriously.??
There was a big group who stayed back and trained in the altitude room... Its all on the website...
Exactly. So either 37 players were fit in November or they weren't.
Which one is it?
Are you serious?? ... Because players are doing weights or riding bikes in a training room doesn't mean they are AFL fit... If they cant run during the off season, its a big dent to their fitness base. Do you really think we had 37 fit players? I swear this site is becoming unbelievable.. So much so Im finding to hard to come on here half as much as I used to... You do realise we got some injuries after they got back from Arizona also..
If you and Carrots think that our pre season involves just doing two weeks in Arizona and all who took part have no excuses, it shows how far apart we are on thinking, and its really no use continuing this absurd conversation. Even a pro like Judd needs two or three praccies before he is match hardened and this is a guy who ticks every box in the pre season......
So it's not the list now it's injuries?
37 it was. There is a thread where we counted who was there.
Surgeries is one thing but in November we had the full squad training badically.
The excuses from the club just keep coming.
The articles are from before the season started so how are they excuses. I picked Port to beat is in rd 1 because our players were underdone. I wrote it in the prematch thread before ROUND 1!!!! Not excuses, they are facts.
So I ask you Jamie.
We spent nearly $800k to send players to Arizona, in high altitude environments, on pressurized aircraft for 24 hours each way in sub zero temperatures do they could sit and ride bikes...
So again is it poor management?
It's just a question.
Facts are in November 3 months before the start of the season we had a huge squad ( more than the previous year) and a lot of guys doing work at home.
Yes there are other injuries but we were talkig about pos season surgeries not other injuries which happen to all clubs?
Here is my quote before rd 1
You guys are confident, I'm not. I'll be happy with a win.
I've picked Port, we were pretty much even with them last season and we haven't had the best preparation with most of our best players under injury clouds.
Doing work when you have an injury will usually mean you cant work on a certain area... For example a leg injury... Well you cant run so you will do weights, maybe bike for cardio and rowing..
Yr hardly going to go for 10km runs or practice kicking... Like I said, some of you guys will find everything possible to blame Mick for so go ahead, im over it.. A lot of the things people are now blaming him for go way past being his fault... I know most want him gone, and want him gone yesterday.. So now he is getting blamed for injuries and surgeries. If he was working the players too hard (ala Essendon under peptide program), then yes I'd blame him, but Butters is clearly competent in his job.... Do people think the guy Ratten employed would have had them any fitter, with less surgeries etc, or is it all Micks fault because he employed Butters..
Every thread seems to get turned into a bash Mick thread.. :D
So I ask you Jamie.
We spent nearly $800k to send players to Arizona, in high altitude environments, on pressurized aircraft for 24 hours each way in sub zero temperatures do they could sit and ride bikes...
So again is it poor management?
It's just a question.
Facts are in November 3 months before the start of the season we had a huge squad ( more than the previous year) and a lot of guys doing work at home.
Yes there are other injuries but we were talkig about pos season surgeries not other injuries which happen to all clubs?
I gave you the list of ones who didnt go over.. They were the ones I was talking about riding bikes etc.. Not the ones in Arizona... I heard 22 surgeries over the whole preseason were had.. Obviously they happened at different times. Its affected 22 players at some stage over their 5 months of pres season.. So either way you look at it, they've missed crucial parts of their off seaso.. Arizona isnt the only crucial part of a pre season.. But tis is a circle we keep going around in.. Im getting off the merry go round.. :)
Show me where I have mentioned mick?
Show me where I have mentioned mick?
Sorry that was my mistake... I thought I had quoted someone else... Its been edited now accordingly.. :-[ :)
If you and Carrots think that our pre season involves just doing two weeks in Arizona and all who took part have no excuses,
No excuses when it comes to post season surgery.....and yes, they don't have that as an excuse from where I sit.
Jamie you said it's hard to come on here, well from my perspective the excuses that continue to come up are quite nauseating to me as well. I agree there's a middle ground and both sides are to blame. I don't think you do.
To me if 37 were fit enough in November to travel to te states and let's say 40 all up were doing stuff In November then regardless of surgeries we had a fair squad do a fair chunk of a pre season. So No I don't buy the injury thing as an excuse. Look at the pre season thread, I actaully said we looked underdone... Doesn't make sense to me.
