I'll finish the title of the thread after the result is known. Otherwise, this is just preparation for later tonight.
I hope it isn't pain, but prescience is not among my skills (otherwise we would NEVER lose a game).
Live Long and Prosper!
When is BB going to earn his money? Must be working on the theory of 3 steps back 1 step forward?
When is BB going to earn his money? Must be working on the theory of 3 steps back 1 step forward?
I didn't thin we deserved to lose by 10 goals, but we almost did. And we could kick only 5. :(
Recruited too many players who were slackers in High School but because they were jocks they got all the girls and thought their sh*t didn't stink.
And we just continue to feed their egos by paying them overs to live the life of Riley. Fair dinkum, if I showed the same inability to perform the core functions of my job I would have been sacked long ago.
We got rid of a bunch of frauds last year. Second round of culling can't come soon enough.
Cameron Ling says, "Outstanding defensive effort from Gold Coast tonight". Yeah, right. ::)
Can expect Casboult to be the only target down forward, just gets gang tackeld every contest...Jaksch and Gorringe have to play next week IMO and either Philips or Kruezer have to go out as both are useless down forward...
Recruited too many players who were slackers in High School but because they were jocks they got all the girls and thought their sh*t didn't stink.
And we just continue to feed their egos by paying them overs to live the life of Riley. Fair dinkum, if I showed the same inability to perform the core functions of my job I would have been sacked long ago.
We got rid of a bunch of frauds last year. Second round of culling can't come soon enough.
Cameron Ling says, "Outstanding defensive effort from Gold Coast tonight". Yeah, right. ::)
The Suns are young fit, fast and skillful. I agree with Ling - mind you, we made it easy for them.
I still think they have cultural issues to sort out.
Executing skills under pressure, holding marks we get our hands to, even our level of fitness; until we cure these issues we will be ordinary.
Ive seen enough of this list
The only thing im looking forward to this season is who are we delisting trading and recruiting. ...
Our forward function is very poor. Tackling very poor. So many turnovers inside 50. You could see them in the last quarter just give up.
Up until the last quarter I didn't think we were so bad tonight.
Krooz can't mark a ball. He's gone backwards.
Phillips has gotten worse each game.
Jamison has been a great servant to the club but you can see his heart ain't in it anymore.
Rowe. No.
Murphy. Captains can't be allowed to have these sort of games. He and Cotchin are the 2 worst captains in the league.
Gibbs vanished after half time.
But -
Weitering - magnificent. I'd love to see him play CHF but we so desperately need him down back.
Curnow the older played his guts out. If only he could kick.
Curnow the younger is getting better. Definitely love what he offers. Though not convinced he should play down back.
Byrne wasn't bad at all. Deserves a second game.
But we stank it up in that last quarter.
Executing skills under pressure, holding marks we get our hands to, even our level of fitness; until we cure these issues we will be ordinary.
Agree, and I would add decision making is a big problem as well.
Only round 3 and the year is getting longer by the minute.....*sigh*
Once again we got lead up the garden path during the off season , brainwashed into thinking we would improve.
Up until the last quarter I didn't think we were so bad tonight.
Krooz can't mark a ball. He's gone backwards.
Phillips has gotten worse each game.
Jamison has been a great servant to the club but you can see his heart ain't in it anymore.
Rowe. No.
Murphy. Captains can't be allowed to have these sort of games. He and Cotchin are the 2 worst captains in the league.
Gibbs vanished after half time.
But -
Weitering - magnificent. I'd love to see him play CHF but we so desperately need him down back.
Curnow the older played his guts out. If only he could kick.
Curnow the younger is getting better. Definitely love what he offers. Though not convinced he should play down back.
Byrne wasn't bad at all. Deserves a second game.
But we stank it up in that last quarter.
Not sure I agree on Murph, but I agree with everything else. Fair post.
GOLD COAST 3. 2 5. 7 9. 10 13. 16 (94)
CARLTON 1. 3 3. 5 5. 8 5. 11 (41)
GOALS
Gold Coast: Lynch 4,Martin 3,Cameron, Day, Hall, Malceski, Matera, Sexton
Carlton: Casboult, Cripps, C. Curnow, Tuohy, Wright
BEST
Gold Coast: Hall, Ablett, Lynch, Martin, Malceski, Kolodjashnij
Carlton: Weitering, Gibbs, Docherty, Curnow, Cripps
Our fitness levels still leave much to be desired. We haven't been able to keep up in a single last quarter this year. They got some very easy goals at the end because guys like Boekhorst (to name just one) didn't keep up.
Can expect Casbouylt to be the only target down forward, just gets gang tackeld every contest...Jaksch and Gorringe have to play next week IMO and either Philips or Kruezer have to go out as both are useless down forward...
Said all along, Kreuzer is crap when he has to share duties. Means he goes forward too much where he's no good As our only ruckman, with help from Casboult, which works for both of them, Kreuzer then is a much better player. Kreuzer had no physical presence tonight. Compare that with Casboult, who either marked, contested or smashed up bodies. Sent a couple from ground not to return.
Hopefully Plowman, Jaksch and Sumner have good ones. Then we can drop Jammo and Rowe. Happy to go with Weitering and Plowman in the key positions, with Jaksch playing forward with Casboult.
Once again we got lead up the garden path during the off season , brainwashed into thinking we would improve.
Actually, the opposite is true.
this year was about development.
It's hard to take but take it we must.
Agree, and I would add decision making is a big problem as well.
It's all about introverts and church mice, too many on our list look like they are doing their best to hide from the crowd and the cameras.
One of the reasons Weitering stands out because he talks and directs players.
You won't have success in the AFL with a team full of introverts and we keep giving the extroverts the kibosh!
Can expect Casbouylt to be the only target down forward, just gets gang tackeld every contest...Jaksch and Gorringe have to play next week IMO and either Philips or Kruezer have to go out as both are useless down forward...
Well we all knew this is what to expect this season but it shouldn't have been as bad as that tonight. So yep, you're spot on. It hurts to say it but right now on current form we're going to have to bring in jones and jaksch to replace Phillips and Jamison. Not ideal but can't be worse that what we saw in the last term tonight. (Unless Mr Plow is ready to go next week)
I'd also rather see Cunningham get a run, couldn't do much less than some of our passengers tonight and will get more out of it. And if we can still elevate a rookie get gallucci to play as a small forward who will actually apply pressure and tackle.
Actually, the opposite is true.
this year was about development.
It's hard to take but take it we must.
Development = Progress, NOT going backwards!
Once again we got lead up the garden path during the off season , brainwashed into thinking we would improve.
I didn't believe the hype. ..
GOLD COAST 3. 2 5. 7 9. 10 13. 16 (94)
CARLTON 1. 3 3. 5 5. 8 5. 11 (41)
GOALS
Gold Coast: Lynch 4,Martin 3,Cameron, Day, Hall, Malceski, Matera, Sexton
Carlton: Casboult, Cripps, C. Curnow, Tuohy, Wright
BEST
Gold Coast: Hall, Ablett, Lynch, Martin, Malceski, Kolodjashnij
Carlton: Weitering, Gibbs, Docherty, Curnow, Cripps
Our fitness levels still leave much to be desired. We haven't been able to keep up in a single last quarter this year. They got some very easy goals at the end because guys like Boekhorst (to name just one) didn't keep up.
Seriously, Gibbs named among our best? Is someone trying to add insult to injury tonight?
Actually, the opposite is true.
this year was about development.
It's hard to take but take it we must.
Agree....its what the Saints have been through and its going to be one belting after another until we get some permanent structure to the team...just have to enjoy Weitering, C, Curnow etc and forget about the scoreboard at times.....if I get effort I dont mind but I thought we just tailed off in the effort tonight...maybe the heat and chasing GC butt all night wore us down...
You can tell when the effort starts dropping off when smalls like Docherty and Simpson are left one out vs much taller opponents.....reckon Kade looked like he had had enough at one stage...
Said all along, Kreuzer is crap when he has to share duties. Means he goes forward too much where he's no good As our only ruckman, with help from Casboult, which works for both of them, Kreuzer then is a much better player. Kreuzer had no physical presence tonight. Compare that with Casboult, who either marked, contested or smashed up bodies. Sent a couple from ground not to return.
Hopefully Plowman, Jaksch and Sumner have good ones. Then we can drop Jammo and Rowe. Happy to go with Weitering and Plowman in the key positions, with Jaksch playing forward with Casboult.
Kreuzer - gee, I worry about him. He took one mark tonight, and, although he got quite a few taps, we didn't get much out of them at all. He is just not giving us a target to kick to. For a #1 pick he is really struggling to make an impact. I agree with Iaj: Kreuzer just isn't making an impact in any part of his role.
Tonight he was playing on a guy I seriously do not rate as a ruckman. Yet, instead of being a strength and a win for us, their mid field had a field day.
It also shows that our present midfield structure isn't working all that well. When it works we look great, but our opponents get it a lot more often.
Phillips tried, but he is at least a year off being a top ruckman.
Well we all knew this is what to expect this season but it shouldn't have been as bad as that tonight. So yep, you're spot on. It hurts to say it but right now on current form we're going to have to bring in jones and jaksch to replace Phillips and Jamison. Not ideal but can't be worse that what we saw in the last term tonight. (Unless Mr Plow is ready to go next week)
I'd also rather see Cunningham get a run, couldn't do much less than some of our passengers tonight and will get more out of it. And if we can still elevate a rookie get gallucci to play as a small forward who will actually apply pressure and tackle.
Just put Plowman in. We're not going to win so he may as well get fit in the seniors. He and Weitering in defence, Casboult and Jaksch forward. Then drop Rowe and Jammo together with Phillips, just for starters.
Kruezer has taken 4 marks in 3 games in 2016
Enough is enough
Development = Progress, NOT going backwards!
The club said a three year rebuild.
We must get every top 20 draft pick we can in that time.
Weitering, Cripps, C Curnow and McKay aside, trade trade trade.
We need confidence, skill, attitude, mental strength, disposal ability.
We also need to clear out weak minded players that may influence the future.
That is the most important trading aspect.
The club said a three year rebuild.
We must get every top 20 draft pick we can in that time.
Weitering, Cripps, C Curnow and McKay aside, trade trade trade.
We need confidence, skill, attitude, mental strength, disposal ability.
We also need to clear out weak minded players that may influence the future.
That is the most important trading aspect.
Yep...cut hard and deep...get the loser players out of the joint that are bad examples for young kids
Recruited too many players who were slackers in High School but because they were jocks they got all the girls and thought their sh*t didn't stink.
And we just continue to feed their egos by paying them overs to live the life of Riley. Fair dinkum, if I showed the same inability to perform the core functions of my job I would have been sacked long ago.
We got rid of a bunch of frauds last year. Second round of culling can't come soon enough.
Cameron Ling says, "Outstanding defensive effort from Gold Coast tonight". Yeah, right. ::)
Yep. We got rid of the slackers and has beens and then replaced them with recycled players who could not get a game at their prospective clubs.
This club has not hit rock bottom yet. We are the new Melbourne.
Kruezer has taken 4 marks in 3 games in 2016
Enough is enough
Agree....he needs some time in the twos to learn how to dominate games, Nicholls isnt great but looked every bit as good as either MK or Philips....I like to see what Gorringe has to offer and would also include Jaksch and Plowman if they are decent enough in the NB's this week..
First post this year, because I thought I would wait and see if we had improved.
The simple answer is, NO.
Firstly.
Jamieson is gone.
Rowe should never be allowed to play in the ones again.
Bokehorst is a dud.
Wiley is a dud.
Kreuzer is either completely out of form has lost confidence, or is gone and will never reach the heights that he reached prior to doing his knee.
Touhey is limited.
Thomas is a shadow of what he once was.
Buckley doesn't do enough.
Phillips doesn't take enough marks around the ground and is too easily brushed aside.
Gibbs, is Gibbs.
Murphys delivery to our players is terrible and always has been.
Levi tries hard and that's about it.
Simmo, ditto.
The positives are Cripps. On his worst night, he is better than all the above.
Weitering, an absolute star.
Curnow, will be a star.
Ed Curnow, gives his all, but some of his hand passing lets him down.
Our foot and hand skills are nonexistent.
As for our coaching staff and I use the term coaching loosly, I ask what sort of a game plan is it when whomever kicks out after a behind is scored, has got no idea what to do, where there is no forward line structure or a plan to maximize forward entries as far as possinble, where handballs fall at the feet of players, and players cannot hit a target when they pass, and where, if the ball is turned over, our players look up, and there is not ONE forward who has been told to stay within the 50 metre attacking arc for just such an occurrence.
What the FK have they been doing for 5 months.
We face yet another long hard season ahead. And yes, I know it's a young team and we are rebuilding blah blah blah blah, but when you are paying players between 150 and 500 grand a year and they can't execute basic skills, then you have to say that the club is going nowhere, and forget about a 5 year rebuild, it will be more like ten.
Sorry to be such a pessimist, but as a 60 year supporter, I reckon that I won't live long enough to see another flag in my life time.
And that absolutely SH!!!!!TTTTS me off.
The powers that be at the club tell me that they know what they are doing.
