One of the more intriguing aspects of our onfield plans is how the match committee & coaching dept. intend on using the three regular ruckman on our list.
At present, we have Marc Pittonet who is, in principle, match ready and as good as he is going to get. Then we have Tom De Koning who is still learning his craft but can be used up forward even though he has been used in stints up forward even though he does then to spoil Curnow & McKay in the marking contests. Lastly, there is young Markov who whilst still quite raw, apparently coming on in leaps & bounds.
The 'elephant in the room' is the fact that De Koning is out of contract at the end of this season and there is bound to be a handful of clubs interested in winning his services even though he isn't a fully finished product (or is he ??).
Should Markov be given some senior experience this year ??
Can De Koning be played as a permanent forward with some pinch-hitting in the ruck ??
Would Pittonet benefit from having Markov as his back-up instead of De Koning ??
Would the club ever consider moving Pittonet on and putting all their faith into the two younger guys ??
Should the club bite the bullet and trade De Koning this year & what effect would that trade have on the rest of the playing list ??
If TDK was to be traded, what sort of trade price should we be asking for given he may be offered crazy money to jump ship ??
Markov is miles away, Gawn was the best young ruck I've seen in years, and he was nearly cut after 3 or 4 years.
Our problem with rucks might be hanging onto TDK long enough for him to mature.
Add to this, we've got Young adding size and weight, people forget this kid rucked for the Dogs and did OK, in this regard he has more AFL ruck experience than any of our alternatives, and he could do it again!
Keep in mind for KPDs we are almost overloaded.
Mirkov is progressing very nicely and is far from being “miles off it”.
The plan is for him to break into the AFL team this season, but probably in the latter half of the season. To a certain extent, that will depend on our other rucks staying fit and the development of Harry Lemmey; a ruck/key forward.
The change to the sub rule may encourage more clubs to have two genuine rucks in the 23. A fresh De Koning coming on late in the third quarter could create havoc. Alternatively, subbing Pitto off at 3/4 time to add run could be advantageous.
I’d be playing Pitto and De Koning (and Jack) in the 22 to start with. If Mirkov continues to improve, I’d bring him in to give Pitto a break. I’m not sure that you could have Mirkov and Pitto in the 22.
Geelong have changed the ruck landscape. Will be interesting what other clubs do this year.
When Pittonet was in the ruck, Cripps picks up Brownlow votes. It's his work after the ruck contest that sets him apart.
I have the feeling in my bones TDK will leave us for a better/lucrative contract. Of course I hope he doesn't but...
Keep in mind for KPDs we are almost overloaded.
You say what now?!
Young and Weitering.
....and....Durdin (if he can stay fit)......Kemp, Marchbank, McGovern, Akieu are NOT key defenders.
Pittonet is still underrated. His ruckwork is elite. He plays better as a ruck, rather than a backup KPP. Let him ruck and grind down his opponent.
TDK is great as a ruck in small bursts. Can jump over most and take a mark around the ground. If he was opposed to Pittonet though, he'd struggle as he'd get worn down by the aggressive style he plays. So we need to find TDK a backup spot. We have 2 coleman medalists in our forward half already, not much use for him there (and along with Jack) makes us too tall.
Mirkov (no 'a' in Mirkov) is in the mold of TDK, athletic and 'jumpy'....but has some extra height, although is lacking in body size. He could become a bit of a Mason Cox type for us who has height to match it with everyone, plus an ability to jump. If he can kick a goal, he could become better than TDK.
Jack Silvagni is a capable backup that adds grunt. He won't necessarily win you hitouts, but he is an improvement on the rest when the ball hits the ground. Most ruckwork these days goes to a 50-50, so jack might make it a 49-51 in our favour. Better in front of goal/up forward compared to the rest.
So what do we do?
As gifted as TDK is, he would give us a HUGE return via trade (or FA compo) that may benefit the team more than he does. And i say TEAM as in structure/balance.....not in what he is capable himself.
Think of it this way....
Pittonet as #1 ruck with Jack or Mirkov as backup is very similar (potentially slightly worse) than Pittonet with TDK as backup.
