I have missed the Sheik's Stosur spray this time round but the Aussies seem to be doing OK.
I'm not a great tennis watcher but I don't mind a close game ... or a one-sided game when one of the young Aussies is doing well and it was great to see Ash Barty win again after her brief flirtation with cricket. She seems to have settled down to life as a tennis professional.
One thing that struck me about Bernard Tomic's game tonight was that his opponent, Victor Estrella Burgos, had run one kilometre more than Bernard before they got to the fourth set tiebreaker. That's an incredible difference for a game played on a small court. Tomic seems to be a master at conserving energy.
DJC I thought Bernie was very composed and very smart the way he played. I hope the bloke has turned the corner from an attitude point of view.
As for that flog Kyrios, what an embarrassment he was last night. Did himself and his family a great disservice. He has two choices:
1. Get your crap and feck off and go lay on a beach somewhere and give professional sport away or
2. Give the team around you the ass (including that idiot brother of yours) and get a professional coach (a hard ass) and fitness team around you.
The guy has all the tools to be no. 1 but unfortunately, he is a tool!!
I have missed the Sheik's Stosur spray this time round but the Aussies seem to be doing OK.
I'm not a great tennis watcher but I don't mind a close game ... or a one-sided game when one of the young Aussies is doing well and it was great to see Ash Barty win again after her brief flirtation with cricket. She seems to have settled down to life as a tennis professional.
One thing that struck me about Bernard Tomic's game tonight was that his opponent, Victor Estrella Burgos, had run one kilometre more than Bernard before they got to the fourth set tiebreaker. That's an incredible difference for a game played on a small court. Tomic seems to be a master at conserving energy.
Not worth commenting on Kyrgios.
Tomic? Grossly unfit, laughable. 70 unforced errors......that's Stosuresque!!
Who coaches him/. All he needed to do was attack that guy's backhand, open up the court and it would have been all over in 75 minutes.
Both these guys are very problematic, albeit talented.
Did anyone watch the fast 40 thing the other week - Tomic was playing Thiem. Tomic was stuffed after two games! (albeit he won that particular match)
Kyrgios is a lazy fatar5e flog who bullied his way in to tennis off the back of a tricky serve and not much else.
The people paying to watch him are nothing for the 50c voyeurs justifying their pathetic existence as sports lovers. Kyrgios is the modern equivalent of the Elephant Man Freak Show from the late 19th century. I expect they are the same people who roll up to car crashes, train wrecks and bush fires to take a selfie. If they had any dignity they would have left the arena shouting for a refund on the way out!
Somebody needs to tell Kyrgios success doesn't come wrapped up like a souvlaki, he deserves nothing and probably needs to be stripped of everything before he gets the message. He is making Jelena Dokic and her family look exceptionally rational!
What sort of sport breeds these parasites, tennis needs a good hard look at itself?
Kyrios is a lazy fatar5e flog who bullied his way in to tennis off the back of a tricky serve and not much else.
The people paying to watch him are nothing for the 50c voyeurs justifying their pathetic existence as sports lovers. Kyrios is the modern equivalent of the Elephant Man Freak Show from the late 19th century. I expect they are the same people who roll up to car crashes, train wrecks and bush fires to take a selfie. If they had any dignity they would have left the arena shouting for a refund on the way out!
Somebody needs to tell Kyrios success doesn't come wrapped up like a souvlaki, he deserves nothing and probably needs to be stripped of everything before he gets the message. He is making Jelena Dokic and her family look exceptionally rational!
What sort of sport breeds these parasites, tennis needs a good hard look at itself?
So, reading between the lines, can I assume you're not entirely impressed with Kyrios... ;) :) (Ps I totally agree).
I reckon Kyrgios (like Tomic and plenty of other young sportsmen before him) has been overly scrutinised to the point where every misstep they make actually is received so poorly by the media it's detrimental to their development.
I watched the end of the 4th and the 5th set, and a bit more luck, he would have come through that 5 and won. It was clear to anyone watching that he was not in great physical condition. The irony is not lost on me that Novak Djokovic looked similarly out of sorts physically against Verdasco the other night.
Just on the physical conditioning, he cant be that much of a slouch to go 3 hours+ in one match, and take the 5th set to 10-8.
Sure, he cost himself an easier win by not being focussed enough when it mattered in the 3rd, but I think that a lot has been taken away from Seppi and placed onto Kyrgios who is like almost every other 21 year old figuring out that talent will only get you part of the way there and that you have to do almost everything right to really kick on and go next level.
He seemed to be extremely negative towards himself after the match in the press conference, and you could tell that he is starting to wake up. I don't believe now is the time to play the man too hard, and am dissapointed to see the massive backlash after his opponent had to save match point in the 5th with some excellent tennis. Sure it shouldnt have gotten to that point, but sometimes we take too much away from people by focussing on the negatives their opponents do.
My final comments, he's 21. Not everyone is a model professional at aged 21, and I will be the first to put my hand up and state thank god video and social media were not around when I was in my teenage years.
I wouldn't have survived aged 15-21 if there was a spotlight ready to be shined upon all my misteps the way kids these days are. They get so scutinised its ridiculous.
It might be worth noting at this point, that the Tennis media, commentary have been very critical of this guy for about 2 years now. Particularly that hypocrite John Mcenroe who simply cannot be serious with his critique of any players mentality. In the current proffesional era, a swing of 5% can see you go from chocolates to boiled lollies very quickly.
Not worth commenting on Kyrgios.
Tomic? Grossly unfit, laughable. 70 unforced errors......that's Stosuresque!!
