Just saving some time. ;D
Yet again Gibbs and Murphy had no impact on the game at all. Judd was tagged out of the game to give us no run. Jaksch, Rowe, Walker and Tuohy turned the ball over with poor disposals all day. Jones should be delisted because he can't play football. Everitt still leaves me wondering why we took him on. Cripps played another solid game, and Docherty is the best player we have had for the last 2 years. We managed to have a 3 goal lead and lose by 10 goals. Why ? because we can't run. We can't kick to a target. We can't stick tackles. We are just a sh1t groups of footballers being paid too much, to have no work rate. We are now closer to rock bottom than ever before. Are coach will not survive the season. Lets see how close this actually is by the end of play Saturday My 16th. ;D
Embarrassing, there is not much else to say on it.
Here's one I prepared earlier
Kudos for the thread title Sheik, better than anything we produced. Left half way through the third quarter - when Tutt shows more than anyone else you know you're in a bad place. Imagine they kicked straight and us poorly ::)
Our average losing margin right now is 46.5 points, just under 8-goals ................. fair dinkum, how can we pay a coach $1.3 million per annum and accept that sort of performance ??
Our average losing margin right now is 46.5 points, just under 8-goals ................. fair dinkum, how can we pay a coach $1.3 million per annum and accept that sort of performance ??
its the carlton way
Ain't this the truth :
(http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/Carlton/Images/CAR-3041-0515-Sesame-Sreet-Shop-Banner-620x370.jpg)
It's on the club website right now !!
Cowards Football Club.
If I was on the board I would summon Mr Malthouse at 10 am tomorrow and my first question would be; "we are supposed to be rebuilding and you selected David Ellard over Nick Graham. Why?" The second question would be "How long do you need to get your crap from Laidley's new office?".
Just saving some time. ;D
And madbluboy got all offended when you started this thread last week Nostradamus! I say 'well played sir'!
Worst performance I've witnessed from a Carlton team for over 10 years. There's no coming back from this, as a new low-bar has been set by this sorry excuse for a football team.
The fact that anyone thought the result would be any different is the real worry.
I didn't watch, got better things to do.
Did i hear 16,000 at the ground.
We will be dead in 5 years.
I'm embarrassed to support this heartless group , no pride it doesn't take talent to throw yourself into the game plenty of of ordinary players have got the most out of themselves by playing with spirit and energy we have neither . Can't keep going like this something has to happen, we are rock bottom
just back from the game and wont be returning this year. A dispirited performance.
did somebody say cripps played a great game - unless I've lost my mind, I didnt see him at all.
Tutt, Ellard, Wood, Dick........my god, what has it all come to.
Very disappointing..
The worst part is that I am not expecting this to turn around for the rest of the season....
Going to a be a sad few months..
did somebody say cripps played a great game - unless I've lost my mind, I didnt see him at all.
Pulled out before the game
Is Fail Thomas the embodiment of everything that's wrong at Carlton right now?
Is Fail Thomas the embodiment of everything that's wrong at Carlton right now?
Yes.
I reckon it says something about the shock of that effort that we have about 30 odd folk viewing this thread and yet we've only just ticked over to the second page.
Folk are genuinely in a state of despair.
Where do we go from here? This is as low as the club has been for many, many, many years. I haven't missed seeing Carlton play a H&A game in Melbourne for nearly 25 years, but this run might be broken this coming Friday night......today's performance could be the last straw for me for a little while, I'm over this, I really am. They clearly don't care anymore......and as of now, neither do I.....
Speechless.
Yes Principal LODS, folks would be speechless. And hurting. Even in the darkest days of the Pagan era our Membership never dwindled.
I mentioned in another thread that any inaction from the Board now will only be viewed as 'Neroesque'. They've been good at telling us what they will no longer do (quick fixes etc) but have give us nothing positive; no vision. How low will membership go down? How long will match day crowds continue to dwindle? How long will we tolerate watching the very spirit of the players fade to a shadow? Perhaps all this is an accurate reflection of the Board?
Is Fail Thomas the embodiment of everything that's wrong at Carlton right now?
Sorry but I have to laugh at that. ;D
From today's side Rowe, White, Jaksch, Dick, Curnow, Casboult, Armfield, Tutt, Watson and Ellard aren't up to AFL standard as footballers and a couple of others are borderline.
Does anyone seriously expect us to win matches with that many spuds in the team?
Jamison, Henderson, Walker and Kreuzer will improve us but only marginally and apart from Cripps there are no outstanding prospects at the club.
The next few years will be bleak no matter who is senior coach and unless we get rid of the imbecile who traded pick 7 for Jaksch it will be more than a few years.
Even in the darkest days of the Pagan era our Membership never dwindled.
I was talking to my daughter about that today, we didn't miss a game in our wooden spoon years but can't be bothered turning up now.
We both figured that back then our good years were fresh in the mind and we still expected to turn the corner, but now after more than a dozen years of failure the hope has gone and a sad resignation has set in.
.....unless we get rid of the imbecile who traded pick 7 for Jaksch it will be more than a few years.
He is the worst footballer I've seen play AFL for quite some time......a deadset clueless spud, with no skills whatsoever. Wtf were we thinking trading for this gump?
SoS picked Jacks...
I was talking to my daughter about that today, we didn't miss a game in our wooden spoon years but can't be bothered turning up now.
We both figured that back then our good years were fresh in the mind and we still expected to turn the corner, but now after more than a dozen years of failure the hope has gone and a sad resignation has set in.
Yep, we may be witnessing the final glimmers of hope finally dying out. There's nothing at the club or coming out of the club to give us hope. Board conflicted and seemingly visionless, CEO who came to us with a cloud over his head and thus far has proven himself great at marketing fluff but little else... and a bunch of coaches who just make you wonder who appointed them and why.
OMG listen to you guys carry on would ya?? It can all turn around very very quickly. I have faith in my club. All we need is a change in direction. We will be back. Let's just hope the board expedite the process of change.
OMG listen to you guys carry on would ya?? It can all turn around very very quickly. I have faith in my club. All we need is a change in direction. We will be back. Let's just hope the board expedite the process of change.
Reported to mods for having hope
But seriously, dont drink the CfC Kool-aid, its tainted with fail, a decade of recruiting fail
What crap me to tears was whenever a GWS player had the ball there were always numerous options for them. You could see their structures working to create those options.
Contrast with us who had the option of kicking it across the ground or to a contest which wasn't in our favour.
78 inside 50s. Is that close to a record?
