Carlton Supporters Club

The difference between our best and worst is unbelievable, unfathomable
Disappointing win

We won and bank the points but heaps of work ahead - miles off a team that can cause damage in September.

Being 4-1  is one thing but with a percentage of just over 100 that says more about where we really are imo.

One of the worst wins I have witnessed, better than a loss sure but to be 50 pts up win just, horrible. You could see the boys were flat singing the song, Vossy might need to hold a 5 hr Jezza style training session on Tuesday.

Yep no enthusiasm in the song at all ...... I think they were anticipating a fair gobful from the coach, or I hope they get it, both barrels!!

The bright side is with those first halves it will eventually start carrying over to the 2nd half. Our style of play is hard a brutal but right now hard to play 4 qtrs with. That will come with more games as we develop more match hardness with the style. Not that dissimilar to the 2017 version of Richmond, who also played a hard, brutal style. We laughed loudly at them choking in games late mid season that year but they were simply brutal for 4 qtrs come September and for the next 3 years after. As bad as our last halves are now, those first halves are something to behold.

First game I’ve seen live since COVID and the result was never in doubt. The bounce of the ball and inexplicable umpiring favoured Port but we always had control of the game.

It’s hard to maintain the momentum we had in the first half and Pitto running out of puff didn’t help; two genuine ruckmen from here on please.

Parks and Cottrell were solid.  Newnes got a few touches in the first half but failed to make the most of them.  I can’t see him as a permanent fixture in the side.

Fisher was better today and had a run in the midfield for at least one centre bounce.

The defence was pretty good all day and Young is a good addition. He is clearly not happy if he loses a contest.  Newman was probably our least effective defender.

Interesting that Hinkley said in his media conference that they knew Carlton was very different in second halves to first halves.

As we've said previously, we're a work in progress. And as LAJ said, we'll learn and develop how to play this brutal brand for 4 quarters.

A few home truths wouldn't go astray.  They sure need it after serving that up.  We'd be even more exposed (and lost it) without Hewett. 

Praise them - AFL matches are hard to win.

Something along the lines of " We weren't at our best, but we got the four points and that's what matters"

Keep morale up and go again.

Dunno,  I thought one on one we looked horribly soft back of centre.  Too many defenders go to ground too easily or play off their man by a couple of metres too much.   Williams isn't the lone ranger - get very concerned when he actually has to defend.   Powell Pepper almost did as he liked in the second half, strong bodied mid sized players we have no match up.

Much improved game from Fisher today but how much better player would he be if he had a right foot

Much improved game from Fisher today but how much better player would he be if he had a right foot

Imagine Saad and Cripps with the other foot even if only half reliable, I can't believe this is a lost AFL skill!

I was actually told once at TAC Unders that it wasn't required to teach kids both sides because it wasted time and caused confusion, what a norbit!

Heath Scotland and Nathan Buckley say hello!

Special mention to Adam Saad who is fasting during Ramadan and can still perform at an elite level...... especially on such a hot day (no water!!)  Strong of mind no doubt.

Special mention to Adam Saad who is fasting during Ramadan and can still perform at an elite level...... especially on such a hot day (no water!!)  Strong of mind no doubt.

Had no idea about no water during ramadan  ... VERY commendable

We won. we were lucky.

The bright side is with those first halves it will eventually start carrying over to the 2nd half. Our style of play is hard a brutal but right now hard to play 4 qtrs with. That will come with more games as we develop more match hardness with the style. Not that dissimilar to the 2017 version of Richmond, who also played a hard, brutal style. We laughed loudly at them choking in games late mid season that year but they were simply brutal for 4 qtrs come September and for the next 3 years after. As bad as our last halves are now, those first halves are something to behold.

I think that’s fair commentary Jim. Apparently the players have fully bought into Vossy’s approach that requires  all in effort at all times to win contested ball. Our fitness level does not sustain that for much more than half a game atm but hopefully it will come, and when/if it does then fasten seatbelts!!

Forget all the objectives Vossy, you MUST get to the bottom of the mental capitulations.

I fear he'll need to be a Sigmund Freud to do that @Gointocarlton ... but you're right.

To fall over the line against two teams that have a combined 2 outta 10 wins is not something to crow about

Had no idea about no water during ramadan  ... VERY commendable

Not sure that is right. I think he may have special dispensation from an Iman to drink or eat during games as required to enable him to preform at the required level.

It would be impossible for him to preform at that level without water or food, especially in the hot conditions such as we experienced today.

He maybe be required to fast at other times during Ramadan.

If someone has more info on this I would certainly be interested in hearing about it.

If someone has more info on this I would certainly be interested in hearing about it.

I do know Bachar Houli did not drink during daylight hours on game day.

Apparently the trick for sportspeople is the start fasting a week or two earlier, so that their stomach shrinks a bit and they can fill up easily pre-dawn game day during Ramadan. He found managing the amount of food and drink rather than overloading gave him a better result.

Carlton players for the past 25 years have picked and chosen when they are going to play. They chose to play in the first half and they chose not to play in the second. This has been going on for decades and not just years. It is a cultural thing. They feel comfortable so they drop their effort. The other team sense it and come hard, our players panic, stop running, stop playing for the team, revert to self preservation, kicking it anywhere and hoping someone else will stand up and save the day. Had a Port Adelaide kid in front of me who was almost crying in the first half, had to tell him last season Port absolutely slaughtered us, and told his dad that Carlton could lose it from here. His dad didn't believe me. I had to assure him that Carlton may not turn up after half time. Now if I knew that sitting, in the outer, never played an AFL game in my life, how is it our players don't seem to know it. I refuse to get enthused or energised by Carlton until they are willing to turn up week in and week out and try. I don't care whether we win or lose, though I prefer to win obviously, but what I want are players who will have a red hot go every time, not just when it suits them. I can barrack for a team that has a go. Don't explain away losses, don't excuse lack of effort, don't expect it will all turn around one day. Until the players say no more it is not going to change.

Forget all the objectives Vossy, you MUST get to the bottom of the mental capitulations.

Thinking it is more a chance our style of play, being so hard and brutal, we can't yet sustain it for 4 qtrs. We need more games before we adapt, like Richmond had to in 2017. What is happening though, when severely challenged on the scoreboard, we have found a resilience despite the fatigue (not sure what happened to that against the GC). Port had 11 min to hit the front and couldn't. Hawthorn did get in front but we found a way and the Dogs come right back but couldn't close any further once within 12pts.

I fear he'll need to be a Sigmund Freud to do that @Gointocarlton ... but you're right.

To fall over the line against two teams that have a combined 2 outta 10 wins is not something to crow about

Its hurting us in the sense that we are 36% off 2nd place on the ladder equal on points but about to be 6th once Freo finish off the Cheats and 7th tomorrow when Geel account for Haw. Winning is better than losing sure but this going up big leads will cost us eventually.

Coaching group have barely been together and got a handle on the squad. We are travelling well - in the top eight after five rounds.

Prefer to be holding on to leads than chasing all game in epic come back wins or honourable losses. Port has a Prelim squad that is bound to bounce back sooner or later - we held them off and walked away with the chocolates without playing perfect football.

Thinking it is more a chance our style of play, being so hard and brutal, we can't yet sustain it for 4 qtrs. We need more games before we adapt, like Richmond had to in 2017. What is happening though, when severely challenged on the scoreboard, we have found a resilience despite the fatigue (not sure what happened to that against the GC). Port had 11 min to hit the front and couldn't. Hawthorn did get in front but we found a way and the Dogs come right back but couldn't close any further once within 12pts.

We were VERY lucky to get the win today, make no mistake about it. Nothing resilient about it, pure luck.
Last week we travelled to GC thinking we just had to turn up and collect 4 points, we had our pants pulled down and made to assume the position.
Today the boys were very happy with themselves at 1/2 time and then didn't turn up after the main break as in their minds they thought they would go on with it.
I don't buy the lines about not being able to sustain the game style, they have been prepared for it and have shown they can execute it. There are too many that go missing for large patches, IMO its between the ears and not in the legs.

Not sure that is right. I think he may have special dispensation from an Iman to drink or eat during games as required to enable him to preform at the required level.

It would be impossible for him to preform at that level without water or food, especially in the hot conditions such as we experienced today.

He maybe be required to fast at other times during Ramadan.

If someone has more info on this I would certainly be interested in hearing about it.

You’re right, Adam would have dispensation to eat and drink as necessary in order to be able to do what’s required of him at training and on game day.  The dietician would have worked out an eating plan for him and it must be spot on because his energy levels are right up there.

Bank the 4 points no matter how ugly it was to watch and move on. Keep developing the squad and finding the best roles for each player.

