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Topic: If Not BB, Who? (Read 60521 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #360 –
Quote from: deags on
Wayne Brittain   46   18   28   0   39.13   2001–2002
Denis Pagan   104   25   77   2   24.04   2003–2007
Brett Ratten   120   60   59   1   50.00   2007–2012
Mick Malthouse   54   20   33   1   37.04   2013–2015
John Barker   13   3   10   0   23.08   2015
Brendon Bolton   44   13   31   0   29.55   2016–

Coaches since Parkin in 2000. Games, wins, losses, draws.
Ratten 50%- not good enough, sack the coach.
Malthouse 37% sack the coach
Barker (caretaker)
Bolton 29%- ???

Can we see a common theme here?
We are changing coaches like we should be changing underwear and it's getting us worse as a result.
But, by all means, lets sack another coach...
this.

It is 100% the reason why Bolton shouldn't be sacked.  If we wait until the end of next season and we are in the same boat then maybe you could sack him then, but any movement before the end of 2020 is far too soon.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #361 –
Quote from: PaulP on
So what's wrong with a massive call ? The whole rebuild is a massive call. Is a strong opinion less valid than a weak one ?


"If they do have have a proper review, they will find Bolton is fine. Nothing surer."

That is what's wrong.
You said they will find Bolton is fine, nothing surer.

No one can suggest such a thing, after his record during this last 3 and a bit years.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #362 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Paul I don't think you can accuse our fans of being "jumpy" after our last 17 years.

I don't think Bolton should have to carry the can for anything before his time. If the fans' attitude is something like "we're fed up with the last 17 years of mostly poor performances, therefore Bolton has to go", that IMO, is appalling logic.

And my "jumpy" comment is more related to the fact that fans can't see the future, only the past, and that's not always a reliable indicator, as I've previously discussed.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #363 –
Quote from: JonHenry on
"If they do have have a proper review, they will find Bolton is fine. Nothing surer."

That is what's wrong.
You said they will find Bolton is fine, nothing surer.

No one can suggest such a thing, after his record during this last 3 and a bit years.

It's my strong opinion that will be the case. I certainly can suggest that in the context of a footy forum. If you think it's laughable or ridiculous or untenable, or foolhardy, stupid, etc. I have no problem with that. And if he turns out to be a spud, I will have no problem saying my opinion was wrong.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #364 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
this.

It is 100% the reason why Bolton shouldn't be sacked.  If we wait until the end of next season and we are in the same boat then maybe you could sack him then, but any movement before the end of 2020 is far too soon.

You can add to that.

If the trend continues we become less and less attractive to senior players and their managers, and with the small list sizes, combined with increased player fatigue, successful trading for senior players is far more important than it has ever been before!

We need durable senior heads that can lift the young keepers in the short term, give them time to develop which takes several years not several games!
The Force Awakens!

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #365 –
Quote from: LP on
You can add to that.

If the trend continues we become less and less attractive to senior players and their managers, and with the small list sizes, combined with increased player fatigue, successful trading for senior players is far more important than it has ever been before!

We need durable senior heads that can lift the young keepers in the short term, give them time to develop which takes several years not several games!

Agree, if we keep losing games this will happen

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #366 –
Quote from: deags on
Wayne Brittain   46   18   28   0   39.13   2001–2002
Denis Pagan   104   25   77   2   24.04   2003–2007
Brett Ratten   120   60   59   1   50.00   2007–2012
Mick Malthouse   54   20   33   1   37.04   2013–2015
John Barker   13   3   10   0   23.08   2015
Brendon Bolton   44   13   31   0   29.55   2016–

...................

Lol. Has anyone emerged from the Carlton Coach Killer Vortex with even a shred of their good coaching record intact ? Pagan, Malthouse, maybe Bolton to follow suit. Whatever they've done before, at whatever level, their record is pretty good (check out Bolton's teenage and later record - not too shabby). Then they come to us........Surely only real talent, craft and dedication from someone(s) at the club can kill one coach after another, and not get caught.

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #367 –
All that matters is right now and the circumstances that got us here and the strategies to improve things.

Buckley changed and success followed, nothing to do with sticking with him.

Dimma changed and success followed, nothing to do with sticking with him.

Even Bomber had to change and success followed, nothing to do with sticking with him.

Even when their sides were not doing well, Buckley, Dimma and Bomber were all very good coaches. But, prior to change, they were hellbent on doing everything themselves... micromanaging everyone, drowning people in theories and instructions, finger in every pie. P1sses people off and creates confusion when the boss in an intense control freak.

The biggest question for BB, and his coaching career hinges on it, can he change? Can he learn to delegate and trust and let 'the cobblers, cobble?' Can he give fellow coaches and players, clear, succinct, BRIEF, instructions, then STFU? According to Wallsy the bloke can coach, so it's down to communication/management style.

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: If Not BB, Who?