After three rounds, I have got very strong doubts about that.
I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong.
As of tonight I'm done with thinking there is any future for Murphy and Gibbs. Both mental pygmys. How many years have we been watching them stink it up. I've just given up.
Where were they when we needed them tonight? What part of the grass did they dig up and hide under? Just pathetic individuals.
The club said a three year rebuild.
We must get every top 20 draft pick we can in that time.
Weitering, Cripps, C Curnow and McKay aside, trade trade trade.
We need confidence, skill, attitude, mental strength, disposal ability.
We also need to clear out weak minded players that may influence the future.
That is the most important trading aspect.
Have no players with trade currency, That is the main problem.
Agree....its what the Saints have been through and its going to be one belting after another until we get some permanent structure to the team...just have to enjoy Weitering, C, Curnow etc and forget about the scoreboard at times.....if I get effort I dont mind but I thought we just tailed off in the effort tonight...maybe the heat and chasing GC butt all night wore us down...
You can tell when the effort starts dropping off when smalls like Docherty and Simpson are left one out vs much taller opponents.....reckon Kade looked like he had had enough at one stage...
We have to be patient. Again.
Just put Plowman in. We're not going to win so he may as well get fit in the seniors. He and Weitering in defence, Casboult and Jaksch forward. Then drop Rowe and Jammo together with Phillips, just for starters.
My concern with bringing Plowman is in the injury risk if he's not ready to play at this level. If he's assessed as ready then I have to agree with you.
Regardless of the team changes, next week against a very good and well drilled dogs unit is looming as a major flogging.
First post this year, because I thought I would wait and see if we had improved.
The simple answer is, NO.
Firstly.
Jamieson is gone.
Rowe should never be allowed to play in the ones again.
Bokehorst is a dud.
Wiley is a dud.
Kreuzer is either completely out of form has lost confidence, or is gone and will never reach the heights that he reached prior to doing his knee.
Touhey is limited.
Thomas is a shadow of what he once was.
Buckley doesn't do enough.
Phillips doesn't take enough marks around the ground and is too easily brushed aside.
Gibbs, is Gibbs.
Murphys delivery to our players is terrible and always has been.
Levi tries hard and that's about it.
Simmo, ditto.
The positives are Cripps. On his worst night, he is better than all the above.
Weitering, an absolute star.
Curnow, will be a star.
Ed Curnow, gives his all, but some of his hand passing lets him down.
Our foot and hand skills are nonexistent.
As for our coaching staff and I use the term coaching loosly, I ask what sort of a game plan is it when whomever kicks out after a behind is scored, has got no idea what to do, where there is no forward line structure or a plan to maximize forward entries as far as possinble, where handballs fall at the feet of players, and players cannot hit a target when they pass, and where, if the ball is turned over, our players look up, and there is not ONE forward who has been told to stay within the 50 metre attacking arc for just such an occurrence.
What the FK have they been doing for 5 months.
We face yet another long hard season ahead. And yes, I know it's a young team and we are rebuilding blah blah blah blah, but when you are paying players between 150 and 500 grand a year and they can't execute basic skills, then you have to say that the club is going nowhere, and forget about a 5 year rebuild, it will be more like ten.
Sorry to be such a pessimist, but as a 60 year supporter, I reckon that I won't live long enough to see another flag in my life time.
And that absolutely SH!!!!!TTTTS me off.
The powers that be at the club tell me that they know what they are doing.
After three rounds, I have got very strong doubts about that.
I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong.
I feel your pain.
The administration did a lot right last trade period but in looking at this season so far I'd say they didn't shop Gibbs and Murphy around hard enough.
We need to cash them both in. Diabolical players. I can't remember feeling this level of contempt for 2 Carlton players before but there is something so lazy and cynical about these 2. Defensively they're determined to be as lazy as they can without doing so little that the coach will give them a spray.
Hate them.
Dale Thomas - if he had any integrity he'd hand back half his contract. He is literally useless.
Aaaand we're on the bottom of the ladder. Again. In a year in which Weitering could very well win our B&F.
wtf is wrong with our club?!?
Wow, we stink. Only round 3 and we have lost by 9 goals and scrubbed just 40 odd points on our side of the ledger. GC even had two men down for half the game.
Weitering was easily our best player. Poise, good decisions, read the play well and kicked to the right option time and time again. He is already plugging the gaping holes in our backline in just his third game. Jamo and rowe are so slow and without the ability to kick well they dont have much to offer.
Curnow worked hard in the middle, but he was the only four quarter player. Cripps played well in the second half. As for the rest of the midfield, they seemed to melt away. Kerridge tried hard, but fumbled terribly. We seemed to not get numbers around the contest well at all. On occasions it seemed we have the judd problem with cripps, with team mates hanging on the edges waiting for cripps to dish it out but not getting involved enough.
Forwards, what forwards. They simply dont move enough. We so rarely get a forward seperating from their opponents, so it is little wonder kicks get intercepted so easily. 50 inside 50s tonight, mostly to see it coming back with interest. Buckly, whose job as far as i could tell was to keep the ball in may as well go back to the seconds for good, along with whiley.
Really concerned about Kruezer, who just has no idea forward, hardly getting off the ground. Is he injured now or just battling the culmative effect of his many injuries.
Awful night, already on the bottom of the ladder with a terrible percentage.
Yep. We got rid of the slackers and has beens and then replaced them with recycled players who could not get a game at their prospective clubs.
This club has not hit rock bottom yet. We are the new Melbourne.
Admittedly some of those recycled players came in a 4 for 1 deal, or a 2 for 1 deal last year. The problem is we are playing them. You can only hope that 2 turn out, as I think Plowman, Jaksch and Sumner will. If they do then we've won.
Aaaand we're on the bottom of the ladder. Again. In a year in which Weitering could very well win our B&F.
wtf is wrong with our club?!?
Cue.....my pet interest
ITS THE BOARD
Have no players with trade currency, That is the main problem.
Remember Henderson & Menzel.
We also have the advantage of every other club seeing Waite, Betts, Garlett and Robinson at other clubs
Wow, we stink. Only round 3 and we have lost by 9 goals and scrubbed just 40 odd points on our side of the ledger. GC even had two men down for half the game.
Weitering was easily our best player. Poise, good decisions, read the play well and kicked to the right option time and time again. He is already plugging the gaping holes in our backline in just his third game. Jamo and rowe are so slow and without the ability to kick well they dont have much to offer.
Curnow worked hard in the middle, but he was the only four quarter player. Cripps played well in the second half. As for the rest of the midfield, they seemed to melt away. Kerridge tried hard, but fumbled terribly. We seemed to not get numbers around the contest well at all. On occasions it seemed we have the judd problem with cripps, with team mates hanging on the edges waiting for cripps to dish it out but not getting involved enough.
Forwards, what forwards. They simply dont move enough. We so rarely get a forward seperating from their opponents, so it is little wonder kicks get intercepted so easily. 50 inside 50s tonight, mostly to see it coming back with interest. Buckly, whose job as far as i could tell was to keep the ball in may as well go back to the seconds for good, along with whiley.
Really concerned about Kruezer, who just has no idea forward, hardly getting off the ground. Is he injured now or just battling the culmative effect of his many injuries.
Awful night, already on the bottom of the ladder with a terrible percentage.
Alot I agree with.
As for the forwards, we move the ball in to the 50 sooooooooooo slowly with sooooooooo litttle system that the forward couldn't find space if they tried. The forward 50 is so full of numbers. There's no Fev's or Whitnall's in there who can read it find space anywhere.
Remember Henderson & Menzel.
We also have the advantage of every other club seeing Waite, Betts, Garlett and Robinson at other clubs
Fair point.
Cue.....my pet interest
ITS THE BOARD
You could save yourself a lot of repetitive typing - just write "it's the board's fault" as your signature and be done with it.
My concern with bringing Plowman is in the injury risk if he's not ready to play at this level. If he's assessed as ready then I have to agree with you.
Regardless of the team changes, next week against a very good and well drilled dogs unit is looming as a major flogging.
We seem to be a very slow team, which gets highlighted against teams like the Suns and Dogs.
Remember Henderson & Menzel.
We also have the advantage of every other club seeing Waite, Betts, Garlett and Robinson at other clubs
No matter what anyone says, losing that group of players hurts. Essentially gone from one of the best forward lines in 2013 to comprehensively the worst. Waite's 32yo admittedly but in fine form. There's nothing like experience up there with the youngsters.
Henderson and Menzel got us good picks, no problem there, but the other's we lost for nothing, all 4 of them.
AND, if I hear Bolton say, "it's a learning process" or "it's a fkn journey" one more time, I'll throw up.
I'm getting sick and tired of hearing it.
I want him to be honest and say, "we are not up to it, our skill level is non fkn existent, and I'm sorry to say this to the 47,000 people who have parted with their hard earned to buy a membership, but it's going to be a long hard year."
If he then adds, "we are putting every player on notice. Improve, and show us that you have got some ability, and are prepared to put in every week. If you don't, you are out at the end of the year. There is no way that we can ask the same 47,000 people to part with their money in 2017, and have to put up with the craap that was on display tonight".
Bolton may actually win the respect of the supporters if he said that, rather than the same bull dust and buzz words and cliches symptomatic of a school teacher or a politically correct lefty that he foists upon us at every press conference.
Have no players with trade currency, That is the main problem.
We somehow turned Tom Bell into C Curnow this year. Early days and all that but that shapes as such a massive win.
Hendo for McKay.
The player doesn't have to be a world beater - or in Bell's case even competent - to have some trade value.
You could save yourself a lot of repetitive typing - just write "it's the board's fault" as your signature and be done with it.
I will try and be more constructive....but pratts mathiesons elliots must release their collective hold on this board and let the club grow with new people in charge. ..its our only chance..because I suspect something will happen to carlton in 6 months. .
For a bloke that weighs over 100 kg Phillips would get knocked off the ball by my 6 year old... falls over all the bloody time. Too many of our blokes get knocked over or fumble fumble fumble....AAAAAAAAAAAAAGH.
After looking at the stats I cannot believe we used 89 bench rotations and they only went with 70 - but somehow ran over us in the final quarter?????? And this on top of bring 2 players down and Ablett and Prestia appearing injured?
Game 3 of a rebuild and peeps want wins away from home, against a red hot team in slippery conditions.
Funny people follow this club.
AND, if I hear Bolton say, "it's a learning process" or "it's a fkn journey" one more time, I'll throw up.
I'm getting sick and tired of hearing it.
I want him to be honest and say, "we are not up to it, our skill level is non fkn existent, and I'm sorry to say this to the 47,000 people who have parted with their hard earned to buy a membership, but it's going to be a long hard year."
If he then adds, "we are putting every player on notice. Improve, and show us that you have got some ability, and are prepared to put in every week. If you don't, you are out at the end of the year. There is no way that we can ask the same 47,000 people to part with their money in 2017, and have to put up with the craap that was on display tonight".
Bolton may actually win the respect of the supporters if he said that, rather than the same bull dust and buzz words and cliches symptomatic of a school teacher or a politically correct lefty that he foists upon us at every press conference.
He's just warming up - wait till he starts talking about positive and creative synergistic relationships and engaging stakeholders.
Game 3 of a rebuild and peeps want wins away from home, against a red hot team in slippery conditions.
Funny people follow this club.
Funny people control this club
Scheduling of our games has not worked out well.
Tiges got us before they realised just how crap they were. Sydney and GC in red hot form.... it's ok though - only Bulldogs next week.
Then Freo away. Would kill for a Melbourne / St K / Coll / Ess matchup right now.
Game 3 of a rebuild and peeps want wins away from home, against a red hot team in slippery conditions.
Funny people follow this club.
Rubbish!
We want effort.
We want them to display basic skills, such as hitting a target with a foot pass or a hand ball.
We can cop, and yes, even expect a loss against the top teams.
But give us something to keep us interested.
Not the noncompetitive cr@p that we saw tonight.
He's just warming up - wait till he starts talking about positive and creative synergistic relationships and engaging stakeholders.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I'd like to see Bolton face up to reality and drop the likes of Thomas, Gibbs etc instead of the fringe numpties like Whiley and Buckley etc.
Really make a statement instead of just weasel words.
Its only 3 games into a loooooong road so we need to keep the powder dry some what. But FMD overall, I have seen no improvement from last year.
- We still turn it over like no other team, in spots that really hurt.
- We still do those silly loopy high around the corner kicks in hope that no other team in the comp does, 9 times out of 10 they go to the opo.
- We still have no system in the fwd line. More kicks in hope that get easily killed by their defenders.
- Our defence (Weitering aside) is clueless and loose.
- Our senior blokes (Curnow and perhaps Docherty aside) dont do any heavy lifting lifting what so ever
BB tonight you really learnt you aint in Kansas any more. I saw a look on his face at the end of the game as he walked out of the coaches box that looked like the enoormity of the task ahead hit him like a ton of bricks. Oh well, I didnt expect anything different. I hoped for a better result, I got what I expected though.
Go Blues.
Getting mown over in last quarters and we were one of the few, if only team who played to the season proper 90 interchange rotations throughout the preseason.......hmmmm......might be something in that.