... and a bunch of coaches who just make you wonder who appointed them and why.
The current senior coach was appointed on reputation alone, the senior coach before him was appointed because he was a club legend and already working for us, the senior coach before him was appointed as a last gasp effort by a dying board and president and the senior coach before him was appointed by the coach who preceded him.
A recipe for success?
I think not.
A horrible reality is that had the GWS been cleaner with their disposals etc they could have and should have won by 100+
Last week MM commented that we'd hit rock bottom... well, we're amazing at something... the ability to redefine rock bottom on a weekly basis.
PI2C... I won't be giving up on the club or tearing up membership or anything like that, but you have to face the reality that this club at just about every level oozes failure in just about every area you can fail in this business. And this, when you have a truly great brand is just beyond comprehension. Might be time for the AFL to step in.
Good grief, where does one start with this mob. Must say i enjoyed watching the giants at times. They have some fine players and watching Cameron play is like seeing a young Carey.
Anyway, back to our VFL cast offs...
Little run made for no confidence going forward and spent much of the game trapped. We are the worst kicking side in the league bar none now. We win clearences and contests but give up the ball so easily. There were hardly any times we strung 3 plus posessions together when going forward, indicating a lazy midfield and a terrible paucity of options forward.
As for the better players, it is slim pickings. Gibbs was probably the stand out, winning plenty of clearences and laying tackles. He worked hard. Bell, Casboult, Judd worked hard and got a few rewards. Menzel did ok. In hindsight, Rowe battled, and with the service to Cameron, only having 5 kicked on him was about even. Curnow ran hard, and created opportunities, but his poor kicking and decision making negates his running efforts. Yarran was angry and frustrated and hardly surprising really.
The lack of tackling and general pressure was awful today. Everitt is a one effort player. Wood, Carrazzo, Armfield, Ellard had little effect or impact. And hopefully the Watson experiment is over for good. He is not and never will be a league footballer. He was an odd selection and confirms that draft as a bust for us.
As mentioned, the kicking is just deplorable. There was one passage of play when White delivered the ball low, fast and flat to Casboult who took a good mark and goaled. This was the only bit of genuine quality 2015 league footy. Most other kicks forward were high up and unders, giving forwards no chance. Terrible football.
Where to now? It's only round 7 and we are the league easy beats. Am glad I am living on the other side of the world so I have an excuse to not turn up each week. Watching it on the telly means other more pleasurable things can be done like cleaning the oven and tripping over the kids' toys.
Next week we try try again.
Gibbs was garbage....
..
Gibbs was garbage....
No he wasn't. He's improved dramatically over the past 2 weeks... funny bloke though in that his clearances and so on, though plentiful are without fanfare so you don't notice. He was good, very good today.
No he wasn't. He's improved dramatically over the past 2 weeks... funny bloke though in that his clearances and so on, though plentiful are without fanfare so you don't notice. He was good, very good today.
I disagree...I was at the game which means I dont see things when yiu watch the tv...he was running in spaces and doesnt take the game by the scruff of the neck....like murphy. ..watch Treloar he killed em for speed and hardness
And hopefully the Watson experiment is over for good. He is not and never will be a league footballer. He was an odd selection and confirms that draft as a bust for us.
And yet we've persevered with him for 5 years, and now every other club knows he's no good so we can't get a cracker for him at the trade table.
It's the story of our life, keep duds on the books for so long that we become accustomed to them.
Gibbs was good Mossie. 10 clearances. Most on the ground.
And yet we've persevered with him for 5 years, and now every other club knows he's no good so we can't get a cracker for him at the trade table.
It's the story of our life, keep duds on the books for so long that we become accustomed to them.
Persevering would've been giving him a go.
I really don't see how this confirms him as no good, not exactly the best game to judge him on.
Persevering would've been giving him a go.
I really don't see how this confirms him as no good, not exactly the best game to judge him on.
Successful clubs know when to cut their losses and trade players out while they still have currency, it's an absolute miracle we got anything for Hampson but we'll get nothing for Watson.
What crap me to tears was whenever a GWS player had the ball there were always numerous options for them. You could see their structures working to create those options.
Contrast with us who had the option of kicking it across the ground or to a contest which wasn't in our favour.
78 inside 50s. Is that close to a record?
Don't be confusing structures with simple hard running. They did it. We didn't.
Unfortunately i was at the game. Not a whole lot of positives to come out of the game for us.
We played a loose man in defence for a large part of the game, and it didn't help us.
I'm sure the kick to kick on the backline pissed everyone off watching it on TV, well blame the players further up the ground. Everyone simply standing there, nobody presenting.
It was either...
- kick to a 50-50 along the boundary
- kick to a 2-on-1 down the middle
- Kick sideways to a free man
We chose the last option more often than not, with a sprinkling of the second option.
IF for some weird reason we were able to get the ball out of defence quickly, we were caught with our pants down as all 36 players were in our backline. So many time we started to break the lines and looked up and had not a single person to kick too. We had to put the breaks on and kick sideways or try and kick it to space and run onto it. But, as mentioned earlier, we refused to run hard and GWS always were the first back to mop up....usually with plenty of extra numbers to help out.
Our run/spread from stoppages is pretty much non-existent.
GWS' run/spread would be on a par with the best in the game. Its no surprise that they beat the hawks last week.
I know it's depressing that we lost to the n00bs by so much, but if i could borrow a quote from Mick "We played a very good football side tonight"
@B4L
Successful clubs at least take the time to give a first rounder a fair crack at a career.
Gibbs was good Mossie. 10 clearances. Most on the ground.
Ok good...hope we get something for a trade...
@B4L
Successful clubs at least take the time to give a first rounder a fair crack at a career.
we're successful....i keep telling myself
Gibbs was good Mossie. 10 clearances. Most on the ground.
10 clearances, perhaps....zero influence around the ground. Don't think he got out of 2nd gear at any point.
Didn't have many friends at the ground i can tell ya.
Was there a game on? What happened, did we win?
10 clearances, perhaps....zero influence around the ground. Don't think he got out of 2nd gear at any point.
Didn't have many friends at the ground i can tell ya.
I'd say 10 clearances is having a fair influence around the ground.
I guess I was also influenced by his stats, they were very good and the commentators were complimentary of his performance. Watching the game I thought he was much better than a few weeks back. But I do agree that for some odd reason he just doesn't seem to hurt opposition sides with his numerous possessions.
10 clearances, perhaps....zero influence around the ground. Don't think he got out of 2nd gear at any point.
