Carlton Supporters Club

I've never heard anyone complain about the endless and thoroughly boring speeches, thanking of sponsors (in itself a heavily political act) etc. that accompany some games like the Grand Final, yet any hint of a Welcome To Country or similar, and all hell breaks loose.

When you take your argument to such an extreme you diminish the cause and that seems to be the very issue causing some people angst or trepidation.

I've mentioned this before on many issues not just this, extremism on any side of the debate divides never unifies. I would think the main way forward on this issue is to unify, and I'm not sure how subjecting football fans to what now seems to be a politicised event helps that resolve.

Have the debate all you like in the appropriate forum, don't lecture fans on their day off in a captive space. It would be as divisive as taking this debate into the pre-game thread.

Participants can ignore the way the wind blows on this issue, or they can keep screaming into it for all their worth, but that won't stop it and it may even make it worse! I note our notable AFL apparatchik Waleed Aly seems to have arrived at the very same conclusion, my surprise is how the "academics" ever thought this behaviour could end any other way.

You can't be told how to vote, that is entrenched in democracy, you can only be asked for support!

So you think that a Welcome To Country Ceremony at a football match is :

a. en extremist position.

No, but your assertion that the AFL games are full of endless boring speeches thanking sponsors is, those speeches basically happen once a season after the Grand Final, once a season as does the Catafalque ceremony, the Welcome to Country can probably be once a season too!

I can see you are emotionally connected to this issue, so you want to paint a picture conflating several issues into a single debate, that is the very divisive nature of this debate that I'm referring to. This isn't the US Senate, our issues do not come with riders.

Here we can openly discuss more than one issue in parallel, without the need to build dependency.

I don't feel I need to wear a cilice to make amends for things that happened generations ago, I don't have to punish myself or those around me as we are generations removed, more generations than can even be connected genetically. I have no gnashing or grinding of teeth, I can respect listen to and see people without needing to offer some compensation or be compensated.

As for the politics and the dollars, I would think it's a privilege to be offered to address the AFL crowds, such a forum is not available to most, it's not a paid public service.

Does the referendum question and the proposed wording still not put all the power for the composition on the Parliament.

https://voice.gov.au/resources/fact-sheet-referendum-question-and-constitutional-amendment

And where exactly is the "appropriate forum" for these types of discussions ? The footnotes of the Hansard ? The graveyard shift of some community radio station with 3 listeners ?

People are free to feel whatever they want about such ceremonies.
To actively advocate the booing is taking it to the extreme...and a recipe for some ugly scenes on a day that should be a celebration for all of us.

In the newspapers, on social media, yes in talkback radio and on current affairs television, like ever other major issue!

Extremes. I don't see victims of the numerous other crimes being offered a fee to relate their stories and thank the crowds for their support at AFL games. Carlton Respects is one game a year, is that somehow less of an issue, why not every pre-game? The Jane McGrath Foundation gets one cricket match a year, is breast cancer less important than a Welcome to Country. Why, are women too numerous and therefore fail minority status?

If you want to take this debate to extremes @PaulP , I doubt you be able to restrict the frame of reference to fat white fellas!

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Don't like what Sam is advocating, but i like he is prepared to speak his mind, knowing he will be vilified..............

And if you think you are actually going to have good / productive discussions on social media or talkback radio, well, I'm flummoxed that you could think that. Have you seen how major issues have been discussed in the past on these mediums ? Surely you can't be serious ?

Do we want to see a week leading up to the grand final where the headlines are all about the booing rather than the football.

By we, do you mean us in total, or do you mean the media?

There is little altruism in profit$

@PaulP are you somehow suggesting the bars in The MCG or Marvel, and the surrounding pubs and cafes are better venues?

I suspect, those pubs and bars are more likely to elicit a response closer to Newman's provocative preference!

If you are worried about the quality of news coverage, then I'd suggest The MCG crowd is the exact wrong place to take that debate.