Oh well, our skills were deplorable but we still battled for four quarters and never gave up. Hard to win with passengers like Yarran and those umps cost us at least three goals.
What is wrong with andreas everitt? Looks fine when he gets on the end of an easy kick but otherwise plays like he's mentally retarded. Does not have any urgency, won't shepherd, can't tackle, won't run to pressure the opposition - just jogs, no capability for team play at all. Just a putrid player. Nobody seems to notice though.
Wanted to quote this in here. He is great offensively but he has no defensive side to his game, some pathetic attempts to tackle.
Let's face it. Neither team decorated themselves in glory. Wasn't a great game to watch. 6th playing 16th. A couple of junk time goals. Early injuries to us. Not a terrible result all things considered. I was expecting much worse.
If we converted those early shots, who knows ?
Oh well.
There was a win in that game for a better team than us.
Was that Hampson's best ever game?
Can someone please pm me regarding what's wrong with Yaz please? He used to be my absolute favourite player and I just don't know what to think anymore
Was that Hampson's best ever game?
NO
Tonights game.
Yarran is a big problem.
Umpires need to go to spec savers.
Kreuzer busts his arse, and even though he isn't a great ruck others need to follow in his foot steps with his one percenters.
Rowe and Jamo need to be fit each and every game.
Fields needs more games, but he needs to put some effort into his actions. This is AFL, not VFL.
Cotchin is a dirty prick. He grabbed Murphy by the short and curlies early in the game. That is just not on. Dirty smelly little scum bag.
Very, very angry with our game tonight. It really was a game we could have won, if we didn't turn the ball over every second disposal. >:(
It was an ugly game to say the least. Henderson needs to do something to be more creative. Otherwise he is better off going to Geelong and getting us some compensation in return. Well done trying hard tonight Levi. Well done Simo as usual. Tutt better game than what you usually deliver. 2E wake up. Marking is not an art. White, you can be expected to be first defender too often. You try hard but without other talls to assist, you are in a position to be worked over. Everitt get your work rate in order or p1ss off. Gibbs, you need to create more. Seriously, you have been around long enough.
Menzel, I am not sure what to say. Like a fish out of water at the moment. Give him time, but he needs to deliver more than we currently see.
Given that the Tigers have top 8, or top 4 aspirations, they ought to be more worried about that game than us. Maybe they never got out of second gear, but they weren't terribly convincing to me. Rance and Riewoldt make all the difference.
Other clubs have worked out our run and carry game and closing us down. Defensive scraps aren't our strong point as we tend in turn it over in those types of games alot. Barker's first test is to be able to work our way through that.
As for goalkicking there's an argument that it cost us last week's game (maybe) and stopped us from making this a much closer contest. It MUST be rectified! We're due an easy week on the training track so use it to goal kick, goal kick, goal kick. It murders you in low scoring scraps where goals are at a premium. 15.31 in the last two games.
Can someone explain FA to me... Apparently higher clubs pinch players from lower postioned clubs, who get picks to help them rebuild.
So we lose our only true forward, who apparently wasn't worth any compensation....
Is it just me or is the AFL toying with us?
Problem remains our bottom 5 or so players. White, Wood, Tutt & Fields (on tonight's evidence) look very much like solid VFL players, but very average AFL reps. Missed handpasses in general play killed us, along some very poor field kicking from Carazzo and Yarran in particular.
Tall order with your two key defenders missing against a team who has two genuine key forward.
In the last two weeks we've held sides to a losing score (19 goals total) but haven't been able to capitalise. 12 goals in two weeks is deplorable. Hendo has lost the plot, maybe not wanting to hurt himself before going to the Cats? Yazz and Menzel have been very ordinary. Everitt can only play loose on the forward line, is way too timid to be a hard and defensive player.
Freo and the Dawks over the next two weeks. Gulp.
In the last two weeks we've held sides to a losing score (19 goals total) but haven't been able to capitalise. 12 goals in two weeks is deplorable. Hendo has lost the plot, maybe not wanting to hurt himself before going to the Cats? Yazz and Menzel have been very ordinary. Everitt can only play loose on the forward line, is way too timid to be a hard and defensive player.
Freo and the Dawks over the next two weeks. Gulp.
Hopefully they can both pulverize each other on the weekend, enough for the effects to be felt for 2 weeks.
Can someone explain FA to me... Apparently higher clubs pinch players from lower postioned clubs, who get picks to help them rebuild.
So we lose our only true forward, who apparently wasn't worth any compensation....
Is it just me or is the AFL toying with us?
Yes! You just worked that out? :o
Interesting to see what the MRP does with Vickery. The guy's an absolute tosser.
Went out of his way to bump, never had eyes for the ball, in fact - ball was 50 metres away. Jamo wasn't looking and couldn't protect himself. Weak as p!ss, low dog act.
Surely it's time for us to get on the front foot and express our disgust BEFORE some lame excuse or non-action from the AFL. As plenty of other forum members have said - we've become the soft touch club.
Even though Jamo's concussion wasn't an accident - has there ever been a club who's lost a crucial player inside the opening few minutes of a game as many times as Carlton has?
Last couple of games we played unsociable football, but today we were sociable :o
Richmond were just plain dirty tonight
So behind the play = intentional, straight to tribunal.
Intentional, high contact and high impact, plus poor record.
Six weeks you mangy dog.
I can't believe the commentators on channel 7 saying Vickery on Jamo shoulder block to the head was a complete accident and only the head connected. Clearly the shoulder strikes the head of Jamo as Vickery blocks or uses a sceening technique to fend jamo away from the contest.
Then in incident numer 2, Kreuzer goes for a contest and accidentally strikes Vickery in the mouth with his elbow. This is deemed to be a worry because it knocked a tooth out of his mouth. He never looked at Vickery and never tried to strike him. Complete accident.
As for the mark that wasn't given to Kreuzer. he towers over his opponent by 10cm. Leaps 10cm higher than the man in front. Longer arms have him fully extended and nearly 12 inches above his opponent taking the ball. How does the man in front get paid the mark when he scoops the ball out of his hands.
Yet Vickery attempts a mark in the last quarter and only touches the ball for a split second once and drops the ball. Yet he is paid the mark. The umpires got it wrong on so many occasions tonight. no wonder we lost confidence early in the game. I feel sorry for Barker as we were never a chance tonight. We were out numbered on the field. Maggots+Tigers was never going to work our way once we lost Jamo in the first quarter.
Hardwick better not be happy with this game. his side isn't that good and will be exposed before the season ends. Umpires won't always give a one sided affair when it comes to free kicks.
Not having much luck with injuries at the moment.
Last week we lose Cripps and Everitt and Rowe pre-game.
This week we still don't get Rowe back, lose Jamo in the first 10 minutes...Gibbs looks like he hurt his pec, Murphy is carrying a hip/stomach/rib injury. White hyperextended his knee....and i think someone else went down at some stage.
This, together with our awful efforts in front of goal has cost us 2 weeks in a row.
Not having much luck with injuries at the moment.
Last week we lose Cripps and Everitt and Rowe pre-game.
This week we still don't get Rowe back, lose Jamo in the first 10 minutes...Gibbs looks like he hurt his pec, Murphy is carrying a hip/stomach/rib injury. White hyperextended his knee....and i think someone else went down at some stage.
This, together with our awful efforts in front of goal has cost us 2 weeks in a row.
Does this mean we are not far off the mark? :o ;)
I think that we are actually starting to get a true feel of how good/bad our list is, as they are now, as a group, obviously trying.
The next step is to grow the depth of the club, as we are showed up when our best 22 aren't around - no club ever has them all available.
Tonight, as per the last few weeks, effort and endeavour have generally been fine. Skills and decision making on the other hand...
Pathetic effort and probably a coach killer..never looked in the game and our skills were deplorable...
Richmond intimidated us physically..Martin and Vickery frighten our blokes and have for the past few seasons..
Reiwoldt and Vickery had it easy but I'm not blaming the undersized White and newbie Fields...the latter was ok IMO and looks a promising player
unless we continue to play him on blokes who are much bigger like the thug Vickery.
Everitt pulled the handbrake on a couple of contests and should be dropped but wont be as he is one of our few players with some decent skills..
Henderson was weak and hopeless down forward and Rance smashed him in the air and on the ground..anyone who thinks Henderson is a better forward than backman needs to go to specsavers...