Didn't have many friends at the ground i can tell ya.
Thanks krudds at least we can agree on something...gibbs is a lazy light one dimensional footballer that doesnt inspire a group of men...
Persevering would've been giving him a go.
I really don't see how this confirms him as no good, not exactly the best game to judge him on.
Fair point, it is unfair to judge after one game. But he doesn't look like advancing. He managed just 3 touches for the game. When he got near the ball he was out of position and struggling to gain seperation from his opponent. He doesn't get off the ground much, nor does he run enough to create space. For a bloke his size and age he should have been playing much stronger in the seconds consistently but he is not. He got a game because we are bereft of forward options. He may play again next week, but for a player on his last chance it is difficult to see a bright future.
@B4L
Successful clubs at least take the time to give a first rounder a fair crack at a career.
Mitch Thorpe, pick 6 at the 2006 draft, played 2 senior games for Hawthorn, delisted in 2009.
Fair point, it is unfair to judge after one game. But he doesn't look like advancing. He managed just 3 touches for the game. When he got near the ball he was out of position and struggling to gain seperation from his opponent. He doesn't get off the ground much, nor does he run enough to create space. For a bloke his size and age he should have been playing much stronger in the seconds consistently but he is not. He got a game because we are bereft of forward options. He may play again next week, but for a player on his last chance it is difficult to see a bright future.
When you put it like that it's hard to argue but I just want to see him play five games straight, just like Jones did. We owe it to ourselves as a club.
10 clearances, perhaps....zero influence around the ground. Don't think he got out of 2nd gear at any point.
Didn't have many friends at the ground i can tell ya.
Football supporters commonly single out the better players when the team is going badly, Richardson copped it for years at Richmond.
People defending Gibbs' performance today......oh purlease, now I've heard it all.....
even Jones is better than what we are seeing.
Our forwards have no hope because they don't get passed the ball.
The ball is kicked in their vicinity, high up and slowly. Only Levi can do something with it, because of his size and his hands.
I'd say 10 clearances is having a fair influence around the ground.
Firstly, i don't consider clearances as being 'around the ground', when i say that term i mean in general play. Not from a stoppage.
Secondly, even using your interpretation, 10 clearances = fair influence.......Not really. I think that stat is becoming very misleading.
Just had a quick look to see if my assumptions were correct before i went into great detail about it.
Basically Cam Wood proves what i'm talking about. Tonight, he had 6 clearances. You know what his clearances were? Grab the ball out of the ruck, and throw it on the boot. He has been doing it all year. Great, we get the clearance, but how often does it actually go to a teammate, how often does it go to our advantage at all?
It's kinda like the hitouts. The number of hitouts players get is essentially an irrelevent stat. The hitouts to advantage is what matters. For the record, Mumford smashed that tonight he had 15 hitouts to advantage halfway through the last quarter. Wood had 2.
Which player had more influence around the ground? Mumford only had 1 clearance but had 4 contested marks and was presenting around the ground a lot more than Wood.
Back to stoppages...
Judd averages more stoppages a game than anyone else on our list.
You know who averages the second most? Yup. Cam Wood.
Carrazzo 3rd
Cripps =4th
Gibbs =4th
Even Warnock averages more clearances than Murphy! Does that make him a better player?
Stoppages are overrated.
Gibbs is overrated.
People defending Gibbs' performance today......oh purlease, now I've heard it all.....
He was clearly our best player today, make of that what you will.
Football supporters commonly single out the better players when the team is going badly, Richardson copped it for years at Richmond.
To paraphrase Barrassi. "You give me EFFORT and i'll shutup!"
I'm not one to jump on Gibbs every week, but after watching him coast around tonight, i can't let him get commended for it. He is much better than that.
He was clearly our best player today, make of that what you will.
Is that opinion or fact? I'd suggest the former.
He was clearly our best player today, make of that what you will.
The boy can play and can certainly kick it well when he wants to.
There was only 8 players on the ground tonight (from both sides) that had worse disposal efficiency than him. Remember all those clearances he had....shows not many of them went to a teammate. ;)
Stoppages are overrated.
Gibbs is overrated.
Most of the players on our list are over rated by Carlton supporters, only about four or five would make it onto Hawthorn's senior list but I think Gibbs would be one of them.
Is that opinion or fact? I'd suggest the former.
Opinion obviously Brettie, in your opinion who was better?
@kruddler
Cam Wood is clearly not the player Bryce Gibbs is. To use Wood's clearances as an example of why Gibbs' clearances would be of poor quality is just bowling another famous kruddler wrongun.
@kruddler
Cam Wood is clearly not the player Bryce Gibbs is. To use Wood's clearances as an example of why Gibbs' clearances would be of poor quality is just bowling another famous kruddler wrongun.
Simply saying that high clearance number does not equal a great game.
Also showing that Gibbs low disposal efficiency suggests for an elite kick he had trouble finding teammates.
If it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck....
The boy can play and can certainly kick it well when he wants to.
There was only 8 players on the ground tonight (from both sides) that had worse disposal efficiency than him. Remember all those clearances he had....shows not many of them went to a teammate. ;)
A lot of his disposals were under pressure, he also laid plenty of tackles.
It wasn't his best game by a long way but I still thought he was our best player on the day, which only shows how woeful we were as a team.
It's not even worth debating any more.
A lot of his disposals were under pressure, he also laid plenty of tackles.
It wasn't his best game by a long way but I still thought he was our best player on the day, which only shows how woeful we were as a team.
Lots of tackles = second to the ball.
IMO Judd was our best today.
When he had the ball, he put it to a teammates advantage. His kick into the forwardline to someone who was running back towards the pocket and caught it over his shoulder (Everitt?) was sublime and nobody else on the ground would've even thought to do that. Judd also kicked 2 goals and had 3 inside 50's. Had 3 more touches compared to Gibbs too. Still had 5 clearances for people who still rate them.
He made a difference around the ground.
Betts & Garlett 9.4.58
Defeated
Carlton 9.3.57
This made me laugh.
Simply saying that high clearance number does not equal a great game.
Also showing that Gibbs low disposal efficiency suggests for an elite kick he had trouble finding teammates.
If it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck....
I watched the game, I thought he was good. You don't see the inside work as clearly at the ground as you do on TV. Maybe give it another watch on TV if you can stand the pain.
