Carlton Supporters Club

Enjoy!

Enjoy!

Nope :(

Destination club

While we have some real crap at the bottom end there's enough decent players at the top end, a few albeit underdone, to be better than one win and 65 & 64pts defeats to the two bottom sides.

Whatever message Bolts is sending it's either the wrong message or it is simply falling on deaf ears. Enough is enough. Bolts isn't the man.

Glass half full - is this evidence of our boys being taught the “right “ way to play.  While the saints are 5 years into richo’s regeimn and are still only good for flogging the bottom side by front running when the opp has no ruckman??  They are really no good and not going anywhere soon.  Maybe at least we have a better future??? Maybe I’m just living in hope??

Wasn't surprised, losing Kruezer early really hurt us, however, it was the running players that ran us into the ground. Poor errors from senior players desperate to have an impact, when it's going against you, it really goes against you.

Pickett looked short of a gallop, McKay ran out of puff, the younger guys dropped off, and, SPS looked like he couldn't run out the game - certainly trailed his opponent several times.

On the positive side, Dow, O'Brien kept trying, and, there were passages of play (in the third/fourth) where the young guys teamed together for some enterprising play, however, simply not enough. Another two seasons into Dow and O'Brien will see them take the next step in my opinion - possibly next year for Dow. We need two of Charlie Curnow, and, another (quicker) version of Cripps.

I disagree with some here, I think Carlton need to trade pick 1 for several top picks and get more talent. We are short still two players I think. Cripps, Charlie, Dow need another two additions in my opinion.

Wasn't surprised, losing Kruezer early really hurt us, however, it was the running players that ran us into the ground. Poor errors from senior players desperate to have an impact, when it's going against you, it really goes against you.

Pickett looked short of a gallop, McKay ran out of puff, the younger guys dropped off, and, SPS looked like he couldn't run out the game - certainly trailed his opponent several times.

On the positive side, Dow, O'Brien kept trying, and, there passages of play (in the third/fourth) where the young guys teamed together for some enterprising play, however, simply not enough. Another two seasons into Dow and O'Brien will see them take the next step in my opinion - possibly next year for Dow. We need two of Charlie Curnow, and, another (quicker) version of Cripps.

I disagree with some here, I think Carlton need to trade pick 1 for several top picks and get more talent. We are short still two players I think. Cripps, Charlie, Dow need another two additions in my opinion.

I think so too.

While we have some real crap at the bottom end there's enough decent players at the top end, a few albeit underdone, to be better than one win and 65 & 64pts defeats to the two bottom sides.

Whatever message Bolts is sending it's either the wrong message or it is simply falling on deaf ears. Enough is enough. Bolts isn't the man.

So we sack him and fall back into the young coach old coach trap? Repeating the sins of the past yet again?? As tough as it is stick with him and stay on the plan, but move on the supporting cast including the complete sports science crew there are too many injuries in game and to critical players, Two weeks in a row lost a ruckman, except this week it was the only one playing, completely destroyed the structure and something we were just not able to recover from. All the talk about landing "a big fish" will be moot when Cripps doesn't sign and requests a trade home......... :( :( :(

Gave up after half time, we were lucky Stkilda kicked so many points...disgraceful being belted by the two other bottom teams, why would any decent player want to join a rabble that are uncompetitive and lack fight...

It's official, we are broken as a club and lost.

If that wasn't Bolton and the coaching panel's last hurrah the board needs to go. How much more evidence do we need? And if the last two weeks don't change the CEO's mind that we need a priority pick then he should go too.

This post season we are no longer building for tilt at a flag, we are building just to get a competitive team together that will stop our beloved club from folding.

Just a disgraceful rabble...whose next, oh, Hawks at Marvel stadium, can’t wait....

Changed my mind about the priority pick....we are rock bottom and need it...

So we sack him and fall back into the young coach old coach trap? Repeating the sins of the past yet again?? As tough as it is stick with him and stay on the plan, but move on the supporting cast including the complete sports science crew there are too many injuries in game and to critical players, Two weeks in a row lost a ruckman, except this week it was the only one playing, completely destroyed the structure and something we were just not able to recover from. All the talk about landing "a big fish" will be moot when Cripps doesn't sign and requests a trade home......... :( :( :(

In game injuries are the sports science crews fault ? Umm ok...

Well it is if they are okaying players to get out there who are not fit. Surely you have doubts about the conditioning crew with the amount of injuries this year?? ::) Back at ya

Gave up after half time, we were lucky Stkilda kicked so many points...disgraceful being belted by the two other bottom teams, why would any decent player want to join a rabble that are uncompetitive and lack fight...

They wouldn't, that is why we go to the draft again.

Defined by Pressure ???? Nice one Bolts, I’m onboard ????

What a horror movie our club has become. Seeing Barker sitting next to BB giving him advice scared the shizen out of me!!

Sheesh, SOS, any more non-hackers from other clubs you've got your eyes on!  ::) :-[

Fortunately Cripps, Fisher, Curnow C, Dow, H & O'Brien gave us a glimpse of a better future.

Garlett, Polson, Shaw, Marchbank, SOJ, SPS & the Captain... Pfft.

Well it is if they are okaying players to get out there who are not fit. Surely you have doubts about the conditioning crew with the amount of injuries this year?? ::) Back at ya

Again, two ruckmen is your gripe, one with a hammy and one with shortness of breath... seriously ?

So we sack him and fall back into the young coach old coach trap? Repeating the sins of the past yet again?? As tough as it is stick with him and stay on the plan, but move on the supporting cast including the complete sports science crew there are too many injuries in game and to critical players, Two weeks in a row lost a ruckman, except this week it was the only one playing, completely destroyed the structure and something we were just not able to recover from. All the talk about landing "a big fish" will be moot when Cripps doesn't sign and requests a trade home......... :( :( :(

You embrace failure? One win and embarrassment.

You think there's no good coaching options out there. We have to actually get it right for once.

We seem to have addressed the issue of putting in a shocker every third week or so... managed back to back shockers. And there was the very real danger of our % being better than the GCs... we've successfully addressed that worry and may even achieve the incredible... a % in the 50s! (60.9% at present).

Well SOS will be happy.

First thing we need to do, both for their own respective sakes, and for the sake of footy, is trade Cripps and Curnow to other clubs. They deserve better than the clusterf@ck rabble we have become. We are robbing them of the career they deserve and it's just not fair.

What a horror movie our club has become. Seeing Barker sitting next to BB giving him advice scared the shizen out of me!!

Sheesh, SOS, any more non-hackers from other clubs you've got your eyes on!  ::) :-[

Fortunately Cripps, Fisher, Curnow C, Dow, H & O'Brien gave us a glimpse of a better future.

Garlett, Polson, Shaw, Marchbank, SOJ, SPS & the Captain... Pfft.

x 2
I've been struggling to find the words...I'll just use yours Baggers.

Clearly we've been "sold a pup"
Sadly the snake oil salesmen that sold it seem to be escaping scrutiny.
This rebuild strategy may eventually bear fruit but it will take many years longer than we were expected to believe.
A club can turn it's fortunes around without cutting to the bone...we did it ourselves at the start of the decade only to balk when it became a little difficult.
I actually feel sorry for Bolton, who's looking likely to join the list of coaches whose reputations have been forever tarnished by the phenomenon that is the Carlton Coaching Black Hole.

x 2
I've been struggling to find the words...I'll just use yours Baggers.

Clearly we've been "sold a pup"
Sadly the snake oil salesmen that sold it seem to be escaping scrutiny.
This rebuild strategy may eventually bear fruit but it will take many years longer than we were expected to believe.
A club can turn it's fortunes around without cutting to the bone...we did it ourselves at the start of the decade only to balk when it became a little difficult.
I actually feel sorry for Bolton, who's looking likely to join the list of coaches whose reputations have been forever tarnished by the phenomenon that is the Carlton Coaching Black Hole.

If we reference Stkilda as a yardstick most would say they are a failed rebuild, so where does that leave us....... :-\ :(

Having MK go down at the start of the game really impacted us. I expected them to run away with it when he went off although we held them off for a little while. Interesting he had shortness of breath and elevated heart rate..... what is going on with medical management of the boys??

Some class from Crippa, Charlie, Fisher, Dow, LOB, and big H.
Nothing in the contested possies, which i thought reflected improved effort. Tackles -20 thereabouts. Not good enough.
The not good enough players were there for all to see.
I think Lamb might get a forced holiday for a nasty incident with Gresham.

I've got to say it. That was the worst umpiring I've seen. The inconsistencies were stark. Just one example q4 Kennedy marks top of the goal square. His opponent concedes and prepares to get on the mark. Umpires calls play f%#* on.... No chance when that's happening.  Not that we were a genuine chance but let's have consistency.

Gonna be a huge challenge for our recruiting staff to clear out the bottom rung and add some quality foot soldiers. The youngsters look the goods but then there's a massive gap. I wish we could play the same 22 occasionally  :o. Too much to ask for I guess :-\

If we reference Stkilda as a yardstick most would say they are a failed rebuild, so where does that leave us....... :-\ :(

Back where we started in 2015. And 2007. And 2002.

You embrace failure? One win and embarrassment.

You think there's no good coaching options out there. We have to actually get it right for once.

Firstly Laj, unless you are are mind reader you don't know what I think, and if you are you are no good.

