Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: Lods on February 23, 2023, 08:43:33 am

Title: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Lods on February 23, 2023, 08:43:33 am
At this time of the year expectations are often high...even during our poor seasons we usually started off with hope that the coming year would be better.
This year the expectations will be pretty high. Finals is probably the 'lowest' the bar is set and maybe, just maybe we'll go all the way.

This thread is a bit of a no-judgement thread. We may have something in the back of our mind that we think is probably unlikely but "it wouldn't surprise us" if it did happen.
It can be an individual player, coach, team or club thought.
It can be as wild as you like, (funny as you like), improbable as you like, good or bad.

So to kick it off...
I didn't watch a lot of VFL last year but in the games I did see, one player struck me as having little impact, having few possessions and looking a bit out of his depth....but this guy was an 'almost' player.
That spectacular marking attempt 'almost' came off. If only he hadn't taken that extra step, if only he'd given off the ball a little earlier, if only he hadn't fumbled.
It will be interesting to see if some of these things have improved over the off-season and they do start to come off.
If they do.....

It wouldn't surprise me if Dom Akuei plays senior football this year.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Slowhand on February 23, 2023, 11:22:21 am
It wouldn't surprise me if we have 10 on the injury list after round 5.

You just know the names!!!!

Geez I hope I'm wrong  O0  O0

Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: DJC on February 23, 2023, 11:28:36 am
It wouldn't surprise me if Dom Akuei plays senior football this year.

It wouldn't surprise me if you're right  :)
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: madbluboy on February 23, 2023, 11:38:38 am
It wouldn't surprise me if we start 0-3.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: WASurfer on February 23, 2023, 12:48:19 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if at least one of McGovern or Marchbank are injured and miss a large chunk of the season...again.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: townsendcalling on February 23, 2023, 12:56:54 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if we were 9 /0 up and get beaten in a close one in Round 10........and this site goes ballistic!!
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Lods on February 23, 2023, 01:01:21 pm
I was hoping for more optimistic 'surprises'. ;D
But deep down...I knew. ;)
We're a pessimistic lot. :D
20 years in the wilderness will do that to you....and at this time of year injuries will always get the main focus.
Good news stories take a back seat.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: madbluboy on February 23, 2023, 02:05:59 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if at least one of McGovern or Marchbank are injured

SEN are saying McGovern has a back issue. Corey Durdin has injured his calf.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 23, 2023, 03:13:42 pm
SEN are saying McGovern has a back issue. Corey Durdin has injured his calf.
Fantastic.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: DJC on February 23, 2023, 03:24:11 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if Brodie Kemp cements a place in the 22 this season.

His cameos last season were pretty good under difficult circumstances and he's had an uninterrupted build up to the season.  It will probably depend on whether he can show the marking prowess that made him a standout as a junior.  If so, his step, acceleration and delivery could be just what our defence needs.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: LP on February 23, 2023, 03:25:28 pm
SEN are saying McGovern has a back issue. Corey Durdin has injured his calf.
Not sure which is worse, but I suspect Gov being out is a bit of a hit to forward planning.

It's disappointing news, but what disturbs me more is that some "alleged Carlton fans" calling / commenting on radio seemed happy about it, with Motlop and SoJ assured a starting slot!

It wouldn't surprise me if Cincotta starts Rnd 1.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: WASurfer on February 23, 2023, 03:35:19 pm
Early days but if he misses another large chunk of the season then he'll be extremely lucky to survive the cut come the end of the year. He showed how important he can be in the first few games last year and the last few.....but has barely been able to get out there in his time with us and at some point you have to cut your losses.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Lods on February 23, 2023, 04:19:18 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if Brodie Kemp cements a place in the 22 this season.

His cameos last season were pretty good under difficult circumstances and he's had an uninterrupted build up to the season.  It will probably depend on whether he can show the marking prowess that made him a standout as a junior.  If so, his step, acceleration and delivery could be just what our defence needs.

Looked like a 'beast' in a pic I saw earlier today.

