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Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #75 –
Thomas played half back  re bounder when he started to play better so I would mark him down as the degree of difficulty is way less when you play without much responsibility and just get easy kicks....Mick looked after him...
 

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #76 –
For me some relative assessment is required to make sense of this;

If Gibbs or Murphy had had the same season there is no way they would have finished 10th and we'd be asking for trade options on both of them!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #77 –
He didn't get any easy kicks, he runs his ar$e off.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #78 –
Quote from: BrizzyBlue on
GIBBS 108
Murphy 80
Simpson 76
Yarran 72
Rowe 52
Jamison 47
Everitt 46
Judd 46
Docherty 44
Thomas 4

A number of trends I note with interest:
[1] A few of last year's serious underachievers have REALLY improved significantly in 2014. Including the winner. That is something I consider as positive.
[2] We made 3 trade type deals at the end of 2013: Everitt, Docherty and Thomas. All 3 have made it into the top 10 in their first season. Kudos there is obvious to the people who put these deals together.
[3] Malthouse and the match committee obviously had specific goals for certain players. I don't know what Thomas' were, but he clearly fulfilled them. There is still a lot to improve upon, but it appears a hopeful sign.
[4] No key forwards made the top 10, yet our 2 key defenders (and 1 smaller defender - Yazz) did. For our supposed Achilles' Heel, it appears the hierarchy is happy as to where the defence is going.
[5] With the efforts of Curnow and Judd (and Carrots to a lesser extent), it appears that the way the guys who came back from injury went was recognised. One of the implications would be that Judd wold have given the B & F a serious shake had he bit fit for the season. Not bad for a guy who was thinking of retiring.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #79 –
Please note that I'm not saying that I think Thomas has a good season overall. I think he had a pretty poor one, and I'm sure both the coaching staff and he, himself would say the same thing.

I'm saying that he's a quality player who did enough good things to poll a few votes here and there. He didn't win the B&F, he finished middle of the road and scraped into the top 10. That isn't good enough for what we're paying him and certainly isn't what we recruited him for.

I'm just saying that 10th was probably about right for him based on his performances. He's a gun player who played a couple of great games, a few good games, a few above average games, and a bunch of poorer games. Assuming he polled votes in his great, good, and above average games, then finishing where he did makes sense. He wasn't our worst player across the season, by any means. Far from it, really.

You guys are getting carried away with what a top 10 finish means to a player like Daisy Thomas. It doesn't imply a pass mark on the season for him. Finishing 10th is way, way below where he should have finished if he'd played to the best of his ability across the whole season. If he finishes 10th next season then I'll be one of the first screaming for his blood. It's not good enough for an elite player on elite player dollars.

That still doesn't make it any less of an accurate reflection on his 2014 season, though.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #80 –
If Thomas was set goals and achieved them in 2014 then bar was set low IMO......700k for what he delivered wasnt a great investment and I remain unconvinced about his top 10 finish in the B&F. We will learn more next season when I expect him to start delivering the returns we are paying him for...

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #81 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
He didn't get any easy kicks, he runs his ar$e off.

For half a season he ran his ar5e off but didn't get anywhere, votes for making an effort then!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #82 –
@nath his form up to being moved to half back was woeful. His move to half back got him more of the ball but I would not be happy if that is what he produces next year. That was the absolute minimum required output. He needs to win is big games.

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #83 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime on
@nath his form up to being moved to half back was woeful. His move to half back got him more of the ball but I would not be happy if that is what he produces next year. That was the absolute minimum required output. He needs to win is big games.

I couldn't agree more and am pretty sure I've said that in every post that I've made about it so far haha.

All I keep saying is that he played enough good footy to poll a few votes across the whole season. You don't play a good, consistent season of elite football and finish 10th in the club best and fairest.

He's a gun footballer who had an ordinary season so had an ordinary placing in the club best and fairest. I don't get what everyone is getting up in arms about, really. If he'd finished in the top 3 on the back of that season, I'd be the first one jumping up and down but he didn't do that at all.

He probably got most of his votes against Freo and GC at the end of the season. They were both close to BOG games.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #84 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
If Thomas was set goals and achieved them in 2014 then bar was set low IMO......700k for what he delivered wasnt a great investment and I remain unconvinced about his top 10 finish in the B&F. We will learn more next season when I expect him to start delivering the returns we are paying him for...