We were VERY lucky to get the win today, make no mistake about it. Nothing resilient about it, pure luck.
Last week we travelled to GC thinking we just had to turn up and collect 4 points, we had our pants pulled down and made to assume the position.
Today the boys were very happy with themselves at 1/2 time and then didn't turn up after the main break as in their minds they thought they would go on with it.
I don't buy the lines about not being able to sustain the game style, they have been prepared for it and have shown they can execute it. There are too many that go missing for large patches, IMO its between the ears and not in the legs.

Unfortunately, it is a bit new. They can execute the game style but it is a highly fatiguing. That can take a while. They are humans, not robots. A few months in pre-season won't do it. Need games to adapt. We used to laugh at Richmond choking in games late mid 2017 with they're brutal style of play, then September came and kept coming. Fact is, each time we have been severely challenged on the scoreboard we have won. That has been in all 4 of our wins. Has to be resilience. Port drew within a kick with 11 minutes to go coming like a tidal wave. We again found a way when we should have been run over. Can't argue with all that.

Forget all the objectives Vossy, you MUST get to the bottom of the mental capitulations.

Absolutely no mental capitulation today!

Tired legs and the rub of the green against us but we fought that out with everything we had.

Very proud of the boys today!

A few tweaks to the game plan, personnel and training loads and a top 4 finish isn’t out of the question.

The worst bit about a win like this is you can't really sit back and watch the replay, because after half-time we were just bit players in a Port fairy-tale finish. Really don't know where we are at. Beat Richmond, who have shown they are off the mark. Beat bulldogs, who have shown thy aren't really at their peak. Beat Dawks who have shown they are pretenders. Lost to GC because we saved our worst performance to date for them. Now we've beaten Port who are 5 and zip. Still not sure if we've improved or just been lucky.

We're playing some of the best football I have seen in a long while.
The boys digging in last 5-7 minutes with determination to win against Hawks and Port was really good actually.
We have Freo next at Freo and even if we lose I think the contested hard nosed football suits the players
When we are on moving the ball it is something to behold. We will blow teams out of the water sooner or later.

The game plan is not sustainable for 4 quarters.

....but it doesn't have to be.

We just have to be good enough, for long enough, and hold onto the lead that we've created.

In time, we'll get match fit and be able to sustain the intensity for longer, meaning less time for the opposition  to get a hold of us.

Also, we'll get better at identifying and stopping the run ons that let the opposition back in it.

Happy to bank the 4 points this week and maintain our grasp on top4-top8

Our A game is very good but is almost totally reliant on centre clearances and fast delivery to our key forwards before the opposition can get extras back to fill up spaces. McKay (in particular) is creating opportunities for small forwards even when unable to mark the ball.  However - as others have said - our A game requires high intensity running and the players are not yet able to perform at that level for 4 quarters.  I don't believe it is lack of effort, which could have been alleged in some seasons.

A reasonable effort by the match committee for a change -

- Pittonet was outstanding early - in the ruck and on the ground - and Silvagni was an excellent contributor against non-ruckman opponents - however, I think we need a better back up ruckman unless the opposition is similarly limited.
- Newnes performed admirably (especially early) and seemed more dangerous in attack (although he missed some opportunities) than LOB has been.
- Cottrell was good enough and earned his spot.
- Parks still has something to prove but we needed someone to provide an overhead spoiling option to play as a 3rd tall defender and the only other option (until Gov returns) might have been Plowman or Kemp (if he is available) so he was worth a shot.

Went and watched the match live and every Carlton supporter around us even with a 50 odd point lead knew we were not safe even vs a undermanned Port.
I felt our key forwards were the difference but it was a poor brand we played after half time. Didn't feel we exploited the Port lack of ruck experience and we had several players who were liabilities.
Setterfield is a poor decision maker and average disposer of the football and how he remains in the team baffles me.
Parks is a VFL player and panic merchant when under pressure. Sure he gives effort but has little composure imho.
Young did some ok things and was handy.
Cottrell was good and got better as the game went on and while no star is a reliable player in terms of contesting and taking the safe option.
Happy to take the 4 points but it's not a win you could take comfort from apart from known quantities like Walsh, Hewett, Saad, Silvagni etc.
.

[1] Opposition coaches are becoming aware of our game plan, which depends almost totally on getting centre clearances to score. When we dominate the centre, we score easily. When we don't, we struggle.
Today, when Hayes started getting used to how Pittonet rucked, we lost all momentum in the middle of the ground. The lad looks like he is going to be good ruck. He rucks at least as well as Lycett already. Lycett does better around the ground and has the strength and guile.
Not having a proper second ruck option hurt today. Jack Silvagni tried hard, but Hayes had 10 cm on him and got his hand to the ball. We are a much better side when jack is in the forward line, as clubs are now aware of what he brings on the ball.
It would be very nice for us if Tom de Koning could step up. He has the raw athleticism to embarrass other rucks around the ground, but we don't tend to kick to him and he doesn't tend to work hard enough to get good position.
We probably need him to improve significantly, not impossible, or to have Mirkov come good. Mirkov also has the raw athleticism, but he is some way off yet.

[2] Our defence is not yet what it could be. of our taller defenders, only Jacob Weitering trusts himself to take a big mark in defence. That doesn't mean either Young or Parks isn't up to it, but it does restrict their possessions: our smaller defenders tend to get the kicks out of defence because they can provide the run.
Our small defenders get a fair bit of ball, but we don't seem to get the drive from them: things seem to break down before we can get decent entries, unless we dominate the centre.
We also appear to give too much room for people at times. I would like our players to be closer.

[3] When we stop scoring, our small forward drop our of the game totally. When we get the ball into our forward line, Fisher, Owies and Durdin tend to make a significant contribution. When we don't, they don't get a touch. All of them need to work on their one on one contests, because, if we win them, they not only get more possessions, but we get deep entrees.
Today. Fisher had a bigger game and made more of a contribution, but he gets pushed out of the way too easily. Same goes for Owies and Durdin. However, they would get more ball if they worked that big harder and were a bit faster, neither of which is impossible.
Maybe Phlip might be an answer. He is taller and has some real pace. More importantly, he gets his foot to the ball quickly when the goals are close. Cuningham could also bring something here, as he can win his won ball.

[4] Setterfield, Newnes and O'Brien are doing enough not to get dropped, as a general rule, but don't make that big contribution that would make the difference. Newnes was very good early today, but dropped out of the game. Setters wasn't bad, but he isn't giving us the drive from defence that we need to give us a plan B. Jack Carroll or Liam Stocker could be options here, as they have intensity.

Young,  Parks and setterfield are the weak links in our current line-up.

Young is still...well....Young and needs time to grow.
Similar with parks, but he has probably exceeded what we'd expect from him and has probably reached his ceiling or is very close to it.
Setters has had enough time now that he is over his knee issues, is back up to afl speed.....but is still making some rookie mistakes.

We desperately need to draft (and recruit) a key defender as we are light on for confirmed talent down back. Weitering, obviously, but make shift/unproven options for support from young, omac, gov, plow, parks, Kemp? Marchbank?? Hopefully we can find a chb and a 3rd back from that list, but until we do we keep looking.

So hopefully omac, gov and Cunners take the spot of Young, parks and setters and provide a bit more of an even, more consistent performance in the near future

Setters has had enough time now that he is over his knee issues, is back up to afl speed.....but is still making some rookie mistakes.

He seems to be better this season as a link in the handball chains and for his defensive coverage.  My biggest problem with him is that he often kicks across the body and puts too much air under the ball whenever corralled or under pressure - too slow getting his foot to the ball and might be better if he sticks to hand-passing.

Our A game is very good but is almost totally reliant on centre clearances and fast delivery to our key forwards before the opposition can get extras back to fill up spaces. McKay (in particular) is creating opportunities for small forwards even when unable to mark the ball.  However - as others have said - our A game requires high intensity running and the players are not yet able to perform at that level for 4 quarters.  I don't believe it is lack of effort, which could have been alleged in some seasons.

A reasonable effort by the match committee for a change -

Yes, they made improvements for today. Let's see a bit more of that.

- Pittonet was outstanding early - in the ruck and on the ground - and Silvagni was an excellent contributor against non-ruckman opponents - however, I think we need a better back up ruckman unless the opposition is similarly limited.

I have already mentioned this. We really need a second ruckman to give Pitto a break. He showed against Hawthorn last year that he can make goals as a resting ruck, but he rarely plays there. We were good early against the Dogs and the Tigers because de Koning rucked well against his opponents. It meant that Pitto was always fresh. Hasn't been the case since.

