Watching the replay yesterday I couldn't believe the lows that Chris Yarran has stooped to under the new regime. I wanted to go back and look at his season in 2011, he was a human highlight reel. I don't think you could show two minutes of highlights from this season. Take a look at these to see just how promising this kid was a couple of years back. Now he's just a shadow of himself, playing with little or no confidence and looking almost disinterested, as opposed to how Ratts had him flying in 2011. And people say Ratten couldn't develop the players. Where has this Chris Yarran gone we could really use him ATM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnY55Nm_kU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnY55Nm_kU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUEZBvGbEHM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUEZBvGbEHM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_L0zqnYBJI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_L0zqnYBJI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sxTcIfNla0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sxTcIfNla0)
Ratts moved him into defence because he was too lazy as a forward / last year he started getting lazy as a defender / MM is now discovering what Ratts discovered in 2010.
Yarran is not a small forward, doesn't possess the agility. What he is, is a cheetah. He needs some room to extend to be effective. I've said for sometime that he needs to be on a wing, that's when you'll see the best of Chris Yarran.
Yarran is not a small forward, doesn't possess the agility. What he is, is a cheetah. He needs some room to extend to be effective. I've said for sometime that he needs to be on a wing, that's when you'll see the best of Chris Yarran.
Spot on!
Yarran is not a small forward, doesn't possess the agility. What he is, is a cheetah. He needs some room to extend to be effective. I've said for sometime that he needs to be on a wing, that's when you'll see the best of Chris Yarran.
Spot on!
Trouble is fellas that space doesn't exist in finals type footy or if it does its only because you've run your guts out to make it.
I'm not sure Yazz works hard enough to make that room , if he did he'd make Leroy Jetta look like a b grader.
Looks the same to me.
Ratts moved him into defence because he was too lazy as a forward / last year he started getting lazy as a defender / MM is now discovering what Ratts discovered in 2010.
(http://f.ptcdn.info/044/003/000/1363014620-audiencest-o.jpg)
Watching the replay yesterday I couldn't believe the lows that Chris Yarran has stooped to under the new regime. I wanted to go back and look at his season in 2011, he was a human highlight reel. I don't think you could show two minutes of highlights from this season. Take a look at these to see just how promising this kid was a couple of years back. Now he's just a shadow of himself, playing with little or no confidence and looking almost disinterested, as opposed to how Ratts had him flying in 2011. And people say Ratten couldn't develop the players. Where has this Chris Yarran gone we could really use him ATM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnY55Nm_kU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdnY55Nm_kU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUEZBvGbEHM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUEZBvGbEHM)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_L0zqnYBJI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_L0zqnYBJI)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sxTcIfNla0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sxTcIfNla0)
you know, it was reported at the start of the year he was still struggling with Turf toe
and I am sure finding the right pillow (from his diary last year) has kept him up at night too ;D
you know, it was reported at the start of the year he was still struggling with Turf toe
Only Ratten is allowed injuries as an excuse.
I don't think its a case of him going backwards, its just that he picks & chooses when he wants to turn it on. This year, for reasons we can only speculate on, he has chosen not to get involved.
His big problem is between his ears and it is going to take a very gifted or patient coach or mentor to get that part of his character make-up changed permanently.
I was hoping that his getting down and dirty with Geary last Fri might fire him up a bit - get the adrenalin flowing! I'm pretty sure though he's struggling with how/what role MM wants him to play - mind you I've always thought that he's a bit of a cruiser.
I was hoping that his getting down and dirty with Geary last Fri might fire him up a bit - get the adrenalin flowing! I'm pretty sure though he's struggling with how/what role MM wants him to play - mind you I've always thought that he's a bit of a cruiser.
Cookie..I thought he did show some intent with mixiing it with Geary but seemed to forget about the football side of things...reckon CY can look after himself with blokes his own size.
I feel CY needs a Michael Oloughlin type mentor who can motivate him to be more intense more often.....MickyO was a lazy cherry picker highlight reel type to begin with but gradually became a more complete player and its not a question CY not being able to contest and impact on the game he just picks and chooses when to do it and that is frustrating. As a coach you feel like yelling at him and shaking some sense into him but he isnt that type to respond to that type of treatment and a mentor like MickyO who he might respect and feel and obligation to perform for might do the trick....easier said than done though to entice MickyO or similar to the club.
I just watched the replay (first game I have seen coverage of for six weeks) so my opinion is based on limited information.
From what I saw in the Saints game, Yarran was appropriately aggressive and refused to be bullied by his opponents. He also went out of his way to intervene when team mates were being harassed. If you know the story of Yarran dealing with a knife wielding mugger in South Africa, you will know that he is more than capable of looking after himself. Having a player with confidence in his ability to deal with an opponent is a huge positive for a team that is thought to be soft.
Yarran's use of the ball was generally very good but he let himself and the team down with poor goalkicking. However, poor finishing has been a feature of his game from day one.
Clearly, his run and carry has diminished significantly but he has less opportunity to do that as a half forward. Mind you, his effort to burn off his opponent and kick to Henderson in the square was pretty damn good.
Yarran is playing a different role this season and I suspect that he has taken some time to come to terms with it. Of course he's not going to have the same impact as he did when running out of defence but that's not what the coach wants.
I don't agree that he's gone backwards, but I would like to see more consistency from him. I would also like to see the coach giving him more opportunities to use his pace and flare.
I think his speed and skill is his number one asset. Playing him down back was a masterstroke as it took away the option of deciding when and when not to go, he had no choice. It also made him more accountable. Simple yet effective. Move him down back again, or put him on a wing as suggested.
Yarran hasn't got a defensive bone in his body. Ratten played extra numbers in defense that used to cover Yarran, Mick played him down back in the preseason and he got smashed.
Yarran played on and beat many small forwards. He was also tagged by defensive forwards to quell his influence, so dangerous he was on the rebound. Obviously you were always on Yarran's case in the last few years telling us how bad he was in defence? Or have you just seen the light now? :D
I've always said he's our most talented player but he's lazy and soft. That view hasn't changed.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/identifying-carltons-no1-problem-20130712-2pvq3.html (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/identifying-carltons-no1-problem-20130712-2pvq3.html)
he's not alone!
Chris Yarran was heading down the path of being a pretty good AFL footballer under Ratten. Problem is he has got the ability to be AA, even better. I have always said the only thing standing in Chris Yarran's way is Chris Yarran.
I actually love that MM has given will a wake up call or two. He needs chase more and work harder otherwise in 10 years time we will talk about what a great player Yarran could have been.
If he takes a step backwards to take two forward then so be it.
If he takes a step backwards to take two forward then so be it.
That's fine but let's just hope the forward steps aren't at another club.
He was okay this year before he did his hammy. His games against the pies (rd 2) and eagles (rd 4) were very good.
I remember a doco on TV a year or two ago about 3-4 young footballers and their lives. CY was one of them and he showed the guts and will to be eventually drafted into the AFL. All others fell by the wayside.
That showed me that he has got inner strength and yes EB1, maybe a mentor such as Mickey O would be a good idea for him to help him reach inside to that inner reserve?
I remember a doco on TV a year or two ago about 3-4 young footballers and their lives. CY was one of them and he showed the guts and will to be eventually drafted into the AFL. All others fell by the wayside.
That showed me that he has got inner strength and yes EB1, maybe a mentor such as Mickey O would be a good idea for him to help him reach inside to that inner reserve?
i thought one Edward Betts was a mentor?
Maybe Chris needs to become a Dad ala Eddie, Carrots and Jeff G.?
I remember a doco on TV a year or two ago about 3-4 young footballers and their lives. CY was one of them and he showed the guts and will to be eventually drafted into the AFL. All others fell by the wayside.
That showed me that he has got inner strength and yes EB1, maybe a mentor such as Mickey O would be a good idea for him to help him reach inside to that inner reserve?
The show was called 'Three Boys Dreaming' and got replayed just last week on ABC1.
I remember a doco on TV a year or two ago about 3-4 young footballers and their lives. CY was one of them and he showed the guts and will to be eventually drafted into the AFL. All others fell by the wayside.
That showed me that he has got inner strength and yes EB1, maybe a mentor such as Mickey O would be a good idea for him to help him reach inside to that inner reserve?
The show was called 'Three Boys Dreaming' and got replayed just last week on ABC1.
That's it! Thanks Sheik - it is a great program.
Spot On Carrots.
Notice since the Dropping of Yarran:
1. The Form of Garlett (who was close to AA) has fallen away dramatically. as as his intensity and Desire.
2. Betts hasn't got near it and was close to re-signing at the bye but has now held off talks with the club.
3. Yarran is unsure whether to take the game on or stop and prop and kick long to the Boundary.
Spot On Carrots.
Notice since the Dropping of Yarran:
1. The Form of Garlett (who was close to AA) has fallen away dramatically. as as his intensity and Desire.
2. Betts hasn't got near it and was close to re-signing at the bye but has now held off talks with the club.
3. Yarran is unsure whether to take the game on or stop and prop and kick long to the Boundary.
Are you saying the Aboriginals are on strike?
Spot On Carrots.
Notice since the Dropping of Yarran:
1. The Form of Garlett (who was close to AA) has fallen away dramatically. as as his intensity and Desire.
2. Betts hasn't got near it and was close to re-signing at the bye but has now held off talks with the club.
3. Yarran is unsure whether to take the game on or stop and prop and kick long to the Boundary.
Garletts form fell away all last year and he played pretty well from limited touches on Saturday.
Bett's hasn't had a kick since (and including) the first Saints game. So much so that his game as sub on the weekend was his best in a long long time.
Yarrans endeavour has been reasonable since his return to the side, apart from the Pies game and he wasn't on his own.
I don't think there's anything sinister going on with the three amigos. Like other players they are struggling a bit with the transition to the MM way of playing. In fact I thought Jeffy started to show a bit v. the Saints.
Yarran went backwards last year, to say he has gone backwards this year is a complete lie.
Yarran went backwards last year, to say he has gone backwards this year is a complete lie.
I think both statements are wrong, he has not progressed would be more accurate!
Players always suffer in their 2nd or 3rd year as they collect more attention from opponents. It is the "Honeymoon is Over" scenario.
After last season Betts, Garlett and Yarran are naturally attracting more attention, but not because they have slipped. Primarily it is because Walker and Robbo have left the forward zone. Last season and the season before one of those medium sized fast taggers had to stand Walker. Now the oppositions best medium sized defensive trio get to line up 1,2 & 3 on the Amigos, and the Amigos have to learn to deal with it!
Add to that I think Yarran's best season was off the HB line when Walker was primarily forward. This season he must share much more of that HBF ball with Walker so it means less highlights for Yarran.
Spot On Carrots.
Notice since the Dropping of Yarran:
1. The Form of Garlett (who was close to AA) has fallen away dramatically. as as his intensity and Desire.
2. Betts hasn't got near it and was close to re-signing at the bye but has now held off talks with the club.
3. Yarran is unsure whether to take the game on or stop and prop and kick long to the Boundary.
Are you saying the Aboriginals are on strike?
They are very close knit friends and it is just an observation that their form has all dipped since Yarran's sooky la la and dropping. I think its pretty obvious - no?
@1979 - Garlett's form last year was Horrible and was lucky to play as many as he did. Mick (or whoever) had him playing at AA levels at the start of this year, but went goalless for 3 games when the heat was on and Yarran got dropped. He has started to hopefully turn it around again (notice that Betts and Yarran are both back playing now).
I think there is a bigger plan and picture here for Yarran and MM is putting it in place. Maybe he is perceived to be going backwards but I see it as he is learning a few lessons to continue going forward and reach his full potential. They are hard and necessary lessons. He'll be a better AFL footballer for this year under MM IMHO and will learn a lot more under his tuition.
Yarran went backwards last year, to say he has gone backwards this year is a complete lie.
No it's not it's an opinion. Are you saying I'm deliberately lying about my opinion?
Yarran played very well last year from limited games and quite a few where he wasn't even fit. No chance he would've been dropped last year. This year he's been made sub and dropped. He's had one great game vs WCE no doubt.
When I talk about him going backwards it's not just in reference to his form. He seemed extremely hesitant vs the Saints, had little or no confidence and fumbled quite a few balls. This is not like Chris Yarran at all. He's usually got clean hands and the utmost confidence in his ability. I did not see the Pies or Swans games so I can't comment on those games.
@Shadesy
I noticed this a few weeks back that all three had under performed since. Garlett had been firing early in the season Betts is just an out and out star. Yarran could be anything. I'd like to know what their forward pressure has been like in the past 3 weeks (pretty sure there's a stat).
I think there is a bigger plan and picture here for Yarran and MM is putting it in place. Maybe he is perceived to be going backwards but I see it as he is learning a few lessons to continue going forward and reach his full potential. They are hard and necessary lessons. He'll be a better AFL footballer for this year under MM IMHO and will learn a lot more under his tuition.
Pratty I've got this sinking feeling that MM will trade him. Would be a huge black mark against Mick's name if this happens from where I sit.
I think there is a bigger plan and picture here for Yarran and MM is putting it in place. Maybe he is perceived to be going backwards but I see it as he is learning a few lessons to continue going forward and reach his full potential. They are hard and necessary lessons. He'll be a better AFL footballer for this year under MM IMHO and will learn a lot more under his tuition.
Pratty I've got this sinking feeling that MM will trade him. Would be a huge black mark against Mick's name if this happens from where I sit.
Swap for Daisy?
Yarran should be more of an untouchable than Gibbs imo.
i'd love to run into the Yazz one day and get his thoughts on MM and CFC circa 2013.....
I think there is a bigger plan and picture here for Yarran and MM is putting it in place. Maybe he is perceived to be going backwards but I see it as he is learning a few lessons to continue going forward and reach his full potential. They are hard and necessary lessons. He'll be a better AFL footballer for this year under MM IMHO and will learn a lot more under his tuition.
Pratty I've got this sinking feeling that MM will trade him. Would be a huge black mark against Mick's name if this happens from where I sit.
I don't.
I reckon he will get him motivated.
If Yarran gets fit, I mean really really fit and starts running like a Swans player he will murder teams. Like I said before, he's a 10 kg heavier player than Lewis Jetta but he can run just as fast, can mark and can break a tackle.
He should be the scariest proposition for opposition clubs.
Couldn't agree more with the second part. He has the ability to be the best player in the comp. Also makes you wonder why the fork you'd make him sub.
No it's not it's an opinion. Are you saying I'm deliberately lying about my opinion?
Yes.
No it's not it's an opinion. Are you saying I'm deliberately lying about my opinion?
Yes.
Hmm, ok. That's a little strange but anyway good for you. You're entitled to your opinion after all.
Back on topic, no better chance than Friday night on a dry deck for the Yazz to turn it on. Would love to see him line up on a wing or off half back.
Started the season on fire.
Hit a bit of bad form and then has kind of lost the plot a bit.
Comes cross as the kind of player who backs his own ability and talk himself up, but could at times get ahead of himself too.
Started the season on fire.
Hit a bit of bad form and then has kind of lost the plot a bit.
Comes cross as the kind of player who backs his own ability and talk himself up, but could at times get ahead of himself too.
Very true & accurate assessment, at times you really do get the impression he thinks he is a better player than what his overall output would suggest.
He has till the end of the season to appease Malthouse & convince him that he not only wants to remain at the club but he will also follow Malthouse's instructions precisely. The reason I say that is Malthouse is not afraid to trade out regular players plus he has a system he works to that achieves success and anyone who doesn't buy into that plan ends up being booted.
.......
Comes cross as the kind of player who backs his own ability and talk himself up, but could at times get ahead of himself too.
If you talk the talk, you had better walk the walk!
Just on Jeffie and I love him as a player, he is a little bit of a flat tracker. His drop off in form just happened to be against Essendon, Hawthorn and Sydney.
Average Goals vs
3 - Gold Coast
2.8 - Adelaide
2.5 - GWS Giants
2.5 - Port Adelaide
2 - Essendon
2 - West Coast
2 - Melbourne
1.8 - Brisbane Lions
1.8 - Richmond
1.8 - Fremantle
1.8 - St Kilda
1.8 - Totals
1.5 - Sydney
1.5 - Collingwood
1.3 - Western Bulldogs
1.2 - Geelong
0.7 - North Melbourne
0.5 - Hawthorn
Average Disposals vs
16.5 - GWS Giants
14 - Western Bulldogs
13.8 - Geelong
13.3 - Adelaide
12.9 - Essendon
12.9 - West Coast
12.2 - Melbourne
12.2 - Sydney
12.1 - Brisbane Lions
12.1 - Richmond
12 - Totals
11.6 - Collingwood
11.2 - Fremantle
11 - Gold Coast
10.7 - North Melbourne
10.4 - St Kilda
10.3 - Hawthorn
9.8 - Port Adelaide
He has struggled in big games and dominated in our big wins.
