Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on July 08, 2023, 09:47:03 am

Title: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: crashlander on July 08, 2023, 09:47:03 am
Not on free to air TV. That is a pain. And the timing is not good for me. Hope our ruckless side can respond.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: crashlander on July 09, 2023, 04:43:26 pm
We're on. Two minutes and no scores as yet.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 04:47:45 pm
Harry leading to the wrong side. Even if he marks it he will miss.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 04:51:27 pm
Darcy has 9 hit outs already lol
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: WASurfer on July 09, 2023, 04:55:33 pm
Darcy will go close to a record number of hitouts today.....but if we can rove to him and win the clearances it might nullify his dominance.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 04:58:42 pm
Young just needs to keep taking marks around the ground
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: WASurfer on July 09, 2023, 05:00:21 pm
Dominating inside 50's and uncontested possessions....just need to make it count on the scoreboard.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 05:01:06 pm
Jack's shins are sore
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 05:03:43 pm
Good start. Keep it up boys.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 05:12:50 pm
Kept them to a goal less 1st quarter. 4 goals up with no rucks. You have to be happy with that start.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 05:14:39 pm
Kept them to a goal less 1st quarter. 4 goals up with no rucks. You have to be happy with that start.

Perhaps Jack and Young are our best combo lol.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: WASurfer on July 09, 2023, 05:15:43 pm
And nullifying all of their dangerous forwards too at this stage. Lots of their blokes have hardly touched it.....same again in the second please boys.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 05:20:41 pm
Perhaps Jack and Young are our best combo lol.

We could have inadvertently started a new fashion in AFL footy.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 05:28:04 pm
Darcy has 9 hit outs already lol

How many are finding teammates with enough time to actually get rid of it?
Not many.

Just compete with him. Let him get a million hitouts. If only 20 find a teammate, you'd take that given the disparity in ruck talent.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 05:36:57 pm
Silvagni, fogarty, Martin great pressure there
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 05:37:12 pm
How many are finding teammates with enough time to actually get rid of it?
Not many.

Just compete with him. Let him get a million hitouts. If only 20 find a teammate, you'd take that given the disparity in ruck talent.

Yep Pitt is out
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 05:40:04 pm
Both teams are really missing easy chances.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 05:49:39 pm
Freo certainly lifted in that quarter, but we still have the same 4 goal lead. Keep going lads.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 05:50:17 pm
Yep Pitt is out

Keep digging.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: townsendcalling on July 09, 2023, 05:52:37 pm
Martin is fumbling too many chances. Needs to be clean.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 05:53:27 pm
Freo certainly lifted in that quarter, but we still have the same 4 goal lead. Keep going lads.

Weathered the storm well.

IF we can continue to absorb, when the opposition is pushing, then the moment they let up we can go bang bang bang.

Similar to what we did against Gold Coast a few weeks ago. Tough first quarter. Dominated the 2nd quarter.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 09, 2023, 05:53:46 pm
Good start, ruck difference isn't hurting and our mids have done well.
Want to win this one, not a fan of sulky Longmuir and I think our better key forwards are the difference.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: townsendcalling on July 09, 2023, 05:54:34 pm
Plenty of second half upside.  Cunningham, Cerra, Fogarty, Martin, Cottrell all have more to give.  Back line rock solid.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: rocky on July 09, 2023, 05:56:24 pm
Not a bad 1st half. We look to be the better team but are squandering some chances to put them away. Walsh is killing it at the moment. Plenty of blokes who can improve. Kemp started well but has had a couple of shocking efforts. Small forwards not doing enough. Midfield solid. Need to really pile it on this half.
Go blues
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: rocky on July 09, 2023, 05:57:29 pm
Oh, and if your watching the game I never realised how biased Pavlich was. Talk about one-eyed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:02:01 pm
36 hitouts to Darcy
4 to Young.

23 clearances each.

Now if that doesn't tell you how unimportant the hitouts stat is, i don't know what does.
What we need, and they never show it enough, usually until after the game, is the hitouts to advantage stat.

I'd suggest that if Darcy manages anything under 20, then he has failed.
He averages about 11.
He has a RC-HTA% of about 16% usually.

Usually you get about 80 ruck contests.
So from 100 ruck contests, he should get 16 hitouts to advantage against your average opposition.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: WASurfer on July 09, 2023, 06:02:36 pm
Kennedy's shot would've been a handy goal but Freo missed a couple of easy ones too.....Karma for Schultz because that ball travelled about 9 metres.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: shawny on July 09, 2023, 06:04:34 pm
Weitering is backing himself in and has confidence back.
Midfield looks so much better with a match fit Walsh. Cerra has become an A grader.
I’m confident we get this done. Have bigger weapons on all lines.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: shawny on July 09, 2023, 06:08:55 pm
36 hitouts to Darcy
4 to Young.

23 clearances each.

Now if that doesn't tell you how unimportant the hitouts stat is, i don't know what does.
What we need, and they never show it enough, usually until after the game, is the hitouts to advantage stat.

I'd suggest that if Darcy manages anything under 20, then he has failed.
He averages about 11.
He has a RC-HTA% of about 16% usually.

Usually you get about 80 ruck contests.
So from 100 ruck contests, he should get 16 hitouts to advantage against your average opposition.


Yawn feast. You have your opinion others have theirs. any chance you could  move on
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:09:55 pm
Yawn feast. You have your opinion others have theirs. any chance you could  move on
Who started this conversation?
Perhaps this should be directed at them?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 06:10:01 pm
Keep digging.

I'm on your side now. Rucks don't matter.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:10:31 pm
I'm on your side now. Rucks don't matter.
Close.