Who coaches him/. All he needed to do was attack that guy's backhand, open up the court and it would have been all over in 75 minutes.
Both these guys are very problematic, albeit talented.
Did anyone watch the fast 40 thing the other week - Tomic was playing Thiem. Tomic was stuffed after two games! (albeit he won that particular match)
Tomic is lazy, his bigger serve got him out of trouble vs a smaller player who ran harder but had to use more energy to stay in the game. Tomic was happy to sit back and wait for the mistake rather than take the game on.
Kyrgios is a way more talented player but cant be bothered playing long matches...he is a 20/20 player only....too much thinking and exertion for Nick to play any more than 3 sets and annoying opponents like Seppi who play text book tennis and do the 1%ers well even though they have half his talent just wear his patience down.
He needs a coach and a sports shrink , problem is being ranked 14-20 in the world gives you a mighty fine good living, why knock yourself out to be top 5? when you can hang with your mates, go clubbing, shoot a few hoops and skip training...
Has there ever been an Aussie sportsman in history as disliked as Kyrios.
I reckon the majority of fans after watching the tool unravel in set 3 wanted Seppi to win it.
All this crap he could be No 1 makes me laugh. Ability is an important component but to be the best of the best mental toughness, preparation and dire commitment are all quantities this flog would not make the top 200 in.
Majority of Aussie's work hard to make an honest living so watching this wanker make a ton of money with that attitude makes watching him lose so bloody enjoyable.
Really hope he gives it away before he is fully set up financially. Seemed an injustice for some one with his lack of respect, lack of care, and gutter attitude earns the sort of money most honest citizens can only dream of earning.
Thanks Seppi for making my night.
Has there ever been an Aussie sportsman in history as disliked as Kyrios.
I reckon the majority of fans after watching the tool unravel in set 3 wanted Seppi to win it.
All this crap he could be No 1 makes me laugh. Ability is an important component but to be the best of the best mental toughness, preparation and dire commitment are all quantities this flog would not make the top 200 in.
Majority of Aussie's work hard to make an honest living so watching this wanker make a ton of money with that attitude makes watching him lose so bloody enjoyable.
Really hope he gives it away before he is fully set up financially. Seemed an injustice for some one with his lack of respect, lack of care, and gutter attitude earns the sort of money most honest citizens can only dream of earning.
Thanks Seppi for making my night.
Interesting shawny.
Do you not believe that some people can learn from their mistakes, and that some people just take longer to learn from them?
Hypothetical scenario (im reminded of Tomic's 21st strippers at this point) if he does transform himself into a professional, and finds that desire (I think that all people have a strong desire that is beaten out of them by modern society and convenience) would you be similarly begrudging of him??
Or is there no way for him to win respect off you?
Kyrios is a lazy fatar5e flog who bullied his way in to tennis off the back of a tricky serve and not much else.
The people paying to watch him are nothing for the 50c voyeurs justifying their pathetic existence as sports lovers. Kyrios is the modern equivalent of the Elephant Man Freak Show from the late 19th century. I expect they are the same people who roll up to car crashes, train wrecks and bush fires to take a selfie. If they had any dignity they would have left the arena shouting for a refund on the way out!
Somebody needs to tell Kyrios success doesn't come wrapped up like a souvlaki, he deserves nothing and probably needs to be stripped of everything before he gets the message. He is making Jelena Dokic and her family look exceptionally rational!
What sort of sport breeds these parasites, tennis needs a good hard look at itself?
Apart from work ethic, Andy Murray behaved exactly the same (if not worse) for years. Finally got his act together and got a Knighthood to boot (which is a joke I reckon). Even Joker would behave like a child and fake an injury when a game wasn't going his way. Johhny Mac says hi also. You're right though, tennis does seem to breed some highly strung (pun intended) characters who have egos bigger than the pay cheques they receive.
Phil Cleary started an interesting conversation on FB about Kyrgios playing a team sport. While I think that team sports generally require members to channel their efforts for the benefit of the team, I doubt whether Kyrgios (or many other tennis players for that matter) could be an effective team member. I heard Destenee Aiva say that she took up tennis because she didn't like team sports.
I haven't given up on Kyrgios. If he gets a tough coach and is able to cope with being coached 24/7, he could achieve his potential.
Interesting shawny.
Do you not believe that some people can learn from their mistakes, and that some people just take longer to learn from them?
Hypothetical scenario (im reminded of Tomic's 21st strippers at this point) if he does transform himself into a professional, and finds that desire (I think that all people have a strong desire that is beaten out of them by modern society and convenience) would you be similarly begrudging of him??
Or is there no way for him to win respect off you?
Nope he has done his dash in my eyes. He wont change - has not an ounce of remorse, respect in him and that is highly unlikely to change.
No time for his sort of person let alone one earning a small fortune in the process while the average Joe busts his arse grinding away earning an honest living to end up with a fraction of what this bloke will get......and I'm supposed to cheer for him. ::)
He is a spoilt brat who much worse then his little sooky fits has no respect for anyone or anything. His racket breaking fit in the 3rd set came close to bouncing up and hitting the ball boy beside him and yet not even a wave to say sorry -nope nothing! And what about the number of times he swears and rolls his eyes if these kids don't give the flog his towel in under half a second. Murray, Federer all had there moments carrying on but not on this guys level and no one has ever been as smug as this flog in a press confident after behaving like a twit.
Nope cant stand him and never will.
So, reading between the lines, can I assume you're not entirely impressed with Kyrios... ;) :) (Ps I totally agree).
