Sorry…guys I posted this warning 2 years back when we got Buttifant as the steak knives in the MM deal…when I spoke to a senior Collingwood playing coaching staff member at the time he said that they were happy to see the back of DF..reckons they were 6 months behind other AFL clubs for fitness at the time and had to double the workload for 3 months in that offseason to get the list up to the required level…we were great at good 4th Qtrs under Ratts despite our skill deficiencies and almost made a Prelim after that shocker no free v Tex Walker in Perth……..cant be unfit and have no skills=17th spot 1 and 5……..players way too soft…Gibbs and Murphy 2 touches Q4…no correlation?…..I reckon we are majorly unfit…Thoughts?
Collingwood were so fit in 2010 and 2011 that there were all sorts of rumours that they were on PEDs.
I don't know Gags10. It could be a case of not being fit. We definitely haven't got the skill and some of this problem is in the players self belief and confidence. They do appear slower immediately after the first quarter in ever game I have watched. It gets worse after half time. I don't know if it is between the ears, and the players give up hope. I don't know if the players are not interested in the contest and even winning games. However I don't feel the players are as fit as they could be. a lack of fitness will see fatigue sink in early and that can have a serious effect on skill levels. Which do drop off early in a match. A lack of fitness do to fatigue will effect confidence too. You might have a valid point. It is definitely something I would want to have addressed at the club if we are to rebuild. No stones can be left unturned. ;)
The fact that MM brought in DB whiley and daisy, and probably kept the status quo on the assistants, does bode well for a case granting him an extension
The club appears to have given MM free reign and it hasn't worked. Its actually got worse and getting worse by the minute
I'm convinced we're not fit enough but it's not the only issue. Just one of many.
The fact that we came home strong at the end of last season after everyone had match fitness is probably evidence enough.
Just look at the games.
Running on the spot after a 1.5 quarters.
Buttifant may have been a guru in 2010 but that may as well be 50 years ago.
I also don't discount the PED stuff. 2 pies players caught , who do they learn from. The drug testers followed Swan everywhere remember? Can't get a kick, goes to US for a month and comes back a champ.
I have recollection that in his early/mid time at CFC, Cordy was seen as the messiah. We were one of the fittest around and although we were tripe footballers, we occasionally ran over teams in heroic comebacks thanks to fitness.
I seem to remember though that towards the end of his time we had some injury and fitness issues that lead to some questioning of Cordy. I have neither the time nor inclination to look for any corroborating evidence, but just wondering if anyone else remembers that? (please leave the rose coloured retrospectoscope off)
When you're losing and bereft of spirit you always look slow and unfit.
When you're slow and unfit you also look slow and unfit.
We finished the cheats.com.au game full of run. It aint fitness. It's between the lugholes and in the ticker.
We finished the cheats.com.au game full of run. It aint fitness. It's between the lugholes and in the ticker.
And they are the only side whose fitness is in question and have dropped off considerably in the second half early in the season. So I don't think that's a good example to use.
And they are the only side whose fitness is in question and have dropped off considerably in the second half early in the season. So I don't think that's a good example to use.
Exactly.
.........and look at how the game panned out.
Competitive for a quarter and a half then we fall away with intensity which is our method.
Essendon hard at it for 3 quarters before hitting the wall, just like they have all year.
The only games that haven't followed the script is us V the Saints . Why? I don't think it we anywhere near the opening intensity we had in other games.
I don't think we're unfit, we just don't have enough good runners.
When you're losing and bereft of spirit you always look slow and unfit.
Our fitness levels do look a bit better this year than last. We do not appear to be falling away as significantly in last quarters due to not being able to compete. Against St. Kilda we even came home strongly.
That does not say that we are fit enough. I don't think we are. However, we are not as bad as he have been in recent years.
Under Cordy we were significantly fitter compared to our competitors for the first couple of seasons. Then we fell away very badly very quickly. I can understand why the questions were being asked.
Cordy appears to be having a similar effect at Collingwood. The question is, can he keep it up? Last year Port were clearly the fittest team going around. It won them games. This year many of the others have caught up and passed Port: they have been run over a few times this season so far.
If we replace Buttifant, we may see some change for a while. But in the long term? Not so sure. I'd be willing to give him a go for a bit longer. But, like many aspects of our club at present, I would be looking at him and evaluating our progress.