And why is it now only an issue with the group and the coaching staff. The article MBB showed said we were bullish with our squad doing a lot of the pre season. When did it change. When we were 0-4.
If you don't believe that then I'm not sure what to say. Should they start pre season I September (we will this year).
Let's talk about how we had salary cap pressure and couldn't trade last off season even though we had enough room for Cloke to come?
I just want to club to be honest.
If you and Carrots think that our pre season involves just doing two weeks in Arizona and all who took part have no excuses,
No excuses when it comes to post season surgery.....and yes, they don't have that as an excuse from where I sit.
Jamie you said it's hard to come on here, well from my perspective the excuses that continue to come up are quite nauseating to me as well. I agree there's a middle ground and both sides are to blame. I don't think you do.
I agree both sides are to blame for some things.. But not all.. Especially when it comes to our list and where we are at... I'll leave it at that...
To me if 37 were fit enough in November to travel to te states and let's say 40 all up were doing stuff In November then regardless of surgeries we had a fair squad do a fair chunk of a pre season. So No I don't buy the injury thing as an excuse. Look at the pre season thread, I actaully said we looked underdone... Doesn't make sense to me.
And why is it now only an issue with the group and the coaching staff. The article MBB showed said we were bullish with our squad doing a lot of the pre season. When did it change. When we were 0-4.
If you don't believe that then I'm not sure what to say. Should they start pre season I September (we will this year).
Let's talk about how we had salary cap pressure and couldn't trade last off season even though we had enough room for Cloke to come?
I just want to club to be honest.
To be fair, if we had have got Cloke, we would have had to have traded 2 or 3 players out... I remember reading that we even had to re do some contracts when the AFL made Judds whole salary go onto our TPP...
To me if 37 were fit enough in November to travel to te states and let's say 40 all up were doing stuff In November then regardless of surgeries we had a fair squad do a fair chunk of a pre season. So No I don't buy the injury thing as an excuse. Look at the pre season thread, I actaully said we looked underdone... Doesn't make sense to me.
And why is it now only an issue with the group and the coaching staff. The article MBB showed said we were bullish with our squad doing a lot of the pre season. When did it change. When we were 0-4.
If you don't believe that then I'm not sure what to say. Should they start pre season I September (we will this year).
Let's talk about how we had salary cap pressure and couldn't trade last off season even though we had enough room for Cloke to come?
I just want to club to be honest.
To be fair, if we had have got Cloke, we would have had to have traded 2 or 3 players out... I remember reading that we even had to re do some contracts when the AFL made Judds whole salary go onto our TPP...
Haha seperate issue... I won't go into it.
Let's just say 8-10 year players like Thornton, Russell and bower would have been on more than the standard $80k draftee contract ;-)
Boy do we need a win tonight!! For all our sakes!!
To me if 37 were fit enough in November to travel to te states and let's say 40 all up were doing stuff In November then regardless of surgeries we had a fair squad do a fair chunk of a pre season. So No I don't buy the injury thing as an excuse. Look at the pre season thread, I actaully said we looked underdone... Doesn't make sense to me.
And why is it now only an issue with the group and the coaching staff. The article MBB showed said we were bullish with our squad doing a lot of the pre season. When did it change. When we were 0-4.
If you don't believe that then I'm not sure what to say. Should they start pre season I September (we will this year).
Let's talk about how we had salary cap pressure and couldn't trade last off season even though we had enough room for Cloke to come?
I just want to club to be honest.
To be fair, if we had have got Cloke, we would have had to have traded 2 or 3 players out... I remember reading that we even had to re do some contracts when the AFL made Judds whole salary go onto our TPP...
Haha seperate issue... I won't go into it.
Let's just say 8-10 year players like Thornton, Russell and bower would have been on more than the standard $80k draftee contract ;-)
Boy do we need a win tonight!! For all our sakes!!
I agree, we definitely need a win :)...
Sorry to both you and carrots for going off a bit... I understand both your opinions, and i always do respect both of you and enjoy reading your posts...
Anyway, like you said lets get a win.. I think if we lose I'll be steering clear for a while.. ;D
On another note, I sent you a Pm the other day.. Not sure if you got it..
They thought they were going to win?????
It's 11 on the premiership clock, who's fault was that?
Yeah because players, most of who are seasoned professional athletes, don't have minds of their own, and know that they shouldn't take any opponents lightly.