A piece of crape who wastes Federal government funding comes to mind!
The thing is perhaps it's true and he can be great, but it's clear to me someone needs to sit him on his ar5e before that happens because he is burning his opportunity. Spoiled brat also comes to mind, rewarded for tantrums as a kid no doubt!
Cut his funding, let him go and play for another country, maybe he'll wake up to himself. Go and play for one of the old European eastern block states that will put a bullet in the back of his head if he wastes their time and money!
Tennis needs to send a message that this stuff going down on court is totally unacceptable. If they don't the Feds should cut their funding!
Kyrgios can go and get a coaching job with the Kardashians, he'd fit right in!
Finally on Kyrgios, I find it slightly hypocritical that posters here will openly lambaste the likes of Garlett, Robinson and Fev for mostly off-field incidents, while forgiving Kyrgios for stuff that happens in the heat of battle.
A piece of crape who wastes Federal government funding comes to mind!
The thing is perhaps it's true and he can be great, but it's clear to me someone needs to sit him on his ar5e before that happens because he is burning his opportunity. Spoiled brat also comes to mind, rewarded for tantrums as a kid no doubt!
Cut his funding, let him go and play for another country, maybe he'll wake up to himself. Go and play for one of the old European eastern block states that will put a bullet in the back of his head if he wastes their time and money!
Tennis needs to send a message that this stuff going down on court is totally unacceptable. If they don't the Feds should cut their funding!
Kyrgios can go and get a coaching job with the Kardashians, he'd fit right in!
Finally on Kyrgios, I find it slightly hypocritical that posters here will openly lambaste the likes of Garlett, Robinson and Fev for mostly off-field incidents, while forgiving Kyrgios for stuff that happens in the heat of battle.
Agree with all this, he needs a couple right between the eyes.
I haven't given up on Kyrgios. If he gets a tough coach and is able to cope with being coached 24/7, he could achieve his potential.
The problem is that Kyrios can fire any coach he hires on the spot. The coach has absolutely no power over a player. The only weapon a coach has is a threat to walk out if his or her program isn't followed. That threat won't work on a guy who doesn't really want a coach and who just wants to do his own thing. Hiring a dietician won't do a fat person any good if he or she has no intention of making any changes to the diet.
The commentators on Ch7 going soft on Kyrios reminded me of all the fawning of Ch7 commentators over all things Essendon during the drug-cheating scandal. We needed someone like Caroline Wilson or Dave Culbert to call out Kyrios just as the crowd did at the end of the match. All we got was a bit of puzzlement over what was happening. The problem is that Kyrios is Ch7's golden goose and they don't want to risk a Trump-like retaliation by Kyrios against any criticism. Didn't Tomic refuse to play Davis Cup under Pat Rafter after Rafter criticised him? Apart from protecting Ch7's relationship with Kyrios, guys like Woodbridge and Rasheed also have to avoid upsetting Kyrios to ensure he stays engaged with the Davis Cup squad. They won't call him what he is - a spoilt brat who craps all over the tennis public.
Novak down a set for first time in ages, wait for it.
Based on talent, Kyrgios is a great player. When he actually bothers, he constructs points beautifully and has every shot you could wish for. It's a shame that he can't get into the headspace required to be a consistently good player. I don't know if his problem is nature or nurture, but he is both infuriating and exhilarating to watch.
And there's a good reason Stosur rhymes with poser.
Sir Andy not getting his own way against Zverev Snr and at his petulant best towards his own box. Feck me people reckon Kyrios is bad. If there is one sportsperson I could punch in the face, Sir Andy would be it.
I didn't watch the games but I did see some of Ash Barty's and Bernard Tomic's press conferences. Both were gracious in defeat and fully engaged with the media. It was quite refreshing.
I didn't watch the games but I did see some of Ash Barty's and Bernard Tomic's press conferences. Both were gracious in defeat and fully engaged with the media. It was quite refreshing.
Its interesting, this morning I had SEN on in the background and the tennis show was on. I think I heard correctly but they were saying Boris Becker either rang Novak and told him or he made comments in the media to the effect that Novak needs to c--- up and get the crowd against him. Basically is too nice. Did I hear correctly? Did anyone else hear it?
Its interesting, this morning I had SEN on in the background and the tennis show was on. I think I heard correctly but they were saying Boris Becker either rang Novak and told him or he made comments in the media to the effect that Novak needs to c--- up and get the crowd against him. Basically is too nice. Did I hear correctly? Did anyone else hear it?
Yes, they were talking about it on Ch 7. Djokovic apparently wasn't impressed. He has won $108M so far so I'm not sure that he needs to change all that much :)
Sir Andy not getting his own way against Zverev Snr and at his petulant best towards his own box. Feck me people reckon Kyrios is bad. If there is one sportsperson I could punch in the face, Sir Andy would be it.
Yep, its an example of the casual racism that exists in our society.
All the south eastern european types are held to a standard that almost no one can measure up to, yet the anglos get a pass because they are simply passionate about their careers.
Kyrgios may have not played all that well this year, but he was hardly as bad as advertised, and to put that in perspective the bloke that knocked him out just lost to Wawrinka in 3 sets, each of them going to a tie breaker.
If Andy Murray was Andreas Marionovic there would be hell to pay with him behaving like that.
Remeber Lleyton blaming losing on the playing surface at the Aussie Open?? That was more disrespectful that simply getting angry at your coaches box.