I think Yarran has struggled this year, but he has certainly had his highlights along the way.
I also think that despite some decent form last year, he was far from our best each and every week then.
So...its been a bit of a steady decline over the past 2 years that have glimpses of his best along the way.
Jeffy has struggled, Eddie too.
Might be the game plan, might be the (lack of) forward targets. Might be teething problems.
I also think that all this talk about Yarran dominating small forwards last year is a bit rich. There were plenty of people calling him lazy and soft last year too.
Personally i think Yarran has lost a bit of his attacking flair, but has gained a bit more physicality. I'd like to see him moved permanently to a wing. I think it suits his skill set.
Yarran hasn't gone backwards, he's just adapting to MM. He's going ok IMO, he had some mongrel in him against the saints which I love, no issues with him...
Eddie had a broken jaw not long ago so will take a bit to come back from, confidence wise.
Jeffy is going along fine, he's been smashed from pillar to post and still fronts up time and time again.
Silly topic really, surely we have more than that to discuss.... ::)
Yarran hasn't gone backwards, he's just adapting to MM. He's going ok IMO, he had some mongrel in him against the saints which I love, no issues with him...
Eddie had a broken jaw not long ago so will take a bit to come back from, confidence wise.
Jeffy is going along fine, he's been smashed from pillar to post and still fronts up time and time again.
Silly topic really, surely we have more than that to discuss.... ::)
i must disagree. how is a player judged if not on output?
Regardless of whether he has gone backwards or not, I don't think he is anywhere near where he needs to be playing at this stage of his career.
I wouldn't think I'm being too harsh expecting him to be regularly playing in the midfield by now and regularly too. He has had plenty of time to work on his motor and should be a star performer as an onballer at this stage. Certainly our midfield is crying out for some more class and he would've been a welcome addition to the group
Interesting piece on the effectiveness of the three amigos this year. In particular this piece about Yarran pricked my ears, and basically says what many here have been saying for some time.
Yarran is more a victim, at this stage, of Malthouse's coaching strategy where defence comes first and foremost and unless you can play effective man-on-man football you won't survive in that area.
In 2011 Yarran was allowed the freedom to express himself off half-back but he won't return to that role unless he improves the defensive side of his game.
If he does, Yarran will be used in an attacking role off half-back, just as Heath Shaw became at Collingwood under Malthouse. But will he remain a Blue in 2014?
Maybe there is something in Thryleon's rumour.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-small-forwards-chris-yarran-jeff-garlett-and-eddie-betts-unlikely-to-be-together-in-2014/story-fni5f5nx-1226681670018
Yarran hasn't gone backwards, he's just adapting to MM. He's going ok IMO, he had some mongrel in him against the saints which I love, no issues with him...
Eddie had a broken jaw not long ago so will take a bit to come back from, confidence wise.
Jeffy is going along fine, he's been smashed from pillar to post and still fronts up time and time again.
Silly topic really, surely we have more than that to discuss.... ::)
Yeah sht, who would've thought discussing the form of a promising talented player in our squad would come up here? What were we possibly thinking?
I think that the players that are being selected on a regular basis will be unlikely to go unless a very very good trade deal is available that truly advantages us.
IMO we would want an established and well performed KPF or KPD in return for Yazz if we decided to reduce the 3 amigos to 2.
Yarran can play anywhere other than kpp.
The contract status of Betts makes this an interesting discussion.
Why the delay so far? Could that uncertainty be impacting on the form of all three?
I'd hate to lose Betts, I think he's the most 'all-round' of all of them.
The thought of Betts playing for any other club makes me feel nauseous.
Yarran can play anywhere other than kpp.
Chris Yarran tagging would be a disaster, he is not physical enough and his first thought is to rove rather than spoil. He cost us critical goals several times last season when he was caught spectating on the HB line when he should have been 3rd man up or making up the numbers on the inside.
Yarran hasn't gone backwards, he's just adapting to MM. He's going ok IMO, he had some mongrel in him against the saints which I love, no issues with him...
Eddie had a broken jaw not long ago so will take a bit to come back from, confidence wise.
Jeffy is going along fine, he's been smashed from pillar to post and still fronts up time and time again.
Silly topic really, surely we have more than that to discuss.... ::)
I rest my case! ;)
Yazz had a good night tonight but I reckon PI2C will try to tell us that yazz would have kicked 5 times more goals under ratten and taken 2x the contested marks.
Thought he was awful early but really worked his way into it. Clearly an improvement on last week.
Thought he was awful early but really worked his way into it. Clearly an improvement on last week.
I though it was his tackling that got him into the game. Couldn't get the ball early so attacked the player with the ball and it worked. Same goes for most sports there is always one thing you can do if you're not getting in the game and by doing that one thing, it generally get you involved and the game then comes to you.
Yazz is a touch player. Was ordinary early but really got into the game after that. Did not get many touches but scored a couple of goals, one aftera mark going back into pack and one from a stopage. Thought his tackling and pressure in forward line was great, probably the best I have seen him in this facet.
Wow brilliant move by Malthouse to drop him, certainly got the best out of him didn't it? He's firing on all cylinders now. He's not in our best 22 and our best 22 is a pretty weak outfit. What a fall from grace from Yarran, TBH I can't even watch him any more it's just too painful.
Wow brilliant move by Malthouse to drop him, certainly got the best out of him didn't it? He's firing on all cylinders now. He's not in our best 22 and our best 22 is a pretty weak outfit. What a fall from grace from Yarran, TBH I can't even watch him any more it's just too painful.
Poor Chris. He got dropped for not performing and how refuses to perform at all. Defs the fault of the coach. :))
fwiw I dont reckon Rich or Zeibell need any motivation from their coach. They just get the job done. Week in. Week out. Funny thing is we knew this when they were 18. ;)
Wow brilliant move by Malthouse to drop him, certainly got the best out of him didn't it? He's firing on all cylinders now. He's not in our best 22 and our best 22 is a pretty weak outfit. What a fall from grace from Yarran, TBH I can't even watch him any more it's just too painful.
Poor Chris. He got dropped for not performing and how refuses to perform at all. Defs the fault of the coach. :))
Of course it's not up to the coach to get the best out of the players is it Tex? Have you visited the old Sack Ratts thread lately? Are you a hypocrite? Much? Oh yeah right I forgot it was a fair effort from us last night. ::)
Wow brilliant move by Malthouse to drop him, certainly got the best out of him didn't it? He's firing on all cylinders now. He's not in our best 22 and our best 22 is a pretty weak outfit. What a fall from grace from Yarran, TBH I can't even watch him any more it's just too painful.
Poor Chris. He got dropped for not performing and how refuses to perform at all. Defs the fault of the coach. :))
Of course it's not up to the coach to get the best out of the players is it Tex? Have you visited the old Sack Ratts thread lately? Are you a hypocrite? Much? Oh yeah right I forgot it was a fair effort from us last night. ::)
A big flaw of Rattens was his inability to find a plan B / punish the players. I believe this has been resolved under MM.
Anyway, Carrots, what you are calling for is Chris Yarran to never be dropped. I dont need to explain myself as to how stupid such a proposition is.
The sooner Yarran realises its not all about him the better.
Nah it doesn't matter, he's gone. MM has taken our most promising player and made him not want to play for the club any more. And it's had the domino effect on his mates. Great coach that Malthouse, steps into the club and manages to turn our most potent weapons against him in half a season. No doubt the others are loving his sprays. This is all too familiar. Young up and coming coach destroyed by injuries gets the sack and is replaced by a successful dictator that steps into the club like he's been there 10 years and puts everyone offside. List is cleaned out and team goes backwards and then is forced to rebuild for the next 6 years. It's all happening in front of our eyes. Malthouse himself has already told us he needs to rebuild. At least Pagan waited until the end of the season.
The world is indeed caving in, Chris. :))
His effort was particularly poor last night. He just didn't want to go. I know he's always had that problem but it was really evident last night as players just ran past him.
I wasn't so worried about the Duffield bump v tackle I thought that was just an error or judgement but his overall effort seemed poor.
He just doesn't have enough stamina for repeat efforts or to run out games and the rest of the team doesn't work hard enough to allow him to put in Lewis Jetta performances.
Backwards. Bigtime.
Trade him.
Wow brilliant move by Malthouse to drop him, certainly got the best out of him didn't it? He's firing on all cylinders now. He's not in our best 22 and our best 22 is a pretty weak outfit. What a fall from grace from Yarran, TBH I can't even watch him any more it's just too painful.
Cmon Carrots, you are better than that.
The players don't get given games, they need to earn them.
If they don't buy in to the gameplan and are disinterested then that is on them.
Many on here were blaming Malthouse for how Kade Simpson was travelling early on. Now Simmo has listened, learned and performed his new role exactly as Mick wants him too and have a look at the benefits, one of our best last night.
Freo were so impressive because everyone buys in to the team game plan. If you have a player, or 10, that don't it doesn't work. Mick is working out who is willing to buy in and work for the team. Yarran has the ability, he needs to prove he has the mental capacity and dedication to become a real player.
I love Yarran, but this is on him, not Mick.
Yarran is certainly struggling with the challenges and rigours of being an AFL footballer - I guess with the transition of being naturally a show-pony but needing to become a warhorse. :(
Wow brilliant move by Malthouse to drop him, certainly got the best out of him didn't it? He's firing on all cylinders now. He's not in our best 22 and our best 22 is a pretty weak outfit. What a fall from grace from Yarran, TBH I can't even watch him any more it's just too painful.
Cmon Carrots, you are better than that.
The players don't get given games, they need to earn them.
If they don't buy in to the gameplan and are disinterested then that is on them.
Many on here were blaming Malthouse for how Kade Simpson was travelling early on. Now Simmo has listened, learned and performed his new role exactly as Mick wants him too and have a look at the benefits, one of our best last night.
Freo were so impressive because everyone buys in to the team game plan. If you have a player, or 10, that don't it doesn't work. Mick is working out who is willing to buy in and work for the team. Yarran has the ability, he needs to prove he has the mental capacity and dedication to become a real player.
I love Yarran, but this is on him, not Mick.
Whatever spin you put on it, he has lost the plot under Malthouse and was developing fine under Ratten. The stubborn old fool needs to cut his losses, admit he got it wrong and play him down back again. That's the only hope otherwise there's no way back from here unfortunately.
Trade him.
Only problem being he's lost all value. A c0ck up of immense proportions is happening right in front of our eyes.
@PI2C
Carrots, wherever Yarran plays he's unaccountable - always has been. Just does not have any intensity, illustrated by when he makes a mistake or overruns the ball or misses on his first attempt to tackle - he makes no attempt to recover or make a second attempt, too often just ending up out of the play.
Sorry but I've lost all patience with him and blaming MM for Yarran's laziness is just not going to cut it for me.
See cookie, I look to his last three years in defence and I see a player that beat his man more often than not and gave us tremendous drive coming out of defence. I see a new coach come in, move him out of his position, make him sub ( poor team selection ) and then drop him to try and make a statement and then I see what I saw last night which is as bad as I've seen him approach any game. Every player is different and it's up to the coach to get the best out of them, especially when you have a player as talented as Yarran. I blame the coach TBH and I'm pretty sick of the blind faith being shown in Malthouse. You guys will learn the hard way.
Understand your frustration PI2C. I don't have blind faith in Malthouse BUT he's our coach now and we have to go forward with him. OK he'll do things at times that will mystify us or make us feel frustrated but he's there for another 2 years at least after this one - we may as well try to be optimistic, at least at this early stage. If we're still having this conversation in 12 months time then I would be right there with you in voicing my concerns.
Still does not change my low opinion of some of our players - and unfortunately yarran is one of them - not his talents but his attitude.
Fair enough cookie. I guess we wait. I'm really sick of waiting though! :P
Yarran is certainly struggling with the challenges and rigours of being an AFL footballer - I guess with the transition of being naturally a show-pony but needing to become a warhorse. :(
I reckon that's a pretty good analogy for Yarran right there, good work C2 !!
Just watching Adelaide vs Port.
Take a look at Jarred Petrenko. He lead the way in terms of lifting the tackling pressure.
On the other side you have chad winguard. Both have been huge. Chris Yarran could have twice the talent but doesnt even have half the ticker and both have had a major say in their sides fortunes in this game of footy, and Yarran has NEVER shown this level of commitment to the cause.
Just watching Adelaide vs Port.
Take a look at Jarred Petrenko. He lead the way in terms of lifting the tackling pressure.
On the other side you have chad winguard. Both have been huge. Chris Yarran could have twice the talent but doesnt even have half the ticker and both have had a major say in their sides fortunes in this game of footy, and Yarran has NEVER shown this level of commitment to the cause.
Trouble is you will never be able to teach Yarran to play like Petrenko or Winguard do, you might be able to get Yarran to lift his intensity a bit, but it's highly unlikely that he will ever lead the charge like the other 2.
When I look at Yarran I see a classy, super skilled but extremely lazy footballer .I would prefer a guy like Ballantyne or Walters who give 110% every week.He may have played his last game for Carlton and if he shows that lack of commitment I wont be crying if he goes .Its a shame really >:D
Hasn't gone backwards, has just been called out for the footballer that he currently is.
I have always said from day dot that Yarran has all the tools to be elite and it's up to one person if he makes it or not.
I don't think he wants it badly enough. Pretty happy just going along at the moment. Either that or he thinks he a has already arrived.
Yarran pretty much sums up were we are as a club and I am glad that MM has at least had a crack at leading this horse to water.
Nah, he's gone backwards. Who's at fault is debatable but he is just plain awful ATM, a shadow of the player we've been used to seeing over the previous 2 years. Think about it. no one would've entertained trading Yarran over the past two years but now everyone is happy to fk him off. He's gone backwards no doubt about it.
Who's at fault is debatable.
lol.
Seen the light have we?
Who's at fault is debatable.
lol.
Seen the light have we?
What that I get a negative karma every time you log in? Yeah.
With regards to Yarran I blame MM without a doubt, I just CBF arguing the point over and over again to a bunch of people that see MM as some sort of messiah that can do no wrong. :P
I think Yarran's attitude has gone backwards...no one doubts his talents but he sulked up after getting dropped and continues to pick and choose which contests he should involve himself in.
MM has made mistakes but Yarran has to learn accountability like the rest of the playing group and understand that being a highlight reel player wont win him any pats on the back from a coach like Malthouse who from memory suggested he didnt think much of Dane Swan's game one day after Swan got the ball forty times.
Like Betts and Garlett he needs to toughen and up and embrace the new coaching style and learn from it.....I think he is capable if he can be bothered and that seems to be the thing about CY...if he can be bothered.
Who's at fault is debatable.
lol.
Seen the light have we?
What that I get a negative karma every time you log in? Yeah.
With regards to Yarran I blame MM without a doubt, I just CBF arguing the point over and over again to a bunch of people that see MM as some sort of messiah that can do no wrong. :P
Try spending less time being paranoid Chris. :)
Well yeah I agree it's his attitude that's gone backwards, he hasn't lost ability, just his focus.
I think he is capable if he can be bothered and that seems to be the thing about CY...if he can be bothered.
The buck stops with the coach IMO, it's up to him to make Yarran bothered. He sure as hell looked bothered under the prvious regime. What I saw vs the Saints and even worse on Saturday night was worse than any other performance he's put in in the past. He's lost all enthusiasm as have his Amigos. You have to ask the question, how many players can underperform before you stop blaming the player and start looking at the coach.
Well yeah I agree it's his attitude that's gone backwards, he hasn't lost ability, just his focus.
I think he is capable if he can be bothered and that seems to be the thing about CY...if he can be bothered.
The buck stops with the coach IMO, it's up to him to make Yarran bothered. He sure as hell looked bothered under the prvious regime. What I saw vs the Saints and even worse on Saturday night was worse than any other performance he's put in in the past. He's lost all enthusiasm as have his Amigos. You have to ask the question, how many players can underperform before you stop blaming the player and start looking at the coach.
i'm onboard PI2C. Every beef I had with Ratts' coaching, I'm having that and more with what MM puts out most match days - poor selections, poor usage of players and too many players not prepared to do the hard/team thing......
That said, it wasn't the Three Amigos that lost us the Freo game it was simply and (largely) solely the pisse weak midfield (led missing by our MIA captain) and any lack of real support for Kreuzer....
I think the individual player problems stem from cultural problems at the club going back a long, long time. It was highlighted way back when the now infamous "We don't rebuild!" statement was issued. As yet I haven't seen any major improvement that I can identify.
We may have been penalised for "Not Rebuilding", but we haven't learned the lessons yet! Ironically I think the cheating Bumbers stalled our progress, because that juiced up result early last year made us question if the direction we were heading in was the right one!