- Newnes performed admirably (especially early) and seemed more dangerous in attack (although he missed some opportunities) than LOB has been.

Early in the game Newnes really made a mark. He was trying to say that he wanted for game time. Yes, he made a few mistakes, especially in his disposal, but he tried hard. After half time he struggled. That might mean trouble for him if we get something close to a full list.
O'Brien has been better this year, but he very disappointing in the 2's today. He has to make a mark there, or he won't play when guys like Honey are available.

- Cottrell was good enough and earned his spot.

We used Cottrell a lot more intelligently today. We kicked it to him when he was open and he didn't let the side down. He has a way to go, but his ability to run out games should help us until our overall fitness level is enough to play our A game.

- Parks still has something to prove but we needed someone to provide an overhead spoiling option to play as a 3rd tall defender and the only other option (until Gov returns) might have been Plowman or Kemp (if he is available) so he was worth a shot.

I think we are missing Plow in a lot of ways. He isn't the super-defender we hoped for, but when he is fit and in form, he makes interceptions and he keeps his opponents honest. At the moment, he doesn't look fit. Did he get injured during the pre-season? It looks that way. He certainly has lost the self confidence he had when he was our best lock-down defender. I think he can get it back, but it might be a way off yet. Still, his form in the 2's suggests he is on the way back.
Parks hasn't got the confidence to take the grabs yet. He does that in the VFL. If he can get that confidence, he'll become a much more effective player. In the meantime, we need McGovern back.

At the moment, Oscar Mac is probably a better option that Young, as he does have the confidence to take a grab and make space. he also tends to make a few errors and is not as athletic as Young. In the longer term, Young will be the preferred option, but he isn't there yet.
I liked Young's last quarter. That little extra athleticism got him to contests, which he affected. Could have been game changing.

Getting Marchbank, McGovern, Stocker, Cunningham, Honey and even Carroll is something I am looking forward to.

Young,  Parks and setterfield are the weak links in our current line-up.

Young is still...well....Young and needs time to grow.
Similar with parks, but he has probably exceeded what we'd expect from him and has probably reached his ceiling or is very close to it.
Setters has had enough time now that he is over his knee issues, is back up to afl speed.....but is still making some rookie mistakes.

We desperately need to draft (and recruit) a key defender as we are light on for confirmed talent down back. Weitering, obviously, but make shift/unproven options for support from young, omac, gov, plow, parks, Kemp? Marchbank?? Hopefully we can find a chb and a 3rd back from that list, but until we do we keep looking.

So hopefully omac, gov and Cunners take the spot of Young, parks and setters and provide a bit more of an even, more consistent performance in the near future

At the moment Kemp is not looking like it. I would switch him back to defence and keep him there until his confidence is up. He is getting to contests, but not close to holding marks. Some of that is confidence.

I wouldn't put much hope on Marchbank. He has a lot going for him when he is fit, but he isn't a strong physical player, something we could do with. After so many injuries, I just can't see him fulfilling his potential.

Carroll could be a player, but he goes missing. He could well be very useful on a wing. He also has a more penetrating kick than Setts does. For that matter, so does Stocker.

He seems to be better this season as a link in the handball chains and for his defensive coverage.  My biggest problem with him is that he often kicks across the body and puts too much air under the ball whenever corralled or under pressure - too slow getting his foot to the ball and might be better if he sticks to hand-passing.

I think he is a slow thinker.
We see it with not understanding the pressure he is under and gets tackled whilst displaying little urgency. I think that does indeed extend to his kicking sometimes. He telegraphs what he is going to do and the opposition are awareness it before he is aware of them. This presents itself in poor kicks, kicks being smothered and simply bad options being taken.

I've been a bog wrap for him, but he doesn't seem to be making the strides forward we all hoped. He will be overtaken soon enough.

4 points is 4 points.

We bank them and move on.  This one and the hawthorn match might cost us top 4 in percentage but its a bit early for that.

5 rounds in when was the last time we were in the 8 the whole way?  2011?

He seems to be better this season as a link in the handball chains and for his defensive coverage.  My biggest problem with him is that he often kicks across the body and puts too much air under the ball whenever corralled or under pressure - too slow getting his foot to the ball and might be better if he sticks to hand-passing.

I think he is a slow thinker.
We see it with not understanding the pressure he is under and gets tackled whilst displaying little urgency. I think that does indeed extend to his kicking sometimes. He telegraphs what he is going to do and the opposition are awareness it before he is aware of them. This presents itself in poor kicks, kicks being smothered and simply bad options being taken.

I've been a bog wrap for him, but he doesn't seem to be making the strides forward we all hoped. He will be overtaken soon enough.

Yep, couldn't agree more and wouldn't be in my team moving forward.
Just a liability today and I'd be moving him on at seasons end.

I didn’t see the game as I was doing the family thing. I checked the scores regularly though. Like our boys I nearly choked in q3😬 when our lead evaporated. That definitely put me off my chocolate.

I’m not sure what to make of us atm. We’re definitely better than recent years. Our best is super. Our lapses are devastatingly costly.

Until we can balance our performance, it’s going to be a tense time for us all. Particularly when our defence is not as robust as we’d like. Meanwhile. Banking the points will at least keep the media off our back, and hopefully keep the belief alive. It feels a bit like a “fake it until you make it” start to me.

Great to hear from those at the game. Thanks for your views👏
Go Blues

Fake it until you make it. Spot on!

I'll take that for now. I'll take 4 and 1 any time especially when we're only really playing 2 quarters a game.

Every game so far Charlie has dropped a few sitters and got his hands on a few pack marks but dropped them. Imagine what he's going to bed like when his confidence is up and going.

Still a lot of fluency yet to come across the board with players getting used to each other and new game plan. And some talent to come back in.

I don't expect to get the choccies against the frockers next week.

But i am looking forward to when everything clicks for real.

Too many average players in the side and if it was not for some great efforts by Young and Newman  in the last qtr we may have been discussing a loss.

Rather than fitness our midfield and defensive six are not great at maintaining structure behind the ball, nor are they making good decisions under pressure/fatigue - part of this is physical as many have suggested, but I’d say the issue is mostly mental.  Are our players intelligent enough to know where they need to stand/understand players next option and position as a defensive unit to cut it off? Do they keep their composure under pressure? Do they know when and how to play tempo footy? Do they know not to telegraph their next move so as to invite pressure on the player receiving the ball? Do they will themselves to stick a tackle when a side is surging?? 

Unfortunately, the reality is that the answer to many of the questions above (not all) for players such as Newnes, Cottrell, Parks, Boyd, LoB & Plowman is a resounding “no” so if we are to be successful this year it’s very clearly a specific role or the VFL for the majority of these guys.

Hamill also has a lot of work to do on the back six - our third tall in defence simply isn’t working in McGovern’s absence and we know that we can’t rely on Mitch’s body holding up. We also haven’t found a reliable, strong lockdown defender for opposition small forwards. Whilst there are not too many options on the list, I’d start seriously considering playing DeKoning at CHB, Weitering FB and Young (or potentially Kemp) 3rd tall until McGovern returns. Additionally, TDK gives us some structural flexibility if needed. For the lockdown defender, Fogarty/Cottrell may be worth testing in that role as I don’t think that Stocker is quick or agile enough to play the role.

We also desperately need some pace - Dow, Philp would both be handy additions and I don’t accept the assertion that Newnes/Cottrell are better on the wing than Dow.

Lots to think through because the current combination won’t get the job done against a decent side.

I wouldn't put much hope on Marchbank. He has a lot going for him when he is fit, but he isn't a strong physical player, something we could do with. After so many injuries, I just can't see him fulfilling his potential.

Would have said the same thing about Charlie Curnow at about this time last year! 5 goals today was handy

The worst bit about a win like this is you can't really sit back and watch the replay, because after half-time we were just bit players in a Port fairy-tale finish. Really don't know where we are at. Beat Richmond, who have shown they are off the mark. Beat bulldogs, who have shown thy aren't really at their peak. Beat Dawks who have shown they are pretenders. Lost to GC because we saved our worst performance to date for them. Now we've beaten Port who are 5 and zip. Still not sure if we've improved or just been lucky.

Exactly how I’m feeling. I think we have improved we are deeper in the midfield and have solid forward targets but still we can’t be relied upon to put a side on the ropes away and the better teams do this.

Apart from round one win the other 3 have had big swings and could have easily gone the other way so while I’m pleased to get another win I’m not as optimistic as many and imo we will need to improve on what we have seen to make finals.

Todays performance would not get us the points against any of the other top 8 teams and many outside the 8.

Take the points and move to next week. Freo in Perth is a tough game and will tell us a lot imo.