Big difference between Hewitt and Kyrios. Hewitt never gave up on a point, let alone tanked games or sets. And no one ever questioned how he trained and prepared for the tennis year and for tournaments and matches. No one ever questioned whether he wanted to get the best out of himself in his tennis career. Hewitt and Kyrios are in fact on opposite ends of the determination and dedication scale.
One of the biggest sins in sports is a professional sportsman who tanks. When Kyrios walks to his chair as his opponent is serving, he sets himself up for contempt. Tanking is prohibited by the ATP. That may be mostly down to betting issues, but it also mirrors the attitudes of tennis fans.
No doubt Hewitt and Murray have had their meltdowns on the tennis court but they never tanked as a result. Murray's play used to be detrimentally affected by his outbursts and anger while Hewitt actually played better when he felt the world was against him. But the meltdowns were more a reflection of their desperation to win rather than a lack of interest and focus as it is with Kyrios.
If Kyrios just broke a few racquets but busted his guts to win, most fans would forgive him for some bad behaviour. But tanking adds an unforgivable 2nd strike. That said, if he grows up and gives his best, Aussies will quickly embrace him.
By the way, we shouldn't forget that Hewitt lost a lot of Aussie fans for good because of his outbursts even though he's a blond haired and blue eyed bogan who would have been as comfortable in Home & Away as his missus. On the other hand, Pat Rafter was universally loved.
In the same way, I'd imagine that Roger has far more fans here than Sir Andy.
Yep, its an example of the casual racism that exists in our society.
All the south eastern european types are held to a standard that almost no one can measure up to, yet the anglos get a pass because they are simply passionate about their careers.
Kyrgios may have not played all that well this year, but he was hardly as bad as advertised, and to put that in perspective the bloke that knocked him out just lost to Wawrinka in 3 sets, each of them going to a tie breaker.
If Andy Murray was Andreas Marionovic there would be hell to pay with him behaving like that.
Remeber Lleyton blaming losing on the playing surface at the Aussie Open?? That was more disrespectful that simply getting angry at your coaches box.
Murray is not Anglo; he's a Celt. We may look similar but don't lump us all together ; Kyrgios has Malayan ancestry too.
I understand what you're getting at though Thry. I wonder how Kyrgios would be treated if he was a little more conservative in his appearance.
Did you hear Daria Gavrilova explain how she used a toilet break to regain her composure?
"Well, I went to the bathroom. I think I was losing my cool a little bit in the second set," Gavrilova said.
"I told myself, 'just try and be composed. Don't do what you did last year'. I told myself to be really focused and play a tough point every point."
I know it's not part of the game now but I wonder if giving players the opportunity to call a time out would reduce the temper tantrums and bad behaviour.
By the way, we shouldn't forget that Hewitt lost a lot of Aussie fans for good because of his outbursts even though he's a blond haired and blue eyed bogan who would have been as comfortable in Home & Away as his missus. On the other hand, Pat Rafter was universally loved.
In the same way, I'd imagine that Roger has far more fans here than Sir Andy.
I am sure someone will probably shoot this down however in my mind, Roger is the model sportsperson (like Pat Rafter was before him). He rarely complains, rarely looks at/communicates with his box, rarely argues with the umpire and doesn't use tactics to unsettle his opponent. He simple goes about his business and win or lose, his behavior is the same. Kyrios could do well and take a leaf or 10 out of Rogers book.
Roger was well known for his tantrums in his teenage years...
Roger was well known for his tantrums in his teenage years...
Yes, and some of his post losing match press conferences have been notable for his refusal to acknowledge that his opponent played better tennis.
Roger was well known for his tantrums in his teenage years...
Not sure you can justify the behavior of a 21 year old Kyrgios by referencing the behavior of 16 year old Federer.
Perhaps Kyrgios' parents should take away his pocket money! :D
And there's a good reason Stosur rhymes with poser.
What a cheap shot...and this time last year another poster on this site accused her of having mental issues!!
Sam Stosur's record is fine - she has been a Top 25 player for the best part of 10 years, not a bad effort and there are a lot of players who can't boast that.
Out of all the court surfaces, the ones used in Australia give her the most trouble...she hates them, but never complains.
Have a look at her end of year player ranking (keeping in mind in 2007 and 2008 she was suffering from Lyme disease):
2016 #21
2015 #27
2014 #23
2013 #18
2012 #9
2011 #6
2010 #6
2009 #13
2008 #52
2007 #46
As Andre Agassi once said: "that's the thing about opinion, you don't have to know anything to have one..."
Not sure you can justify the behavior of a 21 year old Kyrgios by referencing the behavior of 16 year old Federer.
Perhaps Kyrgios' parents should take away his pocket money! :D
I wasn't...but making out that Roger has always been a saint is not quite right - fantastic over the past decade though.
Just saying every player has their moments in a very demanding sport...
What a cheap shot...and this time last year another poster on this site accused her of having mental issues!!
Sam Stosur's record is fine - she has been a Top 25 player for the best part of 10 years, not a bad effort and there are a lot of players who can't boast that.
Out of all the court surfaces, the ones used in Australia give her the most trouble...she hates them, but never complains.
Have a look at her end of year player ranking (keeping in mind in 2007 and 2008 she was suffering from Lyme disease):
2016 #21
2015 #27
2014 #23
2013 #18
2012 #9
2011 #6
2010 #6
2009 #13
2008 #52
2007 #46
As Andre Agassi once said: "that's the thing about opinion, you don't have to know anything to have one..."
There isn't a tennis fan alive who would think that Stosur has achieved her potential. She's been a disappointment by any measure.