BUT
if we moved on TDK, we could get a first rounder back (if not more).
So...
Pittonet with Jack or Mirkov + 1st rounder is much better than Pittonet with TDK.
So while i love TDK and what he has to offer.....its not quite a good fit with the rest of our list/team.
If we didn't have Charlie, Harry or Jack (or even Mirkov)....he'd be much more important to our team balance.
Pittonet is still underrated. His ruckwork is elite. He plays better as a ruck, rather than a backup KPP. Let him ruck and grind down his opponent.
TDK is great as a ruck in small bursts. Can jump over most and take a mark around the ground. If he was opposed to Pittonet though, he'd struggle as he'd get worn down by the aggressive style he plays. So we need to find TDK a backup spot. We have 2 coleman medalists in our forward half already, not much use for him there (and along with Jack) makes us too tall.
Mirkov (no 'a' in Mirkov) is in the mold of TDK, athletic and 'jumpy'....but has some extra height, although is lacking in body size. He could become a bit of a Mason Cox type for us who has height to match it with everyone, plus an ability to jump. If he can kick a goal, he could become better than TDK.
Jack Silvagni is a capable backup that adds grunt. He won't necessarily win you hitouts, but he is an improvement on the rest when the ball hits the ground. Most ruckwork these days goes to a 50-50, so jack might make it a 49-51 in our favour. Better in front of goal/up forward compared to the rest.
So what do we do?
As gifted as TDK is, he would give us a HUGE return via trade (or FA compo) that may benefit the team more than he does. And i say TEAM as in structure/balance.....not in what he is capable himself.
Think of it this way....
Pittonet as #1 ruck with Jack or Mirkov as backup is very similar (potentially slightly worse) than Pittonet with TDK as backup.
BUT
if we moved on TDK, we could get a first rounder back (if not more).
So...
Pittonet with Jack or Mirkov + 1st rounder is much better than Pittonet with TDK.
So while i love TDK and what he has to offer.....its not quite a good fit with the rest of our list/team.
If we didn't have Charlie, Harry or Jack (or even Mirkov)....he'd be much more important to our team balance.
At the moment pittonet is our only proven ruck.
TDK is a forward that can ruck rather than a ruckman that can go forward from what I saw of him. Loves a mark more than a ruck contest. He doesn't finish well enough as a forward.
Lemmy is the wild card.
Mirkov is unproven, and if tdk and pitto were both unavailable id be using young and jsos as my rucks based on what I've seen.
Jsos got found out a bit later last season. Like Grigg these things might work once or twice but teams are going to plan better for it next year and if we roll jsos through as a ruck option im going to say that it will be less effective than it was in 2022.
You say what now?!
Young and Weitering.
....and....Durdin (if he can stay fit)......Kemp, Marchbank, McGovern, Akieu are NOT key defenders.
The club says they are (not McGovern) and that’s where they play.
Lemmey is nominally a key forward but has played as a key defender in the SANFL. Silvagni could also play as a key defender if necessary.
Another KPP would be handy but I’d prefer another
winger ruck, particularly if they can double as a KPP.
The club can call them ham sandwiches but who’s going to rushing the buffet ?
They are 3rd talls/pinch hitting as KPD at best.
The question for our rucks is what is the combination going to be. We went to Adelaide with Pitto TDK and JSOS and look where that got us. We lacked a bit of pace on the the outside last season so having too many big guys isn't going to be helpful in this regard. I think JSOS is in our best 22,but where does he fit if TDK and Pitto play. I thought the biggest problem under Teague was getting the best team on the park. The best 22 players weren't the best 22 team. This is something Voss needs to address as he got it wrong in Adelaide last year.
Don't want to see TDK leave as he is going to explode in 1-2 years but would take a top 10 pick for him.
Horses for courses in the ruck, some weeks you need two specialists, other weeks just one and a part timer.
Wouldn't mess with Young as a ruckman and just leave him down back.