But, as Baggers pointed out, when you are beaten in your head, when your will to win disappears and the self belief is missing, you naturally look slower and weaker. At the moment we are lacking self belief, so our skill levels and fitness look as bad as they can look. If we start winning and the self belief turns around, we will look fitter and stronger. Self belief and desire take you a long way. I would be evaluating Buttifant when we show some self belief and desire: it will make the evaluation more realistic.
However, with Malthouse looking like he will finish up at the end of the season, our new coach may have his own plans for the fitness department. Buttifant may not be among those plans. Many coaches bring in their own preferred fitness guru as a part of their program. As such we may not see if Buttifant is the right man or not. Like Malthouse he will be evaluated by the end of this year, be it reasonable or otherwise.
Moving away from coach appointed lackeys to appointments by the Football Manager is a huge opportunity for us to jump ahead of what other clubs are doing. Does Macca have those skills though?
I reckon that significant injury set backs have resulted in multiple Pre seasons that have been ruined for too many players resulting in a largely evident fitness issue during the season proper. We finished last season stronger than we started it, and I expect that to occur again this year, but anyone telling us our blokes are in good nick were probably telling porkies.
We usually get the odd fluff pieces about the time trials around Prince's park, and this season none of that actually came out. Or does 2012's injury set backs not have a correlating effect to players moving forward?
Regardless we don't run out of puff, we get rattled by intense physicality moreso, and when the tackling intensity goes up we seem to drop regardless of what quarter it is.
And they are the only side whose fitness is in question and have dropped off considerably in the second half early in the season. So I don't think that's a good example to use.
Not the only club. Freo get questioned nearly every week
Not the only club. Freo get questioned nearly every week
Freo take their foot off the gas.
our players are just weak,if you compare them to other teams players we look undersize,look at our players legs,arms no muscle what do they do in the gym.
our players are just weak,if you compare them to other teams players we look undersize,look at our players legs,arms no muscle what do they do in the gym.
Agree...gibbs and murphs body have not changed since they started
Murphy is a tank. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.
Reckon Gibbs is strongly built too but is a bit lean through the core.... That could be the jumper being slimming though. He's definitely bigger than when he started.
Murphy is a tank. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.
Bit unfair there, Cocko, Murph goes in hard and puts in his best each and every week. His skills are great. Just wish he'd stop the posing when he thinks he should get a free... not a good look.
Sorry…guys I posted this warning 2 years back when we got Buttifant as the steak knives in the MM deal…when I spoke to a senior Collingwood playing coaching staff member at the time he said that they were happy to see the back of DF..reckons they were 6 months behind other AFL clubs for fitness at the time and had to double the workload for 3 months in that offseason to get the list up to the required level…we were great at good 4th Qtrs under Ratts despite our skill deficiencies and almost made a Prelim after that shocker no free v Tex Walker in Perth……..cant be unfit and have no skills=17th spot 1 and 5……..players way too soft…Gibbs and Murphy 2 touches Q4…no correlation?…..I reckon we are majorly unfit…Thoughts?
Sounds like crap to me. Collingwood had just made a GF and it's frontal pressure for the last two years was amazing.
I don't know Gags10. It could be a case of not being fit. We definitely haven't got the skill and some of this problem is in the players self belief and confidence. They do appear slower immediately after the first quarter in ever game I have watched. It gets worse after half time. I don't know if it is between the ears, and the players give up hope. I don't know if the players are not interested in the contest and even winning games. However I don't feel the players are as fit as they could be. a lack of fitness will see fatigue sink in early and that can have a serious effect on skill levels. Which do drop off early in a match. A lack of fitness do to fatigue will effect confidence too. You might have a valid point. It is definitely something I would want to have addressed at the club if we are to rebuild. No stones can be left unturned. ;)
Last weeks game watching live proved they were unfit to at least follow whatever it is MM calls his game plan - they were pulling in big breaths and bent over but I never saw not one of them on the lead or anything so couldn't work out why they were so stuffed
i'll never forget the intensity, speed, skill of hand and foot and potency we had in one game against collingwood round 3 2012
reigning grand finalists and we beat them by 10 goals.
The arrogance of murphy giving the scum fans the one finger salute. I really thought leaving the ground....we'd play deep into september that year