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Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #75
So?

From what I heard, the query is whether he had some assistance in his preparations.  One obvious source of assistance is on dark web chatrooms on which he could have obtained advice about modifying semi-automatics using the legally-available butt-stock device he used and general firearms and explosives advice.  I can imagine survivalist, militia and alt-right guys would have been only too willing to share their accrued knowledge in taking on the global conspiracy using such things as lipstick cameras to give early warning if the forces of evil try to storm their bunkers. 

AFAIK, there has been absolutely no suggestion from police that a 2nd shooter was involved or even possibly involved.

Quote
THE sheriff leading the investigation into the Las Vegas shooting believes the gunman was not acting alone and that he most likely had an accomplice.
Speaking to reporters on Wednesday afternoon, sheriff Joseph Lombardo said “he had to have some help”.
Mr Lombardo said investigators did not have any other suspects at this stage, but they were “determined to find out if there was”.
“You look at the weapon obtaining, the different amounts of Tannerite [explosives] available, do you think this was all accomplished on his own?
“On face value, you’ve got to make the assumption he had to have some help at some point, and we want to ensure that that’s the answer.”   

Mr Lombardo’s frank comments put into doubt an explanation previously put forward by authorities that he was a “lone wolf”.
In explaining his theory, the sheriff mentioned Mr Paddock’s arsenal of 47 guns and a “plethora” of ammunition, plus his two Nevada residences. He also made mention of his girlfriend, former Australian resident Marilou Danley, who has been named as a “person of interest” in the investigation.
“Maybe he’s a super guy that was working this all out on his own, but it would be hard for me to believe that,” the sheriff said.
“Here’s the reason why: put two and two together. Another residence in Reno with several firearms, electronics and everything else associated with large amounts of ammo, a place in Mesquite, we know that he had a girlfriend. Do you think this is all self-facing? An individual, without talking to somebody, just sequestered among themselves? I mean, come on folks.”

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #76
There is some evidence (a hotel receipt) apparently to suggest that the shooter dined in his room at the Mandalay Bay with another person on the night of 28th Sept, which is the night before he allegedly checked into the hotel. Could be a mistake but it certainly needs to be investigated.
Of course it should be investigated.  And his friends, family and associates need to be thoroughly debriefed (as is now happening to his partner) and investigate if necessary.  But there's a pretty obvious possibility that a rich guy who is perhaps on the eve of his own death might splurge on a high-class hooker for a night. 

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #77
Of course it should be investigated.  And his friends, family and associates need to be thoroughly debriefed (as is now happening to his partner) and investigate if necessary.  But there's a pretty obvious possibility that a rich guy who is perhaps on the eve of his own death might splurge on a high-class hooker for a night.

I'm sure there are all sorts of possibilities, obvious and otherwise. Some are even called conspiracy theories.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #78
There is a significant difference between a conspiracy and an incorrect or inconclusive investigation.

There is nothing to suggest there was not a 2nd shooter and if there was, there is nothing to suggest that the officials are covering it up. The suggestion of a cover up/conspiracy is clickbait for junky fake news sites looking for hits/$$.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL


Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #79
MBB, that's consistent with what I posted.  So far, it appears that his many firearms purchases were made by him personally but he kept them under the radar by spreading out those purchases over time and a number of different gunshops in a couple of states.  It's pretty sick that people can seek out advice on the internet about how to make bombs and modify weapons to kill people more effectively.  The joys of an uncensored internet, I guess. 

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #80
“You look at the weapon obtaining, the different amounts of Tannerite [explosives] available, do you think this was all accomplished on his own?
“On face value, you’ve got to make the assumption he had to have some help at some point, and we want to ensure that that’s the answer.” 

You mean somebody sold him the stuff, probably an Islamist International Arms dealer, they killed and wounded hundreds to cover their tracks in the assassination of a person who had proof of Russia's involvement in the Trump election!  ::)

Or, a fat America Sheriff cannot believe one man could carry all that stuff to the 32nd floor, it must have been assisted by the Bellboy!  ::)

This media and internet speculation is rubbish, the USA and the NRA cannot possibly allow the reality of this to sink in, because Americans never do anything wrong and it's not the guns fault!

They are fat because the food companies do it to them, people are killed by the devil not guns or other people, cars kill people because of acts of God, climate change is because of the sun, a multinational company gave them cancer, a terrorist used imported illegal weapons, micro-chips are put in their teeth fillings by the government! ::)



Reality is Occam's Razor. A forkwit, probably a mentally ill forkwit with money to burn, slowly snapped and shot dead a bunch of people in a country where weapons of mass destruction can be purchased with an appropriately presented drivers license and delivered with a picnic hamper a few hours after a cooling off period!

FFS, some banks or credit unions still hand out weapons when you open a new account!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #81
Yourself and DJC went too early with the mocking of fellow posters.

Police are now saying they don't believe he acted alone.

I don't know that I mocked other posters but I did mock the conspiracy theorists who, for whatever reason, want to believe that there was more than one shooter.

As for the carnage caused, any competent shooter familiar with his/her weapons and with 100 round magazines could manage that.  Fortunately, the shooter didn't have military training or the toll could have been much worse.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #82
I don't know that I mocked other posters but I did mock the conspiracy theorists who, for whatever reason, want to believe that there was more than one shooter.

As for the carnage caused, any competent shooter familiar with his/her weapons and with 100 round magazines could manage that.  Fortunately, the shooter didn't have military training or the toll could have been much worse.

Thanks for sharing your ballistics expertise with us DJC. I think I'll wait for the official version.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #83
Thanks for sharing your ballistics expertise with us DJC. I think I'll wait for the official version.

DJC is correct, anybody can modify an existing carbine to be rapid fire. Kits are available commercially for popular brands.

[flash=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/v/U7DTjSla-O8[/flash]

Also sniper type weapons are widely available. In my younger days I was a sporting shooter, I got rid of my weapons when my first child was born. At that time I had rifles including Ruger Mini-14, SIG Sniper rifle and Lee Enfield 303 jungle editions. The Ruger could be modified with a 100 round circular clip and bit of bent metal not much more than a hair or paper clip to deliver 7 rounds per second. It wouldn't last long like that, but long enough to empty a full clip. The SIG Sniper rifle, with the right ammunition, had lock down groupings of 40mm at a range of 2000 metres. The .303 with full grain ammunition would go through two car doors, three 44 gallon drums or a heavy duty plough blade. All were freely and widely available in Australia.

They seem excessive, but if a boar or water buffalo are charging at you they feel like a toothpick!

Despite what these weapons can do, if most people tried to use them they'd be lucky to hit the hotel let alone a tiny little shooter firing at them from 350m away! The girl in that video knows what she is doing, she isn't a rookie, and she'll struggle to keep a grouping on that car only 30m or 40m away!

The point that is important here, these modifications you can buy in the USA have no purpose in hunting. They are clumsy, useless, uncontrolled, rapid fire pyrotechnics that reduce precision rifles into long range shotguns. The kits are not designed for hunting, and should not be available to the public under any circumstance!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #84
@LP

All very interesting stuff LP. I was reading a report that was saying that Paddock, as the single shooter, over the elapsed time the police allege and using only 30 round magazines would have have been killing or wounding 2.1 people every second. I find that pretty amazing shooting with what was a modified semi automatic weapon. I'll await the official report though - premature to jump to any conclusions.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #85
@LP

All very interesting stuff LP. I was reading a report that was saying that Paddock, as the single shooter, over the elapsed time the police allege and using only 30 round magazines would have have been killing or wounding 2.1 people every second. I find that pretty amazing shooting with what was a modified semi automatic weapon. I'll await the official report though - premature to jump to any conclusions.

2.1 people per second on average.

But he started by firing into a tightly packed concert crowd, he would have been killing or injuring far more than that per second initially. It would be like firing at blades of grass on the lawn.

Depending what rounds he used, some shots might have easily killed more than one person. If he concentrated fire on the crowd pinch points he'd be able to sustain a high rate.

After that, once the crowd dispersed, the automatic weapon would be mostly useless at the range described. See the video of the girl 30m away from the car, a good deal of her shots hit the ground or pass over the vehicle. He probably switched to one of the DDM4s or a similar sniper type rifles he had in the room, but most of the damage was probably already done. A 30 round clip, 5s to empty and another 5s or less to change in a fresh one! Rehearsed, I think 90 Rnds per minute is easily attainable, the thing that apparently stitched him up was the smoke building up in the hotel room.

