I'm calling this one now and it's only halftime.
Them : 10.6 - 66
Us : 3.4 - 22
The only way we are going to win this is to bring on Teddy Hopkins.
We have to kick 8 goals to nil in the second half to win it when we have only managed three in the first.
Be great to have serious egg on my face but it's hard to see where a spark is going to come from when there is no passion, no desperation and no resistance. Skills are poor, no teamwork and really lacking in wanting to play for each other.
The lack of pride in the jumper disturbs me greatly.
It's all very sad, embarrassing and downright unacceptable.
Sheik, egg on your face or not, you are spot on with everything you have posted. We are bottoming out tonight. The worst and most boring effort I can remember watching up to half time. It couldn't get any worse, could it ?
We're dead set certainties to win now.
Way to go Sheik :D
Taking one for the team ;)
We're dead set certainties to win now.
Way to go Sheik :D
Taking one for the team ;)
I'd be more than happy to fall on my sword if it meant we watched one of our best ever comebacks. Feel pretty safe at the moment though.
when it was rumoured that MM told the board our list is sh1te
I wanted to know what the board said
Looks like im getting the answer now
"TANK"
We're dead set certainties to win now.
Way to go Sheik :D
Taking one for the team ;)
I'd be more than happy to fall on my sword if it meant we watched one of our best ever comebacks. Feel pretty safe at the moment though.
(I reckon you're pretty safe too.
:()
We live in hope though.
There's no tank. The coach has well and truly lost the players.
There's no tank. The coach has well and truly lost the players.
I'll respond to that assertion with another one - we are definitely rebuilding. ;)
This is worse than the Bumbers game that cost Ratten his job!
This is worse than the Bumbers game that cost Ratten his job!
We were two down 10 minutes into that game and in front at half time. We ran out of legs. This is just a no show.
Sticks, Mick and Murphy to all stand down imo.
I see Carrazzo addressed the boys at 3/4 time whilst Murphy took a step back.
Murphy is not and will NEVER be a leader
Do the players even now what the game play is? Is there a game plan?
I see Carrazzo addressed the boys at 3/4 time whilst Murphy took a step back.
Fat lot of good that did.
There's no tank. The coach has well and truly lost the players.
I'll respond to that assertion with another one - we are definitely rebuilding. ;)
We won a final last year.
The old fool moves Jamo up forward.
Is there a game plan?
No.
Malthouse was done at Collingwood, he tens times done now!
The old fool moves Jamo up forward.
He's kicked a goal before!
The old fool moves Jamo up forward.
Remember when Ratts did that.
I reckon it was about the time we all new he was gawn.
Lets hope it happens here.
There's no tank. The coach has well and truly lost the players.
I'll respond to that assertion with another one - we are definitely rebuilding. ;)
We won a final last year.
So what?
Is malthouse contracted for 2015? He's not cause but certainly cant escape blame for this shambles. I dont think changing coach again is going to help much. Supporting Carlton is a never ending heartbreak.
There's no tank. The coach has well and truly lost the players.
I'll respond to that assertion with another one - we are definitely rebuilding. ;)
We won a final last year.
So what?
Teams that need rebuilds generally don't win finals the previous year.
Is there a game plan?
No.
Malthouse was done at Collingwood, he tens times done now!
The players have killed another coach.
Garlett needs to be dropped. Just not interested. Gone off his football big time.
Is there a game plan?
No.
Malthouse was done at Collingwood, he tens times done now!
The players have killed another coach.
Getting sick of hearing that. Players follow instructions either the instructions are not clear or make no sense. Also doesn't help when your coach tells you you can't play.
I'm over the Mick experiment. Horrible decision by the board.
Is malthouse contracted for 2015? He's not cause but certainly cant escape blame for this shambles. I dont think changing coach again is going to help much. Supporting Carlton is a never ending heartbreak.
Right on. Some would rejoice if he was sacked but after he goes the rotten core remains in terms of culture and an ordinary list.
Is he contracted next week?
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
I couldn't go.
Did we win?
Heads have to roll now, we can't cop that sort of pasting and not react to it.
Cripps, Giles, Holman and Graham all have to play from now along with Menzel & Buckley. Leave them in the team for the whole season, they can't do any worse than some of the imposters out there tonight who have just served up an 81-point drubbing.
The club needs to review Malthouse too, this is pretty much the same nucleus of players Ratten got to the finals. Why is this team playing worse now under Malthouse ?? He has brought in some solid recruits and trimmed off the deadwood so if we are honest, overall it is better than what Ratts had.
Additionally, the two areas that we keep getting killed in is the ruck and the key forward posts. We have not addressed the forward area since Kernahan retired and we have had plenty of rucks at the club yet we keep bringing in those who are second-stringers at best (Warnock & Wood).
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
Yep...couldnt agree more and it will be a 3-5 year turn around when you are starting from rock bottom...
No game plan.
No leadership.
No heart.
No skill.
No idea.
Pagan era x2.
Coach "thinks" he is Vince Lombardi.
Either Menzel or Buckley to be made captain.
Thank God I have a new job and Liverpool to keep me entertained.
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
There no way you can let MM off the hook.
He's turned a middle of the road list to crap.
Why would you give home great payers?
Warnock getting beaten Carlisle in the ruck clearly shows he is not AFL worthy.
Rowe is a waste of space, White gets scared in the headlights.
Our tackling is virtually non-existent too.
watching foxtel - is this a pi$$ take?
watching foxtel - is this a pi$$ take?
I know, I just turned it off.
Warnock getting beaten Carlisle in the ruck clearly shows he is not AFL worthy.
Rowe is a waste of space, White gets scared in the headlights.
Our tackling is virtually non-existent too.
Our tackling was terrible under Ratten and MM has done sweet FA to improve that part of our game. Our kicking was also terrible under Ratts and MM again has done nothing to improve that skill set. Both the. Bummers and the Hawks are playing great football because they have players who can kicks. Ours can't.
The funny thing is the scum only started the game in third gear, got 7 goals up and then cruised through the rest of the game in second gear. The performance was down up there with the infamous round 22 loss to the Kangas in 2003.
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
There no way you can let MM off the hook.
He's turned a middle of the road list to crap.
Why would you give home great payers?
I'm not letting him off the hook. Has been a major disappointment.
watching foxtel - is this a pi$$ take?
I know, I just turned it off.
too bad we cant do heart , brain and balls transplants
The funny thing is the scum only started the game in third gear, got 7 goals up and then cruised through the rest of the game in second gear. The performance down up there with the infamous round 22 loss to the Kangas in 2003.
Agreed. Also reminded me of that loss against the Saints when Fev started down back on Gehrig.
Warnock getting beaten Carlisle in the ruck clearly shows he is not AFL worthy.
Rowe is a waste of space, White gets scared in the headlights.
Our tackling is virtually non-existent too.
Our tackling was terrible under Ratten and MM has done sweet FA to improve that part of our game. Our kicking was also terrible under Ratts and MM again has done nothing to improve that skill set. Both the. Bummers and the Hawks are playing great football because they have players who can kicks. Ours can't.
It's very hard to deliver the ball cleanly when you're hugging the boundary. There's no space to kick the ball into and it's very one dimensional in terms of options available.
The funny thing is the scum only started the game in third gear, got 7 goals up and then cruised through the rest of the game in second gear. The performance down up there with the infamous round 22 loss to the Kangas in 2003.
Agreed. Also reminded me of that loss against the Saints when Fev started down back on Gehrig.
Ooh yeah all the pleasant memories come flooding back. :-\
Heads have to roll now, we can't cop that sort of pasting and not react to it.
Cripps, Giles, Holman and Graham all have to play from now along with Menzel & Buckley. Leave them in the team for the whole season, they can't do any worse than some of the imposters out there tonight who have just served up an 81-point drubbing.
The club needs to review Malthouse too, this is pretty much the same nucleus of players Ratten got to the finals. Why is this team playing worse now under Malthouse ?? He has brought in some solid recruits and trimmed off the deadwood so if we are honest, overall it is better than what Ratts had.
Additionally, the two areas that we keep getting killed in is the ruck and the key forward posts. We have not addressed the forward area since Kernahan retired and we have had plenty of rucks at the club yet we keep bringing in those who are second-stringers at best (Warnock & Wood).
That's all fine, but name your team from the back line.
I seriously hope we don't play the kids.
Imagine being exposed to the game style if this stupid old man .
It could ruin some handy players.
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
Yep...couldnt agree more and it will be a 3-5 year turn around when you are starting from rock bottom...
Port were able to turn it around quite quickly. That's what we have to hope for
Ok, seems for one final time the lesson has been learnt. Once coaches start pushing 60 they can't keep up with the game anymore. Malthouse, Sheedy, Matthews etc.... were great coaches, could re-invent themselves many times but as they get to a certain point in time of life they can't change, keep up or adjust to the list they have. Quite a few times MM has chucked the game plan out the window at half time only to turn things around. If only he'd learn from that and do it every week from the start. Like it was only recent he won a flag, just missed a second time and making Buckley look 2nd rate at Collingwood. Why do we get them when they're past it.
Anyway, time to use Cripps, Giles, Graham, Holman as well as continuing with Buckley, Menzel etc..Nearly all a physically strong enough to play seniors. Being young they might be inconsistent, get tired as the season goes but it's often surprising how it often freshens a list and give it some life. Can give them a break in the twos occasionally if they need a rest.
watching foxtel - is this a pi$$ take?
I know, I just turned it off.
too bad we cant do heart , brain and balls transplants
Ha
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
Yep...couldnt agree more and it will be a 3-5 year turn around when you are starting from rock bottom...
Port were able to turn it around quite quickly. That's what we have to hope for
It's amazing what a difference a great coach makes.
There's a bloke taking 100 contested marks in the 2s (Casboult), two ball magnets (Graham and Cripps), a developing CHB (Giles) and an experienced HB (Scotland) - we need to make some changes and let's just see what happens. Menzel was one of few showing some intensity.
That's all fine, but name your team from the back line.
Start by naming the coach?
I seriously hope we don't play the kids.
Imagine being exposed to the game style if this stupid old man .
It could ruin some handy players.
100% agree with this. Gibbs came to Carlton as the best attacking midfielder in the land and Pago turned him into a back pocket
Ok, seems for one final time the lesson has been learnt. Once coaches start pushing 60 they can't keep up with the game anymore. Malthouse, Sheedy, Matthews etc.... were great coaches, could re-invent themselves many times but as they get to a certain point in time of life they can't change, keep up or adjust to the list they have. Quite a few times MM has chucked the game plan out the window at half time only to turn things around. If only he'd learn from that and do it every week from the start. Like it was only recent he won a flag, just missed a second time and making Buckley look 2nd rate at Collingwood. Why do we get them when they're past it.
Anyway, time to use Cripps, Giles, Graham, Holman as well as continuing with Buckley, Menzel etc..Nearly all a physically strong enough to play seniors. Being young they might be inconsistent, get tired as the season goes but it's often surprising how it often freshens a list and give it some life. Can give them a break in the twos occasionally if they need a rest.
Agreed
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
Yep...couldnt agree more and it will be a 3-5 year turn around when you are starting from rock bottom...
Port were able to turn it around quite quickly. That's what we have to hope for
It's amazing what a difference a great coach makes.
Especially when he's got some half decent players at his disposal.
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
Yep...couldnt agree more and it will be a 3-5 year turn around when you are starting from rock bottom...
Port were able to turn it around quite quickly. That's what we have to hope for
It's amazing what a difference a great coach makes.
Maybe we should give Guus Hiddink a call
Ok, seems for one final time the lesson has been learnt. Once coaches start pushing 60 they can't keep up with the game anymore. Malthouse, Sheedy, Matthews etc.... were great coaches, could re-invent themselves many times but as they get to a certain point in time of life they can't change, keep up or adjust to the list they have. Quite a few times MM has chucked the game plan out the window at half time only to turn things around. If only he'd learn from that and do it every week from the start. Like it was only recent he won a flag, just missed a second time and making Buckley look 2nd rate at Collingwood. Why do we get them when they're past it.
Anyway, time to use Cripps, Giles, Graham, Holman as well as continuing with Buckley, Menzel etc..Nearly all a physically strong enough to play seniors. Being young they might be inconsistent, get tired as the season goes but it's often surprising how it often freshens a list and give it some life. Can give them a break in the twos occasionally if they need a rest.
Agreed
Save the kids.
Keep them away from this monster!
I seriously hope we don't play the kids.
Imagine being exposed to the game style if this stupid old man .
It could ruin some handy players.
100% agree with this. Gibbs came to Carlton as the best attacking midfielder in the land and Pago turned him into a back pocket
Let him go back and with the $$$$$ we save try to talk James Frawley over.
Ok, seems for one final time the lesson has been learnt. Once coaches start pushing 60 they can't keep up with the game anymore. Malthouse, Sheedy, Matthews etc.... were great coaches, could re-invent themselves many times but as they get to a certain point in time of life they can't change, keep up or adjust to the list they have. Quite a few times MM has chucked the game plan out the window at half time only to turn things around. If only he'd learn from that and do it every week from the start. Like it was only recent he won a flag, just missed a second time and making Buckley look 2nd rate at Collingwood. Why do we get them when they're past it.