I have never seen a team that is so comprehensively brilliant, and then so totally unimaginative, all in the same game.  We are 4-1, but with a percentage of 102.  Good we have the points, but in all of the wins, we have had patches that were simply atrocious. 

After the first half heroics, I sat down to watch the second half hoping this might be the time where we really blow someone away.   Could not believe what I was watching after that.  First rule I was taught - if you have a good lead at half time, you go out there hell-bent on kicking the first two goals in the 3rd, with the aim of crushing the opposition's spirit.

The same thing has happened against the Bulldogs, Hawks and Power - we have precious little run to take the ball from one end of the ground to the other.  Also happened against the Suns, but we had no lead on the scoreboard to buffer us. Its like we lose all sense of what put us in front in the first place, and we go into some sort of defensive, stodgy mode.  If you think about it, we did the same in many games last year, but without first building the big lead.

Quite simply, we need

(1) far more backline run, ie Williams and Saad.  McGovern will help, as will Stocker.
(2) more pressure around the ball in play - centre clearances are one thing, but our long bombs to the wing come back with monotonous regularity, as we are out-worked on the ground
(3) we need more goals from the midfield - we are getting almost none because there is no dash out of the backline.
(4) a sense of ruthless hunger (not the defensive mindset that seems to happen as soon as the opposition kicks 2 or more in a row)
 
Can't believe that I am complaining about a 4-1 start..... 

Stocker for Setterfield?
Plowman got pantsed by Breust in Round 3, and it was this that sparked them.
Not quick enough against that type of opponent, and not tall enough to match a key forward.
Not sure that we can have both Owies and Durdin in the same team, though both are contributing. Yes I remember the 3 amigos of a decade ago, or “Setanta’s little helpers”
But Jack S forward instead of one of them?

Four Points: Carlton’s ‘first-world problem’, The Age. (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-carlton-s-first-world-problem-hinkley-s-0-5-hole-simplifying-holding-the-ball-20220417-p5ae0s.html)

A win without out our Capt, take that any day.
Can we please,  PLEASE when we kick the ball to Harry or Charlie we kick it in front of them NOT on top of their heads.
Both when they have a run onto a marking contest they are almost unbeatable but when they have to just stand and try to take a mark they are easy to defend.
Both are athletic and are troubling defenders.
When the ball is kicked to where they are standing all the holding and scragging by the defenders is not seen by the umps but when they are on the move to a contest the infringements are easily picked up.
A win is a win and at 4-1 playing badly is heaps better than playing you're absolute best and just scraping over the line.
Being starved of success for so long we want it to be pretty but great teams find ways to win ugly and we are learning to win ugly.

A win without out our Capt, take that any day.
Can we please,  PLEASE when we kick the ball to Harry or Charlie we kick it in front of them NOT on top of their heads.
Both when they have a run onto a marking contest they are almost unbeatable but when they have to just stand and try to take a mark they are easy to defend.
Both are athletic and are troubling defenders.
When the ball is kicked to where they are standing all the holding and scragging by the defenders is not seen by the umps but when they are on the move to a contest the infringements are easily picked up.
A win is a win and at 4-1 playing badly is heaps better than playing you're absolute best and just scraping over the line.
Being starved of success for so long we want it to be pretty but great teams find ways to win ugly and we are learning to win ugly.

Summed it up nicely, while it would be great to believe we have become a powerhouse team overnight, reality is we are still a work in progress showing some impressive glimpses of what we’re capable of but still subject to lapses that were  all to common in previous years. It will take time and they’re will be some bumps in the road but for the first time in ages we seem to be unified as a club and what we’re aiming for.

Four Points: Carlton’s ‘first-world problem’, The Age. (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-points-carlton-s-first-world-problem-hinkley-s-0-5-hole-simplifying-holding-the-ball-20220417-p5ae0s.html)

Good article. Stating the bloomin' obvious, but doing it well and with important balance.

Yes, there is still a bit of the 'same old, same old' about our 'fades.' But our good is much better than our good of many previous years... which makes the fades all the more galling. A glaring contrast.

However, we're 5 games into a 23 game season (and hopefully more). And although some may think that the instituted changes from last year are small, they aint. Our blokes are learning a few very important differences... and culture, to previous years. And these differences involve a far greater work ethic/intensity and focus - something we've not done for years. Plus learning how to create and maintain a whole of side connect - the very foundations of cohesion.

Yes, we squander big leads, but we don't give up and this not giving up is new. These blokes want to win.

Strong change takes time. Turning a very different game plan into habit, takes time.

With the evenness of the competition the expectation of turning a seven goal lead into a twelve goal win, at this stage of our development is probably unrealistic.

Learning to handle being the hunted is new for us and will take time to learn how to expect/absorb and counter.

And as I've mentioned previously, we have an entirely new coaching group and no matter how brilliant our pre season/preparation was (and it was obviously first rate), you do your most important and effective learning in the heat of battle, and that's when the new coaches learn the most about our list.

Fortunately, our weaknesses are on full display now. And it'll take time to deal with and remove them. But I have genuine confidence in our coaching and playing group to address this effectively. We know we have the players to succeed, now they have to get used to knowing this.

Rarely does any side get to field, on any given week, its best 23. And our injury list is longer than most.

As has been said, it's better to be learning with Ws than Ls. We have plenty of Ls within games but are coming away with a W.

Summed it up nicely, while it would be great to believe we have become a powerhouse team overnight, reality is we are still a work in progress showing some impressive glimpses of what we’re capable of but still subject to lapses that were  all to common in previous years. It will take time and they’re will be some bumps in the road but for the first time in ages we seem to be unified as a club and what we’re aiming for.

Well said. Well summarised.

Would have said the same thing about Charlie Curnow at about this time last year! 5 goals today was handy

100 % correct. But Charlie is a different type of player. I hope that Marchbank can come back, but I no longer expect it.

There have been teams that have coasted to 4-1 on the back of an ideal preseason with few injuries only to fade when injuries mount. That's not our situation. We had a substantial injury list leading into round 1 headed by our B&F from last year and every round has brought a new set of H&S protocol omissions or significant injuries (McGovern & Cripps). It's still possible we'll fade if we cop further injuries but it's amazing we've done as well as we have given the above. 

100 % correct. But Charlie is a different type of player. I hope that Marchbank can come back, but I no longer expect it.

Been far too long out of the game.  He should find another career.

Been far too long out of the game.  He should find another career.

I saw our Test Cricket Captain out of the side for 6 years with constant injuries. You just never know.

There have been teams that have coasted to 4-1 on the back of an ideal preseason with few injuries only to fade when injuries mount. That's not our situation. We had a substantial injury list leading into round 1 headed by our B&F from last year and every round has brought a new set of H&S protocol omissions or significant injuries (McGovern & Cripps). It's still possible we'll fade if we cop further injuries but it's amazing we've done as well as we have given the above.

Yep. We will be a lot better with the likes of Gov, Mack, Ed C, Phillp, Cunners and Honey back in the side, although  I have my doubts over the durability of a couple.
Interesting to to best players in the reserves were all VFL listed bar from the  Plow.

Still have big concerns over our fitness guru. We don't seem to be able to run games out.
Maybe I'm old school but I hear about training blocks and workloads. Your either fit or your not.

My 5 cents

We are destroying sides in the first half of games with our brutal game style. Only a matter if time before our aerobic fitness improves for us to carry it over to the 2nd half. 3 games, plus the NAB game against Melbourne we have run out to huge leads only to struggle in the 2nd half, but the fact we can run out to such leads is a massive sign. Just need the rest to come together.

Yep. We will be a lot better with the likes of Gov, Mack, Ed C, Phillp, Cunners and Honey back in the side, although  I have my doubts over the durability of a couple.
Interesting to to best players in the reserves were all VFL listed bar from the  Plow.

Still have big concerns over our fitness guru. We don't seem to be able to run games out.
Maybe I'm old school but I hear about training blocks and workloads. Your either fit or your not.

My 5 cents

Don't worry about the fitness guru. He has the runs on the board at Hawthorn. The game style is extremely difficult aerobically and takes games before you can fully adapt to it. Fitness isn't black or white it develops and gets better.

Don't worry about the fitness guru. He has the runs on the board at Hawthorn. The game style is extremely difficult aerobically and takes games before you can fully adapt to it. Fitness isn't black or white it develops and gets better.

He is found wanting and I'm far from convinced.  He ain't no guru

And well into his fourth year

He is found wanting and I'm far from convinced.  He ain't no guru

And well into his fourth year

Much harder, physically demanding game style. Only way you adapt to that is games. Like I said, he has the runs on the board with Hawthorn. No such thing as a guru, body gets strength and fitness in it's own time, unless you are the Weapon and Steve Dank. Some are simply better than others.