Menzel was a non event, weak attack on the ball and tries to look for the easy outside kick too much instead of initiating play...
Yarran as a defender is hopeless.....too weak in the air and too soft in the head to have anywhere the goals you are trying defend..he has zero interest and will be on the trade market...
Kruezer tried hard and earned his money although his old mate Hampson was his equal....
Murphy tried but just gets hammered every week and will be punchy by the end of season if he keeps getting clobbered...he got some footy but didnt impact much..
Gibbs the human man bun was just ok but nothing special..and soft at times, lacks impact when he has the ball and doesnt create enough for his mates..
Buckley...showed some courage and battled on...
Tutt.....my German Shepherd would have more idea about laying a tackle and dragging a player down.......how many more years do we have to go with Tutt?
Simpson....just went and was under pressure most of the night...
Bell......very ordinary ineffectual evening..
Curnow..worked/ran hard but his kicking is woeful
Wood....battled but ineffectual like most of his teammates..
Holman.....attacks the ball ok but raw in terms of nous but does contest well..
Carrazzo...not our worst and looked more assured than most...
Armfield...didnt get near the footy most of the night and when he did was poor..
Casboult...couple of goals with some straight kicks but is hopeless at ground level and needs to work harder..
Cripps....went ok but had no help and the Tigers gave him the treatment like they did Murphy but the young bloke has the size to absorb
the punishment and was one of our better players IMO....
Jamo...cleaned up off the ball by the thug Vickery who should get a long lay off but probably wont......
Umpiring.....biased, inconsistent, and had no idea for the entire game, paid frees and marks that were not there and missed the obvious ones...
They did look after Trent Cotchin though and I hope he is buying them dinner this week as they looked after him very well
Does this mean we are not far off the mark? :o ;)
Good teams win.
Bad teams highlight excuses.
Not having much luck with injuries at the moment.
Last week we lose Cripps and Everitt and Rowe pre-game.
This week we still don't get Rowe back, lose Jamo in the first 10 minutes...Gibbs looks like he hurt his pec, Murphy is carrying a hip/stomach/rib injury. White hyperextended his knee....and i think someone else went down at some stage.
This, together with our awful efforts in front of goal has cost us 2 weeks in a row.
...and just reported that Armfield may have a broken arm.
This week we still don't get Rowe back, lose Jamo in the first 10 minutes...Gibbs looks like he hurt his pec, Murphy is carrying a hip/stomach/rib injury. White hyperextended his knee....and i think someone else went down at some stage.
Armfield.
An ugly, ugly game that was not helped by the appalling umpiring, but having said that, some of our players find new ways to embarrass themselves every time they step out on the park. Here are a few primes examples:
Carrazzo - 25 metres out to put us within 18 points and put pressure on the Tigers and maybe some belief in his team mates. Instead of kicking truly, he shanks it like a typical Carrazzo effort and is lucky to score a behind
Tutt - 20 metres out directly in front. Could start some momentum for the team. Hmmmm, nah, not for Tutt, he thinks a behind will better service our needs. Should never wear the Carlton Guernsey again. I've seen enough! It's not pretty and not going to get any better
Yarran - Turn over merchant extraordinaire. Fu(k me, if you don't want to play, just fu(kin' leave. You will save alot of peoples televisions from being destroyed. In fact, just p!ss off! You only play when you want to, not when the team needs you. Silky skills my ar5e!
Hendo - My God! Has Rance got photos of you in a compromising position? You do realise he IS the opposition and you're there to provide a contest. Geelong can have him, I've seen enough
Bryce - Just the name now incites anger within me. I immediately think flog and turnover merchant. When was the last time you hit a target? Another 4 more years of this tripe to look forward to.... Greeeeat, I'm definitely looking forward to your electrifying attack on the ball and team play............. <sarcasm off>
That is just a snippet that comes to mind, there was so much more and I'm sure I could have written a 50 page essay outlining the short comings of this team. I can't remember the skills of a side being that bad. This is below VFL level and it's not like the Tigers were putting on massive pressure. Imagine what's going to happen when we play Fremantle.
The club will need to provide diapers instead of undies before they go out onto the ground otherwise there's going to be one huge bio-hazard to clean up from every CFC player crapping themselves every time the ball is near.
I'm so over this and sick of starting off my weekend having watched the crap they've dished up. Apart from Cripps, they're all tradeable as far as I'm concerned. A bigger pack of softco(cks you will not see in your lifetime. I'm officially embarrassed to be a supporter of this club.
Whilst richmond are not top 4 imo...its a good side and our list has been exposed...guys like fields holman buckley must be perservered...
Where do we start?
We cant have a defence of thouy buckley and simmo...too small light for all 3...
Carozzo...stamp papers
Menzel...put a godam rocket up.him....no intensity nor elite fitness
Henderson...very soft at times with no strength when marking
Kruezer ...great around ground but was beat by hampson in ruck
Murphy. ..was targeted...I have great respect for our captain...we need some hard nut to protect.him more....
Bloody well said Spanner, couldn't agree with you more.
We are definately one of if not the softest teams in the comp. It would not surprise me if Brycey boy has feigned his pec injury so he does not have to face the Hawks and Freo and embarrass himself with his soft c €$k game.
PS Pinning a guys arms and slinging him to the ground head first does not make you a tough player.
Who identifies players like Jason Tutt to
A. Get drafted in the first place
B. Get picked up again after being delisted.
My god he is terrible.
Reckon we are ok. 10-11 players could go tonight and we would be better.
Tutt, Everett, Wood, White, armfield, Curnow, Carrots (retired)... Etc.
Need a crumbling forward (amazingly), and some
Key backs.
Missed Nick Graham around the contest.
Umpiring was god awful. Kruezer clean mark then 3 50/50
Kicks in a row leads to a tiger goal and game over.
Injury issues tonight were genuine. It looked like it had an effect on our confidence. We looked for the boundary rather than the corridor. I am keen to see Sheehan and Byrne back in action. Something about them tells me they will be winners. Especially Byrne. I don't know what it is but I tell you it is there clear to see. We need Rowe back soon. We miss Judd tonight. He cut them a new one in the finals game we played against the Tigers. We are very shallow in the list department when injuries hit. Especially when players limp around during a game when things go wrong during a game.
We were down our 2 best mids in theory (Judd, Thomas). 2 best defenders (Rowe, and Jamo early in the 1st quarter). Had Murphy limp through the last quarter, and Gibbs having his left pec cause him to have no input of real use in the last quarter. White did have mobility issues after his hyperextension.
All this added to a list that is green without Betts, Waite, Garlett, Robinson, and McLean. One which has left last season, but we haven't replaced these key players just yet. I would love to see how the tigers go without Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Riewoldt and a couple of players or 3 limping through a last quarter in their side.
Henderson was weak and hopeless down forward
this. has become a spud. play him down back or drop him.
Bloody well said Spanner, couldn't agree with you more.
We are definately one of if not the softest teams in the comp. It would not surprise me if Brycey boy has feigned his pec injury so he does not have to face the Hawks and Freo and embarrass himself with his soft c €$k game.
PS Pinning a guys arms and slinging him to the ground head first does not make you a tough player.
It does if you're Jay Schulz.
Bloody well said Spanner, couldn't agree with you more.
We are definately one of if not the softest teams in the comp. It would not surprise me if Brycey boy has feigned his pec injury so he does not have to face the Hawks and Freo and embarrass himself with his soft c €$k game.
PS Pinning a guys arms and slinging him to the ground head first does not make you a tough player.
if we play tough the umps crucify us ???
Gibbs lead the tackle count and had clean hands all night. Far from our worst.
Injury issues tonight were genuine. It looked like it had an effect on our confidence. We looked for the boundary rather than the corridor. I am keen to see Sheehan and Byrne back in action. Something about them tells me they will be winners. Especially Byrne. I don't know what it is but I tell you it is there clear to see. We need Rowe back soon. We miss Judd tonight. He cut them a new one in the finals game we played against the Tigers. We are very shallow in the list department when injuries hit. Especially when players limp around during a game when things go wrong during a game.
We were down our 2 best mids in theory (Judd, Thomas). 2 best defenders (Rowe, and Jamo early in the 1st quarter). Had Murphy limp through the last quarter, and Gibbs having his left pec cause him to have no input of real use in the last quarter. White did have mobility issues after his hyperextension.
