3rd Friday night game in a row. This time its the later game.
Gold Coast are definitely gettable, but will be pushing hard for finals. Whereas after R8, our hopes have all but gone.
Small chance we can still make finals if we win....and win well.
2 changes.
OUT: Pound (study commitments), Plane
IN: ODea, Schaap.
Fell away just at the end of the qtr. 13pts at 3/4 time is a big margin in the women's game.
Really missing a key forward.
Too many long kicks to basically nothing I50. Girls idenified it at 1/4 time, but nothing really changes because of the personnel we have.
We can't kick to our own advantage and it shows.
Harford needs to go.
Harford needs to go.
Realistically, we have been more competitive than i thought we'd be given how much we were gutting in the off-season.
Literally 1/3 of our best team went out, including MVP Prespakis.
We got Vellardo in, who has been ok, but far from great.
I'm not sure a new coach could've done any better.
....as we see our former key forward emphasizing the point with her 2nd.
Why did they a leave? Clearly there is a crap culture there.
Harford needs to go.
We have a bog ordinary side after the gutting of it the last couple of years.
Why did they a leave? Clearly there is a crap culture there.
Expansion teams and the pull of playing for your childhood side took care of a couple.
More money would've been a factor too.
Sure culture can limit that somewhat, but it basically happened across the board.
We have to be patient and...
We have to stop looking at a 'semi-pro' league and comparing it with a fully professional competition with a 120+ years of history.
The women's competition is as settled as my 'weetbix, crunchy nut, nutra-grain' breakfast combination.
Expansion was always going to gut existing sides.
I guess the question is...Would it have been better to be in at the start, and be 'gutted now'...or wait until this last season, and be the 'gutter' of existing sides?
I'm not sure what the answer is ..I suspect being in at the start may have cost us a few initial supporters who were a bit dismayed by the loss of players.
The factors Kruddler mentions meant existing sides were never going to be able to maintain settled lists.
Some of these problems with retention are short term and unique.
How many AFL men players would cite a move to a club because they were life long supporters as the main reason for that move?
That factor would be way down the list.
It's more about money, opportunities and family reasons...and that will be the same for the women as the AFLW progresses.
Luck also plays a bit of a part in the AFLW as to how many of your players want a move.
Some existing sides will have been affected by expansion more than others.
As far as culture goes...this is not something you can establish in a few short years with such expansion and movement happening.
And as for interest and support...
I suspect a lot of older supporters will never fully invest in a Carlton AFLW team...but five year old Carlton kids, Jack and Jill, will grow up with the side, and they will be able to tell their kids about our champion 200+game AFLW players.
In reality the AFLW is yet to fully embrace professionalism on a wide scale, there are some girls who have settled right in, and they are genuine professionals as good as if not better than the men. But a large chunk of AFLW is mates playing footy and socialising with mates, it's a difficult situation, because it's a cake and eat it scenario. They want the big money, they want the respect, but they want to still pick and choose who they play footy with.
I also see it as a bit of a chicken and egg scenario, some claim they aren't fully professional and aren't remunerated as such so they aren't going to commit 100%. But there needs to be some sacrifice before the dollars roll in, in much the same way Olympians and other top amateur athletes commit before the reward.
The AFLW players cannot have it both ways, but many are still kicking and screaming in a fight against the inevitable tide that professionalism brings. Unfortunately, for some players like Peterson, Moody and Vescio, they are a hard core professional minority who's playing fortune depends on a bunch of casual workers.
Of course my comments will be opposed by many, but they are just self-evident and it is exposed in things player movements, trade and drafting. I get why the AFL are doing it this way, they are offering girls a downhill run into AFLW, but it won't last forever, sooner or later someone paying the dollars is going to expect something in return!
Another bit of weirdness is that the AFLW has become a defacto zoned system, this comes from allowing the girls to nominate regions, that is so far from professional it's a joke. That was kyboshed back in the VFL days, when blokes still had a stubby at 1/2-time!
The fact you can (at least to this point) only sign a player for 2 seasons, means its very hard to establish long term culture.
On average, there has been 2 clubs joining the comp every year since the end of season 2. Thats over double this size in 5 seasons. Player movement is essential.
Given the way the draft works (ie it doesn't) it means that established interstate sides will dominate, and even newer interstate sides will get a leg up on most Melbourne based sides.
Add to that the pathetic 'compensation' model the AFL came up with in the off-season and its easy to see why we are struggling.