But they all look like beasts at this time of year, all bulked up....it's 'puppy' muscle. :D
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 23, 2023, 04:36:40 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if at least one of McGovern or Marchbank are injured and miss a large chunk of the season...again.
More of a given, you add can add Martin to that list....
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 23, 2023, 04:38:56 pm
I'll be surprised if Hollands isnt in the team rnd 1 and both he and Lachie Cowan are not regulars by seasons end...
 
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 23, 2023, 06:10:59 pm
More of a given, you add can add Martin to that list....
The players on our list who absolutely cannot be relied upon are:
Cunningham
Marchbank
McGovern
Martin
Williams
They will miss large chunks of every single year ear without fail, nothing surer. Do what I do, pretend they are not on our list and don't include them in your thinking.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: WASurfer on February 23, 2023, 06:25:21 pm
Agreed GTC....Marchbank certainly has shown potential but has played something like 50 games in 8 seasons on an AFL list. Not sure if it's his body or if he's just damn unlucky....in which case we have a lot of very unlucky players on our list.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Baggers on February 23, 2023, 06:42:27 pm
The players on our list who absolutely cannot be relied upon are:
Cunningham
Marchbank
McGovern
Martin
Williams
They will miss large chunks of every single year ear without fail, nothing surer. Do what I do, pretend they are not on our list and don't include them in your thinking.

A sad reality thus far. What hurts even more is that each of them, on his day, is a bloody ripper.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: northernblue on February 23, 2023, 08:10:00 pm
Fitness is like sobriety, you're only fit 1 day at a time.

To condemn someone on the basis of past injury is foolish to my eyes but I also understand that at some point a decision must be made on cutting your losses.
You wont get all of those decisions right and some may hurt more than others when you do get it wrong.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Thryleon on February 23, 2023, 09:05:21 pm
It wouldn't surprise me if we have a so so year and miss finals with all the heat on voss and then we win a flag in 2024.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 23, 2023, 10:24:54 pm
Fitness is like sobriety, you're only fit 1 day at a time.

To condemn someone on the basis of past injury is foolish to my eyes but I also understand that at some point a decision must be made on cutting your losses.
You wont get all of those decisions right and some may hurt more than others when you do get it wrong.
Unfortunately NB, you have Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Williams as the 4 horseman of the injury apocalypse that has beset the club over the past few years and we only have ourselves to blame by recruiting them. They came to us with poor injury records and nothing has really changed. Cuningham was recruited as a kid so I put that down to bad luck rather than bad management but
I think that some point you talk about has arrived for a few of those players and Voss should have been a bit more ruthless and probably cut a couple Imho before they all end up dragging him down by not having a settled lineup most weeks.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 23, 2023, 10:29:58 pm
Unfortunately NB, you have Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Williams as the 4 horseman of the injury apocalypse that has beset the club over the past few years and we only have ourselves to blame by recruiting them. They came to us with poor injury records and nothing has really changed. Cuningham was recruited as a kid so I put that down to bad luck rather than bad management but
I think that some point you talk about has arrived for a few of those players and Voss should have been a bit more ruthless and probably cut a couple Imho before they all end up dragging him down by not having a settled lineup most weeks.
Whilst I agree EB and have said as much, I can see why Voss hasn't wielded too big an axe. By wielding said big axe as a newby, you can quicly get alot of people off side.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 23, 2023, 11:08:45 pm
Whilst I agree EB and have said as much, I can see why Voss hasn't wielded too big an axe. By wielding said big axe as a newby, you can quicly get alot of people off side.
Take your point GTC but I think when you first arrive is the time to wield the axe and set the club on the direction you want, set some standards and get players in who can survive the rigours/requirements of the modern game.
I would have cut Cuningham and probably Marchbank with the view to replacing the latter with Tyreece Leiu on the rookie list.
Its professional sport and you have to make tough decisions and the club have been more than fair and reasonable with those players mentioned...
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: northernblue on February 23, 2023, 11:23:25 pm
Unfortunately NB, you have Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Williams as the 4 horseman of the injury apocalypse that has beset the club over the past few years and we only have ourselves to blame by recruiting them. They came to us with poor injury records and nothing has really changed. Cuningham was recruited as a kid so I put that down to bad luck rather than bad management but
I think that some point you talk about has arrived for a few of those players and Voss should have been a bit more ruthless and probably cut a couple Imho before they all end up dragging him down by not having a settled lineup most weeks.

