Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on April 04, 2021, 09:10:30 am

Title: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: crashlander on April 04, 2021, 09:10:30 am
How did we play?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 04, 2021, 06:03:44 pm
Good for 2 and 1/2 quarters, scratchy thereafter. There's definitely things that I could quibble about, but for now, I'm going to enjoy the fact that :
a. we cracked the ton
b. we got the 4 points.
c. we won by nearly 8 goals.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: shawny on April 04, 2021, 06:09:48 pm
I’m happy.  Wanted it more. Walsh in a A grader. I said last week Harry is developing nicely. Cripps was hard at it and really liked Jack, Fogarty and Jones games today.
Parks looks ok and happy to win like that without much input from our new recruits in Williams and Saad.
Negative side is Dow looks unable to take the step needed. Too quick to feed off to players under the pump. Time to give stocker and Kennedy a ran of games.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 04, 2021, 06:14:04 pm
I wasn't confident, we got the win, many played well so Im happy.
Ill single out some:
Fogarty, what a recruit, hard, composed, makes things happen.
Jones, a rock today.
H, should have got 10, led very well to the right spot.
Cripps, responded how we expected.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Micky0 on April 04, 2021, 06:16:04 pm
Bugger missed watching the game - look forward to watching the replay! Nice to clock into the game and we were 44 to 19! Been a long time coming!!!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: townsendcalling on April 04, 2021, 06:19:27 pm
I think that Eddie may keep his place until Fisher comes back and then it might be curtains. He gave everyone that we wanted, an ‘Eddie Goal’ in front of a home crowd. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 06:20:54 pm
How did we play?

Plenty of intensity, but a lack of composure and finish.

should have won by 90+
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 04, 2021, 06:27:39 pm
Plenty of intensity, but a lack of composure and finish.

should have won by 90+
After the fortnight we've had, Im not gonna be too critical, I just take a win any which way at this stage.
What I will say is that level of intensity MUST be repeated next week.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Lods on April 04, 2021, 06:31:39 pm
Provided exactly the response we wanted.
That's the benchmark, that's what they're capable of...it's what we need to see on a consistent basis.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 06:34:42 pm
After the fortnight we've had, Im not gonna be too critical, I just take a win any which way at this stage.
What I will say is that level of intensity MUST be repeated next week.


Yep, go missing again next week and we are back to being a joke.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: laj on April 04, 2021, 06:44:28 pm
Good win. Near every sides pulls the pin on pressure when 10 goals up in the 3rd qtr and the margin comes back, unless the opposition is absolutely woeful, like North and St.Kilda on the weekend.

That's a good win. We still have a few to come back. The fact we got 10 goals up pretty quick was a good sign.

They have to be reminded that this is the benchmark.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: shawny on April 04, 2021, 06:48:18 pm
Whether us fans believe it or not Plowman must be highly respected by the club. I hated his game last week and his attitude post match topped it off but thought he was one of our bets in Round 1

He again this week played a solid game on a very dangerous opponent.

When i saw him go to Walters I like many i guess thought omg this could get ugly fast but not this week. Walters first goal was from a soft free with his usual staging working and I think he only kicked one other so our man takes the points IMO.

Also he intercepted very well this week and foot skills were clean.  Fair is fair he cops it hard when he fails he should receive the praise when he has a game like today.  
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: cookie2 on April 04, 2021, 06:51:47 pm
Good win for us and done in the right way imo. I'm rapt for now but let's see if we can back it up next week. If we do I'll start to believe again.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 04, 2021, 06:52:08 pm
Plowman is definitely rated by the coaches - B+F top 5 finish twice, and top 10 once.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: laj on April 04, 2021, 06:52:52 pm
I’m happy.  Wanted it more. Walsh in a A grader. I said last week Harry is developing nicely. Cripps was hard at it and really liked Jack, Fogarty and Jones games today.
Parks looks ok and happy to win like that without much input from our new recruits in Williams and Saad.
Negative side is Dow looks unable to take the step needed. Too quick to feed off to players under the pump. Time to give stocker and Kennedy a ran of games.
We used Dow badly early in his career. Gave him all the tough jobs from the start rather than lesser roles for his development. Way to ruin a young player. Probably swap Stocker for him next week.

Gov in for Levi, who just didn't come into the season fit and needs a run in the twos to get his confidence back. Good player when confident, not much use to anyone when not. Just means Jones or McKay would have to relief ruck.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 06:55:59 pm
We used Dow badly early in his career. Gave him all the tough jobs from the start rather than lesser roles for his development. Way to ruin a young player. Probably swap Stocker for him next week.

Gov in for Levi, who just didn't come into the season fit and needs a run in the twos to get his confidence back. Good player when confident, not much use to anyone when not. Just means Jones or McKay would have to relief ruck.


Guv should come in but who backs up in the  ruck?

He makes us a better side, though granted he has been far from hs best since coming across...

Jones?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: laj on April 04, 2021, 07:01:29 pm
Guv should come in but who backs up in the  ruck?

He makes us a better side, though granted he has been far from his best since coming across...

Jones?
Have to be McKay or Jones.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: laj on April 04, 2021, 07:04:59 pm
Guv should come in but who backs up in the  ruck?

He makes us a better side, though granted he has been far from hs best since coming across...

Jones?
Finally Gov has pulled his finger out and got very fit, unlike the last 2 years. Looked the part yesterday. Might go better as 2nd tall banana up forward than 3rd. Plus he kicks straight. The rest of the taller forwards kick like dogs hind legs. JSOS being in the side seems to help our forward structure alot these days.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: laj on April 04, 2021, 07:14:01 pm
Fogarty's was certainly a steal.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Shakin77 on April 04, 2021, 07:20:06 pm
Gov in for Levi, who just didn't come into the season fit and needs a run in the twos to get his confidence back. Good player when confident, not much use to anyone when not. Just means Jones or McKay would have to relief ruck.

They won't do that.   It's Levi or Oscar until TDK returns.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: crashlander on April 04, 2021, 07:25:36 pm
I'd probably bring McDonald in for Levi, even though I haven't seen the match yet (I will shortly). Levi needs to get himself back into form. I'd play him at CHB in the twos, or even in the ones if Gold Coast had a 3rd tall forward. It would allow him to take some big marks and get some confidence back. Taking 15 or so marks at CHB would help his confidence a lot.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: shawny on April 04, 2021, 07:26:22 pm
Fogarty's was certainly a steal.

Agree. Finally we got a good one from the pussies.

Really like the look of this kid. Works hard both ways is tough and is a nice user for a kid.
His showed more in the 3 games he has played for us then most of our kids some
In their 5th season have.
If only we could develop like the better teams. Would be in our flag window now I reckon if that was the case. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Sexybronco on April 04, 2021, 07:27:21 pm
They won't do that.   It's Levi or Oscar until TDK returns.
Agree, McGovern only played 3 quarters yesterday so will need to show more over a whole game before being considered. Mind you Witt is out next week so the Gov could pinch hit in the ruck, the week after is against Port so would need a proper second Ruck then.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: rocky on April 04, 2021, 07:27:46 pm
There is no doubt McGovern will come in at Levis' expense, and surely he should. Can't see many more changes with this type of win, but gee Murphy is leading a charmed life.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: crashlander on April 04, 2021, 07:29:51 pm
Dow has disappointed now 3 weeks in a row. He needs to go back and get his pre-season form back. As to which mid should come in, I'd wait on the weather. It has been wet up there. Kennedy might be the answer.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Lods on April 04, 2021, 07:34:24 pm
Not sure how sustainable the game is under the new rules.
Players may have to go to another level of fitness.
Some of our players looked stuffed towards the end.
Especially Walsh, but he's a champion and he just kept on pushing himself.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 07:40:08 pm
Agree, McGovern only played 3 quarters yesterday so will need to show more over a whole game before being considered. Mind you Witt is out next week so the Gov could pinch hit in the ruck, the week after is against Port so would need a proper second Ruck then.

Dow has disappointed now 3 weeks in a row. He needs to go back and get his pre-season form back. As to which mid should come in, I'd wait on the weather. It has been wet up there. Kennedy might be the answer.


he's off the pace.

needs to prove himself in the 2s....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: JonDorotich on April 04, 2021, 07:43:15 pm
Good response and great to get a first win

H, Fog, Walsh and Jones clearly best this evening

Silvagni makes us a three-four goal better side and just finds a way to make a contest every time - whilst slow by foot, he’s a great reader of the play and makes intelligent decisions. 

Parks showed us that he can play a role on an opponent’s third tall and looked comfortable, albeit Freo’s pressure was poor.

SPS provided glimpses of why he should be in the middle of the ground - his body is much stronger than previous years and he’s now able to move through tackles. Why we haven’t worked out that Cottrell (an upgrade on Setters on exposed early season form) can play back and SPS through the middle is mind boggling.

Crippa willed his way into the contest but remains a long way from his best and all of Docherty, Saad & Williams also have much more upside, which is a good sign.

However we’re still carrying a few that won’t cut the mustard against better sides - Murphy, Casboult, Newnes, Curnow and Plowman. We can probably get away with 2 of these but not all 5. Cas is hard to replace without upsetting the Ruck rotation, but he’s really struggling. Over the next couple of weeks I’d like to see Stocker Williamson, Cunningham, Honey all getting a go and let’s hope that we can get Dekoning back soon!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Shakin77 on April 04, 2021, 07:46:01 pm
Dow has disappointed now 3 weeks in a row. He needs to go back and get his pre-season form back. As to which mid should come in, I'd wait on the weather. It has been wet up there. Kennedy might be the answer.

Give him some serious minutes in the middle in the VFL.

Kennedy is the player most likely as he can play forward and mid which is what Dow has been doing.