This game has to be close to the straw that broke the camels back. Is mick gone after this game. The connection between the coach and the players have me completely confused. I know I watch the game and we are becoming so much defending first, that taking a high risk to run the ball for a reward is almost a non event. I definitely saw far fewer tackles than what I have watched in seasons past. The intensity of the game is something we have lost across all the players. Our defenders watch the players they are told to guard and don't watch the ball in flight coming towards them. No wonder they find themselves out of position. How many times today did a GWS forward not need to take a contested mark. Mainly because the defender was out of position and couldn't spoil the football if they wanted to. Please people tell me I am talking rubbish and I must be imagining things. Why don't we run hard both ways. Why don't we run in numbers to support other players on the run? Why don't more of our players lead to free space?
Is this rock bottom yet? What are we going to do against Geelong, Sydney and Adelaide in the next 3 games ? Are we even going to offer a yelp in return for the pressure we will see placed on our players ? If anyone told me before the season start we would be 0-9 by our break, I would have told them to shut up. That they have no faith in a side that has potential. I was seriously wrong with where I thought this team is heading. Are they tanking? Please tell me it isn't happening again. At this rate a few seniors will be traded for sure. Not sure who, but Murphy, Gibbs are 2 that might need to worry. The spot light on them from the media could force our club to make some changes. Mick, you might not have a job soon. Caretaker could be in place by mid season. I see no improvements from last season. None at all. Its only my opinion, but I am certain a few feel the same way. >:(
Mick's upping the ante this week. Apparently, GWS aren't just a "very good " football side, they're an "awesome" football side.
Talked about the huge difference in class.
Said some of our players are robotic.
The last thing he says to the players as they head up the race is "play the game."
Mick's upping the ante this week. Apparently, GWS aren't just a "very good " football side, they're an "awesome" football side.
Talked about the huge difference in class.
Said some of our players are robotic.
The last thing he says to the players as they head up the race is "play the game."
Externalizes every problem.
Mick "It's not me" Malthouse.
Maybe give it another watch on TV if you can stand the pain.
Mate, i barely got through it the first time, and i was there....no way in hell i'm going to put myself through that crape again!
Gibbs wasnt our worst but just doesnt impact enough or change games...Treloar from GWS seemed to be in the middle of all their attacking moves and
was a prime mover. Gibbs games are never games you would describe as being that of a prime mover that makes things happen and initiates attacks.
We were insipid today and losing is now a acceptable outcome to the players who apart from old man Judd showed little heart or pride and its hard to actually comment
on such a weak and dispirited group that cannot fight back and surrender so easily.... :-[ :( >:(
Mick's upping the ante this week. Apparently, GWS aren't just a "very good " football side, they're an "awesome" football side.
Talked about the huge difference in class.
Said some of our players are robotic.
The last thing he says to the players as they head up the race is "play the game."
I'd agree with him. As i said earlier, the way they played the game is about as well as anyone can play the game. If they can stay relatively fit and healthy, they will do some damage in september. Get some money on them for the flag in 2016.....and 2017...and 2018...
Lots of tackles = second to the ball.
IMO Judd was our best today.
When he had the ball, he put it to a teammates advantage. His kick into the forwardline to someone who was running back towards the pocket and caught it over his shoulder (Everitt?) was sublime and nobody else on the ground would've even thought to do that. Judd also kicked 2 goals and had 3 inside 50's. Had 3 more touches compared to Gibbs too. Still had 5 clearances for people who still rate them.
He made a difference around the ground.
Fair call Kruds, for me it was between the two of them but I thought Gibbs did more of the heavy lifting, I thought Murphy was pretty good as well and Yarran and Tuohy at least hit the ball hard.
After that lot it was hard to find anyone who even held their own, Carrazzo's first half was good and Bell kept running and trying to attack, but we just didn't have many options, none of our talls fired a shot.
Too many scrubbers in the side, pure and simple.
I'd agree with him. As i said earlier, the way they played the game is about as well as anyone can play the game. If they can stay relatively fit and healthy, they will do some damage in september. Get some money on them for the flag in 2016.....and 2017...and 2018...
Yep, Their biggest challenge is keeping the list together. By the same token, I can't see any of their top line players wanting to leave. Why would any player want to play elsewhere ?
Yep, Their biggest challenge is keeping the list together. By the same token, I can't see any of their top line players wanting to leave. Why would any player want to play elsewhere ?
Yep, after today we can forget about SOS raiding their list. We might have a chance with their delistings, that's about it - providing no other club makes an offer.
I noticed something today that had me thinking. I don't feel our squad trust each other in their own abilities. Tutt received the ball a few times and rang like a weapon after passing it to another player, to then get forward of the centre and free in space. Hands in the air to get the pill passed to him and he was completely ignored. It wasn't just once and he looked like he might have some pace. I don't rate him yet because I haven't seen enough of his game. If this continues he will never become a player.
Opinion obviously Brettie, in your opinion who was better?
To be honest, I don't care. Being at the ground, Judd for mine was the one who appeared to give a damn and play to something close to what could be considered an acceptable standard, but you could see in his body language that he was labouring as the game wore on, having to pick up the slack of the useless spuds around him. Geez I felt sorry for the great man today, he must be regretting every minute his decision to play on this year, as at the time he clearly felt like his teammates were all on the same page in the latter stages of last season, only to have been hoodwinked. Gonna be a sad end to a magnificent career in a team sense.
Yep, Their biggest challenge is keeping the list together. By the same token, I can't see any of their top line players wanting to leave. Why would any player want to play elsewhere ?
They have plenty of first rounders not getting a game. Hopefully SOS knows which ones are worth chasing and which are the numpties.
screwers still have Patton to come back too.
I noticed something today that had me thinking. I don't feel our squad trust each other in their own abilities. Tutt received the ball a few times and rang like a weapon after passing it to another player, to then get forward of the centre and free in space. Hands in the air to get the pill passed to him and he was completely ignored. It wasn't just once and he looked like he might have some pace. I don't rate him yet because I haven't seen enough of his game. If this continues he will never become a player.
Not only do they not believe in each other, they also have a higher opinion of their own abilities than they should.
Getting the stuffing knocked out of you should send a message but I think everyone externalises the issue at our club.
United. It's just a word if you don't play or act that way.
To be honest, I don't care. Being at the ground, Judd for mine was the one who appeared to give a damn and play to something close to what could be considered an acceptable standard, but you could see in his body language that he was labouring as the game wore on, having to pick up the slack of the useless spuds around him. Geez I felt sorry for the great man today, he must be regretting every minute his decision to play on this year, as at the time he clearly felt like his teammates were all on the same page in the latter stages of last season, only to have been hoodwinked. Gonna be a sad end to a magnificent career in a team sense.
