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Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #210
Our players got a heap of the ball but Collingwood's gameplan is kryptonite to ours. Like the 1993 grand final we were out coached.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #211
I read an article today highlighting how unfair the draw is  in such a close season. We played three finalists twice, tigers played zero. Brisbane, Fremantle, Collingwood  Geelong and Sydney only played one. The Cats also played North and West Coast twice.

 
I've been writing about this for well over a decade now.

Found various ways to make it fairer than our current system. Nobody wants a bar of it because.....tradition....or some equally poor reasoning.

17 rounds doesn't work. You can't get even home and away matches, you could get a very hard draw one year and a very easy draw the next and repeat. The AFL don't get enough games, thus get enough money, thus the players need to take a pay cut etc.

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #212
We have to get behind those two but at the same time kick the leaders right up the arse for the way we were defensively set up in that last play. That behind the goals vision was something horrendous. Weitering, as a leader, should have been sorting that defence positioning. Needed two more behind the ball once it was a 5 point margin.

I thought exactly the same thing, re Weiters, which was a worry. Pretty sure had Doc been down back he'd have been barking instructions.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #213
No more excuses or living in denial, we had the Pies on toast at 3/4 time and choked like a baby bird with a tennis ball stuck in its throat because we knew they had that reputation for never say die and once they got that sniff of Navy Blue Blood they just wouldnt let up and kept coming. Good players goofed off, lost contests they shouldnt, leaders didnt lead and we let a less talented team torture us with the result.
Its either builds resolve or we become the new Nthmond and we have to look at the list and work out who isnt taking us to the next level and act. We had a chance to give players finals experience this season and maybe even win one but we ballsed up that opportunity which is a decent setback imho when you are trying to build a foundation for sustained success.
Pratty is right to say we cant assume anything and we cant trust this football club and its players because they dont have any runs on the board in that regard.
I would be all over the list and making changes where appropriate and not adopting a set and forget attitude like some seem to want, imo there are plenty of players under the microscope and we dont want them feeling safe and comfortable to the point where they dont want to improve. 2022 Better,  but still disappointing and as Voss said we need standards driven higher.....

EB all due respect, the Ninethmond tag was given to Richmond after years of finishing 9th, we are no where near  Ninethond. It was an unforgivable and brutal end to the season, no question. But there is very much to like and we will bounce back next year. I will almost bet every penny I own that what happened the last two weeks will not be repeated by a Carlton side under Voss's watch.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #214
No more excuses or living in denial, we had the Pies on toast at 3/4 time and choked like a baby bird with a tennis ball stuck in its throat because we knew they had that reputation for never say die and once they got that sniff of Navy Blue Blood they just wouldnt let up and kept coming. Good players goofed off, lost contests they shouldnt, leaders didnt lead and we let a less talented team torture us with the result.
Its either builds resolve or we become the new Nthmond and we have to look at the list and work out who isnt taking us to the next level and act. We had a chance to give players finals experience this season and maybe even win one but we ballsed up that opportunity which is a decent setback imho when you are trying to build a foundation for sustained success.
Pratty is right to say we cant assume anything and we cant trust this football club and its players because they dont have any runs on the board in that regard.
I would be all over the list and making changes where appropriate and not adopting a set and forget attitude like some seem to want, imo there are plenty of players under the microscope and we dont want them feeling safe and comfortable to the point where they dont want to improve. 2022 Better,  but still disappointing and as Voss said we need standards driven higher.....


Understand your perspective, EB1 and it sure is fair enough. We've had enough false dawns to break the most optimistic of hearts.

However...

Had we nailed at least one of those early final qtr shots against Rottingwood, we probably would have had the confidence to go on with the job. Lesson: efficiency, composure, leadership and persistence.

Those final two games were as close to finals pressure as you could get in a H&A season. The boys will have learnt heaps from both games, especially against the Dagpies.

Throughout the season we barely came close to having the chance to select from our best 25. Guys who came in to plug gaps, performed, in the main, admirably... and got valuable experience. Most importantly, our game plan held up against the best, just didn't have the cattle or experience to fulfill it for longer... even a coupla minutes!