Shame Honey and Durdin are a little under done as Eddie is struggling to get near it.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: JonDorotich on April 04, 2021, 07:51:22 pm

he's off the pace.

needs to prove himself in the 2s....

I’d persist with Dow
He’s in the thick of it and getting to the right spots, just needs time and confidence
I’d be moving on Newnes and Murphy well before Dow
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 07:52:01 pm
Betts was good
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: JonDorotich on April 04, 2021, 07:54:00 pm
Betts was good

Agree, far from our worst tonight
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Lods on April 04, 2021, 07:58:12 pm
Silvagni needs to play the next 35 games. ;)

Seriously, he's one player who has taken the next step this year.
Gives 100% effort.
His forward pressure is really good (always has been) but...
He is starting to break tackles or stand up in them and get the ball clear.
...and surprisingly looks to have gained a yard in pace.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Shakin77 on April 04, 2021, 08:03:47 pm
Agree, far from our worst tonight

3 kicks, 1 Handball, 2 Tackles.    Great goal yes, but I certainly wouldn't be calling that good for a small forward in side that had 29 scoring shots.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Lods on April 04, 2021, 08:10:36 pm
Betts is an interesting one.
I missed the first half of the first quarter
Apart from his goal and attempted high flyer I didn't notice him much.
What he does provide is really good pressure in the forward line...and he takes a player who needs to keep a close watch on him.
I suspect he may also do a bit of organising in the forward half.

Is that enough?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 08:10:56 pm
3 kicks, 1 Handball, 2 Tackles.    Great goal yes, but I certainly wouldn't be calling that good for a small forward in side that had 29 scoring shots.


Laughable comment.

A small forward feeds when the ball hits the deck....

everything went harry's way - who should have kicked 12.

There simply wasn't enough crumb for any small foward/
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 04, 2021, 08:11:28 pm
Cripps was back to his best I thought.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 04, 2021, 08:11:36 pm
Silvagni needs to play the next 35 games. ;)

Seriously, he's one player who has taken the next step this year.
Gives 100% effort.
His forward pressure is really good (always has been) but...
He is starting to break tackles or stand up in them and get the ball clear.
...and surprisingly looks to have gained a yard in pace.

Yes agree. Not sure if he's faster or the same, but he's a pure footballer, as I've stated before. Love him on the park.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 04, 2021, 08:11:46 pm
Guv should come in but who backs up in the  ruck?

He makes us a better side, though granted he has been far from hs best since coming across...

Jones?
Leave Jones in the backline, gotta get that back 6 settled and playing in unison. Leave H fwd as he is the man and not a ruck (part time or other wise). Levi ether crashes and bashes with Pitto or OMac does. Dow can make way for Gov providing Gov has enough km in the legs, no rushing players in for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 04, 2021, 08:13:07 pm
Chris Judd said the small forward is the hardest role to play these days. You do a lot of unrewarded chasing and no one kicks to you.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 04, 2021, 08:14:41 pm
Loved Cotrell's game, he's just a competitor.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 04, 2021, 08:15:19 pm
3 kicks, 1 Handball, 2 Tackles.    Great goal yes, but I certainly wouldn't be calling that good for a small forward in side that had 29 scoring shots.

Yes, it was good seeing him out there, and I'm not sure you could say he played badly per se, but he was very much a minor player I thought. He either didn't do much, or didn't have much to do.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 08:17:44 pm
Leave Jones in the backline, gotta get that back 6 settled and playing in unison. Leave H fwd as he is the man and not a ruck (part time or other wise). Levi ether crashes and bashes with Pitto or OMac does. Dow can make way for Gov providing Gov has enough km in the legs, no rushing players in for the sake of it.

Can't argue that....Jones was elite today.

But if Guv for Levi happens, someone needs to spend time as a back up ruck....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 08:18:56 pm
Yes, it was good seeing him out there, and I'm not sure you could say he played badly per se, but he was very much a minor player I thought. He either didn't do much, or didn't have much to do.

Betts is better than Fisher by some margin as a small forward....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: laj on April 04, 2021, 08:19:13 pm
Leave Jones in the backline, gotta get that back 6 settled and playing in unison. Leave H fwd as he is the man and not a ruck (part time or other wise). Levi ether crashes and bashes with Pitto or OMac does. Dow can make way for Gov providing Gov has enough km in the legs, no rushing players in for the sake of it.

Jones went really well in the ruck before his recall a few years ago. Ran around like a madman killing opposition players, taking marks, getting a heap of touches and even kicking goals. Levi's not fit so right now he's essentially just a 2nd tap ruck. Whether it be Jones or Harry it's just a few minutes a qtr. The day Charlie comes back we'll have no choice anyway as he'd likely replace Levi.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Raydan on April 04, 2021, 08:20:15 pm
Good solid team game, no real brilliance but a 45 point win, playing a bruising style. I don't see why we would change the team at all, sure we may have had some quite players, but I saw someone write that Newnes should be dropped, I don't understand why 23 disposals, none overly flashy, but provided a nice link player to help get the handball chains going. Can't see how you'd drop Newnes.

I also fell through the floor when I saw that someone said Williamson needs to come back in, WHY? He's been crap this season and Parks did more in his first game that Willo has this season.

As for dropping Plowman, who's going to be that defender who goes to the best small or mid. Sure he got beat last week, but we had just one AFL listed defender playing in the VFL this week in Williamson, who was playing worse and could shut down anybody, cause he wear roller skates and slips over continually. When you've finished so high in the B&F for continual years, you will get the chance to redeem yourself, which I though Plowman did today, 10 marks and 21 poss with 327 meters gained.

As mentioned Fogarty is a great get, possibly the best of all three or at least an equal to. 25 disposals, 7 tackles, 3 clearances, 440 meters gained playing mainly as a HFF, plus his lowering of the eyes was outstanding. He's a 200 gamer.

Harry won't get it much easier than that, ball coming in low and fast, with a third rate backman on him who gave up front position all day long. It a shame that he only got 7 goals, Harry has to kick the left hand side of the field goals where he can't snap round the corner.

I got into Cripps last week, this week credit where it's due, he was much better, and he also did the hand over to a HFF on occasions, he played well as a forward and straight kicking shows there is some future in attack on a more regular basis. 34 Poss, 11 clearances and 2 goals. But they had a better balance across the centre with starting square of Cripps, Williams and Ed, with Walsh on the wing who had to be best on ground today 37 touches with 4 tackles and they were hard possessions.

Jones was outstanding down back, playing his own game, Gibbons was very good as well, same with Jack. It was a team win.

The first half especially reminded me of a Richmond type playing style, running in numbers and just the will to get the ball forward any way and arriving in number at every contest, get it to the right player to kick it forward.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Shakin77 on April 04, 2021, 08:25:38 pm

Laughable comment.

A small forward feeds when the ball hits the deck....

everything went harry's way - who should have kicked 12.

There simply wasn't enough crumb for any small foward/

What crap.   Levi and Harry early dropped plenty of marks early.   We scrapped plenty of goals from inside 50's.

Murphy who everyone wants gone was 78% forward, had 6 score involvements, 12 touches and kicked 1.1

Eddie was underdone and had 4 touches for the game.     In the worst 4 on the ground for the Blues

Long term Durdin and Honey will offer more.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Shakin77 on April 04, 2021, 08:31:12 pm
Newnes plays wing and works pretty hard defensively.   Named in our best Round 1 and good again today.   Strange comment to call for him to be dropped
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: shawny on April 04, 2021, 08:37:04 pm
What crap.   Levi and Harry early dropped plenty of marks early.   We scrapped plenty of goals from inside 50's.

Murphy who everyone wants gone was 78% forward, had 6 score involvements, 12 touches and kicked 1.1

Eddie was underdone and had 4 touches for the game.     In the worst 4 on the ground for the Blues

Long term Durdin and Honey will offer more.

Agree. Love Eddie but he is only going to be used when we have injuries. Shouldn’t get a game if fisher is available.
In the meantime I would prefer to see Cunningham given a block of games.

I mean if Cunningham played eddies game today (4 touches and one goal) most would say it’s not enough.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 04, 2021, 09:09:06 pm
What crap.   Levi and Harry early dropped plenty of marks early.   We scrapped plenty of goals from inside 50's.

Murphy who everyone wants gone was 78% forward, had 6 score involvements, 12 touches and kicked 1.1

Eddie was underdone and had 4 touches for the game.     In the worst 4 on the ground for the Blues

Long term Durdin and Honey will offer more.

