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Topic: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong (Read 5339 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #60
I think you're right LP.

The blokes who are being criticised for not having an impact were starved of opportunities by our inability to transition out of defence.  With the exception of Harry, we didn't have a marking target or even someone who could halve a contest when we were forced to kick long.  Having two newbies at the coalface probably didn't help either (not that I think Hollands and Cowan shouldn't have played).  They'll be better for the experience and a few tweaks to our structure and transition should mean more opportunities for our forwards.

Disagree on that one, David. Quality small forwards create opportunities from limited opportunities. If they rely on silver platter service from up the field we are in strife. Owies and Martin were particularly disappointing as is too often the case. Small Durds is a type who creates goals from nothing, as does Motlop.

I cut Fisher some slack as he is being played as something of a square peg in a round hole... his best is seen on the ball. He aint a small forward no matter how hard we try to make him one. Likewise, JSOS is cut some slack as he's not being given the opportunity to ply his craft in his best suited position.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #61
I dont think Fish deserves to be cut any slack tbh. We had to bring in Hewett and Cerra because Fish didnt cut the mustard in the midfield. I think he is our best small forward albeit very flaky and inconsistent.
I dont think we could afford to depend on Fish in a grand final and we need to find or unearth players that we can depend on.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #62
Disagree on that one, David. Quality small forwards create opportunities from limited opportunities. If they rely on silver platter service from up the field we are in strife. Owies and Martin were particularly disappointing as is too often the case. Small Durds is a type who creates goals from nothing, as does Motlop.

I cut Fisher some slack as he is being played as something of a square peg in a round hole... his best is seen on the ball. He aint a small forward no matter how hard we try to make him one. Likewise, JSOS is cut some slack as he's not being given the opportunity to ply his craft in his best suited position.

45 inside 50s to 66 Shane.  Our forwards deserve credit for exceptional efficiency from very limited opportunities.  Similarly, they can’t really be criticised for the lack of tackles inside 50 if the ball was rarely in there.

Of course, small forwards have to work up the ground and Motlop, Martin and Owies did that, but with limited impact.  I can’t say the same for Fisher and I can’t understand how a player can go for half a game without racking up one stat.  I don’t think that can be put down to following the coach’s instructions, “Whatever you do Fish, don’t touch the footy, don’t try to tackle, shepherd or spoil a marking attempt.  Just run around and stay out of everyone’s way!”

The thing with Fisher is that he’ll probably play well in the next game but not as a midfielder … let’s hope so 🤞
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #63
Yep, surely if you aren't winning the footy yourself there should be some tackles happening, at least that would prove you are chasing someone who might drop it!

This is why I like Owies over some of our other small forwards, he actually tries to force turnovers or defend a bit. He might not be as effective at tackling as players like SoJ or Cottrell but he does at least make an effort. Some of the others just seem to be fully disinterested in working hard when we aren't in possession, you can even catch them turning their back on play to jog back towards F50, that leaves the turnovers up to somebody else.

When you watch the Nthmond small forwards, first they help force the error then they instantly switch to becoming a link or a target, they just do not sit back waiting for somebody else to win the footy when it's not in Nthmond's possession.

The Cats play a bit of a different style of game and it's interesting to hear Scott's complaints about the surface, because I had to wonder if our own game was low quality on skills due to a shifting or uneven MCG surface. The Cats rely less on run and gun type linking and more heavily on forcing the turnover followed by precise feet, once they get the footy they complete F50 entries with high reliability. Surface quality can have a big impact on that if players are unstable when disposing.

We are relatively average by foot, add a bit of instability and we become pretty ordinary by comparison to other teams.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #64
Also, I want to offer an opinion for judging players and their output. 

Don't forget to look at players ToG% when judging how well they did. 

Fisher out of all the players not subbed, spent the shortest time on field.  Was there an issue with him we didn't know about?  Not to excuse his output, but 67% time on ground, means he was on for 2 and roughly 1 thirds of a quarter, which is still ample time to impact the game, but what was his role?  How did his direct opponent go? 

These are the questions I always consider when rating someones game.  I thought Owies wasnt as bad as advertised either and with a bit more luck, he would have had 2 goals instead of his one. Owies only had 70% time on ground too. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #65
Does Ed hold his place this week as a tagger/run-with role.....or does Dow come in for him?

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #66
Does Ed hold his place this week as a tagger/run-with role.....or does Dow come in for him?

I reckon Ed holds his spot and Dow could come in to replace a few others based on Thursday night's game and his (Dow's) effort in the Magoos.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #67
Does Ed hold his place this week as a tagger/run-with role.....or does Dow come in for him?
Ed was pretty quiet early, but he stepped up when the heat was on. He needs more match time, not more bench time.
Dow has probably done enough to get a go: 4 goals and lots of clearances, with at least a couple of those clearances resulting in goals. That has to make an impact.

The question about who goes out is probably more in Fisher's court, or Jack Martin's, for that matter. Both underperformed significantly. They need to step up. Dow has some runs on the board now: they need to get some too if they are to remain in the starting lineup.
To be honest, I think we play well when Fisher plays well, and having Martin fire gives us an extra dimension, but neither of them is anywhere near as consistent as we really require.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #68
Ed's is experienced, remains focussed, won't surrender no matter how bad things get, he is still an A-Grade stopper.
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #69
Ed's is experienced, remains focussed, won't surrender no matter how bad things get, he is still an A-Grade stopper.

Ed is a great stopper and seems like a great bloke, but when he kicks the footy it’s only by chance that the ball will find its way to a teammate. I don’t think we can be playing Ed Curnow and expect to push deep into the finals.

As we did with Casboult we need to move forward and inject some talent and speed into the line up.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #70
Ed is a great stopper and seems like a great bloke, but when he kicks the footy it’s only by chance that the ball will find its way to a teammate. I don’t think we can be playing Ed Curnow and expect to push deep into the finals.

As we did with Casboult we need to move forward and inject some talent and speed into the line up.

Agree.

I wonder how much having Charlie there helps Ed’s treatment.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #71
Agree.

I wonder how much having Charlie there helps Ed’s treatment.
I think its helped although Ed is in his last season imho but Im sure the club will keep him around in some role.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #72
Ed's is experienced, remains focussed, won't surrender no matter how bad things get, he is still an A-Grade stopper.

Ed’s work on Prestia in the last quarter was instrumental in us getting up for the draw.

His disposal efficiency isn’t great but that’s not uncommon for in and under players.  Of course, disposal efficiency doesn’t really mean what most punters think and many of Ed’s disposals create opportunities for teammates.

ABC radio reported concerns about a hand injury to George Hewett in the post-game and it seems that it may be more serious than first thought.  If that’s right, Dow could come in for Georgie.

“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #73
Ed’s work on Prestia in the last quarter was instrumental in us getting up for the draw.

His disposal efficiency isn’t great but that’s not uncommon for in and under players.  Of course, disposal efficiency doesn’t really mean what most punters think and many of Ed’s disposals create opportunities for teammates.

ABC radio reported concerns about a hand injury to George Hewett in the post-game and it seems that it may be more serious than first thought.  If that’s right, Dow could come in for Georgie.


We cannot afford to lose George.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #74
We cannot afford to lose George.

Yep, Paddy < Georgie
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball