CV and mad panic behaviour

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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7380 – May 09, 2024, 04:29:25 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on May 09, 2024, 04:15:38 pm

The issue is that the data used to support both sets of numbers were used to paint a picture.

The adverse reactions to the vaccines under reported as coincidences. Likewise the number of people significantly impacted by covid were over stated.

The vaccine companies (all) made wide sweeping shonky claims afmbout efficacy to go with it and you end up with a scenario where most people questioned what the best outcome was going to be.

When you strip it all bare, covid was no walk in the park. It isn't the killer it was made out to be either but it left the general public questioning what was the lesser of two evils and real doctors were silenced on the matter and it became politicised.

Where you sit in any of it is subjective and largely determined by personal choices but I saw some extremely autocratic behaviour which I'm hoping never gets repeated.

I think there is a fair bit of hindsight going on, 3 Leos. At the time, we just didn't know. Worst case scenario seemed plausible and frightening.
Science and pollies were all on the back foot and unsure, and most were doing their best.
I don't recall any vaccine manufacturer claiming 100% safety; they spoke of the potential -- albeit low -- risk for some people, hence staying in surgeries/pharmacies for 15 minutes after the innoculation before leaving. But as troubling as it was to know, there was a low risk for some folks, as there is with every medication/vaccine.
In hindsight some pollies overreacted and some under-reacted. Few got it right - in hindsight.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7381 – May 09, 2024, 04:31:02 pm

I didn't enjoy the lock downs etc., but they were the right decision, given that nobody knew exactly what we were dealing with.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7382 – May 09, 2024, 05:33:06 pm

The question will be..."what will we do next time"?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7383 – May 09, 2024, 05:55:31 pm

Awesome, reality and honest reporting providing more ammunition for the tin hat denier crowd. Yay.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7384 – May 09, 2024, 11:00:21 pm

Quote from: Baggers on May 09, 2024, 04:29:25 pm

I think there is a fair bit of hindsight going on, 3 Leos. At the time, we just didn't know. Worst case scenario seemed plausible and frightening.
Science and pollies were all on the back foot and unsure, and most were doing their best.
I don't recall any vaccine manufacturer claiming 100% safety; they spoke of the potential -- albeit low -- risk for some people, hence staying in surgeries/pharmacies for 15 minutes after the innoculation before leaving. But as troubling as it was to know, there was a low risk for some folks, as there is with every medication/vaccine.
In hindsight some pollies overreacted and some under-reacted. Few got it right - in hindsight.

Not really Baggers. By the time the vaccines came around we had a much better view of the virus and its potential to cause harm. The worst case scenario wasn't happening. That much was obvious in health care.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7385 – May 10, 2024, 09:41:12 am

My friend and former colleague, Prof Catherine Bennett, has written an informative article about how Australia dropped the COVID ball after a very promising start:

https://www.bmj.com/content/380/bmj.p469

Catherine starts with;

“Even with its borders open and widespread infection happening for the better part of a year, Australia’s covid-19 mortality is 736 deaths per million—less than a quarter of Italy, the UK, and US, and just over half of Canada and Denmark.1 Applying the death rates of other countries on 20 February 2022 to the Australian population provides a rough indication of the lives saved through border closures and other measures to contain outbreaks in the first two years of the pandemic. If Australia had experienced the same cumulative fatality rate as Denmark, which had around 733 deaths per million people, then its death count would have been over 19 000, whereas it stood at 4901 on 20 February 2022.1 All other large western countries also fared worse, with mortality in Italy, the UK, and US exceeding 2500 per million people.1 Australia saved upwards of 60 000 lives by avoiding those very high death tolls.”

To reiterate, COVID mortality in Australia was 736 deaths per million compared to in excess of 2500 deaths per million in the USA and the UK. The worst case scenario wasn’t happening in Australia because of the very effective measures put in place by Australian Governments.

Edit: Of course, living on an island continent helped too!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7386 – May 10, 2024, 03:06:01 pm

Quote from: DJC on May 10, 2024, 09:41:12 am

To reiterate, COVID mortality in Australia was 736 deaths per million compared to in excess of 2500 deaths per million in the USA and the UK. The worst case scenario wasn’t happening in Australia because of the very effective measures put in place by Australian Governments.

Yes, our natural geographic isolation was in effect a test case for the efficacy of lockdowns.

The next time they should really close boarders to travellers harder and sooner, but I fear the screaming lunatics will again influence politicians and disrupt efforts to save lives.

The hard evidence, the numbers, confirm isolation works to slow / delay transmission, there is no debate!

Ultimately, the severity and acceleration of the pandemic came down to global politics and local bureaucracy.

We should all be vigilant, Avian Flu is spreading, just this week there are reports of dead birds lining highways here in Melbourne around Werribee and Carrum Downs sewerage works. Not just one or two birds as is usual, but dozens and dozens over extended distances. Influenza as a starting point is many times more deadly than Coronavirus.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7387 – May 10, 2024, 03:21:15 pm

Quote from: LP on May 10, 2024, 03:06:01 pm

Yes, our natural geographic isolation was in effect a test case for the efficacy of lockdowns.

The next time they should really close boarders to travellers harder and sooner, but I fear the screaming lunatics will again influence politicians and disrupt efforts to save lives.