Lucky for Charlie you’re not in charge isn’t it ?
🤣
But I totally agree with you and the club, those guys know full well they are under the pump, it doesn’t really help them but they know it.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: DJC on February 24, 2023, 12:34:44 am
Take your point GTC but I think when you first arrive is the time to wield the axe and set the club on the direction you want, set some standards and get players in who can survive the rigours/requirements of the modern game.
I would have cut Cuningham and probably Marchbank with the view to replacing the latter with Tyreece Leiu on the rookie list.
Its professional sport and you have to make tough decisions and the club have been more than fair and reasonable with those players mentioned...

And that is exactly what Vossy has done; moved on those who don't meet his standards but he has shown faith in those who work hard but may have had some bad luck in the past; Charlie Curnow being a prime example.  Many folk here were convinced that Charlie wouldn't play again or, at best, would be a shadow of his former self.  Showing faith in Docherty, Charlie, Marchy, Cuners, Gov, Ed, Martin, et al goes a long way towards getting the playing group on side and, if they come good, they're automatically in the best 22.

I'm disappointed that we couldn't find a place for Lieu, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought that he could fit into our defence as seamlessly as Marchy did at the end of last season.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Macca37 on February 24, 2023, 12:58:27 am
Unfortunately NB, you have Marchbank, Martin, McGovern and Williams as the 4 horseman of the injury apocalypse that has beset the club over the past few years and we only have ourselves to blame by recruiting them. They came to us with poor injury records and nothing has really changed. Cuningham was recruited as a kid so I put that down to bad luck rather than bad management but
I think that some point you talk about has arrived for a few of those players and Voss should have been a bit more ruthless and probably cut a couple Imho before they all end up dragging him down by not having a settled lineup most weeks.

Agree with you.  I am sure that any of the top four sides, with far deeper lists than we have, would have cut these players long ago.

Unfortunately, it seems we still operate with the mindset of a club that had almost pariah status as a destination club for many years.

Equally unfortunate is the fact that these players continual injuries exposed the lack of depth of our lists and consequently we have had to play far too many C graders week in week out.  With other clubs players of this standard would be lucky to make it out of the VFL.



Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: northernblue on February 24, 2023, 08:12:08 am
Agree with you.  I am sure that any of the top four sides, with far deeper lists than we have, would have cut these players long ago.

Unfortunately, it seems we still operate with the mindset of a club that had almost pariah status as a destination club for many years.

Equally unfortunate is the fact that these players continual injuries exposed the lack of depth of our lists and consequently we have had to play far too many C graders week in week out.  With other clubs players of this standard would be lucky to make it out of the VFL.





Yeah, you’re right.
Let’s just hand in the keys, can you hit the light switch ?
🙄
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 24, 2023, 03:47:24 pm
And that is exactly what Vossy has done; moved on those who don't meet his standards but he has shown faith in those who work hard but may have had some bad luck in the past; Charlie Curnow being a prime example.  Many folk here were convinced that Charlie wouldn't play again or, at best, would be a shadow of his former self.  Showing faith in Docherty, Charlie, Marchy, Cuners, Gov, Ed, Martin, et al goes a long way towards getting the playing group on side and, if they come good, they're automatically in the best 22.

