Please, let the game be like last year's!
Told you so. Oops, gone the early crow.
No improvement at all from last year, we are still throwing away winnable games through panic!
Way too predictable and our kick-in tactic is beyond a joke.
Key points
(1) Lob & Owies are absolutely headless & we can’t rely on these guys
(2) Question marks on Acres and not sure he’s an upgrade on Cottrell at all
(3) Silvagni, McGovern, Martin and Fisher have the talent but must do more
(4) lack of pace and explosive players remains an issue - any of Honey, Dow, Durdin & Cunningham will help
(5) Holland and Cowan ok, will be players in time
(6) Ed C simply can’t kick - must handball at all options
No improvement at all from last year, we are still throwing away winnable games through panic!
Panic?
You must have watched a different game!
We should have killed the ball that Lynch marked but, until then, we had control of the game. Similarly, Motlop’s handball was the right choice in most circumstances but not this time … but how many games has he played?
Seemed like we started defending the lead with 5 min to go
Considering the ruck, tackling, and i50 differential, we not only held our own, but were efficient. We can all find many moments that could be improved.
2pts is 2pts. A result that goes against the odds as underdogs.
Doc is demanding the rd1 inspirational sage title. 👏🏼
Interesting to see how we handle the ruck going forward.
Lewis Young was huge I thought
Considering the ruck, tackling, and i50 differential, we not only held our own, but were efficient. We can all find many moments that could be improved.
2pts is 2pts. A result that goes against the odds as underdogs.
Doc is demanding the rd1 inspirational sage title. 👏🏼
Interesting to see how we handle the ruck going forward.
I can’t help but think we should have played two rucks
I can’t help but think we should have played two rucks
Plenty will agree with you.
Lewis Young was huge I thought
Thought both defenses were well on top...58 points each on a fine night with even contributions in the midfield was ordinary and the game was marred by poor skills and some very average decision making by both teams.
Young improved as the game went on......
I can’t help but think we should have played two rucks
Nankervis 37 HO 11Tackles.
Make him compete and it looks quite different.
We played on Richmonds terms all game and did not lose
Nankervis 37 HO 11Tackles.
Make him compete and it looks quite different.
I think his job is to just nullify the other teams ruckman and if he breaks even its a win, he is very slow but like I said before seemed to have his big frame in every contest and was probably one of their better players.
We probably needed Pittonet to bang bodies with him and soften him up so TDK to take more advantage late in the game when the heat was on..
We played on Richmonds terms all game and did not lose
Depends on if you rate Richmond as this big improver that everyone seems to see them as with Taranto and Hopper as inclusions...
I dont see it and reckon we probably blew 2 points to a midpack team......a few of the Tiger golden oldies are cooked imo and I reckon they will struggle as the season goes on.
Our midfield is one paced and we struggle to move or break any lines and can’t deliver the final blow all the good team can when on top. We keep them all within striking distance and then clam up when the pressure keeps building.
Really miss Walsh as a connecting player and we are still carrying too many players who do very little yet still keep their spot.
I know it’s only round one but I didn’t see a finals team tonight.
Lacked some composure in key moments of the game, played well for most it but felt we needed a little more desperation when they had control.
WTF is that sign with the power point on it ??
Three-mins to go and they are coaches box are calling out to close-up shop ?? Was too early to ice the game and it came back to bite us on the clack. Everyone learnt a valuable lesson from that decision tonite.
Depends on if you rate Richmond as this big improver that everyone seems to see them as with Taranto and Hopper as inclusions...
I dont see it and reckon we probably blew 2 points to a midpack team......a few of the Tiger golden oldies are cooked imo and I reckon they will struggle as the season goes on.
Cripps and TDK were quiet until third quarter.
Our ground ball forward of center other than Motlop were extremely poor.
I think we should be happy with the result. Unfortunately we need Crippa firing on all cylinders every game and I think thats more than acceptable. Not sure if Honey and Durdin would have made a difference tbh but need better ground ball players forward of center.
Lacked some composure in key moments of the game, played well for most it but felt we needed a little more desperation when they had control.
WTF is that sign with the power point on it ??
Three-mins to go and they are coaches box are calling out to close-up shop ?? Was too early to ice the game and it came back to bite us on the clack. Everyone learnt a valuable lesson from that decision tonite.
We tried unsuccessfully to waste time with 6 minutes left but then went for broke with 90 seconds remaining when we were up by 6 points WTF????
I rate the Rich midfield, they belted us in the middle in the the 3rd quarter. Four or five clearances in a row got them right back in the game. Taranto led the charge.
Before the game, during the warm up, Teague had the ruck bag out as our boys were walking off. Some of our blokes went over and said gday. Many walked the other way and didnt. Gov Martin TDK were some of the ones that did, Cripps Doc Fish Charlie were in the group that didn’t. Though it was interesting.
Thought Gov was pretty solid for 99% of the night, then had a few howlers.
Weiters did well on Lynch all night, got caught out by an assy bloke by Taranto hich allowed Lynch to mark it and goal to square the game.
Blacres will rue that dropped mark in the dying seconds.
Apparently Jack was upset his old man didnt go into the rooms for the post match photos with family. I know he works at another club but it’s your son mate.
Apparently Jack was upset his old man didnt go into the rooms for the post match photos with family. I know he works at another club but it’s your son mate.
Seriously pathetic by the old man. I would be dead set embarrassed. He has form though so probably not a real surprise. Real shame
Thought Gov was pretty solid for 99% of the night, then had a few howlers.
Weiters did well on Lynch all night, got caught out by an assy bloke by Taranto hich allowed Lynch to mark it and goal to square the game.
Tend to agree on McGovern, he wasnt what I call 100% secure down back but he wasnt terrible either and at least he was trying when he made those mistakes. Think he was the player that gifted Dusty with the 1st goal from memory after spilling a mark he should have taken but he seemed to settle after that. Weitering did well on Lynch but three goals probably took the gloss off his game.
Acres looked a bit nervous all night and was a tad disappointing although the Richmond wingers were equally as innocuous imho.
Both teams seem to mirror each other in terms of players contributing and others doing SFA......
We had a lot of players who were very ordinary. Got smashed at I50's and thought we were mauled at the stoppages but I'm still gutted we couldn't hold on for the win. Bloody O'brien should have kicked to H way earlier than he did but didn't. Then Harry slips over on what I would suggest was a ground that had been resurfaced. Guess we were lucky to get some points but doesn't make it any easier to swallow.
Start of the 3rd quarter i had that here we go again sinking feeling.
Never felt comfortable and still dissapointed to see players not thinking their way through the game. We go to pressure the ball carrier leaving a man free behind and predictably, I see the hunter just being passed by and then having to chase tail.
Its a mortal sin to allow your opponents that much time by "applying pressure". I would have thought it smarter not to commit and make the opposition defender advance artificially closing space whilst drawing them up field, and giving your team mates time to shuffle in.
It happens time and time again, which baffles me.
Ultimately not taking our opportunities when they present cost us the game. We missed finals last year by half a percent. 2 points is a dangerous thing to throw away in that equation.
We looked a bit too one paced and Richmond looked spritely by comparison.
A 4th umpire isn't helping the game. Still seeing the throws, the rubbish free kicks and not sure why Shai Bolton is a protected species.
Apparently Jack was upset his old man didnt go into the rooms for the post match photos with family. I know he works at another club but it’s your son mate.
Probably more about the way SOS got axed from the club and not wanting anything to do with CFC, I was told he wanted Jack to leave Carlton so he is holding a grudge real bad and I hope it doesnt turn into one of those lifelong grudges.
Tend to agree on McGovern, he wasnt what I call 100% secure down back but he wasnt terrible either and at least he was trying when he made those mistakes. Think he was the player that gifted Dusty with the 1st goal from memory after spilling a mark he should have taken but he seemed to settle after that. Weitering did well on Lynch but three goals probably took the gloss off his game.
Acres looked a bit nervous all night and was a tad disappointing although the Richmond wingers were equally as innocuous imho.
Both teams seem to mirror each other in terms of players contributing and others doing SFA......
Lynches goals were in the 3rd and 4th qtrs
Also, with Richmond, never seen a team kick the ball blindly off the ground, or in one case into the knee of an opposing player, so much and see it end up in the hands of a teammate.
We had a lot of players who were very ordinary. Got smashed at I50's and thought we were mauled at the stoppages but I'm still gutted we couldn't hold on for the win. Bloody O'brien should have kicked to H way earlier than he did but didn't. Then Harry slips over on what I would suggest was a ground that had been resurfaced. Guess we were lucky to get some points but doesn't make it any easier to swallow.