All this added to a list that is green without Betts, Waite, Garlett, Robinson, and McLean. One which has left last season, but we haven't replaced these key players just yet. I would love to see how the tigers go without Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Riewoldt and a couple of players or 3 limping through a last quarter in their side.
and Douhety
Gibbs lead the tackle count and had clean hands all night. Far from our worst.
Grigg had 25 disposals and 7 tackles...didnt rate his game much either....
Martin had 21 and 1 tackle...had way more impact IMO...
if we play tough the umps crucify us ???
Free kicks were 30-25 in the Tiggies favor. Even if we play timidly, we cop it.
Can someone explain FA to me... Apparently higher clubs pinch players from lower postioned clubs, who get picks to help them rebuild.
So we lose our only true forward, who apparently wasn't worth any compensation....
Is it just me or is the AFL toying with us?
We didn't get compensation because we picked up Thomas through FA the same year, and they were deemed to be equally valuable. The joke is on us....
I'm so over this and sick of starting off my weekend having watched the crap they've dished up. Apart from Cripps, they're all tradeable as far as I'm concerned. A bigger pack of softco(cks you will not see in your lifetime. I'm officially embarrassed to be a supporter of this club.
A seriously fair weather supporter response to a loss. "A bigger pack of softcox"...great manner in which to categorize the young players trying to find their way such as Fields and Holman. Murphy, Simpson, Kreuzer and Gibbs also could question their new found labels under your categorization. Richmond like it or not have taken the next step but we are not too far away if we can tweek our list correctly in the next draft period
Carozzo...stamp papers
AFL website gave him our best........
AFL website gave him our best........
Afl website is crap...
Reckon we are ok. 10-11 players could go tonight and we would be better.
Tutt, Everett, Wood, White, armfield, Curnow, Carrots (retired)... Etc.
Everitt, Armfield and Wood deserve a reprieve for their performances thus far this season. Praised when we win but crucified when we lose. Deserve a chance to redeem themselves after a loss.
Curnow and Carrots appear to be struggling big time and will probably be cut loose. Tutt is a never was.
Horrible game to watch. The turn overs and poor disposal was so frustrating.
Menzel, 6 disposals, 1 kick & 2 tackles is just not good enough. If Tutt can run around and pick up 18 touches, then 6 from a supposedly more talented player is not good enough.
I agree with the commentators Hendo needs to play with more aggression.
Carrots had a shocker but he was not alone.
It's nice to see Rocca is earning his keep teaching Casboult how to kick straight. Cas kicked a ripper from the centre square!
Holman was quiet and dare I say it I reckon we actually missed Graham out there.
Overall we need to clean up our disposal and some need to work much harder at contributing to the team.
Hendo.....*sigh*
Yarran.....*sigh*
Everitt.....*sigh*
Menzel.....*sigh*
The four worst offenders of the night imo. Putrid in every sense, exposed in every sense, useless in every sense.
I hated tonight's game....hated everything about it. They (Richmond) were ripe for the picking, but we're so bad by mind, hand & foot, it was pointless to even consider winning an extremely winnable game. Although having 17 fit blokes by game's end.....*sigh*
Umpiring aside (and it was as bad as we've had to endure for quite some time), feck me we were terrible. Not a game John Barker would want on his resume....but there it is.
I think that one of the problems is that we are too light and not strong enough. Our strength and conditioning program over the pre-season should focus on developing our players so that they can match their opponents in one on one contests. We are also bereft of players who are capable of standing up to opposition intimidation and dishing a bit out themselves.
To use a dog analogy, we have more than our share of Whippets, Greyhounds, Fox Terriers and Labradors. We need a few Bull Arabs, Ridgebacks and mongrels.
AFL website gave him our best........
That's the funny thing about Carrazzo, had two howlers of kicks and caught holding the ball once and that's all people remember. Never mind the fact that he had 7 clearances for the night (most for Carlton) which he does week in week out. We lose by a whole lot more without him there and that is the reality. Obviously he will call it quits at the end of the year and it will have been a great career for the Blues.
Anyway let's look at the few positives.....
Krezuer - was excellent, really starting to find his feet and has committed himself publicly to the club!
Murphy - battered early and clearly injured but still battled hard for it.
Cripps - a few dodgy disposal but continues to impress
Tuohy - another that had a few poor moments but held Martin quite well and provided plenty of rebound.
Dylan Buckley - Courageous, plenty of run, getting better with every game. Probably our second best on ground.
Cas - 11 kicks 9 marks 2 goals on a wet night, bounced back from last week nicely.
Negatives.....
Henderson - Not worth the money he is on now let alone what he probably wants. Clearly looks more assured and confident down back. Let's leave him there for the rest of the season, he's doing nothing for our forward line. Does not like the idea of guys spoiling him from behind.
Everitt - not a defensive bone in his body.
Menzel - Reserves please until he can find more of the ball.
Yarran - Clearly costing the side right now.
Simon White - just not up to it.
And anyone that doesn't want Watto to get a go, could he really be any worse up forward than Henderson? Watto may actually hold a mark on the lead.
Anyway let's look at the few positives.....
Krezuer - was excellent, really starting to find his feet and has committed himself publicly to the club!
Murphy - battered early and clearly injured but still battled hard for it.
Cripps - a few dodgy disposal but continues to impress
Tuohy - another that had a few poor moments but held Martin quite well and provided plenty of rebound.
Dylan Buckley - Courageous, plenty of run, getting better with every game. Probably our second best on ground.
Cas - 11 kicks 9 marks 2 goals on a wet night, bounced back from last week nicely.
Negatives.....
Henderson - Not worth the money he is on now let alone what he probably wants. Clearly looks more assured and confident down back. Let's leave him there for the rest of the season, he's doing nothing for our forward line. Does not like the idea of guys spoiling him from behind.
Everitt - not a defensive bone in his body.
Menzel - Reserves please until he can find more of the ball.
Yarran - Clearly costing the side right now.
Simon White - just not up to it.
Bit tough on White there Carrots, he was played on the number 1 forward all night and we all know he prefers the number 3 type player. I like White,yes he is a battler and tries hard but you know what you are getting with White and he delivers week in and week out.
Which can't be said for quite a few of our other better skilled players that seem to only play when they want to. Ala Yazz, Menzel, Everitt and Hendo.
White's double turnover for a goal was unforgivable. Did it again later on coming out of defence. He's okay defensively but he is a spud with ball in hand. If he doesn't make an error he generally takes far too long to move the ball on and invariably goes the long bomb to no one in particular when there was plenty on offer had he moved the ball quicker. Yes he tries hard. He certainly does not deliver week in week out.
Disagree with those who say Richmond were ripe for a loss. We had two 6 day turn arounds, played quite a few kids with hardly any games between them, including a first gamer, had injuries early, other players clearly playing through injury, missed some real sitters etc. Plus two last quarter junk times goals that flattered them. If Richmond are fair dinkum top 4 contenders, they would have used this game as a percentage booster, and handed us a 10-12 goal mauling.
We certainly played badly at times, but in effort and consistency, I see a faint glimmer of hope.
More polish and composure please. And get some decent umps.
Spot on Paul P, the effort was there all night, obviously lacking polish on occasions but when it looked like we may lose by 10 goals out boys rallied and TBH that decision not pay Kreuzer the mark killed off all our momentum as did Carrots miss early in the last.
Spot on Paul P, the effort was there all night, obviously lacking polish on occasions but when it looked like we may lose by 10 goals out boys rallied and TBH that decision not pay Kreuzer the mark killed off all our momentum as did Carrots miss early in the last.
Yes, those little things in the heat of battle make a big difference.
Having a quick look through the stats, we laid 74 tackles to 56, broke even in the clearances, as we usually do. Inside 50's very much in the Tiggies favor. I'm very surprised by the free kick count. 30-25 in their favor - can that be correct ? It felt like 50-25.
At any rate, most of the boys are having a real crack.
EDIT : I just hope the boys don't drop their heads after tonight, and keep up the effort for the entire season. They were looking a little down last night TBH.
Simple fact - if guys like Gibbs, Everitt, Menzel, Yarran and Hendo even played average games (and the poor kicking at goal already mentioned), we beat the clowns.