Richmond, Geelong, and Collingwood all faced down the doubters and two of them by sticking with the coach and plan won flags, Collingwood this year in my obviously flawed opinion are probably the only team that can challenge Richmond,

What is our history this century? Bring in (or back in the case of Parko) an "old coach", use him up then sack him for an untried one, three times for zero stability and sustainability

So according to your plan lets do it one more time for the likes of, who? Lyon? Roos?

Or adopt those other successful clubs, stick fat (to coin a Sticks phrase) and see what happens. We dont do that and all we are doing is feeding the chooks and endorsing the sad fact that we are a reactionary club that is lead by other's opinions..

Again, two ruckmen is your gripe, one with a hammy and one with shortness of breath... seriously ?

Northern, my "gripe" as you put it was more about that the players we lost in the first quarter were both crucial to the entire structure for both games, Martin is good enough again to be All Australian this year, so we played two ruckmen to curtail his influence, the "fit"one goes down early, robbing us of the option of an extra tall forward so Kreuser has to ruck all day. This week he goes down, with no back up as we brought in an untried young player who is a forward, not a back up ruckman, Some will say its madness at the MC but my take is that we are running out of players. Kreuser goes down early (by the way only back one game since being injured!!! My point!!!), game over.

So lets sack the coach as usual.

There's one positive coming up. I get to knock off to Europe mid next month and miss the end of the season. Be pleased to see the back of footy this year.

Result didn’t surprise me. Didn’t understand those who gave us a chance. We are so far below the rest of the comp it’s not funny.   List is poor but can’t win when you have 5 or so players every single week who we just can’t get a contribution from.

Polson is not even close to AFL standard - not even sure he is VFL standard yet he continues to get a game. Gets the ball under 5 times a match and then runs like headless chook with absolutely no clue.

And then we decide he should have his contract extended!! WTF.

I mean seriously is this a forking joke of what!! Had a 3 touches tonight and went at 33%. In his last 4 games he averaged 5 possessions at 30% efficiency.

Is the club deliberately taking the p1ss with this guy.

Add in garlett as another who has no clue and we pretty much start the game 2 players down.

We are bad enough without these 2 players.

I just don’t get it anymore.

If Polson plays next week.......I don’t even wanna think about it......????????????

Firstly Laj, unless you are are mind reader you don't know what I think, and if you are you are no good.

Richmond, Geelong, and Collingwood all faced down the doubters and two of them by sticking with the coach and plan won flags, Collingwood this year in my obviously flawed opinion are probably the only team that can challenge Richmond,

What is our history this century? Bring in (or back in the case of Parko) an "old coach", use him up then sack him for an untried one, three times for zero stability and sustainability

So according to your plan lets do it one more time for the likes of, who? Lyon? Roos?

Or adopt those other successful clubs, stick fat (to coin a Sticks phrase) and see what happens. We do that and all we are doing is feeding the chooks and endorsing the sad fact that we are a reactionary club that is lead by other's opinions..
Northern, my "gripe" as you put it was more about that the players we lost in the first quarter were both crucial to the entire structure for both games, Martin is good enough again to be All Australian this year, so we played two ruckmen to curtail his influence, the "fit"one goes down early, robbing us of the option of an extra tall forward so Kreuser has to ruck all day. This week he goes down, with no back up as we brought in an untried young player who is a forward, not a back up ruckman, Some will say its nadness at the MC but my take is that we are running out of players. Kreuser goes down early (by the way only back one game since being injured!!! My point!!!), game over.

So lets sack the coach as usual.

Those sides weren't down the bottom with one win and going backwards in a hurry. If they were they wouldnt be coaching so lets not talk crap. They were competitive sides. Richmond, Geelong back then were multiple finalists before their bad year.  Bit of a difference.

We have no structure, poorly drilled, game plan terrible, players confused as to their roles. We look like they have no idea out there. Like I said you might embrace failure and happy to stay as we are, I'm not. Bulldog sacked their coach then won a flag. They were worse than us in 2014. If they listened to you they'd have won nothing.

Enough said, cant have any form of discourse with a person who appears to know one's most inner thoughts, what's the point(?), I hope you enjoy your holiday pal

I'm not sure sacking the coach is going to achieve much.
We have a terrible list (apart from a handful of class youngsters and a few oldies).
Many of thr players  are now totally bereft of confidence as the losses continue and we have injuries and poor form to players who should be forming part of the nucleus of the team (eg Weitering, Marchbank).
I say we stay the course with Bolton until next year and focus on getting the support staff right (ala Richmond) and of course improve the list.

Keep Bolts, sack all of his dud assistants. Bring in ex coaches to replace them, Eade, Voss, Roos..hell!! Even bring in Hird. Bolts needs better support around him to improve as a match day coach, he is currently surrounded by crap.

Good news is we didn’t have a goalless quarter this week ????

Keep Bolts, sack all of his dud assistants. Bring in ex coaches to replace them, Eade, Voss, Roos..hell!! Even bring in Hird. Bolts needs better support to make him a better match day coach, he is currently surrounded by crap.

Now finally here is someone who can read my mind!!!! Never said that Bolton is our messiah, but we have been so committed to this reconstruction we simply must see it out until the end of next season, we brought in cheap foot soldiers (Mullet, Shaw, Kerridge, O'Shae etc) who have proven to be allbut useless, but what wasn't and couldn't have been anticipated was the injury list from hell, these blokes were not meant to play more than 5 or 6 games a year, but the spuds have been in every game. Someone broke a mirror, or killed a chinaman, and today was Friday the 13th!!!

I'm not sure sacking the coach is going to achieve much.
We have a terrible list (apart from a handful of class youngsters and a few oldies).
Many of thr players  are now totally bereft of confidence as the losses continue and we have injuries and poor form to players who should be forming part of the nucleus of the team (eg Weitering, Marchbank).
I say we stay the course with Bolton until next year and focus on getting the support staff right (ala Richmond) and of course improve the list.

We have a list full of talent that is under performing. It's time to try a different coaching group to develop them and give them a different game plan to work with.

x 2
I've been struggling to find the words...I'll just use yours Baggers.

Clearly we've been "sold a pup"
Sadly the snake oil salesmen that sold it seem to be escaping scrutiny.
This rebuild strategy may eventually bear fruit but it will take many years longer than we were expected to believe.
A club can turn it's fortunes around without cutting to the bone...we did it ourselves at the start of the decade only to balk when it became a little difficult.
I actually feel sorry for Bolton, who's looking likely to join the list of coaches whose reputations have been forever tarnished by the phenomenon that is the Carlton Coaching Black Hole.

Finally someone agrees with me.  After 3 years, and 3 bannings etc.  Sheez.

I'm not sure sacking the coach is going to achieve much.
We have a terrible list (apart from a handful of class youngsters and a few oldies).
Many of thr players  are now totally bereft of confidence as the losses continue and we have injuries and poor form to players who should be forming part of the nucleus of the team (eg Weitering, Marchbank).
I say we stay the course with Bolton until next year and focus on getting the support staff right (ala Richmond) and of course improve the list.

Watch Bolton's press conference.  It was full of lies, excuses, flowery language, gen y feather preening.  And you want to keep him?  Seriously. 

So who do you propose as Bolton's replacement?

So who do you propose as Bolton's replacement?

We need to look around for the best available at the seasons end- install Barker/Teague now. I would sound out Bevo

Barker!?!  Really?   Based on his track record he'd be the first bloke I'd show the door too.

So who do you propose as Bolton's replacement?

May as well complete the gws transition and bring in Leon Cameron. At least he knows half the players and has experience with a developing side.

Finally someone agrees with me.  After 3 years, and 3 bannings etc.  Sheez.

You were never banned for having an opinion. ;)
It was how you expressed it that was a bit over the top.

...and I've been a rebuild sceptic/denier since they first suggested it.... if you look back.
The objective may have been the right way to go if carried out correctly.
Injuries have had an impact.
It may still turn out for the best, but we're in a bit of a hole at the moment.
It's just the reasons for it at the time, and the timing, were a bit dubious.

Nothing wrong with a rebuild if it's done well. Ours unfortunately is built on the shifting sands of some very very ordinary unreliable foot soldiers who are bringing the solid quality section of our list crashing down. We just have far far to many untalented or very modestly talented players. Go to work SOS!

Nothing wrong with a rebuild if it's done well. Ours unfortunately is built on the shifting sands of some very very ordinary unreliable foot soldiers who are bringing the solid quality section of our list crashing down. We just have far far to many untalented or very modestly talented players. Go to work SOS!

our rebuild has been done by the same people who continue making crap decisions over and over again.  Considering the panel that was assembled to sign Bolton,  and the fact that sos has drafted a bunch of kids with talent it's everyone else who's holding us back, not the coach.

Our medicos need to be in the gun.  I've never seen so many one to three week injuries take twice as long to heal and render a team uncompetitive for the season.

We would be the most skilled and consistent side in the comp at giving the ball back to the opposition in their 50. Twice we were pinged for stepping over the line when kicking out.

Once Daisy had to come from behind to punch as someone kicked backwards badly.

At least once they marked a kick that was going across the ground from us in their 50.

There was at least once where we stuffed up under minimal pressure, they picked it up we tackle,  they throw the ball to team mste then goal.

Any danger of a team rule that unless a defender is 200 metres in the vlear we don't kick backwards or sideways in our defensive 50.  These easy goals we give away every week are demoralising.

I haven't read Kruds thread about rule changes,  but any chance of: If a player has the footy and they have a chance to get rid of it and they don't kick or handball it correctly then a free is paid.   I would prefer lots of frees  and the rules applied correctly, to random allocation of them.