Federer is smug and a terrible loser. Certainly the greatest male player of all time, but not my cuppa.
Remember, also, that Kyrios had massive support as he made his initial breakthrough in the AO. The fact that he was a showman didn't put many off at all. Brashness isn't a disqualifying quality at all. His haircut was just as trendy and his strut was just as confident as now. I can even remember suggesting at the time (I think on here) that Tomic had to watch out as Kyrios and Kokkinakos were both such a dose of fresh air and talent that the public would desert him and follow them instead. In an egg-on-face moment, I suggested that they were so much better behaved than Tomic. It might be easy to rewrite history by concluding that Kyrios' dress and ethnicity were always going to work against him, but there's nothing to support it. Tanking, however, is ALWAYS going to kill off support. I can just imagine what would happen on our site if one of our players cracked the proverbial and refused to compete. The blond and blue-eyed Hendo certainly copped his fair share of criticism on that score.
Federer is smug and a terrible loser. Certainly the greatest male player of all time, but not my cuppa.
Really? He's as competitive as anyone on tour and obviously hates losing, but respects opponents and officials after a loss. After a loss, you can give him the microphone and you can be confident he won't go beserk. He's had a lot of disappointments since he last won a major, and now has the redemption story that makes his AO campaign so compelling. After being Apollo Creed in earlier years, he's now the gritty underdog in the mould of Rocky.
Federer is smug and a terrible loser. Certainly the greatest male player of all time, but not my cuppa.
Really, Roger Federer, cow owner, driver of station wagons?
Perhaps you're thinking of Jimmy Connors or Boris Becker, now there is a pair of definitions for smugness and poor sportsmanship?
Perhaps it's a little churlish on my part to take issue with Fed given the preponderance of others with worse behaviour. But he simply gets on my wick. And as DJC pointed out, when he loses it's always about him. How badly he played, how bad his preparation was etc. He rarely acknowledges his opponent. Although to be fair, this has improved somewhat in recent times.
Saint Roger.......meh.
Murray is not Anglo; he's a Celt. We may look similar but don't lump us all together ; Kyrgios has Malayan ancestry too.
I understand what you're getting at though Thry. I wonder how Kyrgios would be treated if he was a little more conservative in his appearance.
Did you hear Daria Gavrilova explain how she used a toilet break to regain her composure?
I know it's not part of the game now but I wonder if giving players the opportunity to call a time out would reduce the temper tantrums and bad behaviour.
Apololgies DJC.
FWIW this is my opinion on athletes, copy and pasted from elsewhere:
He's a Brit. It's ok for them to act like wankers but not others. To be honest, I think they should be able to behave as they like provided they aren't breaching rules. Why do athletes have to be held to such high standards when we accept all manner of screwwits in society? They're good at sport ffs not the delai lama.Look above. People get all churlish about Kyrgios, but his opponent took Wawrinka through the wringer to try and beat him (straight sets, but 3 tie breakers in a row is as good a contest as you will get in straight sets, and there is no shame in not winning a set), and you can state that he would achieve more if he applied himself, but not one person has acknowledged that Andreas Seppi who played about as good a tournament as he ever has beat him fair and square by being more measured.
It was interesting, Seppi even stated in his post match press conference that he had been at that point before (like Kyrgios) and lost and that he learned from it.
Now its a matter of whether or not Kyrgios will learn.
Regarding the casual racism, its not up to me to defend that. I have simply pointed it out. What I find interesting, is the need for people to then act like its to do with his "behaviour". Look above, they are people. Not all humans are the consumate professionals. We should know that all too well, and anyone below 22 really shouldnt have this level of scrutiny on what they do. We judge them on exposure of maybe 40 hours a year. What do we know about their lives? We have people calling them spoilt, but last I checked, there must be some level of dedication to even turn pro in the first place. We comment all the time about people "making it" and then not applying themselves once at the top level. Phillipoussis was another example.
He never really tanked during his career, but he got lots of negative criticism because of the Cars and the women. its his life, he lives it, and does what he does.
Big difference between Hewitt and Kyrios. Hewitt never gave up on a point, let alone tanked games or sets. And no one ever questioned how he trained and prepared for the tennis year and for tournaments and matches. No one ever questioned whether he wanted to get the best out of himself in his tennis career. Hewitt and Kyrios are in fact on opposite ends of the determination and dedication scale.
Hewitt was never held to any standards and was regarded as the darling of Australian sport even if he was guilty of steeling someone else's celebration, and then pumping up every single point he won, even if it was his opponents unforced error (unsportsmanlike IMHO).
Still, he had fairly high standards that he lived up to, even if he was occasionally unsavoury and was capable of pulling the excuse of blaming the surface at the Aussie open but no one begrudged that of him.
One of the biggest sins in sports is a professional sportsman who tanks. When Kyrios walks to his chair as his opponent is serving, he sets himself up for contempt. Tanking is prohibited by the ATP. That may be mostly down to betting issues, but it also mirrors the attitudes of tennis fans.
No doubt Hewitt and Murray have had their meltdowns on the tennis court but they never tanked as a result. Murray's play used to be detrimentally affected by his outbursts and anger while Hewitt actually played better when he felt the world was against him. But the meltdowns were more a reflection of their desperation to win rather than a lack of interest and focus as it is with Kyrios.
If Kyrios just broke a few racquets but busted his guts to win, most fans would forgive him for some bad behaviour. But tanking adds an unforgivable 2nd strike. That said, if he grows up and gives his best, Aussies will quickly embrace him.