I will try and be more constructive....but pratts mathiesons elliots must release their collective hold on this board and let the club grow with new people in charge. ..its our only chance..because I suspect something will happen to carlton in 6 months. .
For all the board issues we may have none of those people had anything to do with the collective turd we squeezed out on the ground at Metricon tonight. Mathieson didn't make casboult forget what he learnt last year about kicking straight, the pratts didn't teach tuohy how to get caught holding the ball so much or make him believe he could kick 60m goals and Elliot isn't to blame for the long list of guys not running, fumbling and giving their opponents too much space.
For all the board issues we may have none of those people had anything to do with the collective turd we squeezed out on the ground at Metricon tonight. Mathieson didn't make casboult forget what he learnt last year about kicking straight, the pratts didn't teach tuohy how to get caught holding the ball so much or make him believe he could kick 60m goals and Elliot isn't to blame for the long list of guys not running, fumbling and giving their opponents too much space.
Yes it is...which will be discussed in another thread
Stay tuned
Many more changes will be required to the list based on tonight's showing - changes that will need to go right to the more senior core of the playing group IMO. Our skills are still awful and the leadership from our senior players still appears weak.
We definitely must focus asap on building around youth and finding new leadership among them, with Docherty, Cripps, (despite a poor first half) and Weitering being our big hopes. Charlie C also certainly showed something as well tonight. Agree with other posters that getting Plowman out there is also a very high priority.
Grits teeth for next week!
Game 3 of a rebuild and peeps want wins away from home, against a red hot team in slippery conditions.
Funny people follow this club.
I have to agree. We were diabolical last year and crippled with injury. We changed our list as best we could and managed to get a true start out of it, with 2 others looking promising. We are still ordinary, just not as ordinary as last year. We are very young and inexperienced and we have major technical issues.
We are going to take time.
However, there were things I did not like:
[1] Jamison and Rowe were ordinary to poor, giving us very little drive and not stopping the Sun's forwards getting the ball.
[2] Our fitness level seems to be poor. Come the last quarter and we run out of juice.
[3] Our skills under pressure leave considerable room for improvement.
[4] Our centre structure seems less effective than last year.
[5] Our senior players are not making the sort of contribution that we really need from them. Kreuzer, Murphy, Gibbs, Rowe, Jamison, even Simmo are far from their best.
[6] We leak more goals from turnovers than we kick ourselves.
[7] Our forward structure is really problematical. We lack a true crumbing forward, even though Wright has been a reasonable pickup; we lack marking power in the forward 50; we had only a couple of marks in the forward 50 for the whole night; our mid sized forwards are lacking form or fitness, last year we had Walker and Everitt making useful contributions even though their were and are still issues with them both; and when we get the ball into our forward 50 it comes straight out again.
I can see a lot of what Bolton is trying to get across, but we appear to have neither the strength, the skills nor the decision making yet to make it work.
I think we will be in for a long and frustrating year. I don't like it, but I see little alternative.
Rubbish!
We want effort.
We want them to display basic skills, such as hitting a target with a foot pass or a hand ball.
We can cop, and yes, even expect a loss against the top teams.
But give us something to keep us interested.
Not the noncompetitive cr@p that we saw tonight.
There was plenty of effort for the first half.
Saying otherwise is just a tanty.
I want I want I want.
Grow up.
I'm not convinced our fitness base is the problem. Our players just don't play intelligent footy. They don't run to the right positions and they don't make it easy for their team mates. When was the last time you saw Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell gut-running to cover turnovers or fast ball movement from the opposition? It just puts too much pressure on our defenders and causes the midfield to run out of gas.
I'm not convinced it's poor disposal half of the time either. it's the players up field not working together to create space and to present a clear target for our players to hit up. How often do we kick to a player that has one or two defenders hanging off them? They need to be smarter, work together, and create space for themselves.
Smart teams conserve energy and win games by being efficient.
Effort - yes, for three quarters. Fitness - maybe underdone. Skill - limited. Speed - limited. Teamwork - undone by skill error.
Odds are good to be selected for goal of the round ::)
Not an unexpected result but man, getting quite desperate to see a few more green shoots..... And the winter is still to come.
Deep breath - we're only three weeks in.
Go Blues.
Actually, the opposite is true.
this year was about development.
It's hard to take but take it we must.
We were woeful tonight. I made my way up from Melbourne to Metricon to watch us. Weidering and Curnow (C) were terrific. The rest are awful. There is no game plan, no confidence and no pride. I think a board spill is imminent.
First post this year, because I thought I would wait and see if we had improved.
The simple answer is, NO.
Firstly.
Jamieson is gone.
Rowe should never be allowed to play in the ones again.
Bokehorst is a dud.
Wiley is a dud.
Kreuzer is either completely out of form has lost confidence, or is gone and will never reach the heights that he reached prior to doing his knee.
Touhey is limited.
Thomas is a shadow of what he once was.
Buckley doesn't do enough.
Phillips doesn't take enough marks around the ground and is too easily brushed aside.
Gibbs, is Gibbs.
Murphys delivery to our players is terrible and always has been.
Levi tries hard and that's about it.
Simmo, ditto.
The positives are Cripps. On his worst night, he is better than all the above.
Weitering, an absolute star.
Curnow, will be a star.
Ed Curnow, gives his all, but some of his hand passing lets him down.
Our foot and hand skills are nonexistent.
As for our coaching staff and I use the term coaching loosly, I ask what sort of a game plan is it when whomever kicks out after a behind is scored, has got no idea what to do, where there is no forward line structure or a plan to maximize forward entries as far as possinble, where handballs fall at the feet of players, and players cannot hit a target when they pass, and where, if the ball is turned over, our players look up, and there is not ONE forward who has been told to stay within the 50 metre attacking arc for just such an occurrence.
What the FK have they been doing for 5 months.
We face yet another long hard season ahead. And yes, I know it's a young team and we are rebuilding blah blah blah blah, but when you are paying players between 150 and 500 grand a year and they can't execute basic skills, then you have to say that the club is going nowhere, and forget about a 5 year rebuild, it will be more like ten.
Sorry to be such a pessimist, but as a 60 year supporter, I reckon that I won't live long enough to see another flag in my life time.
And that absolutely SH!!!!!TTTTS me off.
The powers that be at the club tell me that they know what they are doing.
After three rounds, I have got very strong doubts about that.
I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong.
This is the best post I have read for a long time! Finally someone on here makes some realistic (not politically correct) comments about our club. Spill the board, get rid of the introverted Mackay culture, get a decent president and a decent coach. Then we might make some progress. Oh and stop recruiting GWS rejects that SOS thinks he can convert into champions.
We were woeful tonight. I made my way up from Melbourne to Metricon to watch us. Weidering and Curnow (C) were terrific. The rest are awful. There is no game plan, no confidence and no pride. I think a board spill is imminent.
Yes Moz.
BTW it's Weitering.
Yes Moz.
BTW it's Weitering.
CIM, again I am not Mozzie. You are to be respected though for your undying love for our club. Even if I do think it's a bit weird.
CIM, again I am not Mozzie. You are to be respected though for your undying love for our club. Even if I do think it's a bit weird.
Yeah yeah.
Spill board, McKay blah blah.
It's Weitering BTW. 8)
Yeah yeah.
Spill board, McKay blah blah.
It's Weitering BTW. 8)
Ok mate,
you tell me this. Here is your chance am I'm eager for your opinion...
Why are we playing so badly?
CIM, again I am not Mozzie. You are to be respected though for your undying love for our club. Even if I do think it's a bit weird.
Why would it be weird for a supporter to have undying love for their club?
Only a troll would raise such a question.
Ok mate,
you tell me this. Here is your chance am I'm eager for your opinion...
Why are we playing so badly?
The board, pretty sure.
Tell me what you think. Dying to hear it , don't spare the words, give us chapter and verse everything that's wrong with the club and a plan to fix it.
3000 words should be enough for a good summary.
Chop chop. I'll read it in the morning.
Ok mate,
you tell me this. Here is your chance am I'm eager for your opinion...
Why are we playing so badly?
We played badly in the last days of MM. Now we are building and are having small wins every week. The Dogs and the Saints weren't too different from us 5 minutes ago and look at them now. Proper process and patience has led to success on field. We will be a powerhouse club in 2-3 years no doubt.
In the mean time troll away to your hearts content.
There was plenty of effort for the first half.
Saying otherwise is just a tanty.
I want I want I want.
Grow up.
Running around and chasing your opponents is not being competitive.
All that means, is that blinkered biased Carlton supporters who can't accept or face reality, will think that our team was "competitive".
All they achieved by doing that was keep in touch with GC for the first half.
Eventually, namely the second half, it took its toll. Hit a target with a handball and a kick, and you aren't running up and down the ground expending needless energy.
Even Bolton conceded that 11 goals that GC kicked were as a result of turnovers. I.E. skill errors.
At least he did say that if players aren't up to it, they will be cleared out at the end of the year.
I respect him for that.
He can see that they are no good.
Take a leaf out of his book., and your comments might gain some credibility.
Running around and chasing your opponents is not being competitive.
All that means, is that blinkered biased Carlton supporters who can't accept or face reality, will think that our team was "competitive".
All they achieved by doing that was keep in touch with GC for the first half.
Eventually, namely the second half, it took its toll. Hit a target with a handball and a kick, and you aren't running up and down the ground expending needless energy.
Even Bolton conceded that 11 goals that GC kicked were as a result of turnovers. I.E. skill errors.
At least he did say that if players aren't up to it, they will be cleared out at the end of the year.
I respect him for that.
He can see that they are no good.
Take a leaf out of his book., and your comments might gain some credibility.
3 games in to a rebuild.
Didn't hear Bolton squealing like a child.
He knows it takes time.
When an 18 yr old in his first season is your bog... that just says so much about your club on so many levels...
And maybe, just maybe, BB believed McKay and others about some players at his disposal... yes it is a reset but boy when you learn that some of the experienced players at your disposal are not up to it...
Remember BB came with a Dawks culture and player standard understanding... now he's witnessing the polar opposite first hand.
I'm not panicking. We got the shot in the arm a new coach brings and got the benefits twice because we went with a care taker and then a newbie.
We have simply come back to earth again with a bit of a thud.
Slow ball movement isn't our issue.
The inability to hit targets (just like the last few years) hurts us more.
A couple of times we moved the ball end to end with a series of good passes only to resort to a kick to a two on three contest inside forward fifty.
It's a bit pedestrian, but it's the issue of not playing enough true forwards.
The second half drop off isn't a desire or ability or fitness issue. it's a side who is worn down by working hard for little rewards inside fifty. A side that doesn't believe it can win. Probably because we miss the few easy chances to kick goals and then concede multiple goals in a row.
I'm not convinced our fitness base is the problem. Our players just don't play intelligent footy. They don't run to the right positions and they don't make it easy for their team mates. When was the last time you saw Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell gut-running to cover turnovers or fast ball movement from the opposition? It just puts too much pressure on our defenders and causes the midfield to run out of gas.
I'm not convinced it's poor disposal half of the time either. it's the players up field not working together to create space and to present a clear target for our players to hit up. How often do we kick to a player that has one or two defenders hanging off them? They need to be smarter, work together, and create space for themselves.
Smart teams conserve energy and win games by being efficient.
I like this post. There's something in this IMO. A successful kick in general play needs both the kicker and receiver to know what to do. You can be the best kick in the world - if your intended target doesn't know how to receive a kick.............
It's very easy to blame the kicker all the time.
There's also a certain performance anxiety, a real inability to deal with close checking, gut running and pressure from the opposition. According to 1AW, everything works beautifully training, but clearly not in game.
Bolts echoed the general sentiments on here in his presser. Pleased with effort in the first 3q, not so much the 4th. Said 11 of their goals came from turnovers, which is almost all their score. Said the turnovers are a combination of poor skill and poor decision making.
EDIT : Bolts also mentioned that players not up to it will be moved on. A little Captain Obvious, but also a little startling to hear from a new coach so early in the season. Reckon he and SOS are already sharpening their John Neeman American Felling Axes for a serious workout at seasons end.
As for our coaching staff and I use the term coaching loosly, I ask what sort of a game plan is it when whomever kicks out after a behind is scored, has got no idea what to do, where there is no forward line structure or a plan to maximize forward entries as far as possinble, where handballs fall at the feet of players, and players cannot hit a target when they pass, and where, if the ball is turned over, our players look up, and there is not ONE forward who has been told to stay within the 50 metre attacking arc for just such an occurrence.
What the FK have they been doing for 5 months.
We face yet another long hard season ahead. And yes, I know it's a young team and we are rebuilding blah blah blah blah, but when you are paying players between 150 and 500 grand a year and they can't execute basic skills, then you have to say that the club is going nowhere, and forget about a 5 year rebuild, it will be more like ten.
[/b]
Saved me typing the same thing Bignic.
Game 3 of a rebuild and peeps want wins away from home, against a red hot team in slippery conditions.
^^^ this
Funny people follow this club.