Anyway, time to use Cripps, Giles, Graham, Holman as well as continuing with Buckley, Menzel etc..Nearly all a physically strong enough to play seniors. Being young they might be inconsistent, get tired as the season goes but it's often surprising how it often freshens a list and give it some life. Can give them a break in the twos occasionally if they need a rest.
This^^^^^
Agreed
Save the kids.
Keep them away from this monster!
I'm neither for or against MM as coach. The fact is he is the coach and yet the same deadcrape players we have keep putting in the same lame performances. The players should take the bulk of the blame for this game.
How the f**k could we have thumped this mob by 98 odd pts 3 years ago and then simply watched them go past us?
What the fk has happened to our disposal ???? We were never great by either hand or foot but FFS, tonight was diabolical!
Whats so special about Carrazzo that he gets a gig in the 1st's after so long out of the game? His touch was simply f..ing awful and it isnt any wonder either.
Touhy needs a spell. Curnow needs a spell. Rowe was better this week but that wasnt that hard really!. get casboult in there FFS. Waite did 3/5ths of feck all and Garlett.......you can feck off too.
Jesus, if we dropped the players who deserved it to night, we'd almost have a new 22 next week.
I barrick for our jumper. Very few who wore it tonight deserved that honor.
We are rotten and dead in the middle.
The backs fight against a continual flow of pressure free ball coming through the middle.
The forwards hardly get the ball coming in lace out.
Our midfield is next to useless, filled with soft, heartless, soulless imposters.
We are still the same one way lazy river.
With dead branches, the ilk of : Warnock Kreuzer Murphy Walker Robinson Curnow Gibbs Garlett Ellard Carrazzo floating aimlessly downstream.
One hundred and fifty years !!!! WOW the last dozen have been dreadful and embarrassing looking back and it won't get any easier. We have set a rod for our own back, due to our method of constantly making bad choices on and off the field.
We are Carlton.... and we are FARKED !!
I'm neither for or against MM as coach. The fact is he is the coach and yet the same deadcrape players we have keep putting in the same lame performances. The players should take the bulk of the blame for this game.
How the f**k could we have thumped this mob by 98 odd pts 3 years ago and then simply watched them go past us?
Look no further than the bloke mentioned in your first paragraph.
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
Yep...couldnt agree more and it will be a 3-5 year turn around when you are starting from rock bottom...
Port were able to turn it around quite quickly. That's what we have to hope for
It's amazing what a difference a great coach makes.
Adelaide were saying that about Sanderson too.
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
Is he contracted next week?
The real culprit is Hughes. Our recruitment has been dreadful. Watson. Lucas. Two wasted first round draft picks. And them there's the Marcus Davies of this world. And then there's the recycled players who have been rubbish for us like Robbie the Robot. It's been a train wreck for a number of years.
Yep...couldnt agree more and it will be a 3-5 year turn around when you are starting from rock bottom...
Port were able to turn it around quite quickly. That's what we have to hope for
It's amazing what a difference a great coach makes.
Adelaide were saying that about Sanderson too.
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
trouble is, they got a flogging for the last 2
tonight is how they respond
We are rotten and dead in the middle.
The backs fight against a continual flow of pressure free ball coming through the middle.
The forwards hardly get the ball coming in lace out.
Our midfield is next to useless, filled with soft, heartless, soulless imposters.
We are still the same one way lazy river.
With dead branches, the ilk of : Warnock Kreuzer Murphy Walker Robinson Curnow Gibbs Garlett Ellard Carrazzo floating aimlessly downstream.
One hundred and fifty years !!!! WOW the last dozen have been dreadful and embarrassing looking back and it won't get any easier. We have set a rod for our own back, due to our method of constantly making bad choices on and off the field.
We are Carlton.... and we are FARKED !!
Spot on.
@BigJack
You are right, the midfield is our rotten core. Just not up to the job and needs clearing out. Just does not have the skills needed for today's footy, and it's not very smart. Very exposed tonight and was a complete embarrassment with its blundering and turnovers.
In a post before the season began, I said that I was there in 1964 when we celebrated our 100th anniversary. I was 15 at the time and didn't miss a game.
We had our worst year ever finishing tenth.
I said in my post that I hope history doesn't repeat itself.
I'm not going to say any more because I feel physically ill having watched that cr@p tonight, except to say that I did take one positive out of the game.
I am positive that this year, history is going to repeat itself >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
@BigJack
You are right, the midfield is our rotten core. Just not up to the job and needs clearing out. Just does not have the skills needed for today's footy, and it's not very smart. Very exposed tonight and was a complete embarrassment with its blundering and turnovers.
x2....not hard enough and skills are woeful.....
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
It's up to the coach to inspire the players, our team did not show up at any stage to play. Against Essendon. I cannot remember a more insipid effort against the scum. It's obvious the coach has lost the players.
I'm neither for or against MM as coach. The fact is he is the coach and yet the same deadcrape players we have keep putting in the same lame performances. The players should take the bulk of the blame for this game.
How the f**k could we have thumped this mob by 98 odd pts 3 years ago and then simply watched them go past us?
What the fk has happened to our disposal ???? We were never great by either hand or foot but FFS, tonight was diabolical!
Whats so special about Carrazzo that he gets a gig in the 1st's after so long out of the game? His touch was simply f..ing awful and it isnt any wonder either.
Touhy needs a spell. Curnow needs a spell. Rowe was better this week but that wasnt that hard really!. get casboult in there FFS. Waite did 3/5ths of feck all and Garlett.......you can feck off too.
Jesus, if we dropped the players who deserved it to night, we'd almost have a new 22 next week.
I barrick for our jumper. Very few who wore it tonight deserved that honor.
It's hard to believe how many players are underdone or out of form. Off the top of my head of our better players.....walker, waite, Thomas, tuohy, Garlett, Henderson, Carazzo are all badly out of form, and when you add guys who simply aint up to it like Rowe and White, we'll that's half the side.
I'm neither for or against MM as coach. The fact is he is the coach and yet the same deadcrape players we have keep putting in the same lame performances. The players should take the bulk of the blame for this game.
How the f**k could we have thumped this mob by 98 odd pts 3 years ago and then simply watched them go past us?
Look no further than the bloke mentioned in your first paragraph.
BJ raises a very good point re how can cheats.com.au waltz past us, and many other clubs have too. It is just too simplistic to hang this all on the senior coach alone... there are endemic issues in coaching, development and recruiting which have been eroding the place for year and tonight cheats.com.au did us a favour and showed the world how far we are from being a finals side, let alone a top 4 side. If it was only the senior coach then you just replace him and everything is hunky dory. Nuh. MM has kept too many of the 'old' coaching staff on. And he really must now ask himself if he has the energy to do what must be done. We're not far from tear it all down and start again.
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
It's up to the coach to inspire the players, our team did not show up at any stage to play. Against Essendon. I cannot remember a more insipid effort against the scum. It's obvious the coach has lost the players.
Not sure that's obvious.
In a post before the season began, I said that I was there in 1964 when we celebrated our 100th anniversary. I was 15 at the time and didn't miss a game.
We had our worst year ever finishing tenth.
I said in my post that I hope history doesn't repeat itself.
I'm not going to say any more because I feel physically ill having watched that cr@p tonight, except to say that I did take one positive out of the game.
I am positive that this year, history is going to repeat itself >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Doing the maths I think this means you're old.....lol!
Sadly I remember 1964 too. Was after that we got Harris, who, in turn, got Barassi, cleaned a few out, played alot of young blokes and we won a flag 4 years later starting some golden era. I'd kill for that luck to happen again.
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
It's up to the coach to inspire the players, our team did not show up at any stage to play. Against Essendon. I cannot remember a more insipid effort against the scum. It's obvious the coach has lost the players.
Not sure that's obvious.
Did you see the game?
I'm neither for or against MM as coach. The fact is he is the coach and yet the same deadcrape players we have keep putting in the same lame performances. The players should take the bulk of the blame for this game.
How the f**k could we have thumped this mob by 98 odd pts 3 years ago and then simply watched them go past us?
Look no further than the bloke mentioned in your first paragraph.
BJ raises a very good point re how can cheats.com.au waltz past us, and many other clubs have too. It is just too simplistic to hang this all on the senior coach alone... there are endemic issues in coaching, development and recruiting which have been eroding the place for year and tonight cheats.com.au did us a favour and showed the world how far we are from being a finals side, let alone a top 4 side. If it was only the senior coach then you just replace him and everything is hunky dory. Nuh. MM has kept too many of the 'old' coaching staff on. And he really must now ask himself if he has the energy to do what must be done. We're not far from tear it all down and start again.
The coach is not the be all and end all but he has to be held accountable for performances like that. Coming off 2 losses with a season defining type of match and we didn't turn up mentally. Not one or two but everyone. Something is seriously wrong and it wasn't that wrong before Malthouse got here.
@BigJack
You are right, the midfield is our rotten core. Just not up to the job and needs clearing out. Just does not have the skills needed for today's footy, and it's not very smart. Very exposed tonight and was a complete embarrassment with its blundering and turnovers.
Midfield is were it the sh1t flows from.
We have not enough with heart / toughness / determination / skill to take the game on. (Well except Judd, but he is on the wrong side of 30).
Tonight too many stood flat footed, not enough are skilled enough to keep the footy , not enough applied pressure for 5 minutes let alone four quarters , no one was willing take the game by the scruff and give it good old shake, the ruck stocks seriously look seriously stupid.
I look at the competition and I am gob smacked by our ability to still draft one way skirts.
Melbourne will give themselves a chance next week, as I reckon we'd just be able to roll Peel Thunder right now ..
@BigJack
You are right, the midfield is our rotten core. Just not up to the job and needs clearing out. Just does not have the skills needed for today's footy, and it's not very smart. Very exposed tonight and was a complete embarrassment with its blundering and turnovers.
Midfield is were it the sh1t flows from.
We have not enough with heart / toughness / determination / skill to take the game on. (Well except Judd, but he is on the wrong side of 30).
Tonight too many stood flat footed, not enough are skilled enough to keep the footy , not enough applied pressure for 5 minutes let alone four quarters , no one was willing take the game by the scruff and give it good old shake, the ruck stocks seriously look seriously stupid.
I look at the competition and I am gob smacked by our ability to still draft one way skirts.
Melbourne will give themselves a chance next week, as I reckon we'd just be able to roll Peel Thunder right now ..
only 3 years ago we were touted as one of the best and fastest mid fields in the comp - seems like a nightmare atm
We are still the same one way lazy river.
With dead branches, the ilk of : Warnock Kreuzer Murphy Walker Robinson Curnow Gibbs Garlett Ellard Carrazzo floating aimlessly downstream.
First game back and got 11 clearances, twice as many as anyone from either side.
Did anyone watch the Dogs go past us yesterday. They did!!
I don't think it's a list issue.
This is essentially the same group that contested finals in recent years.
Even allowing for the fact other teams might go past them it doesn't make them lesser footballers than they were in finals years.
There was a very brief point in this game where we more than matched them.
Same happened in the first two games.
When the team is on they can do the job.
A few of our players are suffering from injury interrupted pre-seasons and some are just dreadfully out of form but......
They look disinterested and unmotivated for long periods, yet they can turn on a good period for ten minutes or so and look great.
Skills and decision making are terrible at times, yet at other times they do the freakish.
Bruce said it.....when they're good, they're very good (irresistible).....when they're bad they're pathetic.
....and that makes it largely an application issue.
and the folk responsible for that side of things are the coaching group.
Ok, seems for one final time the lesson has been learnt. Once coaches start pushing 60 they can't keep up with the game anymore. Malthouse, Sheedy, Matthews etc....
They can with great assistants. We went with basically 3 coaches last year and then brought it people Mick wasn't paranoid about. Recipe for disaster.
Having Murphy as captain is like being led by Brave Sir Robyn...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8&feature=kp
Melbourne will give themselves a chance next week, as I reckon we'd just be able to roll Peel Thunder right now ..
Yep, as they say on here sometimes.....Danger Game.
Bruce said it.....when they're good, they're very good (irresistible).....when they're bad they're pathetic.
....and that makes it largely an application issue.
and the folk responsible for that side of things are the coaching group.
It' been happening for too long Lods. If MM is a quality coach he should have identified the problems and addressed them by now, yet he seems just as bewildered. Not good enough.
Just call me a visionary...
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=938.0
Simply appalling. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. I'm really starting to hate this club.
:(
It was just a matter of time. Maybe judd's busted body can win us some games this year.
Bruce said it.....when they're good, they're very good (irresistible).....when they're bad they're pathetic.
....and that makes it largely an application issue.
and the folk responsible for that side of things are the coaching group.
It' been happening for too long Lods. If MM is a quality coach he should have identified the problems and addressed them by now, yet he seems just as bewildered. Not good enough.
It'll be very telling as to how both MM and the players selected next week respond to this. However, even if we come out and belt the daylights out of the Dees, we could just as easily fall in a hole the game after.
Melbourne will give themselves a chance next week, as I reckon we'd just be able to roll Peel Thunder right now ..
Yep, as they say on here sometimes.....Danger Game.
For Melbourne......
I don't think it's a list issue.
This is essentially the same group that contested finals in recent years.
Even allowing for the fact other teams might go past them it doesn't make them lesser footballers than they were in finals years.
There was a very brief point in this game where we more than matched them.
Same happened in the first two games.
When the team is on they can do the job.
A few of our players are suffering from injury interrupted pre-seasons and some are just dreadfully out of form but......