Some of these "World's Best Practice" training and fitness techniques are a worry as well. This to me relates to the "Train Smarter, Not Harder" ideology, and the warning bells for me are the "Not Harder" part. Winners will do both, the smarter techniques should just be seen as the icing on the cake not a complete alternative!
I can understand the "Smarter Not Harder" ethos, if your a 50 year old and want to run your first marathon the "Smarter Not Harder" stuff might help you get across the line where a hard training regime might just kill you. But you won't win the marathon not by a long way!
So why do I think this is important relative to someone like Yarran. Because often the "Train Smarter, Not Harder" ethos is part of the lazy trainers lament!
Nah, he's gone backwards. Who's at fault is debatable but he is just plain awful ATM, a shadow of the player we've been used to seeing over the previous 2 years. Think about it. no one would've entertained trading Yarran over the past two years but now everyone is happy to fk him off. He's gone backwards no doubt about it.
So why has he gone backwards? Is it injury? Is it lack of game time or opportunity? What's changed in 6 months?
The only things I reckon that has happened is he is playing a different role and he has had the acid put on him by Malthouse.
To the first part. Playing half forward flank doesn't seem to worry Christensen, Motlop, Thomas and Wingard. So he should be able to have an impact.
To the second part. Mick dropped him and applied the acid. There is a old saying that you really don't know someone until you have pinched them and you see how they respond. Remember the Essendon game against West Coast when Hird gave Sheedy the big "screw you" with a raised fist to the coaching box after he kicked a goal. Clearly Sheedy told him something he didn't like, but he went out to prove him wrong rather than drop the lip.
I guess I hoped Yarran would do like Hird did, but at the moment it looks like he has responded like my 4 year old son. I just don't think it ever going to happen with Yarran and in ten years time he might have a goal of the year to his name when he should have countless more important honors and it will be everyone else fault that he didn't make it.
He has shown a real lack of character for mine and I hope I am wrong because I love the player he could be.
If it's to be it's up to me.
Fair points Shakin, I just have an awful sinking feeling that he will find his best, at another club. Some players require different treatment. For example (and i know you wont like this) he has gone easy on Murphy for sure from where I sit. i'd love for him to put it to Murph like he has Yazz. Somehow i don't think that will happen. Does this make him a good coach, or a hypocrite?
Nah, he's gone backwards. Who's at fault is debatable but he is just plain awful ATM, a shadow of the player we've been used to seeing over the previous 2 years. Think about it. no one would've entertained trading Yarran over the past two years but now everyone is happy to fk him off. He's gone backwards no doubt about it.
So why has he gone backwards? Is it injury? Is it lack of game time or opportunity? What's changed in 6 months?
The only things I reckon that has happened is he is playing a different role and he has had the acid put on him by Malthouse.
To the first part. Playing half forward flank doesn't seem to worry Christensen, Motlop, Thomas and Wingard. So he should be able to have an impact.
To the second part. Mick dropped him and applied the acid. There is a old saying that you really don't know someone until you have pinched them and you see how they respond. Remember the Essendon game against West Coast when Hird gave Sheedy the big "screw you" with a raised fist to the coaching box after he kicked a goal. Clearly Sheedy told him something he didn't like, but he went out to prove him wrong rather than drop the lip.
I guess I hoped Yarran would do like Hird did, but at the moment it looks like he has responded like my 4 year old son. I just don't think it ever going to happen with Yarran and in ten years time he might have a goal of the year to his name when he should have countless more important honors and it will be everyone else fault that he didn't make it.
He has shown a real lack of character for mine and I hope I am wrong because I love the player he could be.
If it's to be it's up to me.
Great post Shakin....top shelf.
Interesting Sheahan and Roos had their crack last night on OTC. They both said he's a huge concern, Sheahan said his mail is he will be traded for sure. If Sheahan knows this it's not hard to see why Yarran looked like he was going through the motions. He won't be here next year. Big cross to Malthouse with many more to come IMO.
Interesting Sheahan and Roos had their crack last night on OTC. They both said he's a huge concern, Sheahan said his mail is he will be traded for sure. If Sheahan knows this it's not hard to see why Yarran looked like he was going through the motions. He won't be here next year. Big cross to Malthouse with many more to come IMO.
Interesting PI2C. Wonder if a deal "in principle" has been done already with another club if Sheahan is in fact right? The interesting thing also is the question of if he's going why is he still playing - can't be doing him or CFC any good surely?
For too long Carlton Football club has been about individuals.
Yarran is talented, and its a testament to why he has to go if he is going to just "go through the motions" if he indeed wants out.
I want 22 soldiers who despise losing to the point where they will play well in spite of what is going on rather than will play poorly to spite their current coach knowing they have one foot out the door.
For too long Carlton Football club has been about individuals.
Yarran is talented, and its a testament to why he has to go if he is going to just "go through the motions" if he indeed wants out.
I want 22 soldiers who despise losing to the point where they will play well in spite of what is going on rather than will play poorly to spite their current coach knowing they have one foot out the door.
This with some Karma
For too long Carlton Football club has been about individuals.
Yarran is talented, and its a testament to why he has to go if he is going to just "go through the motions" if he indeed wants out.
I want 22 soldiers who despise losing to the point where they will play well in spite of what is going on rather than will play poorly to spite their current coach knowing they have one foot out the door.
So how is Yarran different to anyone else. Why is he Malthouse's scapegoat? He blamed the loss to the Scum on him. Malthouse is picking and choosing who he goes for, just like EB accuses Yarran of picking and choosing when he goes. Hypocrite much (not EB)? What's good for Yazz is good for everyone else, how about singling out a few others Malthouse. How about Murphy's pi55weak efforts to tackle earlier in the year? Bryce's lack of heart? He's probably worried he may 'lose' these players if he goes after them but I get the feeling he never really liked yarran anyway and is happy to risk him. Unfortunately, it's had the domino effect with his fellow 'Amigos' and backfired on him.
Interesting Sheahan and Roos had their crack last night on OTC. They both said he's a huge concern, Sheahan said his mail is he will be traded for sure. If Sheahan knows this it's not hard to see why Yarran looked like he was going through the motions. He won't be here next year. Big cross to Malthouse with many more to come IMO.
Sheahan has made many calls on many players that go nowhere (eg. Cloke, Boak).
Yarran has gne backwards - I blame Malthouse
Me too.
Got to stop blaming the coach. In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day. If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I said when Ratten was sacked that after pathetic performances against Port Adelaide and Gold Coast the players had the coaches blood on their hands.
I hate calling footballers "soft", as they play an incredible tough game, but our boys are mentally weak and every time they get labelled as soft I think "here we go!" I can't wait for the response.... waiting.... waiting.... little bit of push and shove against St.Kilda.... still waiting. Nothing.
Here is the scenario with Yarran.
I don't work hard enough.
I am not fit enough.
I don't chase hard enough.
I don't commit myself to the contest.
I put my interest before the team.
I don't respond to a challenge.
It's your fault.
Chris Yarran is epidemic of what's is wrong at Carlton Football Club across the board.
Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Chris Yarran is epidemic of what's is wrong at Carlton Football Club across the board.
So if he is part of a widespread epidemic, why is he being treated differently to the rest of the offenders? That's my point, if MM is going to challenge players publicly, how about not picking and choosing, how about throwing a blanket over the lot and telling them all to pull their socks up. The way he's playing it is way wrong AFAIC. And if he's for real Yarran will be dropped this week, if he isn't it's a sure fire sign that even Malthouse knows he erred earlier in the year.
Chris Yarran is epidemic of what's is wrong at Carlton Football Club across the board.
So if he is part of a widespread epidemic, why is he being treated differently to the rest of the offenders? That's my point, if MM is going to challenge players publicly, how about not picking and choosing, how about throwing a blanket over the lot and telling them all to pull their socks up. The way he's playing it is way wrong AFAIC. And if he's for real Yarran will be dropped this week, if he isn't it's a sure fire sign that even Malthouse knows he erred earlier in the year.
How is he being treated differently?
How many other players have been named the sub? 19. How many have sooked it up? One. If Lucas sooked it up then he gets the same treatment. But he hasn't.
Murphy copped it Saturday night. Betts also. What has Yarran had to deal with that has made it so hard for him?
For too long Carlton Football club has been about individuals.
Yarran is talented, and its a testament to why he has to go if he is going to just "go through the motions" if he indeed wants out.
I want 22 soldiers who despise losing to the point where they will play well in spite of what is going on rather than will play poorly to spite their current coach knowing they have one foot out the door.
So how is Yarran different to anyone else. Why is he Malthouse's scapegoat? He blamed the loss to the Scum on him. Malthouse is picking and choosing who he goes for, just like EB accuses Yarran of picking and choosing when he goes. Hypocrite much? What's good for Yazz is good for everyone else, how about singling out a few others Malthouse. How about Murphy's pi55weak efforts to tackle earlier in the year? Bryce's lack of heart? He's probably worried he may 'lose' these players if he goes after them but I get the feeling he never really liked yarran anyway and is happy to risk him. Unfortunately, it's had the domino effect with his fellow 'Amigos' and backfired on him.
For too long Carlton Football club has been about individuals.
Malthouse knows a bit more about sending a message to a playing group than we do, and I think that our allegiance to this playing group is not worth it for ANY of them, and Im backing the coach. This mob failed to extract a digit to beat the competitions whipping boys last season and ultimately ousted a club legend as coach in the process. Side with them if you like, but for me its line in the sand time with the playing group. Why? Because they continually fail to draw the line themselves, and decide that they leave it to others. So Malthouse and I are drawing the line for them.
You can tow the line and play Malthouse football or you can feck off, and that starts with Chris Judd and finished with Marcus Davies, and goes through every player in between.
Its time we did the right thing rather than stick with fickle talent. After all, Geelong were able to lose Gary Ablett Junior, and go on to win another flag. Hawthorn sacrificed Gary Ablett Senior and setup their team for 5 premierships. Perhaps Yarran will be the catalyst in our team transforming into a truly galvanised unit.
Then and only then should we worry about whether or not the coach is worth the money we are paying him.
This isnt about him being treated differently, this is about treating them all the same. He may be starting with Yarran as he might be the toughest nut to crack. Perhaps it might be that despite what we think, he might never be the sort of player that we need him to be. Who knows? I bet you the coach has more of an idea than we do.
Chris Yarran is epidemic of what's is wrong at Carlton Football Club across the board.
So if he is part of a widespread epidemic, why is he being treated differently to the rest of the offenders? That's my point, if MM is going to challenge players publicly, how about not picking and choosing, how about throwing a blanket over the lot and telling them all to pull their socks up. The way he's playing it is way wrong AFAIC. And if he's for real Yarran will be dropped this week, if he isn't it's a sure fire sign that even Malthouse knows he erred earlier in the year.
How is he being treated differently?
How many other players have been named the sub? 19. How many have sooked it up? One. If Lucas sooked it up then he gets the same treatment. But he hasn't.
Murphy copped it Saturday night. Betts also. What has Yarran had to deal with that has made it so hard for him?
Yarran was clearly made the scapegoat for the side after the loss to the Scum. Publicly.
Murphy's turn was well overdue from where I sit (maybe not in your opinion) so this is what I'm talking about when giving others leeway and the double standards with MM. Had he adressed the Murphyt issues as promptly and as openly as he did Yarran's we may not be seeing what we're seeing from Murph now. He actually stuck up for Murphy but he went straight after Yarran.
Got to stop blaming the coach. In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day. If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I said when Ratten was sacked that after pathetic performances against Port Adelaide and Gold Coast the players had the coaches blood on their hands.
I hate calling footballers "soft", as they play an incredible tough game, but our boys are mentally weak and every time they get labelled as soft I think "here we go!" I can't wait for the response.... waiting.... waiting.... little bit of push and shove against St.Kilda.... still waiting. Nothing.
Here is the scenario with Yarran.
I don't work hard enough.
I am not fit enough.
I don't chase hard enough.
I don't commit myself to the contest.
I put my interest before the team.
I don't respond to a challenge.
It's your fault.
Chris Yarran is epidemic of what's is wrong at Carlton Football Club across the board.
Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can" all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.
You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have :-\ And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?
Malthouse has moved players on in the past. Mal Michael, Tarrant, Nick Davis (gee there is a good comparison).
Tarrant did grow up late in his career, but if it's was a little bit too hard and you couldn't follow the team principles then it's see you later.
Malthouse has moved players on in the past. Mal Michael, Tarrant, Nick Davis (gee there is a good comparison).
Tarrant did grow up late in his career, but if it's was a little bit too hard and you couldn't follow the team principles then it's see you later.
Mal Michael left for family reasons by memory, don't recall any issue with Mick?? Davis never settled at the Pies but do recall he had issues there and at the Swans. Tarrant yeah maybe but it took a first year coach to recognise he had better skills as a back man and got more out of him ::)
Mick's an ok coach, but I'm getting sick at the way he and others blame the players.
Got to stop blaming the coach. In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day. If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I said when Ratten was sacked that after pathetic performances against Port Adelaide and Gold Coast the players had the coaches blood on their hands.
I hate calling footballers "soft", as they play an incredible tough game, but our boys are mentally weak and every time they get labelled as soft I think "here we go!" I can't wait for the response.... waiting.... waiting.... little bit of push and shove against St.Kilda.... still waiting. Nothing.
Here is the scenario with Yarran.
I don't work hard enough.
I am not fit enough.
I don't chase hard enough.
I don't commit myself to the contest.
I put my interest before the team.
I don't respond to a challenge.
It's your fault.
Chris Yarran is epidemic of what's is wrong at Carlton Football Club across the board.
Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can" all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.
You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have :-\ And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?
Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton -
all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......
3 number 1 draft picks.
You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.
In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.
Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?
If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.
Yarran is an easy target.
The problem is much bigger than him.
ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?
Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......
3 number 1 draft picks.
You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.
In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.
Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?
If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.
Yarran is an easy target.
The problem is much bigger than him.
ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?
Thankyou very forking much exactly the point I'm trying to make, why is Yarran the problem? Two of the others mentioned have played 150 games, kreuzer 100. The difference is these guys get excuses thrown up for them all the time, from the coach, the fans, posters etc. Everyone just goes straight for Yazz no quaestions asked, no comparison to the others. Doulbe standards rife at the CFC....and CSC.
Got to stop blaming the coach. In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day. If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I said when Ratten was sacked that after pathetic performances against Port Adelaide and Gold Coast the players had the coaches blood on their hands.
I hate calling footballers "soft", as they play an incredible tough game, but our boys are mentally weak and every time they get labelled as soft I think "here we go!" I can't wait for the response.... waiting.... waiting.... little bit of push and shove against St.Kilda.... still waiting. Nothing.
Here is the scenario with Yarran.
I don't work hard enough.
I am not fit enough.
I don't chase hard enough.
I don't commit myself to the contest.
I put my interest before the team.
I don't respond to a challenge.
It's your fault.
Chris Yarran is epidemic of what's is wrong at Carlton Football Club across the board.
Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can" all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.
You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have :-\ And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?
Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......
3 number 1 draft picks.
You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.
In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.
Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?
If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.
Yarran is an easy target.
The problem is much bigger than him.
ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?
I put AW in a different basket to that lot I see AW as trying where the other seem content just to take whatever comes and what personality shows up on game day is a flip of the coin.
But ultimately for different reasons I agree I see Murphy, Gibbs, Kruzer and Jamo as the core of our problems.
fair call, 1AW does put in, usually plays a very decent game and looks really peeed off when the cards don't fall his way....
The others (maybe a bit harsh on Kreuzer too) seem more worried about their designer hair dos.
Got to stop blaming the coach. In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day. If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I said when Ratten was sacked that after pathetic performances against Port Adelaide and Gold Coast the players had the coaches blood on their hands.
I hate calling footballers "soft", as they play an incredible tough game, but our boys are mentally weak and every time they get labelled as soft I think "here we go!" I can't wait for the response.... waiting.... waiting.... little bit of push and shove against St.Kilda.... still waiting. Nothing.
Here is the scenario with Yarran.
I don't work hard enough.
I am not fit enough.
I don't chase hard enough.
I don't commit myself to the contest.
I put my interest before the team.
I don't respond to a challenge.
It's your fault.
Chris Yarran is epidemic of what's is wrong at Carlton Football Club across the board.
Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can" all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.
You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have :-\ And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?
Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......
3 number 1 draft picks.
You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.
In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.
Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?
If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.
Yarran is an easy target.
The problem is much bigger than him.
ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?
I call Bullcrap. Young players with talent and character don't need anyone to show them the way. They step up and do their role. Chad Wingard has it inside him. The drive. The passion. He wants it. It hurts when he loses and he trains his arse off so it doesn't happen again. He chases. Tackles. Do you think he looks at Boak and Hartlett for the way? Does he point at Hartlett when he gets tagged out of games?