Seriously, losing Prespakis (and not to mention Gee) and the compensation we got was "allowing us to keep our 1st round draft pick"....which was pick 21!
Georgia Gee herself was pick 12 back in the day. Bombers basically got Prespakis and Gee for free....and we didn't lose pick 21 because they were good players. FMD!
The AFL need to bite the bullet. Up the $'s and make it a national draft from next year. They have the extra $'s courtesy of the new TV rights deal.
Until then, the divide between the interstate sides (and 1 or 2 vic sides) and the rest will just widen.
You simply cannot ask the ladies to be a fully national comp when they have their main income sources outside of footy, and they are likely to be studying or not wanting to leave family. Its hard enough for the blokes who get 100k to do so.
You simply cannot ask the ladies to be a fully national comp when they have their main income sources outside of footy, and they are likely to be studying or not wanting to leave family. Its hard enough for the blokes who get 100k to do so.
I don't think that the difficulties caused by juggling a career and AFLW are fully appreciated. Kez was on the wireless recently and one of the many interesting topics she covered was the fact that many AFLW players had to take annual leave from their jobs in order to train and play. Having two seasons in one year made it very hard for many players and their employers.
Gab Pound's situation is a case in point; she's missed games because university commitments have prevented her from training. If AFLW was a fully professional comp, would she have to chose between footy and uni?
You simply cannot ask the ladies to be a fully national comp when they have their main income sources outside of footy, and they are likely to be studying or not wanting to leave family. Its hard enough for the blokes who get 100k to do so.
Olympians do it all the time on less, the lower wage is a bullcrap argument that doesn't stack up.
The female cricketers play more games, travel more, play more games, spend more time away form home and do it virtually al year long for less money than some o the AFLW girls.
The lack of money argument is a con.
Olympians do it all the time on less, the lower wage is a bullcrap argument that doesn't stack up.
The female cricketers play more games, travel more, play more games, spend more time away form home and do it virtually al year long for less money than some o the AFLW girls.
The lack of money argument is a con.
Olympians train for years for the pinnacle participating in meets that last a few weeks along the way. Not sure how that compares to uprooting across the country for a 3 month season and knowing that each match you miss is as important as the end goal of the once in 4 year Olympic games where sponsorship will outweigh anything the girls get paid. The Olympians although frugal will get way more than afl women do if they qualify. Even standardised and using some of the girls misrepresents your argument because first year draftees don't earn that much.
Do all afl players earn a million dollars a year? Nope. 2% do.
Olympians train for years for the pinnacle participating in meets that last a few weeks along the way. Not sure how that compares to uprooting across the country for a 3 month season and knowing that each match you miss is as important as the end goal of the once in 4 year Olympic games where sponsorship will outweigh anything the girls get paid. The Olympians although frugal will get way more than afl women do if they qualify. Even standardised and using some of the girls misrepresents your argument because first year draftees don't earn that much.
Do all afl players earn a million dollars a year? Nope. 2% do.
I'm with you Thry, I said it a few weeks ago, the comp is half assed and nothing more than a toke gesture but the AFL. They are paid a pittance and it shows, the AFL should invest heavily (way more than they are now), pay them properly so that can be pro and then watch it prosper. Right now, for me at least, its unwatchable.
Olympians train for years for the pinnacle participating in meets that last a few weeks along the way. Not sure how that compares to uprooting across the country for a 3 month season and knowing that each match you miss is as important as the end goal of the once in 4 year Olympic games where sponsorship will outweigh anything the girls get paid.
So athletes train for years and leave home base to compete once every four years for just a few weeks, ultimately getting a small fortune from sponsors regardless of results, while the AFLW girls sacrifice months on end on the road as travelling paupers facing death at every challenge! :o
Have I missed some key aspect of your perspective?
Walker must really love AFLW!
They can fast track the whole thing by throwing some extra money at it, or they can let it develop naturally over a period of time.
I tend to favour the latter approach.
Let the competition develop naturally, bring in some equalisation strategies as necessary...but don't rush the thing, and try and create a parellel competition with the men's competition in a few short years.
Salaries can gradually increase to cover initiatives that create a more equal competition.
Now in the early stages that may mean a few years of an unbalanced competition that favours certain teams but over time these will sort themselves out.
The thing is...Get the basics right. You're than building on a strong foundation rather than a knee jerk approach.
I'm just curious of the current level of interest.