They look disinterested and unmotivated for long periods, yet they can turn on a good period for ten minutes or so and look great.
Skills and decision making are terrible at times, yet at other times they do the freakish.
Bruce said it.....when they're good, they're very good (irresistible).....when they're bad they're pathetic.
....and that makes it largely an application issue.
and the folk responsible for that side of things are the coaching group.
Too true, but don't forget a coach doesn't make an athlete look good. A great athlete makes a coach look great. Its as though the coaching group can't get the best motivation to make the application work. Look at what Hird the Turd gets out of his group. Not due to fear, but due to respect. Maybe the squad hate and fear the coaching group. Maybe our list doesn't suit our coaching group, so there has to be an attitude change from both sides, or the 2 need to part ways. Some of our players and many to be exact are just chumps to be honest. Just look at the players that have moved on and what they have really produced at other clubs. We draft and pick 2nd class and watch them pull blinders from time to time. The ones we dump never really amount to much. The ones we keep never amount to much either. So there is another issue we have. We try to make champions from "C" class players with a small few "A" class players. Poor list, poor coaching group = crap results. We are just crap on every level.
Bruce said it.....when they're good, they're very good (irresistible).....when they're bad they're pathetic.
....and that makes it largely an application issue.
and the folk responsible for that side of things are the coaching group.
It' been happening for too long Lods. If MM is a quality coach he should have identified the problems and addressed them by now, yet he seems just as bewildered. Not good enough.
It'll be very telling as to how both MM and the players selected next week respond to this. However, even if we come out and belt the daylights out of the Dees, we could just as easily fall in a hole the game after.
More likely than not if we belt the Dees the players will think they are back in town. They won't be.
Melbourne will give themselves a chance next week, as I reckon we'd just be able to roll Peel Thunder right now ..
Yep, as they say on here sometimes.....Danger Game.
For Melbourne......
;D
@ Mantis
Definitely nail/head Mants.
The coach is not the be all and end all but he has to be held accountable for performances like that. Coming off 2 losses with a season defining type of match and we didn't turn up mentally. Not one or two but everyone. Something is seriously wrong and it wasn't that wrong before Malthouse got here.
We have always been this good .. We have the same prized cattle out there, difference is now is the opposition know how to roll us over !
Blame or sack the coachall you want, but there's an bigger underlying problem we need to deal with first and that is ..... THE CLUB !!
We have been folding as a club since Elliot refused to move forward. Collo took hold of the helm and he allowed us to be bent right over and royally cop a shafting. I don't think we have ever recovered mentally, we are scarred and all we have been doing over the past 12 years is applying band aids to a gaping wound.
I don't think it's a list issue.
This is essentially the same group that contested finals in recent years.
Even allowing for the fact other teams might go past them it doesn't make them lesser footballers than they were in finals years.
There was a very brief point in this game where we more than matched them.
Same happened in the first two games.
When the team is on they can do the job.
A few of our players are suffering from injury interrupted pre-seasons and some are just dreadfully out of form but......
They look disinterested and unmotivated for long periods, yet they can turn on a good period for ten minutes or so and look great.
Skills and decision making are terrible at times, yet at other times they do the freakish.
Bruce said it.....when they're good, they're very good (irresistible).....when they're bad they're pathetic.
....and that makes it largely an application issue.
and the folk responsible for that side of things are the coaching group.
Too true, but don't forget a coach doesn't make an athlete look good. A great athlete makes a coach look great. Its as though the coaching group can't get the best motivation to make the application work. Look at what Hird the Turd gets out of his group. Not due to fear, but due to respect. Maybe the squad hate and fear the coaching group. Maybe our list doesn't suit our coaching group, so there has to be an attitude change from both sides, or the 2 need to part ways. Some of our players and many to be exact are just chumps to be honest. Just look at the players that have moved on and what they have really produced at other clubs. We draft and pick 2nd class and watch them pull blinders from time to time. The ones we dump never really amount to much. The ones we keep never amount to much either. So there is another issue we have. We try to make champions from "C" class players with a small few "A" class players. Poor list, poor coaching group = crap results. We are just crap on every level.
Tail wagging the dog Green Stick me thinks?
The whole club needs an enema from the board down, it is so full of crap it isn't funny anymore.
When you fail to replace the last decent key position forward you've had for that long that the last one turns out to be the club president, then you have to face the facts that your recruiting policy has some serious flaws in it.
Bring back Ratts?.....and Fev? ;)
The whole club needs an enema from the board down, it is so full of crap it isn't funny anymore.
tell ya what would be funny -the old Richmond manure delivery lol
The options are:
1. Extraordinary Meeting now - 100 signatures - we need a ticket to be formed roll the entire Board
2. Ask the AFL to step in and appoint an independent person to clean the Board and Administration - some one like Jackson who went to Melbourne
3. I say 1 and 2, because we cannot trust the succession plan and the present Carlton Board personnel to make the right decisions. We know the Board is loaded with factions...probably 3 factions.
We are still the same one way lazy river.
With dead branches, the ilk of : Warnock Kreuzer Murphy Walker Robinson Curnow Gibbs Garlett Ellard Carrazzo floating aimlessly downstream.
First game back and got 11 clearances, twice as many as anyone from either side.
Don't be sticking up for Carrazzo if that's what you're trying to do.....so he should have gotten that many clearances with the utter domination of Warnock in the hitouts, but that doesn't make for up for his unacceptable performance. He was as woeful and as ineffective as the rest if them, lead by the weakest, softest, most uninspiring, de-motivating, unnatural captain in the AFL by none.
Too true, but don't forget a coach doesn't make an athlete look good. A great athlete makes a coach look great. Its as though the coaching group can't get the best motivation to make the application work. Look at what Hird the Turd gets out of his group. Not due to fear, but due to respect. Maybe the squad hate and fear the coaching group. Maybe our list doesn't suit our coaching group, so there has to be an attitude change from both sides, or the 2 need to part ways. Some of our players and many to be exact are just chumps to be honest. Just look at the players that have moved on and what they have really produced at other clubs. We draft and pick 2nd class and watch them pull blinders from time to time. The ones we dump never really amount to much. The ones we keep never amount to much either. So there is another issue we have. We try to make champions from "C" class players with a small few "A" class players. Poor list, poor coaching group = crap results. We are just crap on every level.
Fair enough....but a good coaching group should be able to turn some C's into B's and some B's into A's.
"Improvement" is what we should expect.
Now it's unrealistic to expect that every player on a list should improve year to year because other factors come into play (age, injury, preparation, loss of form)
But if a good majority of the list improves that should result in team improvements.
Is the "This group won't improve....let's go and get another lot" idea really acceptable.
The options are:
1. Extraordinary Meeting now - 100 signatures - we need a ticket to be formed roll the entire Board
2. Ask the AFL to step in and appoint an independent person to clean the Board and Administration - some one like Jackson who went to Melbourne
3. I say 1 and 2, because we cannot trust the succession plan and the present Carlton Board personnel to make the right decisions. We know the Board is loaded with factions...probably 3 factions.
If we are going to change things, it has to happen organically and from within, no handouts or charity.
The whole club needs an enema from the board down, it is so full of crap it isn't funny anymore.
Needed it from the day we got Judd. He was never the Messiah, but his influence on a group could have developed a culture amongst our youngsters that would have delivered glory.
We are still the same one way lazy river.
With dead branches, the ilk of : Warnock Kreuzer Murphy Walker Robinson Curnow Gibbs Garlett Ellard Carrazzo floating aimlessly downstream.
First game back and got 11 clearances, twice as many as anyone from either side.
Don't be sticking up for Carrazzo if that's what you're trying to do.....so he should have gotten that many clearances with the utter domination of Warnock in the hitouts, but that doesn't make for an acceptable performance. He was as woeful and as ineffective as the rest if them, lead by the weakest, softest, most uninspiring, de-motivating, unnatural captain in the AFL by none.
Spot on - no excuses.
The coach is not the be all and end all but he has to be held accountable for performances like that. Coming off 2 losses with a season defining type of match and we didn't turn up mentally. Not one or two but everyone. Something is seriously wrong and it wasn't that wrong before Malthouse got here.
We have always been this good .. We have the same prized cattle out there, difference is now is the opposition know how to roll us over !
Blame or sack the coachall you want, but there's an bigger underlying problem we need to deal with first and that is ..... THE CLUB !!
We have been folding as a club since Elliot refused to move forward. Collo took hold of the helm and he allowed us to be bent right over and royally cop a shafting. I don't think we have ever recovered mentally, we are scarred and all we have been doing over the past 12 years is applying band aids to a gaping wound.
As I remember it Big Jack, during the Elliot yrs we were feared and hated, Elliot stood up for the club and never let anyone second guess his thoughts. He was a leader who lead. I wish we had a LEADER at the club now with some BALLS to LEEEAAD.
Bloody Collo was an AFL puppy who had his own agenda and a massive conflict of interest, yes Elliot made some major blunders (just remember many other clubs were doing the same as us) but it was Collo who sold us to the AFL and we have been compliant little pussies ever since....just like our players.
The options are:
1. Extraordinary Meeting now - 100 signatures - we need a ticket to be formed roll the entire Board
2. Ask the AFL to step in and appoint an independent person to clean the Board and Administration - some one like Jackson who went to Melbourne
3. I say 1 and 2, because we cannot trust the succession plan and the present Carlton Board personnel to make the right decisions. We know the Board is loaded with factions...probably 3 factions.
If we are going to change things, it has to happen organically and from within, no handouts or charity.
You can still have an EGM to exit those dead wood directors - Sticks Pratt Lee Clarke Farouh Germinder & Gleeson
Don't be sticking up for Carrazzo if that's what you're trying to do.....so he should have gotten that many clearances with the utter domination of Warnock in the hitouts,
Dominance, are you fecking kidding me?
Warnock 41 hitouts, 62 ranking points.
Carlilse, 18 hit outs 102 ranking points.
When asked about the ruck BumberT laughed, he fecking laughed! :-[
When the numpty Riewoldt made his ruck summary, Matthews just shooked his head he did not know what to say! >:(
Don't be sticking up for Carrazzo if that's what you're trying to do.....so he should have gotten that many clearances with the utter domination of Warnock in the hitouts,
Dominance, are you fecking kidding me?
Warnock 41 hitouts, 62 ranking points.
Carlilse, 18 hit outs 102 ranking points.
When asked about the ruck BumberT laughed, he fecking laughed! :-[
The decision to play Carrozzo was a mates decision of incompetence - his first game in 18 months - no reserves warm up games. They got rid of McLean (should have played him) and Bell started on the bench who played last week
Absolute amateurs at Carlton - we were going to be destroyed in the centre.
Don't be sticking up for Carrazzo if that's what you're trying to do.....so he should have gotten that many clearances with the utter domination of Warnock in the hitouts,
Dominance, are you fecking kidding me?
Warnock 41 hitouts, 62 ranking points.
Carlilse, 18 hit outs 102 ranking points.
When asked about the ruck BumberT laughed, he fecking laughed! :-[
The decision to play Carrozzo was a mates decision of incompetence - his first game in 18 months - no reserves warm up games. They got rid of McLean (should have played him) and Bell started on the bench who played last week
Absolute amateurs at Carlton - we were going to be destroyed in the centre.
With the incompetence of the Match Committee and MM it makes you wonder how much of Collingwood's success is attributed to MM. He is totally ballsing things up here that it is like the Pies have planted him here to be a terrorist. By jingoes it is working. :o
Tonight's performance actually shocked me.....I knew we weren't travelling well, but none of us saw this coming. It's not an exaggeration in saying that the rot set in from the very first bounce and Essendon's very first clearance of the game.....it wasn't remotely contested and nothing changed from go to whoa. It was the most unaccountable football I've seen from ANY team that I can remember. In the 3rd quarter Essendon's kicked a goal from SEVEN consecutive UNcontested marks.....surely that has to be some kind of record?
For a group of players to look so disinterested, be so soft, so utterly inept as professional sportsman for an entire game.....there's gotta be something going on, there HAS to be.
For what it's worth, I've heard from a very good source not to believe a word the Club says in regards to the possibility of Gibbs re-signing. Nothing can be surer than he is gawn and I for one don't care one iota if he is.....
Next week we officially hit rock bottom......
just saw this tweet
"Saw a bloke nailing his carlton membership to a tree. So I grabbed it. Can never have enough nails"
I received some free tickets to tonights game so stupidly decided to go even though I knew we couldn't compete with those cyborgs..
Make no mistake people, Essendon are not playing in the same ball park as anyone else.. They have benefited so much from their PEDS program.. The must sit out two years or this comp is a joke.. Their players legs and bodies are forking huge compared to our guys, and they run all day.. They don't even look like getting tired... Its just not right..
While our players are gasping for air, they are setting up like they just just arrived at the ground.. It an absolute joke, and people dont need to look any further as to why we beat them by 93 points 3 years ago, but now get smashed by them... Its the first time I have seen Essendon live since they've taken these PEDS, and its just ridiculous... They need to be outed..
And I could have punched out half of their arrogant f head supporters tonight... It was hard to watch and I shouldn't have gone.. If these players escape bans, im giving it away..
@ Lods. I don't have that answer at the moment. We either have a bad list or a bad group of coaches. I feel we have the wrong mix of each. Some of the coaches need to move on and a good number of players need to move on to give us a fresh start. Otherwise we are not going to move forward in a hurry. Just my opinion.