It was curious to see Centre bounce set up of basically everyone in a straight line down the ground  -  all players essentially down the spine - would that have been us or them instigating this.

Many of us are very disappointed with the season. Finger pointing at some area is not valid, it's across the board in some cases, but the key is the amount of injuries, with lack continuity especially with such an inexperienced list, and loss of key personal Gibbs, Murphy, Doc, etc confidence wanes, it's a tough task. That's not to say some decisions made by the MC at time make sense , but you can only play who you have left. It's re group time as best we can, season of ours is long over, not from a wins point of view, but player experimentation as well, it's now just survival till seasons end

We need to look around for the best available at the seasons end- install Barker/Teague now. I would sound out Bevo

Great idea, the Doggies blokes love him dont they ::)

Firstly Laj, unless you are are mind reader you don't know what I think, and if you are you are no good.

Richmond, Geelong, and Collingwood all faced down the doubters and two of them by sticking with the coach and plan won flags, Collingwood this year in my obviously flawed opinion are probably the only team that can challenge Richmond,

What is our history this century? Bring in (or back in the case of Parko) an "old coach", use him up then sack him for an untried one, three times for zero stability and sustainability

So according to your plan lets do it one more time for the likes of, who? Lyon? Roos?

Or adopt those other successful clubs, stick fat (to coin a Sticks phrase) and see what happens. We dont do that and all we are doing is feeding the chooks and endorsing the sad fact that we are a reactionary club that is lead by other's opinions..
Northern, my "gripe" as you put it was more about that the players we lost in the first quarter were both crucial to the entire structure for both games, Martin is good enough again to be All Australian this year, so we played two ruckmen to curtail his influence, the "fit"one goes down early, robbing us of the option of an extra tall forward so Kreuser has to ruck all day. This week he goes down, with no back up as we brought in an untried young player who is a forward, not a back up ruckman, Some will say its madness at the MC but my take is that we are running out of players. Kreuser goes down early (by the way only back one game since being injured!!! My point!!!), game over.

So lets sack the coach as usual.

Sorry mate, but even when they were struggling they were still winning games. Comparisons with our club/BB and other clubs/coaches is erroneous. Like comparing fish with turnips. We've turned the clock of failure back to pre 2000s and the 'Roys etc. And this is not about sacking the coach, much, much bigger than that... this is about the President, SOS, head of footy and the coach. In case you haven't noticed, we've been reduced to beeing the worst club in the AFL and are now a laughing stock and the subject of ridicule.

And, for the record, there are clubs in the 8 with long injury lists, injuries to experienced blokes as well.

Our problems go far deeper than losing a ruckman early in a game and not having Doc for the season. Far deeper.

Good news is we didn’t have a goalless quarter this week ????

You've been drinking Boltons cool aid.  ;)

I am getting a little tired of the condescending presumptive attitude that dominates some of the posters here, assuming that I am enjoying this distressing mess, advocating failure, not "understanding" our predicament and how we just keep going back to the well when it gets tough.

Mate we have been the media's punching bag for a decade, because of the inbreed arrogance that people like yourself demonstrate on a daily basis, that's why all the other clubs despise Carlton, we were so successful for so long, and it was based upon a fraud. And now when finally the administration wakes up to the real world, and realise that there are no more quick fixes, and that the previous administrators (I actually blame Collins and his self serving) had no idea, that we are a complete basket case who have not learnt a thing from our sins of the past, and your response is to sack the coach again.

And if another person reminds me of how he teams I mentioned are not comparable "I'll spew", its not about games won, or ladder positions, its about decisions. None of the teams, including the Dogs, were undergoing a reconstruction, they were resets. Unfortunately our team has chosen to go down a much deeper and harder option all I want is it to be given a chance to play out, what have we got to loose it's too late to top up....

We would be the most skilled and consistent side in the comp at giving the ball back to the opposition in their 50. Twice we were pinged for stepping over the line when kicking out.

Once Daisy had to come from behind to punch as someone kicked backwards badly.

At least once they marked a kick that was going across the ground from us in their 50.

There was at least once where we stuffed up under minimal pressure, they picked it up we tackle,  they throw the ball to team mste then goal.

Any danger of a team rule that unless a defender is 200 metres in the vlear we don't kick backwards or sideways in our defensive 50.  These easy goals we give away every week are demoralising.

I haven't read Kruds thread about rule changes,  but any chance of: If a player has the footy and they have a chance to get rid of it and they don't kick or handball it correctly then a free is paid.   I would prefer lots of frees  and the rules applied correctly, to random allocation of them.

It was curious to see Centre bounce set up of basically everyone in a straight line down the ground  -  all players essentially down the spine - would that have been us or them instigating this.

Completely agree on our backline ball movement. I think that this, along with zone defence, is all part of the disastrous game plan we have adopted that is leading us nowhere. Our players don't/can't take the game on because every time we get the ball at half back instead of running hard forward our half backs drop back to switch play. Its hard to initiate an attack when nearly one quarter of you players drop back and leave the opposition to casually set up their defensive lines. The few times we've looked good this year is when players run together and try to move through the middle.

But what usually happens instead is we either turn it over while slowly switching play or give up and just kick long down the line to a contest - one where the opposition usually has the numbers because most of our guys stayed back behind play. (yet somehow seem out numbered when the opposition rebound quickly?)

I am getting a little tired of the condescending presumptive attitude that dominates some of the posters here, assuming that I am enjoying this distressing mess, advocating failure, not "understanding" our predicament and how we just keep going back to the well when it gets tough.

Mate we have been the media's punching bag for a decade, because of the inbreed arrogance that people like yourself demonstrate on a daily basis, that's why all the other clubs despise Carlton, we were so successful for so long, and it was based upon a fraud. And now when finally the administration wakes up to the real world, and realise that there are no more quick fixes, and that the previous administrators (I actually blame Collins and his self serving) had no idea, that we are a complete basket case who have not learnt a thing from our sins of the past, and your response is to sack the coach again.

And if another person reminds me of how he teams I mentioned are not comparable "I'll spew", its not about games won, or ladder positions, its about decisions. None of the teams, including the Dogs, were undergoing a reconstruction, they were resets. Unfortunately our team has chosen to go down a much deeper and harder option all I want is it to be given a chance to play out, what have we got to loose it's too late to top up....

Those sides, Richmond, Geelong, are not comparable. Don't need to be Einstein to work that out. Their situation was very different as finalists for a few years. We're on one win. So start spewing.

One side.that is more comparable is the Bulldogs. Below us in 2014, change coach, premiers 2 years later. While you give us stupid comparison I'll find a more comparable one.

Not remotely interested in anything you have to say, be sure not to miss your plane buddy

I really wish I could be positive, but I can't. Not based on what I saw last night.
At the moment we are not just a club in crisis, but a club in search of an identity.

Not remotely interested in anything you have to say, be sure not to miss your plane buddy

That's ok, i don't listen to people that have no idea either as it makes you less intelligent. Imagine comparing Richmond and Geelong to our one win situation then get the sooks when the obviously error is pointed out. I'll point out the GHogs and Port under Primus to Hinckley. Laughable poster. Enjoy your losses.

I guess these type of results causes people to react in different ways, but the arrogance of a few posters on these forums makes my eyes bleed and makes me remember why I left for a period of time. The way we treat others is a measure of person you really are.

Look, people: it is like this. We are experiencing the worst period in our cub's history. We can't do anything about it at the moment. But the moment we turn on each other, whether we agree or not, is the moment we BECOME the sort of crap we are trying not to be.

"Victory has many fathers, but defeat is an orphan." Think on this.
"Disunity is death!" Try this one, too.

If we cannot hold it together, then maybe we deserve what is happening to us.

Not remotely interested in anything you have to say, be sure not to miss your plane buddy

For what it's worth I agree with you.
Sacking the coach might give us a temporary sugar hit but ultimately it would lead to our ruin.
Most supporters underestimated the dire state of our list, brought about by decades of negligence and poor management, there's simply no easy options.
The harsh reality is that it might be 6 or 8 years until it reaches fruition, until Curnow, Weitering, Dow, O'Brien, SPS, McKay and the likes are old enough and experienced enough to form a quality core which we've lacked since the 1990's.
The hard work is all ahead of us, and one of the hardest things we have to do is to convince the young players that their day will come if they stick.
Sack the coach now and it all unravels.

It is exactly the same reason I left this place before, then it was a key board bully maned Pass It To Carrots, this particular bully is fixated upon some perceived uninformed notion that I actually am enjoying this current debacle.  Mods I find his behaviour insulting and if you are concerned about loosing posters and members then look at the arrogance of this particular buffoon. He will now typically respond and throw some more insults.

It is exactly the same reason I left this place before, then it was a key board bully maned Pass It To Carrots, this particular bully is fixated upon some perceived uninformed notion that I actually am enjoying this current debacle.  Mods I find his behaviour insulting and if you are concerned about loosing posters and members then look at the arrogance of this particular buffoon. He will now typically respond and throw some more insults.

He didn't literally mean that you were "happy" to accept failure.

He didn't literally mean that you were "happy" to accept failure.

Like reading the rules can lead to alternative interpretations, it's fair to assume posters will interpret meanings in posts differently and most interpretations are subjective not objective.

I was at pub in the city drinking until the wee hrs with a few work mates, they had the game on Fox, I had two see it twice as they showed a replay afterwards (didnt really watch as I was concentrating on my pints). So spare a thought for me kiddies, to use one of BB's terms, I had to endure.
I have no detailed comments on the game other than to say what I did see was truly appalling.