The accusation of tanking is interesting. Just because everyone calls it tanking, doesnt mean he necessarily did. Its kind of hypocritical. We have someone who is admonished for not doing the work in to be a proffesional athlete, and then when he plays a very flat game of tennis after probably going to his limits in such a short period of time, due to poor preparation, he is then accused of tanking.
Even at the Shanghai Masters, it was against Mischa Zverev. A bloke who knocked out Andy Murray in 5 sets yesterday.
I don't really care whether or not people like or dislike an athlete, but to me, I see this particular case as casual racism and its not up to me to convince you it exists, I'm throwing the comment out there as to why people automatically have the above opinions of the southern europeans particularly in the media.
Again, athletes are not the moral compass of society, and if the media are attacking someone, these days you should ignore them because they go the easy headline most of the time and most of the easy ones have been thrown out about Nick Kyrgios.
It would have been nice if you had acknowledged that Kyrgios was officially fined by the ATP for tanking at the Shanghai Masters and suspended for 8 weeks and he apologised. He is the first player to be suspended for behavioural issues since McEnroe in 1987. Other players have been fined for tanking (e.g. Safin) but their behaviour didn't draw a suspension. So as he's a "convicted" tanker, I don't need to convince you he tanks when he walks to the chair while his opponent is in his service action as he did in his loss at the AO. I'm just putting it out there. But if Kyrgios feels it's unfair for tennis fans to think, "Here he goes again", he would seem to be in the same position as the old guy in this joke:
So a man walks into a bar, and sits down. He starts a conversation with an old guy next to him. The old guy has obviously had a few. He says to the man:
"You see that dock out there? Built it myself, hand crafted each piece, and it's the best dock in town! But do they call me "Smith the dock builder"? No! And you see that bridge over there? I built that, took me two months, through rain, sleet and scoarching weather, but do they call me "Smith the bridge builder"? No! And you see that pier over there, I built that, best pier in the county! But do they call me "Smith the pier builder"? No!"
The old guy looks around, and makes sure that nobody is listening, and leans to the man, and he says:
"but you frack one sheep..."
Apololgies DJC.
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I don't really care whether or not people like or dislike an athlete, but to me, I see this particular case as casual racism and its not up to me to convince you it exists, I'm throwing the comment out there as to why people automatically have the above opinions of the southern europeans particularly in the media.
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No apology necessary Thry.
I suspect you're right about casual racism; Murray cops it from the English too, except when he's winning. There are probably other factors at play too; tall poppy syndrome, grumpy old men, self righteous shock jocks with an axe to grind and ratings to protect ...
It would have been nice if you had acknowledged that Kyrgios was officially fined by the ATP for tanking at the Shanghai Masters and suspended for 8 weeks and he apologised. He is the first player to be suspended for behavioural issues since McEnroe in 1987. Other players have been fined for tanking (e.g. Safin) but their behaviour didn't draw a suspension. So as he's a "convicted" tanker, I don't need to convince you he tanks when he walks to the chair while his opponent is in his service action as he did in his loss at the AO. I'm just putting it out there. But if Kyrgios feels it's unfair for tennis fans to think, "Here he goes again", he would seem to be in the same position as the old guy in this joke:
If he has to fight his tanking past every time, then it's clear people will always have an axe to grind against why they dislike him.
it was only a couple of years back you could substitute tomic for Kyrgios with the exact same criticism.
He pulled out of one match with an injury.
His tanking past? Leaving aside the Hopman Cup which is basically a warm-up, the fiasco with Seppi was just his 2nd game after the Shanghai tank. Using that sort of logic, all sins are in the past. He needs to prove himself rather than tanking every 2nd game.
His tanking past? Leaving aside the Hopman Cup which is basically a warm-up, the fiasco with Seppi was just his 2nd game after the Shanghai tank. Using that sort of logic, all sins are in the past. He needs to prove himself rather than tanking every 2nd game.
Did he tank against Seppi??
He looked pretty crestfallen regarding losing, and didnt blame anyone but himself for losing sighting poor preparation, poor physical conditioning (which leads to poor mental ability to remain in tight matches).
He does need to prove himself, there is no doubt about that, but this is for him, not everyone else.
The accusation of tanking is interesting. Just because everyone calls it tanking, doesn't mean he necessarily did. Its kind of hypocritical. We have someone who is admonished for not doing the work in to be a professional athlete, and then when he plays a very flat game of tennis after probably going to his limits in such a short period of time, due to poor preparation, he is then accused of tanking.
I don't see as hypocritical, I see the actions of Kyrgios as almost definitive of tanking.
You don't have to be getting a kick-back to be accused of tanking, there doesn't have to be a reward or reason for it and it doesn't just happen on the field of play.
Tanking can start on the training track or even the couch! You can prepare to tank well in advance, or you can tank by your lack of preparation, but it's still a tank!
^^
I disagree.
Tanking by definition is deliberately losing.
I don't think you can accuse someone of tanking under your circumstances.
Particularly when they are actually trying to win.
At this level (read the elite competition), blokes are pushing themselves to the point of exhaustion to win matches. When you are exhausted the body actually sends the signal to the brain that its done and cannot continue pushing, and at some point the brain needs to start saying I know my limits, and I haven't reached them yet. Problem being if you only ever push to those limits on game day, you will submit to the body more frequently where the really strong inidividuals will find something somewhere and dig in to try and win. That is from the brain. But it only comes once you have been pushed to that point frequently and recognise the signs. As Carlton supporters we know exactly what this point is. Chris Judd was a prime example of going to the peak and then willing himself to the next level. Why? preparation, fitness, strength which leads to a mental fortitude that a lot players don't have. On the flipside we have a few players who were blessed physically who never really put in the work that a Judd would, and would play many poor games and the odd sterling one.