I was thinking exactly the same thing during the last quarter.
The chances of him playing again next season are approaching zero and he's still our best player, we haven't hit bottom yet.
They have plenty of first rounders not getting a game. Hopefully SOS knows which ones are worth chasing and which are the numpties.
screwers still have Patton to come back too.
I hope you're right .
Thomas strolls around the ground not giving a Feck about anything. Has his $700 per year. He is happy.
Irks me.
The performances so far this year (at least in Oz) have me thinking back wistfully to the team of rejects that Pagan cobbled together - at least they had a go.
Thomas strolls around the ground not giving a Feck about anything. Has his $700 per year. He is happy.
Irks me.
How does Thomas get a game ahead of Buckley or Graham who bust a nut when they get a run? That's right he kicks the ball to Malthouse in the change rooms.
Cam Wood has been a great pick up Mick and cost us f#@k all, Thomas cost us Eddie you f#@kwit!!
To be honest, I don't care. Being at the ground, Judd for mine was the one who appeared to give a damn and play to something close to what could be considered an acceptable standard, but you could see in his body language that he was labouring as the game wore on, having to pick up the slack of the useless spuds around him. Geez I felt sorry for the great man today, he must be regretting every minute his decision to play on this year, as at the time he clearly felt like his teammates were all on the same page in the latter stages of last season, only to have been hoodwinked. Gonna be a sad end to a magnificent career in a team sense.
Yeah I don't feel sorry for Juddy guys. Multi millionaire, premiership, multiple brownlows, putting away that prime piece of steak when he wants. Juddy has it all. It is a shame that he has to play his last season in a lifeless side but I guess Juddy was one to really sink the boots in when Ratts got the ass so you have to wonder if he learned a lesson about the grass always being greener and perhaps not speaking too soon.
I noticed something today that had me thinking. I don't feel our squad trust each other in their own abilities. Tutt received the ball a few times and rang like a weapon after passing it to another player, to then get forward of the centre and free in space. Hands in the air to get the pill passed to him and he was completely ignored. It wasn't just once and he looked like he might have some pace. I don't rate him yet because I haven't seen enough of his game. If this continues he will never become a player.
Carlton have been doing that for many years. It's like playing in the juniors, you won't kick it to the little guy because you know he won't mark it. FFS, they are all professional footballers.
Very clicky groups down there at Princes park. You are either in or are on the outer.
Yeah I don't feel sorry for Juddy guys. Multi millionaire, premiership, multiple brownlows, putting away that prime piece of steak when he wants. Juddy has it all. It is a shame that he has to play his last season in a lifeless side but I guess Juddy was one to really sink the boots in when Ratts got the ass so you have to wonder if he learned a lesson about the grass always being greener and perhaps not speaking too soon.
Its all about money with you isn't it.
Mick is earning too much money.
Daisy is earning too much money.
Can't feel sorry for judd because he's earned so much money.
Judd earned that money because he worked his backside off, putting in week in week out on and off the field. He completely changed the way he played the game to try and get our side up off their knees. He then sacrificed his wage to stay on so we could sign up our kids. Sacrificed it again to play on for one more year.
Judd has sacrificed a lot to try and help this club. It's a damn shame that he bleeds bluer than most of our list and will probably have fonder memories of West Coast instead of us.
Judd deserves a lot better than what we have given him and i definitely feel sorry for him.
I noticed something today that had me thinking. I don't feel our squad trust each other in their own abilities. Tutt received the ball a few times and rang like a weapon after passing it to another player, to then get forward of the centre and free in space. Hands in the air to get the pill passed to him and he was completely ignored. It wasn't just once and he looked like he might have some pace. I don't rate him yet because I haven't seen enough of his game. If this continues he will never become a player.
Have been thinking similar for a while, only looking after each other , no TEAM in there thought pattern. No doing the 1% things , just grab a stat
Money is just part of it. Juddy has led a very successful life. No need to feel sorry for him, he's fulfilled his potential in every way he could.
I feel sorry for the club and us as supporters, what we have been through, what mismanagement has done to our club, what we have to look forward to.
Money is just part of it. Juddy has led a very successful life. No need to feel sorry for him, he's fulfilled his potential in every way he could.
I feel sorry for the club and us as supporters, what we have been through, what mismanagement has done to our club, what we have to look forward to.
We sat on our collective arse while Elliott sent the club broke and paid a million dollars over the salary cap to a wooden spoon team, then sat mute again while a weak kneed board led by Smorgon blundered through three of four lost years, and it's led to this.
There's no one to blame but ourselves, it's in the hands of the members to elect good management.
Just watched Carrazzo's post game interview on the club website. If you take it at face value the guys literally have no idea about what the causes of the problems might be. All he can say is that they have to just work harder both in their preparation and in the games themselves.
We are missing some vital pieces of the jigsaw of being at least competitive and I fear that just working harder, well meaning as that may be, won't help us to find them.
I don't want to feel sorry for anyone at Carlton: I am tired of that. I want us to be back in a position where everyone feels envious of us. To have some numnuts following GWS for 5 minutes sit back in the crowd and mock us was embarrassing.
There will be consequences from this game.
[1] The Judge may become the President with the least tenure in Carlton history if things remain as they are. He knows it. He has made some changes but we have yet to see the benefit from them.
[2] We have destroyed the coaching career of 2 of the greatest coaches in VFL/AFL history. Malthouse is a dead man walking as a coach. The players are not playing for him. It is clear because of the total lack of passion that our players have on the field. Malthouse probably knows it and it irks him. He is not a happy chappy.
I do not know if it is all his fault: the inside workings of the club are something I am not privy to. Whether he is the cause or not, he will take the responsibility. He will either quit or his contract will not be renewed. As such he will be unfulfilled as a coach as he will go out very much on a low.
[3] There are a number of players on our list whose careers are in terminal shape. Yes, we can identify that we lack develop and recruiting prowess, but the guys on our list have to take some responsibility. There will be changes.
Judd will retire at the end of the season. There is nothing for him left to play for with our list in its present shape.
Carrots may feel the same way: he has been excellent for us, but he is nearing the end and has no hope of seeing a successful final's campaign.
Simmo may pull up stumps, although he may be able to be convinced otherwise by a new coaching panel.
There are then our underperformers and the borderline cases. There will be changes here as well.
There will be more changes as well. It is going to be some time yet before we recover. I hate that.
putting away that prime piece of steak when he wants. Juddy has it all.