I'm not convinced our fitness base is the problem. Our players just don't play intelligent footy. They don't run to the right positions and they don't make it easy for their team mates. When was the last time you saw Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell gut-running to cover turnovers or fast ball movement from the opposition? It just puts too much pressure on our defenders and causes the midfield to run out of gas.
I'm not convinced it's poor disposal half of the time either. it's the players up field not working together to create space and to present a clear target for our players to hit up. How often do we kick to a player that has one or two defenders hanging off them? They need to be smarter, work together, and create space for themselves.
Smart teams conserve energy and win games by being efficient.
By George I think he's got it!
Remember Henderson & Menzel.
We also have the advantage of every other club seeing Waite, Betts, Garlett and Robinson at other clubs
We gave the latter away for nothing and let Mick replace them with peripheral plodders. No wonder we are so far behind. Mick has set us back 10 years. Thanks Swanny, and thanks Sticks.
Is it just me or does cripps not look right.
Mentioned it before but seems to jog jog around the place and either can't run hard or refuses to.
I understand he is a inside player but his lack of defensive pressure and general ease that players get away from him is worrying. Amazing talent but just unsure why he won't run.
Also geez Murphy disappointed last night.
He was pushed off the ball more then usual lacked any spark and player like it was still a NAB game. Looked underdone and dos interested.
Not what you want from a experienced player in a young rebuilding team. Definitely not what you want to see from your captain.
Weitering has to get the nomination for rising star this week. That's the only positive I could find.
We gave the latter away for nothing and let Mick replace them with peripheral plodders. No wonder we are so far behind. Mick has set us back 10 years. Thanks Swanny, and thanks Sticks.
F*** this again?!
For tha bazillionth time, why is there no $hit slung at Andy McKay?
AND, if I hear Bolton say, "it's a learning process" or "it's a fkn journey" one more time, I'll throw up.
I'm getting sick and tired of hearing it.
I want him to be honest and say, "we are not up to it, our skill level is non fkn existent, and I'm sorry to say this to the 47,000 people who have parted with their hard earned to buy a membership, but it's going to be a long hard year."
Yeah, blame the list after 3 rounds of football. Great idea, maybe we can then turn these 10 goals losses into 20 goal losses and replace the coach in 6 months time. Seriously stupid stuff right there.
Back the coach in, he has little to work with. When the majority of your senior core are frauds there is not too much you can do about it. Gibbs and Murphy must trade at years end.
Did anyone see that bit of play in the first term where first Murphy and then Gibbs were released into space on their left sides but could not make it work because they have no fking left foot. Both had to stop, prop, and then wheel around hence stalling the attack. That's what we have, two blokes that have had it so easy they never even bothered to develop a left foot. Just pathetic.
F*** this again?!
For tha bazillionth time, why is there no $hit slung at Andy McKay?
Him too bro, if he oversaw the whole thing then he is no doubt also to blame and should go.
Is it just me or does cripps not look right.
Mentioned it before but seems to jog jog around the place and either can't run hard or refuses to.
Played with a big corky last two weeks.
We gave the latter away for nothing and let Mick replace them with peripheral plodders. No wonder we are so far behind. Mick has set us back 10 years. Thanks Swanny, and thanks Sticks.
My point is, other clubs may see value.
Personally I think we are closer now they are gone.
That group wasn't taking us to the promised land, just giving us a Richmond like tease.
We need two things from a trade. Good picks and move on the cancerous mentally weak types that don't GAF.
E Curnow turns it over a heap but at least he shows the level of application that is required.
Give me that over Murphy and Gibbs any day
At halftime and Lingy was interviewing Sqibbs, Bryce said when they work so hard getting the ball into the forward line then a goal is missed it's hard to not drop your head.
It really must take its toll.
On Sqibbs he gets all his possessions at half back or on the wing. ALL easy linking passes that clock up the stats and NOTHING ELSE.
He is not damaging. We need to tear up his contract and make him play for a new contract each week. He only plays well when there is something in it for him.
Oh and Sqibbs, WTF is with the long hair? So 90's. ::)
I'm not convinced our fitness base is the problem. Our players just don't play intelligent footy. They don't run to the right positions and they don't make it easy for their team mates. When was the last time you saw Hodge, Lewis and Mitchell gut-running to cover turnovers or fast ball movement from the opposition? It just puts too much pressure on our defenders and causes the midfield to run out of gas.
When was the last time you saw Gibbs or Murphy bent over hands on their knees gasping for air because they just sprinted up and back 20 times? Have you ever seen it? These two are the crux of our problems, they and Kreuzer who is just forking awful. Let's call Collingwood back, maybe we can still get that drink for him?
The second half drop off isn't a desire or ability or fitness issue. it's a side who is worn down by working hard for little rewards inside fifty. A side that doesn't believe it can win. Probably because we miss the few easy chances to kick goals and then concede multiple goals in a row.
Yup I'd agree with this, also a lot of our senior players lack heart, which is required in situations such as the one above.
Re the retreads, Elwood's man Wright has been a great pick up and Kerridge despite his average kicking definitely has a future at our club. Boeky was average last night but also has a future IMO.
Played with a big corky last two weeks.
Has this been confirmed or just a hunch on how he looks. Heard nothing from the club and commenters didn't mention anything.
Was never quick but looked either unable or hopefully not unwilling to run.
Re the retreads, Elwood's man Wright has been a great pick up and Kerridge despite his average kicking definitely has a future at our club. Boeky was average last night but also has a future IMO.
Agree. And on Jacob Weitering, not enough said IMO. Superstar is used loosely but this bloke will be one of the competition in the future. 26 disposals, 80% eff, 1 clanger, this kid has got it all.
On our ruckman, 38 HO to their 19!!! Were ours playing for them and giving them first use FFS? I think I will watch a replay and have another look, I was watching while out so I couldnt really concentrate/focus on the nitty gritty.
Has this been confirmed or just a hunch on how he looks. Heard nothing from the club and commenters didn't mention anything.
Was never quick but looked either unable or hopefully not unwilling to run.
It was reported last week that he copped quite a bad corky, I'm assuming that carried over to this week.
Has this been confirmed or just a hunch on how he looks. Heard nothing from the club and commenters didn't mention anything.
Was never quick but looked either unable or hopefully not unwilling to run.
I am pretty sure BB mentioned it in one of his pressers. He also banged up his knee late in the PS training, its been heavily bandaged so it cant be fully right. Anyway, lets not focus on Cripps because he isnt the problem. Even if he was 110% fit, the senior blokes around him are doing SFA and thats the bulk of the issue right now.
Agree. And on Jacob Weitering, not enough said IMO. Superstar is used loosely but this bloke will be one of the competition in the future. 26 disposals, 80% eff, 1 clanger, this kid has got it all.
On our ruckman, 38 HO to their 19!!! Were ours playing for them and giving them first use FFS? I think I will watch a replay and have another look, I was watching while out so I couldnt really concentrate/focus on the nitty gritty.
Mate I feel asleep in the third quarter, body still hasn't adjusted to daylight savings, kept drifting in and out, every time I opened my eyes they'd kicked another couple.
I am pretty sure BB mentioned it in one of his pressers. He also banged up his knee late in the PS training, its been heavily bandaged so it cant be fully right. Anyway, lets not focus on Cripps because he isnt the problem. Even if he was 110% fit, the senior blokes around him are doing SFA and thats the bulk of the issue right now.
Yeah have to say, get off the kids back. He is the future and he has very little support.
I don't understand the unexpected doom and gloom on here. We are a bottom team, we are rebuilding, we have a new system, new coach and nearly half the list is new, and we are coming from a low, low base.
There is a reason why Weitering was seen as our BOG, cause he can actually play! People point out our number 1 picks, as Taylor did last night on the broadcast, but look at the number of rookies on the list too. These were players overlooked as they had flaws in their game and when the pressure is on they can crumble.
Jammo, Rowe (rookied by Sydney), Touhy, Byrne, Casboult, Wright, Ed Curnow, Phillips. We are missing the tale teen early 20 picks from the last decade that normally will make up a big chunk of a side.
I will look at the young players and how they perform this year, because expecting a win is beyond all possibilities. I said before the season started these is a real chance that we could go 0-8 straight up, hopefully we do well against Essendon and maybe pinch one from Collingwood.
Cripps - Not right, these has been some voices saying his knee is not right, or it may have been the corky from last week but he still did better ythan a lot on the ground, he's just marked at a high level now.
Weitering - A third gamer that is just awesome. When he makes a mistake, it's a surprise. Just imagine how good he'll be in a few years time, controlling the backline, swapping opponents with Plowman and Glass-McCasker (steps on my rookie argument, I know).
Charlie Curnow - Wow, improved heaps from his first game, looked more comfortable in the game and his kick on goal in the first looked composed. I see him as a forward who will pinch hit in the mid field rather that a mid, he moves and thinks like a forward, where a mid will hunt the ball, Charlie seems to look ahead and gets to a position where the ball may go.
Boekhurst - A lot to like this year but still a way to go. Good disposal and seem confident with the ball this year, needs a bit less selfishness and a lot more chase, but I liked what I saw of his mistake in the first half, kicked the ball long but got back and marked the returning pass, where last year his head would have dropped and the ball gone. He needs to make it as I have a feeling that he will be all that's left of the trade from 2014 with both Whiley and Jacksh gone at seasons end.
Graham - Does nice things but drifts out of the game too much, his lack of pace and size hurts too. Still has time but I'm guessing this is about as good as it will get.
Buckley - What does Dylan actually do well? He can run swiftly, but does he lay tackles? He can kick well but when you only touch the ball a few times a game what does it matter? Is he too small to be a back pocket? I don't know if he'll make it, at the moment I'd have to say no.
Kerridge - Worst game in navy blue. Missed targets and goals, didn't lay his normal amount of tackles either or pressure on the body. Hopefully will bonce back.
We had a 6 day break after playing hardened team, travelled to a warm humid ground, against a fast, skillful, inform team. They had two very good forward options Lynch and Martin that should both push for AA this season. Give a lot of other isdes the same conditions and they come up short too.
It's fine to call for people to be dropped, but who havbe we got to replace them. Rowe and Jammo both deserve to be dropped next week, but we have White, undersized (a possible Stringer opponent) Plowman, coming back of injury and needs to find touch and fitness in the VFL. Glass McCasker who didn't even get a practice match.
Do we drop Gibbs and bring in Clem Smith, V-Rainbow or Cunningham? Do we actually think this will help the team in the long run? Cause I doubt it will help now.
The sooner Murphy is replaced as captain the better, we will go no where with him leading the way.
The sooner Murphy is replaced as captain the better, we will go no where with him leading the way.
I like Murphy as a player. I think he's done as much as he can as Captain, but it's fair to say his tenure as captain hasn't really worked out. I think both he and the club would benefit from him being relieved TBH.
Then we can appoint Gibbs.
I don't understand the unexpected doom and gloom on here. We are a bottom team, we are rebuilding, we have a new system, new coach and nearly half the list is new, and we are coming from a low, low base.
There is a reason why Weitering was seen as our BOG, cause he can actually play! People point out our number 1 picks, as Taylor did last night on the broadcast, but look at the number of rookies on the list too. These were players overlooked as they had flaws in their game and when the pressure is on they can crumble.
Jammo, Rowe (rookied by Sydney), Touhy, Byrne, Casboult, Wright, Ed Curnow, Phillips. We are missing the tale teen early 20 picks from the last decade that normally will make up a big chunk of a side.
I will look at the young players and how they perform this year, because expecting a win is beyond all possibilities. I said before the season started these is a real chance that we could go 0-8 straight up, hopefully we do well against Essendon and maybe pinch one from Collingwood.
Cripps - Not right, these has been some voices saying his knee is not right, or it may have been the corky from last week but he still did better ythan a lot on the ground, he's just marked at a high level now.
Weitering - A third gamer that is just awesome. When he makes a mistake, it's a surprise. Just imagine how good he'll be in a few years time, controlling the backline, swapping opponents with Plowman and Glass-McCasker (steps on my rookie argument, I know).
Charlie Curnow - Wow, improved heaps from his first game, looked more comfortable in the game and his kick on goal in the first looked composed. I see him as a forward who will pinch hit in the mid field rather that a mid, he moves and thinks like a forward, where a mid will hunt the ball, Charlie seems to look ahead and gets to a position where the ball may go.
Boekhurst - A lot to like this year but still a way to go. Good disposal and seem confident with the ball this year, needs a bit less selfishness and a lot more chase, but I liked what I saw of his mistake in the first half, kicked the ball long but got back and marked the returning pass, where last year his head would have dropped and the ball gone. He needs to make it as I have a feeling that he will be all that's left of the trade from 2014 with both Whiley and Jacksh gone at seasons end.
Graham - Does nice things but drifts out of the game too much, his lack of pace and size hurts too. Still has time but I'm guessing this is about as good as it will get.
Buckley - What does Dylan actually do well? He can run swiftly, but does he lay tackles? He can kick well but when you only touch the ball a few times a game what does it matter? Is he too small to be a back pocket? I don't know if he'll make it, at the moment I'd have to say no.
Kerridge - Worst game in navy blue. Missed targets and goals, didn't lay his normal amount of tackles either or pressure on the body. Hopefully will bonce back.