Agree.

The bar would have been set low.  One of his achievements would have been to survive a full season relatively unscathed given the last time he achieved that would have been 2011/12ish.

20+ matches is a massive feather in his cap moving forward.  From all reports he was cooked and would never be fully fit ever again.  That looks less likely now, but still a possibility.
That being said, a second season like this one would make his recruitment a disaster, unless we truly have lots of cap space free, and had to spend it somewhere, and decided to recruit Daisy.

All in all its not bad.  Another thing that is not being considered, is that Daisy played in a fair few different roles for us this year.  Between half back flank, and forward pocket, wing and the occasional run on the ball.  That wouldnt assist a lot of players.

For everyone who is questioning it, you sort of get your answer in the names that finished just ahead of him.  Docherty missed a fair chunk of the season and yet out voted him.  Judd missed almost half the year and out voted him.  Even Everitt missed a good 4+ matches and he still polled better.  There were enough good games (like the West Coach and Freo matches) that would have gotten Daisy into the votes.  Sure, there were enough that would have hurt him, but he played more footy than both Docherty and Judd yet still finished behind them in the B+F.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #85 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
If Thomas was set goals and achieved them in 2014 then bar was set low IMO......700k for what he delivered wasnt a great investment and I remain unconvinced about his top 10 finish in the B&F. We will learn more next season when I expect him to start delivering the returns we are paying him for...

Agree.

The bar would have been set low.  One of his achievements would have been to survive a full season relatively unscathed given the last time he achieved that would have been 2011/12ish.

20+ matches is a massive feather in his cap moving forward.  From all reports he was cooked and would never be fully fit ever again.  That looks less likely now, but still a possibility.
That being said, a second season like this one would make his recruitment a disaster, unless we truly have lots of cap space free, and had to spend it somewhere, and decided to recruit Daisy.

All in all its not bad.  Another thing that is not being considered, is that Daisy played in a fair few different roles for us this year.  Between half back flank, and forward pocket, wing and the occasional run on the ball.  That wouldnt assist a lot of players.

For everyone who is questioning it, you sort of get your answer in the names that finished just ahead of him.  Docherty missed a fair chunk of the season and yet out voted him.  Judd missed almost half the year and out voted him.  Even Everitt missed a good 4+ matches and he still polled better.  There were enough good games (like the West Coach and Freo matches) that would have gotten Daisy into the votes.  Sure, there were enough that would have hurt him, but he played more footy than both Docherty and Judd yet still finished behind them in the B+F.

^^ this...

Hopefully someone else saying it other than me makes it clearer to everyone else haha
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #86 –
as the prophet said
Quote
[1] A few of last year's serious underachievers have REALLY improved significantly in 2014. Including the winner. That is something I consider as positive.
[2] We made 3 trade type deals at the end of 2013: Everitt, Docherty and Thomas. All 3 have made it into the top 10 in their first season. Kudos there is obvious to the people who put these deals together.
These are seriously good points
To which I would add Sam Rowe 5th. !!!
How many times has Sam been written off!
Buying MickM is paying off.
Big Time   !!!

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #87 –
Quote from: Phillipwh on
as the prophet said
Quote
[1] A few of last year's serious underachievers have REALLY improved significantly in 2014. Including the winner. That is something I consider as positive.
[2] We made 3 trade type deals at the end of 2013: Everitt, Docherty and Thomas. All 3 have made it into the top 10 in their first season. Kudos there is obvious to the people who put these deals together.
These are seriously good points
To which I would add Sam Rowe 5th. !!!
How many times has Sam been written off!
Buying MickM is paying off.
Big Time   !!!

Sam is a good news story. Getting over cancer and then regaining fitness is no small feat let alone playing some good footy. But MickM need a to make us climb the ladder, not change where the also rans finished in the b&f. That's where the pay off is.

Re: Carlton B & F

Reply #88 –
Well done Gibbs and the other.

Rapt fro Yarran to finish 4th. More to come from this bloke!

Equally rapt for Rowe to finish 5th (called it!!!). he thoroughly deserves it!

Everitt and Docherty schrewd pick ups by MM and co, hopefully we go again this trade period!