When your 'better' players don't turn up you have no chance.
Says very little for the Tigers - they are ordinary.
Would ve been less than three goals down with all the momentum if Kreuzer had been rightly given that mark and converted.,
Who knows what could ve happened next.
Umpires ruined it.
So many other decisions didn't go our way.
Umps had a stiffy for Cotchin all night.
Coz only he gets held at stopages right ?
And then some pople are adamant that umps don't change the course of or influence games.
In saying that, the same old problems were there.
crap kicking for goal
crap disposal. So many turnover kings.
Yazz still ahsnt snapped out of it
Gibbs might as well have had another week off
White was out of his depth.
What happened to the aggressive tackling we saw against the Crows and Port ?
Vickery justified his reputation for being a total cock yet again. Should give Kreuz and extra 0 on his next contract for smashing the knob's teeth in lol
Yes, maybe our list isn't quite as bad as we thought BUT massive question marks still hang over it in terms of poor skills execution, poor decision making and kicking for goal. SOS will be very busy for 2 - 3 years for sure.
A very disappointing loss at a very blustery MCG to a Tigers team that has NO CHANCE of a flag IMO. Their supporters were happy, but then again they are very long suffering, as we now have become. :(
We were better in rd 1.
Yes, maybe our list isn't quite as bad as we thought BUT massive question marks still hang over it in terms of poor skills execution, poor decision making and kicking for goal. SOS will be very busy for 2 - 3 years for sure.
A very disappointing loss at a very blustery MCG to a Tigers team that has NO CHANCE of a flag IMO. Their supporters were happy, but then again they are very long suffering, as we now have become. :(
Disagree re the flag part mate, not sure what more you want TBH for them to be considered contenders.
Disagree re the flag part mate, not sure what more you want TBH for them to be considered contenders.
Fair enough, your opinion. They work hard and play for each other but seem to lack that final polish that it normally takes to win a flag - my opinion. We made plenty of errors that they just failed to capitalise on, some they did but we got away with plenty of others. I suppose they could just get lucky if they got to a GF and their opponents had an off day.
Time to give up on Hendo as a forward. Play him back so he can get some confidence. Play Rowe forward, at least he would give the forward line a bit of mongrel.
Time to give up on Hendo as a forward. Play him back so he can get some confidence. Play Rowe forward, at least he would give the forward line a bit of mongrel.
Agree. I don't know how bad Jamo's injury is (concussion) but Hendo's return to the backline would seem timely.
Ironic the amount of people singling out individual players and there lack of defensive nature, given the number of people who complained about Malthouse being TOO negative and trying to make everyone work on their defensive side. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Some players last night seemed to be playing as if they really don't want to be out there in Navy Blue.
We really don't have much to lose if we start helping them out with their decision making.
I'd rather a player going full bore and stinking it up than a talented player putting in half efforts.....and stinking it up.
Some players last night seemed to be playing as if they really don't want to be out there in Navy Blue.
We really don't have much to lose if we start helping them out with their decision making.
I'd rather a player going full bore and stinking it up than a talented player putting in half efforts.....and stinking it up.
It's far from an excuse, but the conditions were terrible last night. That never really shows up on TV, but it was very cold wet and windy. I'm not suprised some of our 'finishers' had quiet games.
Yarran probably hasn't played too many games in those conditions before. Part of the problem with playing half your games indoors, and for him growing up in the heat of the west.
It's far from an excuse, but the conditions were terrible last night. That never really shows up on TV, but it was very cold wet and windy. I'm not suprised some of our 'finishers' had quiet games.
Yarran probably hasn't played too many games in those conditions before. Part of the problem with playing half your games indoors, and for him growing up in the heat of the west.
Yarran was off all night, even before the 50 metre penalty thing.
...you know how it is sometimes...you know they're off, and you hope they don't get the ball because you know they'll stuff it up
His mind just didn't seem to be there.
Rain may affect skills but it shouldn't stop effort.
(I wasn't just talking about Yarran though, and in his case there may be some underlying issues, there was some poor second efforts by quite a few players)
I'd like to give a big thank you to the 3 or 4 players I've been defending over the last year or so .......for all being shizen on the same night. THANKS BOYS!!! ;D
Oh well, our skills were deplorable but we still battled for four quarters and never gave up. Hard to win with passengers like Yarran and those umps cost us at least three goals.
Their first 5 goals all started from free kicks.
Was that Hampson's best ever game?
He did play a couple of reasonable ones for us, but this was his most consistent game. And he really killed us in the ruck taps. That was probably the difference: they got silver service in the middle.
Mind you, losing Jamo like that hurt. He usually kills Riewoldt.
I think the Tiggies were exposed a little last night. Whether we rattled them a little (a laughable concept to some) or whether they paid us no respect, I'm not sure. Up until last night, I thought they were around the mark. Was last night a one off, or is it a portent of things to come ? Because they were ordinary last night, and they should have pumped us.
I think the Tiggies were exposed a little last night. Whether we rattled them a little (a laughable concept to some) or whether they paid us no respect, I'm not sure. Up until last night, I thought they were around the mark. Was last night a one off, or is it a portent of things to come ? Because they were ordinary last night, and they should have pumped us.
Early on they couldn't take the pressure, gifted goals by umps and then we shot ourselves with disposal.
Crikey fellas, enough of the lame excuses.
Last night was as insipid as anything we served up under Malthouse, rank turnovers, missed tackles, no support for the ball carrier and woeful conversion, and apart from a couple of players we were near enough to full strength.
There's no way to spin it, our list needs major surgery and even if we get all our recruiting decisions right it's still going to take 5 years.
Last year was another wipe out, Jaksch, Wiley, Boekhorst, Tutt and Jones, that alone has put us back another 2 years.
Regarding Fields.
First thoughts were he probably needed to go back and have a bit more "development time".
He seemed to be a fair bit off the pace but considering Rowe was missing and Jamison went down early he, and the rest of the defence, had to carry a bit of extra weight.
Thought he started to work himself into the game a bit and had a couple of minor wins.
Lovely kick of the ball.
So in the interests of development maybe he needs another go this year.
Whether it's the next two weeks or not is debatable.
Time to give up on Hendo as a forward. Play him back so he can get some confidence. Play Rowe forward, at least he would give the forward line a bit of mongrel.
The tell was when he was delivered the ball to perfect advantage, one out and goal side of the defender inside F50. He failed to use his body to defend the space and then failed to take the mark despite having Rance beaten and out positioned. It was U15 stuff.
A genuine forward begs for those sort of opportunities and Hendo burned it!
Some players last night seemed to be playing as if they really don't want to be out there in Navy Blue.
We really don't have much to lose if we start helping them out with their decision making.
I'd rather a player going full bore and stinking it up than a talented player putting in half efforts.....and stinking it up.
Did you see the pre-match footage of Barker/Laidley addressing the team? Yarran is away with the fairies, most of the list look disinterested and nobody is really listening to the coaches!
This is what you get from players who have been stuffed around with mixed messages for too long, there is no coming back for this crew they are lost as a group! No wonder Barker hasn't put his hand up for the job, it would be like volunteering to take the remedial class.
There is no way we will attract a decent coach with footage like that circulating, the EFC Ch.7 apologists have cooked us again, it's another bend over session boys I hope you enjoy it! :o The rest of you can keep thinking those broadcast shots are not deliberate!
Early on they couldn't take the pressure, gifted goals by umps and then we shot ourselves with disposal.
Yep -some scoreboard heat from us in the first q would've made things interesting. The chances were there.
Fair enough, your opinion. They work hard and play for each other but seem to lack that final polish that it normally takes to win a flag - my opinion. We made plenty of errors that they just failed to capitalise on, some they did but we got away with plenty of others. I suppose they could just get lucky if they got to a GF and their opponents had an off day.
On last night you are spot on but I've seen them beat sydney and Freo away, they are the real deal.
I think the Tiggies were exposed a little last night. Whether we rattled them a little (a laughable concept to some) or whether they paid us no respect, I'm not sure. Up until last night, I thought they were around the mark. Was last night a one off, or is it a portent of things to come ? Because they were ordinary last night, and they should have pumped us.
The good sides still win when they play crap.
The tell was when he was delivered the ball to perfect advantage, one out and goal side of the defender inside F50. He failed to use his body to defend the space and then failed to take the mark despite having Rance beaten and out positioned. It was U15 stuff.