Shouldn't talk about his Mrs like that Carrots!
Shouldn't talk about his Mrs like that Carrots!
Give me a negative karma! :P
I don't want to feel sorry for anyone at Carlton: I am tired of that. I want us to be back in a position where everyone feels envious of us. To have some numnuts following GWS for 5 minutes sit back in the crowd and mock us was embarrassing.
There will be consequences from this game.
[1] The Judge may become the President with the least tenure in Carlton history if things remain as they are. He knows it. He has made some changes but we have yet to see the benefit from them.
[2] We have destroyed the coaching career of 2 of the greatest coaches in VFL/AFL history. Malthouse is a dead man walking as a coach. The players are not playing for him. It is clear because of the total lack of passion that our players have on the field. Malthouse probably knows it and it irks him. He is not a happy chappy.
I do not know if it is all his fault: the inside workings of the club are something I am not privy to. Whether he is the cause or not, he will take the responsibility. He will either quit or his contract will not be renewed. As such he will be unfulfilled as a coach as he will go out very much on a low.
[3] There are a number of players on our list whose careers are in terminal shape. Yes, we can identify that we lack develop and recruiting prowess, but the guys on our list have to take some responsibility. There will be changes.
Judd will retire at the end of the season. There is nothing for him left to play for with our list in its present shape.
Carrots may feel the same way: he has been excellent for us, but he is nearing the end and has no hope of seeing a successful final's campaign.
Simmo may pull up stumps, although he may be able to be convinced otherwise by a new coaching panel.
There are then our underperformers and the borderline cases. There will be changes here as well.
There will be more changes as well. It is going to be some time yet before we recover. I hate that.
Thank you, Captain CRASH. I love reading your contributions... nothing hysterical, just rationally expressed observations.
I totally agree with all you wrote above. For what it's worth, I do not for a second believe our list is 'that' bad. If you ripped the confidence out of any group of young men, you would get something very similar to what we have delivered for most of this year.
No ones list is that bad, you cannot even begin to judge a list's ability when they re so uninspired. That's why blokes like Jonno Brown need to shut the fork up.
We have destroyed the coaching career of 2 of the greatest coaches in VFL/AFL history.
This.
Pagan took North to 12 consecutive finals appearances and two premierships with no money, poxy facilities and bugger all members, he built a gun side from the ground up.
Malthouse has succeeded at three separate clubs taking two of them to premierships, his last at Collingwood with a team of battlers with a sprinkling of top line talent.
Yet they both get to Carlton and our players won't play for them, you have to ask yourself why we are so different and whether the difference is why we have failed for over a decade and continue to fail.
It's about time we stopped looking for scapegoats and looked at ourselves in the mirror if you ask me.
They have both come to Carlton with the wrong attitudes and for the wrong reasons. They have both become frustrated and impatient and have been unable to behave or coach rationally. The only bloke that came with the right attitude and for the right reason was going fine until he was sacked. The whole thing has nothing to do with the club and everything to do with the coach.
The whole thing has nothing to do with the club and everything to do with the coach.
That's your call, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
That's your call, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Makes perfect sense, I just described it in the previous post. You're not going to sit there and tell me either of the two coaches you mentioned took their respective jobs for the right reasons are you? Or that they walked into the club prepared for the task at hand? That they have shown humility or been willing to accept any of the blame? That they have displayed any patience with the playing group? They they brought over anything that resembled a decent gameplan? No they've done nothing of the sort, and here is the end result. The only bloke that actually DID something you AMAZINGLY put the blame on and say was the worst of the lot!!
Give me a negative karma! :P
I think you've got a world record already. :P
I think you've got a world record already. :P
hey..,what about me C:-) C:-) C:-)
hey..,what about me C:-) C:-) C:-)
You are just not following the prescribed wisdom Mossie - the propaganda machine is relentless and you will pay in karma! Goebbels was an amateur! ;) :))
You are just not following the prescribed wisdom Mossie - the propaganda machine is relentless and you will pay in karma! Goebbels was an amateur! ;) :))
i was never a participant in group think, so its a badge of honor ;D :)) C:-) O0
They have both come to Carlton with the wrong attitudes and for the wrong reasons. They have both become frustrated and impatient and have been unable to behave or coach rationally. The only bloke that came with the right attitude and for the right reason was going fine until he was sacked. The whole thing has nothing to do with the club and everything to do with the coach.
You've a terrific sense of humour. ;)
God, I seriously underestimated how bad we are when I predicted us losing by 10 goals. Didn't go but I'll be taking my medicine this Friday night. Can't be helped. Promised people, yada, yada. Anyway, as I said I didn't go but I just saw the highlights reel on the footy show and unfortunately the 'm going all out and making the call now. Unless the coach gets the flick this week we will go down by +100. Make no mistake.
God, I seriously underestimated how bad we are when I predicted us losing by 10 goals. Didn't go but I'll be taking my medicine this Friday night. Can't be helped. Promised people, yada, yada. Anyway, as I said I didn't go but I just saw the highlights reel on the footy show and unfortunately the 'm going all out and making the call now. Unless the coach gets the flick this week we will go down by +100. Make no mistake.
You know what really worries me - what if we were to ditch the coach this week, could you guarantee we wouldn't lose by 100+ anyway?
That's your call, but it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Wooden spoons--------5th--------back heading to a wooden spoon.
That make any sense?
Guess who got us 5th. Guess who dropped us to the bottom. There's no argument, you can't argue with the final arbitrator, the results. We didn't kill off two of the greatest coaches of all time, they did it themselves with poor, outdated methods. doesn't matter how good you are, the game changes and if you don't keep up you go from great to poor very quickly. Rodney Eade is learning that quickly too.
You've a terrific sense of humour. ;)
He's right though. Actually the only one of them you thought wasn't any good and wanted him to get the sack was easily the most successful. Lose the players you lose the lot.
You know what really worries me - what if we were to ditch the coach this week, could you guarantee we wouldn't lose by 100+ anyway?
We need to see them trying as a starting point. Results later, right now it's all in the toilet.
This.
Pagan took North to 12 consecutive finals appearances and two premierships with no money, poxy facilities and bugger all members, he built a gun side from the ground up.
Malthouse has succeeded at three separate clubs taking two of them to premierships, his last at Collingwood with a team of battlers with a sprinkling of top line talent.
Yet they both get to Carlton and our players won't play for them, you have to ask yourself why we are so different and whether the difference is why we have failed for over a decade and continue to fail.