First game back, put plenty of pressure on....did his job.

stats mean jack sometimes.

you should know better.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 04, 2021, 09:26:48 pm
Good win but I'm a hard marker and Freo are rubbish. Its was a poor standard game IMO and while I thought we had some good players it wasnt a dominant crushing victory that had me willing to say we are back on track. Happy to get a win and the four points but plenty of improvement needed IMO.
My thoughts on a few players:
Docherty.....really good IMO, I thought he was back to his best and showed a lot of courage going back in flight with the ball
and it was his best game of the season.
Jones...BOG imo, took a heap of marks, smothered Taberner and was the rock down back.
Plowman...ok, Walters looked short of fitness and wasnt at his best but I'd call Plowman serviceable.
Weitering....did what he had to do, nothing outstanding required, Darcy was the other KP Forward and is a ruckman so his forward craft is limited and JW did his job.
Parks.....some good marks, kicking is a bit ropey with that two handed ball drop but he puts himself in and it was a decent debut.
Saad...class above most on the ground, handled the ball well and makes good decisions, very happy to have him onboard.
Newnes...continues to perform and  was solid again...
Cripps....best game for the season and looked better for the longer break. Got targeted and reminded me of Chris Judd with shoulder tape flapping but stood up well as Freo tried to upset him, one of our best today.
Cottrell.....like him in the team, he is better than LOB, Dow, Cuningham and a few others, he goes hard, plays within his limitations
and gives you a contest. Wont give you 30 possies but will give you tackles and chase like he means it which is important .
Jack....ditto to Cottrell, nothing pretty about the way Jack plays but we all know he has a go and will give you effort.
Levi.....not great, Freo have a midget backline but he didnt really trouble them and his kicking has gone backwards, as a part time ruck he is so so.
Eddie....quicker game doesnt suit those old legs and he cant get the take off for the Liam Ryan speccy either anymore.
He is cooked but while Fisher and Martin are out he has to play and he does take a good player to mind him.
Murphy...couple of good things but just treading water in the team IMO.
Harry... had a day out playing on the Freo little defenders....Cox is 194cm and Ryan 186cm so Harry did what Harry should do and that was out mark them easily...one of our best and could have kicked ten.
Pittonet....thought he was good...Meek and Darcy are big inexperienced kids but he looked in control and was a steady player all day.
Ed Curnow....typical Ed game, very serviceable.
Walsh....racked up the possies and was his usual consistent self, as with most Walsh games there isnt much to criticise other than his ball use by foot which could have been better.
SPS...interesting player as always, got plenty of ball , gave us some run, used it ok but why do I remain unconvinced?
Gibbons.....was ok, got plenty of ball and used it well most times, didnt have much to crumb up forward with Harry clunking everything and another reasonable game..
Dow...not great but I'd keep persisting with him, looks panicky with ball in hand and needs a big breakout game....
Fogarty.. Great, plenty of ball, used it well, goals and looks like a steal from the Cats.
Williams.. Got Injured and wasn't a factor..

I wouldnt make too many changes and would leave Levi in the team, be a No to McGovern coming back, prefer our present setup and he hasnt earned the right yet to be an automatic based on 3 goals vs a very ordinary Williamstown lineup.
Eddie stays in also....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 04, 2021, 09:33:56 pm
I wouldnt make too many changes and would leave Levi in the team, be a No to McGovern coming back, prefer our present setup and he hasnt earned the right yet to be an automatic based on 3 goals vs a very ordinary Williamstown lineup.
Eddie stays in also....
Yes, subject to recovery I agree no changes.

I too think the win is not as good as the stats and scoreboard might suggest, but hopefully it helps a few find confidence and form. Jones, Doc and Cripps in particular.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Milhanna13 on April 04, 2021, 09:35:30 pm
Only saw the extended highlights and not the whole game. But does seem like it’s a slightly easier game when you actually get paid a free or 2, especially in front of goal.
I reckon we got our first couple of holding the balls for the year and H his first couple of frees for the year.
Now they just have to do it for us v the tigs or the hawks or the pies

Good to see a 7 goal win where we really didn’t hit top gear.

Hopefully this last couple of weeks is the start of something huge for H (if he could start kicking straight, even better)
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 04, 2021, 10:08:49 pm
Generally agree with Elwood. Freo had a few big men unavailable and were down on rotations in game due to injuries. They had the better of us for some of the 3rd and the last. I wouldn't be getting carried away just yet.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Micky0 on April 04, 2021, 10:41:48 pm
I don’t think anyone’s getting carried away but confidence is huge, and wins build confidence so I dont care how we get them, but the bigger the win the better!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Thryleon on April 04, 2021, 11:23:13 pm
That was the most disappointing big win ive ever witnessed.

Kudos to Harry for kicking 7, should have kicked 10.

Leaked some scrappy goals.

Took the foot off the throat and took us half the first quarter to get going.

Don't get me wrong im happy to have won, but a proper side would have done what the bulldogs did to North on good Friday.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: DJC on April 04, 2021, 11:45:29 pm
We used Dow badly early in his career. Gave him all the tough jobs from the start rather than lesser roles for his development. Way to ruin a young player. Probably swap Stocker for him next week.

Gov in for Levi, who just didn't come into the season fit and needs a run in the twos to get his confidence back. Good player when confident, not much use to anyone when not. Just means Jones or McKay would have to relief ruck.


That's a recipe for disaster!

I wouldn't be promoting McGovern on the basis of average form in a VFL practice match.  I also wouldn't be undervaluing Casboult's contribution as back up ruckman and foil for Harry ... and he made a mess of a couple of Freo players.

I thought Dow was OK too and he was set up with a couple of hospital handpasses.  I'd like to see Stocker get a run  but, once again, patchy form in a VFL practice match shouldn't be enough to displace Dow.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: RiverRat on April 04, 2021, 11:54:27 pm
Whether us fans believe it or not Plowman must be highly respected by the club. I hated his game last week and his attitude post match topped it off but thought he was one of our bets in Round 1

He again this week played a solid game on a very dangerous opponent.

When i saw him go to Walters I like many i guess thought omg this could get ugly fast but not this week. Walters first goal was from a soft free with his usual staging working and I think he only kicked one other so our man takes the points IMO.

Also he intercepted very well this week and foot skills were clean.  Fair is fair he cops it hard when he fails he should receive the praise when he has a game like today.  
I also thought he was one of our best against the Tiggers and I think he is a good player. 

He isn't super-tall or super-fast or super-anything but he is consistently given jobs that test his capabilities and he is too often exposed when played in the last line of defence because he tends to panic and grab. Whenever he gets a bit further up the ground he looks poised and can contribute offensively.

Maybe Oscar McD could be used in defence to allow Plowman to play more at HB and shift SPS out of defence.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: RiverRat on April 05, 2021, 12:03:10 am
Jones went really well in the ruck before his recall a few years ago. Ran around like a madman killing opposition players, taking marks, getting a heap of touches and even kicking goals.
That was against VFL opposition - I wouldn't risk him.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: RiverRat on April 05, 2021, 12:04:51 am
Betts is better than Fisher by some margin as a small forward....

WAS not IS.  I really like old man Eddie but I doubt we can carry him and Murph in the same team.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: RiverRat on April 05, 2021, 12:20:25 am
Great game from Jones but was well suited against a slower opponent. It is a shame that Jones and Weiters are both better suited to playing in space at HB than on the last line - maybe Oscar McD could be given a chance to resurrect his career down back to free them (and Plowman) to less defensive roles.

When he is ready, it will be interesting to see if the Gov can make a decent fist of playing as a leading forward now that there seems to be more room in which to lead.

I think Dow has improved but he often fails to take the ball cleanly on the first grab and can hold it too long. He suffers by comparison to Walsh who has such quick and clean hands.

Parks was good - kicking style is ungainly but, apart from one absolute shocker, he displayed nice touch when passing and roosted it a long way when he tried to. His defensive spoils were decisive as well.

Its amazing how much easier it all is when you win the centre clearances.  Freo was poor but a win is a win.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on April 05, 2021, 01:23:20 am
Harry kicked 7 because Betts ran blocking patterns for him on every lead sacrificing his own game ,he was always smart with his pressure acts and tackled when others stood back and watched. He contributed not with possessions but one per centers and smarts.
What a difference in having a contribution from a natural wingman in Cotterell defending,attacking and linking not setterfield who has no clue how to play there.
Williamson won’t play again unless we have more injuries Parks took marks, punched when he had to and was deceptively faster than I thought and he bled every mistake he played a bit what I thought marchbank was going to be but actually finished a game uninjured .
Silvagni’s attack and desire is never in doubt but really needs to kick the easy goals to be a star too many lazy set shots but I wish others had his tenacity he deserves his spot every week on grit.
Good to win but other teams looked better, sharper and kicked goals not points when surging Freo lookedlike a team that’s rudderless without Fyffe and spent all the petrol tickets last week in the heat. Been warm here in Perth even for training, a really sapping muggy heat and they looked it
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: JonDorotich on April 05, 2021, 05:30:35 am
Good solid team game, no real brilliance but a 45 point win, playing a bruising style. I don't see why we would change the team at all, sure we may have had some quite players, but I saw someone write that Newnes should be dropped, I don't understand why 23 disposals, none overly flashy, but provided a nice link player to help get the handball chains going. Can't see how you'd drop Newnes.

I also fell through the floor when I saw that someone said Williamson needs to come back in, WHY? He's been crap this season and Parks did more in his first game that Willo has this season.

As for dropping Plowman, who's going to be that defender who goes to the best small or mid. Sure he got beat last week, but we had just one AFL listed defender playing in the VFL this week in Williamson, who was playing worse and could shut down anybody, cause he wear roller skates and slips over continually. When you've finished so high in the B&F for continual years, you will get the chance to redeem yourself, which I though Plowman did today, 10 marks and 21 poss with 327 meters gained.

As mentioned Fogarty is a great get, possibly the best of all three or at least an equal to. 25 disposals, 7 tackles, 3 clearances, 440 meters gained playing mainly as a HFF, plus his lowering of the eyes was outstanding. He's a 200 gamer.

Harry won't get it much easier than that, ball coming in low and fast, with a third rate backman on him who gave up front position all day long. It a shame that he only got 7 goals, Harry has to kick the left hand side of the field goals where he can't snap round the corner.

I got into Cripps last week, this week credit where it's due, he was much better, and he also did the hand over to a HFF on occasions, he played well as a forward and straight kicking shows there is some future in attack on a more regular basis. 34 Poss, 11 clearances and 2 goals. But they had a better balance across the centre with starting square of Cripps, Williams and Ed, with Walsh on the wing who had to be best on ground today 37 touches with 4 tackles and they were hard possessions.

Jones was outstanding down back, playing his own game, Gibbons was very good as well, same with Jack. It was a team win.

The first half especially reminded me of a Richmond type playing style, running in numbers and just the will to get the ball forward any way and arriving in number at every contest, get it to the right player to kick it forward.