Maybe bleeding in some youngs and topping up with some ready mades, along with assistance coaches that can get the job done. How else can Mick state he never saw this game coming ? He doesn't see what the coaches are doing with his squad. I don't have all the answers but something is not going to move us towards improving at all.
When you are 0-2 and lose your third without a fight, it generally sends a message to all. List bad, or coaching group bad, or at worst a combination of both. God help us if it is the last option. If we go down next week it will be all doom and gloom. We will have hit an all time low. When is the last time we were o from 4. How were we seen by the media and how did the supporters really feel. Lets pray it doesn't happen. ;)
Melbourne will give themselves a chance next week, as I reckon we'd just be able to roll Peel Thunder right now ..
Yep, as they say on here sometimes.....Danger Game.
For Melbourne......
Who do you think?
Haven't seen so many blokes just jog in behind their opponents with little pressure or intensity. That was as bad as I've seen since it all started going horrible wrong 12 years ago. F@rK it I'm going to bed.
At the 10 minute mark of the 1st quarter I noticed 4 players from cheatsfc.com directing teammates to pick up their man and/or move to set positions.
If I could have taken a photo it would have frozen the moment - four ... FOUR men in red and black firmly but calmly beseeching others to follow (to my mind) preset instructions. Two of them were Goddard and Chapman.
Would be nice to have that sort of leadership.
I received some free tickets to tonights game so stupidly decided to go even though I knew we couldn't compete with those cyborgs..
Make no mistake people, Essendon are not playing in the same ball park as anyone else.. They have benefited so much from their PEDS program.. The must sit out two years or this comp is a joke.. Their players legs and bodies are forking huge compared to our guys, and they run all day.. They don't even look like getting tired... Its just not right..
While our players are gasping for air, they are setting up like they just just arrived at the ground.. It an absolute joke, and people dont need to look any further as to why we beat them by 93 points 3 years ago, but now get smashed by them... Its the first time I have seen Essendon live since they've taken these PEDS, and its just ridiculous... They need to be outed..
And I could have punched out half of their arrogant f head supporters tonight... It was hard to watch and I shouldn't have gone.. If these players escape bans, im giving it away..
The d1ckheads on Ch 7 were salivating at the prospect of the Bummers with BummerT at the helm winning the flag this year. If that actually happened and ASADA/AFL fails to deal with the cheating players then I think there will be a huge backlash and the Bummer fans may be the only ones left at the footy.
Don't be sticking up for Carrazzo if that's what you're trying to do.....so he should have gotten that many clearances with the utter domination of Warnock in the hitouts,
Dominance, are you fecking kidding me?
Warnock 41 hitouts, 62 ranking points.
Carlilse, 18 hit outs 102 ranking points.
When asked about the ruck BumberT laughed, he fecking laughed! :-[
When the numpty Riewoldt made his ruck summary, Matthews just shooked his head he did not know what to say! >:(
Nup......I 100% stand by what I said. Warnock was fine as far as hitouts go, bit hard to get those rankings points up when you're spoon-feeding muppets who can't take advantage of your work. Although his pure ruckwork was fine, he is a witches hat the rest of the time he's out there. I tell you who was getting a ton of laughs at the ground and that was our masterful leader in Murph.....yep, he was deadset being laughed at en masse by the Essendon throng and we as Carlton supporters had to sit there and cop it, coz there was no reason to defend him.
Nup......I 100% stand by what I said. Warnock was fine as far as hitouts go, bit hard to get those rankings points up when you're spoon-feeding muppets who can't take advantage of your work. Although his pure ruckwork was fine, he is a witches hat the rest of the time he's out there. I tell you who was getting a ton of laughs at the ground and that was our masterful leader in Murph.....yep, he was deadset being laughed at en masse by the Essendon throng and we as Carlton supporters had to sit there and cop it, coz there was no reason to defend him.
Are you related?
Have another look, for example twice tonight he went uncontested in the ruck and hit it directly to the Scum, on one occasion he even used two hands to ensure it went where he intended!
It's like playing with 17 men against 18, no actually it's like playing 17 against 19 because 206 does more good things for the opposition than he does for us!
I received some free tickets to tonights game so stupidly decided to go even though I knew we couldn't compete with those cyborgs..
Make no mistake people, Essendon are not playing in the same ball park as anyone else.. They have benefited so much from their PEDS program.. The must sit out two years or this comp is a joke.. Their players legs and bodies are forking huge compared to our guys, and they run all day.. They don't even look like getting tired... Its just not right..
While our players are gasping for air, they are setting up like they just just arrived at the ground.. It an absolute joke, and people dont need to look any further as to why we beat them by 93 points 3 years ago, but now get smashed by them... Its the first time I have seen Essendon live since they've taken these PEDS, and its just ridiculous... They need to be outed..
And I could have punched out half of their arrogant f head supporters tonight... It was hard to watch and I shouldn't have gone.. If these players escape bans, im giving it away..
The d1ckheads on Ch 7 were salivating at the prospect of the Bummers with BummerT at the helm winning the flag this year. If that actually happened and ASADA/AFL fails to deal with the cheating players then I think there will be a huge backlash and the Bummer fans may be the only ones left at the footy.
Im telling ya cookie, I nearly lost it tonight... One f##ker had the nerve to yell out "and you guys played finals last year"............ "And it was thanks to us"...
So I said "yeah because you ficking cheats juiced up you moron..." They truley just dont get it.. Its like they are proud of it now because they think they've been punished, so all their players with huge bodies can run around winning premierships for them and all they got was a fine and a token ban for their coach.. They laugh about it... I cant wait for their world to come crashing down.. Essendon are the only thing in my life I have pure hatred for...
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
It's up to the coach to inspire the players, our team did not show up at any stage to play. Against Essendon. I cannot remember a more insipid effort against the scum. It's obvious the coach has lost the players.
But why aren't the players self motivated? FFS, don't they have pride in their jumper / club / own performance? I just don't get it. Surely a grown adult does not have to rely on "the coach" to motivate him to beat his opponent. Perhaps they are just playing like crap to spite him. Either way, they get paid big bucks to play at their best every week. They shouldn't get paid at all this week
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
It's up to the coach to inspire the players, our team did not show up at any stage to play. Against Essendon. I cannot remember a more insipid effort against the scum. It's obvious the coach has lost the players.
But why aren't the players self motivated? FFS, don't they have pride in their jumper / club / own performance? I just don't get it. Surely a grown adult does not have to rely on "the coach" to motivate him to beat his opponent. Perhaps they are just playing like crap to spite him. Either way, they get paid big bucks to play at their best every week. They shouldn't get paid at all this week
That's right and all those Bombers players of yours who did what just what the coach wanted and took the hundred of injections will get what they deserve.
Carlton lose and Lappyhirdystick makes an appearance.
FMD mods do your job.
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
It's up to the coach to inspire the players, our team did not show up at any stage to play. Against Essendon. I cannot remember a more insipid effort against the scum. It's obvious the coach has lost the players.
But why aren't the players self motivated? FFS, don't they have pride in their jumper / club / own performance? I just don't get it. Surely a grown adult does not have to rely on "the coach" to motivate him to beat his opponent. Perhaps they are just playing like crap to spite him. Either way, they get paid big bucks to play at their best every week. They shouldn't get paid at all this week
Like a good Essendon supporter you show up on the back of a famous loss.
I await your opinions when the IN's destroy your club.
Like a good Essendon supporter you show up on the back of a famous loss.
I await your opinions when the IN's destroy your club.
You know what would be sweet, we get BumberT as coach and they get Hird back! ;)
Like a good Essendon supporter you show up on the back of a famous loss.
I await your opinions when the IN's destroy your club.
You know what would be sweet, we get BumberT as coach and they get Hird back! ;)
It would but if the In's roll into town Hird and Bomber are screwed.
I'm not defending MM but that's 2 posts of yours tonight that appear to lay the blame solely at the feet of the coach. thats a cop out. The players were bloody awful and deserve a flogging for that performance.
It's up to the coach to inspire the players, our team did not show up at any stage to play. Against Essendon. I cannot remember a more insipid effort against the scum. It's obvious the coach has lost the players.
But why aren't the players self motivated? FFS, don't they have pride in their jumper / club / own performance? I just don't get it. Surely a grown adult does not have to rely on "the coach" to motivate him to beat his opponent. Perhaps they are just playing like crap to spite him. Either way, they get paid big bucks to play at their best every week. They shouldn't get paid at all this week
Like a good Essendon supporter you show up on the back of a famous loss.
I await your opinions when the IN's destroy your club.
That's what I said to the BIL. But he just laughed his head off....
That's what I said to the BIL. But he just laughed his head off....
As much as I hate to entertain a troll, I shall bite.
Who is BIL?
The lack of pride in the jumper disturbs me greatly.
It's all very sad, embarrassing and downright unacceptable.
Totally agree with this.
For me it's both the coach and the players at fault. Big issues down at the club, and I don't see any short term fix. I reckon we're in for a fair bit of pain b4 we see any real success any time in the future.
That's what I said to the BIL. But he just laughed his head off....
As much as I hate to entertain a troll, I shall bite.
Who is BIL?
Brother In Law
That's what I said to the BIL. But he just laughed his head off....
As much as I hate to entertain a troll, I shall bite.
Who is BIL?
Actually don't bother I now remember that it is your brother in law. A mask under which you pathetically masquerade, unfortunately for you ASADA are well aware of masks AOD being one of them. Oh yes IN's are coming. You can bet on it.
That's what I said to the BIL. But he just laughed his head off....
As much as I hate to entertain a troll, I shall bite.
Who is BIL?
Brother In Law
Doesn't even dispute the troll allegation, Mods WTF?
For a group of players to look so disinterested, be so soft, so utterly inept as professional sportsman for an entire game.....there's gotta be something going on, there HAS to be.
Agree, I just don't know what, but someone needs to stand up and stop the rot.
I knew you couldn't make strawberry jam out of horse sht but I never realised you could actually make horse sht out of strawberry jam!! MM is a miracle worker!
@Jamie
Sorry the peptides don't fly with this one, they never got out of third gear and changed down to second after a quarter of football. Not to mention blokes like Goddard, Daniher, Gleeson, Chapman, Baguely and Merret who were all in their best weren't around when the peptides were going around. Can't look past the coach here unfortunately.
Nup......I 100% stand by what I said. Warnock was fine as far as hitouts go, bit hard to get those rankings points up when you're spoon-feeding muppets who can't take advantage of your work. Although his pure ruckwork was fine, he is a witches hat the rest of the time he's out there. I tell you who was getting a ton of laughs at the ground and that was our masterful leader in Murph.....yep, he was deadset being laughed at en masse by the Essendon throng and we as Carlton supporters had to sit there and cop it, coz there was no reason to defend him.
Are you related?
Have another look, for example twice tonight he went uncontested in the ruck and hit it directly to the Scum, on one occasion he even used two hands to ensure it went where he intended!
It's like playing with 17 men against 18, no actually it's like playing 17 against 19 because 206 does more good things for the opposition than he does for us!
If you want to use the '100% rule' to suit your argument, then go right ahead....oops, too late, you already did. Fcuk me, did I say every one of his hitouts was to our advantage? Has that ever happened to any ruckman in any game ever? No, you pick out a couple of isolated incidents to 'prove' your point. Warnock's involvement in general play around the ground was as usual non-existent, but compared to what most of his teammates dished up for most of the night, his actual hitout work wasn't anywhere near the headache for MM that most other aspects of our play were.
Also, for mine, time to put Walker back into the forward line as a permanent attacker. He's a far better shot for goal than he is field kicker. We are bereft of decent mid-sized forwards, which is where Walker enjoyed his best season to date.
WTF is it with playing Walker down back anyway? He's already proven he's not competent down back but an excellent forward. The old fool can't even see the blindingly obvious.
For a group of players to look so disinterested, be so soft, so utterly inept as professional sportsman for an entire game.....there's gotta be something going on, there HAS to be.
Agree, I just don't know what, but someone needs to stand up and stop the rot.
How dispirited did they look from the get-go? It's not like Essendon came out and went the knuckle or did anything out of the ordinary to put us off our collective game.....nup, just simply played limp from that very first bounce and didn't give a yelp all game. Reckon even the Bombers would've been surprised at the lack of resistance they were up against. Wasn't much different to the Eagles vs Demons contest from the week prior, except perhaps Melbourne showed a lot more ticker.
I wonder if MM rates his performance as deplorable like Roosy rated his own last week? Or is he just going to blame the players again?
I wonder if MM rates his performance as deplorable like Roosy rated his own last week? Or is he just going to blame the players again?
It'll be 100% the players.....
Malthouse fell into the trap Ratten did a few times when he believed the side was hard enough to drop players like McLean or make Bell sub. He found out in a big way that Robinson, Bell and McLean are required players until they bring better skilled hard nuts.
A midfield of Murphy, Curnow and Carrazzo is too small and too slow especially we're a man down after the tap.
Malthouse fell into the trap Ratten did a few times when he believed the side was hard enough to drop players like McLean or make Bell sub. He found out in a big way that Robinson, Bell and McLean are required players until they bring better skilled hard nuts.