Thats where Kyrgios is at the moment. To accuse these players of tanking is too derogatory. They compete. They are just incapable of competing with players that are doing all the 1% stuff.
Most of them have learned in the past what they were doing wrong and have had more time to fix it. Kyrgios hasn't. He beat Nadal once, and thought "ive made it" and that it would be easy enough from there. He is wrong. It gets harder in time. Its very easy to be young and talented. The hard bit is going on with it, and really going to the levels you are capable of.
I think there ought be two categories of tanking - one where you stand to gain (draft picks, money etc.) and one where you stop trying because you simply don't care, but don't gain any benefit. Same result, but different motivation. And they should be treated differently imo.
Kyrgios is losing plenty and gaining nothing in his version.
Kyrgios wasn't the definition of tanking...
He was the definition of a young kid who is need of help - all sorts of help.
This will be addressed in the near future.
To fade like he did for no obvious reason, in prime time and on centre stage, showed the fans and the tennis world that he needs support and guidance.
Finding the right people is a challenge, but something Tennis Australia is very aware of and working hard on. They have never criticised him publicly, because they don't want to lose him to the sport. But this is more than "a bit of attitude"...
How overpaid/overrated is women's tennis....have seen about 3 good matches in 20 years.
And they must make Slam semis and finals best of 5 sets.
Fed, you beauty!
Graceful on court and graceful off it. 100% for his speech. Heaped praise on Rafa in a particularly warm fashion. And the mutual respect between them shows men of great character. It must be hard to avoid vicious combat and occasional psychological warfare poisoning their relationship.
Great to hear that Fed attended the opening of Rafa's tennis academy late last year. And his respect for Rocket and Muscles is endearing too. He really loves the sport whereas quite a few top tennis players only love themselves.
I did not think he would win this one. He definately isn't what he was years ago. He still found what was needed when he needed it the most. 18 grand slam titles. Wow.
Federer was more aggressive than I have seen him, also Rafa's serve was very half rat power, I too thought Nadal would win given his record over Federer but the Swiss maestro played better than he has for a couple of years IMO..
Dont normally get too interested in the tennis but when its played at a high standard by two of the greats its compulsory viewing.....
But for Federer's (Nadal phobia inspired) unforced errors, the Fed would have won in straight sets...
Nadal's serve and forehand simply aren't what they were....
I believe Raonic was injured significantly in his match with Rafa. i reckon a fit Raonic would beat Rafa comfortably too. Then there's Murray and the Djoker....
Pat Cash threw a funny wobbly over Fed calling an injury time out at the end of the 4th set. He said it was cheating - legal cheating but cheating nevertheless.
Slowing down the game to blunt the opponent's momentum is exactly what Rafa does all the time. He stretches out the time between the serves to achieve this. Not only does he do this on his own serve, but also when receiving. He makes the server wait for him to get into position. The etiquette of tennis is that the receiver should play to the server's pace. It's the job of the receiver to be ready to receive whenever the server starts his service motion - much like batsmen are supposed to be ready for the bowler whether he comes off a short or a long run. Of course, that's not in the rules so it's a breach of etiquette rather than a breach of the rules. There is a time limit on serving, though, and Rafa usually exceeds it but is rarely called on it. So you'd have to say that Rafa cheats within the rules too. From a spectator's POV, I'd take Fed's tactic over Rafa's. Knowing Fed's off the court getting treatment means you can get a beer without missing anything, but the extra Rafa takes during games just slows the game down.
The funny thing is that Rafa can use his tactic but others can't. Umpires just accept that Rafa takes his time and rarely act. But if Fed did the same, umpires would say that he's deliberately slowing down play and they'd rigorously enforce the time limit against him.
It's a bit like the controversy over grunting in women's tennis. One of Sharapova's opponents started doing the same back to her but officials made it clear that they'd ping her for doing so because they knew that wasn't part of her game. So Sharapova and others were allowed to grunt as they claimed it was beyond their control while others were warned that they had to avoid grunting.
Nadal's serve and forehand simply aren't what they were....
I believe Raonic was injured significantly in his match with Rafa. i reckon a fit Raonic would beat Rafa comfortably too. Then there's Murray and the Djoker....
Grand Slam tennis is an endurance event, survival of the fitness, with a bit of luck thrown in when unknowns knock out a favourite to make your path easier.
Anyone who watched Dimitrov / Nadal live would not consider Rafa's forehand any less potent than recent time. His serve has never been his weapon.
Pat Cash threw a funny wobbly over Fed calling an injury time out at the end of the 4th set. He said it was cheating - legal cheating but cheating nevertheless.
Slowing down the game to blunt the opponent's momentum is exactly what Rafa does all the time. He stretches out the time between the serves to achieve this. Not only does he do this on his own serve, but also when receiving. He makes the server wait for him to get into position. The etiquette of tennis is that the receiver should play to the server's pace. It's the job of the receiver to be ready to receive whenever the server starts his service motion - much like batsmen are supposed to be ready for the bowler whether he comes off a short or a long run. Of course, that's not in the rules so it's a breach of etiquette rather than a breach of the rules. There is a time limit on serving, though, and Rafa usually exceeds it but is rarely called on it. So you'd have to say that Rafa cheats within the rules too. From a spectator's POV, I'd take Fed's tactic over Rafa's. Knowing Fed's off the court getting treatment means you can get a beer without missing anything, but the extra Rafa takes during games just slows the game down.