Good note

I suggested that it will be hard to accommodate more than 2 of Newnes, Casboult, Murphy, Plowman & Curnow against the better sides. And I also suggested that I’d prefer to drop Murphy or Newnes rather than Dow.

All of the above can be more than serviceable on their day but they all have limited upside and with the exception of Murphy are all prone to making poor decisions under pressure at critical times, so I’d prefer to invest our time in younger players that may also make a mistake or two but that could take the next step and make us a much better side - Williamson, Dow, Stocker, Honey are all good examples.

Casboult is the most difficult of that group to replace as he is so important to us structurally until TDK returns.

Also I’m sure Williamson would also have given a great account of himself against a very weak Freo side and we shouldn’t compare form against Coll and Rich vs Freo.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 05, 2021, 07:37:35 am
WAS not IS.  I really like old man Eddie but I doubt we can carry him and Murph in the same team.
If the team keeps performing and players in the reserves dominate and put their hand up, we will really see competition for spots heat up. Many players will be disappointed. I wouldn't change much this week vs GC, that said the MC will probably make 6 ;D Horses for course I know but if it aint broke, don't fix it.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Lods on April 05, 2021, 07:51:37 am
There seems to be a general satisfaction with the performance, but it's still tinged with a fair bit of caution.
That probably stems from the fact that Fremantle were pretty awful.

We need to see a good follow-up effort, and probably a win against a better team before folks start to feel more comfortable.

Some really good individual efforts yesterday.
McKay is going to be a real concern for opposition coaches.
Walsh is going like a train...only concern is under the new rules whether he can sustain it for a full season....ran his guts out yesterday but even exhausted he kept going (may need a bit of management as the season progresses).
Liked Parks' first game and he'll only be better for the run and I like the energy Cottrell brings.
Fogarty...great pick-up. He's the kind of 'soldier' great sides are built on.
As I mentioned earlier Silvagni has taken a step forward this year. He looks stronger and a little quicker....that's what we need to see with 'development'. It's what we need to see with players like Dow and LOB...that step forward each season.
Cripps was back to what he does best, and monstered Freo.

Something that is really noticeable, and sometimes forgotten...players are often criticised for poor performances, but often it's the make-up of the opposition that dictates whether they will have a good day  or a shocker.
Players match up better against different sides. Jones was really good yesterday....he had the match-ups that suited him.
Last week McKay did OK against one of the better defenders in the comp but was probably beaten on the day. Yesterday Freo had no answer to him.
That also goes for teams.
Freo was a good match-up for us yesterday. ;D

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: cookie2 on April 05, 2021, 08:21:30 am
Parkes and Cotters definitely deserve another game next week. It's a question of who made a pressing case for selection in the VFL to displace anyone imo. Didn't see that game, maybe someone who did could comment? The only change I would consider is Paddy Dow but maybe we need to persevere with him for another game or two? It could be just a confidence thing.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 05, 2021, 08:25:25 am
There seems to be a general satisfaction with the performance, but it's still tinged with a fair bit of caution.
That probably stems from the fact that Fremantle were pretty awful.

We need to see a good follow-up effort, and probably a win against a better team before folks start to feel more comfortable.

Some really good individual efforts yesterday.
McKay is going to be a real concern for opposition coaches.
Walsh is going like a train...only concern is under the new rules whether he can sustain it for a full season....ran his guts out yesterday but even exhausted he kept going (may need a bit of management as the season progresses).
Liked Parks' first game and he'll only be better for the run and I like the energy Cottrell brings.
Fogarty...great pick-up. He's the kind of 'soldier' great sides are built on.
As I mentioned earlier Silvagni has taken a step forward this year. He looks stronger and a little quicker....that's what we need to see with 'development'. It's what we need to see with players like Dow and LOB...that step forward each season.
Cripps was back to what he does best, and monstered Freo.

Something that is really noticeable, and sometimes forgotten...players are often criticised for poor performances, but often it's the make-up of the opposition that dictates whether they will have a good day  or a shocker.
Players match up better against different sides. Jones was really good yesterday....he had the match-ups that suited him.
Last week McKay did OK against one of the better defenders in the comp but was probably beaten on the day. Yesterday Freo had no answer to him.
That also goes for teams.
Freo was a good match-up for us yesterday. ;D


I think they did what we needed to do against an opposition that have troubled us in the past regardless of personnel available. It will give our players some confidence, hopefully not overconfidence though. What was drummed into them during the week was the work rate, agressiveness and effort required, that's probably what they mainly got out of it. Execution is still a problem at times, that will improve with confidence as long as the effort, agressiveness and intensity are there.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: kruddler on April 05, 2021, 08:29:28 am
If there are any changes after that, it might be Williams who might be injured.

Levis only saving grace when when his shear bulk caused an injury to freo after he dove into a pack. Did not much else from there. Still reckon Oscar could offer the same and more.

Parks showed more in that game than I've seen from LOB in all his. Pleasant surprise.

You can see why players like Cottrell and Silvagni were brought in, and why people have been calling for them to be in. It changes the way we play
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 05, 2021, 09:18:46 am
WAS not IS.  I really like old man Eddie but I doubt we can carry him and Murph in the same team.

I'll agree to disagree.

I rate Fisher, but still prefer him in the middle personally.

Teague mentioned the blocking work done by Betts on behalf of the key forwards, Harry in particular.

EB1 suggests Betts is cooked. Just don't see any evidence for that. There were a lot of pressure acts last night and the goal was a stark reminder of what he can do - off both feet.

He was our fastest measured player last year, in game.

Sure, the ball didn't fall his way much last night but he did plenty without ball in hand.

I tend to agree it's Betts or Murphy too.

But like Fisher, would prefer to see whether Murph can still be an influential midfielder....

He's got time to cement a spot if Fisher is sidelined for 6 weeks or so. We'll see.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Baggers on April 05, 2021, 09:22:02 am
I thought it was important that The TT, in his after match media conference, mentioned that he was pleased with 3 quarters of our effort - having the game on our terms, the way we wish to play. The little lapses in the 3rd and final qtr should not go by unnoticed - against better opposition those lapses could easily have turned into one of the 4-7 consecutive goals against, scenarios.

Although not dominant by any stretch, I think if folks look closely at Edwardo's contribution you'll see considerable defensive pressure and defensive acts that prevented Freo from leaving our forward line and made our forward line a lot more dangerous.

I am not in the pro Levi camp. The ball bounced of his hands too often and we've seen this loss of confidence before, and it does cost us.

The Murphy offensive game was serviceable, but his total lack of defensive pressure and pressure acts does cost us. How long can we carry this? Are we that good we can carry a defensive pressure deficit?

SOJ is such an important part of the forward line. Footy smarts / IQ easily outweighs any perceived lack of pace. So valuable. He also brings that intangible 'energy', as does Cottrell. Opponents can't snuff that out and it does lift those around them.

Parks showed plenty that should encourage us all.

Fogarty - welcome. Barring injury, your name will end up on a locker at PP. Ripper.

Dow? Something just aint there. Will it come in time? Who knows.

Jones - one of his best.

I think Saad and Williams are still settling in and will only get better, much better. And they're already pretty bloody good!!!

Glad to see Crippa play with a bit of sh1te on his liver, bring that each week big fella and opponents will be filling their durps. You might just be one of those blokes who needs to play a little angry.

Gibbo really should be given more midfield time. Good to see Ed lift. Pitto provides a tough contest and knows his limitations... I confess to being a bit of a fan of the big fella - great attitude.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: sydneybluesfan on April 05, 2021, 09:30:28 am
I thought we were very good upto the middle of the third quarter, and then we took our foot off the gas and started to make dumb decisions with ball in hand and we let them back into the game. For the last quarter and a half it was pretty ordinary footy, but the game was won.

For a team in our position you would love to see us win that game by 80-100 points which I felt we probably should have, such was the gap between the 2 teams.

The biggest issue for me was Levi - he was putrid again imo. If he wasn't playing McKay would have kicked 12 - but Levi often leads his man too where McKay is leading rather than blocking or providing a dummy lead to provide more space for Harry. Against such an under manned defence he really should be doing damage in his own right, but he was very poor. Up until 3qtr time when the game was actually there to be won he had 5 possessions and went at 41% DE overall.

He looks unfit and jogs around the forward line most of the time in the wrong spot. Off the back of his first 2 weeks I would not have played him and I can't see why McDonald isn't given a chance to show whether he can give us more than Levi can.

I love Eddie - but I reckon he will get 2-3 games to prove he can still cut it. Yesterday he was next to invisible - did a couple of nice things and he is always thinking about how to create opportunities for others as much as himself, but when we were dominating against a poor opposition in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs he touched the ball once [which was a great goal]. From a team balance perspective I am not convinced that he and Murphy can both play.

Also impressed with Parks because I think he can be an important link between the talls and the smaller running players. He was desperate and pretty composed with ball in hand and didn't panic [which has been a hallmark of our defence for some time]. Doc played a much better game yesterday, as did Plow and Jones, so that's a tick for the setup. We are still poor as a defence at communicating and working together which is frustrating at this level - the number of times we spoil each other or have 2/3/4 up in a marking contest [look at their goal middway thru the last when all 4 of Plow, Jones, Weiters and Parks flew in a pack and all of them ended up on the ground and the Freo guys walked into open goal] is incredible. The lack of communication from the smaller defenders to call guys in or out is really poor and they need to get that sorted quick smart.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: crashlander on April 05, 2021, 10:20:27 am
I was very happy with the way we played in the 1st half. We lacked a little poise at time, but the aggression was there. It simply wasn't there against Collingwood.

I was quite pleased with Eddie's game in the first half. He got most of his possessions then. He really was the General down there and his defensive pressure was excellent. I couldn't believe it when he had so few tackles.

H: if he can ever learn to kick straight ...