The hard evidence, the numbers, confirm isolation works to slow / delay transmission, there is no debate!

Ultimately, the severity and acceleration of the pandemic came down to global politics and local bureaucracy.

We should all be vigilant, Avian Flu is spreading, just this week there are reports of dead birds lining highways here in Melbourne around Werribee and Carrum Downs sewerage works. Not just one or two birds as is usual, but dozens and dozens over extended distances. Influenza as a starting point is many times more deadly than Coronavirus.

A new variant of CoVid called " Flirt" has also hit our shores....not sure what the symptoms are and if it has anything to do with the name?🤔

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7388 – May 10, 2024, 04:53:36 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on May 10, 2024, 03:21:15 pm

A new variant of CoVid called " Flirt" has also hit our shores....not sure what the symptoms are and if it has anything to do with the name?🤔

Yes, and I've just got family coming back from the states!

But even so, some of the same people who predicted COVID about a decade before it happened, just a year or two after MERS they tried to warn authorities who largely ignored them. They think if the same mutation rates follow the same patterns they are predicting another pandemic with Avian Flu by the Mid 2030s, it really only a matter of when not if. The science was based on good evidence of what had happened in the evolution of the bugs between SARS in 2003 and MERS in 2012.

With these predictions the mutation part is random, they openly admit it could never become virulent or it could be deadly tomorrow, the problem is do you ignore the risk, like we ignored them last time?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7389 – May 10, 2024, 11:29:57 pm

Just to dot point what im saying. The vaccines were garbage the lockdowns not so much.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7390 – May 11, 2024, 07:11:40 am

Quote from: Thryleon on May 10, 2024, 11:29:57 pm

Just to dot point what im saying. The vaccines were garbage the lockdowns not so much.

Fair points, I think the vaccines were as good as they could have been given the incredibly short time they were fast tracked in. I remember hearing a Aussie scientist on radio at the time saying how the amount of worldwide collaboration and information sharing when they were trying to come up with a vaccine was out of this world. They were virtually living on zoom/teams day and night. I cant remember the numbers but they were like trying to expedite 10 years of work in months.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7391 – May 11, 2024, 07:30:35 am

I am seeing lots of articles pop up lately potting the various covid responses. Today there is an article suggesting police were heavy handed during the covid protests. What purpose does it serve? Everyone's an expert after the fact. Governments and their agencies were doing the best they could with the limited information they had to protect the greater community. The farktards out there protesting were doing it just to get out of the house with little or no regards for the safety of the community. I think it was such an uncertain time where everyone just needed to stick together and follow the rules (as hard and draconian as they might have seemed).
Anyway, that's my take on that whole saga. Hopefully we never have to experience it again, if we do hopefully we are better equiped.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7392 – May 11, 2024, 10:44:50 am

Quote from: Thryleon on May 10, 2024, 11:29:57 pm

Just to dot point what im saying. The vaccines were garbage the lockdowns not so much.

The statistical evidence of the efficacy for both lockdowns and vaccines is overwhelmingly positive, globally there are billions of tests cases for both, it's the great weakness in the anti-vax anti-lockdown position which just confirms all opinions are not equal.

Even more damning, are the statistics for the unvaccinated outcomes, pretty much any valid peer reviewed source shows the unvaccinated fell or had worse outcomes at massively higher rates to the vaccinated.

There are some scientific and specialist groups who remain anti-vax, but they have largely dropped the efficacy debate as it's a loser in any circle, they now choose to focus on the rare side-effects.

They know trying to debate that the vaccines weren't efficacious is like standing in front of an ocean while claiming water doesn't exist, so they won't even mention it out of the fear of lost credibility, but they remain happy to stoke those fires anonymously in social media. The have a generalised anti-vax position, some due to religion, maybe others due to trypanophobia.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7393 – May 11, 2024, 11:04:53 am

Quote from: Thryleon on May 10, 2024, 11:29:57 pm

Just to dot point what im saying. The vaccines were garbage the lockdowns not so much.

Real life, anecdotal story.

This little black duck, fully vaccinated with one booster, has had Covid about four times. The first three times barely noticing the symptoms - day or two of mild fever, mild sore throat, mild runny nose. Then a complete recovery. Over the past nine months I've not had my boosters - silly boy. Got Covid again about three/four weeks ago. Thought things would follow the usual symptomology. Nuh. Couple of days mild fever etc... then it got progressively worse, into the chest/lungs. Ended up with bronchitis and mild pneumonia for around five to seven days. Coughing up things that should have hopped out of my lungs into the nearest pond to join the other frogs! No need for hospitalisation, never got anywhere near that bad - thank the gods for a strong immune system. Completely recovered now.

I recall me posting when I had the mild symptoms recently and then Principal LODS posting that it can develop and get worse... he was right, and I only had myself to blame. Guess who's booked in for a booster shot soon. (Ps the doc diagnosed it was Covid that I had, not another flu etc.)

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #7394 – May 11, 2024, 11:09:15 am

Quote from: LP on May 11, 2024, 10:44:50 am

They know trying to debate that the vaccines weren't efficacious is like standing in front of an ocean while claiming water doesn't exist...

Love it...