Stop speaking BS. Mclean was hopeless under Ratts, when he finally showed something he wasn't dropped. Bell was injured for the majority of Ratts' last year and when he got a game towards the end of the year he stayed in the team. Quite simply, Ratten never made these errors himself. He as a far better coach.
Malthouse fell into the trap Ratten did a few times when he believed the side was hard enough to drop players like McLean or make Bell sub. He found out in a big way that Robinson, Bell and McLean are required players until they bring better skilled hard nuts.
Stop speaking BS. Mclean was hopeless under Ratts, when he finally showed something he wasn't dropped. Bell was injured for the majority of Ratts' last year and when he got a game towards the end of the year he stayed in the team. Quite simply, Ratten never made these errors himself. He as a far better coach.
I said players like, learn how to read. In Ratten's case he used to drop Robinson and by all rights he should have been dropped but then we were exposed by how soft we were.
When did he drop Robinson? Robbo was a heartbeat of the side under Ratts, has now gone backwards at the rate of knots.
When did he drop Robinson? Robbo was a heartbeat of the side under Ratts, has now gone backwards at the rate of knots.
Somewhere around 2010, we went through a bad patch after starting the season well. Backs to the wall I remember he brought back in Robbo and Ellard and we smashed the bombers.
Yeah don't remember it and it has zero relevance to the fact that MM is absolute crap and we made a huge mistake. No doubt you will back the dud coach to the hilt in order to try and save face. Cmon, tell us we're all wrong and it's all the players. Tell us how bad Ratten was and how it's all his fault. Can't wait to hear it.
Yeah don't remember it and it has zero relevance to the fact that MM is absolute crap and we made a huge mistake. No doubt you will back the dud coach to the hilt in order to try and save face. Cmon, tell us we're all wrong and it's all the players. Tell us how bad Ratten was and how it's all his fault. Can't wait to hear it.
Malthouse is one of the greatest coaches of all time and has won 51 finals and 3 flags. Ratten won 1 final and is now an assistant coach.
:))
Let's not pretend this crap didn't happen under Ratten.
2012: Lost to the Crows by 69 points, Lost to lowly Port Adelaide by 54, Lost to Hawthorn by 50.
Crippled by injury. What Malthouse's excuse?
I wonder if MM rates his performance as deplorable like Roosy rated his own last week? Or is he just going to blame the players again?
No, MM said he was not prepared for what the Bombers dished up. I take that as a partial confession that he got it wrong.
Crippled by injury. What Malthouse's excuse?
Why didn't Judd or Kreuzer play?
I wonder if MM rates his performance as deplorable like Roosy rated his own last week? Or is he just going to blame the players again?
No, MM said he was not prepared for what the Bombers dished up. I take that as a partial confession that he got it wrong.
None of us were prepared not so much for what the Bombers dished-up....moreso what we dished-up. I repeat, that very first clearance of the game became our benchmark for the entire game: no accountability, no pressure.....it was one of the weakest & laziest CFC efforts I've seen in recent memory.
Totally outclassed and outran, bummers reminded me of the Hawks game plan on Friday night. i hate to say it but it was brillint.
I think ive said this before, but i feel that are bodies are really small (and weak) by comparison, we looked like form 1ers playing against the form 6ers.
A couple of observations, Gibbs, there was a moment in the last quarter i think it was were an opponent ran past him as if he wasnt there and he gave up his chase......good as gone imho. Also Buckley, even though he made a few mistakes, i really think this boy is going to be good, he really tries and has good skills and awareness.....heres' hoping anyway.
I wonder if MM rates his performance as deplorable like Roosy rated his own last week? Or is he just going to blame the players again?
No, MM said he was not prepared for what the Bombers dished up. I take that as a partial confession that he got it wrong.
Not the first time he has said that. It seems he doesn't do his homework on oppositions as well as others.
Crippled by injury. What Malthouse's excuse?
Why didn't Judd or Kreuzer play?
Kreuzer. Would have made the difference. :))
Crippled by injury. What Malthouse's excuse?
We were discussing this last night at the game.....Ratten got ultimately judged in a season whereby injuries hurt us more than any other in the past 10 years & an obsession by Sticks & Swann to get 'their man' (i.e. Malthouse, who was now very much available), which had always been Pratt's wish.
The Malthouse gameplan is to hug the boundary, then bomb into the forward line or kick it into the pockets. Who else in the AFL currently employs this gameplan? "But it worked at Collingwood....." - it did, 'cos like Pagan @ North, he was able to develop this gameplan with a young list.....in other words, their respective lists developed with their gameplan - a largely established list like ours doesn't have that luxury & just like the Pagan gameplan, the MM blueprint isn't suited to our playing group and the blueprint itself is now waaaaaaay outdated as the younger, more progressive coaches employ new ideas, new tactics, new gameplans which have superseded MM's once-upon-a-time recipe for success.
Our style looks stale, I fcking hate watching it. The forward line has been an unmitigated mess this year & if Waite & Casboult aren't the worst set shots for goal in the AFL, I'd like to know who is. What's happened to Tuohy? The guy is a mess.....I counted 7 goals kicked on him last night by his various opponents as MM tried to hide him wherever he could.....7 fcking goals!!! Are you kidding me!?
Like it or not, MM will be there this year & next at the very least (we don't have the $$$ to pay out this guy's contract!!!) & to his credit, he did cull a fair few who's heads we'd been calling for for a while and sounds like come season's end we'll see much of the same.....but of course, to get rid of so many, you've got to develop/draft/trade for adequate replacements and of course hit FA hard....but it's hard to make a pitch to someone like say James Frawley, when you throw up performances such as last night & can't guarantee the likes of Gibbs will still be around.
*sigh*......
Crippled by injury. What Malthouse's excuse?
Why didn't Judd or Kreuzer play?
Kreuzer. Would have made the difference. :))
;D I'll pay that......
I wonder if MM rates his performance as deplorable like Roosy rated his own last week? Or is he just going to blame the players again?
No, MM said he was not prepared for what the Bombers dished up. I take that as a partial confession that he got it wrong.
Not the first time he has said that. It seems he doesn't do his homework on oppositions as well as others.
But I thought that was Laidley's field of expertise...... ::)
Yeah don't remember it and it has zero relevance to the fact that MM is absolute crap and we made a huge mistake. No doubt you will back the dud coach to the hilt in order to try and save face. Cmon, tell us we're all wrong and it's all the players. Tell us how bad Ratten was and how it's all his fault. Can't wait to hear it.
Malthouse is one of the greatest coaches of all time and has won 51 finals and 3 flags. Ratten won 1 final and is now an assistant coach.
so was jock mchale, ron barassi and leigh matthews
Malthouse won 3 flags in 30 years, in comparison, Bummer T 2 in 10 years, Clarkson 2 in 10 years, Pagan 2 in 8 years. Malthouse won 2 of those flags with the powerhouse WCE, juiced up and all. He's won one premiership in the last 20 years and he did a great job of nearly losing that one too. All coaches reach their use by date and we seem to be doing a good job of picking them up after that happens.
Malthouse won 3 flags in 30 years, in comparison, Bummer T 2 in 10 years, Clarkson 2 in 10 years, Pagan 2 in 8 years. Malthouse won 2 of those flags with the powerhouse WCE, juiced up and all. All coaches reach their use by date and we seem to be doing a good job of picking them up after that happens.
It's not just coaches....
McGuane
McKenna
Mansfield
Martyn.........It's The Carlton "M" curse ;)
Malthouse won 3 flags in 30 years, in comparison, Bummer T 2 in 10 years, Clarkson 2 in 10 years, Pagan 2 in 8 years. Malthouse won 2 of those flags with the powerhouse WCE, juiced up and all. He's won one premiership in the last 20 years and he did a great job of nearly losing that one too. All coaches reach their use by date and we seem to be doing a good job of picking them up after that happens.
51 finals wins. Spin that.
The Blues have their pride, and by lifting their endeavour managed to stall Essendon for half an hour and set the contest to neutral. That is, momentarily they were not a rabble. It didn't last.
The Bombers returned to their well-drilled ways. The Blues soon were again a rabble. Paul Chapman kicked a couple of his pirouette goals, but everything else was the sort of ruthless, relentless style of football that will have every other team looking over their shoulders, and some hearing footsteps.
As for the Blues, their fiercest contest was between Robert Warnock and David Ellard, remonstrating about blame while the Bombers were kicking another goal.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-match-report/bombers-humiliate-old-enemy-20140406-36764.html#ixzz2y9DxfOgg
You can say what you like about the coach, but I was at that game last night and all I saw were players who refused to man up, refused to run and spread, could not deliver by hand or by foot consistently and fumbled the ball like they were a bunch of Auskick kids. This talk about the players wanting to play for the coach may have been true in the 70's and 80's but these guys are professionals and as such at some stage have to be accountable for their own actions. It's called pride. I can't imagine any coach in the AFL would have got that much better a result. It surely must now be apparent to all we don't have the cattle. Our recruitment has been both deplorable and unfortunate. Each of Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer have been underachievers for various reasons, yet they were all rated as no 1 picks by ALL the experts so where did it go wrong? Can't help but concur with others that our development people are incompetent and need to be moved on. Let's bite the bullet and start again.
Consider the following
Short term option, drop these guys
Mitch Robinson too slow and butchers the ball.
Zach Tuohy sadly out of form.
Simon White gives us nothing.
Jeff Garlett nowhere near it without Eddie around.
Sam Rowe not up to it and he won't be around at years end so why play him?
Robert Warnock the biggest spud in AFL football. I sick of other teams laughing at us because of him and his deficiencies.
Bring in whoever is showing ANYTHING in the magoos and who can kick and is willing to give it a crack. Note : NO to Watson
Play these guys ad nauseam even is they play crappola
Troy Menzel
Dylan Buckley
David Ellard like him but what's his long term prospects? Still I'd have him ahead of Jeff at the moment so let him play and Jeff can have a rest and move over to Adelaide with Eddie at years end.
Only one slow butcher allowed at any one time in this team so Tom Bell gets the nod ahead of Robbo but seriously look at cutting him as well at years end.
These guys are going soon but need to be played with one proviso that Walker plays up forward from now on.
Jarrad Waite 31
Andrew Carrazzo 31
Kade Simpson 30
Andrew Walker 28
Michael Jamison 28
These two are probably the only 2 on our list worth anything
Lachie Henderson
Chris Yarran
We should only play one tagger in our team for the rest of the year and that is Ed Curnow at this point in time, with maybe Cachia as the fall back.
Will only ever be good ordinary players
Dale Thomas
Andrejs Everitt
Strategy is to rotate through each and every young kid on our list and see if they can cut it with a view of off-loading anyone who can't kick AND run fast at years end. I would rather lose by 100 points each and every week for the rest of the year and get another wooden spoon and die trying something new than put up with that sort of exhibition again. Let's just make sure we have better recruiting staff than we have now. Make the call now and stop the rot. No more pathetic club propaganda
You can say what you like about the coach, but I was at that game last night and all I saw were players who refused to man up, refused to run and spread, could not deliver by hand or by foot consistently and fumbled the ball like they were a bunch of Auskick kids. This talk about the players wanting to play for the coach may have been true in the 70's and 80's but these guys are professionals and as such at some stage have to be accountable for their own actions. It's called pride. I can't imagine any coach in the AFL would have got that much better a result. It surely must now be apparent to all we don't have the cattle. Our recruitment has been both deplorable and unfortunate. Each of Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer have been underachievers for various reasons, yet they were all rated as no 1 picks by ALL the experts so where did it go wrong? Can't help but concur with others that our development people are incompetent and need to be moved on. Let's bite the bullet and start again.
Consider the following
Short term option, drop these guys
Mitch Robinson too slow and butchers the ball.
Zach Tuohy sadly out of form.
Simon White gives us nothing.
Jeff Garlett nowhere near it without Eddie around.
Sam Rowe not up to it and he won't be around at years end so why play him?
Robert Warnock the biggest spud in AFL football. I sick of other teams laughing at us because of him and his deficiencies.
Bring in whoever is showing ANYTHING in the magoos and who can kick and is willing to give it a crack. Note : NO to Watson
Play these guys ad nauseam even is they play crappola
Troy Menzel
Dylan Buckley
David Ellard like him but what's his long term prospects? Still I'd have him ahead of Jeff at the moment so let him play and Jeff can have a rest and move over to Adelaide with Eddie at years end.
Only one slow butcher allowed at any one time in this team so Tom Bell gets the nod ahead of Robbo but seriously look at cutting him as well at years end.
These guys are going soon but need to be played with one proviso that Walker plays up forward from now on.
Jarrad Waite 31
Andrew Carrazzo 31
Kade Simpson 30
Andrew Walker 28
Michael Jamison 28
These two are probably the only 2 on our list worth anything
Lachie Henderson
Chris Yarran
We should only play one tagger in our team for the rest of the year and that is Ed Curnow at this point in time, with maybe Cachia as the fall back.
Will only ever be good ordinary players
Dale Thomas
Andrejs Everitt
Strategy is to rotate through each and every young kid on our list and see if they can cut it with a view of off-loading anyone who can't kick AND run fast at years end. I would rather lose by 100 points each and every week for the rest of the year and get another wooden spoon and die trying something new than put up with that sort of exhibition again. Let's just make sure we have better recruiting staff than we have now. Make the call now and stop the rot. No more pathetic club propaganda
makes sense, but sadly it wont happen.