Pagan will save us.
Pratt will save us.
Our number one picks will save us.
Judd will save us.
Malthouse will save us.
See a pattern. Everyone from the President to the boot studder has to lift and rise to the challenge. Gibbs, Murphy, Kruezer, Yarran, Jamo. Everyone.
How about you step and do something about it rather than "dropping your lip and having a sook". What do you think would happen at Sydney if the sub carried on like Yarran? How many weeks would he spend at Preston? 6? 8? Would he play again?
We have made excuses for crap behaviour for too long. It's Murphy's fault that Yarran can't chase.
Give me a spell and all players need to take the responsibility.
And for the record Kruezer since being the number one ruck has been very good. Check his stats from Round 10 on.
I call Bullcrap. Young players with talent and character don't need anyone to show them the way.
Right back at you. I call BS to you.
If the leaders don't give a f..... how the heck are the younger troops?
Wingard is by far the exception not the rule - and by the way he's only 181cm, 81kg so those who bumble on about midfield size.... plwease.
MM is prepared to bag out Yazz, Betts publicly it seems and others but never the Murphys, Jamos or the Gibbs? Why is that?
What sort of message does that send to the playing group?
Double standards?
Granted Gibbs should be played mid/forward but should have been dropped earlier in the season, ditto Simmo at the start (and maybe would have been but for Carrots going down).
Why hasn't Laidler been given a game given our very soft defence , and don't give me the form in the 2s gargle.....
I've heard Laidler doesn't even know why he's on the outer? Whether that's true who knows but when Simon White (the zero stat guy?) kept getting picked.... odd? Reeks of stubbornness.
Ditto Bootsma who simply isn't physically capable yet.....
ps why bag out the small forwards in any event?
If the mids are getting creamed ie no first use of the ball and whenever we do win the pill our delivery into the forward line is as bad as GWS, well there's a few questions there no?
How has Malthouse treated Yarran differently from any other player?
It's Murphy's fault that Yarran can't chase.
What's Murphy's excuse for not chasing and tackling?
How has Malthouse treated Yarran differently from any other player?
He's publicly criticised him for starters.
It's Murphy's fault that Yarran can't chase.
What's Murphy's excuse for not chasing and tackling?
2011 AFLCA Player of the year. Has proved that he can play. Voted by the Coaches. Not sure they would give votes to a bloke that can't chase and tackle.
I agree he is out of form, but he has at least shown that he can do it.
Yarran on the other hand has 4 times the ability than Kieren Jack and yet is that fair behind him as a footballer it isn't funny.
Got to stop blaming the coach. In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day. If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation...........
.....Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can" all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.
You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have :-\ And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?
Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......
3 number 1 draft picks.
You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.
In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.
Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?
If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.
Yarran is an easy target.
The problem is much bigger than him.
ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?
I call Bullcrap. Young players with talent and character don't need anyone to show them the way. They step up and do their role. Chad Wingard has it inside him. The drive. The passion. He wants it. It hurts when he loses and he trains his arse off so it doesn't happen again. He chases. Tackles. Do you think he looks at Boak and Hartlett for the way? Does he point at Hartlett when he gets tagged out of games?
......... Everyone.
.....
Give me a spell and all players need to take the responsibility.
It amazes me how knowledgeable you are of players' state of mind and character. Wingard is a very good player and will only get better under the right guidance. He doesn't get the number one tag so doesn't need anything from Boak or Harlett. Again a first year coach has got more out of a basket case club/team than our Mick has with a full list to chose from.
It's Murphy's fault that Yarran can't chase.
What's Murphy's excuse for not chasing and tackling?
2011 AFLCA Player of the year. Has proved that he can play. Voted by the Coaches. Not sure they would give votes to a bloke that can't chase and tackle.
I agree he is out of form, but he has at least shown that he can do it.
Yarran on the other hand has 4 times the ability than Kieren Jack and yet is that fair behind him as a footballer it isn't funny.
I reckon Murphy has a fair bit of untapped potential as well.
I counter your argument by saying Yarran too has shown he can do it (not to the extent of Murphy), under the right guidance, when played in the right position. He wasn't wearing tags off defensive forwards in the previous two seasons for no reason yeah?
The fact that Murph has been at the pinnacle, has chased and tackled and has won that award makes his form even more concerning than Yarran's IMO. If he's been there, and he's the captain, surely he needs to lead the way?
Anyway this isn't about Murphy, this about eliminating double standards and showing the same amount if respect to each and every player. ATM I can't see Yarran responding the way things are going and see him gone at season's end, probably for a lot less than he's worth. MM is the coahc it's up to him to get the best out of our players. He's failed dismally with yarran who let's be honest, was the future of our club.
As stupid as this sounds, I think the issue is way bigger than any one player or way smaller than any one player (hear me out, I have logic behind this ridiculous statement!!).
We have had so very many players performing so far lower than what we expect from them that it could easily be argued that Mick has already lost the playing group as a whole... except for the fact that any time we see or hear a player interviewed they all seem extremely happy and speak glowingly about the improvements that we've made as a team in a variety of areas under Malthouse.
I can usually see 'spin' when it's right in front of me, and I don't think the players have been guilty of that. I honestly believe they feel that they have improved overall and are very happy with the direction of the team.
What we haven't really seen too much of this year are absolute standout performances by any one player and, in previous years, this was something we had become very much accustomed to seeing so the new 'absence' of these performances have seemed very alarming to many.
What we HAVE seen more of this season, however, is a far more even spread of performers with a much greater spread of statistics. We have been far more consistent across the park and haven't just been carried across the line by any one or two players like we used to be.
Remember the phrase 'No Judd, no Carlton'?
While it's still far too early to tell, I do believe we will be better off in the long run for having this greater variety of contributors as it makes us less predictable.
What I haven't particularly enjoyed is the lack of apparent fire and passion in the side that has been almost synonymous with the Carlton jumper for as long as I have been following footy. Maybe it's a product of all of the changes in line ups we've had this season, but I don't get the impression that the players on the field 'bleed Navy' like we've come to expect from our boys.
This has to change and I think will be a driving factor behind any list changes Malthouse and co make at the end of this season. Anyone not willing to tow the team line and put the jumper ahead of their own individual performance will be shown the door.
Yarran gets singled out because he is the most glaringly obvious case of this ailment and it is why many argue that trading him out now would be a win/win for both clubs involved.
His heart doesn't appear in it for whatever reason that may be, but every single club in the AFL realise how outstandingly talented he is, so the compensation offered if he was to be traded would certainly be a draft pick in the 5-8 range or a similar quality player who may be underperforming at their own club for whatever reason (or a combination of both adding up to this sort of value).
I don't think Yarran will be Johnny Lonesome when these sort of cuts are made to the list either, so expect some fireworks both on this forum and at the club itself as we get closer to trade week and the draft.
I'm expecting to see at least 3-4 new players join the club via Free Agency and probably around 5-6 live selections in the National Draft. At least 2 of those selections will likely be first rounders as we will almost certainly look to make at least one or two trades to improve draft position.
Good post Nathbear but if Yazz wants out we don't have any bargaining power unfortunately, so getting 5-8 is dreaming of the good life. I'm thinking 25 and 36 or something of the like.
Got to stop blaming the coach. In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day. If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation...........
.....Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can" all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.
You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have :-\ And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?
Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......
3 number 1 draft picks.
You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.
In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.
Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?
If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.
Yarran is an easy target.
The problem is much bigger than him.
ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?
I call Bullcrap. Young players with talent and character don't need anyone to show them the way. They step up and do their role. Chad Wingard has it inside him. The drive. The passion. He wants it. It hurts when he loses and he trains his arse off so it doesn't happen again. He chases. Tackles. Do you think he looks at Boak and Hartlett for the way? Does he point at Hartlett when he gets tagged out of games?
......... Everyone.
.....
Give me a spell and all players need to take the responsibility.
It amazes me how knowledgeable you are of players' state of mind and character. Wingard is a very good player and will only get better under the right guidance. He doesn't get the number one tag so doesn't need anything from Boak or Harlett. Again a first year coach has got more out of a basket case club/team than our Mick has with a full list to chose from.
Thank you. Wingard is a quality individual. I just don't think he would respond to getting the subs vest the way Yarran did. I actually can't think of many that would.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
No need, they never would've made him sub in the first place! :P Stupid move that backfired and I'm sure if MM could have his time again he'd take it back ( not that the stubborn old fool would admit to it), not for the sake of Yazz's attitude but to get the 4 points off the Scum. They must've jumped for joy when they saw Yazz as sub for that game. If I was Tird I would've been wearing the cheshire cat grin.
BTW I could be wrong but I think the 'knowledgable' comment was sarcasm (though I could be wrong). :P
Got to stop blaming the coach. In Malthouse's short time at the club he wouldn't have had that much of an impact to stop Yarran having an influence on game day. If Yarran had of stepped up and shown a little bit of character we wouldn't be having this conversation...........
.....Easier to point the finger at someone else rather than stepping up yourself.
Malthouse is the "turn around" coach, "able to get the best out of players" "if he can't get the best out of under performing player no one can" all statements I've heard from commentators and fans.
You say Yarran is all those things above, hope you're not expecting anything but a 3rd round pick at best, because if Mick is so good at getting the best out players what hope does any other have :-\ And if there is one then why didn't we chase him?
Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, even Jamo and Special K are what is wrong with Carlton - all 100 game + now ...... they are the guys who should be leading from the front, standing up when the game gets tight.......
3 number 1 draft picks.
You could throw 1AW in there too...... and McLean.
In general, ALL OF THEM fail to do that way when needed too often.
Are they being used incorrectly, are they just not hungry enough (or what)?
If those guys lead by example, younger guys like Yarran will most likely follow suit.
Yarran is an easy target.
The problem is much bigger than him.
ps Shakin, you would have no idea how fit Yarran is, he looks a heck of a lot fitter/agile/quicker than Gibbs or Murphy right now?
I call Bullcrap. Young players with talent and character don't need anyone to show them the way. They step up and do their role. Chad Wingard has it inside him. The drive. The passion. He wants it. It hurts when he loses and he trains his arse off so it doesn't happen again. He chases. Tackles. Do you think he looks at Boak and Hartlett for the way? Does he point at Hartlett when he gets tagged out of games?
......... Everyone.
.....
Give me a spell and all players need to take the responsibility.
It amazes me how knowledgeable you are of players' state of mind and character. Wingard is a very good player and will only get better under the right guidance. He doesn't get the number one tag so doesn't need anything from Boak or Harlett. Again a first year coach has got more out of a basket case club/team than our Mick has with a full list to chose from.
Thank you. Wingard is a quality individual. I just don't think he would respond to getting the subs vest the way Yarran did. I actually can't think of many that would.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
Interesting that Yarran had 15 touches, 7 tackles and 3 goals the week prior to being made sub.
Nah, he's gone backwards. Who's at fault is debatable but he is just plain awful ATM, a shadow of the player we've been used to seeing over the previous 2 years. Think about it. no one would've entertained trading Yarran over the past two years but now everyone is happy to fk him off. He's gone backwards no doubt about it.
So why has he gone backwards? Is it injury? Is it lack of game time or opportunity? What's changed in 6 months?
The only things I reckon that has happened is he is playing a different role and he has had the acid put on him by Malthouse.
To the first part. Playing half forward flank doesn't seem to worry Christensen, Motlop, Thomas and Wingard. So he should be able to have an impact.
To the second part. Mick dropped him and applied the acid. There is a old saying that you really don't know someone until you have pinched them and you see how they respond. Remember the Essendon game against West Coast when Hird gave Sheedy the big "screw you" with a raised fist to the coaching box after he kicked a goal. Clearly Sheedy told him something he didn't like, but he went out to prove him wrong rather than drop the lip.
I guess I hoped Yarran would do like Hird did, but at the moment it looks like he has responded like my 4 year old son. I just don't think it ever going to happen with Yarran and in ten years time he might have a goal of the year to his name when he should have countless more important honors and it will be everyone else fault that he didn't make it.
He has shown a real lack of character for mine and I hope I am wrong because I love the player he could be.
If it's to be it's up to me.
Great post Shakin....top shelf.
Terrific post Shakin.
Interesting that Yarran had 15 touches, 7 tackles and 3 goals the week prior to being made sub.
Against who? :))
No need, they never would've made him sub in the first place! :P Stupid move that backfired and I'm sure if MM could have his time again he'd take it back ( not that the stubborn old fool would admit to it), not for the sake of Yazz's attitude but to get the 4 points off the Scum. They must've jumped for joy when they saw Yazz as sub for that game. If I was Tird I would've been wearing the cheshire cat grin.
BTW I could be wrong but I think the 'knowledgable' comment was sarcasm (though I could be wrong). :P
It may have been the wrong move, however the response from a professional footballer was disgraceful. Game all square and in the balance. On comes our biggest impact player and ???? Oh Dear. What's the matter Yaz? Mick make you the sub? Gee that's tough. You could come out and show the old prick he was wrong or you could drop the lip and sit in the corner.
Lewis Jetta was the sub in round 5. Jack Gunston for the Hawks Mathew Stokes in Round 2. Hasn't looked back. Allen Christensen Round 10. Mitch Duncan Round 11. Brock McLean. How did these blokes manage to survive.
I gathered it was sarcasm from Goat, but as it was the closet he has got to a relevant point I thought it would be best to acknowledge it.
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
You missed it. I will give you another chance.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
No need, they never would've made him sub in the first place! :P Stupid move that backfired and I'm sure if MM could have his time again he'd take it back ( not that the stubborn old fool would admit to it), not for the sake of Yazz's attitude but to get the 4 points off the Scum. They must've jumped for joy when they saw Yazz as sub for that game. If I was Tird I would've been wearing the cheshire cat grin.
BTW I could be wrong but I think the 'knowledgable' comment was sarcasm (though I could be wrong). :P
It may have been the wrong move, however the response from a professional footballer was disgraceful. Game all square and in the balance. On comes our biggest impact player and ???? Oh Dear. What's the matter Yaz? Mick make you the sub? Gee that's tough. You could come out and show the old prick he was wrong or you could drop the lip and sit in the corner.
Lewis Jetta was the sub in round 5. Jack Gunston for the Hawks Mathew Stokes in Round 2. Hasn't looked back. Allen Christensen Round 10. Mitch Duncan Round 11. Brock McLean. How did these blokes manage to survive.
I gathered it was sarcasm from Goat, but as it was the closet he has got to a relevant point I thought it would be best to acknowledge it.
Yeah I agree, for sure. But if said subs didn't perform, pretty sure their respective coaches weren't pointing the finger at them the following monday. I get your point, do you get mine?
With Yarran and the rest of them Im confident MM just needs another preseason to change things. These blokes are used to getting away with what they wanted when Ratts was here, they were used to being told what they wanted to hear and not what they needed to hear. It’s the coaches decision where they play and not the players.
Im confident we will have 2-4 new assistant coaches coming in plus a new fitness coach. The place is going to change dramatically for the better and im hoping this is the formula that changes the dynamic of the group. Also hopefully we get lucky come trade time with free agency and the offloading of players.
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
You missed it. I will give you another chance.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
The behaviour was a result of an action, they wouldn't have made sub, or if they did communicate exactly why and what the expectation is. Whether that happened or not we don't know.
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
You missed it. I will give you another chance.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
At Sydney he would have been dropped, and the playing group would have supported it in fact they may even have driven it. The message gets in faster because everyone is saying the same thing.
At Carlton, he became a sub, and almost overnight we lost Jeff, and Eddie's form to go with it, and correct me if Im wrong, but Andrew Walker has not reach the lofty heights he set earlier on either. Our club is run by the players. The Carlton world urinates in their pockets, and they get away with what they like.
I have heard whispers from people who know family of Murph. All is not right down at Carlton. Thing is, the playing group is turning on itself because they are behaving as they always behave. Misbehave and sack the coach. The unfortunate thing they dont know? Mick is there, and he is there to stay. You dont walk the line, you can walk out the door. Starting with the most talented one of all.
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
You missed it. I will give you another chance.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
The behaviour was a result of an action, they wouldn't have made sub, or if they did communicate exactly why and what the expectation is. Whether that happened or not we don't know.
What does this even mean? Can you re-write this in proper English. I could however take a guess and say that it is not the player's fault that he performed so poorly after being subbed. It is the Coach's fault. Correct?
If so..let's not drop anyone ever again for not meeting expectations. In fact, lets have the players pick the team..but then who do we blame if they do not perform?!
Seriously....as we say in Ireland..catch yourself on mate.
Yarran is an ADULT. Not a Boy.
He is professional adult paid via sponsorship and our Membership money to perform at his best and his coaches expectations - week in week out. If he does not put his body on the line and toe the company line then he can go and get stuffed. Talent is nothing without buy-in. We have too many Peacocks in this team already. He either steps up or he will be traded for someone who gives a crap.