I tried to find crowd numbers for the current round, (or any round) but couldn't see any.
Is there a growing level of interest, or has the expansion shenanigans turned a few people off?
They can fast track the whole thing by throwing some extra money at it, or they can let it develop naturally over a period of time.
I tend to favour the latter approach.
Let the competition develop naturally, bring in some equalisation strategies as necessary...but don't rush the thing, and try and create a parellel competition with the men's competition in a few short years.
Salaries can gradually increase to cover initiatives that create a more equal competition.
Now in the early stages that may mean a few years of an unbalanced competition that favours certain teams but over time these will sort themselves out.
The thing is...Get the basics right. You're than building on a strong foundation rather than a knee jerk approach.
I'm just curious of the current level of interest.
I tried to find crowd numbers for the current round, (or any round) but couldn't see any.
Is there a growing level of interest, or has the expansion shenanigans turned a few people off?
Listening to the commentary and crowd noise, the shrieking, high pitched voices you hear (quite noticeable) suggests to me the crowds are small and there are are lots of females and less males. Some of that comes from the ground obviously but you can tell apart the crowd noise from it. As I said, I don't watch much let alone every game but that's what I have gleaned from it.
https://www.austadiums.com/sport/comp/aflw/results
Woops. :o
I didn't think they were big but....
Look at the Port v Adelaide game.
I have tried to watch the AFLW but the standard of the game just frustrates me to the point I have to switch it off. Too many players with poor skills and as LP suggested it has a part time look about it and it needs more money thrown at it to attract better athletes who can improve the quality of play.
Won't be popular or politically correct with my next comments but ...
When the men's game is naturally used as a yardstick to measure the women's game it's very hard just like in cricket, basketball etc to get enthusiastic about watching anything else but the higher standard male competition.
I want to like the AFLW but it's got a long long way to go...
I have tried to watch the AFLW but the standard of the game just frustrates me to the point I have to switch it off. Too many players with poor skills and as LP suggested it has a part time look about it and it needs more money thrown at it to attract better athletes who can improve the quality of play.
Won't be popular or politically correct with my next comments but ...
When the men's game is naturally used as a yardstick to measure the women's game it's very hard just like in cricket, basketball etc to get enthusiastic about watching anything else but the higher standard male competition.
I want to like the AFLW but it's got a long long way to go...
EB I'm no aficionado by any stretch on these but to me eye, I think woman's cricket, basketball and soccer for that matter are very watchable. Again my opinion only and no offence to the elderly but AFLW looks like old retirement village people trying to play AFL. Its slow, poor skilled, it's just terrible.
EB I'm no aficionado by any stretch on these but to me eye, I think woman's cricket, basketball and soccer for that matter are very watchable. Again my opinion only and no offence to the elderly but AFLW looks like old retirement village people trying to play AFL. Its slow, poor skilled, it's just terrible.
I’m not anything other than a very occasional non fan of those three sports but if I do see them I tend to find reasonable and comparative skills between the two teams and to me that produces a watchable contest.
Whereas a 100 pt flogging offers zero interest at all.
As to our girls, I haven’t seen them play for 4/6 weeks, I did catch the second half this week… :(
Suns came out and kicked the first goal which hurt but I was impressed with our improvement particularly early in the 3rd in composure and actually hitting teammates by hand, the turnovers came often from dropped marks up forward which were rebounded.
My previous viewing was that we were constantly under siege and in panic mode which we were at times here too but there have been improvements made.
So athletes train for years and leave home base to compete once every four years for just a few weeks, ultimately getting a small fortune from sponsors regardless of results, while the AFLW girls sacrifice months on end on the road as travelling paupers facing death at every challenge! :o
Have I missed some key aspect of your perspective?
Walker must really love AFLW!
not sure what your argument is, but do you want to compare a run up of preparing at home vs moving across the country to play footy for 10 or 20k per year for less than half a year? How much do the girls get paid for both actions? Is it possible to work a part time job and swap states to play footy vs becoming an elite swimmer and being able to choose your base to launch yourself taking off a few weeks per year to compete at meets?
I know plenty of people who have tried to make a fist at playing elite sports. The pathway to team sports is largely right place right time, and right opportunities. The Olympians have a different pathway. Neither is easy but you can make an Olympic games by being dedicated at your craft and training right. The aflw and other sports like it are largely situational.