FFS!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Yeah because players, most of who are seasoned professional athletes, don't have minds of their own, and know that they shouldn't take any opponents lightly.
FFS!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
What was the plan that gave them this new found confidence, and when will we see it?
They thought they were going to win?????
It's 11 on the premiership clock, who's fault was that?
Yeah because players, most of who are seasoned professional athletes, don't have minds of their own, and know that they shouldn't take any opponents lightly.
FFS!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
So in reality, we have two sides of the coin even on the pro-Malthouse side. Some believe the players aren't good enough and some believe they don't want it enough. And some flip flop between the two. :)) (not you Dom)
They thought they were going to win?????
It's 11 on the premiership clock, who's fault was that?
Yeah because players, most of who are seasoned professional athletes, don't have minds of their own, and know that they shouldn't take any opponents lightly.
FFS!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
So in reality, we have two sides of the coin even on the pro-Malthouse side. Some believe the players aren't good enough and some believe they don't want it enough. And some flip flop between the two. :)) (not you Dom)
So just be upfront and say its me you are referencing..
For me its a clear mix of both.. Not enough talent, and not enough mental maturity throughout the whole list...
Nah I had you pegged in the 'players aren't good enough' category. Paranoid much? :P
Edit: I also left out 'the players had 18 preseason ops' category as well. :))
Nah I had you pegged in the 'players aren't good enough' category. Paranoid much? :P
No, because Ive also said its between their ears as well for the team. I said against Collingwood, they went into their shells after the 1st 10 minutes and it was plain as day....
You must just skim over my posts.. Which is fair enough. I would too. :)
Nah I had you pegged in the 'players aren't good enough' category. Paranoid much? :P
Edit: I also left out 'the players had 18 preseason ops' category as well. :))
Well we all know what category you're in Carrots. :))
@Jamie
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
@Jamie
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
I've been through this... This team has been consistently inconsistent for 7 years... Its inbuilt into them now and needs time to be fixed.. For those who it cant be fixed, need to be moved on.
Mick had enough to work with against Melbourne mate talent wise (Not saying he has against better opponents), but the team didn't turn up mentally. Somehow, I cant see Mick gave them a light week, or told the boys to rest up as this week will be an easy one.. He would have gone out of his way to make sure they weren't complacent.. But guess what, the players get out on the field and think its all going to just happen..
You blame the coach, i blame the players.. That's where we both disagree...
Forget game plan, if Carlton and Melbourne both play to their potential, giving 100% effort, we win 10/10 games.. Surely you agree to that?
Even with Waite out of the team.
Well, after the Melbourne game and their last effort if they are still complacent they must be delusional, even delirious. There should be no doubts in any of their minds that they are just nowhere near good enough to take it easy against any opposition in the league. If they don't turn up prepared to give their absolute best then there's a very good chance they will be spanked.
Let's see if they've learned anything tonight?
Well, after the Melbourne game and their last effort if they are still complacent they must be delusional, even delirious. There should be no doubts in any of their minds that they are just nowhere near good enough to take it easy against any opposition in the league. If they don't turn up prepared to give their absolute best then there's a very good chance they will be spanked.
Let's see if they've learned anything tonight?
With the talent (or lack there of) on our list, we need to be a team that turns up each week mentally and gives 100% effort. Especially when we are missing a couple of key players.
We have no real depth yet to cover them.
@Jamie
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
I've been through this... This team has been consistently inconsistent for 7 years... Its inbuilt into them now and needs time to be fixed.. For those who it cant be fixed, need to be moved on.
Mick had enough to work with against Melbourne mate talent wise (Not saying he has against better opponents), but the team didn't turn up mentally. Somehow, I cant see Mick gave them a light week, or told the boys to rest up as this week will be an easy one.. He would have gone out of his way to make sure they weren't complacent.. But guess what, the players get out on the field and think its all going to just happen..
You blame the coach, i blame the players.. That's where we both disagree...
Forget game plan, if Carlton and Melbourne both play to their potential, giving 100% effort, we win 10/10 games.. Surely you agree to that?
Even with Waite out of the team.
Absolutely I agree with that. The buck stops with the coach. IMO. Just like the buck stopped with Ratts on that fateful night at Metricon. ;)
Well, after the Melbourne game and their last effort if they are still complacent they must be delusional, even delirious. There should be no doubts in any of their minds that they are just nowhere near good enough to take it easy against any opposition in the league. If they don't turn up prepared to give their absolute best then there's a very good chance they will be spanked.