Pretty sure they only resurfaced the centre area, the ends weren’t touched. I may be wrong but…
Pretty sure they only resurfaced the centre area, the ends weren’t touched. I may be wrong but…
nah they did large portions of the field. Looked like a giant jigsaw puzzle with about 2/3 resurfaced. The ground was easily chopped up southern stand side.
Its going to be a long year at the G.
Probably more about the way SOS got axed from the club and not wanting anything to do with CFC, I was told he wanted Jack to leave Carlton so he is holding a grudge real bad and I hope it doesnt turn into one of those lifelong grudges.
grow some balls, put your differences aside and support your boy. Its not Always about you Stephen. Jo will set him straight when they get home. As Rocky said, pathetic.
Lynches goals were in the 3rd and 4th qtrs
Three in a low scoring game on one of the premier FB's in the league makes him a contributor much like Charlie was at the other end imho. What did you think of Jack Martins game?...did I miss anything that he did behind play that could class him as a contributor? or could we have put a corpse on the field in jumper No 21 and got the same result?
grow some balls, put your differences aside and support your boy. Its not Always about you Stephen. Jo will set him straight when they get home. As Rocky said, pathetic.
I think his actions when spectating have shown his attitude and I agree its not right to include Jack in his bitterness towards the club and he should support his son and separate his feelings.
Doc had a crack at SOS for sitting in his car in the carpark while Jack was recognised for his 100 game milestone. Fair enough too!
Steven may be working for another club but that's insensitive behaviour at best.
I think that Rita's comment about it being sad that Sergio wasn't there to see Jack's 100th game was spot on. He would have been so proud of his grandson.
A 4th umpire isn't helping the game.
Some debatable (non)decisions but I thought the umps did a pretty good job and showed more common sense than I have been used to seeing. If having an extra umpire contributed to that performance, I am all for it.
Great to see Dusty penalized for several unsuccessful fend-offs - even better to see so many unsuccessful fend-offs.
Lynch, being a true full forward, took full advantage of his limited opportunities, went through a set procedure and kicked accurately.
On the other hand, Harry seems to rely on thought bubbles when taking his set shots - "Will I kick around the corner? Will I kick directly at the goal?" He is just as likely to answer the question by trying to run around the man on the mark and hope for the best.
When Lynch lifted in the third and fourth quarters he lifted the morale of Richmond. Harry's efforts with set shots in the third were morale killers.
If you were asked to list Carlton players on their ability to kick a goal from a set shot to win a match, where would you place Harry?
I'm sure Lynch would be in Richmond's top 3.
Until Carlton gets real with Harry and his kicking for goal a place in the Final 4 is likely to remain as elusive as ever.
Lynch missed a couple of sitters as well
We played on Richmonds terms all game and did not lose
That was my takeaway from the game as well.
They didn't dictate the game but they were suited by the way it was played. I know that seems a bit vague, and it's a little hard to explain but it was what I was feeling through the game.
It was helped by some sloppy efforts by our guys.
Cobwebs that needed shaking out, and with a few new guys we'll be better for the run.
McGovern takes that first missed mark 9 times out of 10...and credit to him that he settled pretty much after that, although he had a few poor moments again at the end.
McKay slipping over at the end was costly and he missed a few goals, but he was pretty active and seemed in good touch.
Charlie on the other hand seemed out of sorts early in the game and took a while to work into it.
Things like that will work themselves out as the season goes and the touch comes back.
Looking on the bright side....
They went in as favourites and will probably be a part of the pointy end of the year.
I thought our defence was really good, especially the three tall backs, with a special mention to Young.
We lost the first minute and we lost the last minute but outscored them in the remaining part of the game. :D
Our last draw against Richmond was in 1972.
We had some good tussles with them that year...and it finished on a bright note. ;)
So here's hoping.
Fisher is a disappointing footballer imo. 6 touches in first quarter and then 1 more for the next 3.
Did not touch the footy after half time. Nothing.
Martin is even worse imo. The bloke jogs around at half pace and shows no desire to get out of first gear.
Both of these guys are teasers.
If we are going to make the leap up we can’t accept consistent below par performances regardless of their potential or highlight reel cameos they pull out every now and then.
Prefer to see blokes like kemp honey given more chances.
Panic?
You must have watched a different game!
We should have killed the ball that Lynch marked but, until then, we had control of the game. Similarly, Motlop’s handball was the right choice in most circumstances but not this time … but how many games has he played?
One minute to go
in clear possession with a mark
in front
Lost
Maybe not panic……but
Doc had a crack at SOS for sitting in his car in the carpark while Jack was recognised for his 100 game milestone. Fair enough too!
Steven may be working for another club but that's insensitive behaviour at best.
I think that Rita's comment about it being sad that Sergio wasn't there to see Jack's 100th game was spot on. He would have been so proud of his grandson.
Typical or sos. Always been about him.
Massive ego.
Rapt he is no longer in our club in any capacity.
Once again it was the same old Carlton forward line plan.
When approaching the 50m arc just kick it long to a contest! Job done. (Don't go and find your player to be ready to defend)
Why is it Carlton's modus operandi is to never kick to a leading forward? Oh wait! Because our forwards don't work hard enough to get on a lead.
It's not good footy!
Other clubs do it and do it well.
We are still getting cut up when a turnover happens. Richmond are a well drilled team and set up well.
Harry the Heartbreaker, zero awareness, zero brains, zero practicing over the break, zero improvement. Nothing has changed.
Yes he may be getting the ball the further up the ground but he just turns and kicks without THINKING.
His goal kicking is atrocious. Go back to U16s if you want to kick like that.
Both teams could've and should've won it but both teams lost it.
Another year of pain.
Great goal by Doc.
100% shawno. No free games on reputation. No passengers. If we want to go to the next level we can't keep going back to that well.
Seriously pathetic by the old man. I would be dead set embarrassed. He has form though so probably not a real surprise. Real shame
Heard on the ABC that he was in the car in the car park and may not of being allowed in.
Jack may of being pissed at the club and not hi dad.
Some clubs are pretty tight on who they let in to the dressing room, which is a shame seeing it was such a big milestone.
Some debatable (non)decisions but I thought the umps did a pretty good job and showed more common sense than I have been used to seeing. If having an extra umpire contributed to that performance, I am all for it.
Great to see Dusty penalized for several unsuccessful fend-offs - even better to see so many unsuccessful fend-offs.
I was fuming at several poor decisions at the time but, on reflection, the umpires were consistent and deserve acknowledgment for a well adjudicated game.
They did miss Dusty’s first fend off which was probably more blatantly holding the ball.
Fisher is a disappointing footballer imo. 6 touches in first quarter and then 1 more for the next 3.
Did not touch the footy after half time. Nothing.
Martin is even worse imo. The bloke jogs around at half pace and shows no desire to get out of first gear.
Both of these guys are teasers.
If we are going to make the leap up we can’t accept consistent below par performances regardless of their potential or highlight reel cameos they pull out every now and then.
Prefer to see blokes like kemp honey given more chances.
You can't accept that type of output - I hope we finally go hard at the selection table. Carroll and Honey are younger with more upside.
If Saad wasn't playing we would have lost by 5 goals, it's a shame we can't afford to release him more.
I was fuming at several poor decisions at the time but, on reflection, the umpires were consistent and deserve acknowledgment for a well adjudicated game.
They did miss Dusty’s first fend off which was probably more blatantly holding the ball.
How many push in the backs when going for a mark were not called? (At least they were consistent)
A lot of double action push outs in the rucks were missed.
What does a Carlton forward need to do to get a free?
That Saad call for chopping the hands was a bad call replays showed he only hit the ball when he spoiled. Bad call.
Silvagni attended 18 ruck contests for 2 hit outs. Not a ruckman and it probably hurts his forward work which was poor last night.
Last year in round 1 Pittonet had a good battle with Nankervis for most of the game which allowed a fresh TDK to smash him in the final term.
Its time to end this Silvagni in the ruck nonsense. It doesn't work and our results in the 2nd half of last year show this.
Thought Gov was pretty solid for 99% of the night, then had a few howlers.
Sorry GIC, but I'll only grant you 50% of the night. There were two McGovern's out there last night.
1. The superstar intercept marker
2. The star struck 12 yo making the most fundamental mistakes and fumbles.
Drove me mad all night.