Yep. We will be a lot better with the likes of Gov, Mack, Ed C, Phillp, Cunners and Honey back in the side, although  I have my doubts over the durability of a couple.
Interesting to to best players in the reserves were all VFL listed bar from the  Plow.

Still have big concerns over our fitness guru. We don't seem to be able to run games out.
Maybe I'm old school but I hear about training blocks and workloads. Your either fit or your not.

My 5 cents

I've just watched the last quarter again and I can't see signs of our fitness level being a cause of our  problem.

For the first fifteen minutes it was Port wanting the ball more than we did and when they went into attack they looked to break up our defence by kicking to position.

On the other hand we went back to our old habit of total predictability by kicking long down the line on the heads of our forwards in the hope  that luck would favour us.

Fitness is not our problem, it's what is happening between the ears that needs attention.

Don't worry about the fitness guru. He has the runs on the board at Hawthorn. The game style is extremely difficult aerobically and takes games before you can fully adapt to it. Fitness isn't black or white it develops and gets better.

The Terrier got Charlie back on the park and in career best form.  How many folk here were convinced that Charlie would never play again?

Russell deserves a contract extension just for his work with Charlie.

Imagine how good we'll be when Russell has the squad at peak fitness for the pointy end of the season.

If it were just a fitness issue, I'd think that would play out more as the 3rd Q dragged on. I can't imagine it would prevent a concerted effort in the 1st 5 minutes of Q3 after a 20 minute break.

The Terrier got Charlie back on the park and in career best form.  How many folk here were convinced that Charlie would never play again?

Russell deserves a contract extension just for his work with Charlie.

Imagine how good we'll be when Russell has the squad at peak fitness for the pointy end of the season.

I partly agree, but I do not get the team's apparent flatness in such extended bursts, it may not be so much physical but a mental fitness that is lacking.

Are we already looking a bit fatigued at Rnd. 5, even if it's only mental fatigue?

I won't be overly focussed on physical fitness, because in reality if Charlie hangs on to two F50 chest marks after half time and kicks straight we probably win comfortably. He got into those positions and his opponents could not go with him, so he can't be unfit, but doing the hard work then dropping the baby mark is perhaps a concentration / pressure issue. Fwiw, I think BigH dropped one as well that caused a turnover goal. They both seem to be unable to relax into the mark after having done all the hard work.

We still have a couple of kids who stand waiting for the football to come to them, it's cost us several goals over the last couple of weeks and probably adds up to a 5 or 6 goal turnaround over two games.

I think we cannot get Gov back soon enough, he brings a competency and calmness, I bet some of you didn't expect anyone to be writing that by Rnd 5!

Also, I'm a Weiters booster but he's going a bit over the top with the punching, when he is so well clear of his opponents and head and shoulders above others in contest he could clearly mark the ball and thus change some momentum. I've noticed two weeks in a row he changes from punching to marking late in games, but he'd be better off to do this dynamically for four quarters rather than in a formulaic manner which I think makes him too predictable. When he sees the opposition roving his punches he should start marking the ball more often and utilising the fact the opponents are then out of position.

No such thing as a guru, body gets strength and fitness in it's own time

That was your label .... not mine.

Yesterday was hot, the footy gets greasy, probably even more slippery than when it's raining. We missed several set shots at goal from 30m out, and each time the ball seemed to slide off the foot.

Do modern AFL players not have the basic skill / knowledge of kicking the footy with the lacing down when the set shot is inside 30 - 35m range? You obviously cannot kick it as far, but making contact with the lace side means it certainly won't slide off the boot, and you are forced to kick through the footy just to get it to 40m!.

Maybe it hurts their little tootsies too much!

Do modern AFL players not have the basic skill / knowledge of kicking the footy with the lacing down when the set shot is inside 30 - 35m range? You obviously cannot kick it as far, but making contact with the lace side means it certainly won't slide off the boot, and you are forced to kick through the footy just to get it to 40m!.

Never once kicked a Sherrin that way.  Laces out always for me

Never once kicked a Sherrin that way.  Laces out always for me

Was a basic skill years ago, taught to me as a junior by Lethal.

Yesterday was hot, the footy gets greasy, probably even more slippery than when it's raining. We missed several set shots at goal from 30m out, and each time the ball seemed to slide off the foot.

Do modern AFL players not have the basic skill / knowledge of kicking the footy with the lacing down when the set shot is inside 30 - 35m range? You obviously cannot kick it as far, but making contact with the lace side means it certainly won't slide off the boot, and you are forced to kick through the footy just to get it to 40m!.

Maybe it hurts their little tootsies too much!

I was taught to do that only when it was bucketing down and the footy was a slippery as a greased pig.  It certainly wasn't a thing during my brief career in the sticky conditions of the QAFL.  I probably kicked the ball that way four or five times in my life  :)

Of course, we had to make do with one footy rather than the bag of footies at each end of the ground now.

We are destroying sides in the first half of games with our brutal game style. Only a matter if time before our aerobic fitness improves for us to carry it over to the 2nd half. 3 games, plus the NAB game against Melbourne we have run out to huge leads only to struggle in the 2nd half, but the fact we can run out to such leads is a massive sign. Just need the rest to come together.

Fitness is one angle but we also seem to go cold on contesting and chasing too, I was at the game and when Powell Pepper decided to get involved after half time a few of our blokes reverted to short steps and one arm tackles when PP went hard at the ball and were waiting for the next bloke to do the hard stuff. Port started to win around the contests and thats where we got into trouble IMHO.

Just watching the second half again, put this in your review, Vossy

* why are so many guys slowly jogging while the ball is about to come into the area?  Get on your bike and find a contest.  Far too many uncontested marks.   We let opposition teams ping-pong down the wing with little thought of manning up.  I know some refer to it as zone defense - that's great on a basketball court, but on a footy field, it lets the opposition own the ball and squeeze us out of the contest.

* provide options when we are coming out of our defence - have a look at the replays of our kick ins, absolutely no movement, so the opposition know it is simply going to be the bail-out kick to the half back flank or a 15m deep into a pocket.  So predictable, little wonder we can't get it out of there.

* forwards - stay in front of your man for a centre bounce!  Kicks coming out of the middle are often scrambled.  Most of the half-kicks we had out of the middle were either marked by Port half-backs or easily cleaned up because they were there first.

* provide a contest in the air - if you are near a marking contest, get involved!  At least 6 times in the second half, a Port defender took an uncontested mark, with adjacent Blues players looking around wondering who was supposed to provide the contest.  I think we need another mid-size forward who can provide decent aerial competition.

* never allow both Charlie and Harry to be off the ground at the same time - our forward line becomes virtually useless, the ball gets trapped up the other end, and we can't do the interchanges.

* when you don't have the ball, you work twice as hard to get it back.  Our chasing is absolutely pedestrian.

I know we have won 4 games, but the sides we have beaten currently sit 9th, 10th, 11th and 18th, and we lost to 12th.  Heaven help us when we are up against the top half of the ladder.

I know we have won 4 games, but the sides we have beaten currently sit 9th, 10th, 11th and 18th, and we lost to 12th.  Heaven help us when we are up against the top half of the ladder.

You do realise that Hawthorn, the Bulldogs and Richmond sit 9th, 10th and 11th BECAUSE we beat them?

And the Hawks will end up in the 8 if they beat Geelong. Apart from Port, we haven't played any of the teams at the bottom of the ladder (if we split the ladder into thirds).

That was your label .... not mine.

It was someone else's label which I replied to as part of the "convo" as you did.

Fitness is one angle but we also seem to go cold on contesting and chasing too, I was at the game and when Powell Pepper decided to get involved after half time a few of our blokes reverted to short steps and one arm tackles when PP went hard at the ball and were waiting for the next bloke to do the hard stuff. Port started to win around the contests and thats where we got into trouble IMHO.

I must have been at a different game  :)

Powell-Pepper played mostly as a forward and had a couple of turns in the ruck (where the umpires let him get away with tactics that SOS was penalised for).  He used his strength quite well as a forward and was a difficult match up for our smaller defenders.  Weitering had him for a while and that enabled Finlayson, Georgiades and Marshall to cause problems for Parks and our smaller defenders, although Parks is a much improved player and generally defended well.  The idea that our blokes put in short steps because of Powell-Pepper is fanciful.

I think Vossy summed it up really well:

"The last five or six minutes of that game were extremely intense. If we lost some intensity around the ball, we somehow found it in that last five or six minutes.

It’s fair to say that we’re in that position right now where we have to learn how to win — and win properly. We’re still in that stage."