Not sure why we have this obsession of trying to turn players into something else when they are succeeding very well in their original position especially given KP backs are like gold and hard to find.
Pittonet and Mirkov would be two stiffs playing together imo....neither have an impact anywhere else other than the ruck and we would become less mobile and have less options. Pittonet and TDK would be my ideal pairing when we need two ruckman and I'd be preferencing TDK as my No 1 when we use the solo option.
Ruckman as Geelong showed don't have to be high quality big contract players so if TDK gets offered megabucks I'd let him go and use the trade scenario to fix other list problems and look around for another ruckman like Bryan who is stuck behind Draper at Essendon.
You don't pay ruckman big dollars imho and as Stanley of Geelong showed you just need a athletic competitor who can run around the ground and work in combo with a swingman like Blicavs and give you options.
Horses for courses in the ruck, some weeks you need two specialists, other weeks just one and a part timer.
Assuming they stay fit, I predict we'll find a bit of MC rotation going on this season, with TDK, SoJ and perhaps Durdin getting mixed opportunities as Pitto's back up.
I'm pretty sure if fit Pitto is physically still the No.1, but I'd expect TDK to go past him in the next season or two assuming TDK stays a bluebagger!
Don't want to see TDK leave as he is going to explode in 1-2 years but would take a top 10 pick for him.
He would have had some great learnings last season as the No1 ruck, and hopefully with Pittonet coming back to be the main man, it will help his development further. I'd also like him to stay.
TDK needs to be more aggressive if he wants to hold down the #1 ruck.
He needs to improve his ruckwork if he want to hold down the #1 ruck.
He needs to be more consistent if he wants to hold down the #1 ruck,
Can he? Yes.
Will he? Not sure.
Personally, i think we trade him in and get something else we need and let someone else pay TDK roulette.
In terms of 'ruckman years' TDK is still a baby and Pitto is entering his prime. No way would I like to see us even entertain trading TDK. Together they pose a legitimate headache for opposition clubs, especially as they're both so different. And, the gods forbid, what if Pitto gets injured and there's no TDK! (Mirkov/Lemmey & O'Keefe are projects and still a way off).
Id play them both.
5 on the interchange this year isn't it?
I suspect it's just a matter of time before TDK surpasses Pittonet, TDK has most of our other ruck options covered on athletic ability and aerobic capacity. Pitto has TDK covered for tactics and knowledge, but that is expected from someone who has been in the system longer.
TDK is about equal of Pitto on 2nd efforts but has Pitto easily covered for F50 involvements, however TDK still gets in the way inside F50.
Pitto has TDK easily covered for D50 involvements and defensive positioning.
TDK has Pitto covered for pace, but not necessarily positioning which depends more on game awareness.
When "All our Mids" are up and firing it probably doesn't matter much who gets the taps, or even if we get the taps, it's more about 2nd efforts and shepherds to Mids. ( In fairness at this stage we haven't really got to see a fit TDK rucking with a full compliment of 1st choice Mids, which I think tends to be the biggest influencing issue in specific ruck stats. When Pitto is in TDK was relieving along with the Alt-Mid rotations, when TDK was first ruck we had blokes like Hewett and Cerra under injury clouds. Even against the Dees we got on a roll and they switched Gawn forward and put Jackson in to try and stop it, yet Gawn dominated taps. When Jackson went in he lost the taps to Pitto, but they started winning clearances due to Jackson's better mobility and 2nd efforts.)
Unfortunately, none of our ruck options have durability as feature of their characteristics.
Id play them both.
5 on the interchange this year isn't it?
It will be interesting to see how clubs make use the new rules, and I suspect in our case you are correct to make use of it to bolster ruck options.
But I suspect fans will be a bit disappointed, because it will change or diminish the role of some fan favourites.
Its hard to find young rucks that can take speccies and kick goals, his tackle numbers are pretty good. He is very good at hitouts to advantage when he wins the ruck contest just doesn't win enough of them yet - a seasoned hardened body will see him win more than lose due to his raw athletic ability. 203cm 23 year old would like us to persist with him.