A genuine forward begs for those sort of opportunities and Hendo burned it!
Good pick up LP, I thought exactly the same thing. Had no idea about protecting the space for the ball to drop and not good enough to jump over Rance and mark it.
If Geelong are hellbent on a bloke who seriously, has played about 5 good games of footy in the past 2 years, then they're welcome to him.
If Geelong are hellbent on a bloke who seriously, has played about 5 good games of footy in the past 2 years, then they're welcome to him.
The Cats will play him in the backline and he'll become a star.
The Cats will play him in the backline and he'll become a star.
Yep.
..he had a stinker from the small amount of the game I saw. That one out in the 50 is bread and butter for good forwards.
But I still reckon the reason he's up there is because he's the only one clever enough to play KPF and organise the forwards.
Our options are Cas one out or Watson or running Krooz and Cas through there. Big ask.
A seriously fair weather supporter response to a loss. "A bigger pack of softcox"...great manner in which to categorize the young players trying to find their way such as Fields and Holman. Murphy, Simpson, Kreuzer and Gibbs also could question their new found labels under your categorization. Richmond like it or not have taken the next step but we are not too far away if we can tweek our list correctly in the next draft period
This attitude is what has got us to this position. People constantly making excuses for our players. No more! Fu(k 'em! How about we put pressure on them to perform, instead of making excuses as to why they didn't.
We've got a strong marking key position forward.
In a contest chances are he'll either mark it or it will go to ground
We rest our rucks up there from time to time.
That's enough talls...but let's not rely on them to kick goals.
Put Henderson back and stack the forward line with medium/ smalls....a mosquito fleet.
Put Yarran there for a start.
We've got a strong marking key position forward.
In a contest chances are he'll either mark it or it will go to ground
We rest our rucks up there from time to time.
That's enough talls...but let's not rely on them to kick goals.
Put Henderson back and stack the forward line with medium/ smalls....a mosquito fleet.
Put Yarran there for a start.
Lod's I agree with you to a point.
But I hope they SEN put up the Barker interview this morning. He goes into a bit of detail of how they are trying to get the forwards to work and how, at the moment, they (and others) are just not getting the system right.
I reckon he's keeping Henderson there not just for his smarts but because they want the system working with the people they have been working with.
Hendo looked a different player when he went down back for the last 15 minutes last night. I Just don't think he can handle the attention that comes with playing as a key forward. Down back he doesn't get that and tends to play a whole lot better. For us he's either a defender or trade bait.
Just watched the Northern Blues game. Boy, do we have some dumb footballers on our list. Foster, Jones and Watson are three.
Hendo looked a different player when he went down back for the last 15 minutes last night. I Just don't think he can handle the attention that comes with playing as a key forward. Down back he doesn't get that and tends to play a whole lot better. For us he's either a defender or trade bait.
It's not even that he's a little bit better, he was a general back there in 2013.
Just watched the Northern Blues game. Boy, do we have some dumb footballers on our list. Foster, Jones and Watson are three.
Could relate to the poor development. ....the board is not sinking much resources into the reserves
Been our problem for decades
Lod's I agree with you to a point.
But I hope they SEN put up the Barker interview this morning. He goes into a bit of detail of how they are trying to get the forwards to work and how, at the moment, they (and others) are just not getting the system right.
I reckon he's keeping Henderson there not just for his smarts but because they want the system working with the people they have been working with.
I can accept that I guess.
Obviously we have to work within the limitations of a list.
I think we all see potential in players to play different roles and get a little frustrated by them being kept in (what we perceive) to be less than their ideal positions.
Could relate to the poor development. ....the board is not sinking much resources into the reserves
Been our problem for decades
Unfortunately true. Even Richmond had a number of guys with lots of experience out there. We can't attract them and can't get them to stay.
While it wouldn't have altered the result, the umpiring was incredibly inconsistent last night. I think that the players not knowing who has been given a free is a pretty good indicator that the umpires are off their game.
Fifty-five free kicks were awarded last night compared to fifteen in the Collingwood-Port Adelaide game. I am a firm believer in free kicks being paid when they are there but I reckon almost a third of last night's frees were for inconsequential or non-existent actions.
On the other hand, why wasn't a free kick paid when Vickery made head high contact with Jamison when the ball was 50 metres away? Cotchin was the beneficiary of a free reversal when Cripps made light contact with an opponent's scone ???
Could relate to the poor development. ....the board is not sinking much resources into the reserves
Been our problem for decades
Trigg was at the game today with SOS. Let's hope the penny dropped today!
The Cats will play him in the backline and he'll become a star.
Agree....Cam Ling said he plays his best footy down back where he can read the ball better....
Agree....Cam Ling said he plays his best footy down back where he can read the ball better....
I agree 100% with you but TBF Lingy did follow that up with 'he needs his opponent to take him to the ball' which is the exact opposite isn't it? :P
I agree 100% with you but TBF Lingy did follow that up with 'he needs his opponent to take him to the ball' which is the exact opposite isn't it? :P
Maybe when his opponent gets him to to roughly where the ball he is he reads it better.. :P..all I know is he was next to useless down forward and had zero presence.
I just dont want another Laidler scenario where we lose a good footballer because the footy dept dont have the nous to play him where he does his best work...
Maybe when his opponent gets him to to roughly where the ball he is he reads it better.. :P..all I know is he was next to useless down forward and had zero presence.
I just dont want another Laidler scenario where we lose a good footballer because the footy dept dont have the nous to play him where he does his best work...
I don't reckon it's anything like the Laidler situation.
We owe it to ourselves to play him down back for the remainder of the year.
Trigg was at the game today with SOS. Let's hope the penny dropped today!
Hope so , so many on the list that are just not up to it, SOS has a big hatch it job coming up
I don't reckon it's anything like the Laidler situation.
The end result is what I meant where we lose a player to another club who play him in his right position and he is successful...the circumstances would be different but
we will be watching another of our ex players doing well for another club...
If Henderson isnt enjoying his football or doing well with us I think the odds are he will take another offer and leave...
If Henderson isnt enjoying his football or doing well with us I think the odds are he will take another offer and leave...
I'd rather lose him than Yarran.
The end result is what I meant where we lose a player to another club who play him in his right position and he is successful...the circumstances would be different but
we will be watching another of our ex players doing well for another club...
If Henderson isnt enjoying his football or doing well with us I think the odds are he will take another offer and leave...
He was bad last night.
He hasn't been bad all year in the position. In fact he's been pretty damn good since MM left.
There's no comparison, we knew Laidler had the sads from his tweets. For all we know Henderson is happy playing there and playing a team role until we find the guy to take his place.
He was bad last night.
He hasn't been bad all year in the position. In fact he's been pretty damn good since MM left.
There's no comparison, we knew Laidler had the sads from his tweets. For all we know Henderson is happy playing there and playing a team role until we find the guy to take his place.
Most have improved since MM has left but I will disagree on this one and have not been that taken with Henderson this season down forward, I will accept his supply/delivery has been poor
but I think he has lacked strength in contesting including his marking and in several games he has hardly touched the football.
Most have improved since MM has left but I will disagree on this one and have not been that taken with Henderson this season down forward, I will accept his supply/delivery has been poor
but I think he has lacked strength in contesting including his marking and in several games he has hardly touched the football.
Like many blokes before him, Henderson is simply better as a defender than he is as a forward.
I have advocated playing him as a forward but, after last night, it is clear to me that he is more comfortable as a defender and his contribution is much better. I think that it is time to commit to Henderson as a defender and find someone else to play as a key forward.
If Henderson keeps playing the way he has been playing of late for the rest of the season, he will be cheap to sign up again. Then again he will be a cheap pick up for the Cats.
If Henderson keeps playing the way he has been playing of late for the rest of the season, he will be cheap to sign up again. Then again he will be a cheap pick up for the Cats.
I hope this is not planned....
It was interesting in Barkers post game presser the idea of playing Hendo back was raised by a questioner. Barker's response was lukewarm to say the least, so it looks like he'll be staying forward unless cards were being held close to the chest.
Most have improved since MM has left but I will disagree on this one and have not been that taken with Henderson this season down forward, I will accept his supply/delivery has been poor
but I think he has lacked strength in contesting including his marking and in several games he has hardly touched the football.