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
You missed it. I will give you another chance.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
The behaviour was a result of an action, they wouldn't have made sub, or if they did communicate exactly why and what the expectation is. Whether that happened or not we don't know.
What does this even mean? Can you re-write this in proper English. I could however take a guess and say that it is not the player's fault that he performed so poorly after being subbed. It is the Coach's fault. Correct?
If so..let's not drop anyone ever again for not meeting expectations. In fact, lets have the players pick the team..but then who do we blame if they do not perform?!
Seriously....as we say in Ireland..catch yourself on mate.
Yarran is an ADULT. Not a Boy.
He is professional adult paid via sponsorship and our Membership money to perform at his best and his coaches expectations - week in week out. If he does not put his body on the line and toe the company line then he can go and get stuffed. Talent is nothing without buy-in. We have too many Peacocks in this team already. He either steps up or he will be traded for someone who gives a crap.
Here here Woody
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
You missed it. I will give you another chance.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
The behaviour was a result of an action, they wouldn't have made sub, or if they did communicate exactly why and what the expectation is. Whether that happened or not we don't know.
What does this even mean? Can you re-write this in proper English. I could however take a guess and say that it is not the player's fault that he performed so poorly after being subbed. It is the Coach's fault. Correct?
If so..let's not drop anyone ever again for not meeting expectations. In fact, lets have the players pick the team..but then who do we blame if they do not perform?!
Seriously....as we say in Ireland..catch yourself on mate.
Yarran is an ADULT. Not a Boy.
He is professional adult paid via sponsorship and our Membership money to perform at his best and his coaches expectations - week in week out. If he does not put his body on the line and toe the company line then he can go and get stuffed. Talent is nothing without buy-in. We have too many Peacocks in this team already. He either steps up or he will be traded for someone who gives a crap.
There you go... good gear. It's called accountability and the top clubs have heaps of it, along with leadership buy-in from all players on the track - not just the leadership group.
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
You missed it. I will give you another chance.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
The behaviour was a result of an action, they wouldn't have made sub, or if they did communicate exactly why and what the expectation is. Whether that happened or not we don't know.
What does this even mean? Can you re-write this in proper English. I could however take a guess and say that it is not the player's fault that he performed so poorly after being subbed. It is the Coach's fault. Correct?
If so..let's not drop anyone ever again for not meeting expectations. In fact, lets have the players pick the team..but then who do we blame if they do not perform?!
Seriously....as we say in Ireland..catch yourself on mate.
Yarran is an ADULT. Not a Boy.
He is professional adult paid via sponsorship and our Membership money to perform at his best and his coaches expectations - week in week out. If he does not put his body on the line and toe the company line then he can go and get stuffed. Talent is nothing without buy-in. We have too many Peacocks in this team already. He either steps up or he will be traded for someone who gives a crap.
Pink is pink, brown is brown, but there are many shades of grey.....?
Who knows what exactly MM has said to Yarran and how offensive it may have been to Chris?
MM is old school and not a favourite of diplomacy?
You state:
Yarran is an ADULT. Not a Boy.
Well, I could retort:
Murphy is a CAPTAIN. Not a Boy.Get him playing close to his potential,showing what is expected from him as the senior leader at CFC, onfield especially (I don't give a rats if he swallows gerbils in his time off) and then have a crack at Chris Yarran.
Ditto that old handbag carrier Bryce.
Nah it's different rules for different players, that's what's so annoying but nobody gets it. You can only say it so many times.
Nah it's different rules for different players, that's what's so annoying but nobody gets it. You can only say it so many times.
funny thing is i reckon murphy is fully onside with Yazz and both reckon MM's ego driven 'make CY a sub' was amateur petty stuff.
Nah it's different rules for different players, that's what's so annoying but nobody gets it. You can only say it so many times.
You are starting to sound like Jimbo.
You can say it repeatedly, how about backing it up with some facts.
What i am hearing from you is that Yarran has been ruined by Mick Malthouse and that he was an out and and star under Ratten. Your opinion, and so be it.
What i recall is that he had some great games under Ratten, but he also had some shockers were he was tagged out of the game, wouldn't chase or tackle and generally sulked.
I actually recall Malthouse complaining about the way Yarran sooked, while commentating, about when he got himself injured and carried on. Malthouse did not like the fact he put himself ahead of the team and showed weakness. The majority of people agreed.
Alternatively Yarran has had some great games this year too. West Coast and despite the late misses, Tigers as well. In fact, a lot of the early games he was very good.
I know you're angry with the club, and specifically Mick. I think your anger is playing tricks with your memory.
I think you'll also find that Mick has chastised many at the club thus far. Robbo and Walker have got some bench abuse and there have been plenty of others. I actually think the ONLY reason Yarran has received so much attention is because the media knows something about that whole scenario that it is not letting on (verbal backlash from Yarran? Off-field issues). THEN the way Yarran responded, badly, added more fuel to the fire.
I get you're on a witch hunt and want whats best for the club. I just think you've got the blinkers on.
FWIW, your value on Yarran is way off. Clubs realise his talent and despite a recent drop in form, a first round pick is all but guaranteed.
Nah it's different rules for different players, that's what's so annoying but nobody gets it. You can only say it so many times.
You are starting to sound like Jimbo.
You can say it repeatedly, how about backing it up with some facts.
What i am hearing from you is that Yarran has been ruined by Mick Malthouse and that he was an out and and star under Ratten. Your opinion, and so be it.
No, what I'm saying is he was developing nicely under Ratts but has gone backwards under Malthouse. I think he's lost all passion, and more importantly all confidence. It took Ratts a good few years to build up Yazz's confidence and it seems Mick's undone it all in a few months. IMO.
What's wrong with Jimbo anyway? :P
Nah it's different rules for different players, that's what's so annoying but nobody gets it. You can only say it so many times.
You are starting to sound like Jimbo.
You can say it repeatedly, how about backing it up with some facts.
What i am hearing from you is that Yarran has been ruined by Mick Malthouse and that he was an out and and star under Ratten. Your opinion, and so be it.
No, what I'm saying is he was developing nicely under Ratts but has gone backwards under Malthouse. I think he's lost all passion, and more importantly all confidence. It took Ratts a good few years to build up Yazz's confidence and it seems Mick's undone it all in a few months. IMO.
What's wrong with Jimbo anyway? :P
Krudds,
MM needs to get the leaders at the Club to fire the f... up - to name a handful who look and play soft as floss - Gibbs, Murphy, Jamo, Special K at times, ....
Jamo has been a shadow of what he was when Duigan and Laidler were out there in his back 6.....
Get those blokes to fire up on the park and off and it's a different team that CFC puts out each week.
Can you imagine Selwood doing diddly like Murphy has for 4/5ths of the season?
Nah it's different rules for different players, that's what's so annoying but nobody gets it. You can only say it so many times.
You are starting to sound like Jimbo.
You can say it repeatedly, how about backing it up with some facts.
What i am hearing from you is that Yarran has been ruined by Mick Malthouse and that he was an out and and star under Ratten. Your opinion, and so be it.
No, what I'm saying is he was developing nicely under Ratts but has gone backwards under Malthouse. I think he's lost all passion, and more importantly all confidence. It took Ratts a good few years to build up Yazz's confidence and it seems Mick's undone it all in a few months. IMO.
What's wrong with Jimbo anyway? :P
I recall quite clearly Yazz playing for the NBs last year and he was pathetic. His attitude (and this is under Ratts, to respond to what you write above) stunk. He was blasted by team mates and was the very personification of petulance. He was booed by our supporters from the ground... then was rewarded with senior selection the following week! FMD! However, this year when he spent time in the twos, he actually tried hard and got dirty. He is better under MM, but clearly has some attitude problems. Maybe he can only be a one way, prima donna :-\
It was wrong to make him sub, yes a mistake by Mick. Mick has frrkd this one up as much as many wont accept it.
You missed it. I will give you another chance.
Goat. How do you think the top clubs would have dealt with Yarrans behaviour?
The behaviour was a result of an action, they wouldn't have made sub, or if they did communicate exactly why and what the expectation is. Whether that happened or not we don't know.
What does this even mean? Can you re-write this in proper English. I could however take a guess and say that it is not the player's fault that he performed so poorly after being subbed. It is the Coach's fault. Correct?
If so..let's not drop anyone ever again for not meeting expectations. In fact, lets have the players pick the team..but then who do we blame if they do not perform?!
Seriously....as we say in Ireland..catch yourself on mate.
Yarran is an ADULT. Not a Boy.
He is professional adult paid via sponsorship and our Membership money to perform at his best and his coaches expectations - week in week out. If he does not put his body on the line and toe the company line then he can go and get stuffed. Talent is nothing without buy-in. We have too many Peacocks in this team already. He either steps up or he will be traded for someone who gives a crap.
Not saying its not the players fault, but who here knows what was communicated to him and did they understand the impact it would have on Yarran. He was dropped after being made sub. He wasn't made sub as a punishment, if it was as punishment then why would you play him and why would you use the sub as a stick?
CY is 22 yo ffs and had a pretty darn hard life as a kid......
Some of you blokes really have no f'n idea (not directed at you personally Baggers)'
Get this guy right and he is a match winning 300 game champion for CFC but nah, most of you want to trade him now for a bag of peanuts.
What dumb ass stuff were you guys churning out at 22 yo?
I'd trade Murphy out first quite frankly on current output (if it was MM vs CY choice only)
CY is 22 yo ffs and had a pretty darn hard life as a kid......
Some of you blokes really have no f'n idea (not directed at you personally Baggers)'
Get this guy right and he is a match winning 300 game champion for CFC but nah, most of you want to trade him now for a bag of peanuts.
What dumb ass stuff were you guys churning out at 22 yo?
I'd trade Murphy out first quite frankly on current output (if it was MM vs CY choice only)
No probs, FB, didn't take it personally. I hope you're right; would love you to be right... he maybe (due to his harsh upbringing) still somewhat immature. He's got a few weeks to prove we doubters wrong and I hope he does - love to be hugely wrong on this one and end up with lots of googy on face. :)
Yarran can't pick 'n choose when he wants to play. Looked a million bucks against the Roos, pathetic against the Dockers....saw 2 instances right in front of me (Aisle 39, Level 1) whereby myself & the Carlton supporters around me collectively went nuts at Yarran's sub-par application. Don't care what his age or life experiences are, play like it means something to you ffs.
CY is 22 yo ffs and had a pretty darn hard life as a kid......
Some of you blokes really have no f'n idea (not directed at you personally Baggers)'
Get this guy right and he is a match winning 300 game champion for CFC but nah, most of you want to trade him now for a bag of peanuts.
What dumb ass stuff were you guys churning out at 22 yo?
I'd trade Murphy out first quite frankly on current output (if it was MM vs CY choice only)
I tend to agree with you flyboy, although probably with a little less gusto.
Yarran 23 at the end of the year,
Murphy just turned 26,
throw in Gibbs and Kreuzer at 24 (both of whom have had verious people ready to trade them out)
I'm not ready to give up on these blokes just yet. I'd like to give Mick maybe one more year
I have heard whispers from people who know family of Murph. All is not right down at Carlton. Thing is, the playing group is turning on itself because they are behaving as they always behave. Misbehave and sack the coach. The unfortunate thing they dont know? Mick is there, and he is there to stay. You dont walk the line, you can walk out the door. Starting with the most talented one of all.
Murphy? Absolutely zero chance he is going anywhere.
Yarran can't pick 'n choose when he wants to play. Looked a million bucks against the Roos, pathetic against the Dockers....saw 2 instances right in front of me (Aisle 39, Level 1) whereby myself & the Carlton supporters around me collectively went nuts at Yarran's sub-par application. Don't care what his age or life experiences are, play like it means something to you ffs.
I wasn't far from that either and it was the final straw for me, squibbed the contest then just gave up. If I were Mick I'd make him sub again.
Yarran can't pick 'n choose when he wants to play. Looked a million bucks against the Roos, pathetic against the Dockers....saw 2 instances right in front of me (Aisle 39, Level 1) whereby myself & the Carlton supporters around me collectively went nuts at Yarran's sub-par application. Don't care what his age or life experiences are, play like it means something to you ffs.
But Brettie, CY is one of many in our team who seemingly does that (pick n choose) - many of the so called leaders included.
That is my point. Fix the 'leaders', the pack follows......
Comparing Murphy to Yarran is laughable, Murphy puts his body on the line when he has to.
No more than Yarran. In fact I'm yet to see murphy take (or even attempt to take) a mark like Yazz did against North a few weeks back. That's what I call putting your body on the line.
Murphy Dangerfield
Murphy Hodge
Laughable I tell ya.
Meh. The Dangerfield one was a good effort but hardly running back with the flight of the ball. It was more unlucky than courageous. A whole lot easier to go in if you know what's coming. Do you see the difference? I'm tipping you don't want to.
He ran back with the flight of the ball on Saturday night and crapped himself. The worst was still to come though as he stopped and watched afterwards.
Let's get back to the fact that you label Yarran a softy but say Murphy isn't. Highlights exactly what some of us have been trying to say, yet somehow it's Yarrans fault and not the captains who really should be setting the example. One is 22 and immature, the other is 26, played over 150 games and captain of our club. Hypocrite much? Double standards at all? It's hard to take anyone with this thought process seriously.
Yarran is soft, everytime he gets beaten he limps off to the bench.
Let's get back to the fact that you label Yarran a softy but say Murphy isn't. Highlights exactly what some of us have been trying to say, yet somehow it's Yarrans fault and not the captains who really should be setting the example. One is 22 and immature, the other is 26, played over 150 games and captain of our club. Hypocrite much? Double standards at all? It's hard to take anyone with this thought process seriously.
Got no comment about Saturday night? Typical.
My thoughts on Murphy is he isn't the hardest bloke going around. He doesn't relish the physical contest like Judd or McLean but when it's his time to go he will even if it goes against his natural instincts.
Yarran is talented but is just about the biggest squib in the AFL and he's lazy to boot.
Comparing the two is laughable.
Next time you want to talk about facts about what I've said quote me.
Got no comment about Saturday night? Typical.
Got no comment about Yarrans mark vs North? Typical. I guess your hypocrisy extends far beyond just Yarran/Murphy.
Laughable I tell ya.
Got no comment about Saturday night? Typical.
Got no comment about Yarrans mark vs North? Typical. I guess your hypocrisy extends far beyond just Yarran/Murphy.
Laughable I tell ya.
It was a nice mark. Got any footage of him going in hard for the ball? Just one instance, I'll give you a month to find it.
Yeah just let me go look through my library of Chris Yarran highlights. ::)
I have heard whispers from people who know family of Murph. All is not right down at Carlton. Thing is, the playing group is turning on itself because they are behaving as they always behave. Misbehave and sack the coach. The unfortunate thing they dont know? Mick is there, and he is there to stay. You dont walk the line, you can walk out the door. Starting with the most talented one of all.
Murphy? Absolutely zero chance he is going anywhere.
No I dont believe he is going anywhere.
I have heard whispers from people who know his family. About the playing group. The starting with the most talented one of all, is me being a little bit facetious regarding people labelling Chris Yarran the most talented.
I have heard whispers from people who know family of Murph. All is not right down at Carlton. Thing is, the playing group is turning on itself because they are behaving as they always behave. Misbehave and sack the coach. The unfortunate thing they dont know? Mick is there, and he is there to stay. You dont walk the line, you can walk out the door. Starting with the most talented one of all.
Murphy? Absolutely zero chance he is going anywhere.
No I dont believe he is going anywhere.
I have heard whispers from people who know his family. About the playing group. The starting with the most talented one of all, is me being a little bit facetious regarding people labelling Chris Yarran the most talented.
Interesting times for Yarran, could be dropped this week and if he doesn't find himself back in the seniors very quickly, then I expect we may not see him in blue again and I reckon Essendon will be all over him.
Mate if he ends up at the scum playing great football I've had enough, the club can go fork themselves. I'll always have a soft spot but as for my life revolving around us no way no more. There's only so much mismanagement you can take. No doubt Hird and bummer will have him playing A-grade football straight away.
Mate if he ends up at the scum playing great football I've had enough, the club can go fork themselves. I'll always have a soft spot but as for my life revolving around us no way no more. There's only so much mismanagement you can take. No doubt Hird and bummer will have him playing A-grade football straight away.
Agree! That would be a massive c0ck-up and would show our club to be totally incompetent as far as list management is concerned. If it happened it would destroy all confidence, at least in me, that we are capable of ever building a premiership capable list.
I have heard whispers from people who know family of Murph. All is not right down at Carlton. Thing is, the playing group is turning on itself because they are behaving as they always behave. Misbehave and sack the coach. The unfortunate thing they dont know? Mick is there, and he is there to stay. You dont walk the line, you can walk out the door. Starting with the most talented one of all.