We had a 6 day break after playing hardened team, travelled to a warm humid ground, against a fast, skillful, inform team. They had two very good forward options Lynch and Martin that should both push for AA this season. Give a lot of other isdes the same conditions and they come up short too.
It's fine to call for people to be dropped, but who havbe we got to replace them. Rowe and Jammo both deserve to be dropped next week, but we have White, undersized (a possible Stringer opponent) Plowman, coming back of injury and needs to find touch and fitness in the VFL. Glass McCasker who didn't even get a practice match.
Do we drop Gibbs and bring in Clem Smith, V-Rainbow or Cunningham? Do we actually think this will help the team in the long run? Cause I doubt it will help now.
Agree with most of this. Great post Ray.
Graham - Does nice things but drifts out of the game too much, his lack of pace and size hurts too. Still has time but I'm guessing this is about as good as it will get.
You're writing off one of the few players that has improved over the last 9 months, after just 17 games, and saying he can improve no more? He's getting his hands on the ball at least 20 times a game and he can use it. If he's drifting out of the game, imagine what he can do when he stops drifting.
Agree with the rest of what you wrote but this is just crazy stuff.
The sooner Murphy is replaced as captain the better, we will go no where with him leading the way.
Forget about replacing as captain, let's trade the fraud. Probably has a cool 3 million sitting in his bank account, all for masquerading as a skilful mid for the last 10 years.
@ Raydan
Great post and you are 100% right, we are coming from a long way back, no doubt. I just didnt expect to see some of the "old" Carlton in our game. As you say, we have a new coaching panel who have come in and explained the way they want the game played. They have discussed it in meeting rooms and practiced it on the track for almost 6 months. The plan requires alot of on field direction from the leaders. Did you see Ablett telling players what to do, directing traffic? He was doing it constantly. Do you see our leaders do it? I say no. Simmo does it a little bit but these days, its more of a sook and berate rather than being instructional. They either don't get the plan and structures that are required or a too timid to say anything. I would expect someone like Jamo to be directing the defenders and controlling the back line. I see nothing like it, I would expect Murphy to be in the faces of the midfielders telling them what to do. I would expect Casboult directing his fwd line. I see none of this. This lack of onfield direction by the leaders translates to losing the shapes and turnovers or poor decisions. This is the disappointing thing for me right now. I didnt expect a win, but I want to see some improvement in areas I mentioned in my first post in this thread. It will take time no doubt, we are but 3 games into what is a very long road for us. BB needs to quickly find on field generals who will ensure his message is delivered.
You're writing off one of the few players that has improved over the last 9 months, after just 17 games, and saying he can improve no more? He's getting his hands on the ball at least 20 times a game and he can use it. Agree with the rest of what you wrote but this is just crazy stuff.
Haven't written him off, but I don't think he will get much better than what we see now. I hope I'm wrong, but all these comparisons to Mitchell are off the mark, as I said in my posts before mids hunt the ball, Nick seems to get around the ball. It's weird but even in Cripps' first season you could see the vision and the hands. I remember saying that his brain works faster than his skills allow, because he almost had it.
With Graham I think everything is there already, he'll improve with the team but he's a role player not a star.
If you can't see the structure and fluency we have with and without the ball then I give up talking football with people.
When we win the ball, we have loose players, chains of handballs, run and spread, it's just that we have too many players who a dumb enough to pick the right target or not good enough to execute.
Our fitness is suffering as we are very much competitive for most of the game, but when we get chances at goals we fluff them. Must hurt.
Last night was not good, but Gold Coast are 3-0 and will be tough to win up there.
Stay the course, if you can't see the improvement in the way we play, then follow something else. We need to start bringing In many of the guys mentioned to see what they can do, because good players are like Jacob Weitering.
I feel sorry for him alreadyz
Haven't written him off, but I don't think he will get much better than what we see now. I hope I'm wrong, but all these comparisons to Mitchell are off the mark, as I said in my posts before mids hunt the ball, Nick seems to get around the ball. It's weird but even in Cripps' first season you could see the vision and the hands. I remember saying that his brain works faster than his skills allow, because he almost had it.
With Graham I think everything is there already, he'll improve with the team but he's a role player not a star.
Absolutely he wont be a star but he'll certainly be a player and has plenty of upside. Has things most of our list doesn't have.
Absolutely he wont be a star but he'll certainly be a player and has plenty of upside. Has things most of our list doesn't have.
Like ability? :P
With Graham I think everything is there already, he'll improve with the team but he's a role player not a star.
That's what my wife said about me.... :)
We stayed in it while Gold Coast were playing like crap but when they got their act together it was all over.
Honestly, watching Carlton play is like having teeth pulled.
That's what my wife said about me.... :)
That's OK bratblue ...... know your role!
When we win the ball, we have loose players, chains of handballs, run and spread, it's just that we have too many players who a dumb enough to pick the right target or not good enough to execute.
We do, we seemed to have learned that, however we have no plan B when it was stopped and in the second half, GC pushed a couple of half backs up to make a wall, put some pressure on and our lack of skill showed out. That's why we went back to the long bomb so often as there seemed to be no 2nd option. When the players thought, which they did a couple of times mostly when Weitering had it they worked the ball around and picked their way through it.
BTW Whiley is the new Thornton! I'd like to see his meters gained stat becuase if it's not a minus Champion data will lose all credibility.
I don't understand the unexpected doom and gloom on here. We are a bottom team, we are rebuilding, we have a new system, new coach and nearly half the list is new, and we are coming from a low, low base.
There is a reason why Weitering was seen as our BOG, cause he can actually play! People point out our number 1 picks, as Taylor did last night on the broadcast, but look at the number of rookies on the list too. These were players overlooked as they had flaws in their game and when the pressure is on they can crumble.
Jammo, Rowe (rookied by Sydney), Touhy, Byrne, Casboult, Wright, Ed Curnow, Phillips. We are missing the tale teen early 20 picks from the last decade that normally will make up a big chunk of a side.
I will look at the young players and how they perform this year, because expecting a win is beyond all possibilities. I said before the season started these is a real chance that we could go 0-8 straight up, hopefully we do well against Essendon and maybe pinch one from Collingwood.
Cripps - Not right, these has been some voices saying his knee is not right, or it may have been the corky from last week but he still did better ythan a lot on the ground, he's just marked at a high level now.
Weitering - A third gamer that is just awesome. When he makes a mistake, it's a surprise. Just imagine how good he'll be in a few years time, controlling the backline, swapping opponents with Plowman and Glass-McCasker (steps on my rookie argument, I know).
Charlie Curnow - Wow, improved heaps from his first game, looked more comfortable in the game and his kick on goal in the first looked composed. I see him as a forward who will pinch hit in the mid field rather that a mid, he moves and thinks like a forward, where a mid will hunt the ball, Charlie seems to look ahead and gets to a position where the ball may go.
Boekhurst - A lot to like this year but still a way to go. Good disposal and seem confident with the ball this year, needs a bit less selfishness and a lot more chase, but I liked what I saw of his mistake in the first half, kicked the ball long but got back and marked the returning pass, where last year his head would have dropped and the ball gone. He needs to make it as I have a feeling that he will be all that's left of the trade from 2014 with both Whiley and Jacksh gone at seasons end.
Graham - Does nice things but drifts out of the game too much, his lack of pace and size hurts too. Still has time but I'm guessing this is about as good as it will get.
Buckley - What does Dylan actually do well? He can run swiftly, but does he lay tackles? He can kick well but when you only touch the ball a few times a game what does it matter? Is he too small to be a back pocket? I don't know if he'll make it, at the moment I'd have to say no.
Kerridge - Worst game in navy blue. Missed targets and goals, didn't lay his normal amount of tackles either or pressure on the body. Hopefully will bonce back.
We had a 6 day break after playing hardened team, travelled to a warm humid ground, against a fast, skillful, inform team. They had two very good forward options Lynch and Martin that should both push for AA this season. Give a lot of other isdes the same conditions and they come up short too.
It's fine to call for people to be dropped, but who havbe we got to replace them. Rowe and Jammo both deserve to be dropped next week, but we have White, undersized (a possible Stringer opponent) Plowman, coming back of injury and needs to find touch and fitness in the VFL. Glass McCasker who didn't even get a practice match.
Do we drop Gibbs and bring in Clem Smith, V-Rainbow or Cunningham? Do we actually think this will help the team in the long run? Cause I doubt it will help now.
All excellent points Raydan.
I'm starting to wonder if the website should change its name to the Cripps and Weitering supporters club!
The next 2 weeks don't look promising - Dogs in round 4 followed by Freo in Perth in round 5. Then in round 6 we have the bombers, as this is our best chance to notch up a win we might need to do the unthinkable and rest Cripps so that in round 6 he's ready to go at 100%.
Haven't written him off, but I don't think he will get much better than what we see now. I hope I'm wrong, but all these comparisons to Mitchell are off the mark, as I said in my posts before mids hunt the ball, Nick seems to get around the ball. It's weird but even in Cripps' first season you could see the vision and the hands. I remember saying that his brain works faster than his skills allow, because he almost had it.
With Graham I think everything is there already, he'll improve with the team but he's a role player not a star.
Graham hasn't had too many opportunities to show what he can do, but it isn't obvious what his standout ability is. League level players need to have a trick or a skill. Graham is undersized, without electric pace. His disposal is good, but he will have to improve his ability to use that disposal to put a team mate to advantage more often.
Buckly is a worry. He seemed to set up as a defensive forward but often trailed his opponent. Saad (i think it was) ran off him off the wing at one stage to run through the middle and create a goal. It was sloppy and smacked of lost concentration. In his fifth season so needs to make a big leap if he is to have a future.
Really liked charlie curnow. He gets to the right spots and gets seperation from his opponent to give his team mates an option. Oh and he can kick at league standard, i.e. low flat and fast. Our future spine is riding on last year's draft, but there is a lot to like so far. 2 potential KP players of high standard at each end.
Graham lacks a yard of pace and lacks the instant vision of the class slow mids ie Mitchell, Diesel....he takes a long look before he gets rid of the footy and gets tackled.
His skills by hand and foot are ok IMO and he can hit a target but unless he can get rid of the footy quicker he will be always be promising but never quite there...
However if we had Josh Kennedy and a Jake Stringer down forward you look more cohesive and those players demand the footy more which makes players like Graham thought process more simple....at the moment he looks up and its a dogs breakfast in terms of moving quality targets and I can understand why he would be hesitant to release the ball....
BTW Whiley is the new Thornton! I'd like to see his meters gained stat becuase if it's not a minus Champion data will lose all credibility.
Whiley, Graham, Wright and Kerridge are all fairly pedestrian, Murphy and Cripps are are only two quality mids which is way too few.
Curnow was probably our best last night but he rarely hurts sides, Weitering was good as well and Cripps' second half was very good, Touhy was OK but that's about where it finishes.
Of the rest there were just way too many basic skill errors, even Cripps missed the target by hand a couple of times.
It's going to be painful to watch if Bolton is going to implement the Hawthorn style of high possession numbers and accurate skills, until we can pick up three or four players who can execute them.
The less said about our front six the better, the fact that Liam Jones can't force his way into what is a dysfunctional attack shows what a poor recruiting decision he was.
Yes Moz.
BTW it's Weitering.
for the 2nd time - im the moz ;)
cimm, is a board apologist 8)
If you can't see the structure and fluency we have with and without the ball then I give up talking football with people.
When we win the ball, we have loose players, chains of handballs, run and spread, it's just that we have too many players who a dumb enough to pick the right target or not good enough to execute.
Our fitness is suffering as we are very much competitive for most of the game, but when we get chances at goals we fluff them. Must hurt.
Last night was not good, but Gold Coast are 3-0 and will be tough to win up there.
Stay the course, if you can't see the improvement in the way we play, then follow something else. We need to start bringing In many of the guys mentioned to see what they can do, because good players are like Jacob Weitering.
I feel sorry for him alreadyz
Agree with all this Shades.
Honourable losses were unacceptable under Malthouse but now they are? Get out of here!
Before the start of the match most would name our top 5 ranked players as Murphy, Cripps, Gibbs, Kruezer and probably and sadly Thomas.
None of them IMO came close to playing to their capacity. We played a likely finalist in heat At their home. Considering they kicked the last 6 of the match, while never looking likely we stayed within touch until the last.
Ablett lynch and their better players played well. Ours didn't. Under MM this would have ended in a 90 point drubbing.
Im disappointed but we have a lot of newbies including a young coach and we need to except this is where we are at. So many on here go on and on about trading out established players for early picks as the only way to go - then are the first to complain when we look like we have gone backwards 3 games into a new season :o. Then add in those who want Walker and Everett gone and then complain we no forward structure when more senior players are swapped for kids.
Can't have it both ways.
A bit of perspective needed.
Graham lacks a yard of pace and lacks the instant vision of the class slow mids ie Mitchell, Diesel....he takes a long look before he gets rid of the footy and gets tackled.
His skills by hand and foot are ok IMO and he can hit a target but unless he can get rid of the footy quicker he will be always be promising but never quite there...