The first half was outstanding, champagne footy ... but the last six minutes produced some of the best footy our club has played for a long time.  As Vossy said, we have to learn how to win properly and that means undoing the learnings of the last decade where losing intensity and folding under pressure was the norm.

I saw our Test Cricket Captain out of the side for 6 years with constant injuries. You just never know.

Now has a career in photography!😀

If it were just a fitness issue, I'd think that would play out more as the 3rd Q dragged on. I can't imagine it would prevent a concerted effort in the 1st 5 minutes of Q3 after a 20 minute break.

Happened 4 times not including the NAB match. They may come out a bit flat after half time at 49pts up, as many sides do, but most of those goals were late in the 3rd qtr and the first half of the last. Otherwise the margin would hold or get back to 30. They are not going to just not put in after half time 4 times. That becomes a different issue.

Just watching the second half again, put this in your review, Vossy

* why are so many guys slowly jogging while the ball is about to come into the area?  Get on your bike and find a contest.  Far too many uncontested marks.   We let opposition teams ping-pong down the wing with little thought of manning up.  I know some refer to it as zone defense - that's great on a basketball court, but on a footy field, it lets the opposition own the ball and squeeze us out of the contest.

* provide options when we are coming out of our defence - have a look at the replays of our kick ins, absolutely no movement, so the opposition know it is simply going to be the bail-out kick to the half back flank or a 15m deep into a pocket.  So predictable, little wonder we can't get it out of there.

* forwards - stay in front of your man for a centre bounce!  Kicks coming out of the middle are often scrambled.  Most of the half-kicks we had out of the middle were either marked by Port half-backs or easily cleaned up because they were there first.

* provide a contest in the air - if you are near a marking contest, get involved!  At least 6 times in the second half, a Port defender took an uncontested mark, with adjacent Blues players looking around wondering who was supposed to provide the contest.  I think we need another mid-size forward who can provide decent aerial competition.

* never allow both Charlie and Harry to be off the ground at the same time - our forward line becomes virtually useless, the ball gets trapped up the other end, and we can't do the interchanges.

* when you don't have the ball, you work twice as hard to get it back.  Our chasing is absolutely pedestrian.

I know we have won 4 games, but the sides we have beaten currently sit 9th, 10th, 11th and 18th, and we lost to 12th.  Heaven help us when we are up against the top half of the ladder.

If you beat good sides like the Dogs, last year's GF, Richmond previous 2 year's premiers, and even Port, last 2 years PF (for what it is worth), well they will be down the ladder early in the season.

Who looked at the draw, Tigers, Dogs, Port and thought we'd be 4-1.................and our only loss would be to the GC.

Don't worry about the fitness guru. He has the runs on the board at Hawthorn. The game style is extremely difficult aerobically and takes games before you can fully adapt to it. Fitness isn't black or white it develops and gets better.

Spot on.

Seems to me that The Terrier has a full season approach rather than an early peak, plus players getting used to a game plan that asks more of them, physically, plus overcoming the psychological hurdle of so much losing over previous years.

Coming along gradually, though, of course, not as quickly as we supporters would like ...but creating solid foundations that endure, takes time.

Loved watching a replay of the first half. Loved even more the last 10 minutes of the game.

Spot on.

Seems to me that The Terrier has a full season approach rather than an early peak, plus players getting used to a game plan that asks more of them, physically, plus overcoming the psychological hurdle of so much losing over previous years.

Coming along gradually, though, of course, not as quickly as we supporters would like ...but creating solid foundations that endure, takes time.

Agree there. It is a marathon, not a sprint.

That's is ok. We are not expecting miracles this year just another couple of steps. If those first halves become 3rd qtrs too and eventually 4th qtrs it'll be something to watch.

Keep in mind, Voss played for the Lions, whose #1 ruckman basically didn't start playing until April-May each year just so he was cherry ripe come finals time. The side from R23 onwards may look nothing like the side we see now.

If you beat good sides like the Dogs, last year's GF, Richmond previous 2 year's premiers, and even Port, last 2 years PF (for what it is worth), well they will be down the ladder early in the season.

Who looked at the draw, Tigers, Dogs, Port and thought we'd be 4-1.................and our only loss would be to the GC.

But in reality, the Tigers and Port are cooked - one was on the slide from halfway through last year, and the other hasn't won a single game this year.

Again, don't get me wrong, stoked to be 4-1 - but I can't help thinking if there was 5 more minutes in 3 of those games, we'd be 1-4.

The important thing is to continue improving so that when we do get into a big game against a serious contender,  we give ourselves a shot.  At least this year we re in the mix, as opposed to the last 8 or so seasons.

I must have been at a different game  :)

Powell-Pepper played mostly as a forward and had a couple of turns in the ruck (where the umpires let him get away with tactics that SOS was penalised for).  He used his strength quite well as a forward and was a difficult match up for our smaller defenders.  Weitering had him for a while and that enabled Finlayson, Georgiades and Marshall to cause problems for Parks and our smaller defenders, although Parks is a much improved player and generally defended well.  The idea that our blokes put in short steps because of Powell-Pepper is fanciful.

I think Vossy summed it up really well:

"The last five or six minutes of that game were extremely intense. If we lost some intensity around the ball, we somehow found it in that last five or six minutes.

It’s fair to say that we’re in that position right now where we have to learn how to win — and win properly. We’re still in that stage."

The first half was outstanding, champagne footy ... but the last six minutes produced some of the best footy our club has played for a long time.  As Vossy said, we have to learn how to win properly and that means undoing the learnings of the last decade where losing intensity and folding under pressure was the norm.

You must have behind the lady with the big hat 🤣 PP comes through hard in the FP , think it was Newnes who froze and watched him spin around and handpass to Boak I think it was and goaled.
Weitering had a handpass smothered which was PP again, another Carlton player(can't remember who) didn't get involved when he should have and pretended to follow his man when he should have chased PP because Weitering was off balance and PP snapped a goal.
In a separate incident Setterfield dropped a sitter on the wing because either he is a lousy mark or he thought he was going to get hit and imo it's the latter because he has form for doing it previously.
PP did have a run in the ruck and we were lucky he didn't kick another goal when a lazy Pittonet couldn't be bothered picking him up. Imo PP had a real influence after half time as did Butters and it was their contested footy and our lack of contesting/chasing that contributed. Losing intensity is a pretty way of saying we played bruise free non contested footy.
Did the same with Hawthorn after half time too..imho .
Re : Parks..very ordinary player imho and his lack of nous will cost us games...same with Setterfield whose disposal and brain lapses with regards attack on the footy will cost us also.

Vossy said 'the last five minutes of the game were intense' - true, but only because our 30 minutes before that were highlighted by our lack of intensity, especially around the loose ball.

We were 43 points up with 7 minutes to go in the 3rd, and we started the last only 17 in front.  That 7 minutes almost cost us the game.

If we don't correct these ridiculous lapses, then we're going to repeat them.  Voss should hammer it into the group at every opportunity

Was at a family lunch and was told the result.  Got home, watched the first half and then last 10 minutes.

I remember the good old days of a couple of seasons ago where we were having so many 'honorable losses' - not losing by more than 5 goals and being competitive.  Plenty of complaints on this board and a lot of feedback about the club.

Now we have 'honorable wins' (is there such a thing, and have they been honorable?) and they are barely acceptable.

I get that we don't need the stress of the last quarter every week.  I get that we are in positions where we 'should' be able to win more convincingly.  I get that we all want constant improvement in the team.

Voss has been coach for five-six months.  It is going to take a little while to adjust, get everyone on the same page and do it for 4 quarters consistently.  In the meantime, take the wins, be happy - knowing there is improvement to come.

You must have behind the lady with the big hat 🤣 PP comes through hard in the FP , think it was Newnes who froze and watched him spin around and handpass to Boak I think it was and goaled.
Weitering had a handpass smothered which was PP again, another Carlton player(can't remember who) didn't get involved when he should have and pretended to follow his man when he should have chased PP because Weitering was off balance and PP snapped a goal.
In a separate incident Setterfield dropped a sitter on the wing because either he is a lousy mark or he thought he was going to get hit and imo it's the latter because he has form for doing it previously.
PP did have a run in the ruck and we were lucky he didn't kick another goal when a lazy Pittonet couldn't be bothered picking him up. Imo PP had a real influence after half time as did Butters and it was their contested footy and our lack of contesting/chasing that contributed. Losing intensity is a pretty way of saying we played bruise free non contested footy.
Did the same with Hawthorn after half time too..imho .
Re : Parks..very ordinary player imho and his lack of nous will cost us games...same with Setterfield whose disposal and brain lapses with regards attack on the footy will cost us also.