Murphy? Absolutely zero chance he is going anywhere.
No I dont believe he is going anywhere.
I have heard whispers from people who know his family. About the playing group. The starting with the most talented one of all, is me being a little bit facetious regarding people labelling Chris Yarran the most talented.
Interesting times for Yarran, could be dropped this week and if he doesn't find himself back in the seniors very quickly, then I expect we may not see him in blue again and I reckon Essendon will be all over him.
Essendon considering Nick Dal Santo .........reckon CY would attract plenty of interest from the WA and SA clubs......be a nice replacement for stiffy Johncock at the Crows...
@EB1
Elwood I reckon Yarran's own best option would be if he went would be the Swans. They would lick him into shape and if they couldn't nobody could.
I'm sure we could put together a deal with them maybe involving Jesse White?
@EB1
Elwood I reckon Yarran's own best option would be if he went would be the Swans. They would lick him into shape and if they couldn't nobody could.
I'm sure we could put together a deal with them maybe involving Jesse White?
Cookie...they may think Lewis Jetta is as good if not better than CY and dont feel the need for CY....agree though their tough brand of footy and high expectation of team values might break or make CY.
Dont see Adam Goodes allowing CY to spectate while he is busting his gut....
We need to do with Yarran (and Jeffy for that matter) what Freo have done with Walters
I agree that Yarran does not appear to be mentally hard enough, or show 100% effort.
But I also agree that Murph is also not mentally hard enough, and can go missing too easily.
Personally, my biggest gripe is with Judd, as good as he is around stoppages, the number of times I see him in no mans land when we are trying to set up a zone, or doesn't man up quickly enough or closely enough in general play or when the opposition come out of defense. IMO Judd's defensive game is atrocious. IMO Judd allows his opponents too many uncontested posessions, they get away from him away from the stoppages.
Now what I don't know is if MM is as harsh on Judd and Murph as he is with Yaran, but IMO they all need to lift their game, and I can't remember who said it, but it should start at the top with the captain, then the leadership group, senior players and so on.
Nah it's different rules for different players, that's what's so annoying but nobody gets it. You can only say it so many times.
You are starting to sound like Jimbo.
You can say it repeatedly, how about backing it up with some facts.
What i am hearing from you is that Yarran has been ruined by Mick Malthouse and that he was an out and and star under Ratten. Your opinion, and so be it.
No, what I'm saying is he was developing nicely under Ratts but has gone backwards under Malthouse. I think he's lost all passion, and more importantly all confidence. It took Ratts a good few years to build up Yazz's confidence and it seems Mick's undone it all in a few months. IMO.
What's wrong with Jimbo anyway? :P
I recall quite clearly Yazz playing for the NBs last year and he was pathetic. His attitude (and this is under Ratts, to respond to what you write above) stunk. He was blasted by team mates and was the very personification of petulance. He was booed by our supporters from the ground... then was rewarded with senior selection the following week! FMD! However, this year when he spent time in the twos, he actually tried hard and got dirty. He is better under MM, but clearly has some attitude problems. Maybe he can only be a one way, prima donna :-\
This is what i was suggesting earlier. Carrots is looking at what he sees as the outcome (Yarran has gone backwards under Mick) and bringing up things that back that up, and ignoring (or forgetting) that the same things occured previously.
I am a huge fan of Yazza and i think he has been pretty much consistently inconsistent year to year.
I agree that Yarran does not appear to be mentally hard enough, or show 100% effort.
But I also agree that Murph is also not mentally hard enough, and can go missing too easily.
Personally, my biggest gripe is with Judd, as good as he is around stoppages, the number of times I see him in no mans land when we are trying to set up a zone, or doesn't man up quickly enough or closely enough in general play or when the opposition come out of defense. IMO Judd's defensive game is atrocious. IMO Judd allows his opponents too many uncontested posessions, they get away from him away from the stoppages.
Now what I don't know is if MM is as harsh on Judd and Murph as he is with Yaran, but IMO they all need to lift their game, and I can't remember who said it, but it should start at the top with the captain, then the leadership group, senior players and so on.
here here Amers. Well said.
@kruddler
Nah it's different rules for different players, that's what's so annoying but nobody gets it. You can only say it so many times.
You are starting to sound like Jimbo.
You can say it repeatedly, how about backing it up with some facts.
What i am hearing from you is that Yarran has been ruined by Mick Malthouse and that he was an out and and star under Ratten. Your opinion, and so be it.
No, what I'm saying is he was developing nicely under Ratts but has gone backwards under Malthouse. I think he's lost all passion, and more importantly all confidence. It took Ratts a good few years to build up Yazz's confidence and it seems Mick's undone it all in a few months. IMO.
What's wrong with Jimbo anyway? :P
I recall quite clearly Yazz playing for the NBs last year and he was pathetic. His attitude (and this is under Ratts, to respond to what you write above) stunk. He was blasted by team mates and was the very personification of petulance. He was booed by our supporters from the ground... then was rewarded with senior selection the following week! FMD! However, this year when he spent time in the twos, he actually tried hard and got dirty. He is better under MM, but clearly has some attitude problems. Maybe he can only be a one way, prima donna :-\
This is what i was suggesting earlier. Carrots is looking at what he sees as the outcome (Yarran has gone backwards under Mick) and bringing up things that back that up, and ignoring (or forgetting) that the same things occured previously.
I am a huge fan of Yazza and i think he has been pretty much consistently inconsistent year to year.
Why was Yarran in the reserves? He wasnt dropped was he? He was returning from injury. Unless I'm wrong this is a terrible example Baggers and krud I would've thought you'd do better than that. Booed from the ground can anyone confirm this first I've heard of it? Regardless, using a comeback game from injury as an example is laughable.
You are not going to change your mind, i know that and you know that.
By for the sake of completeness, i feel the need to put the record straight for others who may have forgotten and simply take your word for it.
Yarran has played many a disinterested game in the 2's and the 1's.
I already pointed out when Mick called him out for being selfish when he got injured. That is our current coach making an observation about Yarran under our previous coach. Doing the same thing he has done this year!
Can't remember Mick calling him selfish. He criticised him for showing signs of injury. Of course Mick in the commentary box was in a great position to tell just how Yazz was feeling. Let's face it, the guy hasn't got the best record when it comes to Chris Yarran
Can't remember Mick calling him selfish. He criticised him for showing signs of injury. Of course Mick in the commentary box was in a great position to tell just how Yazz was feeling. Let's face it, the guy hasn't got the best record when it comes to Chris Yarran
Mick called him selfish.
Essentially he said the way he carried on while injured was not good. It shows a weakness to the opposition. He didn't need to carry on the way he did.
Its the same reason why Mick said what he said recently in regards to Murphy and injuries etc.
All players who take the field are 100% fit. Implying anything other than that is showing weakness. Mick is all about the psychology of battle. Show a strong, united front at all times.
This is his issue with Yarran and his injury. It went against his mantra and in his opinion was selfish for not sucking it up and putting the team first.
Here are some stats on Yarran comparing last year to this year.
Last year he was a backman.
This year he is a forward.
Averages...
Disposals
2012 - 14.7 per game
2013 - 10.3
Goals
2012 - 0.5
2013 - 1.4
Tackles
2012 - 1.7
2013 - 3.8
Contested possesions
2012 - 4.1
2013 - 4.7
...and finally the % of his possessions that are contested
2012 - 28%
2013 - 44%
So although his overall possessions are down a touch from last year, he is kicking more goals (as you'd expect being forward now) but also laying double the amount of tackles he was laying last year.
Overall he is getting more hard ball per game, but overall he is getting a lot more hard ball and less easy ball compared to last year.
So the stats say that he is laying more tackles, getting more hard ball and obviously hitting the scoreboard more.
So tell me how it is exactly he is going backwards again? ???
Didn't you watch the game on the weekend? Stats mean sweet FA, I know what Yarran is capable of and I've seen what he's produced in the past, especially the previous two years. I've provided highlight reels at the start of the thread, go back and take a look if you can't seem to remember how good he was.
Didn't you watch the game on the weekend? Stats mean sweet FA, I know what Yarran is capable of and I've seen what he's produced in the past, especially the previous two years. I've provided highlight reels at the start of the thread, go back and take a look if you can't seem to remember how good he was.
Double the tackles.
More hard ball.
More goals.
You want to watch a highlight reel, go support the ruckman for the eagles.
You want team oriented output...stay tuned.
Like I said. I'll go with my eyesight over your stats. Don't think too many would agree with you.
It's gonna be funny if Yarran wins Carltons B&F in 2014 !!! ;D
It's gonna be funny if Yarran wins Carltons B&F in 2014 !!! ;D
Nothing would make me happier! However it wont be funny if he wins the Essendon B&F in 2014.
It's gonna be funny if Yarran wins Carltons B&F in 2014 !!! ;D
Nothing would make me happier! However it wont be funny if he wins the Essendon B&F in 2014.
You reckon Matty Knights will know how to handle him ?? :P
Yarran has 4 games to change Micks opinion about what he is worth. They could be the most important 4 games of his life. His body is capable of anything. Just getting his mind right is the issue. Can that be fixed ? Wait until seasons end.
Yarran has 4 games to change Micks opinion about what he is worth. They could be the most important 4 games of his life. His body is capable of anything. Just getting his mind right is the issue. Can that be fixed ? Wait until seasons end.
Mants I'd love to think so - he comes good with us and ends up as a superstar of the game! Do miracles still happen?
Yarran has 4 games to change Micks opinion about what he is worth. They could be the most important 4 games of his life. His body is capable of anything. Just getting his mind right is the issue. Can that be fixed ? Wait until seasons end.
Mants...This is how I see it too....4 games to show some intensity and keen interest that he wants to be part of the team going forward and is prepared to follow the coaches
instructions.
If he does that then he will be taken off the trade bait list, if he doesnt I expect him to be shopped around. I dont think MM is silly enough to give him away for peanuts just to prove a point
and I would expect him only to be traded if the deal was heavily biased our way for something we really needed.
Here are some stats on Yarran comparing last year to this year.
Last year he was a backman.
This year he is a forward.
Averages...
Disposals
2012 - 14.7 per game
2013 - 10.3
Goals
2012 - 0.5
2013 - 1.4
Tackles
2012 - 1.7
2013 - 3.8
Contested possesions
2012 - 4.1
2013 - 4.7
...and finally the % of his possessions that are contested
2012 - 28%
2013 - 44%
So although his overall possessions are down a touch from last year, he is kicking more goals (as you'd expect being forward now) but also laying double the amount of tackles he was laying last year.
Overall he is getting more hard ball per game, but overall he is getting a lot more hard ball and less easy ball compared to last year.
So the stats say that he is laying more tackles, getting more hard ball and obviously hitting the scoreboard more.
So tell me how it is exactly he is going backwards again? ???
Compelling stats. I also believe he is better this year than last. But can he take that next most important step - from me, to us?
Yarran has 4 games to change Micks opinion about what he is worth. They could be the most important 4 games of his life. His body is capable of anything. Just getting his mind right is the issue. Can that be fixed ? Wait until seasons end.
Mants...This is how I see it too....4 games to show some intensity and keen interest that he wants to be part of the team going forward and is prepared to follow the coaches
instructions.
If he does that then he will be taken off the trade bait list, if he doesnt I expect him to be shopped around. I dont think MM is silly enough to give him away for peanuts just to prove a point
and I would expect him only to be traded if the deal was heavily biased our way for something we really needed.
I agree with you. Don't throw him away for free, even if he doesn't show his worth. It could come back to bite us big time. (Based on 2013 form) A Rance / Treloar / Cameron / Trengrove (PA) / Boak type would help our group. Not those exact players, but I wouldn't scream at the club if any of these were targets. If he comes to play. If he shows a new attitude. We will be laughing for the next 5 years. His X-factor is simply amazing.
Can't remember Mick calling him selfish. He criticised him for showing signs of injury. Of course Mick in the commentary box was in a great position to tell just how Yazz was feeling. Let's face it, the guy hasn't got the best record when it comes to Chris Yarran
Mick called him selfish.
Essentially he said the way he carried on while injured was not good. It shows a weakness to the opposition. He didn't need to carry on the way he did.
Its the same reason why Mick said what he said recently in regards to Murphy and injuries etc.
All players who take the field are 100% fit. Implying anything other than that is showing weakness. Mick is all about the psychology of battle. Show a strong, united front at all times.
This is his issue with Yarran and his injury. It went against his mantra and in his opinion was selfish for not sucking it up and putting the team first.
Nonetheless, whatever MM puts out in the media is by far and away more likely BS than reality.
Can't remember Mick calling him selfish. He criticised him for showing signs of injury. Of course Mick in the commentary box was in a great position to tell just how Yazz was feeling. Let's face it, the guy hasn't got the best record when it comes to Chris Yarran
Mick called him selfish.
Essentially he said the way he carried on while injured was not good. It shows a weakness to the opposition. He didn't need to carry on the way he did.
Its the same reason why Mick said what he said recently in regards to Murphy and injuries etc.
All players who take the field are 100% fit. Implying anything other than that is showing weakness. Mick is all about the psychology of battle. Show a strong, united front at all times.
This is his issue with Yarran and his injury. It went against his mantra and in his opinion was selfish for not sucking it up and putting the team first.
Nonetheless, whatever MM puts out in the media is by far and away more likely BS than reality.
Nuh. Seems to me that whatever MM puts out into the media is subjected to many filters within his bonce. MM is not a complicated person... first and foremost (which Eddie didn't understand) is that this bloke loves being in the trenches. He is a general of troops. He is a student of battle. Hence, the media is only a part of his strategy... he will be honest and straightforward, and he will be coy or even evasive.
So although his overall possessions are down a touch from last year, he is kicking more goals (as you'd expect being forward now) but also laying double the amount of tackles he was laying last year.
High tackle count could just be the player getting beaten to the ball more. We also need to understand what tackle counts mean for forwards and defenders. For example, Walker averages fewer tackles as a defender than he did as a forward as well.
Overall he is getting more hard ball per game, but overall he is getting a lot more hard ball and less easy ball compared to last year.
I don't see that as an indication of anything though, that's what you'd expect to happen as you have a closer checking opponent as a forward.
It would be interesting to know what his opponents are doing but I don't think those stats exist.
So the stats say that he is laying more tackles, getting more hard ball and obviously hitting the scoreboard more.
So tell me how it is exactly he is going backwards again? ???[/quote]
Why is there so much angst about his performances?
Yarran has 4 games to change Micks opinion about what he is worth. They could be the most important 4 games of his life. His body is capable of anything. Just getting his mind right is the issue. Can that be fixed ? Wait until seasons end.
Mants...This is how I see it too....4 games to show some intensity and keen interest that he wants to be part of the team going forward and is prepared to follow the coaches
instructions.
If he does that then he will be taken off the trade bait list, if he doesnt I expect him to be shopped around. I dont think MM is silly enough to give him away for peanuts just to prove a point
and I would expect him only to be traded if the deal was heavily biased our way for something we really needed.
Are you guys serious? But krud and Baggers said he's better this season! ;D Big wraps on Yazz we'll get the #1 pick for sure!
@ Carrots and (the poster formerly known as) LLT
I never said Yarran was better, i said he hasn't gone backwards. His stats show he is better.
I said previously that i think he is essentially the same player he was last year. Brilliant at his best, sooky and disinterested at his worst and overall consistently inconsistent.
Carrots is trying to say he was a star more often than not last year. I'm saying there is negligable difference one way or the others.
@ Carrots and (the poster formerly known as) LLT
I never said Yarran was better, i said he hasn't gone backwards. His stats show he is better.
I said previously that i think he is essentially the same player he was last year. Brilliant at his best, sooky and disinterested at his worst and overall consistently inconsistent.
Carrots is trying to say he was a star more often than not last year. I'm saying there is negligable difference one way or the others.
If he is about the same, is he more effective as a forward or a defender? Or are we saying he is as effective as a forward as he is a defender?
@ Carrots and (the poster formerly known as) LLT
I never said Yarran was better, i said he hasn't gone backwards. His stats show he is better.
I said previously that i think he is essentially the same player he was last year. Brilliant at his best, sooky and disinterested at his worst and overall consistently inconsistent.
Carrots is trying to say he was a star more often than not last year. I'm saying there is negligable difference one way or the others.
If he is about the same, is he more effective as a forward or a defender? Or are we saying he is as effective as a forward as he is a defender?
Absolutely more effective as a defender
@ Carrots and (the poster formerly known as) LLT
I never said Yarran was better, i said he hasn't gone backwards. His stats show he is better.
I said previously that i think he is essentially the same player he was last year. Brilliant at his best, sooky and disinterested at his worst and overall consistently inconsistent.