He accused me of "embracing failure", not once have I even suggested it and if this bozo knew anything about me he wouldn't be so insulting in all his other posts, so instead of defending him let him take some responsibility. That's the problem with this site it's always the same old crew, ignoring the rest of us whilst you have you little conversations, this site is really nothing more than an ongoing conversation between about ten of you. You only ever respond to the majority of posters when you condescendingly comment on our "stupid" posts, or your usual response, just ignore what we have to say. And some of you wonder why this site has lost so many members.....
I've been posting here, and it's former carnation for over ten years, followed the team since I was in grade two, 1970, sat in the stand and watched five premierships, watched them loose two, my moniker says I am still bleeding Blue! So when some anonymous keyboard warrior  starts insulting my opinion, and trust me I truly consider my posts, it leaves such a foul taste in my mouth. I don't want to let bullies win, so whilst part of me wants to feck off, the significantly bigger bit wont let the Laj's of this world win anymore. I founded a charity that fights for men's mental health, I've raised hundred's of thousands of dollars for the men of Ballarat so don't accuse me of accepting failure, I fecking eat it for brekky. Happy for any PM's from anyone in regards to my charity and foundation.

So AFL is a level playing field.

Ling accuses Lamb of eye gouging, then claims he's not trying accuse Lamb of anything, then he repeats the footage and restates the accusation twice during a quarter time break and post match. If I were Lamb I'd job Ling if he walked past me, it's a disgrace and another in a long trend of such events from Ling and other Geelong types!

McAvaney brings up a list of our injuries and tells the world it's an inspiring list, while the Aints similarly long list is full of excitement. btw., the list CheatsTV showed for Carlton excluded a number of our starting 22! Then he makes jokes at Carlton expense later in the broadcast and feigns being shocked by what he stated!

BT accuses Simmo of being too old, and of going blind in his old age because of a disposal error.

At the post match presser McFarlane basically accuses Bolton of tanking through player "management", then today his Hun rag reports the heavy hitting article that our club jumper looks crap! They are also call for a 3 year ban of Carlton from Friday and other prime time night fixtures including Thursday nights like Rnd 1! Again if a Carlton person walks past McFarlane they should punch him in the face!

When are people around Carlton going to get serious about the idea that defending our brand and culture means doing more than just trying to play football! Just wearing this stuff breaks the players down mentally as much as any on field or training pressure will!

Where the feck is Liddle, is the job too hot for him?

And what about The Judge, is he doing a deaf, dumb and blind monkey imitation and denying responsibility?

If they won't stand up in the media blowtorch and defend our club, who does! The attitude you see on field is a direct reflection of the more general attitude around the club, no doubt about that!

Part of the job of the board, executive and staff is to take the pressure off the players, not heap it on them! Clubs routinely do this even when they have a list for experienced veterans, we aren't doing it with a list full of kids! It's a huge tell about the problems that exist at Carlton!

I was at pub in the city drinking until the wee hrs with a few work mates, they had the game on Fox, I had two see it twice as they showed a replay afterwards (didnt really watch as I was concentrating on my pints). So spare a thought for me kiddies, to use one of BB's terms, I had to endure.
I have no detailed comments on the game other than to say what I did see was truly appalling.

 No worries GTC. Analysing that game in detail, for a CFC suuporter, would be akin to self-flagellation! Hope you had imbibed sufficient liquid anesthetic to fully kill the pain of watching it twice!

Took a triple dose of medication and missed the game.  Can somebody please give me a balanced precis of Harry's game,  from the raw stats he looked like he got involved at times.   The stats for the smaller forwards- SOJ,  Pickett,  Garlett, Polson etc are pathetic:  if you can't get a kick you can still chase and tackle.

then today his Hun rag reports the heavy hitting article that our club jumper looks crap!

They're calling it the worst jumper of all time lol.

It might be our worst jumper but it still better than most of the AFL's real jumpers.

They're calling it the worst jumper of all time lol.

It might be our worst jumper but it still better than most of the AFL's real jumpers.

Firstly, it's subjective reporting, quoting fans who are not even Carlton supporters.

But the burn for me it that it is the silence from our club that that allows this sort of reporting to happen, maybe the club board, Admin and staff agree!

What are we paying Liddle for, just another huge recruiting mistake, Bartlett has blokes like Balme and Swann laughing at us on his radio show!

They're calling it the worst jumper of all time lol.

It might be our worst jumper but it still better than most of the AFL's real jumpers.

It's an away jumper. Who cares? They all look crap.

Took a triple dose of medication and missed the game.  Can somebody please give me a balanced precis of Harry's game,  from the raw stats he looked like he got involved at times.   The stats for the smaller forwards- SOJ,  Pickett,  Garlett, Polson etc are pathetic:  if you can't get a kick you can still chase and tackle.

Harry was pretty good. Looked absolutely cooked by the third quarter as he had spent a lot of time in the ruck. His sprint away from Carlisle when he hit the post was excellent. So much potential. Amazing that they sat him in the stands last week.

Took a triple dose of medication and missed the game.  Can somebody please give me a balanced precis of Harry's game,  from the raw stats he looked like he got involved at times.   The stats for the smaller forwards- SOJ,  Pickett,  Garlett, Polson etc are pathetic:  if you can't get a kick you can still chase and tackle.

Raw, has good attacking potential, good speed, but seems uninterested in defending -  looks like a front runner at this stage. Could be youth, personality, etc. Hard to say at this point. He simply must play all remaining games. The time to find out whether he's a time waster is now.

As an aside, our F50 pressure is atrocious.

Harry was pretty good. Looked absolutely cooked by the third quarter as he had spent a lot of time in the ruck. His sprint away from Carlisle when he hit the post was excellent. So much potential. Amazing that they sat him in the stands last week.

So you watch him run out of legs and wonder why he isn't playing? That is the reason he isn't playing, and it's allegedly related to a work ethic issue.

There are other reasons, he has missed pre-seasons and games due to injury, also I believe the club is managing his fatigue levels due to a dose of glandular fever last season exactly like they did Charlie. But in comparison to Charlie, who we realise is elite, McKay allegedly hasn't shown the same work ethic to catch up.

As for that pump up about his run, it's KPP bullcrap, every small and medium forward on our list can probably outrun Carlilse for a ground ball. A 200cm x 100kg player is not out there to be a rover, it's a losing tactic!

As an aside, our F50 pressure is atrocious.

There it is, an uncomfortable truth, fans prefer to bash Jones, Weitering, Plowman or Marchbank than call out the guys who kick an occasional soft goal! and otherwise do feck all!

I though the biggest positive last night was SPS, when the sh1t hit the fan he actually looked like he wanted to do something about it! But it's hard to have any effect when you are on your own! Another good positive was Cripps marking, but we have to keep in mind the Aints are a small side.

Took a triple dose of medication and missed the game.  Can somebody please give me a balanced precis of Harry's game,  from the raw stats he looked like he got involved at times.   The stats for the smaller forwards- SOJ,  Pickett,  Garlett, Polson etc are pathetic:  if you can't get a kick you can still chase and tackle.

Harry would be a good finisher in a good team, got all the skills but playing with the bananas like we have is going to limit and slow his development.
Got whacked in a pack marking attempt and got straight back up which shows he can handle the physical stuff....Bolton has erred not playing him yet handed games to a dud like Polson......just inept coaching and selection....

It's an away jumper. Who cares? They all look crap.

I'd like to see the sales figures for them.  I imagine they'd be miserable.  The AFL have no idea how the traditional jumpers of all clubs unite and incite supporters.  None.

Thanks people,  sounds like another kid with potential who needs time and some preseason continuity.   I like his pace and mobility and he seems to have a bit of sh1t in him, which we so desperately need.

Thanks people,  sounds like another kid with potential who needs time and some preseason continuity.   I like his pace and mobility and he seems to have a bit of sh1t in him, which we so desperately need.

Yes, he has an upside with potential, but he is miles away from being AFL standard, not unlike SoJ.

Last night Harry was easily man handled by players much smaller and lighter than him, but he's got Casboult as a mentor so what should we expect!

.........................

I though the biggest positive last night was SPS, when the sh1t hit the fan he actually looked like he wanted to do something about it! But it's hard to have any effect when you are on your own! Another good positive was Cripps marking, but we have to keep in mind the Aints are a small side.

Based on what I can see, our current three amigos are shameless impostors compared to their predecessors. I'm hoping it's just injuries, lack of game time etc. and not some inherent, unfixable issue.

And Cripps is in real danger of becoming our next Judd. At least Bolton has publicly flagged this and has indicated that he needs help. 

So you watch him run out of legs and wonder why he isn't playing? That is the reason he isn't playing, and it's allegedly related to a work ethic issue.

There are other reasons, he has missed pre-seasons and games due to injury, also I believe the club is managing his fatigue levels due to a dose of glandular fever last season exactly like they did Charlie. But in comparison to Charlie, who we realise is elite, McKay allegedly hasn't shown the same work ethic to catch up.

As for that pump up about his run, it's KPP bullcrap, every small and medium forward on our list can probably outrun Carlilse for a ground ball. A 200cm x 100kg player is not out there to be a rover, it's a losing tactic!

There it is, an uncomfortable truth, fans prefer to bash Jones, Weitering, Plowman or Marchbank than call out the guys who kick an occasional soft goal! and otherwise do feck all!