I'm disappointed that we couldn't find a place for Lieu, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought that he could fit into our defence as seamlessly as Marchy did at the end of last season.
Docherty and Charlie are a different case to the others...Doc for obvious illness reasons and Charlie who is an exceptional talent laid low by separate knee issues that turned into a extensive lay off and asked more questions about our rehab operations.
Martin, Williams, Marchbank and McGovern are serial injury cases who have also underachieved when they have played imo unlike Doc and Charlie who have been outstanding players when injury free and in Docs case very inspirational .
I get you give players you believe in some more time to recover and it creates harmony in the group but the reality is there is an expiry date when that time runs out and you need to move on from players who cant deliver in a consistent fashion.
The reality is that when Martin, Williams, McGovern and Marchbank play they are nothing special imho.....Martins best game was his first and he has played the odd good quarter or two since. That was his form at Gold Coast, yep he has talent  and gives you the odd highlight but I wouldnt be re-contracting him.
Williams came to us with a history of Achilles issues but has now added an ACL...unlucky...probably but we knew what we were getting. Play midfield was the plan, but with no endurance that was a failed plan from day 1 and given his Achilles history another Dr Phil moment in terms of WTF were we thinking?
McGovern....see Martin...another fail in his chosen role as a forward and out of desperation and embarrassment was thrown down back...whats the old saying " mugs to the backline"....he did look better when he managed to get on the park and had less responsibility as that intercept running defender and like Martin has a good skillset but in terms of bang for buck has been another  fail. The list has changed and we now have a few intercept defender types  and Id be more interested in developing them than backing McGovern to play the majority of the season.
Marchbank....nice bloke is Caleb and along with Lee Walker one of the most unlucky players to have graced the footy field I have seen but the club have been generous and sympathetic in terms of patience and understanding but its reached that point where all parties need to accept its over.
Cuningham has been unlucky and 6 seasons for 40 odd games is a sad result for a talented young player cut down in his prime years. I really like his skillset and what he offers in the modern game and fit I would pick him in my best 22 but the odds of that happening are very unlikely and we need a fitter version of what his best is and I would have had that same conversation as we should have had with Marchbank.
Another season has rolled around and surprise surprise the usual names are missing and on the injury list......it puts more pressure on Voss having so many iffy players and he deserves a more robust and deeper list to achieve the high expectations that have been placed on him.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: kruddler on February 24, 2023, 04:07:09 pm
Just a reminder, that besides cancer, Doc did his knee.....twice.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on February 24, 2023, 04:44:07 pm
Just a reminder, that besides cancer, Doc did his knee.....twice.
Fair point...I didnt mention the knees but I think the two bouts of testicular cancer probably stick in my head more when thinking about the inspiration he provides amid the extra hurdles he has had placed in front of him.
Not many players could come back from that and provide a season like he had in 2022 and even if he does another two knees you would still stick with man given his fortitude and ability to prevail and still play quality and consistent football.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 24, 2023, 08:12:35 pm
And that is exactly what Vossy has done; moved on those who don't meet his standards but he has shown faith in those who work hard but may have had some bad luck in the past; Charlie Curnow being a prime example.  Many folk here were convinced that Charlie wouldn't play again or, at best, would be a shadow of his former self.  Showing faith in Docherty, Charlie, Marchy, Cuners, Gov, Ed, Martin, et al goes a long way towards getting the playing group on side and, if they come good, they're automatically in the best 22.

I'm disappointed that we couldn't find a place for Lieu, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought that he could fit into our defence as seamlessly as Marchy did at the end of last season.
I'm one who thought Charlie was goneski given the nature of his injury. I thought the first big knock or heavy fall and that knee cap will crumble. Credit to Jack Russell and Charlie for getting it right and getting back. Charlie was a game changer from day 1, you knew he was something special. Players like Charlie come along once in a very long time.
Marchy, Cunners, Williams, Martin are all nice fellas and good players, but they aren't game changes IMO. They get different chances to a C Curnow or a P Cripps or a S Walsh..
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: pinot on February 24, 2023, 08:28:46 pm
Wouldn't surprise me if Cunners, Marchy and Gov are not on the list next year on last year of their contracts and they have had a poor start to the year already.

I think its 15-18 games this year or need to give someone else a go.
Title: Re: It wouldn't surprise me if....
Post by: Gointocarlton on February 24, 2023, 09:57:14 pm
Wouldn't surprise me if Cunners, Marchy and Gov are not on the list next year on last year of their contracts and they have had a poor start to the year already.

I think its 15-18 games this year or need to give someone else a go.

Cunners and Marchy have to be gone, Gov id persist one more year (At least) with, his move to defence was very good for us. His intercept marking, speed and disposal make him a real asset. Lets wait and see what his injury is this time before we write Gov off.