I'd say that's fair enough but that will develop with experience.
However if we had Josh Kennedy and a Jake Stringer down forward you look more cohesive and those players demand the footy more which makes players like Graham thought process more simple....at the moment he looks up and its a dogs breakfast in terms of moving quality targets and I can understand why he would be hesitant to release the ball....
And he has shown when there is a target available he hits it. A few times he went inside 50m last night and he only had stationary targets to kick to.
Honourable losses were unacceptable under Malthouse but now they are? Get out of here!
Your mate Mick set us back years with his gutting of the list and pissing off of players. What we have now (or what we don't have) is down to him. Not Bolton's fault he has been here all of 2 minutes, Mick inherited a much better squad and destroyed it. So in short, yes, considering what he has been left with by his predecessor, honourable losses are acceptable.
I'll tell ya what we'd absolutely kill for a Laidler down back.....or a Betts up forward? Or maybe a quick forward of the ilk of Jeff Garlett.
2013-2015 happened. ;D
So many on here go on and on about trading out established players for early picks as the only way to go - then are the first to complain when we look like we have gone backwards 3 games into a new season :o. Then add in those who want Walker and Everett gone and then complain we no forward structure when more senior players are swapped for kids.
If you can't see the damage Everitt is doing when he is out there I give up.
If your established players are playing nowhere near their potential it's a no brainer to trade them out.
@Shawny
You're right mate, we do need to maintain perspective.
However, we have to realise that many of our senior players are now, in effect, just holding the fort whilst we develop the future. Most will be gone by the time we become a serious threat for the premiership. Several will likely go after this year.
We must therefore judge them in the light of that, and judge the team as a whole as an incubator for future talent. After last night I believe we currently have three serious prospects for the future in Weitering, Cripps and C. Curnow.
The rest, apart from the likely retirees, so far look at best to be mainly the foot soldiers to carry us through the development phase. From these ranks may emerge some more good future prospects e.g. Plowman who we have yet to see play senior football or Boekhorst who shows some promise at this stage. MacKay and others will also start to emerge this year hopefully.
The likes of Murph and Gibbs are also footsoldiers IMO, albeit senior ones who we must look to replace with the leadership for the future as soon as possible, even if they remain at the club as players for what remains of their careers.
It's a long process!
I understand all the arguments with regards to patience, and a new coach bringing new ideas, players adapting to a new game plan.... and young players needing time to develop....green shoots etc
I understand them because I've heard and seen them for the last 15 years.
So while I accept that Bolton needs a chance to prove that this time is different..... I'm convinced of nothing until we actually get results.(Been burnt too many times)
If you go through our list and ask yourself who is playing better than they were last year, you'll struggle to find many, and a lot have gone backwards.....
While the style of play is different (and perhaps a bit more attractive) the scoreboard results certainly aren't.
Last year after 3 rounds we'd kicked 224 points..... this year 195
Our percentage was 65.7 this year 61.3.
It's much too early to make solid judgements and there is a positiveness about the place that things will get better.
But you have to start showing some solid evidence because positive talk quickly evaporates if the results don't come.
I understand all the arguments with regards to patience, and a new coach bringing new ideas, players adapting to a new game plan.... and young players needing time to develop....green shoots etc
I understand them because I've heard and seen them for the last 15 years.
So while I accept that Bolton needs a chance to prove that this time is different..... I'm convinced of nothing until we actually get results.(Been burnt too many times)
If you go through our list and ask yourself who is playing better than they were last year, you'll struggle to find many, and a lot have gone backwards.....
While the style of play is different (and perhaps a bit more attractive) the scoreboard results certainly aren't.
Last year after 3 rounds we'd kicked 224 points..... this year 195
Our percentage was 65.7 this year 61.3.
It's much too early to make solid judgements and there is a positiveness about the place that things will get better.
But you have to start showing some solid evidence because positive talk quickly evaporates if the results don't come.
Too true.
The biggest improvement have come in the form of blokes who weren't on our list last year. Recruits (Kerridge, Wright) and draftees (Weitering, Curnofides).
Sadly, at this stage at least, the ones we need to improve Casboult, Everitt, Gibbs, Murphy....have all stagnated if not gone backwards.
If you can't see the damage Everitt is doing when he is out there I give up.
If your established players are playing nowhere near their potential it's a no brainer to trade them out.
Are you going to b!tch about it later on when you say we've traded out all our goal kickers??
Funny stat, all our leading goalkickers from 2002 onwards have left to play elsewhere except 2.
1. Walker
2. Everitt
This includes, McKernan, Fevola, Waite, Betts, Garlett.....doesn't even include Kennedy!
No one is saying Bolton is going to make it are they?
I told you guys we went way too early with the fluff 30 minutes documentary a few weeks back lol.
I understand all the arguments with regards to patience, and a new coach bringing new ideas, players adapting to a new game plan.... and young players needing time to develop....green shoots etc
I understand them because I've heard and seen them for the last 15 years.
So while I accept that Bolton needs a chance to prove that this time is different..... I'm convinced of nothing until we actually get results.(Been burnt too many times)
If you go through our list and ask yourself who is playing better than they were last year, you'll struggle to find many, and a lot have gone backwards.....
While the style of play is different (and perhaps a bit more attractive) the scoreboard results certainly aren't.
Last year after 3 rounds we'd kicked 224 points..... this year 195
Our percentage was 65.7 this year 61.3.
It's much too early to make solid judgements and there is a positiveness about the place that things will get better.
But you have to start showing some solid evidence because positive talk quickly evaporates if the results don't come.
I agree in principle with your post, but the bit in bold is crucial - it is, as you say, far too early make any judgments, but what amount of time is the right time to start making calls ?
Are you going to b!tch about it later on when you say we've traded out all our goal kickers??
I don't see Everitt as even just a player, he's a poonce, bloke doesn't like touching people and is playing professional football. If you are talking about Betts and co, they were more than just goalkickers. It's insulting to even compare them to Everitt.
Too true.
The biggest improvement have come in the form of blokes who weren't on our list last year. Recruits (Kerridge, Wright) and draftees (Weitering, Curnofides).
Sadly, at this stage at least, the ones we need to improve Casboult, Everitt, Gibbs, Murphy....have all stagnated if not gone backwards.
I think that by now we have already seen the best that these guys can offer. There could be some marginal improvement but that's about it AFAIC. As they say in the classics, "Don't hold yer breath".
I agree in principle with your post, but the bit in bold is crucial - it is, as you say, far too early make any judgments, but what amount of time is the right time to start making calls ?
I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.
I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion, professional footballer, due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them
Their own "education" was limited as a result.
In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)
I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.
We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.
I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.
I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion professional footballer due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them so their own "education" was limited as a result
In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)
I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.
We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.
agree with this - we are a bottom 4 side and we will win our 5th spoon in 14 years
apart from the Board and any remaining old admin existing under pratt, smorgon and sticks (which should all be wiped away) we should trade all our last remaining assets in murphy gibbs kruez simmo for draft picks and go young and bottom right out like st kilda did in early 2000. we run the risk of putting too much load on the young players - but from 3 games i have more confidence in cripps and no 23 as leaders than the frustrating introverts of jamo murph and gibbs
btw I dont understand why docherty gets raved about
the president must speak to daisy and demand his retirement - come to a financial arrangement to reduce our cap pressure and get him out of the joint
So then, is it possible to quantify the "results" that you insist on seeing before you "believe" ? What are the signs that we're looking for and what is the time limit in which we need to see these "signs" ? Do we assume that this season is a wipe out in terms of W/L ? Are we looking for a minimum number of wins ? Honorable losses ? 4 q efforts ? Development of the young players etc. ?
What will be give us the comfort of knowing we're in the right hands, on the right path ?
I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.
I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion professional footballer due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them so their own "education" was limited as a result
In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)
I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.
We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.
Spot on lods, the above two did not develop properly, I think they are just as much to blame they had blokes like Carrazzo, Simpson and Scotland showing them how it's done. How do they say.....you can lead a horse to water?
As they are now, they will ruin the development of the youngsters and teach them that you can pick and choose when you go. Let's ditch them and pronto.
So then, is it possible to quantify the "results" that you insist on seeing before you "believe" ? What are the signs that we're looking for and what is the time limit in which we need to see these "signs" ? Do we assume that this season is a wipe out in terms of W/L ? Are we looking for a minimum number of wins ? Honorable losses ? 4 q efforts ? Development of the young players etc. ?
What will be give us the comfort of knowing we're in the right hands, on the right path ?
We already have seen some signs.....our first year players look to be performing alright so far and our game style is far more attractive when executed correctly.
btw I dont understand why docherty gets raved about
I doubt you would understand most things.
I've changed my mind completely on this....
If we're going to entrust Bolton the rebuild /reset let him start from scratch.
I used to think it was important to retain players like Gibbs and Murphy to help guide the younger players.
The problem is that these were blokes who(apart from the Judd influence) were given little guidance about just what it takes to make a champion, professional footballer, due to the mediocrity of the playing group around them
Their own "education" was limited as a result.
In Cripps and Weitering it looks like we may a couple of natural leaders (at least by example.)
I think we'd lose little by moving most players who've been at the club longer than Cripps on.
They've been part of a pretty tumultuous period that we need a clear break from.
Some like Murphy and Gibbs will still have fair currency and provide us with more as trades than they do if we retain them.
We start with a fresh group, untarnished by the turmoil of our recent past, that Bolton can develop.
Yep starting to see that as well.
The Bulldogs were stronger by losing Cooney and Griffen, but kept the old heads in Murphy and Boyd who were around for the Bulldogs first tilt.
I doubt you would understand most things.
thanks for reading my post - ;)
I assume that you think its rosey, we can smell what the blues are cooking, we are coming and we are all bound by blue ::)
So, my two cents worth;
I'm with the crew who point out it's game 3 in a rebuilding year so let's take a breath. Yes our skills are still shizen at times but I definitely see an improvement in the way we're TRYING to play. We just don't have enough soldiers right now (still should have beaten $hitmond)
The players
Weitering BOG closely followed by E Curnow and maybe the Doc?
Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer Thomas and Simpson (poor games and no impact). On K-man I think I agree with those that suggest he should just ruck on his own.
Phillips tries but because he also has no impact and my previous point re Kreuzer means give him a rest.
Thought BOTH the Irish guys did OK. Tuohy gets plenty of whacks for some reason on this site but at least he can influence positively on occasions.
Cripps good considering he was struggling with some sort of injury.
C Curnow and Levi I'm happy for them to be persisted with.
Kerridge and BB started OK but got worse as the game went on?
Jammo and Rowe, real bad. Jammo has runs on the board but we can't afford to carry the two of them so for me Rowe HAS TO GO. Bring in anyone else with two legs.
Dylan did a couple of nice things and tries his guts out but just not up to it at the moment.
Whiley, why was he selected??? Gives us nothing. Go back.
Nick Graham a bit like Dylan but a smidge better, just.
Wright got a bit of it but went unnoticed. Another with a lack of influence. He is no Eddie.
Heaven help us against the doggies next week.
So then, is it possible to quantify the "results" that you insist on seeing before you "believe" ? What are the signs that we're looking for and what is the time limit in which we need to see these "signs" ? Do we assume that this season is a wipe out in terms of W/L ? Are we looking for a minimum number of wins ? Honorable losses ? 4 q efforts ? Development of the young players etc. ?
What will be give us the comfort of knowing we're in the right hands, on the right path ?
Short answer....we'll have a fair idea by the end of the year.
If we're playing good competitive football
If we're winning a few games.
If we can say a number of players had much better years than last year and the team is coming together nicely as a unit then we're probably on the right track.
You have to look at the season as a whole to make a fair judgement...that doesn't mean you cant be on the lookout for the odd "fungus" amongst the positive green shoots
What you would hope to see is a gradual improvement as the season progresses.
That may still happen....but there are a couple of warning signs.
The lack of improvement, in fact a regression, from established Carlton players.
Is everyone buying what Bolton is selling?
The lack of scoring power.
Here's where you get your standard....if these things can be turned around then the results in terms of scores/wins should come.
.
The attitude that "Everything will be alright because things are different this time" is nothing more than a guess.
If you go back through threads over the years you see it time and again.
It's great to have faith and hopefully we'll look back at this period in the latter part of the season and wonder why we were worried.
But there's nothing worse than false hope...the "green shoots" that turn brown after a hard season.
There's nothing more soul destroying than things going "pear-shaped" when we've been told we're going about it the right way this time.
I'm still very positive about Bolton but I'm now of the opinion that his job will be a lot harder if we retain players who have been part of such a damaged culture...good players though they may be.
Lods they are good players, but are they the right players is the question we need to ask.
The biggest problem BB has to overcome IMO is that he is selling a reset or rebuild or whatever you want to call it and that has been underlined and emphasised by The Judge and Trigg repeatedly - no shortcuts!
That's great for the younger and newer players who can see a possible "land of opportunity". For the older and more established guys all it means is uncertainty and doubt as to whether or not they will be a part of the new world, and what their roles might be in it, if indeed they will have one. Only the very strongest of them mentally are likely to fully embrace that and flourish IMO. It is no doubt a painful transition for the club.