I think the biggest difference between Paddy Dow at the moment and Walsh is Walsh's clean ball handling. Paddy fumbles too much. Another thing is work rate. Walsh gets where the ball is, or where it is going. Paddy's still working on that.
I think Dow has improved this season. He needs a really big game and the confidence that brings to take the next step.
That said, I'd still be tempted to have him get a run in the VFL and have another mid come in. Conditions on the Gold Coast would suit a guy like Kennedy. Maybe we might give one of the others a game.

For all of the improvement in the way we attacked the ball, I still wish we could be that bit harder, like Richmond. They push the rules and get away with it. We need to do that too. Similarly, the way Sydney played on the weekend impressed me.

I thought Cottrell was good, especially as he came in at the last minute. Park showed a bit, and he was confident to go for his marks.

Pittonet was good yesterday and we smashed Freo in the midfield, but it did show our relative weakness in that area. Levi didn't get many taps and doesn't look 100%. He competed hard enough, and flew for his marks, but it just isn't happening for him at the moment. If Witts doesn't play next week we might be able to give Levi some time in the VFL to get some form and fitness.
I was quite surprised at how much Lloyd Meek has improved as a ruckman. He never used to get off the ground playing for GWV. He got his hands on the ball quite a lot. I would have loved to have a ruck like Tom de Koning against him, as Tom is so much more mobile. But, if wishes were horses, we'd be up to our necks in horse Kaka.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LoveNavy on April 05, 2021, 10:24:58 am
Didn't think we'd win this game as I've been underwhelmed with team performance r1 and2.

Very glad to be wrong and a win is a confidence builder. Still lots to work on but happy for a W. Hopefully we can put 22 fit tenacious boys on the deck next week.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: laj on April 05, 2021, 10:34:16 am
That's a recipe for disaster!

I wouldn't be promoting McGovern on the basis of average form in a VFL practice match.  I also wouldn't be undervaluing Casboult's contribution as back up ruckman and foil for Harry ... and he made a mess of a couple of Freo players.

I thought Dow was OK too and he was set up with a couple of hospital handpasses.  I'd like to see Stocker get a run  but, once again, patchy form in a VFL practice match shouldn't be enough to displace Dow.

Both have done it with both before without issues. Going to have to do it when Charlie comes back anyway later in the year. Jones relished it in the VFL crushing bodies and enjoying a free run around the ground. It's for a few min a qtr. Levi is out of form, come into the season underdone. Gov is finally fit and looked the part on the weekend. Willy has been a top VFL side for years. Stocker was up with out best Saturday.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: laj on April 05, 2021, 10:41:44 am
That was against VFL opposition - I wouldn't risk him.
That's where you show you can do it. It's just a few min a qtr.

Charlie will come back later in the year, then we won't have a choice as I doubt Levi will be playing when he does. One of Jones or McKay, or both, will have to relief ruck a few min a qtr.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 05, 2021, 12:52:57 pm
Matthew Lloyd on Access All Areas making a big call (by his own admission) - reckons Liam Jones might be our best player.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: DJC on April 05, 2021, 12:56:12 pm
The Murphy offensive game was serviceable, but his total lack of defensive pressure and pressure acts does cost us. How long can we carry this? Are we that good we can carry a defensive pressure deficit?

SOJ is such an important part of the forward line. Footy smarts / IQ easily outweighs any perceived lack of pace. So valuable. He also brings that intangible 'energy', as does Cottrell. Opponents can't snuff that out and it does lift those around them.

Murph and Jack both had two tackles, as did Levi, Eddie and Gibbons.  Four players had one tackle and four didn't manage a tackle for the game.  To some extent that's understandable as we had so much more of the ball.

Murph's defensive effort in the back pocket, and some gut running, ended up with him slotting a goal at the other end.  That is great leadership by example.  Three marks inside 50, one tackle inside 50 and six score involvements was a pretty solid effort.  However, I would like to see him spend more time in the midfield.

Jack had a great game but he really has to work on his goal kicking.  Missing sitters when you're well in front doesn't have much impact but it can be a coach killer when you're battling to make up a deficit.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 01:04:54 pm
Murphy shirked the contest right in front of us, everyone saw it. His time is up.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 05, 2021, 01:07:00 pm
Murphy shirked the contest right in front of us, everyone saw it. His time is up.
Is that when the ball was kicked over his head and he ran with the flight to the disputed drop, if so which time / qtr?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 01:11:42 pm
Is that when the ball was kicked over his head and he ran with the flight to the disputed drop?

There were two incidents in the same position where everyone was yelling he crapped himself. The first one was completely justified, the second was an odd bounce and our fans were harsh on him because of what happened prior.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 05, 2021, 01:12:40 pm
There were two incidents in the same position where everyone was yelling he crapped himself. The first one was completely justified, the second was an odd bounce and our fans were harsh on him because of what happened prior.
When was it, which qtr?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 01:13:39 pm
When was it, which qtr?

3rd I think.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 05, 2021, 01:21:14 pm
If it's on the replay I'll try to get some clips up so we can see it.

I recall twice in the space of 5 mins that we kicked the ball over his head when Freo had a run on, both times the ball pitched in between sMurph and Freo opponents.

On the first occasion I think the bounce favoured the Freo player who took the ball and was then tackled front on by sMurph.

The second time I think the bounce went straight up and the Freo opponent was being wrestled by a Carlton player coming the same way(SoJ?) and sMurph tried to tap the ball sideways to nearby team-mate.

I wouldn't call either shirking the contest.

Perhaps the fans have been drinking too much of Malthouse's bathwater after he labelled sMurph soft during the week. All that media commentary proves is Malthouse is weak as piss and doesn't stand by his own words of having the players back!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: DJC on April 05, 2021, 01:24:11 pm
Both have done it with both before without issues. Going to have to do it when Charlie comes back anyway later in the year. Jones relished it in the VFL crushing bodies and enjoying a free run around the ground. It's for a few min a qtr. Levi is out of form, come into the season underdone. Gov is finally fit and looked the part on the weekend. Willy has been a top VFL side for years. Stocker was up with out best Saturday.

Yes both can ruck, just not very well.  Cripps takes more forward 50 ruck contests than Harry (not that I really want to see Cripps in ruck contests).

More importantly, who takes the opposition's key forwards when Jones is in the ruck? And who becomes our forward focus when Harry is rucking?  Both Jones and McKay are such vital cogs in our goal to goal line that we can't afford to use them elsewhere.

McDonald doesn't have much idea of ruckwork and gives away far too much size to most of the second string rucks.  Casboult is at least competitive against genuine ruckmen.

Depending on match ups, I reckon that we will play two of Pittonet, Casboult and De Koning in most games.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: DJC on April 05, 2021, 01:26:17 pm
Perhaps the fans have been drinking too much of Malthouse's bathwater after he labelled sMurph soft during the week. All that media commentary proves is Malthouse is weak as piss and doesn't stand by his own words of having the players back!

It was interesting to hear Brendan Goddard's response to Malthouse's article.  I'm paraphrasing but it was along the lines of "absolute garbage".
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: shawny on April 05, 2021, 01:27:49 pm
Matthew Lloyd on Access All Areas making a big call (by his own admission) - reckons Liam Jones might be our best player.

Is that for this week?

One week ago his collogue on Sunday Footy show labelled Jones as to one of the reasons we wont make it with our list.

A week later we are told he is our best player. 

Media have no credibility at all.    
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 05, 2021, 01:32:26 pm
Is that for this week?

One week ago his collogue on Sunday Footy show labelled Jones as to one of the reasons we wont make it with our list.

A week later we are told he is our best player. 

Media have no credibility at all.    

Yes, no doubt. He didn't specify, and it wasn't clear from the context whether he meant this week, this season or generally. I'm guessing he meant this season, but I have no way of knowing for sure. I'm sure his bro would be passing him some choice information, and Lloyd may have just given a bit of insight into how Jones is viewed at PP. Another tick for Bolts.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: cookie2 on April 05, 2021, 01:41:27 pm
Wasn't Malthouse instrumental in bringing Liam to PP?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Blue Moon on April 05, 2021, 01:48:02 pm
Winning makes us all feel better. It was a solid result. Seven goals, but it should have been fifteen. The players were committed to the game plan, though our execution was a bit hit and miss. As I have said a few times, teaming is now one of our biggest problems. Our skills were better but still not good, as was our decision making. Jones was enormous, and with Saad and Docherty, it is a first class half backline though Docherty has got to stop kicking the ball out on the full. If Marchbank ever returns, with Weitering, SPS and Plowman, it will be a very good backline. The mid-field was tough this week, putting pressure on their opposition, which makes a difference to the defence. Players were actually feeding off Cripps this week whereas in the previous two weeks, he was often isolated. This comes down to team work. McKay should have kicked ten and I was left to think what sort of damage having Harry and Charlie up and running might do. I have been watching a documentary on the Lakers and the Celtics and they talked about how Larry Bird was able to give the extra pass which helped with their scoring. I think Carlton is trying to giving the extra pass but our execution and skills let us down ibn the forward line and so instead of opening the forward line up, the fumbles and missed targets close the forward line down. I have always been a get the ball kick the goals sort of person but I can see the benefit of the extra pass. We just have to be better at execution. Murphy is struggling to his 300th, Casboult is struggling to his 150th but he does have a physical presence, and Eddie is in his final year, we have a number of hard working smalls but I really think we need an excitement machine down there. Once again there were eight players out who you would consider for first team selection and a number of guys a putting their hands up in the reserves. Things are looking up but we still need to develop a winning culture.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 01:56:57 pm
It was interesting to hear Brendan Goddard's response to Malthouse's article.  I'm paraphrasing but it was along the lines of "absolute garbage".