MM said in the presser, he cant wait til the next game comes around
Like a sad gambler that keeps putting in money to get back losses
I wonder if MM rates his performance as deplorable like Roosy rated his own last week? Or is he just going to blame the players again?
No, MM said he was not prepared for what the Bombers dished up. I take that as a partial confession that he got it wrong.
None of us were prepared not so much for what the Bombers dished-up....moreso what we dished-up. I repeat, that very first clearance of the game became our benchmark for the entire game: no accountability, no pressure.....it was one of the weakest & laziest CFC efforts I've seen in recent memory.
Writing was on the wall for this one I'm afraid. One good quarter should not have hid the putrid stuff we were putting up for most games. This was always going to happen it was just Swan's comments which fast tracked the process. Better Essendon than Melbourne though as if we have any pride we'll bounce back but I would not be surprised if we limped across the line which wouldbe an indication that this group is shot - aside from Judd maybe coming back and dragging us to some wins with his smashed body.
Pretty hard to argue with any of that Rocky. :'(
Seen Curnow do some good things last year , buts he's stunk it up so far this year. I wouldn't have him in my team.
I'd rather Wood as our ruck TBH. Warnock is the invisible man after a tap out and I dare say that he's tap outs would barely be 50% to advantage anyway..
Casboult needs to come in. Bell needs to start. These bigger boys need to be told to use there bodies or start seeking employment elswhere.
Robbo needs to be dropped for 2 or 3 weeks to get that killer instinct back in him. He's never been our most skilful player but ATM, he isnt even providing us with grunt. He provides nothing, nada, zilch.
Start preparing now for the yard sales. Fatten up the cattle to get the best price for em.
You can say what you like about the coach, but I was at that game last night and all I saw were players who refused to man up, refused to run and spread, could not deliver by hand or by foot consistently and fumbled the ball like they were a bunch of Auskick kids. This talk about the players wanting to play for the coach may have been true in the 70's and 80's but these guys are professionals and as such at some stage have to be accountable for their own actions. It's called pride. I can't imagine any coach in the AFL would have got that much better a result. It surely must now be apparent to all we don't have the cattle. Our recruitment has been both deplorable and unfortunate. Each of Murphy, Gibbs and Kreuzer have been underachievers for various reasons, yet they were all rated as no 1 picks by ALL the experts so where did it go wrong? Can't help but concur with others that our development people are incompetent and need to be moved on. Let's bite the bullet and start again.
Consider the following
Short term option, drop these guys
Mitch Robinson too slow and butchers the ball.
Zach Tuohy sadly out of form.
Simon White gives us nothing.
Jeff Garlett nowhere near it without Eddie around.
Sam Rowe not up to it and he won't be around at years end so why play him?
Robert Warnock the biggest spud in AFL football. I sick of other teams laughing at us because of him and his deficiencies.
Bring in whoever is showing ANYTHING in the magoos and who can kick and is willing to give it a crack. Note : NO to Watson
Play these guys ad nauseam even is they play crappola
Troy Menzel
Dylan Buckley
David Ellard like him but what's his long term prospects? Still I'd have him ahead of Jeff at the moment so let him play and Jeff can have a rest and move over to Adelaide with Eddie at years end.
Only one slow butcher allowed at any one time in this team so Tom Bell gets the nod ahead of Robbo but seriously look at cutting him as well at years end.
These guys are going soon but need to be played with one proviso that Walker plays up forward from now on.
Jarrad Waite 31
Andrew Carrazzo 31
Kade Simpson 30
Andrew Walker 28
Michael Jamison 28
These two are probably the only 2 on our list worth anything
Lachie Henderson
Chris Yarran
We should only play one tagger in our team for the rest of the year and that is Ed Curnow at this point in time, with maybe Cachia as the fall back.
Will only ever be good ordinary players
Dale Thomas
Andrejs Everitt
Strategy is to rotate through each and every young kid on our list and see if they can cut it with a view of off-loading anyone who can't kick AND run fast at years end. I would rather lose by 100 points each and every week for the rest of the year and get another wooden spoon and die trying something new than put up with that sort of exhibition again. Let's just make sure we have better recruiting staff than we have now. Make the call now and stop the rot. No more pathetic club propaganda
I went too, and the lack of teamwork, chat, commitment, effort, manning up, blocking, flying the flag etc was just absolutely ridiculous.
These guys chose their futures when they played this way under Ratten and helped get him out, and now they can live with their lot with the bloke they all probably wanted in at the time.
Dead set pretenders.
Before any call on any coach gets made that board needs to turn the blowtorch onto themselves and start honestly appraising where they are at, because THEY are responsible for why we are this way today.
Malthouse won 3 flags in 30 years, in comparison, Bummer T 2 in 10 years, Clarkson 2 in 10 years, Pagan 2 in 8 years. Malthouse won 2 of those flags with the powerhouse WCE, juiced up and all. He's won one premiership in the last 20 years and he did a great job of nearly losing that one too. All coaches reach their use by date and we seem to be doing a good job of picking them up after that happens.
51 finals wins. Spin that.
80+ points. Spin that.
No more pathetic club propaganda
I'm with you brother.
I cant get over MM saying he didnt see this coming??? :o :o
I did. Surely I'm not the only one ::) ::)
The only chance I gave us was 10 minutes before the game when I did some maths. :o :o :o
I figured that we turned up at half time last week and seeing that daylight savings kicked in.....that would mean we'd be right from the get go!!! :-[
Phew, just as well i dont bet!! ;)
Before any call on any coach gets made that board needs to turn the blowtorch onto themselves and start honestly appraising where they are at, because THEY are responsible for why we are this way today.
So true, sacking a club great off the back of an injury riddled season to bring in this old fool is worse than the Pagan job.
Malthouse won 3 flags in 30 years, in comparison, Bummer T 2 in 10 years, Clarkson 2 in 10 years, Pagan 2 in 8 years. Malthouse won 2 of those flags with the powerhouse WCE, juiced up and all. He's won one premiership in the last 20 years and he did a great job of nearly losing that one too. All coaches reach their use by date and we seem to be doing a good job of picking them up after that happens.
51 finals wins. Spin that.
80+ points. Spin that.
Freo got flogged in the same fashion on Friday night, should they sack Lyon?
LMAO. You're getting really delusional now. Lyon has proven himself at his current club, we have gone backwards.
Seen Curnow do some good things last year , buts he's stunk it up so far this year. I wouldn't have him in my team.
Really BB? I thought Ed had been pretty good this year. Even last night he set up one of our goals when he received the ball and ran through the center of the ground, taking a bounce no less, and delivering to Menzel.
Any thoughts on the MM after match presser ?
What's with the paper flapping, which everyone thinks is the stat sheet for the seniors, but turns out to be the NB stat sheet, which he fesses up to after being questioned by a journalist ? Why bother bringing in at all ? Just bring the funnies from the Sunday paper.
LMAO. You're getting really delusional now. Lyon has proven himself at his current club, we have gone backwards.
Judging by last Friday night Freo have gone backwards.
Judging by last Friday night Freo have gone backwards.
Maybe, but at least they have shown something this season!
They are not the first club to play badly the week after a soft win over the GC!
Judging by last Friday night Freo have gone backwards.
Maybe, but at least they have shown something this season!
They are not the first club to play badly the week after a soft win over the GC!
They showed they couldn't compete without Fyfe. If Judd played the first 3 rounds we would have definitely beat Richmond.
They showed they couldn't compete without Fyfe. If Judd played the first 3 rounds we would have definitely beat Richmond.
Maybe it is the Dawks improving, they have had Ratt's there for 18 months now he is probably starting to make an impact! ;D
Judging by last Friday night Freo have gone backwards.
Maybe, but at least they have shown something this season!
They are not the first club to play badly the week after a soft win over the GC!
They showed they couldn't compete without Fyfe. If Judd played the first 3 rounds we would have definitely beat Richmond.
If we didn't have so many injuries in 2012 we would've played finals.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-coach-mick-malthouse-says-blues-were-embarrassed-by-essendon-at-the-mcg/story-fni5f5nx-1226876212771
Before any call on any coach gets made that board needs to turn the blowtorch onto themselves and start honestly appraising where they are at, because THEY are responsible for why we are this way today.
So true, sacking a club great off the back of an injury riddled season to bring in this old fool is worse than the Pagan job.
Time you stopped living in the past. Ratts failed, club great or not. Sticks has failed as a President, club great or not.
We've not had a successful Senior Coach at the CFC since Parkin. And so far this season, that fact seems unlikely to change.
If we didn't have so many injuries in 2012 we would've played finals.
I agree with that. I never blamed Ratten for the losses, I said the players let him down and got him sacked. I said he had to take some responsibility for building that team and after 5 years he probably had long enough and we needed to rebuild.
It's all archived in the old forum.
Malthouse won 3 flags in 30 years, in comparison, Bummer T 2 in 10 years, Clarkson 2 in 10 years, Pagan 2 in 8 years. Malthouse won 2 of those flags with the powerhouse WCE, juiced up and all. He's won one premiership in the last 20 years and he did a great job of nearly losing that one too. All coaches reach their use by date and we seem to be doing a good job of picking them up after that happens.
51 finals wins. Spin that.
80+ points. Spin that.
Freo got flogged in the same fashion on Friday night, should they sack Lyon?
Against the reihning Premiers (with injuries) - god only knows what they might hand us.
If we didn't have so many injuries in 2012 we would've played finals.
I agree with that. I never blamed Ratten for the losses, I said the players let him down and got him sacked. I said he had to take some responsibility for building that team and after 5 years he probably had long enough and we needed to rebuild.
It's all archived in the old forum.
Albeit in a far greater vindictive manner. Just admit that we may have got it wrong, surely you can see the writing on the wall? You're not stupid I know that much.
Against the reihning Premiers (with injuries) - god only knows what they might hand us.
Did you miss the Essendon Hawthorn game last week?
Albeit in a far greater vindictive manner. Just admit that we may have got it wrong, surely you can see the writing on the wall? You're not stupid I know that much.
We have different expectations of our list. Only once since 2000 have I ever thought we could win the premiership. That was after rd 3 2012, one week later I realized that I was dead wrong.
Albeit in a far greater vindictive manner. Just admit that we may have got it wrong, surely you can see the writing on the wall? You're not stupid I know that much.
We have different expectations of our list. Only once since 2000 have I ever thought we could win the premiership. That was after rd 3 2012, one week later I realized that I was dead wrong.
But.....surely you can see our list is not this bad and our side is playing with little to no spirit. And I know the way you think and that should mean the coach is accountable for these performances. And I'm not talking about just last night. Against Port we just rolled over and gave up and i don't want to hear any more Baggers BS about Port being fitter etc. that myth was put to bed yesterday afternoon.
Let me put it to you this way, if we lose to Melbourne next week where does the coach sit with you?
Against Port we just rolled over and gave up and i don't want to hear any more Baggers BS about Port being fitter etc. that myth was put to bed yesterday afternoon.
How do you explain our loss to Port in 2012 when they were worse than Melbourne? We had everything to play for in that game. ;)
But.....surely you can see our list is not this bad and our side is playing with little to no spirit.
I've said for the last 5 years that our list is a bunch of front runners. Our best players are also our worst.
Against Port we just rolled over and gave up and i don't want to hear any more Baggers BS about Port being fitter etc. that myth was put to bed yesterday afternoon.
How do you explain our loss to Port in 2012 when they were worse than Melbourne? We had everything to play for in that game. ;)
What's your point how does that make MMs performance any better?
But.....surely you can see our list is not this bad and our side is playing with little to no spirit.
I've said for the last 5 years that our list is a bunch of front runners. Our best players are also our worst.
But we are still worthy of playing finals or at least challenging for a spot. there is clearly talent there, it's up to the coach to harness that talent. If he can't it's bye bye IMO.
I picked us to finish mid table last year and this year. Make the finals or just miss out, last year we did both.
Mick isn't going anywhere in the short term, his performance will be reviewed at the end of the year.
I think MM needs to take over from the Assistants for a few weeks. Preach the message himself, no Chinese whispers, no diluting the message, straight from the horses mouth, old style coaching, everyone working from the same page...ya dee ya dee yaaa!
Against Port we just rolled over and gave up and i don't want to hear any more Baggers BS about Port being fitter etc. that myth was put to bed yesterday afternoon.
How do you explain our loss to Port in 2012 when they were worse than Melbourne? We had everything to play for in that game. ;)
What's your point how does that make MMs performance any better?
I think you're right, MM has only set us back with his ancient gameplan and the fact that no one seems to stay in their spot for more than five minutes. Waite forward. Waite back. Walker back. Walker forward. Henderson back forward whatever. It drives me insane. Agree to a structure and stick to it for as long as possible. Get people used to a position. Make them accountable for that position.
But Ratts was never good enough. Lovely bloke. Good speaker. But could never get the boys up when it counted. He had five years and while 2012 was a tough year to be sacked given the injuries, the writing was on the wall before that. Our foot skills and tackling was awful under his tenure. And we were soft. Ratts will be a great assistant coach but he's not a head coach.
Crippled by injury. What Malthouse's excuse?
We were discussing this last night at the game.....Ratten got ultimately judged in a season whereby injuries hurt us more than any other in the past 10 years & an obsession by Sticks & Swann to get 'their man' (i.e. Malthouse, who was now very much available), which had always been Pratt's wish.