I though the biggest positive last night was SPS, when the sh1t hit the fan he actually looked like he wanted to do something about it! But it's hard to have any effect when you are on your own! Another good positive was Cripps marking, but we have to keep in mind the Aints are a small side.

He was cooked because he had to play ruck but for all that he kept going and ended up with 14 possessions.

The solution to him lacking fitness is not sitting him in the stands.

I didn't bake Marchbank or Plowman. Ever.

SPS has been one of the biggest disappointments for me this year. Glad to see him get 20 post last night. I'd like to see him up with Fisher in terms of development - who I think is going to be a gun.

Based on what I can see, our current three amigos are shameless impostors compared to their predecessors. I'm hoping it's just injuries, lack of game time etc. and not some inherent, unfixable issue.

And Cripps is in real danger of becoming our next Judd. At least Bolton has publicly flagged this and has indicated that he needs help.

SPS was far better than last night, you are being unreasonable.

If you want to point a finger specifically from last night's game have a look at Dow, O'Brien, Pickett, Garlett, Shaw, Polson, Marchbank and Silvagni. They were collectively crap.

I'd like to see the sales figures for them.  I imagine they'd be miserable.  The AFL have no idea how the traditional jumpers of all clubs unite and incite supporters.  None.

Ah the classic jumper debate.

I don't have an aversion to the alternative strips.

I certainly don't have such a distaste that most seem to.

I do know that every single jumper that comes out has those in favour of it, and those against it.

For the record, i think this jumper was greeted with the most amount of acceptance over previous versions.
I also think jumper sales would not be a good indication, as i don't think many people are buying much Carlton merch at present, regardless of what it looks like.

SPS was far better than last night, you are being unreasonable.

If you want to point a finger specifically from last night's game have a look at Dow, O'Brien, Pickett, Garlett, Shaw, Polson, Marchbank and Silvagni. They were collectively crap.

I thought he was average last night.

I thought Dow and O'Brien were ok.

The current clash jumper is terrible. It's trying to be white, but our players live in some Dickensian Northern English industrial town, and so they look permanently grey and grubby. 

Based on what I can see, our current three amigos are shameless impostors compared to their predecessors. I'm hoping it's just injuries, lack of game time etc. and not some inherent, unfixable issue.

And Cripps is in real danger of becoming our next Judd. At least Bolton has publicly flagged this and has indicated that he needs help.

Dow, Fisher, SPS, Cunningham, Polson, Doc, Kennedy, Lang, O'Brien and 2018 #1 pick.

There have got to be another 2 or 3 Cripps level players from this group.

We won't get them from other clubs.

Dow and Fisher look like future 30+ per week midfielders to me.

He was cooked because he had to play ruck but for all that he kept going and ended up with 14 possessions.

The solution to him lacking fitness is not sitting him in the stands.

It's rubbish excuse, Jones, Rowe and Charlie also rucked and then returned to their primary positions, they didn't spend time walking around inside the centre square! FFS, Hickey run off him, where the feck was McKay's famous pace when he was required to defend?

As for sitting in the stand last week, what's the club supposed to do, go hunting for a game in the NEAFL given the VFL had a bye!

I'm happy for him to get a game if he earns it, if he hasn't earned it we are setting a dangerous precedent, and we can just accept crap like last night, a 200cm x 100kg rover!

Have you ever considered that our teams apparent lack of passion, cohesion and commitment might be a result of certain players getting games when they do not deserve it?

I didn't bake Marchbank or Plowman. Ever.

A comment lacking context for what I posted, I didn't accuse you of anything!

SPS has been one of the biggest disappointments for me this year. Glad to see him get 20 post last night. I'd like to see him up with Fisher in terms of development - who I think is going to be a gun.

True, but not every kid grows at the same rate, as long as they are all making an effort that is all we can ask!

There have got to be another 2 or 3 Cripps level players from this group.

There won't be another 2 or 3 Cripps level players in the whole league, it's not realistic!

I thought Dow and O'Brien were ok.

I thought they weren't, this week they were playing against some opposition that had less game experience than them!

Ah the classic jumper debate.

I don't have an aversion to the alternative strips.

I certainly don't have such a distaste that most seem to.

I do know that every single jumper that comes out has those in favour of it, and those against it.

For the record, i think this jumper was greeted with the most amount of acceptance over previous versions.
I also think jumper sales would not be a good indication, as i don't think many people are buying much Carlton merch at present, regardless of what it looks like.

The subjective "Most", as reported but it is not reality, most of the posters the Hun quote are not even Carlton supporters, so they base there argument on opposition fans hating the Carlton jumper!

No doubt about that, why the focus on this jumper?

We know this jumper was preferred by many Carlton fans, just from our very own forums feedback.

Three facts that won't suit the media's position so you won't hear it reported, someone from our club has to find the balls to take some media heat or we are going to go extinct!

It's rubbish excuse, Jones, Rowe and Charlie also rucked and then returned to their primary positions, they didn't spend time walking around inside the centre square! FFS, Hickey run off him, where the feck was McKay's famous pace when he was required to defend?

As for sitting in the stand last week, what's the club supposed to do, go hunting for a game in the NEAFL given the VFL had a bye!

I'm happy for him to get a game if he earns it, if he hasn't earned it we are setting a dangerous precedent, and we can just accept crap like last night, a 200cm x 100kg rover!

Have you ever considered that our teams apparent lack of passion, cohesion and commitment might be a result of certain players getting games when they do not deserve it?
A comment lacking context for what I posted, I didn't accuse you of anything!
True, but not every kid grows at the same rate, as long as they are all making an effort that is all we can ask!

Harry was pretty good last night. He just needs more and more games.

I thought Dow looked really dangerous last night but had a really fumbly game. Kennedy could have finished with 3 goals. Cripps burned him when 40m out straight in front on his own and marked 12m out straight in front waved play on by the umps who had a shocker.

Small positives from a horror show.

I thought Jones had an positive in the ruck, was OK around the ground, and his 2nd efforts get a result for us even though he loses the centre tap. Took a couple of defensive marks while rucking which seemed to get him back on track defensively, letting him get mobile had at least as much benefit for him as it does Levi.

Next week, I'd give Kreuzer a rest, bring Weitering back in as the KPD, and play Jones in the ruck and around the ground far more than we have previously. Hawthorn have lost Big Boy, they are as weak in the ruck as any team in the comp, they will need to ruck Roughead with Ceglar, and Jones could be quite effective as he can keep pace with Roughead!

McKay will get slaughtered by Roughead, because as soon as the teams spread from the stoppage Roughead will be pushing solo inside F50 and McKay will be watching it happen from 20m away!

I thought Jones had an positive in the ruck, was OK around the ground, and his 2nd efforts get a result for us even though he loses the centre tap. Took a couple of defensive marks while rucking which seemed to get him back on track defensively, letting him get mobile had at least as much benefit for him as it does Levi.

Next week, I'd give Kreuzer a rest, bring Weitering back in as the KPD, and play Jones in the ruck and around the ground far more than we have previously. Hawthorn have lost Big Boy, they are as weak in the ruck as any team in the comp, they will need to ruck Roughead with Ceglar, and Jones could be quite effective as he can keep pace with Roughead!

McKay will get slaughtered by Roughead, because as soon as the teams spread from the stoppage Roughead will be pushing solo inside F50 and McKay will be watching it happen from 20m away!

Kreuzer could play next week and if not Lobbe will.

Kreuzer could play next week and if not Lobbe will.

Lobbe is less deserving of a run than McKay, we'd be better off rucking Kerr! If he'd been fit De Koning might have even been a better option for a game or two!

You are sounding like a member of our MC!

Based on what I can see, our current three amigos are shameless impostors compared to their predecessors. I'm hoping it's just injuries, lack of game time etc. and not some inherent, unfixable issue.

And Cripps is in real danger of becoming our next Judd. At least Bolton has publicly flagged this and has indicated that he needs help.

Kennedy goes all right, he's not silky but he keeps going and will crash and bash all day.
Ed is a worry, great work ethic, application and endurance but woeful foot skills, we will probably need an upgrade on him if we're ever going to play finals again.

For what it's worth I agree with you.
Sacking the coach might give us a temporary sugar hit but ultimately it would lead to our ruin.
Most supporters underestimated the dire state of our list, brought about by decades of negligence and poor management, there's simply no easy options.
The harsh reality is that it might be 6 or 8 years until it reaches fruition, until Curnow, Weitering, Dow, O'Brien, SPS, McKay and the likes are old enough and experienced enough to form a quality core which we've lacked since the 1990's.
The hard work is all ahead of us, and one of the hardest things we have to do is to convince the young players that their day will come if they stick.
Sack the coach now and it all unravels.

Hear, Hear !!

I'll SPEW if I hear one more commentator say how impressive St Kilda's pressure was last night.

I know it's not feasible but ... I swear our players are instructed to pick out a teammate who is under the MOST pressure and pass it to him.  Wait, maybe it IS feasible? Yes, I see it now - success (eventually) through adversity.  By God, Bolton's a genius!

Also have to agree with Sellers 100% this morning who wants the club to sack everyone who has anything to do with sports "science".  Spend the time and energy in improving player's actual football skills. That would help.

The subjective "Most", as reported but it is not reality, most of the posters the Hun quote are not even Carlton supporters, so they base there argument on opposition fans hating the Carlton jumper!

No doubt about that, why the focus on this jumper?

We know this jumper was preferred by many Carlton fans, just from our very own forums feedback.