The one lingering weakness (no doubt contributed to, to a degree, by what I mentioned above), and has been for years, is folding under real or perceived pressure/having our strengths challenged. This must be a focus for a pre season - how to react to challenge/heat/pressure with delight, and meet it then answer it with even more ruthlessness, composure and efficiency. Fierce and smart response beats 'into my shell' reaction every day of the week.




Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #215
No more excuses or living in denial, we had the Pies on toast at 3/4 time and choked like a baby bird with a tennis ball stuck in its throat because we knew they had that reputation for never say die and once they got that sniff of Navy Blue Blood they just wouldnt let up and kept coming. Good players goofed off, lost contests they shouldnt, leaders didnt lead and we let a less talented team torture us with the result.
Its either builds resolve or we become the new Nthmond and we have to look at the list and work out who isnt taking us to the next level and act. We had a chance to give players finals experience this season and maybe even win one but we ballsed up that opportunity which is a decent setback imho when you are trying to build a foundation for sustained success.
Pratty is right to say we cant assume anything and we cant trust this football club and its players because they dont have any runs on the board in that regard.
I would be all over the list and making changes where appropriate and not adopting a set and forget attitude like some seem to want, imo there are plenty of players under the microscope and we dont want them feeling safe and comfortable to the point where they dont want to improve. 2022 Better,  but still disappointing and as Voss said we need standards driven higher.....

I don’t agree!

I watched the game with five Collingwood supporters and they all agreed that we outplayed them after quarter time.  We lost because we didn’t convert our forward 50 entries, particularly in the last quarter.

As they say, bad kicking is bad football and our kicking for goal in the last quarter was as bad as it gets.  What we needed was Eddie Betts out there to settle the nerves and ensure that we converted at least half of our shots at goal.

I’m not blaming Charlie for the loss, but if he had taken 30 seconds off the clock and nailed what was a fairly simple shot at goal, this discussion wouldn’t be happening.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #216
I don’t agree!

I watched the game with five Collingwood supporters and they all agreed that we outplayed them after quarter time.  We lost because we didn’t convert our forward 50 entries, particularly in the last quarter.

As they say, bad kicking is bad football and our kicking for goal in the last quarter was as bad as it gets.  What we needed was Eddie Betts out there to settle the nerves and ensure that we converted at least half of our shots at goal.

I’m not blaming Charlie for the loss, but if he had taken 30 seconds off the clock and nailed what was a fairly simple shot at goal, this discussion wouldn’t be happening.
You can say that again!
The last person I have trusted with the ball having a shot on goal was Fev.
We have for a long time been poor converters.
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #217
I don’t agree!

I watched the game with five Collingwood supporters and they all agreed that we outplayed them after quarter time.  We lost because we didn’t convert our forward 50 entries, particularly in the last quarter.

As they say, bad kicking is bad football and our kicking for goal in the last quarter was as bad as it gets.  What we needed was Eddie Betts out there to settle the nerves and ensure that we converted at least half of our shots at goal.

I’m not blaming Charlie for the loss, but if he had taken 30 seconds off the clock and nailed what was a fairly simple shot at goal, this discussion wouldn’t be happening.

The example you have given of Charlie shows part of our forward line problem.  Had it been Durdin and not Charlie who made that mistake we would be excusing him on the basis he was young and relatively inexperienced and no doubt would learn a valuable lesson.

Charlie however seems to have had a maturity bypass and seems to place  greater value on instant, emotional decisions - just as he has always done.  It looks great when he takes a mark, wheels around and kicks a 50 metre goal,  but unless he can develop the ability to slow down and assess the situation before kicking then he will be just wasting so much talent.


Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #218
The example you have given of Charlie shows part of our forward line problem.  Had it been Durdin and not Charlie who made that mistake we would be excusing him on the basis he was young and relatively inexperienced and no doubt would learn a valuable lesson.

Charlie however seems to have had a maturity bypass and seems to place  greater value on instant, emotional decisions - just as he has always done.  It looks great when he takes a mark, wheels around and kicks a 50 metre goal,  but unless he can develop the ability to slow down and assess the situation before kicking then he will be just wasting so much talent.