Let's see if they've learned anything tonight?
With the talent (or lack there of) on our list, we need to be a team that turns up each week mentally and gives 100% effort. Especially when we are missing a couple of key players.
We have no real depth yet to cover them.
Spot on DH.
@Jamie
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
I've been through this... This team has been consistently inconsistent for 7 years... Its inbuilt into them now and needs time to be fixed.. For those who it cant be fixed, need to be moved on.
Mick had enough to work with against Melbourne mate talent wise (Not saying he has against better opponents), but the team didn't turn up mentally. Somehow, I cant see Mick gave them a light week, or told the boys to rest up as this week will be an easy one.. He would have gone out of his way to make sure they weren't complacent.. But guess what, the players get out on the field and think its all going to just happen..
You blame the coach, i blame the players.. That's where we both disagree...
Forget game plan, if Carlton and Melbourne both play to their potential, giving 100% effort, we win 10/10 games.. Surely you agree to that?
Even with Waite out of the team.
Absolutely I agree with that. The buck stops with the coach. IMO. Just like the buck stopped with Ratts on that fateful night at Metricon. ;)
Ratts had 5 years with this bunch after Pagan had 4 or so years with them.
The buck will stop at Mick, when he's had long enough with the list to right the wrongs.. If that time comes and we are still a rabble, I'll over take you at 100mph on the Get rid of mick wagon and my tail will be firmly between my legs with humble pie splashed all over my face.. If he is sacked before that time, I'll put it down to a p1ss weak board bowing to member pressure and I'll be calling for the board to go.. ;D
Ratts had 5 years with this bunch after Pagan had 4 or so years with them.
The buck will stop at Mick, when he's had long enough with the list to right the wrongs.. If that time comes and we are still a rabble, I'll over take you at 100mph on the Get rid of mick wagon and my tail will be firmly between my legs with humble pie splashed all over my face.. If he is sacked before that time, I'll put it down to a p1ss weak board bowing to member pressure and I'll be calling for the board to go.. ;D
Baker's Delight, Four'N'Twenty or Mrs Macs?
@Jamie
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
I've been through this... This team has been consistently inconsistent for 7 years... Its inbuilt into them now and needs time to be fixed.. For those who it cant be fixed, need to be moved on.
Mick had enough to work with against Melbourne mate talent wise (Not saying he has against better opponents), but the team didn't turn up mentally. Somehow, I cant see Mick gave them a light week, or told the boys to rest up as this week will be an easy one.. He would have gone out of his way to make sure they weren't complacent.. But guess what, the players get out on the field and think its all going to just happen..
You blame the coach, i blame the players.. That's where we both disagree...
Forget game plan, if Carlton and Melbourne both play to their potential, giving 100% effort, we win 10/10 games.. Surely you agree to that?
Even with Waite out of the team.
Absolutely I agree with that. The buck stops with the coach. IMO. Just like the buck stopped with Ratts on that fateful night at Metricon. ;)
Ratts had 5 years with this bunch after Pagan had 4 or so years with them.
The buck will stop at Mick, when he's had long enough with the list to right the wrongs.. If that time comes and we are still a rabble, I'll over take you at 100mph on the Get rid of mick wagon and my tail will be firmly between my legs with humble pie splashed all over my face.. If he is sacked before that time, I'll put it down to a p1ss weak board bowing to member pressure and I'll be calling for the board to go.. ;D
So out of interest when is that time in your book?
@Jamie
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
I've been through this... This team has been consistently inconsistent for 7 years... Its inbuilt into them now and needs time to be fixed.. For those who it cant be fixed, need to be moved on.
Mick had enough to work with against Melbourne mate talent wise (Not saying he has against better opponents), but the team didn't turn up mentally. Somehow, I cant see Mick gave them a light week, or told the boys to rest up as this week will be an easy one.. He would have gone out of his way to make sure they weren't complacent.. But guess what, the players get out on the field and think its all going to just happen..
You blame the coach, i blame the players.. That's where we both disagree...
Forget game plan, if Carlton and Melbourne both play to their potential, giving 100% effort, we win 10/10 games.. Surely you agree to that?