Carrots is trying to say he was a star more often than not last year. I'm saying there is negligable difference one way or the others.
If he is about the same, is he more effective as a forward or a defender? Or are we saying he is as effective as a forward as he is a defender?
I think you need to package up Andrew Walker to make that decision.
Walker back and Yarran forward
or
Yarran back and Walker forward
What works better? Don't know.
I think Walker is a better defender as he can play on tallish players as well.
Yarran is probably better streaming through the middle of the ground, and probably better at kicking the miracle goal.
Walker is better as a leadup forward, but not as useful in front of goal. Would also struggle given our forward setup now.
I think this years version of Walker back and Yarran forward works better than last years version of Walker forward and Yarran back..
Ideally, you'd want Yarran to work on his tank and consistency and get more time in the middle.
Walker's defensive side has been average this year. He was exposed as the weak link vs Freo. As for him not being as useful in front of goal, how many did he kick in his injury free year in 2011? 52 from memory, he was our leading goalkicker I think. Yarran was copping the defensive forward in every game as a defender.
Walker's defensive side has been average this year. He was exposed as the weak link vs Freo. As for him not being as useful in front of goal, how many did he kick in his injury free year in 2011? 52 from memory, he was our leading goalkicker I think. Yarran was copping the defensive forward in every game as a defender.
Read what i write carrots.
Yarran is probably better streaming through the middle of the ground, and probably better at kicking the miracle goal.
Walker is better as a leadup forward, but not as useful in front of goal. Would also struggle given our forward setup now.
Yarran is more freakish in front of goal and more capable of pulling one out of nothing.
Walker is more reliable as a leadup forward. Read consistent.
You've formed an opinion and everything you say from now you arrange to fit in line with your original opinion. ie everything was better under ratten.
Trying to convince you of otherwise is pointless at present.
Personally, i think the defensive forwards worked a treat more often than not on Yarran last year. That hasn't worked on Walker this year (or it hasn't been tried). He couldn't break a decent tag.
Read what i write carrots.
Yarran is probably better streaming through the middle of the ground, and probably better at kicking the miracle goal.
Walker is better as a leadup forward, but not as useful in front of goal. Would also struggle given our forward setup now.
If you change the bold around that's the way I read it. Walker is definitely more useful in front of goal, and Yarran's speed is definitely more useful coming out of defence.
Yarran a wingman. Have him move through the middle of the ground no doubt. Walker has been making plenty of mistakes recently in defence. He has his good moments and his bad moments. While I like Walker forward, he goes for a flyer way too often and could better use his speed on the lead. I think a fit Waite will put pressure on both these two to lock in a role. While Waite will always play limited games due to injury and suspensions, he is a better defender and forward to both of these guys. Garlett is probably a better forward to both Yarran and Walker too. The guess is what Mick thinks will be the roles for Yarran, Walker, Garlett and Waite.
We speculate about what we see, but one thing for certain, no other side has 4 guys as potent as these 4, when they are all hot. Mick needs to get what he can from these 4, if they are not part of the so called 10 players to be let go. Forget to add Betts to that mix. Sorry. Maybe we need to start rotating them through the middle of the ground more often. This way they have to work. Can't go missing there.
We speculate about what we see, but one thing for certain, no other side has 4 guys as potent as these 4, when they are all hot.
Agree Mantis, we don't have a bad list.
Is Yarran contracted? If so for how long?
Is Yarran contracted? If so for how long?
Until the end of next year.
Interesting that on Fox Footy last night Kingy and Alister Lynch were talking about Yarran bordering on being an AA half back two years ago and now just being not much chop at all. Are we going to dismiss their comments as well? A HUGE fall from grace. Add Betts bordering on AA last year the same.
To all those saying he hasn't gone backwards, would you consider him any possibility whatsoever of being AA this year?
I don't recall Yarran being close to All Australian ever.
Betts should have been All Australian last year but has had injuries/suspension this year, oh I forgot Malthouse has no injuries.
I don't recall Yarran being close to All Australian ever.
You have a habit of forgetting things that contradict your opinion so I'm not surprised, even if you did remember his stellar form there's no way you'd admit to it. Still, I'm happy to go with Kingy, Lynch and my own opinion. They seem to remember clear as day and so do I.
I respect Kingy and Lynchy's opinions but I'm sure they don't watch every game of football played so it only makes sense that I would have seen more of Yarran they did. Come to think of it weren't you overseas a couple of years ago?
Looking at the best and fairest for 2011 he finished 10th so that sits about right with my memory of how he played, middle of the road and that was his best year.
I respect Kingy and Lynchy's opinions but I'm sure they don't watch every game of football played so it only makes sense that I would have seen more of Yarran they did. Come to think of it weren't you overseas a couple of years ago?
Looking at the best and fairest for 2011 he finished 10th so that sits about right with my memory of how he played, middle of the road and that was his best year.
No doubt softening memories have them confusing Betts with Yarran, Yarran has never been consistent and Betts should have been AA!
Come to think of it weren't you overseas a couple of years ago?
2006-2008 but nice try! :P
Yarran has never been consistent and Betts should have been AA!
Scored over 80 supercoach points 16/23 times in 2011 with two scores of 79 not included. So he had four average games in which he still beat his opponent (remember he was playing defence). I'd check out my own memory before criticising others'.
Average stats for his career if you click on averages. Some stellar games in 2011 and great consistency throughout whilst beating his opponent.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-carlton-blues--christopher-yarran?year=2011&fantasy=y
Average stats for his career if you click on averages. Some stellar games in 2011 and great consistency throughout whilst beating his opponent.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-carlton-blues--christopher-yarran?year=2011&fantasy=y
...and 1 brownlow vote.
Hardly the impact of an 'almost AA' player whose brilliance is hard to miss.
I think Kingy and Lynchy are telling porkies. My recollection is the same as MBBs....and like you, he is a favourite of mine who i take a keen interest in.
So you're using umpire's opinions as a pointer to why Kingy is wrong. I rest my case.
So you're using umpire's opinions as a pointer to why Kingy is wrong. I rest my case.
I can't use opinions to show you.
I can't use stats to show you.
I can't use umpires votes to show you.
Doesn't leave a whole lot left.
I'm happy to accept your opinion, you don't agree fine but I think you have a short memory. The stats work in Yarran's favour in terms of consistency but I'm not big on them anyway. I do however know what I saw in 2011 and it was the sign of something very special.
I've been a big fan of Yarran since I saw him play his first game, he makes the hard things look easy like few players can, when I first saw him I thought he was something very special who would play 200 games for the CFC and thrill us supporters for a decade.
I don't know the reason why but he's definitely gone backwards this year.
At 22 with 80 odd games under his belt he should be firing on all cylinders, it's very disappointing.
At Yarrans age he still has a chance to get his mind straight and become one of the classiest footy players going around. If he was 28+ you would think he was completely cooked. If only someone could find his switch. I for one will bag him one day and send him up on his better days. Just love to dream he will switch on for us soon and become elite of all elites.
to understand Yarran, you have to go back a little. Rattan was a nurturing coach who offered encouragement with plenty of positive reinforcement, I saw that many times in the rooms and on the boundary. When someone like MM comes in, the change in coaching styles can be quite confronting (for some). some will adapt, some will not, some may need time. The reason why the pies flourished, is the whole list knew no better. I will never forget when MM first arrived, he mentioned he was surprised how introverted they were, maybe that word was a polite summation of where some are at now.
When Ratts was troubled with critics saying that he was too close or comfortable with the players. Bringing MM in was always going to fracture some. My frustration is I don't think many at the club thought this would happen
to understand Yarran, you have to go back a little. Rattan was a nurturing coach who offered encouragement with plenty of positive reinforcement, I saw that many times in the rooms and on the boundary. When someone like MM comes in, the change in coaching styles can be quite confronting (for some). some will adapt, some will not, some may need time. The reason why the pies flourished, is the whole list knew no better. I will never forget when MM first arrived, he mentioned he was surprised how introverted they were, maybe that word was a polite summation of where some are at now.
When Ratts was troubled with critics saying that he was too close or comfortable with the players. Bringing MM in was always going to fracture some. My frustration is I don't think many at the club thought this would happen
Nicely said !!
to understand Yarran, you have to go back a little. Rattan was a nurturing coach who offered encouragement with plenty of positive reinforcement, I saw that many times in the rooms and on the boundary. When someone like MM comes in, the change in coaching styles can be quite confronting (for some). some will adapt, some will not, some may need time. The reason why the pies flourished, is the whole list knew no better. I will never forget when MM first arrived, he mentioned he was surprised how introverted they were, maybe that word was a polite summation of where some are at now.
When Ratts was troubled with critics saying that he was too close or comfortable with the players. Bringing MM in was always going to fracture some. My frustration is I don't think many at the club thought this would happen
Nicely said !!
Plenty of the CFC blokes are introverted, esp. Murphy - perhaps it just takes time?
I didnt think Yarran was AA standard but I did think he had great games (and not so great games) in 2011. For a third year player, I thought he showed enough to suggest he would become a very, veyr good player for us.
to understand Yarran, you have to go back a little. Rattan was a nurturing coach who offered encouragement with plenty of positive reinforcement, I saw that many times in the rooms and on the boundary. When someone like MM comes in, the change in coaching styles can be quite confronting (for some). some will adapt, some will not, some may need time. The reason why the pies flourished, is the whole list knew no better. I will never forget when MM first arrived, he mentioned he was surprised how introverted they were, maybe that word was a polite summation of where some are at now.
When Ratts was troubled with critics saying that he was too close or comfortable with the players. Bringing MM in was always going to fracture some. My frustration is I don't think many at the club thought this would happen
Great post! The same way Pagan came into the club with his one size fits all approach and if you can't hack it get out. It's almost as if Mick has got the CBFs, he's taking the lazy approach. Ratts was slowly starting to get the best out of Yazz (and it took some time). MM has managed to turn that to sht in the space of about 8 rounds. Kudos to him!
Yarran is playing to the same standard as he did last year before Malthouse came to the club.
Yarran is playing to the same standard as he did last year before Malthouse came to the club.
Another one liner (and negative karma)! You've convinced me!
You still struggle to get your head around it. He went backwards last year, this year he's about the same.
blah blah blah
On another note altogether, Mark Mclueless said that only Garlett would be left at the club next year of the Amigos. Fk me that guy is the biggest sht talker to get a gig in footy changes his mind every weekend. Carlton legend but please Sellers, shut your mouth, one can only contradict themselves so many times before they come across as a dipsht.
I remember a purple patch last year or the year before that people were talking AA, but he never kept it up and dropped off.
He has definitely gone backwards this year but so has many others. When I mean backwards I mean has lost flare, run decision making. Now that could be due to instructions by the coach as we know MM has very strict conditions when it comes to playing his gameplan. I sense MM doesn't give them a lot latitude and hence there is a lot of propping and making what looks like poor decisions.
Malthouse wouldn't be telling him to shirt contests and give up and not chase. Yarran's issues are his own issues. Friends of mine don't believe me when I say Yarran is probably the quickest at the club because they've probably never seen him sprint.
Yarran is playing to the same standard as he did last year before Malthouse came to the club.
Its really hard to argue with this. I seem to recall about two matches last season that he was really good, and aside from that he made up the numbers last season.
The players that Ratten tried so hard to nurture are the entire reaason that he was sacked from the club.
On another note, PI2C, I seem to recall you having a go at Ratten and his treatment of Russell last season, and I agreed he should have gotten more time, but it just goes to show that all coaches can do this. I think you can nurture youngsters until they are about mid 20's, and if they havent worked out that they need to start relying less on the nurturing and start doing it themselves, that they will quickly be abandoned, as the coach can only spend so much time with people who demand it and it should be the youngsters, as they need more guidance.
Yarran first 3 games in 2012 were brilliant and up on output from 2011. He was then injured (turf toe wasn't it) and struggled to play under injury from rounds 4-12 until he had a week off. His remaining games for the season were all up to his 2011 standard other than the final game in round 23. Take out the games between rounds 4-12 and he was up on output compared to 2011. Plus you never really a fan from the start Thry you were in the Rich camp were you not? I could be wrong but you've always had doubts about him.
Stats are not the be all and end all but it shows his output was right up there with 2011 when fit.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-carlton-blues--christopher-yarran?year=2012
rd 4 this year played probably his best game for the club against the Eagles.
rd 5 tight hammy against the dees.
rd 6 tears it against the saints.
struggled since.
Sorry I forgot again injuries don't count this year.
struggled since he was made sub and subsequently dropped.
Edited for accuracy. And if you don't believe that that was in fact the issue you are delusional.
struggled since he was made sub and subsequently dropped.
Edited for accuracy. And if you don't believe that that was in fact the issue you are delusional.
I do believe it was an issue for Yarran but where we differ is you seem to accept his sulking like he had good reason to.
Nah he should not have sulked but that wasn't played out in public was it? Malthouse criticised him in public though and pretty much pointed the finger at Yarran using him as a scapegoat for our loss to the scum. Yarran hasn't been the same since.
Malthouse is a hypocrite if he had any balls he would've dropped him last week after his awful efforts vs Freo but no Yazz kept his spot. To me that shows weakness from MM, almost an admittance that he went too far and if he dropped him again he was worried he'd never get him back. That's the way i see it anyway. How Yarran kept his spot for the Bulldogs game is beyond me.
Yarran first 3 games in 2012 were brilliant and up on output from 2011. He was then injured (turf toe wasn't it) and struggled to play under injury from rounds 4-12 until he had a week off. His remaining games for the season were all up to his 2011 standard other than the final game in round 23. Take out the games between rounds 4-12 and he was up on output compared to 2011. Plus you never really a fan from the start Thry you were in the Rich camp were you not? I could be wrong but you've always had doubts about him.
Stats are not the be all and end all but it shows his output was right up there with 2011 when fit.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-carlton-blues--christopher-yarran?year=2012
Its not that I wasnt a fan, I saw Yarran as suplus to our needs at the team. Now, that doesnt make me against Yarran. Far from it. I am happy he is here, but even back then he was doing well for a 3rd year player, and he is still doing well for a 3rd year player. The trouble is, he is no longer a 3rd year player and should have improved further.
The Daniel Rich midfielder was a required player at the time because 1. He was a bonafide midfield clearance winner, and 2. His kicking ability on that left peg was beyond anything else we had at the club at the time. Do you remember us moaning about our lack of kicking skill? Yarran does help this, however Rich may have assisted in preventing Murphy, Carrazzo and Judd from copping the brunt of the battering over the last 2 years, because no one else has really put their hand up to get their hands dirty.
The main reason I was a Rich fan, was that he represented a high calibre performer right from the word go. Something we did not have enough of.
The one I really wanted was Hurley. The Key position player we were all crying out for got taken one pick before ours and even you have recently stated that we should have taken Ziebell. That is no betrayel of Yarran, it simply looks at what our club really needs right now. Some of us saw it at the time of the drafting that we lacked class in our midfield that is able to win a hard ball as well as provide us a bit of polish.
Now, I will back Yarran to improve. He certainly does have the tools to improve, and I also back him to not leave the club, but we dont help Yarran by pandering to his 3rd year statistics and stating he is a really good performer for us.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-carlton-blues--christopher-yarran?year=2011
2011, round 19. That is the level that he should be reaching more frequently, and that is the level that will even bring him to a level playing field with Daniel Rich.
Meanwhile, just on Rich:
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-brisbane-lions--daniel-rich?year=2012
You have a look over his career, and his bad games are still reasonable, but is of the same frequency of Yarran's good games. His good games are not behind Yarran's good games in terms of output in fact it could be argued that they are as good if not better, yet he hits that mark more frequently.
This doesnt make me feel better, or sleep well at night. That perhaps our recruiters have once again picked the wrong type of player for us dead set irritates me, as I have had that knock on our recruiters. Each draft selection however, is just one more thing in the rich tapestry of football that can make or break fortunes. I.e. We select Rich over Yarran, we win that final against Brisbane and push on to the second round of finals rather than losing in that final quarter. Judd doesnt do the pressure point. Ratten perhaps is under less pressure last season, or our midfield doesnt get smashed like it was. Grigg plays Yarran's role rather than going to the Tigers... You just never know how it all pans out differently.
@Thry
You've highlighted the issue we have Thry - we are criying out for tough clearance players. Yarran, and he's not alone here (Eddie, Garlett, Lucas and others) are not that type and I don't think ever will be. Without even being negative about them, we may have to let one or two of those go to get what we really need most.
He played a good game tonight, wouldnt you say PI2C?
He also played forward.
Amazing what a bit of effort does, isnt it?
There goes whatever argument you hoped to run to support your anti-MM vendetta.
Yarran was in our better players tonight and chased, tackled like he should every week, should he be traded?...not if he continues to play like that but you never know what Yarran will rock up next week vs Port.