I can’t help but think we should have played two rucks
Pittonet was still injured this week.
Four umpires yet none of them saw McKay, Cripps & Curnow continually being held or blocked, somtimes they were bearhugs, other times they were sleeper holds.
Woeful umpiring !!
Four umpires yet none of them saw McKay, Cripps & Curnow continually being held or blocked, somtimes they were bearhugs, other times they were sleeper holds.
Woeful umpiring !!
I would be asking for clarification on some of those Grimes non decisions. If it's not holding then what would you actually call it?
Four umpires yet none of them saw McKay, Cripps & Curnow continually being held or blocked, somtimes they were bearhugs, other times they were sleeper holds.
Woeful umpiring !!
Yes, I just do not get it, it can't be that the event is unsighted, looking at replays today you can sometimes see the umpire in the vision looking at the contest from less than 10m away.
Twice I saw Charlie jump for the footy with Grimes or some other defender hanging onto him around his waist.
With BigH it's a bit different, the Nthmond small/medium defenders jump into his from front on, they basically fly from the side turning their back into BigH with zero intent to mark the footy.
Years ago at junior footy I would see coaches do the very same to Weiters, simply because he was so dominant, it was crap coaching and even worse umpiring. In the end one day Weiters was carted off with a concussion from being simultaneously hit front on while he was tunnelled from behind in the marking contest. He never even got a free kick, they restarted with a ball up up after the ambulance that collected Weiters had left the field of play!
All this crap started years ago when umpires started ignoring blokes like Franklin and Hall putting their hands in defender's backs, BT would commentate and bitch and moan if the forwards were pinged, now to even things up umpires let all this stupid wrestling and scragging persist, it's bullsh1t football and rubbish umpiring, and a major reason why we are unlikely to ever see KPFs have 100 goals season regularly.
The one that got away, or a bonus 2 points?
TBH, I thought we were outplayed on the night, and so I think it's more of the bonus category.
Our inability to transition from defence to attack is our major achilles heel, we just seem to have no plan other than the dump kick to the wing, and the ball ends up trapped in our defensive 50 for long periods of time. Until this gets sorted, we have no hope against the top sides.
Huge shout out to our backline... 66 forward entries for the Tiggers, yet the boys limited them to a modest return, ably assisted by team defensive discipline.
The Tiggers brought their very best and much of the game was played on their terms, but our desire and intensity and defensive pressure was first rate. We've progressed. Plenty to be learned from that outing and plenty to be proud of. Last year I reckon the Tiggers win that game by 3-5 goals.
Newbies did their bit.
Plenty of good footy left in Edward C.
Missed Pitto's agro in the ruck, though TDK gave his all and didn't have his colours lowered.
H and Charles were always dangerous and although I thought the umpiring was consistent and pretty good there were too many infringements on Charles, missed or dismissed by the umps, including a clanger right in front of goals at a critical stage (though there were many critical stages in the game!).
Disappointed with Zackery F, Owies, JSOS and Martin. Although the game style might not have suited them, there just wasn't enough from them. I would definitely be looking at Small Durds and Honey, at least, for a call up for our game against the pussycats.
And I believe that MBB is absolutely right re the JSOS experiment in the ruck. Toss it out.
Our inability to transition from defence to attack is our major achilles heel,
When I watched some highlights this morning I've come to the exact opposite conclusion.
What you saw last night from our defence was a symptom of zero pressure coming out of our F50, created by doubt and fear of the ball being turned over up the field.
Our biggest problem is we have almost zero run and chase, we've hardly a small forward who could catch molasses in an uphill race. Motlop is learning the Martin ways early, he'll be no good if that persists for too long, lazy, uninterested in the chase, looking for highlights. Fisher went absent outside of goal range, Owies looks to have lost pace or is playing injured. FFS, they made a 1st gamer look like a running God!
Charlie and BigH are great F50 targets but exert zero pressure once they aren't in the hunt for the pill, if they can't clunk it they have a problem, which is bizarre because they both have A-Grade recovery and ground ball skills, but it's like they have decided it's not their go to move too much, coaching?
Outside of Hewett our midfield is like treacle, unescapable when you're trapped on the inside with it, but out of consideration and not a threat once you are set free.
One of two things has to happen, either our skills improve dramatically and we stop with the pissweak deflating turnovers, or we find some pace to cover over all the feck ups!
Voss must have been watching last night and thinking back to his Brisbane career, "Oh no not again!"
The one that got away, or a bonus 2 points?
TBH, I thought we were outplayed on the night, and so I think it's more of the bonus category.
Our inability to transition from defence to attack is our major achilles heel, we just seem to have no plan other than the dump kick to the wing, and the ball ends up trapped in our defensive 50 for long periods of time. Until this gets sorted, we have no hope against the top sides.
Spot on.
Apart from Saad we have no one from the back 50 willing or able to break a line. Really miss Walsh and maybe even Cottrell to some extent just for his ability to take the game on. Would have thought Voss and co would have come up with a few strategies when we get locked in but didn’t see it last night. And to further compound things we also struggled to lock the ball in when we were attacking.
All things considered our key defenders really held up and it’s thanks to them we are sharing the points.
What we were trying to achieve last night was to domonstrate we have the ability to tough a game out, against good opposition, and not drop our bundle. We largely did this, just a pity we couldn't make it a win.
We still look like we are a couple of players short to me. I'll leave it a couple of games before getting specific. However, was very pleased with the two newbies, very promising imho.
Silvagni attended 18 ruck contests for 2 hit outs. Not a ruckman and it probably hurts his forward work which was poor last night.
Last year in round 1 Pittonet had a good battle with Nankervis for most of the game which allowed a fresh TDK to smash him in the final term.
Its time to end this Silvagni in the ruck nonsense. It doesn't work and our results in the 2nd half of last year show this.
I generally agree.
I generally agree.
100 up, is that enough?
SoJ had that look of resignation last night, I suspect we need a genuine 2nd ruck in when we play against the likes of Nankervis, and only one of either SoJ or Martin in the squad, but not both.
Personally, on last night, I'd have SoJ back to the wing where I think he plays his best footy, and Akers out. Akers is a long term career professional footballer, last night he looked greener than Hollands and Cowan! But being a newbie to our squad, Akers probably gets some leeway.
Cripps was more effective at F50 stoppages rucking than SoJ, but if we go that route TDK is wasted, because he is not a D50 type ruck, Pitto is a better choice to drop behind play leaving one of the KPFs to ruck. Having TDK, BigH, Cripps and Charlie all around the F50 stoppages leaves us slow and inflexible. Fans don't want to hear that, but I think it was obvious last night. We won very few F50 stoppages, and they frequently ran the ball out without resistance, when we got it back it was mostly due to uncharacteristic poor disposal from Nthmond.
In fact as a game, the skill level was deplorable across the board.
@LordLucifer The missus kept asking me what this means, and I think I worked it out!
(https://www.pngitem.com/pimgs/m/4-42569_blue-power-button-icon-hd-png-download.png)
Turn off the lights, and don't let the door hit you in the ar5e on the way out!
I'm not sure what to take away from the game. Whilst it's too early to hit the panic button, I was a little concerned that we lost the territory battle, and more concerned about being beaten around the ball. This has not being a forte under Hardwick, but it is under Voss. Some of the boys certainly looked rusty, and a little sluggish. I thought at times Richmond opened us up far too easily. Both teams had good and crap moments. Splitting the points is probably about right.
I heard Voss in the post match say that if this game happened last season, we would have lost by 6 goals.
Three in a low scoring game on one of the premier FB's in the league makes him a contributor much like Charlie was at the other end imho. What did you think of Jack Martins game?...did I miss anything that he did behind play that could class him as a contributor? or could we have put a corpse on the field in jumper No 21 and got the same result?
I watched him run around a fair bit but seemingly to all the wrong place most of the times. I saw him lay a few tackles but as many have said, a bloke of his calibre needs to impact more. I saw him with ice on both calves after the game. Personally I'd like to see him cover less km but be more impactful with his touches, think Cyril Rioli (only needed to touch it a handful of times to destroy a game). It could be rust (first real game back), he simply needs to help us more. He is a good tackler, quick off the mark, good overhead, a beautiful kick, just needs to hurt opo more.
Doc had a crack at SOS for sitting in his car in the carpark while Jack was recognised for his 100 game milestone. Fair enough too!
Steven may be working for another club but that's insensitive behaviour at best.
I think that Rita's comment about it being sad that Sergio wasn't there to see Jack's 100th game was spot on. He would have been so proud of his grandson.