Reply #368 –
If Buckley the uber perfectionist can let go, I'm sure Bolton can, especially if that's what it takes to keep his job. He's young enough, he's smart enough........

And if that's his biggest problem, then we're sweet.

bolton

Reply #369 –
Quote from: LP on
Yes, it's a tough situation, because the MC will be trying to judge Lang's head-space more than anything else!

The worry is that he was a reluctant resident to start with!
Not wanting to taint any players, I've a mate who worries about the apparent lack of success of Geelong trades, not just at Carlton but across the AFL in general. Well not really their lack of success, but why they seem to over achieve while at the Handbaggers, like the Handbaggers have some magic potion, it must be the Bellarine air! ;)

This is yet another reason NOT to change things up dramatically at Carlton.

Geelong and Hawthorn are showing us why they have become strong clubs.  They were both struggling at the turn of the century.  Hawthorn were about to go through a merger with Melbourne, and Geelong won wooden spoons in the early 2000's.

What these clubs did back then, was not to change directions because what they implemented didn't yield immediate results.  They set themselves some goals, and conducted proper planning and processes both off and on field to strive to achieve things and continue ticking the boxes off, reviewing what works, what doesnt work, and dont swing wildly from one strategy to another.  Even the transition from Thompson to Scott seems to have been well planned, and paid immediate dividends.

The results were that they ended up with a really stable football club.  Stability off field translates to stability on field.  The thing is, that faces on the footy field do change, but they have a core of players that are there, that have been following the same sort of standards that were established under Bomber Thompson on field, and continue to be adhered to by incumbants.  Tom Harley (premiership captain) relinquished the reigns to Cameron Ling (Premiership captain) who relinquished the reigns to Joel Selwood (who was part of the leadership group under Cameron Ling).

What you see there is a continuity that we at Carlton can only dream about.  Not just the on field success, but the off field strategem.  During this time, we have chopped and changed 4 on field coaches, turned over more players that you can poke a stick at, and could turf our 5th coach and once again swing wildly due to people being worried about not achieving enough wins this season to justify the current course of action.



If you want a reason why you know that Geelong don't have some magic formula down there and simply have a better club culture, its really simple.  Its built on standards and continuity that has seen them go from cellar dwellars to Premierships over the span of 15 years, and when you wonder how they manage it, you only have to look at Zach Tuohy and Lachie Henderson to understand that they arent doing much more there than they did with us, they are simply surrounded by a better formed unit of players and any of our boys would look as good.



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: bolton

Reply #370 –
Quote from: Thryleon on

What you see there is a continuity that we at Carlton can only dream about.  Not just the on field success, but the off field strategem.  During this time, we have chopped and changed 4 on field coaches, turned over more players that you can poke a stick at, and could turf our 5th coach and once again swing wildly due to people being worried about not achieving enough wins this season to justify the current course of action.
I'm guessing the only people wanting to swing an axe are people on this site and some media types. I'm also guessing (well hoping really) that those that count are rock solid in their strategy and approach to this rebuild. If those at the top and in charge waiver from the plan, we are screwed.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: bolton

Reply #371 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
I'm guessing the only people wanting to swing an axe are people on this site and some media types. I'm also guessing (well hoping really) that those that count are rock solid in their strategy and approach to this rebuild. If those at the top and in charge waiver from the plan, we are screwed.

Sit in the stands at games and hear what the supporter base say about Bolton....you wouldnt want to have a poll of supporters because it wouldnt be pretty reading.
Most have had enough.....I agree sacking Bolton now wont achieve anything but joe average public supporter wants action, not more cliches and the same tired old answers.

Re: bolton

Reply #372 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Sit in the stands at games and hear what the supporter base say about Bolton....you wouldnt want to have a poll of supporters because it wouldnt be pretty reading.
Most have had enough.....I agree sacking Bolton now wont achieve anything but joe average public supporter wants action, not more cliches and the same tired old answers.
Really EB? Supporters in the crowd? I'll just leave it at that.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: bolton

Reply #373 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Really EB? Supporters in the crowd? I'll just leave it at that.

Members/Supporters are like shareholders, they want a return on their time and money....yep you can leave it but thats
what the Elliott years were about, ignoring joe average and getting them to swallow every line of BS that came out of
Princes Park. The difference with us and the big clubs like a Geelong is that they stop, think and reset, we just keep doing the same thing
waiting for it to turn around, waiting for other clubs to drop off, waiting for Godot to turn up.

Re: bolton

Reply #374 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Members/Supporters are like shareholders, they want a return on their time and money....yep you can leave it but thats
what the Elliott years were about, ignoring joe average and getting them to swallow every line of BS that came out of
Princes Park. The difference with us and the big clubs like a Geelong is that they stop, think and reset, we just keep doing the same thing
waiting for it to turn around, waiting for other clubs to drop off, waiting for Godot to turn up.

I thought this rebuild was all about doing things differently ?