In a nutshell, he has shown himself to have very little ticker. 9 kicks and six marks is his average.
It was interesting in Barkers post game presser the idea of playing Hendo back was raised by a questioner. Barker's response was lukewarm to say the least, so it looks like he'll be staying forward unless cards were being held close to the chest.
Look at it this way, if Hendo goes back, we'll probably have to play Jones or Watson up forward, and potentially drop one of Jamo/Rowe...or maybe someone like fields.
Hendo back is a better player.
Hendo back makes the team worse....as counter-intuitive as it is.
Look at it this way, if Hendo goes back, we'll probably have to play Jones or Watson up forward, and potentially drop one of Jamo/Rowe...or maybe someone like fields.
Hendo back is a better player.
Hendo back makes the team worse....as counter-intuitive as it is.
So.................
(https://idiopathicmedicine.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/header.jpeg)
CARLTON great Robert Walls has urged Carlton to banish Chris Yarran to the VFL for at least the next two matches after what he termed a “disgraceful” performance against Richmond on Friday night.
And Walls also targeted three Blues forwards — Lachie Henderson, Andrejs Everitt and Troy Menzel — for their substandard efforts.
“If Carlton let him (Yarran) play next week I think it is poor form by the Carlton coaching staff,” Walls told AFL Live on Saturday. “He deserves to have two weeks playing reserve grade football.
“Yarran is a talented player, but talent doesn’t get you too far in football today. His workrate is disgraceful, he picks and chooses when he goes for the football (and) he has got a chip on his shoulder.
“Remember the incident with (Paul) Chapman and after that he came back and was doing little snipes here and there. He has got an attitude problem.”
Yarran gave away a 50m penalty during the second quarter on Friday night when he flung his hand at a ball being returned to Trent Cotchin, who nailed the resultant goal at a crucial time.
Walls said of the incident: “(It was) just a smart-alec flippant flick of the ball as it was being thrown back ... and Cotchin of course goes back to kick the goal.”
But the man who coached the Blues to the 1987 premiership, and also played in three flags, was just as frustrated by several other Carlton players who gave limited efforts on Friday night.
“The effort from Carlton just wasn’t there,” he said. “I thought Marc Murphy was terrific ... the skipper got targeted on the night and that’s fair enough, but he kept getting up and giving his absolute best.
“(Matthew) Kreuzer was another and there were a few others. But there were about four or five who I thought were disgraceful in their lack of effort, and I am talking about Yarran, Everitt, Menzel and Henderson.
“Everitt doesn’t tackle; he is a forward who has no workrate to lock the ball in.
“Menzel doesn’t put the tackles on like you expect of a small forward. If I was coaching Menzel, I would say the next month this is your program — ‘three weeks of intensive training and no playing, then I would say you have a week in the reserves and then we play the last four games in the seniors to finish the year’ because he is going nowhere and embarrassing himself and the club at the moment.
“I agree thoroughly with what Wayne Carey said, Henderson as a key forward, plays with absolutely no aggression, and no grunt, no force and no pressure. They tell me clubs are out there interested in getting Lachie Henderson, well on the performances I have seen in the past month, I wouldn’t touch him.”
Walls said it was time more Carlton players were prepared to look after Murphy, who was given little assistance from the barrage he copped from the Tigers on Friday night.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-great-robert-walls-says-chris-yarran-should-be-dropped-slams-blues-performance-against-tigers/story-fni5f5nx-1227438238586
Great to have you back Wallsy and good to see you are reading my posts. ;)
Reading Wallsy, whose opinions I respect, tells me that the attitude problems within our list are still very much ongoing and that if we are to fix them the offenders now need to be gone. Following a bit of a recovery when Barker took over we seem to be lapsing back into our bad ways. As the song says " Been workin' and workin' but we still have a terribly long way to go".
If the people won't change then we have to change the people! The time is here.
I think Wallsy has had a look at one game and made up his mind.
He does shoot from the lip a bit. Hendo had been pretty good till Friday, Everitt has weaknesses, but he's been very very good for us this month.
Yarran and Menz have been poop.
I think Wallsy has had a look at one game and made up his mind.
He does shoot from the lip a bit. Hendo had been pretty good till Friday, Everitt has weaknesses, but he's been very very good for us this month.
Yarran and Menz have been poop.
Walls' observations about Hendo's aggression, Everitt, Yarran and Menzel's tackling are 100% on the money even when we have been playing better. Their recent good games are due to benefiting from the work-rate of others like Graham, Holman and Cripps not their own. We know Menzel and Yarran have it so why they are not producing is a mystery.
Sadly I think Everitt and Hendo are both introverts who don't have the mental approach and aggression required for the roles they want to play. It's the old too many introverts argument again, and the opposition to take full advantage! And one reason Cripps stands out is because his willingness to talk and direct contrasts heavily against the rest of our list like a dog turd on a seafood platter! :o
Further, clearly we have no unity. You wouldn't want to be in the trenches with this lot, you'd turn around and find yourself the only one left there! ;)
Reading Wallsy, whose opinions I respect, tells me that the attitude problems within our list are still very much ongoing and that if we are to fix them the offenders now need to be gone. Following a bit of a recovery when Barker took over we seem to be lapsing back into our bad ways. As the song says " Been workin' and workin' but we still have a terribly long way to go".
Not really Cookie. We had a terrible side out there last week and also lost Cripps in the last quarter but really should have won. This week we were down for sure but never stopped trying (bar Yarran, Everitt and Menzel). 35 points down after conceding four goals straight we would've packed it in and got beat by 10+ goals under the previous regime but we stuck it out and really should have challenged again has the umpiring allowed us to.
I think Wallsy has had a look at one game and made up his mind.
He does shoot from the lip a bit. Hendo had been pretty good till Friday, Everitt has weaknesses, but he's been very very good for us this month.
CIMM. He's averaging 9 kicks, 6 marks and 1.4 goals per game. Add to that around 1 tackle per game and the bloke is a passenger. He has not improved at all in the last 3-4 years.
Not really Cookie. We had a terrible side out there last week and also lost Cripps in the last quarter but really should have won. This week we were down for sure but never stopped trying (bar Yarran, Everitt and Menzel). 35 points down after conceding four goals straight we would've packed it in and got beat by 10+ goals under the previous regime but we stuck it out and really should have challenged again has the umpiring allowed us to.
OK good points Carrots, but you mentioned three who weren't trying on Fri and they should all be under close scrutiny from now on. Another effort like that from those guys and they should all get a spell in the NBs AFAIC. It should be nipped in the bud quickly.
I agree I reckon if Yarran isn't injured or mentally distracted by a serious matter he should definitely be dropped. Menzel a no brainer but Everitt deserves a chance as he has been a potent attacking weapon recently. Hendo as always does enough to stay in for sure, he's serviceable but that's it.
CIMM. He's averaging 9 kicks, 6 marks and 1.4 goals per game. Add to that around 1 tackle per game and the bloke is a passenger. He has not improved at all in the last 3-4 years.
Yeah nah.
Yeah nah.
Okay that's fine but statistically he is actually worse than he was 3-4 years ago.
Okay that's fine but statistically he is actually worse than he was 3-4 years ago.
Barkers given two interviews this week on how the forwardline is supposed to work and it's not really about who kicks the goals as long as they are kicked. Forwards are supposed to lead to open up holes for other forwards behind them etc....
He said Henderson didn't have a great night but he's a terrific leader and he if has anything to do with it he'll be with us next year.
Forwardlines usually work when the team plays good footy, midfielders hit targets and you have multiple forward options.
We haven't done any of this for 3 or 4 years and it's untrue to say Henderson hasn't played well in that time.
Still our best forward option.
I'm struggling to see how Casboult is considered a really good player and Watson should get 5 games, but Henderson is a passenger?!!
Doesn't make sense.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-great-robert-walls-says-chris-yarran-should-be-dropped-slams-blues-performance-against-tigers/story-fni5f5nx-1227438238586
Great to have you back Wallsy and good to see you are reading my posts. ;)
Yes, he mentioned Yarran, Everitt and Menzel. You could make a good case for dropping all 3 of them. If we had some fit guys, it would be a great move. He forgot to mention Tutt, would may try to tackles but could NOT retard a 10 year old successfully.
I'm glad the Robert cares. Maybe we can find place for him somewhere. We need a few guys who really care.