Doc had a crack at SOS for sitting in his car in the carpark while Jack was recognised for his 100 game milestone. Fair enough too!
Steven may be working for another club but that's insensitive behaviour at best.
I think that Rita's comment about it being sad that Sergio wasn't there to see Jack's 100th game was spot on. He would have been so proud of his grandson.
Jack looked sad in the footage of the family photo celebrating his 100th.
Afaic family is much more important than any job or jobs. I'd be a father and support my son. No matter the circumstances. Moments like that are precious and tend to be well remembered.
I'm not sure what to take away from the game. Whilst it's too early to hit the panic button, I was a little concerned that we lost the territory battle, and more concerned about being beaten around the ball. This has not being a forte under Hardwick, but it is under Voss. Some of the boys certainly looked rusty, and a little sluggish. I thought at times Richmond opened us up far too easily. Both teams had good and crap moments. Splitting the points is probably about right.
I heard Voss in the post match say that if this game happened last season, we would have lost by 6 goals.
Yes hid did say that, also said we were in it and could have won it by playing a different way (which he considered a positive). It was a game of moments, their little center square clearance burst period in the 3rd, a couple of misses by both sides (Showpony Bolton was a particularly hurtful one for them), a block which allowed Lynch to mark and equalise, a slip by H and a spill by Acres. I would also say the wind swirled and changed direction a few times which caught a few out I reckon. First qtr favored our end then by the 3rd it changed, then again in the 4th.
Got away with 2 points. While the defence held up under pressure, our new game plan of bomb it out of defensive 50 with no composure adds to bomb it to the forwards and hope.
Ordinary game, and quite boring to watch (on TV anyway) - as others have said. Basically it was 14 goals for the match (given that the first two were scored within the first couple of minutes).
Silvagni attended 18 ruck contests for 2 hit outs. Not a ruckman and it probably hurts his forward work which was poor last night.
Last year in round 1 Pittonet had a good battle with Nankervis for most of the game which allowed a fresh TDK to smash him in the final term.
Its time to end this Silvagni in the ruck nonsense. It doesn't work and our results in the 2nd half of last year show this.
All I'll say is that if Tommy D wants to be the Big Dog of the ruck department, Nank showed him he isnt quite there yet.
Doc had a crack at SOS for sitting in his car in the carpark while Jack was recognised for his 100 game milestone. Fair enough too!
Steven may be working for another club but that's insensitive behaviour at best.
I think that Rita's comment about it being sad that Sergio wasn't there to see Jack's 100th game was spot on. He would have been so proud of his grandson.
And I will just about guarantee you, if Serge was here, SOS wouldn't have behaved like that . He would have gone down to the car park and dragged him out of the car by his ears.
I was fuming at several poor decisions at the time but, on reflection, the umpires were consistent and deserve acknowledgment for a well adjudicated game.
They did miss Dusty’s first fend off which was probably more blatantly holding the ball.
I agree, generally they were very good I thought. For me the dubious one was the Rioli free or mark (not sure what they paid) but it was neither a mark or free for mine.
And I will just about guarantee you, if Serge was here, SOS wouldn't have behaved like that . He would have gone down to the car park and dragged him out of the car by his ears.
I'm sure you're right!
Just had another look at the replay I'll take the 2 points. Some positives and some of the usual negatives. would have lost by 6 goals last year.
Tiggers would have beaten most teams on that performance last night. Hardwick was fuming in his presser and stated that their pressure was 'Elite'. Blamed their finishing.
Big plus for the MC playing the two kids. They will only get better. Not sure about TDK and SOS in the ruck.
Next week they we will probably do the same against the Premiers.
Really miss Sammy W. Hope he can get back soon.
Long season and we will only get better. Not sure the Tiggers will :)) :)) :))
Tonyo, I thought we were very, very ordinary and the tigers blew a few soft goals. Our decision making late in games is still awful which is a major concern. I'd take the two bonus points, because that's what they are IMO.
I'm sure you're right!
I'm Italian, I know I'm right on this one. ;)
Tonyo, I thought we were very, very ordinary and the tigers blew a few soft goals. Our decision making late in games is still awful which is a major concern. I'd take the two bonus points, because that's what they are IMO.
I thought the exact opposite Prof, I thought our decision making late when the game was in the balance was excellent. The execution of a couple of things was poor.
Seriously pathetic by the old man. I would be dead set embarrassed. He has form though so probably not a real surprise. Real shame
FFS, if that true it is pathetic, if it is true SOS is lost to me know, I'm glad I refer to Jack as SoJ(Son of Jo)!
I'm sure I'll cop some abuse, but I tell you I am not surprised. I have mentioned to many on here previously, that fans can't believe the players from that era aren't all best buddies, in fact quite the opposite and many won't even speak to each other. I think polarising is the term I used to describe them, I had learned quite a bit about this from direct discussions with one former player.
Fans tend to idolise the past players, but when you do that without accountability you end up with a James Hird personality!
PS; This perhaps explains some of that look on SoJ's face after the siren, he knew what was coming!
I thought the exact opposite Prof, I thought our decision making late when the game was in the balance was excellent. The execution of a couple of things was poor.
I agree. We had one structural lapse that cost us the lead after controlling the game for almost all of the last seven minutes. The last centre bounce play was good, but we ran out of time.
Of course, we could have done better and the coaches will be working on that.
I wonder whether Ross the Toss's comments through the week regarding information being passed between father and son mightn't have caused a bit of an issue with Jack and Dad.
On the surface it seems like poor form by SOS, but he may have thought there would be a few who would have had a shot at him if he went into the rooms.
On the surface it seems like poor form by SOS, but he may have thought there would be a few who would have had a shot at him if he went into the rooms.
That would be the fault of those idiots, not the father, but now it's SoS's problem.
FMD, what father wouldn't stand by his child on the front line?
I get your post, I get my anger, we don't want it to be true, but I fear it is!
Fans should have this type of banner at next weeks game!
(https://www.blueseum.org/show_image.php?id=46322&scalesize=0&nocount=y)
Living the dream Jack, live it up!
On top of the ladder by alphabet lol.
I wonder whether Ross the Toss's comments through the week regarding information being passed between father and son mightn't have caused a bit of an issue with Jack and Dad.
On the surface it seems like poor form by SOS, but he may have thought there would be a few who would have had a shot at him if he went into the rooms.
If a father takes direction from such %><*# sources, he shows where his loyalties lie.
I don't know what happened. IF.. it was father's choice, he's no longer part of my famed Carlton narrative.
In summary.
Forwards
- red hot - ice cold
- forgotten front and centre (Owies goal aside)
- not accountable once the ball was lost
Mids
- patchy
- poor around stoppages
Ruck
- a disadvantage
Defence
- united on the front line
- cohesion should only improve
- stood tall under fire
- solid individual efforts
General
Lacked finishing off
Lacked holding it in
Multiple tacklers leaves oppo loose and limited groundball use - work that out
Saad's desperate point saving heroics may have spared us L. That's the intent, attention to details, and effort that wins games
Debutants were solid 🙌🙌
LP List management thread pre-game
I won't be at all surprised to find some late changes tonight, with Pitto in as well as TDK. Because I'd have Pitto on the ground whenever Nthmond look to have the momentum so he can float into D50 to stop the opportunities for Riewoldt and Dusty, and I'd have TDK on the field whenever our Mids are on top. Maximise the attack, and minimise the damage, keep the differential in our favour.
Like in the final seconds 😕
In summary.
Forwards
- red hot - ice cold
- forgotten front and centre (Owies goal aside)
- not accountable once the ball was lost
Mids
- patchy
- poor around stoppages
Ruck
- a disadvantage
Defence
- united on the front line
- cohesion should only improve
- stood tall under fire
- solid individual efforts
General
Lacked finishing off
Lacked holding it in
Multiple tacklers leaves oppo loose and limited groundball use - work that out
Saad's desperate point saving heroics may have spared us L. That's the intent, attention to details, and effort that wins games
Debutants were solid 🙌🙌
Love your work LN
O'Brien didn't learn anything from his mistakes late last year.
Delist.
O'Brien didn't learn anything from his mistakes late last year.
Delist.
Unlucky to not get a free on the final siren to win the game. Second bloke in was high.
Watching the replay, I forgot about the point that rolled through for us in the 1/2 time siren. That ultimately cost Richmond the win which goes to show, EVERY score (or defending EVERY score) matters.