Did you read the article? Apart from the one line about Murphy which gets some fan boys knicker's in a knot I'm pretty sure all Carlton supporters would agree with what he wrote.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 02:18:32 pm
If it's on the replay I'll try to get some clips up so we can see it.

I recall twice in the space of 5 mins that we kicked the ball over his head when Freo had a run on, both times the ball pitched in between sMurph and Freo opponents.

On the first occasion I think the bounce favoured the Freo player who took the ball and was then tackled front on by sMurph.

The second time I think the bounce went straight up and the Freo opponent was being wrestled by a Carlton player coming the same way(SoJ?) and sMurph tried to tap the ball sideways to nearby team-mate.

I wouldn't call either shirking the contest.

Perhaps the fans have been drinking too much of Malthouse's bathwater after he labelled sMurph soft during the week. All that media commentary proves is Malthouse is weak as piss and doesn't stand by his own words of having the players back!

Where we were seated we were right in line with Murphy, the ball and the Freo player. He moved out of the way, everyone in our section saw it.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 05, 2021, 02:20:09 pm
Wasn't Malthouse instrumental in bringing Liam to PP?

Yes, but as a forward, where he was pretty ordinary. Moving him to the backline is what saved his AFL career. Of course, Jones is a quality character, and he stuck to the task of reinventing himself brilliantly, and for that he deserves considerable credit.

Some dubious types will try and tell you that it wasn't Bolton, but other coaches that suggested the switch of position, but somehow I doubt it lol.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Woodstock on April 05, 2021, 02:26:25 pm
Hi All. Been a while. Thought I’d drop in again and say g’day. Hope you’ve been behaving yourselves.

Was at the game and enjoyed it immensely. 2 1/2 good quarters with lots of positives. A wins a win and I’ll take it 😀

Onto the Ruckless Suns.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: cookie2 on April 05, 2021, 04:33:04 pm
Yes, but as a forward, where he was pretty ordinary. Moving him to the backline is what saved his AFL career. Of course, Jones is a quality character, and he stuck to the task of reinventing himself brilliantly, and for that he deserves considerable credit.

Some dubious types will try and tell you that it wasn't Bolton, but other coaches that suggested the switch of position, but somehow I doubt it lol.

I'd forgotten he'd come on board as a forward.  Now you mention it I seem to remember someone in the recruiting team claiming the suggestion of trying him in defence,  but not really sure now.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Lods on April 05, 2021, 05:02:42 pm
I'd forgotten he'd come on board as a forward.  Now you mention it I seem to remember someone in the recruiting team claiming the suggestion of trying him in defence,  but not really sure now.

Paul Brodie
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: cookie2 on April 05, 2021, 05:14:27 pm
Paul Brodie

That's him Lods.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 05, 2021, 05:43:38 pm
There were two incidents in the same position where everyone was yelling he crapped himself. The first one was completely justified, the second was an odd bounce and our fans were harsh on him because of what happened prior.
Is the one you are referring to at around the 28min  of the 3rd when Saad kicks it towards him?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 05, 2021, 06:25:39 pm
Hi All. Been a while. Thought I’d drop in again and say g’day. Hope you’ve been behaving yourselves.

Was at the game and enjoyed it immensely. 2 1/2 good quarters with lots of positives. A wins a win and I’ll take it 😀

Onto the Ruckless Suns.
Gday Woody, welcome back....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 07:49:20 pm
Is the one you are referring to at around the 28min  of the 3rd when Saad kicks it towards him?

Just checked, no not the one.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 05, 2021, 07:54:57 pm
Just checked, no not the one.
So when is it?

There are two moments being talked about on forums, both happened about 60s apart in the 3rd Qtr.

The first with 2m left in the 3rd he's beaten to the football by a Freo player who runs past Pittonet unhindered, sMurph tackles the Freo player front on and the tackle sticks.

The second is with 1m left, Cotterall kicks it over sMurphs head, it bounces boundary line side of sMurphs running line backs towards the corridor, sMurph changes direction towards the fall of the ball which is now infield and actually touches the pill first with his left hand trying to weave towards the corridor but doesn't take it cleanly. For some reason BigH who trailed the Freo player in hangs back from the contest.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 07:58:19 pm
So when is it?

There are two moments being talked about on forums, both happened about 60s apart in the 3rd Qtr.

I'm not watching it again.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 05, 2021, 08:02:53 pm
I'm not watching it again.
Then I'm afraid I have to call bullsh1t!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 08:04:03 pm
Then I have to call bullsh1t!

Then I have to call you a flog.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 05, 2021, 08:05:41 pm
Then I have to call you a flog.
You've probably been brainwashed by Malthouse or the crowd around you, are you seeing what Malthouse told you to see or what the mob saw?

The biggest disappointment in those two passages of play are the pissweak shepherds handed out by two of our biggest players.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 05, 2021, 08:08:16 pm
I have been calling Murphy soft for 5 years, MM made his comments yesterday.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 05, 2021, 08:09:09 pm
I have been calling Murphy soft for 5 years, MM made his comments yesterday.
 You've come on here and potted a Carlton player based on a mirage!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 05, 2021, 09:31:01 pm
Just checked, no not the one.
So It wasn't in the 3rd because I watched the entire third qtr that's the only one that involved the ball being kicked in his vicinity with a Freo player near by. I'll watch the other 3 qtrs and see if I can find it.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: DJC on April 05, 2021, 10:41:54 pm
Did you read the article? Apart from the one line about Murphy which gets some fan boys knicker's in a knot I'm pretty sure all Carlton supporters would agree with what he wrote.

No, I haven't read the article (I have read several of Malthouse's regular articles bagging us or Buckley) but it was discussed in some detail on the ABC footy program.  Goddard's comment was part of a fairly rigorous dismantling of Malthouse's argument.

I did read Nick Graham's article though:

Quote
“He probably set the club back five or six years, a very ego-driven man, Mick.”

https://www.zerohanger.com/set-the-club-back-five-or-six-years-former-blue-makes-explosive-claims-about-mick-malthouse-2021-footy-news-81502/

I think that Nick makes a lot more sense than Mick.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Thryleon on April 06, 2021, 06:32:00 am
I think Nick is salty and has his own version of events that explain away a few things.

1.  Nicks version of events state that malthouse wasn't in it for the right reasons but stopping short of the line on run throughs states to me that malthouse was big on standards and making sure that players upheld them.

2.  Nick allows himself to externalise the blame for his afl career.  He was no longer in the young bracket when Bolton came along.  Is a bit of rubbish.  Nick Holman was delisted ahead of him when bolts came aboard and we were recruiting older blokes for specialist roles.  We ended up attracting in a superior version of Graham in gibbons.

3.  Malthouse played the older guys because as we can see from when Bolton took over we didn't win too many with too many youngsters playing.   Ive never heard of a coach that didn't play favourites.  Understanding why a player was favourite was key to working your way into a team though and its usually got to do with trust, attitude and professionalism in getting jobs done not because he likes the person or the way they look.

Ultimately, nicks opinion is a fans opinion, and its not completely wrong because there are elements of truth to everything but setting the club back 5 years wasn't done by mick, it was done by the club and each individual who failed to really step up and peform.  Our issues were more to do with archaic styles of management and recruiting.  Mick was mick.  He too is salty which is why he lines up Marc Murphy.

Malthouse wasn't all bad news and there are still blokes playing for us every week that we recruited under mick and thus far he's been one of the few senior coaches we've had who managed to turn a draftee into a bona-fide superstar who everyone would love to have in their team (cripps).

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Thryleon on April 06, 2021, 06:35:10 am
I think I know the incident that mbb is referring to.

It stood out to me on TV.  Murphy and a freo player running at each other.  The ball was probably a 60 40 in the freo players favour due to distance and going harder and lower was probably the right thing for him to do to win that contest.

Thing is, Murphy has not come out of those contests well through his career and was probably right to not go into it when the ball is in dispute on the wing towards the end of the third quarter when we are almost 50 points up.

Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LoveNavy on April 06, 2021, 10:51:44 am
A few observations:
* Fogarty's a ripper
* Dow showed something despite getting banged up
* We love Eddie
* H is coming of age
* Crippa's back
* Jonesy had AA performance
* Docherty's finding form
* Parksy looked the part
* Intensity is infectious
* We can play a tough brand
* Finally have competition for some spots. Hope we use this to manage those not in form
* The talk was put into action
* Can't help but dream what a healthy list could mean (Charlie, Kemp, Fisher, Martin, Newman, King, McG, Marchy, Philpy.....)
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 06, 2021, 11:20:29 am
Thing is, Murphy has not come out of those contests well through his career and was probably right to not go into it when the ball is in dispute on the wing towards the end of the third quarter when we are almost 50 points up.
Fans have to be realistic, in this situation sMurph is giving away at least 10cm and 10kg to a KPP running straight at him, who is wrestling with our KPP.

I'd expect our KPP to take their KPP out of the contest and leaving the small forward an avenue to goal. Instead on both occasions our KPPs sat back expecting a cheap tap from sMurph. The question is that by coaching design or habit?

If that had been Castagna running under the footy and Riewoldt coming the other way wrestling with a KPD opponent, Riewoldt would have taken the KPD out and let Castagna run free onto the footy, which is ultimately the type of team act that delivers a premiership.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 06, 2021, 12:01:52 pm
Fans have to be realistic, in this situation sMurph is giving away at least 10cm and 10kg to a KPP running straight at him, who is wrestling with our KPP.

I'd expect our KPP to take their KPP out of the contest and leaving the small forward an avenue to goal. Instead on both occasions our KPPs sat back expecting a cheap tap from sMurph. The question is that by coaching design or habit?