How can psychology, welfare and law enforcement deal with a situation that can do so much damage in such a short period of time. Weapons control is the only answer!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #86
The point that is important here, these modifications you can buy in the USA have no purpose in hunting. They are clumsy, useless, uncontrolled, rapid fire pyrotechnics that reduce precision rifles into long range shotguns. The kits are not designed for hunting, and should not be available to the public under any circumstance!
Some former military guy on CNN said that the US Army has used limiters on their automatic weapons so they shoot in bursts of 3.  Says that the military is concerned that the adrenaline rush can otherwise lead to adverse results.  He wondered why the US Army doesn't need or desire continuous fire but "sporting" shooters do.

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #87
Thryleon, are you talking about the cabbie footage supposedly showing muzzle flash from floors beneath the identified shooter (referred to in the link Flyboy provided)?  As one comment noted on that webpage, the same flashing light was apparent after the shooting finished and appears to be a flashing light inside the hotel. 
Maybe, I don't really know.  I saw a clip, and heard some audio.  Was it a cabbie?  Was it someone else?  I don't know.  Was it the same hotel?  Absolutely.  Like I stated, was it even a second shooter?  I don't know nut the audio I heard had two guns firing at once and like I said, perhaps it was simply an echo of the first gun.  All I am doing is raising a possibility that the story might be different to what we are being told.

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Why do we need to question "the official version"?  Why not let the investigation wend its way slowly and methodically given this is the best way for law enforcement to proceed?  Why do we have to fill in gaps in our knowledge with conspiracy theories? 
Because like I stated in a previous post, I reject information I am given because I have seen far too many instances of being told lies and mistruths.  Weapons of mass destruction in Iraq would be my number one counter argument here.  Why am I like this?  Personally, I like to form my own opinion of circumstances rather than believe the rhetoric.  This is what I call keeping an open mind.  Another one that I can bring up here, is that the pentagon was not hit with a plane, but rather some sort of missile.  what that was, I cant say, but the facts point to the official story being wrong.  Then they go marching into the middle east causing trouble, and I always keep in mind that perhaps the USA is the aggressor in these circumstances, rather than simply "defending themselves".  Still, such is life.  I won't find out for sure either way, but if ideas were never challenged, we would all believe the world was flat wouldn't we??
Quote
Why would there be a 2nd shooter?  Why would that shooter have been much more concerned with staying under the radar than the other shooter?  Multiple shooters might be worthwhile if terrorists fear that a lone shooter may be apprehended or neutralised quickly.  Or if the aim is to work towards a big death toll.  But if the aim is terror, why would 100 kills be better than 58?  And surely the mythical back-up shooter would have been happy to simply watch without running any risks given that the 1st shooter was shooting for minutes?  Why didn't the 2nd shooter pick up the batton once the 1st shooter stopped firing?  There's no compelling logic that requires us to fill in the gaps in knowledge by creating a 2nd shooter.

I don't know, but to find the answer to these questions, you would have to understand the motive behind why this whole thing happened in the first place which might we wide and varied and largely not likely to yield results we will ever know for sure.  i.e. It might have been an assasination of one specific person and to dilute it by murdering another 100 odd people and pinning it on a fall guy might be how they get away with it. Or I might have an overactive imagination.

Perhaps the second shooter simply killed this guy, pinned the whole ordeal on him, and then has vanished into the night.  Free to murder again in his own time whilst this guy takes the blame and that means there is another unhinged person out there we should really be worried about.


Or maybe we should just take your word for it and wonder why on earth this person acted out like that, paint him as unhinged and pretend that there are not more threats to our safety out there?

Take your pick what you want to believe.  Ill keep my mind open for now and we will see where this ends up.

In the meantime ask yourself the following question.  By being so outright dismissive of an alternative truth, are you being like Galileo who is searching for the truth?  Or those who called him heretic and tried to squash his theory that the world was indeed round like he stated??
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #88
@LP

So around 180 rounds per minute? Apparently the police allege about 4 mins firing time so about 720 rounds all up and 573 people hit. Seems like pretty good shooting to me.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Las Vegas Mass Shooting

Reply #89
Quote
Las Vegas SWAT was able to gain entry into Paddock's suite about an hour after the first shots were fired.

I read it was closer to 75 minutes.....

http://abc7chicago.com/security-guard-first-found-las-vegas-shooters-room/2490027/

I note the LVPD HQ is 15 minutes - at regular speed - from the Mandalay...

And is Mav prepared to argue a large casino - liked the Mandalay Bay Resort - wouldn't have a heavy duty armed security team, and mega SUPER HIGH TECH camera EVERYWHERE!?

Finals, then 4 in a row!