The Malthouse gameplan is to hug the boundary, then bomb into the forward line or kick it into the pockets. Who else in the AFL currently employs this gameplan? "But it worked at Collingwood....." - it did, 'cos like Pagan @ North, he was able to develop this gameplan with a young list.....in other words, their respective lists developed with their gameplan - a largely established list like ours doesn't have that luxury & just like the Pagan gameplan, the MM blueprint isn't suited to our playing group and the blueprint itself is now waaaaaaay outdated as the younger, more progressive coaches employ new ideas, new tactics, new gameplans which have superseded MM's once-upon-a-time recipe for success.
Our style looks stale, I fcking hate watching it. The forward line has been an unmitigated mess this year & if Waite & Casboult aren't the worst set shots for goal in the AFL, I'd like to know who is. What's happened to Tuohy? The guy is a mess.....I counted 7 goals kicked on him last night by his various opponents as MM tried to hide him wherever he could.....7 fcking goals!!! Are you kidding me!?
Like it or not, MM will be there this year & next at the very least (we don't have the $$$ to pay out this guy's contract!!!) & to his credit, he did cull a fair few who's heads we'd been calling for for a while and sounds like come season's end we'll see much of the same.....but of course, to get rid of so many, you've got to develop/draft/trade for adequate replacements and of course hit FA hard....but it's hard to make a pitch to someone like say James Frawley, when you throw up performances such as last night & can't guarantee the likes of Gibbs will still be around.
*sigh*......
At least Ratten had a style. There was no better sight in football than our guys breaking from Half back, slicing through the corridor to an open forward line, running into open goal. Sure it failed when teams put the pressure on but it was a gameplan.
I never liked the Coaching appointment, but was willing to give it a chance. Malthouse, the defensive Genius, teams supposedly built on hard uncompromising football, should be able to come in and "tweak" our frontrunning gameplan, and teacht eh players to run both ways and still play with there natural freedom and spirit...
Instead i saw players last night, stop, prop, kick backwards, sideways and long to nothing. Then ont he way back, there were guys pointing fingers, not tracking men, just no obvious idea of where to be or what to do.
He has broken down the good bits of the Ratten era and completely destroyed all confidence from those players who take the game on. at least we are better defensively though?
Points against: 356 (17th in the comp)
Last two years I've notice our on-field attitude change, despite the injuries of 2012. Seems we thought we were going to "make it" after a great 2011 where we should've made the PF. Players them tend to "go through the motions" rather than work hard to achieve that next level. We made finals without a great attitude all year, and even won a final, just to show the side at least has talent. "Too easy" obviously so why work hard. Hence the crap thus far.. It's a player problem, not a coach. We change the coach again but players attitude is the same. It's what Richmond have been through for 30 years.
What MM has to work out that his Collingwood game plan doesn't work here. Often he has changed it mid-stream only for us to come from the clouds and win or nearly win. Surely there's a message. If he's flexible enough to do that during a game when desperate then surely it's fkn time to be flexible enough to do it from the start. It's not that hard to work out. I know we had to improve defensively as we tended to be a one way side, but you do that within our own strength and abilities, not with something that doesn't suit.
For the first time we may have a decent youth, albeit a couple still need to be seen at senior level although looking promising, so it might be time to use them a number of times this season and refresh the list. Going to have to move on the one way non-working types regardless of ability. We need to so that culture.
Last two years I've notice our on-field attitude change, despite the injuries of 2012. Seems we thought we were going to "make it" after a great 2011 where we should've made the PF. Players them tend to "go through the motions" rather than work hard to achieve that next level. We made finals without a great attitude all year, and even won a final, just to show the side at least has talent. "Too easy" obviously so why work hard. Hence the crap thus far.. It's a player problem, not a coach. We change the coach again but players attitude is the same. It's what Richmond have been through for 30 years.
What MM has to work out that his Collingwood game plan doesn't work here. Often he has changed it mid-stream only for us to come from the clouds and win or nearly win. Surely there's a message. If he's flexible enough to do that during a game when desperate then surely it's fkn time to be flexible enough to do it from the start. It's not that hard to work out. I know we had to improve defensively as we tended to be a one way side, but you do that within our own strength and abilities, not with something that doesn't suit.
For the first time we may have a decent youth, albeit a couple still need to be seen at senior level although looking promising, so it might be time to use them a number of times this season and refresh the list. Going to have to move on the one way non-working types regardless of ability. We need to so that culture.
Fair post.
At least Ratten had a style. There was no better sight in football than our guys breaking from Half back, slicing through the corridor to an open forward line, running into open goal. Sure it failed when teams put the pressure on but it was a gameplan.
I never liked the Coaching appointment, but was willing to give it a chance. Malthouse, the defensive Genius, teams supposedly built on hard uncompromising football, should be able to come in and "tweak" our frontrunning gameplan, and teacht eh players to run both ways and still play with there natural freedom and spirit...
Instead i saw players last night, stop, prop, kick backwards, sideways and long to nothing. Then ont he way back, there were guys pointing fingers, not tracking men, just no obvious idea of where to be or what to do.
He has broken down the good bits of the Ratten era and completely destroyed all confidence from those players who take the game on. at least we are better defensively though?
Points against: 356 (17th in the comp)
Amen to that. Last year we conceded on average 90 points per game. this year nearly 120. Compare that to 2012 and Ratts' non defensive attacking gameplan and terrible injuries where we conceded 87.5 points per game or 2011, 77 points per game! There was nothing forking wrong with our defence under Ratts but it's progressively got worse under MM. AND we find it harder to score. Go figure.
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
Starts with the coach
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
Starts with the coach
So so true.....
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
It's been happening since Fev left, he was one guy who used to fly the flag and show some aggression.
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
Starts with the coach
Thing is once you've had a pile of coaches and the same things keep happening you have to look elsewhere too.
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
Starts with the coach
Thing is once you've had a pile of coaches and the same things keep happening you have to look elsewhere too.
Who are the pile of coaches? No one really left from pagan era and other than Ratts there's Mick.
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
Starts with the coach
Thing is once you've had a pile of coaches and the same things keep happening you have to look elsewhere too.
Jim,
that may well be true, but if so, why sack the coach ? Why not sack the players etc who may be the central cause of the bad culture ? Why bring in a new coach and pay him big $$$$$$$$ when it's a non-coach problem ?
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
Brother Sheik...And how long have you and I been banging on about this?....Buckley had to take on Goddard last night and got no help.
No leadership and no team culture ..thats us...
It's completely unacceptable that when one of our players gets biffed, bumped or manhandled that no-one else in the team runs in a flies the flag for them.
In every sport I've played, you rely on your teammates covering your back and you assure them that you have theirs, at Carlton, it's every man for himself and the opposition clubs know it too !!
Starts with the coach
Thing is once you've had a pile of coaches and the same things keep happening you have to look elsewhere too.
Jim,
that may well be true, but if so, why sack the coach ? Why not sack the players etc who may be the central cause of the bad culture ? Why bring in a new coach and pay him big $$$$$$$$ when it's a non-coach problem ?
this is where the hierarchy fail to see where the list it at. Contracting MM only tells me they endorsed the list and got it wrong
they need to go - sooner the better
I don't mean to offend anyone, particularly given its so soon after such a deflating loss, but how anyone can come up with the conclusion that we have the personnel required to be a genuine finals contender, but for poor coaching, is misguided IMO. What we have is the core of side that has reached its potential, and for which that potential is now being shown up as not up to the level of the serious contenders. We can't keep rating our potential on the basis of what it was 3 years ago, That potential was simply that -potential, but its come to its fruition and its simply not adequate to compete with some sides. Doesn't matter who the coach is.
I don't mean to offend anyone, particularly given its so soon after such a deflating loss, but how anyone can come up with the conclusion that we have the personnel required to be a genuine finals contender, but for poor coaching, is misguided IMO. What we have is the core of side that has reached its potential, and for which that potential is now being shown up as not up to the level of the serious contenders. We can't keep rating our potential on the basis of what it was 3 years ago, That potential was simply that -potential, but its come to its fruition and its simply not adequate to compete with some sides. Doesn't matter who the coach is.
Don't think you offended anyone. We are seeing the fruits of years of poor decisions in most areas of our club right in front of us now.
What are the chances of Goddard copping a fine for " simulation" ??
Touhy shoved him in the chest and he went straight for his jaw(ala Waite last week).....not even a mention of this from the commentators. makes me sick!
I don't mean to offend anyone, particularly given its so soon after such a deflating loss, but how anyone can come up with the conclusion that we have the personnel required to be a genuine finals contender, but for poor coaching, is misguided IMO. What we have is the core of side that has reached its potential, and for which that potential is now being shown up as not up to the level of the serious contenders. We can't keep rating our potential on the basis of what it was 3 years ago, That potential was simply that -potential, but its come to its fruition and its simply not adequate to compete with some sides. Doesn't matter who the coach is.
You dont offend me DU...been saying it for years that this list will take us nowhere....you have a crap list with a coach stuck in the past and who is teaching a gameplan that our lowly skilled players cannot play and you get results like last night.....
Mossie, Sheik and others are right ..we need to start fresh and wipe out the admin/board and playing list.....
We will get better, but when you consider that our best player of the last few years (outside of Judd) was acquired through mishap rather than intent, you realise just how poor our infield thinking has been (If you recall Ratts preference for the Fev trade was NOT Hendo). You reap in future what you plant today. The level of quality of our current side was planted years ago,
What are the chances of Goddard copping a fine for " simulation" ??
Touhy shoved him in the chest and he went straight for his jaw(ala Waite last week).....not even a mention of this from the commentators. makes me sick!
I have to say I F&*^ HATE THAT GUY. arrogant &*^% mouthing off at Bucks last night.
The level of quality of our current side was planted years ago,
So when MM said last year there would be wholesale changes to the list, why did this fail to materialise? If he was blocked by the board then we need a spill ASAP. If he was speaking $hit he needs to be shown the door.
I don't mean to offend anyone, particularly given its so soon after such a deflating loss, but how anyone can come up with the conclusion that we have the personnel required to be a genuine finals contender, but for poor coaching, is misguided IMO. What we have is the core of side that has reached its potential, and for which that potential is now being shown up as not up to the level of the serious contenders. We can't keep rating our potential on the basis of what it was 3 years ago, That potential was simply that -potential, but its come to its fruition and its simply not adequate to compete with some sides. Doesn't matter who the coach is.
You dont offend me DU...been saying it for years that this list will take us nowhere....you have a crap list with a coach stuck in the past and who is teaching a gameplan that our lowly skilled players cannot play and you get results like last night.....
Mossie, Sheik and others are right ..we need to start fresh and wipe out the admin/board and playing list.....
While not a premiership list the list has got us to finals 4 of the last 5 years BUT it doesn't work hard enough. So in effect your correct in what you're saying. We do need to start fresh all the way from the top (eg Board) down to properly sort our culture.
Some blokes aren't good enough, game plan doesn't suit us but the playing list list probably needs a medium re-build more than a full one. Enough to increasing the standard as well as an attitude change.
The level of quality of our current side was planted years ago,
So when MM said last year there would be wholesale changes to the list, why did this fail to materialise? If he was blocked by the board then we need a spill ASAP. If he was speaking $hit he needs to be shown the door.
Clearly an error of Judgement, but lets face it, he saw less of our side than we did and we all knew we weren't as good as some media scribes were painting us to be. In any case that is a separate issue and capitalising on it to strengthen an argument because of dislike of the person is pointless. The fact is we farrrked up before his arrival and the wheels were already set in motion.
Our midfield would not work in an iron lung - that's where the changes need to start, and bl00dy soon.
Our midfield would not work in an iron lung - that's where the changes need to start, and bl00dy soon.
It resembles what it was pre Judd. Judd masked the lack of quality in that area of the ground. The countless drafts since Judds arrival have failed to address it.
I don't mean to offend anyone, particularly given its so soon after such a deflating loss, but how anyone can come up with the conclusion that we have the personnel required to be a genuine finals contender, but for poor coaching, is misguided IMO. What we have is the core of side that has reached its potential, and for which that potential is now being shown up as not up to the level of the serious contenders. We can't keep rating our potential on the basis of what it was 3 years ago, That potential was simply that -potential, but its come to its fruition and its simply not adequate to compete with some sides. Doesn't matter who the coach is.
You dont offend me DU...been saying it for years that this list will take us nowhere....you have a crap list with a coach stuck in the past and who is teaching a gameplan that our lowly skilled players cannot play and you get results like last night.....
Mossie, Sheik and others are right ..we need to start fresh and wipe out the admin/board and playing list.....
While not a premiership list the list has got us to finals 4 of the last 5 years BUT it doesn't work hard enough. So in effect your correct in what you're saying. We do need to start fresh all the way from the top (eg Board) down to properly sort our culture.
Some blokes aren't good enough, game plan doesn't suit us but the playing list list probably needs a medium re-build more than a full one. Enough to increasing the standard as well as an attitude change.
Jim, what's your idea of a "medium" player rebuild, in percentage terms ? 10% of the list, 20% etc.
Not unlike the Kreuzer statement about playing forward, what is happening to Everitt is the perfect example of where our MC and coaches are going wrong.
Everitt come to us having made a niche for himself at the Swans with his best games played as an attacking hard running wingmen.