I'm not saying AFLW is exclusively half-ar5ed, or that other sports are exclusively more professional, but it's pretty clear to me that while some in AFLW are trying their very very best to build a long term professional pathway, and are prepared to do the hard yards now to get that result, others are just making hay while the sun shines.
What worries me is that it seems to be the hay makers who are also the loudest voices of complaint, and as such I doubt they have best interests in mind for the game or those who come to the game after them.
Mind you this isn't exclusive to any sport, it's just a difficult time for AFLW. Jus a year or so ago Women's sport around the country was complaining that it was being deconstructed by the largess of AFLW, the money was too big, other sports couldn't compete. Not much has changed, except now many are using a lack of money as an excuse for the game not being an AFL like spectacle, it never will be no matter how much money gets thrown at it, and the problem isn't money at all, the problem as I see it is one of expectations!
I do not expect VFL players to earn money like AFL players, yet VFL games pull larger crowds than AFLW, while some in the AFLW bemoan wages and claim it would be an better product if wages had some parity, yet I doubt it will ever even match VFL!
They can fast track the whole thing by throwing some extra money at it, or they can let it develop naturally over a period of time.
I tend to favour the latter approach.
Let the competition develop naturally, bring in some equalisation strategies as necessary...but don't rush the thing, and try and create a parellel competition with the men's competition in a few short years.
Salaries can gradually increase to cover initiatives that create a more equal competition.
Now in the early stages that may mean a few years of an unbalanced competition that favours certain teams but over time these will sort themselves out.
The thing is...Get the basics right. You're than building on a strong foundation rather than a knee jerk approach.
I'm just curious of the current level of interest.
I tried to find crowd numbers for the current round, (or any round) but couldn't see any.
Is there a growing level of interest, or has the expansion shenanigans turned a few people off?
If you want equalisation, you need to ditch the zoned drafting.
That is the biggest drawback of an even comp.
The only reason its currently zoned is because the money isn't big enough to get players to relocate.
Increase the wages to the point where players can and will relocate and then you are halfway there to an equal comp.
If you want equalisation, you need to ditch the zoned drafting.
That is the biggest drawback of an even comp.
The only reason its currently zoned is because the money isn't big enough to get players to relocate.
Increase the wages to the point where players can and will relocate and then you are halfway there to an equal comp.
I’m not sure that it’s as simple as that. Players like our skipper have a career and it will be many years before playing AFLW footy trumps her career and many others.
Zoned drafting is inequitable and is holding the competition back. Unfortunately, the alternative will exclude many players. Like many AFL initiatives, the outcomes are often counter-intuitive.
I’m not sure that it’s as simple as that. Players like our skipper have a career and it will be many years before playing AFLW footy trumps her career and many others.
Zoned drafting is inequitable and is holding the competition back. Unfortunately, the alternative will exclude many players. Like many AFL initiatives, the outcomes are often counter-intuitive.
Yep
It would have to be significant money to induce some players to move...and some parity with the salaries of male players won't happen for a long time... if ever.
The problem is that they haven't started this competition with young 18 year olds, but rather women in their mid twenties and above, many with careers well under way, some in relationships, and with other factors meaning that a long distance move, even for an increased money offer is not viable or desirable.
It's a teething issue that's a problem with commencing a competition with a wide range of ages and situational issues.
It will sort itself out in coming years as younger players become the main source of new blood.
I’m not sure that it’s as simple as that. Players like our skipper have a career and it will be many years before playing AFLW footy trumps her career and many others.
Zoned drafting is inequitable and is holding the competition back. Unfortunately, the alternative will exclude many players. Like many AFL initiatives, the outcomes are often counter-intuitive.
I think i seem to be missing something from your post, or you from mine.
Adjusting the wages and 'un-zoning' the draft doesn't effect current players. They can still play where they want and work as much or as little as they want. If it gets to the stage where they can't do both, then fair enough, but i don't expect that to be an immediate change.
However, as 18yo girls coming into the competition, it will make a difference. They don't have careers to speak of and earning a full wage is enough to support them financially to the point that working (or studying) is optional, not required.
If someone chose work over footy, so be it, its happened in the mens game too. Adrian DeLuca retired at 25 or whatever it was because he could earn more from his profession (an accountant IIRC) then as a footballer.
Essentially the competition will take 10 years to fully be evened out after the change to the zoned draft as it will take that long for the players already on list to be phased out.
Yep
Patience young grasshoppers. ;D