Three facts that won't suit the media's position so you won't hear it reported, someone from our club has to find the balls to take some media heat or we are going to go extinct!

re my comments.

They were all in relation to the people on this site, not the wider footballing community.

I just got through saying your focus on the media is unhealthy.....prove it again.
Simply, WGAF what the media think about OUR jumper.
Do we like it? That is all that matters.

re my comments.

They were all in relation to the people on this site, not the wider footballing community.

I just got through saying your focus on the media is unhealthy.....prove it again.
Simply, WGAF what the media think about OUR jumper.
Do we like it? That is all that matters.

I don't, it's insipid.

I don't, it's insipid.

...and did you like the pure white one? or the baby blue one?

I don't, it's insipid.

Agree... we looked like the dirty chai latte's, not the Navy Blues....

Agree... we looked like the dirty chai latte's, not the Navy Blues....

Same question to you...
Did you like the white version or the baby blue ones previously?

Same question to you...
Did you like the white version or the baby blue ones previously?

Not a real fan of the alternates but given the choice I'take the baby blue over the white or dirty chai look.....

Not a real fan of the alternates but given the choice I'take the baby blue over the white or dirty chai look.....

So "no" is the correct answer.
Thanks.

Bwhahaha... I actually don’t mind the Baby Blue.
The Grey doesn’t really grab me, the white was ok, maybe not fear inducing, but ok.

...and did you like the pure white one? or the baby blue one?

Nope, I think there was one there which I didn't mind but I can't remember.
It can't be that hard to come up with something decent.
But if "we are the Navy Blues" then it must contain Navy Blue. 

Baby blue was the most God awful thing we've ever worn.

Awful away jumpers being put into perspective with what Hawthorn is wearing right now. Pink and brown stripes? Really?

Double post.

That trash bag we wore last night is a putrid and failed marketing attempt. The white us a logical reversal of the colours we wear in our regulation guernsey, the baby blue is at least blue. The grey looks like a poor 80’s attempt at trying to be all 2000’s and the space age future. The coaches should be all knocking out stats on Commodore 64s and we should be serving Tang at quarter time.

That trash bag we wore last night is a putrid and failed marketing attempt. The white us a logical reversal of the colours we wear in our regulation guernsey, the baby blue is at least blue. The grey looks like a poor 80’s attempt at trying to be all 2000’s and the space age future. The coaches should be all knocking out stats on Commodore 64s and we should be serving Tang at quarter time.

Maybe Elon Musk could build us a little submarine ?

Simply, WGAF what the media think about OUR jumper.
Do we like it? That is all that matters.

I think you are naive if you think the personal derision our club wears from the likes of has-been players in Ling and Taylor has no effect!

It's just another cross to bear, and the continual repetition that sort of criticism brings has a real world influence on players and sponsors.

It's too easy and simplistic for fans to say the players shouldn't hear, watch or read the media. They cannot divorce themselves from the reality that they live in, they are bathed in the commentary daily, as are sponsors and potential sponsors.

Effects like pareidolia are not some not a crazy alternative reality conspiracy theory, they are very very real! Like it or lump it, what people hear, read or see does influence their opinion consciously and sub-consciously!

If anyone thinks I'll sit back non-reactive and let spuds like Ling and Taylor throw stones and make comments like that about our club, passively spreading my butt cheeks for them to have a free serve, they have got another thing coming.

The fact our club officials are so meek and mild in the light of this sort of slanderous media barrage is even more disgusting, no wonder blokes like Tom Elliott have oxygen! In the absence of some fight, we have to assume people like The Judge, Liddle, Judd, McKay, SOS and others all agree with them!

How can fans take joy or solace in the progress of children, while putting up with those spuds hanging crap on the club right through-out the broadcast at every available opportunity?

Baby blue was the most God awful thing we've ever worn.

Awful away jumpers being put into perspective with what Hawthorn is wearing right now. Pink and brown stripes? Really?

Hawthorn's away strips are in a different realm of bad. Its a standing joke.

re my comments.

They were all in relation to the people on this site, not the wider footballing community.

I just got through saying your focus on the media is unhealthy.....prove it again.
Simply, WGAF what the media think about OUR jumper.
Do we like it? That is all that matters.

I like it

Hawthorn's away strips are in a different realm of bad. Its a standing joke.

Nobody gives a feck, when last did McAvaney, McFarlane, BT or Ling last come out and pot any Hawthorn strip in the official media?

The jumpers are just an excuse they use to have another whack at our club, they are addicted to kicking us, it's become too easy for them and our club officials have made it easy for them. Grow some balls Carlton and call them out!

I like it

It's not about whether the jumper is any good or not, it's the media's public act of derision you should worry about!

It's not even like the media is just talking down Carlton, they are talking down the whole AFL brand, the AFL who decides that we need to wear an alternative strip against the Aints!

There’s one thing - and one thing only - that will shut the media harpies up. Winning. The club knows this.

At the moment we have no voice or credibility and unfortunately we just have to grin and bear it.

Even when we get pulverized and bullied all night and yet the first hard tackle we lay gets pinged for being dangerous. Even when clear marks are disallowed. Even when the opposition handballs it directly out of bounds but the umpire is in the wrong spot to see. Even when every other club kicks out over the line in practically every game yet we get penalized twice in the one game.

Winning doesn’t just bring respect, it brings privileges.

new forward coach,new defence coach and new midfield coach ,new fitness /strength coach  and new medical department and how early can pre season start.

That trash bag we wore last night is a putrid and failed marketing attempt. The white us a logical reversal of the colours we wear in our regulation guernsey, the baby blue is at least blue. The grey looks like a poor 80’s attempt at trying to be all 2000’s and the space age future. The coaches should be all knocking out stats on Commodore 64s and we should be serving Tang at quarter time.

My position is similar.

I think a simple reversal of the Navy and White plus a few accents. Not groundbreaking, but also no need to reinvent the wheel. Like some of our old clash jumpers.

And while I'm at it, can we go back to the more modern, rounded CFC monogram ? I know the squashed vintage version is meant to remind us of our glorious past, but it's ugly. And if it's meant to inspire the players, well............


(http://home.spin.net.au/boristhebeetle/clash 1.png)

(http://home.spin.net.au/boristhebeetle/clash 2.png)

I think you are naive if you think the personal derision our club wears from the likes of has-been players in Ling and Taylor has no effect!

It's just another cross to bear, and the continual repetition that sort of criticism brings has a real world influence on players and sponsors.

It's too easy and simplistic for fans to say the players shouldn't hear, watch or read the media. They cannot divorce themselves from the reality that they live in, they are bathed in the commentary daily, as are sponsors and potential sponsors.

Effects like pareidolia are not some not a crazy alternative reality conspiracy theory, they are very very real! Like it or lump it, what people hear, read or see does influence their opinion consciously and sub-consciously!

If anyone thinks I'll sit back non-reactive and let spuds like Ling and Taylor throw stones and make comments like that about our club, passively spreading my butt cheeks for them to have a free serve, they have got another thing coming.

The fact our club officials are so meek and mild in the light of this sort of slanderous media barrage is even more disgusting, no wonder blokes like Tom Elliott have oxygen! In the absence of some fight, we have to assume people like The Judge, Liddle, Judd, McKay, SOS and others all agree with them!

How can fans take joy or solace in the progress of children, while putting up with those spuds hanging crap on the club right through-out the broadcast at every available opportunity?

If i am capable of living my life without letting comments by those in the media getting to me about my beloved blues, then i'm sure those within the club are too.

Its not about whether it gets to them. Its whether you worry about them getting to you, if you can control it, if your energy is better foccussed elsewhere.

You don't need a blanket ban of media. You don't need to read it all. You don't need to analyse everything you read.
All i'm saying is that if the media want to have a go at us about our alternative strip. Let them. Who cares? Are we going to play poorer football because of it? If the answer is yes, then we need to find some better footballers/administrators.

Nathan Buckley carved out a fair career for someone who was constantly criticised despite being a great of the game. That continued into his coaching career too. You know what, he's going alright at present. Luckily he doesn't let the media dictate his moods/moves.

My position is similar.

I think a simple reversal of the Navy and White plus a few accents. Not groundbreaking, but also no need to reinvent the wheel. Like some of our old clash jumpers.

And while I'm at it, can we go back to the more modern, rounded CFC monogram ? I know the squashed vintage version is meant to remind us of our glorious past, but it's ugly. And if it's meant to inspire the players, well............


(http://home.spin.net.au/boristhebeetle/clash 1.png)

(http://home.spin.net.au/boristhebeetle/clash 2.png)

...and there were plenty of people who didn't like that one either.
Funnily enough, most of the people who didn't like that one suggested something like the greyish alternative we have now.

You won't please everyone.

...and there were plenty of people who didn't like that one either.
Funnily enough, most of the people who didn't like that one suggested something like the greyish alternative we have now.

You won't please everyone.

Yes, I agree.

Nathan Buckley carved out a fair career for someone who was constantly criticised despite being a great of the game. That continued into his coaching career too. You know what, he's going alright at present. Luckily he doesn't let the media dictate his moods/moves.

Buckley is a prime example, for much of his initial career he had McGuire, Pert and even Malthouse out in the media actively defending him, at least until Malthouse cracked the sad and switched sides!

Where is our executive branch, hiding under a blanket somewhere growing in their own dark damp like fungii!

Buckley is a prime example, for much of his initial career he had McGuire, Pert and even Malthouse out in the media actively defending him, at least until Malthouse cracked the sad and switched sides!