Hitouts don't matter.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 06:15:26 pm
Peppering the goals but no joy. I reckon all clubs would give 4 1st rounders for the AFL version of Ian Rush, someone who doesn't miss.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 06:16:43 pm
Close.

Hitouts don't matter.

Yep.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 06:18:16 pm
Great goals by Fogarty and McGovern. McGovern's first for the year apparently. Great work by Jack Martin.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:18:25 pm
ANyone questioning Martins hardness. Thats 2 weeks in a row.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 06:19:31 pm
Nice work Cerra. 44 points up.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 06:19:35 pm
Jack Martin and Fogarty showing mature age pressure.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:19:36 pm
Yep.
Only hitouts to advantage.

WHat you are saying is akin to saying
'Shots on goal is important'
WHat i am saying is
'Shots that go through for goals are actually whats important'

Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 06:22:16 pm
The premiership quarter is back, at least for this week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 06:22:38 pm
Come on!!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 06:22:52 pm
Great pressure throughout by the boys.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:28:24 pm
Kennedy Knee.

Time to bring on George.

Hopefully its not too bad.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 06:32:43 pm
Kennedy Knee.

Time to bring on George.

Hopefully its not too bad.

Didn't look good
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: shawny on July 09, 2023, 06:35:05 pm
Most pressure applied I have seen from this list. It’s relentless.

Jacks best game I’ve seen him play.  Be surprised if he doesn’t get coaches votes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 06:38:43 pm
Harry's 200th goal. Well done young man.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:39:34 pm
Earlier today there was talk about us needing to make 10-15 cuts to our list.

Wonder if those same people are thinking the same now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:44:47 pm
Quote from Pav.
"He's on track for the most hitouts in a game, Sean Darcy, but it hasn't been to advantage or it hasn't advantaged the Dockers."

Couldn't have said it better myself Pav.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: townsendcalling on July 09, 2023, 06:47:42 pm
Looking for 10+ possessions from George H in this last quarter, pace out of it and he's fresh.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 09, 2023, 06:48:07 pm
Who are the 23 out there and what have you done with Carlton?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Thryleon on July 09, 2023, 06:50:29 pm
Quote from Pav.
"He's on track for the most hitouts in a game, Sean Darcy, but it hasn't been to advantage or it hasn't advantaged the Dockers."

Couldn't have said it better myself Pav.

There are a few schools of thought here.

1. Our midfield dominance makes a ruckman's work (my contention) look good or bad.

2.  Hitouts don't matter (I dont think this is the case, but they don't matter if your midfield is incapable of capitalising on it).

3. It's difficult to measure ruckman capability based purely on what we see on game day (this is true).

What we are currently seeing is that the ruck conversation at our footy club is shaped as much by the performance of our midfielders as it is the person contesting the ruck, and ergo its hard to draw meaningful data about our rucks as a result based on what our games dish up.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 06:51:58 pm
Hit outs don't matter. Pittonet is more useless than I thought.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 06:52:30 pm
Speed is the difference now
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 06:57:31 pm
There are a few schools of thought here.

1. Our midfield dominance makes a ruckman's work (my contention) look good or bad.

2.  Hitouts don't matter (I dont think this is the case, but they don't matter if your midfield is incapable of capitalising on it).

3. It's difficult to measure ruckman capability based purely on what we see on game day (this is true).

What we are currently seeing is that the ruck conversation at our footy club is shaped as much by the performance of our midfielders as it is the person contesting the ruck, and ergo its hard to draw meaningful data about our rucks as a result based on what our games dish up.

1. In part, yes.

2. Yes and no. Hitouts themselves don't matter. Hitouts to advantage matter. Who cares who touches the ball first. It only matter if you can touch it and get it to your teammates.

3. There are 2 parts of the ruck conversation.
a) Ruck contests - Hitouts/Hitouts to advantage
b) Work around the ground that is not in ruck contests.

My contention has been that If you have a ruck who is good at 'a', then your backup needs to be good at 'b' because there is limited influence the 2nd ruck can have on 'a'. As long as your backup ruck can neutralise 'a', and make a influence with 'b'.

We are seeing all of the above today.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on July 09, 2023, 07:03:22 pm
Young has done ok today. Don't care what Kruddler's phantom HTA stats say.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 07:13:54 pm
Darcy 20 hitouts to advantage with 4 minutes to go.
I said that would be the minimum he'd need, and he's done the bare minimum.
Clearly, hasn't helped hid mids too much in the process.

Just like last week vs the Hawks.
Our rucks were dominated 'hitouts wise' but essentially won the contest because we neutralised a significant advantage and beat them around the ground.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on July 09, 2023, 07:18:31 pm
3 wins in a row. 3 games where we cracked or come close to the ton, 3 games won by basically 10 goals. Let’s enjoy this purple patch before the storm clouds (once again) start darkening the horizon.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on July 09, 2023, 07:22:35 pm
3 wins in a row. 3 games where we cracked or come close to the ton, 3 games won by basically 10 goals. Let’s enjoy this purple patch before the storm clouds (once again) start darkening the horizon.

For the rest of the year, we play 3 of the top 4 (PA, Coll, Melb), but the other 4 games are winnable, with only St. Kilda currently in the 8 from that 4 (GWS, GC, WC)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 09, 2023, 07:23:35 pm
Shame about Chugga, thought he was mighty today. Saying ACL which is not good.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 17 2023 In Game Angst Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Baggers on July 09, 2023, 07:57:47 pm
Gaining more confidence as the 'hunters;' the pressure initiators. Great win, Bluebaggers.