Watching the replay, I forgot about the point that rolled through for us in the 1/2 time siren. That ultimately cost Richmond the win which goes to show, EVERY score (or defending EVERY score) matters.
A warm feeling come across me as I picture Dimma watching the replay, he was probably walking down to the bench at that stage, but he'll see it! ;D
Watching the replay, I forgot about the point that rolled through for us in the 1/2 time siren. That ultimately cost Richmond the win which goes to show, EVERY score (or defending EVERY score) matters.
Oh yes! 😂 that makes me feel a lot better.
At the game I was a bit worried Lynch would get a point and we’d fluff it on our kick out afterwards so the draw was kind of a relief tbh.
Thought LOB did a fantastic run - he was only on for that quarter! His kick was probably a little
Late but dead on to H who unfortunately slipped 🤷🏻♀️
Shame about the last 20 seconds but take the 2 points and move on
Oh yes! 😂 that makes me feel a lot better.
At the game I was a bit worried Lynch would get a point and we’d fluff it on our kick out afterwards so the draw was kind of a relief tbh.
I had the same feelings. If Lynch kicked a behind I have no doubt they would have got the 7 point play.
Seriously pathetic by the old man. I would be dead set embarrassed. He has form though so probably not a real surprise. Real shame
Yep.
Really embarrassing that SOS put his own bitterness ahead of his son's terrific achievement.
The moment is now lost and one that SOS will likely live to regret. The hurt and rejection that this action would have probably caused JSOS can only be imaged.
I think his actions when spectating have shown his attitude and I agree its not right to include Jack in his bitterness towards the club and he should support his son and separate his feelings.
I think his tough 'hard to please' attitude is part of the reason Jack is as good as he is. Always trying to get his fathers approval sort of thing.
I'm sure the therapy sessions he goes through later in life will back that up.
At least for now, its benefiting us.
I think his tough 'hard to please' attitude is part of the reason Jack is as good as he is. Always trying to get his fathers approval sort of thing.
I'm sure the therapy sessions he goes through later in life will back that up.
At least for now, its benefiting us.
Being a parent isnt easy as a lot of us know but I always took the view work and business is separate from family and my wife and children would always be the priority and I would be there to support them and put them first.
I dont do forgiveness very well in terms of business and have been screwed over by an employer but I would have made an appearance, done the photo, told my son well done mate I am proud of you, shaken hands with the people I liked, ignored the ones I dont like then left without any fuss. I recently had to be civil and nice at a function to people I could have cheerfully fired up to Mars on a one way trip. I gave a lovely cheesy speech that I cringed about later but MrsE said do it for her as it was important and thats what you have to do when its family and Im still a bit shocked with SOS doing what he did as well as his performances in recent times when Jack has deserved some applause and praise during games and he has sat there with that scowl on his face..
Was on a hiding to nothing was SOS.
After the week that was mentioned about Jack and SOS and then St. Kilda, it was always going to be rough for Stephen to make his way into the rooms of an opposition club because there is intel that may get out.
They are privy to a lot of information that isnt public, and SOS was going to cop it no matter what if he was in there.
Being a parent isnt easy as a lot of us know but I always took the view work and business is separate from family and my wife and children would always be the priority and I would be there to support them and put them first.
I dont do forgiveness very well in terms of business and have been screwed over by an employer but I would have made an appearance, done the photo, told my son well done mate I am proud of you, shaken hands with the people I liked, ignored the ones I dont like then left without any fuss. I recently had to be civil and nice at a function to people I could have cheerfully fired up to Mars on a one way trip. I gave a lovely cheesy speech that I cringed about later but MrsE said do it for her as it was important and thats what you have to do when its family and Im still a bit shocked with SOS doing what he did as well as his performances in recent times when Jack has deserved some applause and praise during games and he has sat there with that scowl on his face..
You're a good man EB.
Was on a hiding to nothing was SOS.
After the week that was mentioned about Jack and SOS and then St. Kilda, it was always going to be rough for Stephen to make his way into the rooms of an opposition club because there is intel that may get out.
They are privy to a lot of information that isnt public, and SOS was going to cop it no matter what if he was in there.
Its your son mate. Put your big boy pants on and get it done for him.
Its your son mate. Put your big boy pants on and get it done for him.
Had he gone in, there would have been a lot of talk about the club looking unproffesional letting in an opposition administrator, add a poached player to the Saints at the end of year, or a loss against the Saints and then what?
He will see his son after the game, and chat to him as a father and none of that crap will matter, and nor will it be something that causes some angst between the club and Jack.
Like I said was on a hiding to nothing.
In a way I can kind of relate to what Jack may be experiencing.
My Dad was on the board of an RSL club and good friends with the secretary-manager.
It was my first job, working as a barman.
After a year or two they had a falling out.
Life suddenly became a bit uncomfortable.
One duty manager in particular went out of his way to give us a bit of a hard time. I spent some time cleaning ashtrays, and taking the reserved sign off poker machines if the patron had stayed away too long.... (world's worst job for abuse)
I kept working and eventually this bloke came to me and said he was sorry for some of the issues we'd had and that he admired the way I'd stuck with it.
Dad and the boss also patched up their quarrel, but I'd left by then.
I believed SOS's issues were more with individuals and not the club, but it seems that even with their departure some problems still remain.
Are these issues with a few folk still involved at the club at a higher level....who knows?
Perhaps the Silvagni situation highlights something we've argued about in the past.
Is it a good idea for a father to be in a position of responsibility such as coach or list manager at a team where his son plays?
It can work while everything is travelling well (e.g. the Cleary's at Penrith in the NRL).
But when it goes pear-shaped and there is an acrimonious split it causes a bit of grief...especially for the player.
Jack doesn't need that distraction.
You're a good man EB.
I try to be GTC but everyone has their moments they regret...Family always come first though and I know you and most of the crew on the forum would see it the same and be there for your wife and kids when required even when it means having to swallow your pride and take a hit for the team.
Was on a hiding to nothing was SOS.
After the week that was mentioned about Jack and SOS and then St. Kilda, it was always going to be rough for Stephen to make his way into the rooms of an opposition club because there is intel that may get out.
They are privy to a lot of information that isnt public, and SOS was going to cop it no matter what if he was in there.
Spot on.
Was on a hiding to nothing was SOS.
After the week that was mentioned about Jack and SOS and then St. Kilda, it was always going to be rough for Stephen to make his way into the rooms of an opposition club because there is intel that may get out.
They are privy to a lot of information that isnt public, and SOS was going to cop it no matter what if he was in there.
You dont think SOS strolling in to celebrate his sons achievement with his chin up would have shown who the bigger and better man was. I probably would have said Im proud of Jack and the list I built and its great seeing the club successful now its being managed by a class operator in Brian Cook..or words to that effect.
Had he gone in, there would have been a lot of talk about the club looking unproffesional letting in an opposition administrator, add a poached player to the Saints at the end of year, or a loss against the Saints and then what?
He will see his son after the game, and chat to him as a father and none of that crap will matter, and nor will it be something that causes some angst between the club and Jack.
Like I said was on a hiding to nothing.
with respect, rubbish. I can't remember who, maybe someone else can, but recently an official from another club was in the rooms or at the club to support his son's. Maybe it was a boy who was drafted? In any case, nothing was said, at the end of the day, clubs are professional. The media, well someone like SOS has been around long enough to not take much notice. He has actually caused more of a drama by doing what he has done. Just a kent in my opinion, he and Ross make a good couple.
Had he gone in, there would have been a lot of talk about the club looking unproffesional letting in an opposition administrator, add a poached player to the Saints at the end of year, or a loss against the Saints and then what?
He will see his son after the game, and chat to him as a father and none of that crap will matter, and nor will it be something that causes some angst between the club and Jack.
Like I said was on a hiding to nothing.
And those who brought up that line of being unprofessional etc would be shouted down by the masses who are pointing out its a club great celebrating with his son. For that night only, he was a father, not an administrator.
SOS' biggest shortfall is also his greatest asset.....his stubborness. He used it as a footballer to ensure he wouldn't get beaten by his opponent either forward or back. Its come back to bite him post career with his falling out with the club.....twice.
Nobody is perfect. Majority would NOT have done what SOS did (or didn't do) but thats what makes SOS, SOS. Take him as he is, warts and all.
You can follow Ben's take on it in replies to Mitch Cleary on Twitter
https://twitter.com/bensilvagni/status/1636337753565855744?cxt=HBwWgIDU3YyhuLUtAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email
Not sure if he was acting or genuinely saw things he liked, but Voss seemed rather upbeat in the post match.