Where is our executive branch, hiding under a blanket somewhere growing in their own dark damp like fungii!

...and he had 10 times as many critics as anything we have......and you might say ours are justified.

Big difference.

All we have to do is try and people are happy.
He was accused of trying too hard!

...and he had 10 times as many critics as anything we have......and you might say ours are justified.

Big difference.

All we have to do is try and people are happy.
He was accused of trying too hard!

I accept your point, but it's doesn't answer the question, where is our invisible executive branch?

FMD, I suspect if Tom Elliott marches his army into Princes Park on Monday morning he'll probably find a ghost town with a note that reads Finders Keepers!

I accept your point, but it's doesn't answer the question, where is our invisible executive branch?

No it doesn't answer your question, the post before you decided to sidetrack it does.

They are keeping their heads down and trying not to draw attention to the club at present.
Anything they come out and say will have the opposite effect. It will lead to further criticisms.

Don't feed the fire.

There’s one thing - and one thing only - that will shut the media harpies up. Winning. The club knows this.

At the moment we have no voice or credibility and unfortunately we just have to grin and bear it.

Even when we get pulverized and bullied all night and yet the first hard tackle we lay gets pinged for being dangerous. Even when clear marks are disallowed. Even when the opposition handballs it directly out of bounds but the umpire is in the wrong spot to see. Even when every other club kicks out over the line in practically every game yet we get penalized twice in the one game.

Winning doesn’t just bring respect, it brings privileges.

True

No it doesn't answer your question, the post before you decided to sidetrack it does.

They are keeping their heads down and trying not to draw attention to the club at present.
Anything they come out and say will have the opposite effect. It will lead to further criticisms.

Don't feed the fire.

They are going to lose a whole generation of supporters, not my generation, but a future supporter base, they may as well shut up shop because it becomes just a matter of time!

I'm passionate because I've seen a number of Australian businesses try this head down tactic as a means to survival on the vicious international stage, all it did was open the door for their competitors and ensured their ultimate demise!

It's very naive to think there isn't a battle for the survival going on within and between AFL clubs, and that other clubs might well view our own downfall as a way of securing their own survival! Their are many who already think that with the expansion clubs the slices of the pie are too thin, and that the pie isn't capable of growing to a sustainable level.

Do you think Sheedy would blink twice at a bigger slice of the AFL pie for CheatsFC if it came from a Carlton evaporation? No doubt in public he'd say one thing, how bad it was for the game, how tragic for the fans, but privately he'd be heating things up to ensure it happened even faster.

Whilst we are at it, sack captain Carlton and let's change from Nike to Adidas.

Our real problem is green grass, we almost never win on green grass!

Whilst we are at it, sack captain Carlton and let's change from Nike to Adidas.

And Alf the bootstudder!
How that Teflon coated numpty escapes criticism... I’d love to see the pics is all I can say !

They are going to lose a whole generation of supporters, not my generation, but a future supporter base, they may as well shut up shop because it becomes just a matter of time!

I'm passionate because I've seen a number of Australian businesses try this head down tactic as a means to survival on the vicious international stage, all it did was open the door for their competitors and ensured their ultimate demise!

It's very naive to think there isn't a battle for the survival going on within and between AFL clubs, and that other clubs might well view our own downfall as a way of securing their own survival! Their are many who already think that with the expansion clubs the slices of the pie are too thin, and that the pie isn't capable of growing to a sustainable level.

Do you think Sheedy would blink twice at a bigger slice of the AFL pie for CheatsFC if it came from a Carlton evaporation? No doubt in public he'd say one thing, how bad it was for the game, how tragic for the fans, but privately he'd be heating things up to ensure it happened even faster.

You're very naive if you think our CEO making a media statement will save a generation of supporters from leaving the club. Wins, nothing but wins will stop that.

Do i think that Sheedy.....
I don't give a flying rats tossbag what sheedy thinks, or anyone else in the media.

The time for talking is long passed. Talking offers ammunition to the media, and most of the time it infuriates our own supporters.
Keep your head down and focus on what the club can do to fix the problem we are in, and not what Sheedy or anyone else thinks.

You're very naive if you think our CEO making a media statement will save a generation of supporters from leaving the club. Wins, nothing but wins will stop that.

Do i think that Sheedy.....
I don't give a flying rats tossbag what sheedy thinks, or anyone else in the media.

The time for talking is long passed. Talking offers ammunition to the media, and most of the time it infuriates our own supporters.
Keep your head down and focus on what the club can do to fix the problem we are in, and not what Sheedy or anyone else thinks.

Thoughts become actions.

Thoughts become actions.

So waste them on the media and not something that actually matters, like getting your clubs debt paid off and winning games of footy.

Good plan!

Thoughts become actions.

So now you’re a 1990’s personal motivation expert !  :o

So now you’re a 1990’s personal motivation expert !  :o

Is it any worse than the Noughties feel good rubbish being served up now?

Apparently everyone can play nice and get a gold star for participation! ::)

Free form unstructured learning could certainly explain our game plan! ;D

I’m sure if you write a book you’ll get someone interested ????????

I’m sure if you write a book you’ll get someone interested ????????

I'm sure someone genuinely interested would read the contents, and not just revert to personal sledging after reading the cover! ;)

I'm sure someone genuinely interested would read the contents, and not just revert to personal sledging after reading the cover! ;)

I’m the ceo that you have wet dreams about kido !
Two way street...

I’m the ceo that you have wet dreams about kido !
Two way street...

Well you best revise your posting history because it certainly won't enhance your resume! ;)

Well you best revise your posting history because it certainly won't enhance your resume! ;)

Give it up and go back to your faraday cage !  :o

Give it up and go back to your faraday cage !  :o

You can cast aspersions all you like, once you start that rubbish you've already lost, you won't get a bite from me!

You can cast aspersions all you like, once you start that rubbish you've already lost, you won't get a bite from me!

This is what you accuse the media of doing !
And here you are doing it me !
I’ll just join the throng who don’t bother with your postings anymore...  :-X
Xo

This is what you accuse the media of doing !
And here you are doing it me !
I’ll just join the throng who don’t bother with your postings anymore...  :-X
Xo

I differentiate between the behaviour of media entities and the behaviour of individuals.

When Barry Hall's comments went to air, the audio had to pass through the scrutiny of a number of individuals before it was broadcast. Most of them scurried like rats when the Barrett laughter came to light!

When Ling commented on Lamb, and reviewed the video live to air multiple times, there is a whole broadcast crew working on making that happen. But in that case Ling has the opportunity to choose his words, in the end Lamb gets banned for a media driven his opinion and will play the rest of his career with the stigma of an eye gouger even though he actually didn't!

Given our club history, will we stand up for him?

btw., How soft Christian, wording the charge as "eye region", the MRP(Christian) fully folded and influenced by the media! But apparently that doesn't happen and never happens, even to our our lowly struggling club! ::)

Yes, it appears the evidence was not really there....

Ah the classic jumper debate.

I don't have an aversion to the alternative strips.

I certainly don't have such a distaste that most seem to.

I do know that every single jumper that comes out has those in favour of it, and those against it.

For the record, i think this jumper was greeted with the most amount of acceptance over previous versions.
I also think jumper sales would not be a good indication, as i don't think many people are buying much Carlton merch at present, regardless of what it looks like.

The difficulty I have is young supporters can't really identify with those club colours after they're scrapped for the next and latest incarnation.  They're a cheap marketing exercise and though I hate Richmond, they should have never been compelled to wear their clash guernsey in the GF.  Collingwood hasn't succumbed anywhere near the level others have

The difficulty I have is young supporters can't really identify with those club colours after they're scrapped for the next and latest incarnation.  They're a cheap marketing exercise and though I hate Richmond, they should have never been compelled to wear their clash guernsey in the GF.  Collingwood hasn't succumbed anywhere near the level others have

It could be worse....
(https://cdndata.bigfooty.com/2017/03/346378_1e85e4ed2e1e9976fa984808cff0378e.jpg)

At least Carlton and Collingwood steered clear of this nonsense in the McCAllum cup

At least Carlton and Collingwood steered clear of this nonsense in the McCAllum cup

Is publicly supporting the fight against breast cancer nonsense?

What does Roughead think about supporting the fight against a cancer with a pink striped jumper?

You do know some of our most loathed one off alternative jumpers that while promoting a corporation had a charitable cause attached. The changing of the jumper typically has a requirement for charity attached before the AFL grants a permit to have the jumper changed. They would not approved the special alternatives strips without the attached charitable cause. Clubs have no choice in this, they signed the rights to logos and jumpers over the the AFL many years ago because individual clubs are just not big enough to defend the trademarks.

The jumper discussion is obviously a diversion and i’m Ok with that - stops me potting the players which is becoming increasingly difficult.

Once again we’ve been led by developments overseas - clash strips are de rigour for all other codes with the European clubs leading the way. Yes, it’s a cynical marketing exercise (witness the frenzy on eBay when the top English clubs release their strips for the coming season) but it’s really driven by TV.

There’s no going back now that Richmond accepted the directive and acquiesced last year (and won - that helps!). I also think it’s not too much to ask if it helps those who may be visually impaired.

It will be fascinating to see if Gil tries to tell Eddie to switch it up. I actually did have a bit of trouble when we played them a few weeks ago. The black on their backs should be white when they play us.

Is publicly supporting the fight against breast cancer nonsense?

What does Roughead think about supporting the fight against a cancer with a pink striped jumper?