Everitt spent the bulk of Sunday night on the full back line!
There are plenty of other cases.
- Hendo all over the shop.
- Jammo from fullback to full forward.
- Rowe a KPD, KPF and ruckmen.
- White HBF, HFF, Wing.
- Gibbs mostly everywhere except on the ball!
Our game plan must read like this;
You go there and stop him, you go there and stop him, you go there and stop him
You go there and stop him, you go there and stop him, you go there and stop him
You go there and stop him, you go there and stop him, you go there and stop him
You go there and stop him, you go there and stop him, you go there and stop him
You go there and stop him, you go there and stop him, you go there and stop him
You go there and stop him, you go there and stop him, you go there and stop him
You go there and stop him, you go there and stop him
You kick goals
(Sub) You wait here until the result is out of reach and then go there and stop him!
Where is the balance?
We have 1st Rnd draft picks who can clearly play football, but they have been micro-managed into oblivion!
Dont know if I agree with that assessment LP.
Our lack of balance in the team selected meant that last night we were completely mismatched all over the backline.
Everitt actually started on Goddard, and he got dragged into the last line of defense, where Goddard was tearing him a new one.
Add that to the fact that we got creamed without the ball, and when we did get it, we turned it over at will, it resulted in our entire team being stuck in our defensive third of the ground.
I don't mean to offend anyone, particularly given its so soon after such a deflating loss, but how anyone can come up with the conclusion that we have the personnel required to be a genuine finals contender, but for poor coaching, is misguided IMO. What we have is the core of side that has reached its potential, and for which that potential is now being shown up as not up to the level of the serious contenders. We can't keep rating our potential on the basis of what it was 3 years ago, That potential was simply that -potential, but its come to its fruition and its simply not adequate to compete with some sides. Doesn't matter who the coach is.
You dont offend me DU...been saying it for years that this list will take us nowhere....you have a crap list with a coach stuck in the past and who is teaching a gameplan that our lowly skilled players cannot play and you get results like last night.....
Mossie, Sheik and others are right ..we need to start fresh and wipe out the admin/board and playing list.....
While not a premiership list the list has got us to finals 4 of the last 5 years BUT it doesn't work hard enough. So in effect your correct in what you're saying. We do need to start fresh all the way from the top (eg Board) down to properly sort our culture.
Some blokes aren't good enough, game plan doesn't suit us but the playing list list probably needs a medium re-build more than a full one. Enough to increasing the standard as well as an attitude change.
Jim, what's your idea of a "medium" player rebuild, in percentage terms ? 10% of the list, 20% etc.
We have good players but the average ones are of a similar type. For example we have Curnow, Bell, Robbo, Ellard, McLean in the midfield. Too similar in type, not quick. You need some and a back up of good , hard foot soldiers but that's too many of the one type. Curnow and Bell are the two you'd play, you'd replace the rest with different types over time. So it's more about the areas are letting us down and re-building those areas than a complete re-build.
You'd talk hard to Frawley to get him over and tell Gibbs he's welcome to go back to SA. The money you save there you use to shore up the defence with Frawley That allows Henderson to go forward. Gibbs is class but one of those that tends to cruise too much.
Just an example.
Add that to the fact that we got creamed without the ball, and when we did get it, we turned it over at will, it resulted in our entire team being stuck in our defensive third of the ground.
To get out of the back line you must have a target for the ball and some form of transport to get it there. The likes of Garlett and Ellard are not targets, and blokes like Bell and Robbo won't get it there anyway!
There's only one reason for our current state and it's the abysmal recruiting by the club in the last decade.
The number one picks, Yarran, Judd and Thomas are all very good players and Jamison as a rookie was a good get but the only half decent player we've taken outside the top 10 in the ND in the last decade is Robbo and he's as rough as guts.
It's been a litany of failure, and now we just don't have the cattle.
It's quite ironic that the people that were bemoaning Ratten's inability to get a gun side into a GF are the same ones now saying we don't have the cattle. :))
There's only one reason for our current state and it's the abysmal recruiting by the club in the last decade.
The number one picks, Yarran, Judd and Thomas are all very good players and Jamison as a rookie was a good get but the only half decent player we've taken outside the top 10 in the ND in the last decade is Robbo and he's as rough as guts.
It's been a litany of failure, and now we just don't have the cattle.
This.
So, we've blamed the coach, the players, the board, recruitment etc. for last night's tragedy. But, as has been mentioned, i largely believe our failure is due to the club's CULTURE.
Did anyone see how relaxed Bomber T was at half time!? Sure his team was 60+points up, but he was confident of his players; and rightly so.
I believe (call me optimistic/delusional) that we have a great list on paper. Maybe not GF material, but certainly a finals contender! But we lack belief. The supporters lack belief, our players lack belief, our coach always seems frazzled and in dis-belief, our friggin CEO lacks belief in our club and publicly stated so last week!!
Our slogan last year was #BELIEVE. Maybe we need to stop saying and actually doing! When this mindset sinks into EVERYONE'S heads then attack will improve, skill will improve, wins will come and we will be proud to be a part of such a great and historical club.
It's quite ironic that the people that were bemoaning Ratten's inability to get a gun side into a GF are the same ones now saying we don't have the cattle. :))
If you're referring to me PI2C I don't recall ever saying that Ratten had a gun side.
The gravest mistake the club made in recent times was sacking a proven coach in 2007 and appointing someone from the 2nd division of the Eastern Districts league with virtually no senior experience.
It has ended in tears, just as some of us knew that it would.
It's quite ironic that the people that were bemoaning Ratten's inability to get a gun side into a GF are the same ones now saying we don't have the cattle. :))
If you're referring to me PI2C I don't recall ever saying that Ratten had a gun side.
The gravest mistake the club made in recent times was sacking a proven coach in 2007 and appointing someone from the 2nd division of the Eastern Districts league with virtually no senior experience.
It has ended in tears, just as some of us knew that it would.
You're kidding about Pagan aren't you. Proven? Proven to get us 2 spoons. It's where the bad culture started as we wouldn't try for him. Unfortunately it becomes habit. The coach from the 2nd division of the EDL produced far better results.
It's quite ironic that the people that were bemoaning Ratten's inability to get a gun side into a GF are the same ones now saying we don't have the cattle. :))
If you're referring to me PI2C I don't recall ever saying that Ratten had a gun side.
The gravest mistake the club made in recent times was sacking a proven coach in 2007 and appointing someone from the 2nd division of the Eastern Districts league with virtually no senior experience.
It has ended in tears, just as some of us knew that it would.
Nup wasn't referring to anyone in particular. But you have responded so there must be something there. Not sure where you're going with Pagan though.
Look at the first 20 minutes against Port. Now look at what we produced last night. It's up to the coach to get players playing at their best in a game plan that plays to their strengths. Pagan is too stubborn to drop his dated methodologies.
I was critical of Ratts in the end, especially after the Sydney game in his last year. We looked hopeless and I really thought it was down to him because our list was this fantastic thing that just needed to click fully into gear and a flag would be ours.
I was certainly wrong about the list and maybe at the same time harsh on Ratts in retrospect. He may well rise again to the senior coaching echelons when he completes his education at the Hawks.
There's only one reason for our current state and it's the abysmal recruiting by the club in the last decade.
The number one picks, Yarran, Judd and Thomas are all very good players and Jamison as a rookie was a good get but the only half decent player we've taken outside the top 10 in the ND in the last decade is Robbo and he's as rough as guts.
It's been a litany of failure, and now we just don't have the cattle.
This.
Go back and have a look at 2005 draft onwards. You will find that there aren't too many players that we would have taken instead of what we picked at the time. Probably, the only one would be the selection of Watson at 20 ahead of, say, Carlisle at 24. It's our player development that is lacking.
There's only one reason for our current state and it's the abysmal recruiting by the club in the last decade.
The number one picks, Yarran, Judd and Thomas are all very good players and Jamison as a rookie was a good get but the only half decent player we've taken outside the top 10 in the ND in the last decade is Robbo and he's as rough as guts.
It's been a litany of failure, and now we just don't have the cattle.
This.
Go back and have a look at 2005 draft onwards. You will find that there aren't too many players that we would have taken instead of what we picked at the time. Probably, the only one would be the selection of Watson at 20 ahead of, say, Carlisle at 24. It's our player development that is lacking.
You cant develop rubbish......the footy world knows our recruiting is rubbish,and we are a laughing stock in terms of list management.
I give development about a 25% effect on where we are now, Hughes/Rodgers/Luke Williams...its a farce and has been for years...
It's quite ironic that the people that were bemoaning Ratten's inability to get a gun side into a GF are the same ones now saying we don't have the cattle. :))
If you're referring to me PI2C I don't recall ever saying that Ratten had a gun side.
The gravest mistake the club made in recent times was sacking a proven coach in 2007 and appointing someone from the 2nd division of the Eastern Districts league with virtually no senior experience.
It has ended in tears, just as some of us knew that it would.
You're kidding about Pagan aren't you. Proven? Proven to get us 2 spoons. It's where the bad culture started as we wouldn't try for him. Unfortunately it becomes habit. The coach from the 2nd division of the EDL produced far better results.
The comparison is ridiculous.
Pagan delisted 17 players at the end of his first season and only Simon Fletcher was picked up, and he played about half a dozen games for Richmond.
That's how bad our list was and we had no draft picks or money, anyone who expected other than wooden spoons back then was living in a fool's paradise.
The bad culture started long before Pagan came to Carlton, we paid a wooden spoon team $2 million over the salary cap remember, but the quick fix mentality has persisted, first by sacking Pagan and now with Malthouse.
The best we can hope for is that the club has learned from its mistakes and that Malthouse is given the time and resources to do the job, but the damage has been so extensive that it will be a long and painful process and I don't think the club or supporters have the bottle for it.
Go back and have a look at 2005 draft onwards. You will find that there aren't too many players that we would have taken instead of what we picked at the time. Probably, the only one would be the selection of Watson at 20 ahead of, say, Carlisle at 24. It's our player development that is lacking.
Other clubs did fine out of the drafts so I don't really get what you mean.
There's only one reason for our current state and it's the abysmal recruiting by the club in the last decade.
The number one picks, Yarran, Judd and Thomas are all very good players and Jamison as a rookie was a good get but the only half decent player we've taken outside the top 10 in the ND in the last decade is Robbo and he's as rough as guts.
It's been a litany of failure, and now we just don't have the cattle.
This.
Go back and have a look at 2005 draft onwards. You will find that there aren't too many players that we would have taken instead of what we picked at the time. Probably, the only one would be the selection of Watson at 20 ahead of, say, Carlisle at 24. It's our player development that is lacking.
North Melbourne drafted their current Captain at pick 43 in 2005, we took Paul Bower at pick 20 and Jake Edwards at 36.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but the number of duds we've drafted in the last ten years just can't be a fluke.
@B4L
How can you possibly compare the two sides. Pagan at least had some excuse, Milkshake has none. He has plenty to work with.
It was certainly the worst loss I’ve been involved in,
Jamo
Coming from a bloke who has seen two other coaches and played in a much weaker squad than the one last night and plenty of very ugly losses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-defender-michael-jamison-says-blues-have-let-down-club-and-supporters-with-loss/story-fni5f5nx-1226876610265
It was certainly the worst loss I’ve been involved in,
Jamo
Coming from a bloke who has seen two other coaches and played in a much weaker squad than the one last night and plenty of very ugly losses.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-defender-michael-jamison-says-blues-have-let-down-club-and-supporters-with-loss/story-fni5f5nx-1226876610265
Thats not really surprising given that the backbone of the current squad has entered the last phase of footy life. It will get worse before it gets better.
In fairness to Jamo, he joined our seniors at the start of Ratten. Back then, Fev used to drag us into games by himself.
So it probably was the worst loss he has played in.
On the flipside its not the worst loss we have seen since 2006. I do recall back when the MCG was being redeveloped we played Melbourne on a saturday or sunday afternoon, and the damage was that bad, we left by half time.
I would have done the same yesterday but I kep waiting for something to get better. I should have just gone home at half time.
It was 2004 the Melbourne game I think I remember it well I too left at half time.
If I cared I would have shed a tear last night, just insipid play by us.
How about the 15m kicks that were continually picked off by the peptides? Just appalling skills and no heart.
I'ts a good thing footy is way down on my list of priorities nowadays.
In fairness to Jamo, he joined our seniors at the start of Ratten. Back then, Fev used to drag us into games by himself.
So it probably was the worst loss he has played in.
On the flipside its not the worst loss we have seen since 2006. I do recall back when the MCG was being redeveloped we played Melbourne on a saturday or sunday afternoon, and the damage was that bad, we left by half time.
I would have done the same yesterday but I kep waiting for something to get better. I should have just gone home at half time.
I thought Jamos comments on where the side is at were encouraging and what you would hope from a leader.
It was 2004 the Melbourne game I think I remember it well I too left at half time.
Yep maybe it was 2004... Jeff Farmer tore us a new one by himself, and we had no answers for him, and Fev had "one of those days".
@B4L
How can you possibly compare the two sides. Pagan at least had some excuse, Milkshake has none. He has plenty to work with.
We are deluded if we think the current crop is a strong list PI2C, especially minus Kreuzer and Judd.
You are only as good as your weakest six.
Was Goddard cited for staging? Or is this another AFL rule that is only applied to the CFC?