Not sure if he was acting or genuinely saw things he liked, but Voss seemed rather upbeat in the post match.
I reckon he may have been a bit apprehensive coming into the game.
He probably hoped for a good showing, maybe even a win, but in the back of his mind he would probably have been thinking the worst thing that could happen to start the season would be a five or six goal loss.
It would kill expectations and have us on the back foot to start the year.
Richmond went in as favourites, despite the hype around us, they're a good side who will likely be there at the end of the year.
There may even have been an element of relief from Voss in the post match.
"That's out of the way, there's a few things to work on, but lots of positives and improvement to come as well. We didn't play to our best but we still didn't lose the game."
Apparently Jack was upset his old man didnt go into the rooms for the post match photos with family. I know he works at another club but it’s your son mate.
Indeed, this is something I hope Stephen will look on with shame. It was a very special thing, the first person to have 3 generations of player to play 100+ games at the same club. I'm not surprised Jack wasn't happy. It was a very puny thing to do. I expected Stephen to be bigger than that for his son.
Lewis Young was huge I thought
Absolutely! He gave Riewoldt a bath. His calmness was also a real positive. Young was going nowhere at the Dogs, now he is becoming a player to notice.
Absolutely! He gave Riewoldt a bath. His calmness was also a real positive. Young was going nowhere at the Dogs, now he is becoming a player to notice.
It's a good thing he was given a chance to play another position.
Our midfield is one paced and we struggle to move or break any lines and can’t deliver the final blow all the good team can when on top. We keep them all within striking distance and then clam up when the pressure keeps building.
Really miss Walsh as a connecting player and we are still carrying too many players who do very little yet still keep their spot.
I know it’s only round one but I didn’t see a finals team tonight.
You are right: most of our mids are the in and under type. That means they don't tend to be the fastest of players. However, we have recruited to do something about that. It is just a little early to see the results. When guys like Small Durds and Hollands are buzzing around, buts like Cottrell are available, and, most importantly, Walsh is in there and playing well, our midfield will be a different proposition.
What worried me more last night was the lack of defensive pressure some of our forwards provided. Charlie, especially, although Jack Martin was another significant one. I want to see them run guys down from behind, want to see the desire when the ball gets near them. H had it last night. He ran hard and often and took a huge number of marks that the Richmond defence couldn't do anything about..
Thought Gov was pretty solid for 99% of the night, then had a few howlers.
Weiters did well on Lynch all night, got caught out by an assy bloke by Taranto hich allowed Lynch to mark it and goal to square the game.
Very accurate. For 3 quarters McGovern more than held his own. He was excellent. Then, all of a sudden, his composure simply disappeared and he made a series of serious errors. He will be better for it.
Silvagni attended 18 ruck contests for 2 hit outs. Not a ruckman and it probably hurts his forward work which was poor last night.
Last year in round 1 Pittonet had a good battle with Nankervis for most of the game which allowed a fresh TDK to smash him in the final term.
Its time to end this Silvagni in the ruck nonsense. It doesn't work and our results in the 2nd half of last year show this.
I have t agree. It worked somewhat because it was unexpected. It doesn't now. Clubs are ready for it, and it does nothing to help Jack's play.
We need Pitto back, but is he fit enough yet? Do we try one of the kids, or would be be less effective than Jack?
I don't know, but I really want to see Pitto play like he did early last year. It is take some weeks to have him find real form, I'll live with it (and won't like it), but we need a bull ruckman on the ground.
One other thing, I don't recall seeing us do any of those around-the-corner-no-look-hack-kicks (ATCNLHK) that invariably get turned over. Not even Ed attempted one. They are the bane of my CFC existence.
Absolutely! He gave Riewoldt a bath. His calmness was also a real positive. Young was going nowhere at the Dogs, now he is becoming a player to notice.
Fancy that. Come to Carlton and resurrect your career. That’s a new storyline.
Very accurate. For 3 quarters McGovern more than held his own. He was excellent. Then, all of a sudden, his composure simply disappeared and he made a series of serious errors. He will be better for it.
A bit behind in match fitness perhaps 🤔
He improves our backline significantly. Reads the play so well. Hope he can get and stay fit this year.
Had he gone in, there would have been a lot of talk about the club looking unproffesional letting in an opposition administrator, add a poached player to the Saints at the end of year, or a loss against the Saints and then what?
He will see his son after the game, and chat to him as a father and none of that crap will matter, and nor will it be something that causes some angst between the club and Jack.
Like I said was on a hiding to nothing.
I guess the professional way to have managed it by SOS and the club would have been to get everyone on the ground after the siren…
Opportunity missed.
You can follow Ben's take on it in replies to Mitch Cleary on Twitter
https://twitter.com/bensilvagni/status/1636337753565855744?cxt=HBwWgIDU3YyhuLUtAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email
Sounds like we found out Ben is very supportive of his old man, and we might have just found out why he got delisted. Sounds like the Silvagnis arent happy with the Carlton Football club to me.
Had he gone in, there would have been a lot of talk about the club looking unproffesional letting in an opposition administrator, add a poached player to the Saints at the end of year, or a loss against the Saints and then what?
He will see his son after the game, and chat to him as a father and none of that crap will matter, and nor will it be something that causes some angst between the club and Jack.
Like I said was on a hiding to nothing.
The thing is that he was invited and was expected to attend but, for whatever reason, chose to hide in the carpark rather than take part in a celebration that was important to his son, wife and mother. I imagine that Stephen will be dining on cold shoulder and hot tongue for some time.
Stephen has always been one of my favourite footballers and I excused his inability to show any joy in Jack's achievements as a stoic father not wishing to show his emotions in public. Not attending Jack's 100 game celebration was simply pathetic.
Folk from other clubs are always in the rooms after games, particularly former players who have connections with other clubs. My ex-Carlton mates, despite playing more games for other clubs, identify themselves as Carlton players first and foremost, and are happy to overlook any issues from back in the day.
You can follow Ben's take on it in replies to Mitch Cleary on Twitter
https://twitter.com/bensilvagni/status/1636337753565855744?cxt=HBwWgIDU3YyhuLUtAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email
Pathetic!
What worried me more last night was the lack of defensive pressure some of our forwards provided. Charlie, especially
For such an athletic player, he rarely shows any acceleration or desire to chase.
Sounds like we found out Ben is very supportive of his old man, and we might have just found out why he got delisted. Sounds like the Silvagnis arent happy with the Carlton Football club to me.
I can understand SOS being upset with certain prominent figures at the club when he left.
I struggle to understand his ill feeling to the entity that is the club.
Those he had issues with have pretty much departed.
There must be a couple there he continues to harbour some pretty intense problems with.
I doubt we'll here him speak.
Ben's thoughts probably reflect his anyway.
But it certainly hasn't gone down well with Carlton folk.
I can understand SOS being upset with certain prominent figures at the club when he left.
I struggle to understand his ill feeling to the entity that is the club.
Those he had issues with have pretty much departed.
There must be a couple there he continues to harbour some pretty intense problems with.
I doubt we'll here him speak.
Ben's thoughts probably reflect his anyway.
But it certainly hasn't gone down well with Carlton folk.
Sad. But when you're a person given to grudge holding and bitterness... well, we can see what happens. As the old saying goes, 'bitterness toward another is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick...'
If Jack is fine with it then what's the big deal? It's a game of footy not a wedding.
We sacked him because our CEO said he was going to sabotage the club. Who here would go back to their workplace after that?
If Jack is fine with it then what's the big deal? It's a game of footy not a wedding.
We sacked him because our CEO said he was going to sabotage the club. Who here would go back to their workplace after that?
If the CEO is no longer there you'd be back in a heartbeat....
If you wanted to.
But SOS was always planning to leave.
His departure was just fast-tracked.
...and that was probably a reasonable thing.
If a bloke is going to leave you may as well cut the ties and get the new structure established.
Pathetic!
His problem, not ours, we move on.
Four umpires yet none of them saw McKay, Cripps & Curnow continually being held or blocked, somtimes they were bearhugs, other times they were sleeper holds.
Woeful umpiring !!
To be honest, I wasn't that disappointed in the Umpires. For much of the game they quite reasonable. But the way Grimes, in particular, and the Richmond defence as a unit, held and scragged our forwards without being penalized was beyond me. I recall Charlie being held in a headlock in one confrontation on the wing (which I think H marked anyway). That is something that really needs to be addressed.