Thought BOTH the Irish guys did OK. Tuohy gets plenty of whacks for some reason on this site but at least he can influence positively on occasions.
Im abit of a 2E basher, my only criticism is that he should be taken out of defence and played up the ground. He could be a wing-HF weapon potentially. I think his defensive skills have not developed to a level that warrants leaving him there. He has skills however that could be used up the ground.
Lods they are good players, but are they the right players is the question we need to ask.
Yep
Are they the right players for us....going forward?
Some of them may even benefit from the change and tear it up for their new sides...but have we seen the best of them as Carlton players.
If that's the judgment move them on with no regrets.
Im abit of a 2E basher, my only criticism is that he should be taken out of defence and played up the ground. He could be a wing-HF weapon potentially. I think his defensive skills have not developed to a level that warrants leaving him there. He has skills however that could be used up the ground.
Great in theory but who takes his spot down back?
The biggest problem BB has to overcome IMO is that he is selling a reset or rebuild or whatever you want to call it and that has been underlined and emphasised by The Judge and Trigg repeatedly - no shortcuts!
That's great for the younger and newer players who can see a possible "land of opportunity". For the older and more established guys all it means is uncertainty and doubt as to whether or not they will be a part of the new world, and what their roles might be in it, if indeed they will have one. Only the very strongest of them mentally are likely to fully embrace that and flourish IMO. It is no doubt a painful transition for the club.
Very well surmised status quo but one I do think we have to go through. Bolton is about building a Hawks, Cats style set up in terms of list, culture etc on the way to success. No stop gap measures with anything otherwise we end up like Richmond in a couple years. Ironically they have ended up like us.
Very well surmised status quo but one I do think we have to go through. Bolton is about building a Hawks, Cats style set up in terms of list, culture etc on the way to success. No stop gap measures with anything otherwise we end up like Richmond in a couple years. Ironically they have ended up like us.
Too true JC. We just have to hold our nerve as a club; it will be tough and I felt pretty down last night after the game. Better today though.
Sad part is it's inevitably our leaders that go missing......
Gibbe Murphy Special K Thomas Jamo - all shameful.
What a dud bunch of #1 draft picks!
Move 'en on ASAP.
Murphy aint' a Captain's b..t.ole. That was a huge mistake!
Worst effort from 22 men i've seen in a long time.
Unfortunately for Matty K, there are very few excuses left, he's just not very good! If only the Pies hadn't pulled the deal!!
Sad part is it's inevitably our leaders that go missing......
Gibbe Murphy Special K Thomas Jamo - all shameful.
What a dud bunch of #1 draft picks!
Move 'en on ASAP.
Murphy aint' a Captain's b..t.ole. That was a huge mistake!
Worst effort from 22 men i've seen in a long time.
So, who is a Captain's b..t.ole? Simmo? Touhey? I think you'll find there ain't any other options. Besides, the players wanted him. New leaders will emerge in time.
Unfortunately for Matty K, there are very few excuses left, he's just not very good! If only the Pies hadn't pulled the deal!!
Remember his form late last year? Outstanding. That game against Melbourne especially.
What has changed from then to now?
I think the presence of a second ruckman in the team is having a dramatic effect again.
The same happened when they played him with Warnock.
Put him in the ruck and let him ruck all day.... this has the added advantage of being able to drop Phillips. Cas gets a run as a relief ruckman. The whole team looks better.
There are lots of teams still running with 1 ruckman despite the rule change. Why aren't we?
Nth Melb, Melb, Bulldogs, Coll, Rich, StK, Adel, GWS, GC, etc. NO ruckman!
Remember his form late last year? Outstanding. That game against Melbourne especially.
What has changed from then to now?
I think the presence of a second ruckman in the team is having a dramatic effect again.
The same happened when they played him with Warnock.
Put him in the ruck and let him ruck all day.... this has the added advantage of being able to drop Phillips. Cas gets a run as a relief ruckman. The whole team looks better.
There are lots of teams still running with 1 ruckman despite the rule change. Why aren't we?
Nth Melb, Melb, Bulldogs, Coll, Rich, StK, Adel, GWS, GC, etc. NO ruckman!
Saw McEvoy take two marks inside 30m for 2 goals today. Our blokes can't seem to catch the pill.
Why are there so many people cracking the sads here ??
We finished last in 2016, we turned over 14 players from our list & we appointed a new coach - do you really believe we are going to be premiership contenders all of a sudden ??
FFS, get a grip will ya !!!
Due to the past 15-20 years of inept recruiting & player development, we are virtually starting up the club once again and it is going to take some time (ie. years) before all of this hard work starts to show.
Due to the salary cap & draft, there are no shortcuts these days so how about everyone take a chill pill and be content with the exciting young players we now have on the list ??
It may take some time but believe me, it will happen !!
Why are there so many people cracking the sads here ??
We finished last in 2016, we turned over 14 players from our list & we appointed a new coach - do you really believe we are going to be premiership contenders all of a sudden ??
FFS, get a grip will ya !!!
Due to the past 15-20 years of inept recruiting & player development, we are virtually starting up the club once again and it is going to take some time (ie. years) before all of this hard work starts to show.
Due to the salary cap & draft, there are no shortcuts these days so how about everyone take a chill pill and be content with the exciting young players we now have on the list ??
It may take some time but believe me, it will happen !!
had to check what year it was
Why are there so many people cracking the sads here ??
We finished last in 2016, we turned over 14 players from our list & we appointed a new coach - do you really believe we are going to be premiership contenders all of a sudden ??
FFS, get a grip will ya !!!
Due to the past 15-20 years of inept recruiting & player development, we are virtually starting up the club once again and it is going to take some time (ie. years) before all of this hard work starts to show.
Due to the salary cap & draft, there are no shortcuts these days so how about everyone take a chill pill and be content with the exciting young players we now have on the list ??
It may take some time but believe me, it will happen !!
Top post!
Couldn't agree more.
Too many on here react to the now. Weekly results mean stuff all in a full rebuild of the proportions we have been forced to undertake.
As long as I see effort and signs the kids and younger players are improving or at least showing signs I'm happy.
The experienced players on the list are obviously viewed differently. If they don't preform they should be traded out. Simple as that.
Hang tough guys after all this is what we all were crying out for when MM was at the helm.
I think we were awful last night. Watching it at the ground I thought our biggest problem was our decision making. Considering how inept our kicking and hand balling was, our non-existent forward line and our key defenders inadequacies, this should indicate how poor our decision making was. The worst in my opinion was Rowe. The sooner Plowman gets fit the better. Hopefully Weitering, Plowman and Glass-McCasker are our first choice defenders by the end of the season. I am happy that BB called out the players effort in the last quarter. The club has been making excuses for players not giving 100% for 100% of the time for too long. I hope this is an indication that this is going to stop and they are going to address the cultural issues within the club. If so, something good could come out of last nights debacle.
My typo had 2016 when it should of read 2015 but you all knew what I meant.
The biggest problem BB has to overcome IMO is that he is selling a reset or rebuild or whatever you want to call it and that has been underlined and emphasised by The Judge and Trigg repeatedly - no shortcuts!
That's great for the younger and newer players who can see a possible "land of opportunity". For the older and more established guys all it means is uncertainty and doubt as to whether or not they will be a part of the new world, and what their roles might be in it, if indeed they will have one. Only the very strongest of them mentally are likely to fully embrace that and flourish IMO. It is no doubt a painful transition for the club.
I thought Bolton in his presser gave the impression he is stuck with the list he has and said he all he can do is coach to improve them but I get the feeling another large cull is on the way....
I thought Bolton in his presser gave the impression he is stuck with the list he has and said he all he can do is coach to improve them but I get the feeling another large cull is on the way....
as I said before, the only thing I am looking forward to this year is who we draft trade and delist
Why are there so many people cracking the sads here ??
We finished last in 2016, we turned over 14 players from our list & we appointed a new coach - do you really believe we are going to be premiership contenders all of a sudden ??
FFS, get a grip will ya !!!
Due to the past 15-20 years of inept recruiting & player development, we are virtually starting up the club once again and it is going to take some time (ie. years) before all of this hard work starts to show.
Due to the salary cap & draft, there are no shortcuts these days so how about everyone take a chill pill and be content with the exciting young players we now have on the list ??
It may take some time but believe me, it will happen !!
on what basis do you believe what you are saying?
I'm prepared to judge over a season. I'm prepared to give the club time....but what the club has achieved through the rebuild/reset statements is that we have been conditioned to accept weekly results as unimportant.
I see that as a clever strategy.
What it's designed to do is buy time.
You see the club really has no idea if the rebuild will actually work.
They can put in plans, and it would appear that there has been considerable thought go into these.... but the success or failure of any rebuild is dependent on so many variable factors such as injury, sound selections, proper development, player satisfaction, team unity etc that they can't guarantee things will work out as they hope.
The only indication that we're on the right track comes from on field performance....you can accept poor performance while we're in the early stages of building and uniting a team (like now) but we also need to see positive developments as we go along.
At the moment there's a lot of scrutiny on some older members of our list.
How will that play out as the pressure on these players increases and how will those "redundancies" be managed in a way that doesn't upset the apple-cart.
This rebuild isn't easy... and it's not guaranteed.
I thought Bolton in his presser gave the impression he is stuck with the list he has and said he all he can do is coach to improve them but I get the feeling another large cull is on the way....
I think that's right EB and there will be another cull for sure. What I am saying is that this cull may go deep in terms of the more senior guys. Most of them are pretty much already as good as they are going to be - how much improvement can BB get out of them? BB and SOS will be keen to move on as many of them as practically possible via retirement, trade and delisting in order to get more focus on improving the list. I think the senior players, especially those struggling to adapt to BB's game plan, would realise that and as a result be very nervous about their futures at the club.
A few of the relative newcomers, especially those recruited pre-SOS, may also be in the same boat.
Top post!
Couldn't agree more.
Too many on here react to the now. Weekly results mean stuff all in a full rebuild of the proportions we have been forced to undertake.
As long as I see effort and signs the kids and younger players are improving or at least showing signs I'm happy.
The experienced players on the list are obviously viewed differently. If they don't preform they should be traded out. Simple as that.
Hang tough guys after all this is what we all were crying out for when MM was at the helm.
X 2.
No pain no gain.
This will take a couple of years not a couple of weeks.
Here's a few tips to preserve your sanity in the short term:
Celebrate every contest we win.
Admire our younger players when they beat a seasoned player.
Cheer loudly and proudly when we kick a goal.
Welcome our first gamers like we believe they'll succeed.
Go nuts when we win a game.
Knock yourself out when we have a NAB rs nomination.
Then, when we finish at or near the bottom of the ladder. Be scintillated when you see the top talent we draft. And then get excited about what they will add to Cripps, Weits, Charlie, Harry, SOSOS, and co.
Hang fat Bluebaggers. We're all in this together.
(And yes, I'm definitely a glass half full type. But hey why not!)
Could be funny when we actually do win a game, with more players inside the circle than out singing the song. ;)
I probably see it a little differently to most, we are getting it into the forward a lot of times, so something must be happening right.
If we can just get some forward line structure with say just 3-4 players working together then things might turn around.
It's a big ask I know but what we are doing in the forward line now isn't working.
By the way who is our forward coach?
Could be funny when we actually do win a game, with more players inside the circle than out singing the song. ;)
I probably see it a little differently to most, we are getting it into the forward a lot of times, so something must be happening right.
If we can just get some forward line structure with say just 3-4 players working together then things might turn around.
It's a big ask I know but what we are doing in the forward line now isn't working.
By the way who is our forward coach?
No forward coach is going to fix our problems unless he is a development genius, the problems are ball use and decision making.
I think if the club had a panic room a dozen players would be locking themselves in there daily!
In the first couple of weeks there were plenty of good signs, little gives and gets, sneaky underground kicks and handballs, shepherds for team-mates even! Get the ball forward, disrupt the opponent.
It mostly stopped on the Gold Coast Saturday night, and it wasn't the newbies who are to blame. It's the older entrenched playing group who revert to doing stuff by bad habits that are regressing. They seem to be so mentally damaged from their past it has become a tragedy! Saturday night reminded me so much of that last season from TBird or Russell, you just knew their time was up despite the odd good outing! Old dogs, new tricks, but only sometimes! ;)
X 2.
No pain no gain.
This will take a couple of years not a couple of weeks.
Here's a few tips to preserve your sanity in the short term:
Celebrate every contest we win.
Admire our younger players when they beat a seasoned player.
Cheer loudly and proudly when we kick a goal.
Welcome our first gamers like we believe they'll succeed.
Go nuts when we win a game.
Knock yourself out when we have a NAB rs nomination.
Then, when we finish at or near the bottom of the ladder. Be scintillated when you see the top talent we draft. And then get excited about what they will add to Cripps, Weits, Charlie, Harry, SOSOS, and co.
Hang fat Bluebaggers. We're all in this together.
(And yes, I'm definitely a glass half full type. But hey why not!)
I like this post. Cheered me up :)
Anyone else think Curnow is the opposite of Jones? Manages to find himself in the play if he's somewhere near the contest. First forward since Fev with that quality. I'm excited about this kid, so glad we weren't scared off by the off field crap.