If that had been Castagna running under the footy and Riewoldt coming the other way wrestling with a KPD opponent, Riewoldt would have taken the KPD out and let Castagna run free onto the footy, which is ultimately the type of team act that delivers a premiership.
Richmond players wouldn't get a free pass to squib a contest..
Justin Leppitch has just been interviewed on SEN I think and canned our recruiting especially Lachie O'brien and said Richmond wouldn't have taken him and he isn't their style. Said he had a great highlight tape but wasn't for them, they preferred Higgins and McIntosh... Reading between the lines LOB wasn't hard enough for the Tigers and their standards in that area are different..
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: dodge on April 06, 2021, 12:11:54 pm
Much easier recruiting for a specific role rather than replacing a third of a squad every year.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 06, 2021, 12:22:25 pm
Richmond players wouldn't get a free pass to squib a contest..
It's a rubbish accusation, not supported by the replay which in Full HD shows both events being talked about on various forums.

In the 1st sMurph had zero chance of getting to the footy first so he tackled the KPD, in the 2nd he changed direction because the ball bounced sideways and tried to tap the ball to his advantage while avoiding being wrapped up by the KPD. Which is the whole point of being a forward.

I'm not sure what people see, ................ what they want to see I suspect.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 06, 2021, 04:29:51 pm
Full HD isn't real life. Everyone in the bay where I sat in the AFL members saw both players running at each other and Murphy deviated. He didn't want the contact, that's fine but he should retire.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 06, 2021, 04:31:43 pm
Full HD isn't real life. Everyone in the bay where I sat in the AFL members saw both players running at each other and Murphy deviated. He didn't want the contact, that's fine but he should retire.
So you were on the wing?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 06, 2021, 04:36:25 pm
Level 1 Section 11.

Why do you think I'm lying LP? You have PMed me numerous times and have known me for a number of years. Numerous people near me commented, I didn't actually say a word.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 06, 2021, 04:41:38 pm
Level 1 Section 11.

Why do you think I'm lying LP? You have PMed me numerous times and have known me for a number of years. Numerous people near me commented, I didn't actually say a word.
I'm trying to understand what you or those around you saw, the perspective you viewed it from, that is all there is no need to be paranoid.

So those around you see it from ground level almost perfectly side on. The Cotterell kick over sMurph's head, the sideways tall bounce of the ball back towards the centre square, and sMurph deviating out of the opponents path.

But sMurph made contact with the ball and opponent "after deviating", in fact sMurph got first hand on the ball. Could it be what they thought they saw from side on was wrong?

Why did sMurph deviate, he cut back across the path of the Freo opponent not out of the opponents path, if sMurph had kept running straight he would have run straight past the boundary side of the Freo opponent by 5m?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: crashlander on April 06, 2021, 05:06:04 pm
I think Murphy is struggling to get things together as full time small forward. It is not a role he has played much of, as he has been required in the middle of the ground for most of his career.
To be honest, I thought he would handle the role better, as he has kicked some excellent goals when resting forward, but our players often try to make an idiot out of me. :)  :-[  I would actually change things up for him and start him at the centre bounce for the first few minutes, trying to get him into the game. Not for long periods, but getting him in the heat of the battle would get him used to getting the ball.
I would also consider using him as a rover in ball-ups close to goal. He is smart and has good hands.

I'd be very tempted to try something similar with Eddie Betts. I wouldn't have him on the ball for long, but I would allow him to get his hands dirty. His defensive efforts would be appreciated at the centre bounce.

Playing small forward is not the easiest role in the team. People generally don't look for you, aiming preferentially at the tall targets. And it isn't always smart to kick to a small forward expecting him to be marking target: God knows we learnt that lesson when we last had Eddie. Far too often he was the marking target (which we couldn't hit, but that was another tale). It would be smart to kick it to Murphy or Betts as marking targets sometimes: keeps the small defenders from being able to zone off.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 06, 2021, 05:08:12 pm
It's a rubbish accusation, not supported by the replay which in Full HD shows both events being talked about on various forums.

In the 1st sMurph had zero chance of getting to the footy first so he tackled the KPD, in the 2nd he changed direction because the ball bounced sideways and tried to tap the ball to his advantage while avoiding being wrapped up by the KPD. Which is the whole point of being a forward.

I'm not sure what people see, ................ what they want to see I suspect.
My comments were not directed at Murphy specifically and I didnt have a close up view on the incident in discussion at the minute. I was just making the point that Richmond look and insist on different characteristics in their players when they recruit them and attack on the football is a non negotiable if you believe Leppitch.
I use the term Von Trapp kids and I'm thinking clubs like Richmond see us in the same light as having several soft players.
Its not a good look for our brand IMO and we need to invest more in players who will take a hit for the club and we need to weed out the ones who consistently fail in this area.
The game is quicker and players will be placed in difficult situations more often and have to respond on instinct more often and thats an issue for some of our blokes.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 06, 2021, 06:34:50 pm
I think I know the incident that mbb is referring to.

It stood out to me on TV.  Murphy and a freo player running at each other.  The ball was probably a 60 40 in the freo players favour due to distance and going harder and lower was probably the right thing for him to do to win that contest.

Thing is, Murphy has not come out of those contests well through his career and was probably right to not go into it when the ball is in dispute on the wing towards the end of the third quarter when we are almost 50 points up.


Which qtr Thry?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 06, 2021, 07:44:23 pm
How good is this fella?!

Hope he;'s a 250 gamer for the Old Dark Navy Blues!

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/899065/spotlight-luke-parks-moment?videoId=899065&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1617696000001
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: jeza on April 06, 2021, 07:57:15 pm
Murphy is just not physically capable of running full pace into contests any more.

He's clearly had bad shoulders over a long period of time and either consciously or subconsiously protects himself. He slows down to avoid the potential of contact and is very reluctant to tackle most of the time.

I'm not whinging about it (any more) but accepted it a long time ago... it does still make you cringe when you see it though.

And the question is - can you be a successful club with players playing like that in the team?
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: jeza on April 06, 2021, 08:01:43 pm
How good is this fella?!

Hope he;'s a 250 gamer for the Old Dark Navy Blues!

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/899065/spotlight-luke-parks-moment?videoId=899065&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1617696000001

Love Parks!

Ideal defender. Nothing fancy - long arms allow him to play above his height but is still very mobile. Very well developed for a guy who is only 19! What a massive win for a rookie pick.

Got his jumper of Rhys-Jones... hope some of his mongrel rubs off.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Thryleon on April 06, 2021, 08:01:53 pm
Which qtr Thry?

Thought it was third.   Probably half the reason they came back.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LoveNavy on April 06, 2021, 08:43:22 pm
How good is this fella?!

Hope he;'s a 250 gamer for the Old Dark Navy Blues!

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/899065/spotlight-luke-parks-moment?videoId=899065&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1617696000001

Indeed!
#26 big shoes to fill.
I'm suspecting Luke Parks got big feet 👣
All the best to him. Hope he develops to his very best
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 06, 2021, 09:59:07 pm
Thought it was third.   Probably half the reason they came back.
If its the one at the at approx 28min where Saad kicks it to him, MBB confirmed it wasn't the one.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Thryleon on April 07, 2021, 07:21:51 am
If its the one at the at approx 28min where Saad kicks it to him, MBB confirmed it wasn't the one.

Nah I thought the ball was in dispute.  Either way I didn't think he had much of a chance to win the footy in the face of an opponent who wasn't intimidated by him running towards the flight of the footy. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: madbluboy on April 07, 2021, 07:46:01 am
If its the one at the at approx 28min where Saad kicks it to him, MBB confirmed it wasn't the one.

Sorry mate I don't have the time to find the incident. (Work and two boys 6 and 4 keep me busy). It was a little further up the ground and closer to the boundary than the one you showed. It might not look as bad on TV as he did make contact with the player but we just happened to be in direct line of it and everyone saw him move. I'm not calling him gutless, he has put his body on the line in the past and proven he would do it. I'm just saying he no longer can or will and that his body is no longer up to the demands of AFL.
If we want to win a premiership we have to be ruthless. History shows not many nice teams win flags.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 07, 2021, 02:31:55 pm
Sorry mate I don't have the time to find the incident. (Work and two boys 6 and 4 keep me busy). It was a little further up the ground and closer to the boundary than the one you showed. It might not look as bad on TV as he did make contact with the player but we just happened to be in direct line of it and everyone saw him move. I'm not calling him gutless, he has put his body on the line in the past and proven he would do it. I'm just saying he no longer can or will and that his body is no longer up to the demands of AFL.
If we want to win a premiership we have to be ruthless. History shows not many nice teams win flags.
But I also think every premiership team has a Murph type player in it. Look I am not suggesting Murph has done the courageous acts Nick Riewoldt or J Brown, have done, but he is no where near as bad as many make out. Over his career, he has stuck his nose over it and got absolutely poleaxed in most games he's played, and he has paid for it and will continue to pay for it for life as the aches and pains grow stronger. If I thought about, Im sure I could name plenty of blokes, who many idolise, that sleep with the lights on. But thats never gonna change peoples opinion that Murph is a softcock. I'll instead revert to King Carey's comments made during a Friday night  telecast who said Murph is as courageous as as anyone.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 07, 2021, 02:37:57 pm
I'll instead revert to King Carey's comments made during a Friday night  telecast who said Murph is as courageous as as anyone.
This is clearly the truth, the problem I think is one of language, in that some people define courage very narrowly like they define tough.

Craig Bradley was tough, but even by sMurph's standards was a soft as butter in the physical contest, but Bradley would run until he threw up and then he'd run some more, much like Robert Harvey. That is both courageous and tough, it's just not bare knuckle tough!

Most of these "tough guys" in the basic sense, would fold like a house of cards under the Robert Harvey, Craig Bradley type toughness. They'd be terrified at the thought of having to push themselves like that just once a season in a time trial let alone a game!