I think you just hit on one of the most important points, yet one most often overlooked.
Henderson, when out on the ground, is a leader amongst the forwards. He is often directing, encouraging and sacrificing his game for the betterment of the forward line as a group.
If we took him out of it, who would be the leader?
Casboult - Not leadership materials, needs to focus on kicking straight!
Menzel - Too young, not consistent enough
Everitt - Not leadership material
Kreuzer/Wood - There part time, ruckmen first.
Hendo offers more than just stats.
I think you just hit on one of the most important points, yet one most often overlooked.
Henderson, when out on the ground, is a leader amongst the forwards. He is often directing, encouraging and sacrificing his game for the betterment of the forward line as a group.
If we took him out of it, who would be the leader?
Casboult - Not leadership materials, needs to focus on kicking straight!
Menzel - Too young, not consistent enough
Everitt - Not leadership material
Kreuzer/Wood - There part time, ruckmen first.
Hendo offers more than just stats.
Yep.
A forward line of containing just Cas and/or Watson or Rowe could well see these guys smashing into each other as the sounds effects of Australias Funniest Home Videos plays in the background.
Barkers given two interviews this week on how the forwardline is supposed to work and it's not really about who kicks the goals as long as they are kicked. Forwards are supposed to lead to open up holes for other forwards behind them etc....
He said Henderson didn't have a great night but he's a terrific leader and he if has anything to do with it he'll be with us next year.
Forwardlines usually work when the team plays good footy, midfielders hit targets and you have multiple forward options.
We haven't done any of this for 3 or 4 years and it's untrue to say Henderson hasn't played well in that time.
Still our best forward option.
I'm struggling to see how Casboult is considered a really good player and Watson should get 5 games, but Henderson is a passenger?!!
Doesn't make sense.
Well I though Cas was miles better than Henderson on Friday night.
Re Henderson perhaps passenger is a little harsh, but you talk about midfield and delivery well he gets it pretty good every week but he does not hold his marks and as astute people in the game have also commented, he doesn't want it enough, which is what I've been saying all along. You said he was average last night well TBH I saw no difference between his game last night and pretty much every game for the past two years. He just went, and that was it. Makes good leads yeah but he simply does not want to hold that mark enough, he doesn't have the ticker required. He's an underachiever in my eyes. It seems I'm not the only one that's taking note.
Well I though Cas was miles better than Henderson on Friday night.
Re Henderson perhaps passenger is a little harsh, but you talk about midfield and delivery well he gets it pretty good every week but he does not hold his marks and as astute people in the game have also commented, he doesn't want it enough, which is what I've been saying all along. You said he was average last night well TBH I saw no difference between his game last night and pretty much every game for the past two years. He just went, and that was it. Makes good leads yeah but he simply does not want to hold that mark enough, he doesn't have the ticker required.
Something that i think has changed over the past 20-30 years.
Back in the day, forwards had to be smart, or at least the good ones were. The forwards knew the subtleties of the game and exploited the backmen.
By contrast, the backmen were simply known as dumb footballers who were played back because they were not much chop elsewhere. Usually couldn't kick and would go the knuckle to square up the ledger.
Nowadays, it seems that forwards are now the more eccentric/dumb footballers. It seems that backmen are now the more astute footballers who read the play better and have to be smarter about how to defend as you can't simply chop the arms and hold like you used to be.
Some of the best forwards over the past decade are hot heads who often get the sooks. Fevola, J. Riewoldt, B. Franklin, T. Cloke, M. Richardson, B. Hall, J. Brown, J. Waite...etc
Some of the best backmen are more composed, level headed types. D. Fletcher, H. Taylor, D. Glass, A. Rance, L. Barry even Jamo etc
I think Hendo fits the 'mould' of your modern day defender. He is cool, calm and collected. He hasn't got the hot headed/agro nature required to be a modern day forward.
So yes, i agree that he doesn't seem to 'want it enough', but i think that's part of his nature and he is much better utilised as a backmen because of it.
Still....i think it's best for the team if Hendo plays forward as the next in line are simply too far behind.
Well I though Cas was miles better than Henderson on Friday night.
Re Henderson perhaps passenger is a little harsh, but you talk about midfield and delivery well he gets it pretty good every week but he does not hold his marks and as astute people in the game have also commented, he doesn't want it enough, which is what I've been saying all along. You said he was average last night well TBH I saw no difference between his game last night and pretty much every game for the past two years. He just went, and that was it. Makes good leads yeah but he simply does not want to hold that mark enough, he doesn't have the ticker required. He's an underachiever in my eyes. It seems I'm not the only one that's taking note.
Geelong disagree and look prepared to pay for it.
But it's one of those player things.
No drama.
Anyway, lets get back to whats important.
Malthouse SUCKS!!!!!!!!!! ;D
I think you just hit on one of the most important points, yet one most often overlooked.
Henderson, when out on the ground, is a leader amongst the forwards. He is often directing, encouraging and sacrificing his game for the betterment of the forward line as a group.
If we took him out of it, who would be the leader?
Casboult - Not leadership materials, needs to focus on kicking straight!
Menzel - Too young, not consistent enough
Everitt - Not leadership material
Kreuzer/Wood - There part time, ruckmen first.
Hendo offers more than just stats.
Casboult has certainly focused on kicking straight, second best in the AFL for set shot accuracy :)
I don't see why he couldn't develop into a leader. For most of this season he has been flat out just getting a game. Now that he is an established member of the team, he could well blossom. Who knows?
Henderson is quite vocal on the ground but leadership is also about setting an example and he hasn't really done that as well as he could/should.
It's a bit of a two-edged sword really; he seems to be more comfortable in defence and is more consistent as a defender BUT we desperately need a key forward.
Casboult has certainly focused on kicking straight, second best in the AFL for set shot accuracy :)
Yeah i read that, and i simply do not buy it.
That stat should come with an asterisk (*)
Casboult has only missed 4 set shots this year? 2 out on the full??
I take it that if he plays on from set shots it counts as 'in general play' and i suspect that that percentage is very low.
Yeah i read that, and i simply do not buy it.
That stat should come with an asterisk (*)
Casboult has only missed 4 set shots this year? 2 out on the full??
I take it that if he plays on from set shots it counts as 'in general play' and i suspect that that percentage is very low.
The same method of assessing set shot accuracy is applied to all ???
I think it's just a maturity issue with Henderson and the model should be the same as Neitz (and Grant to a lesser extent)where they play back until they demand the move forward. I think we'll have a better result in 3 years time - which is where we should be looking.
Well bottom line with Hendo is that he seems to be playing the role being asked of him as Barker did not seem interested at all in moving him elsewhere.
Well bottom line with Hendo is that he seems to be playing the role being asked of him as Barker did not seem interested at all in moving him elsewhere.
Don't all players hope to stay with their current clubs? Until October rolls around :))
That's the funny thing about Carrazzo, had two howlers of kicks and caught holding the ball once and 5 free's against.
It was not 1 of his better games.
That's the funny thing about Carrazzo, had two howlers of kicks and caught holding the ball once and 5 free's against.
It was not 1 of his better games.
He had more clearances than any other player. Again. Without him we lose by more no doubt. Three of those frees were paid off the ball when he was tagging. More terrible umpiring.
It was not 1 of his better games.
He had more clearances than any other CARLTON player. Again. Without him we lose by more no doubt. Three of those frees were paid off the ball when he was tagging. More terrible umpiring.
EFA.
Tigers also had 2 players with 7 clearances. One of them was Grigg, who had more touches than carrots at about the same DE%
Carrots wasn't the worst, but to say he was the best is stretching it (as the AFL website did).
You are big on tackle numbers and criticise Hendo for only having 1....well guess who else had 1. Way too low for a midefielder.
I didn't have him as BOG, I gave him 1 vote. I don't think he had a poor night but yes 1 tackle isn't good enough.
It wasn't one of the better games from Carrazzo. He went OK. I'd be using the whip on a few other players in our side based on the last game. A few repeat offenders of not having a high enough work rate.
I think Wallsy has had a look at one game and made up his mind.
Yarran and Menzel have been downhill skiers since day 1 - they like to do the flashy things but have to make a conscious effort to do the defensive work and, in Yarran's case, that only happens after he has been given a might big rev up.