No, I was sitting next to the lady who kept calling out "Man up!"  ::)

Powell-Pepper had 10 effective disposals for the game, kicked two goals and had one goal assist and I suppose that's OK for a forward and part time ruck.  The handball smother that resulted in a goal should have been a free to Weitering for high contact.  Newnes was on the far side of his opponent and couldn't get near to Powell-Pepper.  Weitering was out of the contest.  The goal assist was to Boak when Powell-Pepper gave Newnes the slip, effectively using Weitering as a screen.  His other goal came from lurking at the back of the contest and Hewett was too far away to tackle or smother.  As I said in another post, Powell-Pepper's strength makes him a difficult match up for our smaller defenders but he was ineffective around the ground and it was Burton, Butters, Byrne-Jones, Houston and Boak who kept Port in the game.

Setterfield did drop a mark on the wing not too far from my seat.  No-one was in cooee and he recovered and delivered the ball to a teammate.  Everyone drops marks they would normally take.

Bruise free footy is not having 25 more contested possessions than the opposition, nor is it losing the tackle count by three but having 6 more tackles inside 50. 

We only won the contested possessions against Hawthorn by 10 and had 11 more tackles and twice as many tackles inside 50.

It's not lack of intensity that is letting our opposition get back into games.  It's a breakdown in our system transitioning out of defence and, perhaps, overconfidence in the ability of our forwards to score from pretty average forward 50 entries.  Remember too that our second and third tall defenders have played 30 games between them.  In fact, Port's players averaged 24 more games than ours and their average age is 12 months older.

Despite his inexperience and less than brilliant games last season, Parks put in a good defensive effort and made some telling spoils.  His form in the magoos has been excellent and I think that he is a credit to our development coaches.  He may not be as dependable as Plowman, but he does get to contests and makes a good fist of it when he gets there.

The bottom line is that we're 4-1 with a new coach, brand new game plan and without some of our better players on the park.  Not to mention the hangover of some inept coaching and a culture where losing was the norm.  We've now beaten one of last year's grand finalists, a preliminary finalist and two of our long term nemises, and played some brilliant footy on the way.  Of course there's room for improvement but there's plenty of potential to do so.

SPP would surely be high in PA B&F votes for Rnd 5, will be interesting to see post season!

Just like Chol the week before, those bullocking types are very influential against us without being individually dominant.

We play like a bunch of skinny kids when the opposition get up momentum.

Guys, I know we are impatient, but here is some real food for thought.  Harry and Charlie have only played about 50 games sharing a forwardline thanks to both of them having had lengthy spells off over the journey.

Its arguable that everything is very different to how it has been previously thanks to this minute fact.

Our sheer dumb luck robbed us of an opportunity to rise earlier.

SPP would surely be high in PA B&F votes for Rnd 5, will be interesting to see post season!

Just like Chol the week before, those bullocking types are very influential against us without being individually dominant.

We play like a bunch of skinny kids when the opposition get up momentum.

I felt SPP was a catalyst for Ports comeback and as you suggest it's his physical bullocking work that intimidated a few of our players and that he seemed to  go to work without much interference from our players.

I felt SPP was a catalyst for Ports comeback and as you suggest it's his physical bullocking work that intimidated a few of our players and that he seemed to  go to work without much interference from our players.

There were several incidents that I noticed during the game of him just shrugging off attempted tackles by our guys. This must surely have inspired his teammates.

But in reality, the Tigers and Port are cooked - one was on the slide from halfway through last year, and the other hasn't won a single game this year.

Again, don't get me wrong, stoked to be 4-1 - but I can't help thinking if there was 5 more minutes in 3 of those games, we'd be 1-4.

The important thing is to continue improving so that when we do get into a big game against a serious contender,  we give ourselves a shot.  At least this year we re in the mix, as opposed to the last 8 or so seasons.

Port and Hawthorn had a long time in the last qtr when they got within a kick and couldn't do it. Richmond aren't what they used to be but they are still a good side, probably a finals. Dogs aren't bad either. Seems Hawthorn are pretty good too.

We are the only side to face a Richmond that had Dusty in it.

Whilst he didnt have a blinder, he was key to them being in front at half time against us.

SPP would surely be high in PA B&F votes for Rnd 5, will be interesting to see post season!

Just like Chol the week before, those bullocking types are very influential against us without being individually dominant.

We play like a bunch of skinny kids when the opposition get up momentum.

Yes, there’s no doubt that Powell-Pepper was in Port’s best.  What I’m disputing is the notion that our players developed a fear of him in the second half.

The reality is that we went in just as hard in the second half as we did in the first half, whether or not Powell-Pepper was in the vicinity.  The footy we played in the last 10 minutes was as hard as a cat’s head and Powell-Pepper was still on the ground, even if he had no impact.

Endeavour and effort is not the issue, it’s poor execution and lower efficiency that is letting our opponents back into the game.

I felt SPP was a catalyst for Ports comeback and as you suggest it's his physical bullocking work that intimidated a few of our players and that he seemed to  go to work without much interference from our players.

Against GC I warned pre-match we did not really have a match up for Chol, to me that was obvious, and while I didn't see SPP's influence coming I really should have!

Harford describes teams that play like us, that is a bit timid and lightweight around stoppages, as "skinnies". In the first few rounds I thought Cerra and the new Kennedy might resolve this issue, Hewett has helped but when Cripps is out Hewett is on his lonesome. Cerra and Kennedy lift when they are in 3rd string roles, not one of the frontline troops. They need the shield that Cripps provides, but then again who wouldn't like that protection?

Of course, we could develop a bit of a nastier streak and take out some of the opposition skinnies, make them pay the toll for a the fleet-footed attack on the footy, but it's not in our team's nature. However, it's something the current coach did on a regular basis, I doubt he'll put up very much longer with blokes who just jog behind the chain of play!

Perhaps we should have bit the bullet earlier and give Charlie a run on the ball while we had momentum against us, he is more than useful in traffic, as is SoJ. Perhaps last weekend is the downside of having SoJ 2nd ruck because he is then unavailable to rove or tag someone like Chol or SPP. Gov coming back will hopefully make a big difference, but this week will be tough against Freo.

AFLCA votes:

9 - Charlie Curnow (CARL)
8 - Sam Walsh (CARL)
7 - George Hewett (CARL)
2 - Zak Butters (PA)
2 - Harry McKay (CARL)
2 - Connor Rozee (PA)

Im guessing that if we were the issue in the second half, then we mustnt have been the issue in the first half, or maybe SPP was the issue in the first half and he was at fault for not giving 4 quarters?

Just throwing it out there, that we arent the only part of that equation.  He may have had a rocked fired up him, and Butters as both were crap to half time. 

Im guessing that if we were the issue in the second half, then we mustnt have been the issue in the first half, or maybe SPP was the issue in the first half and he was at fault for not giving 4 quarters?

Just throwing it out there, that we arent the only part of that equation.  He may have had a rocked fired up him, and Butters as both were crap to half time. 

If we were good after half time then Port must have been brilliant and same with the Hawks.....Port kicked three or four behinds first up in the last quarter and could have stolen the game.
We owe our tall forwards for this win IMO...both Charlie and Harry were able to lift when needed for goals and big marks.
SPP was a catalyst imo...not the bread and butter component like Butters, Boak etc  but I thought he had real influence and authority when he had the ball in the 3rd quarter and seemed to have a lot of space to work in and as Cookie pointed out our tackling seemed feeble and was shrugged off.
Credit to Hewett who played a consistent game and as LP pointed out picked up the heavy lifting slack created by Cripps absence and a few of his teammates dropping off their contested game.
You take the 4 points but there are areas for improvement and certain players with question marks given its happened three weeks in a row vs average opposition..

If we were good after half time then Port must have been brilliant and same with the Hawks.....Port kicked three or four behinds first up in the last quarter and could have stolen the game.
We owe our tall forwards for this win IMO...both Charlie and Harry were able to lift when needed for goals and big marks.
SPP was a catalyst imo...not the bread and butter component like Butters, Boak etc  but I thought he had real influence and authority when he had the ball in the 3rd quarter and seemed to have a lot of space to work in and as Cookie pointed out our tackling seemed feeble and was shrugged off.
Credit to Hewett who played a consistent game and as LP pointed out picked up the heavy lifting slack created by Cripps absence and a few of his teammates dropping off their contested game.
You take the 4 points but there are areas for improvement and certain players with question marks given its happened three weeks in a row vs average opposition..

Hmmm, maybe I wasnt clear.   SPP was really good after half time, so we cant be responsible for him being both good and bad in the same game is the point I am making.