Mind you, we also need to give Charlie a chance. We delivered the ball incredibly poorly to our forwards all night. Never once did we open the forward line and give a forward a chance to lead towards the ball. Some of that was because we won so few centre clearances; Richmond was usually given time to match up on our forwards. But, until we have our ruck combination right, that is gong to be elusive.
Fisher is a disappointing footballer imo. 6 touches in first quarter and then 1 more for the next 3.
Did not touch the footy after half time. Nothing.
Martin is even worse imo. The bloke jogs around at half pace and shows no desire to get out of first gear.
Both of these guys are teasers.
If we are going to make the leap up we can’t accept consistent below par performances regardless of their potential or highlight reel cameos they pull out every now and then.
Prefer to see blokes like kemp honey given more chances.
The lack of pressure from Fisher and Martin was very disappointing. Fish really needs to lift his game.
The lack of pressure from Fisher and Martin was very disappointing. Fish really needs to lift his game.
The coaching panel might say that the game didn't suit him, I'd question that (if it were the case). At best he's a cameo small forward and as a midfielding his size is against him. Goes missing for long periods far too often. I'd give someone else a go in his role.
The lack of pressure from Fisher and Martin was very disappointing. Fish really needs to lift his game.
...as for Martin, time for a rest and as for Fisher, give someone else a go. I'd put Owies in that equation as well... just not quite AFL standard. And JSOS should focus on his forward craft only... no more ruck nonsense.
I've had a few days to consider my reaction to the game, now, but I haven't changed my mind much from the night.
[1] Richmond appear to want the ball more as a unit than we do. They'd gut-run to make a contest. Some of our guys are like that. I recall 2 fantastic efforts from Saad and one from McGovern that really stood out. But our forward were really lacking in intensity.
[2] Our ruck situation is not helping us. Tome de Koning worked hard, competed well and did his best, but he didn't get the taps and didn't direct the taps he got. He doesn't do that well against the really strong rucks, and Nankervis is one of those.
Jack tried his guts out, but he isn't a ruck and it shows. Time for a different plan.
Reading that Pittonet did well for the 2nds makes me think it will be sooner rather than later when he returns to the senior side. I am quite happy about that.
[3] Considering that we never had the ball delivered to our mids in a reasonable fashion, our midfield actually stood up quite well. George Hewett was excellent all night. Cripps lifted when it mattered. Cerra, Kennedy and Docherty were more than serviceable, everything considered. But we really didn't get much from our few centre breaks, as they were not the high quality things we had early last year.
[4] Tom de Koning is improving as a ruckman. I loved his attack on the ball. He made a few clearances out of nothing. However, he isn't strong enough to handle guys like Nankervis. he took a couple of brilliant marks, but fumbled a lot of others and his kicking was ... debateable.
[5] When your 2 key defenders take 19 marks between them, it says something about how they played. Kudos to Young and Weitering. But for a few push in the backs that were not paid, Lynch would have had 1 goal, not 3.
[6] It was very obvious that we lacked match practice. In season past there would be 4 games to hone the skills and get used to the contact. Nothing like that now. It really showed. We were seriously underdone and it was obvious in a lot of ways.
Is it worth having this 'Gather Round' idiocy to abandon the pres-season? Personally, I don't think so.
[7] I hate Thursday Night football. It really doesn't suit me in any way. I had to miss one tutoring session (I usually work until 19:10 on Thursdays). The trains weren't running. Instead of getting on at Ringwood, I had to drive to Syndal to get a train. The food at the MCG is pathetic. I never have enough room to straighten out my dodgy knees. I didn't even get the see the first bounce, or the first 3 goals. Then I have to wake up for work the next morning after getting to bed well after midnight, and I always find it hard to relax after the game.
The whole thing just doesn't suit me, and hasn't from the start. The first time they tried this thing I had a parent -teacher night on the same night. It doesn't allow people from the regions to get to the game and get home, even though I no longer have to go to Bendigo to get home. I really hate it.
[8] Fisher, Silvagni, Jack Martin and Charlie Curnow stood out as having poor games. This even with Charlie kicking 3 goals. Martin didn't put any pressure on at all, and allowed his opponent to run off him with little regard. Fisher likewse. Owies was quieter than he can be as well. That is not good.
[9] O'Brien wasn't that bad when he came on. He ran hard and made a contest. But his football intelligence is questionable. He had H on his own, but ran on until H was covered by 3 players. That just wasn't smart. Mind you, H should have marked the ball: it wasn't that bad a kick. he take that mark and the game is over.
[10] Cowan and Hollands were great first up, but neither were they that bad. Both did things that made you think they have a future. Not sure they will hold their places, assuming the fitness of their possible replacements, but they will be better for the run.
my take is that coaching panel has failed to add different game plan that failed us in 2022.We are still still going the long bomb either from Fullback or into F50 DOES NOT WORK. Our defence needs another two saads that can run split open game we are to slow . Quick ball movement is the key with our game style the opposition has plenty of time to set up .
I hate Thursday Night football. It really doesn't suit me in any way. I had to miss one tutoring session (I usually work until 19:10 on Thursdays). The trains weren't running. Instead of getting on at Ringwood, I had to drive to Syndal to get a train. The food at the MCG is pathetic. I never have enough room to straighten out my dodgy knees. I didn't even get the see the first bounce, or the first 3 goals. Then I have to wake up for work the next morning after getting to bed well after midnight, and I always find it hard to relax after the game.
The whole thing just doesn't suit me, and hasn't from the start. The first time they tried this thing I had a parent -teacher night on the same night. It doesn't allow people from the regions to get to the game and get home, even though I no longer have to go to Bendigo to get home. I really hate it.
I get it
@crashlander , but the big dollars comes from the broadcaster so it's never going back the way it was. I hate it too, lose and Friday, Sat and Sun suck, and usually you end up with a 9 or 10 day break before the next game, which just sucks even more.
If Jack is fine with it then what's the big deal? It's a game of footy not a wedding.
We sacked him because our CEO said he was going to sabotage the club. Who here would go back to their workplace after that?
And that CEO got the ass, move on SOS. He's just a stubborn fark.
The lack of pressure from Fisher and Martin was very disappointing. Fish really needs to lift his game.
After q1 I wondered where's Fish?
Martin shows intermittent brilliance. I'm not sure this accounts for his lack of consistency and chronic injury woes.
Dow evidently had a blinder playing more forward. He kicked 4. 2's I know but maybe there's a strategy there 🤔
Carroll also reported to have played well.
After q1 I wondered where's Fish?
Martin shows intermittent brilliance. I'm not sure this accounts for his lack of consistency and chronic injury woes.
Dow evidently had a blinder playing more forward. He kicked 4. 2's I know but maybe there's a strategy there 🤔
Carroll also reported to have played well.
Players from the 2s who dominate must displace players who performed poorly in the 1s. The only way to have true accountability is through consequences.
Players from the 2s who dominate must displace players who performed poorly in the 1s. The only way to have true accountability is through consequences.
Absolutely.
It's a hangover from the 'bad old days.' Vossy (and even TT) said that players have to earn their places, regardless of reputation. There's a little too much nice, still, and not enough ruthless.
Last year, owing to so many injuries, non-hackers with something of a reputation, escaped being dropped.
No more. Fisher, Martin and Owies, in particular, have been given more than enough opportunities. A message has to be sent and accountability enforced, that's what the very best do. Not to mention that blokes in consistent vg form in the Magoos deserve a go.
Absolutely.
It's a hangover from the 'bad old days.' Vossy (and even TT) said that players have to earn their places, regardless of reputation. There's a little too much nice, still, and not enough ruthless.
Last year, owing to so many injuries, non-hackers with something of a reputation, escaped being dropped.
No more. Fisher, Martin and Owies, in particular, have been given more than enough opportunities. A message has to be sent and accountability enforced, that's what the very best do. Not to mention that blokes in consistent vg form in the Magoos deserve a go.
I still have my fingers and toes crossed for Cunners although he looks all but gone there is a slim chance for him to still make it.
Lachie Fogarty is more of your Jack Graham type and would prefer him than Owies.
Fisher - time to play your role mate.
I still have my fingers and toes crossed for Cunners although he looks all but gone there is a slim chance for him to still make it.
Lachie Fogarty is more of your Jack Graham type and would prefer him than Owies.
Fisher - time to play your role mate.
Fog started at Carlton like a house on fire then disappeared seemingly for good.
Its sad that we have players like Cunners, Martin and even Marchy who could be absolutely anything but are seemingly always injured. Unfortunately patience will run out.