Players like Tutt and Ellard have their limitations (plenty of them) but at least they go both ways with effort and without having to think about it.
I thought Wallsy nailed it.
I wouldn't hesitate to trade Hendo, Menzel and Yazz at year's end, that's Hendo the forward. Hendo the defender is well worth keeping and I bet that's exactly where the Cat's intend to play him.
Ye Rat O' the River is spot on re Menzel and Yazz.
I'd drop Menzel and play Byrne or Jaksch as the third forward. He isn't working anywhere near hard enough.
The more I think about it, Menzel and Yazz do indeed need a spell in the NBs. Everitt gets another chance in the ones as he does more good things to compensate for his shortcomings, including kicking goals.
He had more clearances than any other player. Again. Without him we lose by more no doubt. Three of those frees were paid off the ball when he was tagging. More terrible umpiring.
That's not a correct conclusion, you're assuming his replacement would fair worse which is unfounded. They may have also got the most clearances with less turnovers and we win!
I agree Yarram has his limitations, however as basically the only outside runner we have I am constantly amazed to see him isolated in the back pocket minding someone bigger and stronger, this is clearly not his go and he gets frustrated.
I can only surmise that they are trying to teach him a lesson on how to be a better backman or our defensive coach is being constantly outcoached.
He should never have been on Chapman nor minding Cotchin, he should have been up the ground providing run through the middle and passing to leading forwards.
I am slightly concerned that Barker now thinks he is a chance to get the gig and is thinking more about that than his original philosophy. We were back to numbers behind the ball bomb it long into the forward line and watch it rebound out.
Dropping Rowe, as it turned out was a massive mistake and whilst no-one could forsee the injury to Jamison it left us with few big forward or defence options.
That's not a correct conclusion, you're assuming his replacement would fair worse which is unfounded. They may have also got the most clearances with less turnovers and we win!
If his replacement could get 7 clearances they would be in the side already!
I agree Yarram has his limitations, however as basically the only outside runner we have I am constantly amazed to see him isolated in the back pocket minding someone bigger and stronger, this is clearly not his go and he gets frustrated.
I can only surmise that they are trying to teach him a lesson on how to be a better backman or our defensive coach is being constantly outcoached.
He should never have been on Chapman nor minding Cotchin, he should have been up the ground providing run through the middle and passing to leading forwards.
I am slightly concerned that Barker now thinks he is a chance to get the gig and is thinking more about that than his original philosophy. We were back to numbers behind the ball bomb it long into the forward line and watch it rebound out.
Dropping Rowe, as it turned out was a massive mistake and whilst no-one could forsee the injury to Jamison it left us with few big forward or defence options.
It was a massive mistake regardless of Jamison's injury - unless we're tanking ::)
I didn't think that Rowe was dropped, rather out with an injury and the club decided to bring him back through the NBs... probably hair-splitting/a mute point.
I didn't think that Rowe was dropped, rather out with an injury and the club decided to bring him back through the NBs... probably hair-splitting/a mute point.
He was named as emergency against the Tigers.
I agree Yarram has his limitations, however as basically the only outside runner we have I am constantly amazed to see him isolated in the back pocket minding someone bigger and stronger, this is clearly not his go and he gets frustrated.
Might be trying to get him matched up on someone other than a defensive forward because he just doesn't work hard enough to get off the leash when he is closely tagged.
I didn't think that Rowe was dropped, rather out with an injury and the club decided to bring him back through the NBs... probably hair-splitting/a mute point.
Rowe was a late withdrawal with a back problem. Not something that would require our best key defender - apart from Henderson ;) - to come back through the NBs. A very strange decision to say the least, particularly when an underdone and under performing Menzel was rushed straight back.
I would be more sympathetic if Rowe was left out to give one of the up and coming tall defenders a shot. Oh! that's right, we don't have any (with apologies to Jacksh who probably should get another game).
Rowe was a late withdrawal with a back problem. Not something that would require our best key defender - apart from Henderson ;) - to come back through the NBs. A very strange decision to say the least, particularly when an underdone and under performing Menzel was rushed straight back.
I would be more sympathetic if Rowe was left out to give one of the up and coming tall defenders a shot. Oh! that's right, we don't have any (with apologies to Jacksh who probably should get another game).
If Rowe had've been played, and his back played up on him and had to be subbed in the first quarter....everyone would've gone postal. The club gave him a chance in the 2's to test it out. He got through. Yay.
He'll be back next week.
We did give a young kid a chance. Didn't we play Fields. He wasn't great in any way, but will obviously improve with more game time.
If Rowe had've been played, and his back played up on him and had to be subbed in the first quarter....everyone would've gone postal. The club gave him a chance in the 2's to test it out. He got through. Yay.
He'll be back next week.
That's a reasonable approach atm, we aren't currently playing for sheep stations.
If Rowe had've been played, and his back played up on him and had to be subbed in the first quarter....everyone would've gone postal. The club gave him a chance in the 2's to test it out. He got through. Yay.
He'll be back next week.
He had all week to test it out ::)
If his back was suspect, he shouldn't have played with the NBs, particularly given the conditions.
By the way, what's 'gone postal'? It sounds serious ;)
By the way, what's 'gone postal'? It sounds serious ;)
It's a "mailman" thing :D
Going postal, in American English slang, means becoming extremely and uncontrollably angry, often to the point of violence, and usually in a workplace environment.
The expression derives from a series of incidents from 1986 onward in which United States Postal Service (USPS) workers shot and killed managers, fellow workers, and members of the police or general public in acts of mass murder. Between 1986 and 1997, more than 40 people were gunned down by current or former employees in at least 20 incidents of workplace rage.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-14/when-is-a-mark-not-a-mark-afl-umpires-coach-admits-mistakes-were-made-in-tigersblues-clash
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-07-14/when-is-a-mark-not-a-mark-afl-umpires-coach-admits-mistakes-were-made-in-tigersblues-clash
Now they are taking the p1ss!
He had all week to test it out ::)
If his back was suspect, he shouldn't have played with the NBs, particularly given the conditions.
By the way, what's 'gone postal'? It sounds serious ;)
The NB's played a day later than the seniors. Perhaps that, along with the 50-50 nature of his back, made the difference to playing or not.
Backs are hard to predict and look after. Maybe Thursday night when they did the teams, he was a bit stiff. Maybe he woke up friday and it was much better. Saturday it was fine. Who knows.
The question is, why risk it? What have we got to gain? We are not playing for finals.
The NB's played a day later than the seniors. Perhaps that, along with the 50-50 nature of his back, made the difference to playing or not.
Backs are hard to predict and look after. Maybe Thursday night when they did the teams, he was a bit stiff. Maybe he woke up friday and it was much better. Saturday it was fine. Who knows.
The question is, why risk it? What have we got to gain? We are not playing for finals.
That's true, but why risk it in the NBs?
That's true, but why risk it in the NBs?
I don't think Rowe was going too hard DJC, more of a "loosener". He couldn't do that in the seniors.
That's true, but why risk it in the NBs?
What was the risk there? If he doesn't feel right, he can sit the whole game out. No harm, no foul.
Its not as if the NBs are going to force him to stay out on the ground.
I don't think Rowe was going too hard DJC, more of a "loosener". He couldn't do that in the seniors.
He spent part of the game playing in the ruck Cookie and that's hardly a 'loosener' for a bloke with a crook back. I'd be more convinced if he was suffering from 'general soreness' :)
I don't think many players were going too hard when the weather turned nasty.
What was the risk there? If he doesn't feel right, he can sit the whole game out. No harm, no foul.
Its not as if the NBs are going to force him to stay out on the ground.
That's still not an ideal situation for a bloke with a crook back, particularly with the weather we had.
He spent part of the game playing in the ruck Cookie and that's hardly a 'loosener' for a bloke with a crook back. I'd be more convinced if he was suffering from 'general soreness' :)
I don't think many players were going too hard when the weather turned nasty.
Well the physical intensity of the NBs game was significantly lower than that of the Tigers game for sure.
That's still not an ideal situation for a bloke with a crook back, particularly with the weather we had.
Of course its not ideal. He is injured, there is nothing ideal about it.
What happens if he didn't play in the NBs. Comes straight back into the 1's this week? Maybe he's lost match fitness with 2 weeks of not playing....so you play him in the 2's....but thats not ideal.