Hmmm, maybe I wasnt clear.  SPP was really good after half time, so we cant be responsible for him being both good and bad in the same game is the point I am making.

He was good, because his work inside F50 meant players like Butters, Burton and Boak could hang back and not push so deep, it leaves them with run in their legs when they know they have someone deep at either end to do the heavy lifting, and Rozee was icing.

Kennedy was playing the SPP type role for us in the first couple of rounds, but has gone off the boil a bit, is that because we've asked him to tag?

Of course in AFL you can only do that if you have team-mates prepared to sacrifice, because AFL opposition will always try to make you accountable. But if everyone starts expecting someone else to sacrifice for them things will go sour pretty quickly.

He was good, because his work inside F50 meant players like Butters, Burton and Boak could hang back and not push so deep, it leaves them with run in their legs when they know they have someone deep at either end to do the heavy lifting, and Rozee was icing.

Kennedy was playing the SPP type role for us in the first couple of rounds, but has gone off the boil a bit, is that because we've asked him to tag?

Of course in AFL you can only do that if you have team-mates prepared to sacrifice, because AFL opposition will always try to make you accountable. But if everyone starts expecting someone else to sacrifice for them things will go sour pretty quickly.

Fair points on Kennedy, he was dominating in early games and racking up big numbers and then was switched to tagging roles which I found strange. I think he works better as an offensive player and Hewett is the one who does the tagging as he seems able to work both ways picking up a man and getting the ball himself which not many can do to the level he can.

Hmmm, maybe I wasnt clear.   SPP was really good after half time, so we cant be responsible for him being both good and bad in the same game is the point I am making.

SPP seemed on his own a lot after half time, maybe if his man played closer attention to him he might have featured less.
He did get used in the ruck at one stage which probably freed him up more given Pittonet in particular wouldnt be able or probably that interested in running with him...

All the talk pre-season was about our defensive issues.....lack of defensive pressure, letting teams move the ball easily into their forward line and the inability to stop teams when they got on a roll. I'll take the 4-1 for sure but it seems like we've gone into a full on attacking/high energy game, which we don't appear to be able to sustain for 4 quarters...but completely forgotten about the defensive weaknesses that ultimately cost Teague his job.

Even in the first half when we were dominating, Port still seemed to be able to get the ball and move it too easily around the ground and into their forward half. They just didn't have the tall forward options to capitalise on it.

Young is in his early days but looks lost when the ball hits the ground and just panics when he gets it. He'll get better for sure but we really do need to get McGovern and/or McDonald back in there and down back IMO to offer a bit more experience to help Weitering.

I was worried when we brought Cottrell, Newnes and Parks into the side all at the same time. None of them are all that good with disposal but Cottrell probably did enough to hold his spot.

If we were good after half time then Port must have been brilliant and same with the Hawks.....Port kicked three or four behinds first up in the last quarter and could have stolen the game.

You take the 4 points but there are areas for improvement and certain players with question marks given its happened three weeks in a row vs average opposition..

I watched the game on Sunday, and I went to the Hawks and Bulldogs games.

Funny thing is, in all of these games, I don't think the opposition were suddenly all that brilliant in the second half.  They all played solid, consistent football without actually tearing us apart, and ground us down until the scores were ridiculously close.  We made it far easier by forgetting that we needed to continue scoring as well.

The clear and obvious momentum swinger in all of the games was the way in which we played in the second half - we lost all sense of run and urgency, and reverted to the slow, unimaginative game that has plagued us for so long.  And unfortunately, we are not very good at it either.

Look at our 2nd half scores in those games....

Bulldogs :  12.4 in the first half, 4.2 in the second
Hawks : 9.5, 2.3
Power : 12.6, 2.4

This isn't about changes in tactics, or positional moves - it clearly seems to be an attitudinal thing, we go into a form of cruise control, and cannot get the engine started again when we need to.  We have all seen it in front of our eyes - we are in complete control, and then for some reason, we cannot get a goal to save ourselves.  Then the muscles start to tighten up, the kicks start missing, the marks are dropped, the handballs don't hit the mark.  And the harder you try to stop it, the harder it is to stop......

The one saving grace is, it is in our own hands and heads to fix this.  The downside is, anyone who is behind us at half time will have a real belief that we can be run down.

Good sides don't worry about the scoreboard - they simply follow their process for the whole game, and the scores that come from that are the by-product.  I think our second halves are a symptom of a team that is doing better than they imagined was possible.  The trick is to mature into a team that expects to win every single contest across the whole 4 quarters, and don't accept anything less.

This isn't about changes in tactics, or positional moves - it clearly seems to be an attitudinal thing, we go into a form of cruise control, and cannot get the engine started again when we need to.  We have all seen it in front of our eyes - we are in complete control, and then for some reason, we cannot get a goal to save ourselves.  Then the muscles start to tighten up, the kicks start missing, the marks are dropped, the handballs don't hit the mark.  And the harder you try to stop it, the harder it is to stop......

The one saving grace is, it is in our own hands and heads to fix this.  The downside is, anyone who is behind us at half time will have a real belief that we can be run down.

Good sides don't worry about the scoreboard - they simply follow their process for the whole game, and the scores that come from that are the by-product.  I think our second halves are a symptom of a team that is doing better than they imagined was possible.  The trick is to mature into a team that expects to win every single contest across the whole 4 quarters, and don't accept anything less.

You middle paragraph is the only real concern to me… because we’ve been almost run down a few times this year in spite of our strong play, that it feeds the belief of opposition teams that they are not out of the game… which means that they’ll weather our storm and come back at us hard and THAT perception will take a long time to overcome and WILL cost us wins…

Other than that, we’re getting the 4 points, hopefully realising that games last longer than 60 mins.

Watching the tape SPP seemed to be involved in a lot of the play that ended up in scores,  and even though he might not have been credited with the 'assist' he was certainly involved.  At least six times I reckon.   So he may not have had a lot of stats but what he did was damaging. Burton (who I don't rate)  also hurt with a couple of bombs.

Dominating the opposition and having a big lead in games has been very unfamiliar territory for our club for years. Do we just need to learn the psychology of dealing with it? do we need to be physically fitter? do we need more active leadership? Whatever the answers are, we must keep winning, pretty  or ugly,  to build and maintain the faith.

Dominating the opposition and having a big lead in games has been very unfamiliar territory for our club for years. Do we just need to learn the psychology of dealing with it? do we need to be physically fitter? do we need more active leadership? Whatever the answers are, we must keep winning, pretty  or ugly,  to build and maintain the faith.

Yes, I think you are correct, the fitness to deal with being in the front might not be physical fitness.

Coming 2nd too often for too long, and becoming comfortable with it, can be habit forming!

Dominating the opposition and having a big lead in games has been very unfamiliar territory for our club for years. Do we just need to learn the psychology of dealing with it? do we need to be physically fitter? do we need more active leadership? Whatever the answers are, we must keep winning, pretty  or ugly,  to build and maintain the faith.

The psychology of having a huge lead is challenging - as I have said before, I was always taught that if you have a big lead at 1/2 or 3/4 time, the best way to prevent a turnaround was to go as hard as you could straight after recommencement, with a view to kicking the first two goals (or more).  That serves the purpose of not only increasing the lead, but crushing the opposition spirit to the point where they no longer believe it can be done.

None of these comebacks that have nearly caught us have been barnstorming goal fests - they have been slow burns, because we have not put the foot on the throat.  Never give a sucker a second chance, as they say.  The real trick is to convince the players that these fadeouts are not inevitable, or it might become a learned habit.

First game I’ve seen live since COVID and the result was never in doubt. The bounce of the ball and inexplicable umpiring favoured Port but we always had control of the game.

Port also kicked a couple of goals out of their back-sides......

Dominating the opposition and having a big lead in games has been very unfamiliar territory for our club for years. Do we just need to learn the psychology of dealing with it? do we need to be physically fitter? do we need more active leadership? Whatever the answers are, we must keep winning, pretty  or ugly,  to build and maintain the faith.

Leaders need to step up , hard to see a captain like Hodge allowing players to slip into old habits and take the foot off other teams throats. We looked a bit directionless when the other teams started to kick goals, Burton kicked two long range goals even though he didnt appear to be playing forward, who was playing on him? Butters was damaging also and he must have had an opponent, you dont get these problems if players are accountable and when teams get momentum you need either your coach or leaders to tell players to get on their man and make every possession a contest. When you are at the games you can see the whole spread of players and you can see whats going to happen in advance further up the ground and Port had players loose everywhere on the overlap too often

How many games over the last few years have we been the better side for the 3 quarters but one shocking term cost us? No one cared for us then and I certainly don't care now it's the other way around.