Just putting it out there; our bloke is Mirkov with an "I".
Markov is a Collingwood rookie.
Id play them both.
5 on the interchange this year isn't it?
In theory, thats easy to say.
Pick your best 22, include 2 rucks and you'll find that you get a bit too top heavy and/or there will be deserving '3rd tall' types who miss out - ie Silvagni, McGovern, Marchbank...which exposes us should one of our Key forwards or key backs get injured.
Its hard to find young rucks that can take speccies and kick goals, his tackle numbers are pretty good. He is very good at hitouts to advantage when he wins the ruck contest just doesn't win enough of them yet - a seasoned hardened body will see him win more than lose due to his raw athletic ability. 203cm 23 year old would like us to persist with him.
Agree - he would be a wanted commodity on the trade market and while Pit is serviceable I doubt he would be the starting ruck in many other sides (if any) so disagree in trading TDK - we drafted the kid, done the ground work and still needing the position he is playing for filled and now we let a team like Geelong swoop in and make him a real star.
The kid needs more time but he shows more than most for a ruck man at 23 - has the writing on the wall that this could easily be a trade we rue in 2-3 years.
If he wants the big dollars now then we have no option but to drive a hard bargain and trade but my point is first we need to do what we can to retain him.
Agree - he would be a wanted commodity on the trade market and while Pit is serviceable I doubt he would be the starting ruck in many other sides (if any) so disagree in trading TDK - we drafted the kid, done the ground work and still needing the position he is playing for filled and now we let a team like Geelong swoop in and make him a real star.
The kid needs more time but he shows more than most for a ruck man at 23 - has the writing on the wall that this could easily be a trade we rue in 2-3 years.
If he wants the big dollars now then we have no option but to drive a hard bargain and trade but my point is first we need to do what we can to retain him.
If we need to go over the cap next year and under year after then we need to do it with Gov coming out of contract I have my preference on who to keep even if others will disagree.
In theory, thats easy to say.
Pick your best 22, include 2 rucks and you'll find that you get a bit too top heavy and/or there will be deserving '3rd tall' types who miss out - ie Silvagni, McGovern, Marchbank...which exposes us should one of our Key forwards or key backs get injured.
With 5 on the bench, I'd definitely play both. Tdk is a forward that can ruck well rather than a ruck that plays forward well.
Im not worried about jsos and mcgovern marchbank. All 3 are role players for us and Jack is first cab off that rank as spiritual leader. Mcgovern second and marchbank is a bit of a wildcard who i might think about trying in Newman's role.
With 5 on the bench, I'd definitely play both. Tdk is a forward that can ruck well rather than a ruck that plays forward well.
Im not worried about jsos and mcgovern marchbank. All 3 are role players for us and Jack is first cab off that rank as spiritual leader. Mcgovern second and marchbank is a bit of a wildcard who i might think about trying in Newman's role.
It's not 5 on the bench though.
It's 4 and 1 break glass in case of emergency.
You might not be worried about those I mentioned, but pick your best 22 in an actual side and you'll see its unbalanced if you included all of them. If you then look to exclude one, the most obvious one is a 2nd ruck. Since tdk is a forward/ruck, it's him.
We tried playing woth pitto, tdk, Harry and Charlie and we had to leave out Jack....and ended up being too tall with no heart.
I don't need to learn that lesson a 2nd time.
We tried playing woth pitto, tdk, Harry and Charlie and we had to leave out Jack....and ended up being too tall with no heart.
I don't need to learn that lesson a 2nd time.
And so it starts for season 2023, the well wishes, mercy pleas and begging.
AFL is a brutal business!
As BigH, Charlie, TDK, Young and Kemp mature, selections are no longer so certain. What we might want as fans, and what becomes reality at the MC, might not converge!
AFL is a cold and brutal business!
I notice in pre-season SoJ has again been given so stoppage time, I really, really, hope, the MC see him as more than a 3rd tall or a ruck relief, because if fans think he's getting a gig based on that things might not be so rosy!
Te konings mark then is why he and pittonet should both be playing.