It's about time we stopped looking for scapegoats and looked at ourselves in the mirror if you ask me.
Yes, and like the Picture of Dorian Gray, we will not like what we see.
However, there seems to be some sense coming out of the leaders' offices, so I can hope. But our on field woes need serious surgery and soon.
Makes perfect sense, I just described it in the previous post. You're not going to sit there and tell me either of the two coaches you mentioned took their respective jobs for the right reasons are you? Or that they walked into the club prepared for the task at hand? That they have shown humility or been willing to accept any of the blame? That they have displayed any patience with the playing group? They they brought over anything that resembled a decent gameplan? No they've done nothing of the sort, and here is the end result. The only bloke that actually DID something you AMAZINGLY put the blame on and say was the worst of the lot!!
If everything you say about Pagan and Malthouse is true then how and why did they get the job in the first place?
We must have the most incompetent, dysfunctional administration in the history of the game to make such monumental blunders, yet according to you there's no problem at the club and it's all down to Mick.
Not only the above, but also according to you we sacked the only bloke who was doing a good job.
The only way your scenario can add up is if the CFC is the most amateurish organisation in world sport, which I readily concede is a possibility.
Guess who got us 5th.
Malthouse got us to 6th and we finished 10th in Ratten's last year, but so what?
We were never a threat under Ratten no matter what his boosters say, and now we are paying the price for 15 years of abysmal recruiting.
Jock McHale, Ron Barassi and Leigh Matthews combined couldn't conjure wins out of the sorry group we send out on the weekend.
Sack the coach by all means, I'm past caring, but if you think things will turn around in a couple of years you're deluded.
Malthouse got us to 6th and we finished 10th in Ratten's last year, but so what?
We were never a threat under Ratten no matter what his boosters say, and now we are paying the price for 15 years of abysmal recruiting.
Jock McHale, Ron Barassi and Leigh Matthews combined couldn't conjure wins out of the sorry group we send out on the weekend.
Sack the coach by all means, I'm past caring, but if you think things will turn around in a couple of years you're deluded.
Bravo. Could not agree more.
We were never a threat under Ratten no matter what his boosters say, and now we are paying the price for 15 years of abysmal recruiting
We also weren't the worst team going around - which looks like the crown we could have going by the current scores in the Brisbane game.
We'll never know what Ratten could have done
We sacked him
Once you do that you lose your ability to make a call
(Unless your Nostradamus)
You can't just assume he wouldn't have learned and improved as the years went by.
Malthouse got us to 6th and we finished 10th in Ratten's last year, but so what?
We were never a threat under Ratten no matter what his boosters say, and now we are paying the price for 15 years of abysmal recruiting.
Jock McHale, Ron Barassi and Leigh Matthews combined couldn't conjure wins out of the sorry group we send out on the weekend.
Sack the coach by all means, I'm past caring, but if you think things will turn around in a couple of years you're deluded.
Yes, we did get 6th...after finishing 9th. Then went totally downhill
Let me get this, Weren't a threat under Ratten but you seem "happy" enough to keep Mick when we're about to be on the bottom of the ladder going by current scores today in Brisbane. you know something. I'm much happier with not being a threat under Ratten coming 5th than Mick on the bottom.
We have Walker, Menzel, Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Simpson, Kreuzer, Cripps, Yarran, Docherty, Rowe, Henderson, Bell, Graham, Everitt, Thomas, Jamison, Casboult, Touhy, Carazzo. Decent enough. About 7, 8 or 9 places short of where that type of list should be. Of course someone half decent would conjure plenty of wins out of that. So, despite abysmal recruiting, getting 5th then would be a pretty fair achievement.
Plus he had Betts, Waite and Garlett and he let them go.
Some struggle to admit they are wrong even when it hits them like a wet fish in the face.
We have Walker, Menzel, Murphy, Gibbs, Judd, Simpson, Kreuzer, Cripps, Yarran, Docherty, Rowe, Henderson, Bell, Graham, Everitt, Thomas, Jamison, Casboult, Touhy, Carazzo. Decent enough. About 7, 8 or 9 places short of where that type of list should be. Of course someone half decent would conjure plenty of wins out of that. So, despite abysmal recruiting, getting 5th then would be a pretty fair achievement.
Ask yourself how many of those players would get a game at Hawthorn, my best guess is three.
Rowe, Graham and Casboult are hacks, Kreuzer is never fit, Carrazzo, Thomas and Simpson are finished and Walker seems to be on the way, and the rest apart from Judd, Murphy, Gibbs and Yarran are battlers at best.
You've named 20 and included some spuds, we need another two (Ellard, Armfield?), then we need to cover injuries.
Our list is shot and it's the end result of years of incompetence.
When you are playing crap everyone looks crap.
Saying players x,y and z wouldn't get a game with the Hawks is just a guess.
I still remember our '95 premiership team and knew that 6-8 of them would not have got a game with the WCE team (a Malthouse team) but they won a flag.
Saints made two GF's and almost won them both and had 12 guys that wouldn't have got a game with the Cats or Pies.
We have some massive holes, but these performances are worse than the list.
At the moment the players need to give their best efforts to give SOS a real look at who needs to be traded and who needs to stay. Giving some of the players trade value. The entire list or close to, giving extremely poor performances doesn't help the club. What is more important is it doesn't help them remain as football players. Not every delisted player will have a football career. This needs to be understood by the playing group IMO. its not about looking after your own best interest, but being lazy will kill your long term career one day. No clubs like incompetent, lazy footballers. A few can get a new start, but they need to be young and have some X-factor. This is just my view on the matter.
At the moment the players need to give their best efforts to give SOS a real look at who needs to be traded and who needs to stay.
Mate with all due respect, SOS has seen enough. He has already decided who stays and who goes, I have no doubt whatsoever in mind about this.
Gointocarlton, I agree that he has probably seen enough but so have a few other clubs ATM. If we continue to dish up the same rubbish for the rest of the season we will have no chance to trade players out. No clubs will want them. We will lose them for free. This is not fair for the club. We have lost too many for free in the past. Time to try to get a return on a few. At least look like most players have some worth.
Gointocarlton, I agree that he has probably seen enough but so have a few other clubs ATM. If we continue to dish up the same rubbish for the rest of the season we will have no chance to trade players out. No clubs will want them. We will lose them for free. This is not fair for the club. We have lost too many for free in the past. Time to try to get a return on a few. At least look like most players have some worth.