Even with Waite out of the team.
Absolutely I agree with that. The buck stops with the coach. IMO. Just like the buck stopped with Ratts on that fateful night at Metricon. ;)
Ratts had 5 years with this bunch after Pagan had 4 or so years with them.
The buck will stop at Mick, when he's had long enough with the list to right the wrongs.. If that time comes and we are still a rabble, I'll over take you at 100mph on the Get rid of mick wagon and my tail will be firmly between my legs with humble pie splashed all over my face.. If he is sacked before that time, I'll put it down to a p1ss weak board bowing to member pressure and I'll be calling for the board to go.. ;D
So it's the players fault because they are crap and every poor performance is down to them, and has nothing to do with the coach, but if we win and play well he will get the credit? Just want to get this one right. :P
@Jamie
But in general your point has been the players aren't good enough and Mick has not enough to work with. If it was between the ears I don't see how you could dismiss Mick as a factor.
I've been through this... This team has been consistently inconsistent for 7 years... Its inbuilt into them now and needs time to be fixed.. For those who it cant be fixed, need to be moved on.
Mick had enough to work with against Melbourne mate talent wise (Not saying he has against better opponents), but the team didn't turn up mentally. Somehow, I cant see Mick gave them a light week, or told the boys to rest up as this week will be an easy one.. He would have gone out of his way to make sure they weren't complacent.. But guess what, the players get out on the field and think its all going to just happen..
You blame the coach, i blame the players.. That's where we both disagree...
Forget game plan, if Carlton and Melbourne both play to their potential, giving 100% effort, we win 10/10 games.. Surely you agree to that?
Even with Waite out of the team.
Absolutely I agree with that. The buck stops with the coach. IMO. Just like the buck stopped with Ratts on that fateful night at Metricon. ;)
Ratts had 5 years with this bunch after Pagan had 4 or so years with them.
The buck will stop at Mick, when he's had long enough with the list to right the wrongs.. If that time comes and we are still a rabble, I'll over take you at 100mph on the Get rid of mick wagon and my tail will be firmly between my legs with humble pie splashed all over my face.. If he is sacked before that time, I'll put it down to a p1ss weak board bowing to member pressure and I'll be calling for the board to go.. ;D
So it's the players fault because they are crap and every poor performance is down to them, and has nothing to do with the coach, but if we win and play well he will get the credit? Just want to get this one right. :P
A coaches job is to build a list, teach his list a certain game style that suits the list and gives them every chance to win and also develop as players.. He then will implement it and train his players for it. His job is also to develop players to their potential. The coaches also choose match ups, tactics etc, .. But once out on the field, win lose or draw, its 99% the players and whether the players bring the effort required, right mindset and work ethic, and nail their skills under pressure to carry out the instructions and plans they have been given all week. Some weeks they can, some weeks they cant.. Some 1/4's they can, some 1/4's they cant. Good opposition wont let teams like ours dictate terms for too long during games. It takes a lot of concentration, hard work, and discipline.. We lack the ability to sustain all 3 for long enough at the moment.
If we brought 100% effort every week, I still don't believe we have the list to consistently beat the top teams and challenge for a flag.. The trouble is we don't give 100% every week, so we struggle to beat the mid range teams aswell.. I hope we are now clear. :D
Mick is known as a great motivator, so I don't believe for one second he lacks motivational skills.
Bomber Thompson said when he came to Essendon, he said to Hird it was a 4-5 year job to get the list to where he wanted.. He said by the 4th year, the players should be able to coach themselves out on the ground.
Its now Essendons 4th year and he says this is happening.. Now this is from Bomber Thompson.. So he has instilled a gameplan, but its now up to the players to execute it..
@ Goat
As far as how long.. I think around 60 games is fair to get a lot of things done.. But to right every wrong, I would say 3-4 years.
@Jamie
You can't compare lists with other clubs that weren't in the same position. MM does not have to build from ground up he had 11 first round draft picks out there last night FFS. He has 3 more sitting in the reserves and two out injured..
@ Goat
As far as how long.. I think around 60 games is fair to get a lot of things done.. But to right every wrong, I would say 3-4 years.
Given his 30 years experience and 3 premierships, I reckon 3-4 years is a bit much, but thanks for your honesty. He has a 3 year contract and by now I would have expected to see improvement across the team, and more consistent performance.