The funny thing is that Rafa can use his tactic but others can't. Umpires just accept that Rafa takes his time and rarely act. But if Fed did the same, umpires would say that he's deliberately slowing down play and they'd rigorously enforce the time limit against him.
It's a bit like the controversy over grunting in women's tennis. One of Sharapova's opponents started doing the same back to her but officials made it clear that they'd ping her for doing so because they knew that wasn't part of her game. So Sharapova and others were allowed to grunt as they claimed it was beyond their control while others were warned that they had to avoid grunting.
Inconsistency and interpretation are inevitable anywhere laws exist. It's up to the authorities to call him on it. He is, like any sportsman, open to pushing the boundaries on certain things to get a winning advantage. As a rafa fan, I've seen him get plenty of time warnings in his career. I notice that holier-than-thou Roger is also not averse to having time outs at critical moments, albeit less than rafa.
Grand Slam tennis is an endurance event, survival of the fitness, with a bit of luck thrown in when unknowns knock out a favourite to make your path easier.
Anyone who watched Dimitrov / Nadal live would not consider Rafa's forehand any less potent than recent time. His serve has never been his weapon.
yep, watched all 5 hours of the RN-GD game. i stand by my comments.
Paul, not sure I'd call Federer holier-than-thou. I'd call him a traditionalist, often to his disadvantage. A good comparison would be Adam Gilchrist who honoured a long-lost tradition of walking even in the case of feathered edges which were imperceptible to umpires.
In Federer's case, he clung to his small-headed raquet, didn't like the Hawkeye system, and didn't like injury time-outs. His coaches begged him to move to a larger raquet for years but he only made the change recently. He seemed to make ridiculous challenges as if to underline his dislike of Hawkeye, but now he uses it wisely like every other player (and to good effect last night). And he has come to terms with the fact that the rules allow injury timeouts rather than players being forced to play despite injuries. He now uses them like other players do.
If he'd railed against other players' using large-headed raquets or injury timeouts in the past (rather than criticising the rules that allow them to do so), I'd agree he's now being hypocritical. But if not, then he's just going with the flow after some idiosyncratic resistance.
As for the injury timeouts, no one can prove Federer had no injury. He's a 35 year old and it's unlikely he was playing without any niggle or strain. Getting a massage and a retape makes sense if it's allowed, just as it makes sense for footy players to get a massage late in games before returning late in the game.
It used to be that niggles and cramps were bad luck. Players were expected to work on their conditioning to avoid such problems in gruelling matches. Remember when Pat Rafter sweated so much that he lost electrolytes and collapsed on the court in convulsions? He was well ahead of Agassi in their AO match at the time. Rafter was forced to withdraw as there were no injury timeouts allowed back then for a loss of conditioning. When Agassi was asked whether he felt that the victory was undeserved, he responded angrily that the game was as much about making sure you could last for 5 sets as it was about winning the first 2 sets.
The tennis authorities blinked later on for fear of being sued by a player who was required to play on with cramps or strains. Now, the rules allow treatment for niggles or loss of conditioning. No doubt players from Cash's era hate the change and Federer would prefer a return to the more unforgiving rules of the past. But if you can't beat them, you might as well join them.
I have no issue with injury time outs, and in fact I support them. I don't want to see the Pat Rafter incident to which you refer (and similar) happen to anyone else. I understand as with all systems, the opportunistic types will find "loopholes" that can be exploited.
It's perfectly true that no one can prove Fed's time outs were not warranted. As you say, he's 35 etc. But you could also say the same about Rafa. He plays a more brutal and taxing type of tennis, and has missed out on large amounts of tennis because of his injuries. Given his style of tennis, it is quite possible that his various time outs were also warranted. Although in both Fed's and Rafa's case, they certainly seem to come at "convenient" moments.
I watched the last two sets and thoroughly enjoyed the contest. I was pretty sure Rafa would win after the way he played in the fourth set but he simply couldn't maintain that form.
It was interesting to hear the commentators talking about how much Rafa and Fed love tennis (I'd love it too if I could make as much money!). I couldn't help think that Kyrgios and, to a lesser extent, Tomic don't have the same love for the game. I think I recall Kyrgios saying something about not enjoying tennis.
I have no issue with injury time outs, and in fact I support them. I don't want to see the Pat Rafter incident to which you refer (and similar) happen to anyone else. I understand as with all systems, the opportunistic types will find "loopholes" that can be exploited.
It's perfectly true that no one can prove Fed's time outs were not warranted. As you say, he's 35 etc. But you could also say the same about Rafa. He plays a more brutal and taxing type of tennis, and has missed out on large amounts of tennis because of his injuries. Given his style of tennis, it is quite possible that his various time outs were also warranted. Although in both Fed's and Rafa's case, they certainly seem to come at "convenient" moments.
I reckon I'll give Fed the benefit of the doubt given his standing in the game. Fed, Rafa and someone like Rafter before them (Im sure there are others also) are in my eyes the best examples of good sportsman and gentlemen on and off the court. Blokes like Murray ( >:D), Joker, Kyrios, Tomic and the like wouldn't tie the shoe laces of the three I mentioned. Joker has gotten better since his ranking topped out but I reckon has the potential to revert to his old ways. Time will tell. The rest are just spoilt brat a-holes who have no idea how to conduct them selves and dont understand/appreciate how talented they are and the privileges they are afforded because of their talents.