Again mate, with all due respect, what do you mean "no clubs
will want them" ? IMO, we have rubbish no one wants for the large part. The hand full we have that are of any value? We actually need them which means if we trade them, we will be starting from scratch. Its a long road ahead, I just pray we get it right this time. Yes I am resigned to the fact and now accept its a full blown rebuild, ground up. Am I happy about this? F@#$ no, but its time to move forward. Rebuild it and make it the envy of the competition.
GITC,
We have payers that would have been players that other sides would have taken. Gibbs, Murphy, Henderson, Yarran, Jamo, Walker, Curnow, Bell, Kreuzer, Levi, Simpson, White, Betts, Laidler, Warnock, Robinson, Garlett, Touhy, Waite, Menzel, have all had times when they had true value. In a trade they would have returned value back to the club. Sure some of the players are gone. Done and dusted. Returned little to nothing to our club. Some because of the AFL system in place. Especially how the FA system works. Some because we said too much to the media and sold the players to have no value to the club due to culture, which as a stupid idea to say the least.
We lost what we lost and need to get over it. Can't turn the past back to benefit our future. However the way the current squad is playing, we will need to delist more players. We need to turn around our list again. We can't hold on to all our older senior players. Not if they don't show they can tow the line for the next 2 to 3 years. So where are we left then? Holding all the senior players because they are the best we have to build on what? Players need to step up at every level to gain some value. We never know what a club will see in a players potential if they step up. Bell is a classic example. If he continues to plays at his best, another club might see value in him.
Should we trade him? Answer at fist is No. If they offered a 1st round pick for him? The answer would be a different issue. I am not saying he has value, but at the moment he could look to be a player most clubs would want to trade for. All I am saying is that with most players , their value is in the last 8 or so games they play. Many forget what has happened before. Cotchin as an example. Done sweet FA in his first 5 games, and in one game is called a hero of a leader at the club. Why? Because he has shown talent in the past. Just like our players have in the Ratten years. Not to the same extent, but talent way above what they show now.
Our players might show a lack of talent at the moment. However they really show a lack of intent and a lack of a contest. Thomas step forward, along with a list as long as my arm. Its is no longer a case of a coach who can't get his team to play. Its a case of do you want to play footy at AFL level ever again. You are about to get dumped in the sh1t hole of no return. We have no players of any value to other clubs, and the sole reason is that the players don't give a flying feck. They will be the ones that lose in this situation and the players only have themselves to blame, because they don't want to work for their money.
I would bust my right and left one to just have been given a chance to play VFL footy to get a sniff of a chance to play on the MCG in one game of my entire life. Then again I don't expect spoiled pussy players to give a feck about the club either. They have helped find a way to put us in a position to win another wooded spoon. Thanks boys, and thanks Mick, along with the board, feck you all. Sorry GITC not a go at you at all. Just p1ssed at where we are at the moment.
@ Mantis
Hard to argue with most of what you have written. I still don't rate many of our blokes but so be it, thats just a difference of opinion. In Bell's case, I have been a big (if not his biggest) critic in the past. He has shown alot this year so I guess its an example of how form can turn. I tip my hat to the kid and eat humble pie as I was wrong. If he can bring that endeavor every week and drag a few with him, all the better. We all share one thing in common no matter what opinion we have on things, that is a massive frustration of where we are at right now. Surely the tide must turn soon.
Cheers
I still remember our '95 premiership team and knew that 6-8 of them would not have got a game with the WCE team (a Malthouse team) but they won a flag.
Who?
Who?
You can say they were all pretty good players, but I doubt any of them would have been picked up by the WCE. Many of them had deficiencies, but they all played a part.
The key to '95 was A graders and superstars at the peak of their powers playing consistently and the B graders doing everything right every week.
It also highlights the quality of our recruiting and the importance of getting guys 100% committed to the cause.
Remember 2 years before we had two recycled players, Athorn and Powell who just did screw all.
Matthew Hogg recycled
Milham Hanna good but not good enough to displace anyone at WC.
Dean Rice delisted recycled after 2 knee reco's
Earl Spalding recycled and had some ordinary seasons
Matt Clape delisted recycled
Brad Pearce delisted recycled
Camporeale outside downhill skier
Adrian Whitehead might have got a gig with WCE
Glenn Manton delisted recycled
Camporeale was a gun.
Footy has changed now. St.Kilda were the last side that had a few a graders and lots of b and c graders and even the odd d grader who came close to a flag. The rest have had solid teams that have had one or two standout players and blokes that could play a role in any team In the competition Making up the rest.
Mil Hanna? LMAO he was a gun.
Mil Hanna? LMAO he was a gun.
There's 9 names there.
I nominated Hanna as a good player, but probably would not have got a run in that WCE line -up.
Which still leaves 8 that would not have, I'll even give you Whitehead as a maybe, still leaves 7.
The point was making, but you can't grasp MBB, is that saying player X, Y or Z wouldn't get a game with the Hawks, doesn't mean you cant compete.
As with the spuds that the Saints had and still made two GF's
......and Thy, Campo was not a MM type player, would not have got a run in the 94 eagles.
D
Sorry CIMM but Campo was not a downhill skier, star player mate, perhaps not in 1995 though which was his first year? the rest I agree with to a certain extent. Clape got ditched from the Eagles anyway. Manton was below average.
Why can't Jones be more like a Brad Pearce type player, lead away from the main forward, Bolt or Hendo? Seems logical? :o
Sorry CIMM but Campo was not a downhill skier, star player mate, perhaps not in 1995 though which was his first year? the rest I agree with to a certain extent. Clape got ditched from the Eagles anyway. Manton was below average.
Campo developed into a weapon, at his peak was one was of the top five mids in the comp. Pin point delivery and never took a back ward step. Abit harsh on Manton I reckon carrots, went on to hold his own at FB when SOS retired. Dunno about below average IMO.
One my fave aspects of Campo's game was his hunger to hunt and chase down the ball carrier. I remember one game against Richmond in 2000 round 22 where they were playing finals and he did it to them twice, both times then swooping on the loose ball and kicking the goal. At his best he was awesome.
@BP
Pearce was a star footballer mate. Five goals in a prelim and then a GF plus a lethal left foot. He too was unstoppable at his best. Injury ruined him.
That 1995 team was chock full of talent. Carlton was a strong team in 1995, and had many people putting in sterling performances for at least that season, if not the 2 prior. If not for a shock loss in 1994, and the heartbreak against the baby bombers in 1993, that would (and possibly should) have been a 3 peat.
I reckon that side is being under rated a bit, but thats my opinion.