This rebuild isn't easy... and it's not guaranteed.
It's hard to win a GF. We can only progress and with some good planning and a bit of luck end up where we hope to be.
No forward coach is going to fix our problems unless he is a development genius, the problems are ball use and decision making.
I think if the club had a panic room a dozen players would be locking themselves in there daily!
In the first couple of weeks there were plenty of good signs, little gives and gets, sneaky underground kicks and handballs, shepherds for team-mates even! Get the ball forward, disrupt the opponent.
It mostly stopped on the Gold Coast Saturday night, and it wasn't the newbies who are to blame. It's the older entrenched playing group who revert to doing stuff by bad habits that are regressing. They seem to be so mentally damaged from their past it has become a tragedy! Saturday night reminded me so much of that last season from TBird or Russell, you just knew their time was up despite the odd good outing! Old dogs, new tricks, but only sometimes! ;)
I hear you LP, we all saw that first quarter against the Hawks in the NAB cup. We were great, so they can do it but as you say we revert to old habits. :(
heard a bit of the radio commentary at half time - we were apparently kicking it long and high into our forward line, where Cas was the only target against 2+ Suns players. They forgot to add the bit at the bottom - doing it since 2002.
I see the forward line as the biggest issue, as that where the reward for effort should come, but at the moment it isn't coming at all. When the reward is there, confidence spreads and everything seems to improve.
Anyone else think Curnow is the opposite of Jones? Manages to find himself in the play if he's somewhere near the contest. First forward since Fev with that quality. I'm excited about this kid, so glad we weren't scared off by the off field crap.
Will be an unstoppable beast.
I like this post. Cheered me up :)
This.
All the talk/print in this morning's papers is lauding the exciting, attacking style of play that has characterised the first 3 rounds. "Fast", "unpredictable", "joyous" are some of the adjectives. A return to "attack at all costs" type of football.
The Blue Boys obviously didn't get the memo from HQ. Apart from a couple of passages against the Tiggers you'd have to say we've been tentative, dour, predictable.
Still, as much as it pains me - correction, sickens - me to say it, I have to acknowledge and agree with the recent pragmatic posts - we're at Year One of a 5 year plan. Ain't gonna be any success for a couple of years - a lot more mediocrity to come.
One HELL of a challenge confronts BB. A recent birthday actually has me wondering if I'll be around to celebrate future Flags. I guess, when it does come, my kids will hopefully appreciate it all the more as they've grown up having been forced to stick with The Blues through thick and thin. They've never known anything except famine - apart from one year when the umpires in WA stuck it to us. But they're young, they'll get over it. Unlike me.
Ain't gonna be any success for a couple of years - a lot more mediocrity to come.
Champions exhibit champion qualities well before they become champions.
Same as teams, so i dont accept that mediocrity and results are the same thing.
We need to work harder than anyone else, we need to prepare better than anyone else. We need to manage our lists better than anyone else. We need to strive to better everything we do.
We can do all this regardless of what happens on the scoreboard. We may need to accept that we wont often get the results we want but we dont have to accept mediocrity in how we apply ourselves in every aspect of the game and how we approach improvement.
Our time will come.
I'm prepared to judge over a season. I'm prepared to give the club time....but what the club has achieved through the rebuild/reset statements is that we have been conditioned to accept weekly results as unimportant.
I see that as a clever strategy.
What it's designed to do is buy time.
You see the club really has no idea if the rebuild will actually work.
They can put in plans, and it would appear that there has been considerable thought go into these.... but the success or failure of any rebuild is dependent on so many variable factors such as injury, sound selections, proper development, player satisfaction, team unity etc that they can't guarantee things will work out as they hope.
The only indication that we're on the right track comes from on field performance....you can accept poor performance while we're in the early stages of building and uniting a team (like now) but we also need to see positive developments as we go along.
At the moment there's a lot of scrutiny on some older members of our list.
How will that play out as the pressure on these players increases and how will those "redundancies" be managed in a way that doesn't upset the apple-cart.
This rebuild isn't easy... and it's not guaranteed.
Im replying to you Lods, because you are talking about philosophy and strategy.
There is something that you have tied to them in terms of success, but there is a problem.
You didnt define it, and if you have you seem to have tied the success aspect to a premiership.
Now like everyone here, I am under no illusions. We play football, to win matches and ultimately premierships.
Life is ultimately cruel. You can try your hardest and make the best decision possible, yet still come up short in terms of being succesful.
This is where our football club has fallen over, repeatedly.
we have strived to become succesful, by winnning. Quickly.
We need to reclassify success to something different so that we can actually start achieving things and with any luck, premierships will follow.
That is to be the best football club that we can be. That means making good decisions, based upon the right things. Developing talent. Drafting the best players we can. Engineering the best trade deals we can. Looking after Carlton people the best we can. Selling memberships the best we can. Building a stadium the best we can. Building a harder, better, faster, stronger football club, AS BEST WE CAN.
This is why Saturday night hurt. It was seen to not be doing things, as best we can. But we can learn from it, as best we can, and improve from it as best we can.
Success is never guaranteed.
Premierships are never guaranteed.
All we can do is do what we can with what we have, and get 100% out of it, which is why we are looking at our elder players and moving them on, but there are intangibles we need to be wary of. Simply replacing whats broken doesnt mean we get an upgrade. Which is why we need to focus on doing the best we can.
Which is why we dont worry about the results (or at least those of us who have accepted we were and still are a club that is working out how best to move forward don't).
All we want to see is a side that is doing the best it can. To provide our young players with an education to become the best they can. To provide an environment where people want to be, to become part of, and then simply become the best they can. Thats when we can measure our club as succesful. Richmond and Collingwood wont be winning a premiership any time soon, but they are focussed on being the best football clubs that they can, and for it, they have big supporter bases, and players that want to play for them.
For too long we have searched for an elusive premiership, and simply need to focus on being the best we can, and we start with simple things. Handballing the best we can. Kicking the footy the best we can. Running the best we can. Tackling the best we can. Marking the best we can, and scoring the best we can. In time, we will improve. Will it win a premiership? No guarantee, but I think we will garner more support if we simply do
the best we can and that will ultimately be the only way we will get near a premiership anyway. You dont get there by not being the best you can be, but it wont hurt your chances.
...
One HELL of a challenge confronts BB. A recent birthday actually has me wondering if I'll be around to celebrate future Flags. I guess, when it does come, my kids will hopefully appreciate it all the more as they've grown up having been forced to stick with The Blues through thick and thin. They've never known anything except famine - apart from one year when the umpires in WA stuck it to us. But they're young, they'll get over it. Unlike me.
Well, happy birthday to you. Whilst the recent "famine" is hard to take, we've fared better than a lot of other clubs over the journey. Small consolation to some, no consolation to others, but it is true.
Weitering and Charlie were again the green shoots to get excited about this week. Weitering's NAB rising star nomination was well earned and deserved.
I was really disappointed with Murphy and Gibbs games on Saturday night, as 2 of our senior leaders they set the tone for others to follow, but I wouldn't want the other players to follow the tone they set on Sat night.
Some of our other leaders in Docherty, Simpson and E. Curnow showed much more desire and intent.
There were 2 very simple problems I saw at the game.
1. Our zone defense is far to loose, there were way too many uncontested marks and possessions allowed that could have easily been contested and therefor either held up or even turned over. Just a little more thought and maybe effort about where to position yourself in relation to your opponent could make a huge difference.
2. After a mark or a free kick, especially now with the new 10m rule, I believe it is imperative that we either handball off to a running player or play on at EVERY opportunity. By going back over the mark you are giving away meterage and time that allows the opposition to set up their defense. Even if a player is a slow runner, he should at least look to move the ball on quickly by hand or foot.
Oh, another team thing I noticed, and I know this is not limited to just Carlton, but this hurt us probably half a dozen times on Sat night, we got the ball on the rebound, someone is tearing through the middle of the ground, they look up and there is absolutely no one in the fwd 50 to kick it to !!!
IMO this is absolute madness, each time the player with the ball had to stop, prop and go sideways. It was ridiculous. IMO no matter where the ball is on the ground, we should always keep a player deep in our fwd 50.
We had 5-6 turnovers that could have been an easy kick to a leading forward, one out, who if he marks it would have a relatively easy shot on goal. Instead, many of those times the ball didn't even get into our fwd 50.
Ciaren Byrne looked a little lost out there at times, he was trying hard though and I would persist with him.
Daisy had a some shocking moments, his kicking at times.......
Whiley may not be our most talented player, but I saw him working his but off trying to make position or plays and playing his role. I was impressed with his endeavor.
Geez I love watching Simmo, he is all heart, and Docherty is going to be a good clone of him with perhaps just a little more polish !!
Charlie is going to be a very good player for us, he is still finding his feet a bit, but the signs are there. He played leading up the ground a fair bit on Sat night, I would like to see how he goes if he were to spend more time inside the fwd 50. He could be very dangerous if played the right way I reckon, and we all know how much we need a goal kicker at the moment!
Said all along, Kreuzer is crap when he has to share duties. Means he goes forward too much where he's no good As our only ruckman, with help from Casboult, which works for both of them, Kreuzer then is a much better player. Kreuzer had no physical presence tonight. Compare that with Casboult, who either marked, contested or smashed up bodies. Sent a couple from ground not to return.
Hopefully Plowman, Jaksch and Sumner have good ones. Then we can drop Jammo and Rowe. Happy to go with Weitering and Plowman in the key positions, with Jaksch playing forward with Casboult.
You're a mind reader laj ;) Couldnt agree more.
Here's a stinky fact, Matthew Wright has shown more in 3 games than Daisy has in 3 years. And would be on a third of his wage.
Gibbs and Murph may as well have been replaced with packets of aeroplane jelly as the jelly would've offered more.
Kreuze needs to play 90% in the ruck and be the extra mid and protector for Cripps, who is being bashed from pillar to post.
Buckley needs to play off HB, sadly not a forward's a-hole
Boekhorst needs to play off a wing, not a forward's a-hole
Rowe and Jamo look shot, but there is nobody else apart from Jones and Jaksch. Here's hoping Plowman comes along quicker than later
Need Sumner to be that goalkicking wing/HF
Gallucci small crumbing forward
Phillips out.
Army's pace and seniority would handy but he only has a year or 2 left. Might be wrong
Get Cunningham in! We are as slow as a pregnant snail, need foot speed.
Persist with C. Curnow
Gorringe, Gowers, Glass-McCasker, Foster? Where are they at.
Nicky G, Kerridge and Lamb are in our best 22 easily :o
Viojo-Rainbow should play, stick him in the guts, he'll either sink or swim. Good kick
We play better with White Walker in the side, but we cant rely on them forever, are they stunting development?
Whiley, a good VFL player
Tutt and Clem Smith. Cant imagine them making us a better side
Sosos and Pins McKay, 2-3 years away. In the VFL on slow roast
Must change it up a bit so i'd like to see, Skittles, Plowman, Sumner Cunningham, Jacksh and Jones IN
and Rowe, Whiley, Jamo, Phillips, Buckley and Boekhorst OUT
Bucks and Boeky need confidence in the magoos not being played out of position
Cas 2nd ruck
Jones KJ and Plow rotating back with Weits
Cunningham, Skittles and Sumner giving our mids a different structure
@ Amers
Great analysis mate. The footage that really shows all this shape stuff is the behind the goals. Fox footy showed some footage that showed how crapola Coll were on the weekend at defending space with shape.
Weitering and Charlie were again the green shoots to get excited about this week. Weitering's NAB rising star nomination was well earned and deserved.
Oh, another team thing I noticed, and I know this is not limited to just Carlton, but this hurt us probably half a dozen times on Sat night, we got the ball on the rebound, someone is tearing through the middle of the ground, they look up and there is absolutely no one in the fwd 50 to kick it to !!!
IMO this is absolute madness, each time the player with the ball had to stop, prop and go sideways. It was ridiculous. IMO no matter where the ball is on the ground, we should always keep a player deep in our fwd 50.
Have to agree with this. In round one not only did we suffer from this problem but rather frustratingly Richmond did the exact opposite to us in the last quarter. When Richmond charged back they always seemed to have 1 player (usually Riewoldt) back well past our zone and giving themselves a lot of space. Every time Richmond successfully moved the ball quickly our zone couldn't roll back quick enough to pick up the player and it often led to the big mismatches like Simpson trying to spoil at KP forward with 20kgs and 15cms on him.
Unfortunately the Doggies seem to have a similar set up and leave Stringer back deep a lot. Since they are really good this year at quick ball movement I can't see it going well for us unless Bolton makes a change and keeps a defender back to man him up as well as someone forward so we have a target to kick to.
Yep, poor at organising our zone defence and turning the ball over in our forward half is certainly a lethal cocktail atm.
What's the point of zipping through the central corridor if the ball carriers look up and there arent any targets within 75 of goal?
What's the point of zipping through the central corridor if the ball carriers look up and there arent any targets within 75 of goal?
On the bright side, if there is anyone there they'll be in space. Comes down to how you set up.