Some people think beating their kid toughens them up, others think it's a pissweak act!

sMurph has spent more than a decade at Carlton being poleaxed by bigger heavier opponents, blokes like Hodge, and received little or no protection from team-mates like the pissweak Tuohy or Henderson. Yet sMurph fronts up, week after week, doing the tough stuff he needs to do to get back on the park.

It's pretty thin logic calling any of them soft!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 07, 2021, 02:48:24 pm
Murphy dislocated his shoulder in his debut season, in tackle by Robert Copeland. Another shoulder injury colliding with Dangerfield in 2012 and a busted cheekbone colliding with Hodge in 2013. And there's probably others that I can't recall. Those three blokes are bigger and heavier than Murphy. Any apprehensiveness on his part is perhaps understandable. He's small, not dirty and alway tried to be a ball player, and has paid the price.

I'm not a fan of labelling any AFL footballer soft. I think it's distasteful. Even the "softest" player does things that would leave all of us running twice as fast the other way.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 07, 2021, 02:52:16 pm
Its a game of contested footy these days...being a one or two trick pony isnt going to make you a champ anymore.
The games best player Dusty Martin is the best because he is the best at the No1 skill required and thats winning the football in a contested situation on a consistent basis.
Bradley was a tough athlete, relentless running as suggested but the game has evolved......Bradleys equivalent Brad Hill is highly skilled but like Murphy is finding the relentless contested footy and pressure not to his liking when now in a team that doesnt have the depth of contested players to help him out more like he had at the Hawks.
Shaun Grigg was a soft average Carlton mid but a successful tiger utility because he was able to hide in the jungle of tough Tigers who could do the hard contested stuff, Murphy doesnt have the same jungle to hide in with us....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: capcom on April 07, 2021, 03:04:33 pm
Right on @PaulP

Buckley and Johnston were incredibly tough on their own, but they played with some brutal big guys who'd exact savage revenge and, more than often did.  Cross Mario, Wow, Val, and you'd get it back in spades. 
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 07, 2021, 03:09:41 pm
Murphy dislocated his shoulder in his debut season, in tackle by Robert Copeland. Another shoulder injury colliding with Dangerfield in 2012 and a busted cheekbone colliding with Hodge in 2013. And there's probably others that I can't recall. Those three blokes are bigger and heavier than Murphy. Any apprehensiveness on his part is perhaps understandable. He's small, not dirty and alway tried to be a ball player, and has paid the price.

I'm not a fan of labelling any AFL footballer soft. I think it's distasteful. Even the "softest" player does things that would leave all of us running twice as fast the other way.
Agreed, and I remain convinced it's a very narrow perspective of what people think tough is, and I think it says more about the critics than the players!

I can't help but think "some" of the sMurph critics, would think Stan Magro or Darren Milburn were tough, were I see those two as pissweak! Copeland as well for that matter!

PS; I do think we need some mongrel in the team, but it won't be a tougher team if it comes at the expense of sMurph. I don't think that is the contradiction some will claim it to be!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 07, 2021, 04:28:20 pm
Right on @PaulP

Buckley and Johnston were incredibly tough on their own, but they played with some brutal big guys who'd exact savage revenge and, more than often did.  Cross Mario, Wow, Val, and you'd get it back in spades. 
And  before them it was the likes of Big Nic, Waite, etc. We had a long history of enforcers, protectors. The game is santised now.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 07, 2021, 04:53:10 pm
Murphy has survived 280+ games, 5/6 coaches, a few CEO's and Heads of Football, 15 or 16 trade periods, 4? 5? contract renewals, savage list cuts etc. If he was as bad as some say, somewhere in that revolving door of coaches, board members, senior executive etc. he would have been found out by now. The club has had plenty of chances to offload him. Former captain, multiple B+F winner, never been dropped as far as I'm aware. But that's all irrelevant, he's soft. EOS lol.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Shakin77 on April 07, 2021, 06:08:20 pm
Murphy dislocated his shoulder in his debut season, in tackle by Robert Copeland. Another shoulder injury colliding with Dangerfield in 2012 and a busted cheekbone colliding with Hodge in 2013. And there's probably others that I can't recall. Those three blokes are bigger and heavier than Murphy. Any apprehensiveness on his part is perhaps understandable. He's small, not dirty and alway tried to be a ball player, and has paid the price.

I'm not a fan of labelling any AFL footballer soft. I think it's distasteful. Even the "softest" player does things that would leave all of us running twice as fast the other way.

That attack on the ball with Dangerfield was brutal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbnrh5mBCFE

Knocked out here against Port.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6qa1IcQvzc

A section of Carlton fans have always called Murph soft.    

If you look hard enough you will always find what you want.    No point arguing about it.  
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: PaulP on April 07, 2021, 06:21:29 pm
That attack on the ball with Dangerfield was brutal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbnrh5mBCFE

Knocked out here against Port.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6qa1IcQvzc

A section of Carlton fans have always called Murph soft.    

If you look hard enough you will always find what you want.    No point arguing about it.  

Yes, I agree Shakin. I am quite often aware of the sheer inanity of some of the discussions in which I participate, and yet like a moth to the naked flame, I keep going. Not sure what that says about me, but anyway, sometimes the knocks on some of our players are totally  out of order, and a spirited response / defence is something I find hard to resist.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Spanner on April 07, 2021, 11:15:20 pm
That attack on the ball with Dangerfield was brutal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbnrh5mBCFE

Knocked out here against Port.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6qa1IcQvzc

A section of Carlton fans have always called Murph soft.    

If you look hard enough you will always find what you want.    No point arguing about it.  
Thise two examples are what you'd expect from a player, any player on your list. Now document all the times he's pulled out of a contest, didn't tackle and token chased. I'll wait....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: LP on April 08, 2021, 10:03:13 am
I realise you can only play against your opponent, and it wasn't BigH's fault that he played 4 Qtrs against an undersized defence that played from behind.

But the media calls for a big long term contract are to say the least a little premature.

When BigH does that against some decent defence or defensive tactics we can take note, in game perhaps when Walsh and Cripps aren't dominating the midfield, if he dominates then, when others around him aren't delivering things on a platter, then it'll be a tell!

Kids offer fans a glimmer of a snifter of a poofteenth of potential in a single game, and the player manager is calling for a Buddy Franklin type contract!
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: rocky on April 08, 2021, 10:28:13 am
When BigH does that against some decent defence or defensive tactics we can take note, in game perhaps when Walsh and Cripps aren't dominating the midfield, if he dominates then, when others around him aren't delivering things on a platter, then it'll be a tell!

Kids offer fans a glimmer of a snifter of a poofteenth of potential in a single game, and the player manager is calling for a Buddy Franklin type contract!


Thought kicking 4 goals against Moore (all Australian CHB) was fair output. Also, while Walsh was he usual self, Cripps was a bit sluggish that game. Could've had a couple more but for 2 brain fades. Noticed against Freo he took his full 30secs in most cases before kicking so maybe lesson learnt there.

Agree, massive contracts on potential are fraught with danger, but by the same token we have a very rare commodity on our hands and we need to secure his services moving forward.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Thryleon on April 08, 2021, 11:32:30 am
Harry should be have converted at least 3 additional goals against on the weekend, and probably should have had another 4 from the other two games.

He could well have been leading the coleman by now if not for some fairly crap attempts at goal.

He is a special talent and a long term deal isn't inconceivable.  So far we have another million dollar man spending more time injured than playing.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Shakin77 on April 08, 2021, 01:32:48 pm
Thise two examples are what you'd expect from a player, any player on your list. Now document all the times he's pulled out of a contest, didn't tackle and token chased. I'll wait....

I will leave that to you.   Won't hold my breath.

All we will get is some dribble like "in that game in the 2nd or 3rd quarter, was a contest with I can't remember who, me and my mate saw it.... dribble....  dribble...."

The bloke has never had an issue winning the contested ball or clearances in some very average midfields and his stats over his career back this up.

Like I said if you look hard enough you will find what you want.   Sometime you don't even have to look.   Just make it up.    You will never have to prove it.


Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: keogh on April 09, 2021, 05:12:49 pm
Murphy has been a loyal servant but his and Betts time is up
It’s s brutal game
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Lods on April 09, 2021, 06:13:06 pm
Cripps and McKay.
It's a bit like Judd and Fevola.
It's what you build a side around.

Get them both done....on long term deals.
The 4 goals against Moore (when probably beaten on the night) was arguably a better performance than the 7 against Freo.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: flyboy77 on April 09, 2021, 06:18:58 pm
Murphy has been a loyal servant but his and Betts time is up
It’s s brutal game

Might as well nurse Smurf to 300 now.

Nothing to suggest Betts' time is up. Zilch.
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 09, 2021, 06:36:20 pm
Might as well nurse Smurf to 300 now.

Nothing to suggest Betts' time is up. Zilch.
With Martin and Fisher out for a while we need Eddie, Fogarty is really a mid and Gibbons spends time between midfield and being a forward so Eddie is really our only specialist small forward pocket available.
Durdin and Owies still have their L Plates on....
Title: Re: Post Game Pandemonium: AFL Rd 3: Carlton vs Fremantle
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 10, 2021, 07:26:08 am
With Martin and Fisher out for a while we need Eddie, Fogarty is really a mid and Gibbons spends time between midfield and being a forward so Eddie is really our only specialist small forward pocket available.
Durdin and Owies still have their L Plates on....
Agree, right now we need (and management expects) W's so we need to field our best side every week. Blooding kids and green shoots has to be done differently now. If Eddie is in the best right now, so be it, he serves a purpose. Its his last year and when the likes of Fisher, Martin and even Owies, Durdin, Carroll are up and running, he won't plat. Simple as that.