There goes whatever argument you hoped to run to support your anti-MM vendetta.
That is a pathetic comment.
Yarran was in our better players tonight and chased, tackled like he should every week, should he be traded?...not if he continues to play like that but you never know what Yarran will rock up next week vs Port.
I hope the guy who gave him the elbow to the face gets a few weeks. Where was his free kick for a high hit ? They scored a goal the other way and that is probably a moment that lost us the game.
There goes whatever argument you hoped to run to support your anti-MM vendetta.
That is a pathetic comment.
;) No comment on the other stuff? :P
Thought he had a dip tonight.
However a player of his class with the chances he had should have kicked 4.1. The game could have been his tonight.
Yarran was in our better players tonight and chased, tackled like he should every week, should he be traded?...not if he continues to play like that but you never know what Yarran will rock up next week vs Port.
I hope the guy who gave him the elbow to the face gets a few weeks. Where was his free kick for a high hit ? They scored a goal the other way and that is probably a moment that lost us the game.
Heath Hocking...had a brain fade and whacked Yarran in traffic...should get 2-3 weeks...but its Essendon.....they seem to win out at everything so expect a light penalty only...
Yarran was in our better players tonight and chased, tackled like he should every week, should he be traded?...not if he continues to play like that but you never know what Yarran will rock up next week vs Port.
I don't doubt his skill, but he switches on when he feels like it.
Tackling and chasing should be a given every week.
I'l get flamed for saying this, but i was pissed off we drafted him, having seen his laconic play at Swans
4 years down the track, nothing has changed my opinion of him.
Yarran was in our better players tonight and chased, tackled like he should every week, should he be traded?...not if he continues to play like that but you never know what Yarran will rock up next week vs Port.
I don't doubt his skill, but he switches on when he feels like it.
Tackling and chasing should be a given every week.
I'l get flamed for saying this, but i was pissed off we drafted him, having seen his laconic play at Swans
4 years down the track, nothing has changed my opinion of him.
Swed..I always refer to local knowledge and its a constant problem with CY...ooozes talent but its when he feels like switching on.....
Just have to hope he is on when its GF time....if we ever get there :(
Yarran was in our better players tonight and chased, tackled like he should every week, should he be traded?...not if he continues to play like that but you never know what Yarran will rock up next week vs Port.
I don't doubt his skill, but he switches on when he feels like it.
Tackling and chasing should be a given every week.
I'l get flamed for saying this, but i was pissed off we drafted him, having seen his laconic play at Swans
4 years down the track, nothing has changed my opinion of him.
Swed..I always refer to local knowledge and its a constant problem with CY...ooozes talent but its when he feels like switching on.....
Just have to hope he is on when its GF time....if we ever get there :(
Hi mate,
I don't know his contract status, but if he wanted a return to WA, what do you think he is worth?
Some would say a first rounder, but i don't think the Weagles or Freo would cough that up.
Yarran was in our better players tonight and chased, tackled like he should every week, should he be traded?...not if he continues to play like that but you never know what Yarran will rock up next week vs Port.
I don't doubt his skill, but he switches on when he feels like it.
Tackling and chasing should be a given every week.
I'l get flamed for saying this, but i was pissed off we drafted him, having seen his laconic play at Swans
4 years down the track, nothing has changed my opinion of him.
Swed..I always refer to local knowledge and its a constant problem with CY...ooozes talent but its when he feels like switching on.....
Just have to hope he is on when its GF time....if we ever get there :(
Hi mate,
I don't know his contract status, but if he wanted a return to WA, what do you think he is worth?
Some would say a first rounder, but i don't think the Weagles or Freo would cough that up.
Agree....WC....pick 15-20 like they paid for Wellingham.... or a Nick Suban with a steak knife like Alex Silvangi....Freo probably dont need him having Walters.
Yup Walters plus Ballantyne
I don't think even Lyon could transform Yarran, I think he will always be a cameo player
As for WC offering a Wellingham value pick i would grab it and run like Usain
;D
There were plenty worse than Yarran tonight.
Thought Yarran was terrific tonight.
Best game I've seen from him this year... apart from the screwing points.
No doubt there was
What will he bring next week?
Played well last night but his set shots for a player of his talents is not good enough.
He was fantastic last night but could still do so much better. Has lost all confidence and what he produced was just pure talent shining through. To see him pass of balls from kickable positions inside 50m shows just where his self belief is at.
He was fantastic last night but could still do so much better. Has lost all confidence and what he produced was just pure talent shining through. To see him pass of balls from kickable positions inside 50m shows just where his self belief is at.
Spot on PI2C - clearly has the yips in front of goal, confidence in his kicking is shot. Can no longer be tagged an 'elite kick' as he once was.
He was fantastic last night but could still do so much better. Has lost all confidence and what he produced was just pure talent shining through. To see him pass of balls from kickable positions inside 50m shows just where his self belief is at.
Do you think he will ever play consistently?
To me he will be one of those players that will tear it up one week and go missing the next.
He was fantastic last night but could still do so much better. Has lost all confidence and what he produced was just pure talent shining through. To see him pass of balls from kickable positions inside 50m shows just where his self belief is at.
Do you think he will ever play consistently?
To me he will be one of those players that will tear it up one week and go missing the next.
He's only 22, if he was still flashing in and out of games at 26 you'd be concerned. Easily fixed play him down back, he'll beat his man and any offensive run is a bonus.
He was fantastic last night but could still do so much better. Has lost all confidence and what he produced was just pure talent shining through. To see him pass of balls from kickable positions inside 50m shows just where his self belief is at.
Do you think he will ever play consistently?
To me he will be one of those players that will tear it up one week and go missing the next.
He's only 22, if he was still flashing in and out of games at 26 you'd be concerned. Easily fixed play him down back, he'll beat his man and any offensive run is a bonus.
I'd be tempted to play him at Half back. His run was excellent from there and set up attacks. At the moment, he is stagnating forward.
I didn't think his game was as good as many on here are claiming.
Maybe cause I focus on the amount of times he stops a second before possible contact and that sh1ts me so much that I don't notice what he does when he has the ball.
He stopped instead on running straight at the ball in the contest when hocking elbowed him. Happened just before the incident.
If we are serious about becoming a real team either he shows more courage or IMO he's trade bait.
His skills are not good enough to be that soft and get away with it.
He was fantastic last night but could still do so much better. Has lost all confidence and what he produced was just pure talent shining through. To see him pass of balls from kickable positions inside 50m shows just where his self belief is at.
Do you think he will ever play consistently?
To me he will be one of those players that will tear it up one week and go missing the next.
This exposes the real lack of leadership we have at the club. The sort of blokes who would demand he play to his ability every week and get in his face.
Yarran touted as being a trade target by Eagles in today's West Australian....What would we get, would we want.....?
Yarran touted as being a trade target by Eagles in today's West Australian....What would we get, would we want.....?
Andrew Gaff I would ask for.......more likely get offered Mitch Brown and a steaknife pick.
Maybe they might offer their first pick if they were really keen and want a 2nd rnd back.
I dont see West Coast going through unless Yarran really wants out himself......
Yarran touted as being a trade target by Eagles in today's West Australian....What would we get, would we want.....?
Andrew Gaff I would ask for.......more likely get offered Mitch Brown and a steaknife pick.
Maybe they might offer their first pick if they were really keen and want a 2nd rnd back.
I dont see that any West Coast going through unless Yarran really wants out himself......
Also something to consider is if there is a change in coach and if he really wants Yazz.
I've formed the view, after watching his last couple of games, that Yarran is not looking for a move. OK if an approach were made he could change his mind, but he looks settled with us IMO.
He looks a bit unsure and tentative about what to do on occasions atm (obviously playing to instruction) and sure his kicking for goal is definitely off, but he has improved overall in the last 2 games.
I'm wondering if playing 3 amigos at the same time is a good idea too? If we do then Yarran has to play HBF or wing.
I think though that more likely one of the amigos will be gone in order to move toward getting the type of players we desperately need. One of the amigos will be sacrificed IMO - Eddie or Yarran. Was previously thinking Yarran, but now leaning more towards Eddie.
Yarran did seem to be around the contest a little more last night cookie which does make you wonder, no Garlett = more space for Yazz to work with? Also, could it be that the three amigos' collectively poor form is actually down to there being one too many up forward? Obviously the three have played far better in previous years with Yazz down back.
Just quietly Yarran and Jeff both played their best footy minus eddie betts. I agree with cookie actually. Dont think yarran is leaving.
Yarran did seem to be around the contest a little more last night cookie which does make you wonder, no Garlett = more space for Yazz to work with? Also, could it be that the three amigos' collectively poor form is actually down to there being one too many up forward? Obviously the three have played far better in previous years with Yazz down back.
Did we make a selection blue though? Jeffy played in the reserves, he could have played last night and moved Yazz to a HBF to cover for Walkers absence. Perhaps Yazz problem at HB is his lack of D. Just saying.
Yarran touted as being a trade target by Eagles in today's West Australian....What would we get, would we want.....?
Andrew Gaff I would ask for.......more likely get offered Mitch Brown and a steaknife pick.
Maybe they might offer their first pick if they were really keen and want a 2nd rnd back.
I dont see West Coast going through unless Yarran really wants out himself......
I'd take Gaff, or Shuey, hopefully unlikely to move, although he and helmet head are old buddies are they not....?
@ADS
Who's Helmet Head? Nat Knitashoei??
I didn't think his game was as good as many on here are claiming.
Maybe cause I focus on the amount of times he stops a second before possible contact and that sh1ts me so much that I don't notice what he does when he has the ball.
He stopped instead on running straight at the ball in the contest when hocking elbowed him. Happened just before the incident.
If we are serious about becoming a real team either he shows more courage or IMO he's trade bait.
His skills are not good enough to be that soft and get away with it.
Spot on
Yarran did seem to be around the contest a little more last night cookie which does make you wonder, no Garlett = more space for Yazz to work with? Also, could it be that the three amigos' collectively poor form is actually down to there being one too many up forward? Obviously the three have played far better in previous years with Yazz down back.
Did we make a selection blue though? Jeffy played in the reserves, he could have played last night and moved Yazz to a HBF to cover for Walkers absence. Perhaps Yazz problem at HB is his lack of D. Just saying.
I remember the issue down back with Yarran was that at times he was tagged and didn't win huge numbers. He nearly always beat his man though. He did average over 80 supercoach points 17 out of 22 times in 2011 with some very very good games of football. That's why I say, play him down back, he will beat his opponent, be more accountable and any run we get out of defence is a bonus.
Yarran took another step, even biggere this time, on sat nigth IMO. Looked really good and intent which is what we want to see. And we want to see it time and time again! I thionk he is better run ning toward goal - call it what you like, eg. midfielder, winger, HBF or high HFF which is the role he could play for us by getting up[ the ground and around the back of the packs the pushing through and down the ground.
Yarran did seem to be around the contest a little more last night cookie which does make you wonder, no Garlett = more space for Yazz to work with? Also, could it be that the three amigos' collectively poor form is actually down to there being one too many up forward? Obviously the three have played far better in previous years with Yazz down back.
Did we make a selection blue though? Jeffy played in the reserves, he could have played last night and moved Yazz to a HBF to cover for Walkers absence. Perhaps Yazz problem at HB is his lack of D. Just saying.
I remember the issue down back with Yarran was that at times he was tagged and didn't win huge numbers. He nearly always beat his man though. He did average over 80 supercoach points 17 out of 22 times in 2011 with some very very good games of football. That's why I say, play him down back, he will beat his opponent, be more accountable and any run we get out of defence is a bonus.
Amen, if we trade him (esp. if Betts is off) we have rocks in our heads......
If Betts leaves as expected it would be No to trading Yarran unless we got way over his market value....and I would be recruiting Dayle Garlett to take Betts spot...
If Betts leaves as expected it would be No to trading Yarran unless we got way over his market value....and I would be recruiting Dayle Garlett to take Betts spot...
What pick would you be willing to use to pick up D. Garlett EB?
If Betts leaves as expected it would be No to trading Yarran unless we got way over his market value....and I would be recruiting Dayle Garlett to take Betts spot...
What pick would you be willing to use to pick up D. Garlett EB?
Amers....Rnd5 in the ND or first rookie pick but doubt he would still be there.....
Think I read Port are very keen and arranged an interview with Garlett but he was a no show and they have withdrawn their interest.
His behaviour is still a concern based on that and might make me cool on him a little......
His behaviour is still a concern based on that and might make me cool on him a little......
MM has a good record with ratbags.
Amers....Rnd5 in the ND or first rookie pick but doubt he would still be there.....
Ok, yeah I could live with that !!
Doesn't read like someone who wants to leave or has been told he's on the table year end, but then who knows if it's his direct words or PR spin.
“It was probably the best win I’ve been involved with at this footy club,” Yarran said. “To be 39 points down with a few minutes to go in the third quarter and to somehow manage to win that game was an incredible effort, and I couldn’t be more proud of the blokes who ran out on that day.
“Why did it turn around? I think the boys just knew what was at stake. Obviously if we lost that game we weren’t going to make finals and we responded pretty well to Mick’s half-time spray.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2013-09-05/yazz-not-keeping-mum-on-first-final
@Goat
Doesn't sound like MM has lost the players to me!
@Goat
Doesn't sound like MM has lost the players to me!
Neither do I, just think he's confused the hell out them ;D
@Goat
Doesn't sound like MM has lost the players to me!
Neither do I, just think he's confused the hell out them ;D
Same thing isn't it? You either have them working efficiently for you or you don't.
@Goat
Doesn't sound like MM has lost the players to me!
Neither do I, just think he's confused the hell out them ;D
Seems like they found their way "back into the room" in the second half last week though?
@Goat
Doesn't sound like MM has lost the players to me!
Neither do I, just think he's confused the hell out them ;D
Same thing isn't it? You either have them working efficiently for you or you don't.
Not really, just think the "process" is causing confusion and hasn't kicked in doesn't mean they have lost faith.
Timely bump. Biggest game of Chris' career coming up.
@Goat
Doesn't sound like MM has lost the players to me!
Neither do I, just think he's confused the hell out them ;D
Same thing isn't it? You either have them working efficiently for you or you don't.
Not really, just think the "process" is causing confusion and hasn't kicked in doesn't mean they have lost faith.
But the way they've played in some games suggests they did lose faith in the process at times. When the process has changed to a more attacking 'process' they seem to believe again.
Yarran looms as a potential match winner, don't see any of the Tiger's runners being able to curtail him - if he turns up!
Just play him on a wing FFS, let him run loose and unaccountable he will hurt them more than his opponent hurts us guaranteed.
Just play him on a wing FFS, let him run loose and unaccountable he will hurt them more than his opponent hurts us guaranteed.
In my opinion he plays his best football off the HBF by some margin, on the wing he is way too lazy going the other way. Opposition clubs just run him into the ground and when he gives up chasing they go forward via his opponent.
Roving at the feet of the KPDs he clears the ball and links up with run as good as any player in the league, and he can cover enough ground to still get himself in scoring range two or three times a game.
Just play him on a wing FFS, let him run loose and unaccountable he will hurt them more than his opponent hurts us guaranteed.
I think once our midfield shows it can be more accountable as a whole, and our defence is a little more stable that you are definitely correct.
Just play him on a wing FFS, let him run loose and unaccountable he will hurt them more than his opponent hurts us guaranteed.
I think once our midfield shows it can be more accountable as a whole, and our defence is a little more stable that you are definitely correct.
So that is it then, if 2/3s of the team get their crap sorted out Yarran is a star!
@Goat
Doesn't sound like MM has lost the players to me!
Neither do I, just think he's confused the hell out them ;D
Same thing isn't it? You either have them working efficiently for you or you don't.
Not really, just think the "process" is causing confusion and hasn't kicked in doesn't mean they have lost faith.
But the way they've played in some games suggests they did lose faith in the process at times. When the process has changed to a more attacking 'process' they seem to believe again.
Thats probably due to not getting the reward for the effort rather than anything else. Its hard to maintain the faith when you keep getting close but failing to get across the line. A few wins seems to pick everyone back up again quick enough though.
@Goat
Doesn't sound like MM has lost the players to me!
Neither do I, just think he's confused the hell out them ;D
Same thing isn't it? You either have them working efficiently for you or you don't.
Not really, just think the "process" is causing confusion and hasn't kicked in doesn't mean they have lost faith.
But the way they've played in some games suggests they did lose faith in the process at times. When the process has changed to a more attacking 'process' they seem to believe again.
lol, the "process" is more of a leap of faith I think. Wonder what "prosess" Roos could have done with him ;)
The process is in which Mick was underprepared for this year but starts laying rehearsal groundwork in getting another 3 years after this 3 ;-)