I still have my fingers and toes crossed for Cunners although he looks all but gone there is a slim chance for him to still make it.
Lachie Fogarty is more of your Jack Graham type and would prefer him than Owies.
Fisher - time to play your role mate.
Fogarty tackles well and while his kicking can be ropey at times I think he has been over looked a lot and deserves a shot.
He can get the hard ball and can bob up for a goal while playing several positions and I think much like Kennedy who looked gone at one stage if we gave him a decent run we might have ourselves a handy player.
You look at Owies, Fisher, Martin and they havent progressed as players or helped the team progress, jury out on Durdin and Motlop who havent played enough games to judge but I think we need to play the likes of Fogarty, Honey, Carroll, Dow to see what they have got and it might have the secondary effect of making the likes of Owies, Fisher and Martin see that they are not automatic selections and they need to lift their performance.
I dont see Cuningham being a regular player even if he makes it back as he is just too fragile especially with the pace the modern game is being played at and how quickly teams can rack up injuries like we saw last night.
Did the smart thing and left Melbourne straight after the game.
Once again we weren't able to close out the game but at least we got 2 points out of the game which is two more than we got last year in those last two games.
We need to hang on to the ball but to do this you need to be able to hit your targets, handle the ball cleanly and make good decisions. None of these things are Carlton's strengths. Our players dropped makable marks in the first and last minute of the game and a number of times throughout the game. We continually miss targets and our decision making under pressure is appalling. Our players seem to have a low football IQ. While a lot of people are blaming O'Brien, the only option being presented to him was McKay surrounded by Richmond players. Where was the team mate behind him calling for the ball. If someone was there and he turned around and kicked the ball that player, the game was over. In the end his options were kick it to McKay, hold the ball and get caught or kick the ball out deliberately. All these options would give Richmond a chance. The best option would probably be kick the ball out thirty rows back.
I thought we deserved to win but when Richmond was good they were better than us when we were being good. Richmond forwards looked more likely to kick goals than our forwards except for Charlie but he looked unlikely to get the ball. Their defence did better than I expected but if Harry had kicked straight this might have been different. I thought it was good that we were able to kick a couple of goals when they were all over us in the third quarter and once again if Harry had kicked straight the game outcome would probably have been different. Our defence was pretty good despite the bone head errors. What was of concern was our inability to transition from defence to attack. The midfields were a battle of attrition.
Happy with Hollands and Cowan, disappointed in Acres, McGovern and Martin. Senior players need to do better. Newman gave Dusty a bath.
Did the smart thing and left Melbourne straight after the game.
Once again we weren't able to close out the game but at least we got 2 points out of the game which is two more than we got last year in those last two games.
We need to hang on to the ball but to do this you need to be able to hit your targets, handle the ball cleanly and make good decisions. None of these things are Carlton's strengths. Our players dropped makable marks in the first and last minute of the game and a number of times throughout the game. We continually miss targets and our decision making under pressure is appalling. Our players seem to have a low football IQ. While a lot of people are blaming O'Brien, the only option being presented to him was McKay surrounded by Richmond players. Where was the team mate behind him calling for the ball. If someone was there and he turned around and kicked the ball that player, the game was over. In the end his options were kick it to McKay, hold the ball and get caught or kick the ball out deliberately. All these options would give Richmond a chance. The best option would probably be kick the ball out thirty rows back.
I thought we deserved to win but when Richmond was good they were better than us when we were being good. Richmond forwards looked more likely to kick goals than our forwards except for Charlie but he looked unlikely to get the ball. Their defence did better than I expected but if Harry had kicked straight this might have been different. I thought it was good that we were able to kick a couple of goals when they were all over us in the third quarter and once again if Harry had kicked straight the game outcome would probably have been different. Our defence was pretty good despite the bone head errors. What was of concern was our inability to transition from defence to attack. The midfields were a battle of attrition.
Happy with Hollands and Cowan, disappointed in Acres, McGovern and Martin. Senior players need to do better. Newman gave Dusty a bath.
I can see what Motlop was trying to do but at that point, the better option would have been to stop and waste time. We could have did the old kick to kick and ice the clock while setting up numbers behind the ball. Once LOB received the handball, he had no choice but to run. As for the kick, plenty have potted him for it but it was bang on. H slipped other wise he would have chest marked it.
I'm not sure what to take away from the game. Whilst it's too early to hit the panic button, I was a little concerned that we lost the territory battle, and more concerned about being beaten around the ball.
@PaulP Yes, Walsh excluded we were full strength, injury free with a midfield pocketing a full pre-season.
Or perhaps our injury reports aren't au fait!
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/03/19/carlton-star-goes-on-the-record-with-disappointment-at-mcg-surface/
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/03/19/carlton-star-goes-on-the-record-with-disappointment-at-mcg-surface/
Yep, and it's impacting the skills, so for me the AFL and MCG Trust have nowhere to hide!
Yep, and it's impacting the skills, so for me the AFL and MCG Trust have nowhere to hide!
Docherty seems like a fairly thoughtful, taciturn chap, not an attention seeking big mouth. Hopefully the AFL will pay attention when someone like him gives an opinion.
Hopefully the AFL will pay attention when someone like him gives an opinion.
I think the answer hides in how much someone like Ed Sheeran will make the venue and is worth in marketing, versus what is an AFL player worth?
Robbo thoughts
Stephen Silvagni’s principles
Everyone always wants a nice red bow tied around everything, but not this time Blues. The Carlton great was chastised for not being in a photograph with his son Jack and the family in the rooms, and instead chose to sit in his car. Well played, SOS. The irony of the Blues inviting SOS to celebrate with Jack and his brothers, when SOS was, in part, ingloriously punted by the club because his sons were on the list, can’t be ignored. Please, it was to be in a photo and we’re sure SOS would have thousands of photos of the family, and probably took a couple on the night anyhow. Clubs can’t throw people out with the trash and then expect them to come waltzing back in when they are invited to sit at the dining table. As someone famous said, if you don’t have principles, what have you got?
As someone famous said, if you don’t have principles, what have you got?
Petulance...maybe?
SOS's chief antagonist is long gone.
Robbo thoughts
Stephen Silvagni’s principles
Everyone always wants a nice red bow tied around everything, but not this time Blues. The Carlton great was chastised for not being in a photograph with his son Jack and the family in the rooms, and instead chose to sit in his car. Well played, SOS. The irony of the Blues inviting SOS to celebrate with Jack and his brothers, when SOS was, in part, ingloriously punted by the club because his sons were on the list, can’t be ignored. Please, it was to be in a photo and we’re sure SOS would have thousands of photos of the family, and probably took a couple on the night anyhow. Clubs can’t throw people out with the trash and then expect them to come waltzing back in when they are invited to sit at the dining table. As someone famous said, if you don’t have principles, what have you got?
Exactly the question for Flubbo should answer of himself. If he has any principles, they are unclear to me.
As for his opinion on SOS, I'm sorry, but that just isn't an accurate portrayal of what was going on.
Robbo thoughts
Stephen Silvagni’s principles
Flubbo's thoughts are irrelevant, he's just taking an opportunity to throw a rock at Carlton, and his stance is hypocritical given he's spent the last decade whispering in ears to get Hird back into CheatsFC. So I gather Flubbo must think Hird is without moral compass or principles!
If the comments from SOS are accurate, then it proves SOS has made it all about himself when the moment was in fact all about his son!
Robbo's article is ill-informed, opportunistic and typical HUN clickbait nonsense.
Robbo's article is ill-informed, opportunistic and typical HUN clickbait nonsense.
Flubbo's article is an example of the sort of poor media commentary that develops into very severe cases of PCN(Post Career Narcissism).
The only thing I know for certain, is that as has been already mentioned in this thread, Serge would have given SOS a good clip.
It doesn't matter whether you hate the club, it's officials, it's players, it colour, it's smell or it's styling, supporting your son on a once in a lifetime moment is rule number 1, and SOS is not silly so he's going to have massive regrets about what transpired!
Robbo thoughts
As someone famous said, if you don’t have principles, what have you got?
Robbo's thoughts and principles; now there's an oxymoron ::)
Robbo's thoughts and principles; now there's an oxymoron ::)
Nope! Just a MORON! ::)
The coaches' votes :
10 Daniel Rioli (RICH)
6 Lewis Young (CARL)
4 Dion Prestia (RICH)
4 Toby Nankervis (RICH)
3 Tim Taranto (RICH)
3 George Hewett (CARL)