Agree, Charlie needs to play the percentages in the big moments.
Happy he won the Coleman but he can improve his own effectiveness and bring other players into the game more.
I reckon if you looked at the stats that Hawkins and Cameron would have a fair share of assists to add to their goals kicked. Like to see Charlie and Harry show a bit more lateral thinking sometimes and set other players up more, I'm sure they will learn to do that more with experience and some strong coaching from Ash Hansen in particular.

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #219
We have to be proud of the effort.

I read an article today highlighting how unfair the draw is  in such a close season. We played three finalists twice, tigers played zero. Brisbane, Fremantle, Collingwood  Geelong and Sydney only played one. The Cats also played North and West Coast twice.

 

I read that too. I thought there were so called equalisation mechanisms in place. I think it worked by having a certain draw based on previous finishing position.

Anyways.. it's just another inequity the AFL deliver
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #220
We ran out of steam in the last quarter. Right in front of me live at the ground I could see it happening. A few crucial runs that we didn’t get close to.

People have forgotten - we had Kennedy, Hewitt and Walsh out of our midfield. We had a sore Saad and an equally sore Crippa after that knock with JSOS, running around. Add in a Weiters who hasn’t been the same since his injury, a ZWilliams who hasn’t played for how many months…?

Add in some wonky crap umpiring calls gifting them a goal and taking a certain one from us.

And it’s a miracle we were in the position we were in at 3/4 time.

The sting has gone for me of this game. We played our guts out under duress and just missed out on a finals spot. We were never going to make a dent come finals time, dragging injured players to the finish line. The last two games has given us what we need. Lessons to be learned. We have the players, just need to harden them up, keep them together and fit and healthy and go again next year with more depth, more experience, more hunger 💪🏼

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #221
We ran out of steam in the last quarter. Right in front of me live at the ground I could see it happening. A few crucial runs that we didn’t get close to.

People have forgotten - we had Kennedy, Hewitt and Walsh out of our midfield. We had a sore Saad and an equally sore Crippa after that knock with JSOS, running around. Add in a Weiters who hasn’t been the same since his injury, a ZWilliams who hasn’t played for how many months…?

Add in some wonky crap umpiring calls gifting them a goal and taking a certain one from us.

And it’s a miracle we were in the position we were in at 3/4 time.

The sting has gone for me of this game. We played our guts out under duress and just missed out on a finals spot. We were never going to make a dent come finals time, dragging injured players to the finish line. The last two games has given us what we need. Lessons to be learned. We have the players, just need to harden them up, keep them together and fit and healthy and go again next year with more depth, more experience, more hunger 💪🏼

Actually, not choke, go on in the last qtr, make the 8 and I reckon we beat Brisbane, who are awful in September, and we'd then likely play the Pies again. Could well have been a Prelim.

Unreal to think with just 6 min to go we led by 17pts.

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #222
I read that too. I thought there were so called equalisation mechanisms in place. I think it worked by having a certain draw based on previous finishing position.

Anyways.. it's just another inequity the AFL deliver

3 different sides in the 8 to last year, Freo, Collingwood and Richmond, although you'd have a fair idea the latter, a triple premiership team, would make it. They do the draw based on the previous year, but it can change so much 12 months later.

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #223
I thought exactly the same thing, re Weiters, which was a worry. Pretty sure had Doc been down back he'd have been barking instructions.

Just another example of the waterfall effect injuries can have on a team. Train and play all year with Doc's as the defensive Captain only to have him up the ground after having to shuffle the side due to midfield injuries. Not and excuse, just an observation.

Re: AFL Rd 23 2022 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #224
Just another example of the waterfall effect injuries can have on a team. Train and play all year with Doc's as the defensive Captain only to have him up the ground after having to shuffle the side due to midfield injuries. Not and excuse, just an observation.
And he did very well in the middle, such a versatile player. Having said that, the senior players MUST bark the instructions from anywhere on the ground, even the bench. MUST get better at that.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time