You do know some of our most loathed one off alternative jumpers that while promoting a corporation had a charitable cause attached. The changing of the jumper typically has a requirement for charity attached before the AFL grants a permit to have the jumper changed. They would not approved the special alternatives strips without the attached charitable cause. Clubs have no choice in this, they signed the rights to logos and jumpers over the the AFL many years ago because individual clubs are just not big enough to defend the trademarks.

Do your eyes work?

Its not about the charity, its about the design and the colour clash it brings.

Freddy Kreuger was chosen to wear a red and green striped jumper (Geelong horizontal style) because the writer/director Wes Craven read a study about the 2 colours being seen against eachother making people uncomfortable. There is some kids saying that says similar about 'red and green should not be seen together unless there is a colour inbetween' or something like that.
Simply the mere appearance of those colours together gets you off-side.

Its similar to that jumper.

That doesn't mean you can't find a jumper that represents the same thing.
Brisbane have similar colours and managed to find a good comprimise for their AFLW jumper. Hawks could do similar with their white jumper with a hawk on it.
(http://d273fid4rql9oz.cloudfront.net/public/uploads/catalog/product/large/b/r/BRIS-9800212-AFLW-GUERNSEY---CLASH_FRONT__1882206330.jpg)(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fa/e5/af/fae5af563da99d713a52857640f4e582.jpg)

Funnily enough i suggested years ago that we have the best jumper for the cause as we can use an all pink alternative with the CFC monogram and still be instantly recognisable.
(https://proxy.bigfooty.com/forum/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FmIgpL.png&hash=a1778ec91c04e05ad5aa2276c34a4120)


So don't bring 'the cause' into this. Focus on the product being presented.
I don't think our saints clash jumper is half as bad as people make out.
Most people opposed to it are opposed to the idea and will use the argument no matter what we come up with.

The Hawks jumper they wore against Brisbane is an abomination, it's no wonder that they lost the game.

So don't bring 'the cause' into this. Focus on the product being presented.

They are intimately connected, what you or I think is irrelevant, there is a message attached to some of those jumpers.

The Dawks jumper image you made comment on is a limited use targeted charitable strip, not a valid part of an argument about general use alternative strips, it is an extremist example.

As for alternate strips, clubs submit any number of options to the AFL, only the AFL has the power to decide which are approved. Why the AFL hasn't acted on Collingwood is a very different question. Some argued Carlton should do the same, but I suppose Collingwood isn't financially underwritten by the AFL like Carlton, who would have thought some external influence might have such effects! It must be a conspiracy!

Is publicly supporting the fight against breast cancer nonsense?

Did I say that?  Both Carlton and Collingwood wore (wear) tributes on their jumpers and promoted the cause of the CLINIC as did the media.  It's been 20 matches thus far between the two clubs.  You're not to know but I've lost three family members in the last  two years to cancer ... prostate, breast, and recently, brain.  Think please before you press "enter".  I contribute to all three causes

They are intimately connected, what you or I think is irrelevant, there is a message attached to some of those jumpers.

The Dawks jumper image you made comment on is a limited use targeted charitable strip, not a valid part of an argument about general use alternative strips, it is an extremist example.

As for alternate strips, clubs submit any number of options to the AFL, only the AFL has the power to decide which are approved. Why the AFL hasn't acted on Collingwood is a very different question. Some argued Carlton should do the same, but I suppose Collingwood isn't financially underwritten by the AFL like Carlton, who would have thought some external influence might have such effects! It must be a conspiracy!

Blah blah blah lets completely miss the point again.

I understand alternative strips, 1 off strips and all that nonsense.

That doesn't mean you come up with the ugliest jumper you can. Sombody had to choose that jumper. Somebody had to approve that jumper. They can do better. EOS.

Did I say that?  Both Carlton and Collingwood wore (wear) tributes on their jumpers and promoted the cause of the CLINIC as did the media.  It's been 20 matches thus far between the two clubs.  You're not to know but I've lost three family members in the last  two years to cancer ... prostate, breast, and recently, brain.  Think please before you press "enter".  I contribute to all three causes

Lots of us have lost family to such issues.

What is the point of labelling the use of a charitable jumper for something like the Peter Mac Cup nonsense, if we chose to do so?

Or that Hawks jumper in the case above, you did label it a nonsense, didn't you?

Relative to your history and other efforts wouldn't the consistent approach be support it regardless of the look.

Isn't the look relatively trivial in the greater cause, but yet it is a strong symbol of support?

What is the point of labelling the use of a charitable jumper for something like the Peter Mac Cup nonsense, if we chose to do so?

Or that Hawks jumper in the case above, you did label it a nonsense, didn't you?

You don't read do you ... I DID NOT SAY THAT WITH REGARD TO THOSE PETER MAC JUMPERS !!

Our jumpers (as with the Collingwood guernsey) were understated but still receive big media coverage

You don't read do you ... I DID NOT SAY THAT WITH REGARD TO THOSE PETER MAC JUMPERS !!

Our jumpers (as with the Collingwood guernsey) were understated but still receive big media coverage

Capcom, you are making cross references to arguments that don't exist.

I wrote "......like Peter Mac Cup", in reference to the Hawks jumper in Kruddler's post that you commented below! I never accused you of bagging the Peter Mac Cup jumpers, or the lack of them!

If your post is referencing something different to the Hawks charitable jumper below, then make it an explicit reference!

Quote from: kruddler on July 15, 2018, 10:17:04 am

It could be worse....
(https://cdndata.bigfooty.com/2017/03/346378_1e85e4ed2e1e9976fa984808cff0378e.jpg)

Quote from: capcom on July 15, 2018, 10:29:14 am

At least Carlton and Collingwood steered clear of this nonsense in the McCAllum cup

I've no choice than to assume the "this' in your post is a reference to the Hawks charitable jumper above it!

We got pinged twice on Friday for stepping on the line while kicking in after a behind.

Looking at the footage I can't argue with the call - definitely there.

What is infuriating though is the number of times I've seen it happen in other games this round with no call. I think I even saw the umpire run up after the kick and warn the player that he was over the line.

Barb - saw both at the game and the right decisions were made - Simpson was trying to get it down the middle as far as he could, dunno what Daisy was thinking!

There have probably been two such decisions for the year!  Players are getting away with a lot more regarding fifty metre penalties not being paid for knocking the ball out of hands, and being late to the contest as well.

As a curiosity, we had a fifty paid against us where the interchange bench was.  Does anyone know if it was paid because a player coming onto the ground encroached the 10m zone?  If so, what a ridiculous rule - surely if they are not part of the play, who cares where they are - amend the rule so that you can be close, but not interfere in the play, if you do 50m.

Barb - saw both at the game and the right decisions were made - Simpson was trying to get it down the middle as far as he could, dunno what Daisy was thinking!

There have probably been two such decisions for the year!  Players are getting away with a lot more regarding fifty metre penalties not being paid for knocking the ball out of hands, and being late to the contest as well.

As a curiosity, we had a fifty paid against us where the interchange bench was.  Does anyone know if it was paid because a player coming onto the ground encroached the 10m zone?  If so, what a ridiculous rule - surely if they are not part of the play, who cares where they are - amend the rule so that you can be close, but not interfere in the play, if you do 50m.

Player coming off the ground encroached.

This decision is partly why we are where we are at regarding issues with rules.

No game sense from the umpires.  If someone isn't intefering with the bloke taking the kick, then maybe let it go.  I understand we don't want people going into the protected area for various reasons such as putting the kicker off, or perhaps finding an advantage to tackle when the opportunity presents but players coming off and on the ground through the designated interchange leaves people with few options.  1.  Take an extremely wide berth to interchange, or 2. Wait until after the kick has been taken.

Thanks, Thry.  Basically can't have an interchange happen if there is a free/mark at the interchange, as there are limits as to where players can come on and off the ground?  Messy.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-16/big-blue-talks-about-heart-breathing-scare

With Krooze going down the same way as Marchbank suggests the something is amiss with the medicos down at Princes Park.

Sounds like they were given 'something' but had an adverse reaction to it.  :o

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-16/big-blue-talks-about-heart-breathing-scare

With Krooze going down the same way as Marchbank suggests the something is amiss with the medicos down at Princes Park.

Sounds like they were given 'something' but had an adverse reaction to it.  :o

I didn't read it that way. I read when Krooz said that "he never had something like it", he was referring to the symptoms.
I don't think there is any evidence, based on that article, that "they were given something".

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-16/big-blue-talks-about-heart-breathing-scare

With Krooze going down the same way as Marchbank suggests the something is amiss with the medicos down at Princes Park.

Sounds like they were given 'something' but had an adverse reaction to it.  :o

Wonder if they took something like "no-doz" or similar. Something got the catecholamines pumping from the adrenal glands.

Wonder if they took something like "no-doz" or similar. Something got the catecholamines pumping from the adrenal glands.

No Doz is classed by WADA as a category S6 Stimulant.

It's often wrongly reported as a blood test limit, but it is a urine test.

Can anyone be 100% safe taking high dose caffeine, every individuals body will probably process it slightly differently?

Wonder if they took something like "no-doz" or similar. Something got the catecholamines pumping from the adrenal glands.

Apparently SVT is very common  and “attacks often happen for no obvious reason. However, they may be triggered by a change in posture, exertion, emotional upset, coffee or alcohol.”

Putting in a hard sprint to get to a ruck contest could have been the trigger.  If I remember correctly, Kreuzer was involved in a heavy clash just before he went off.  Perhaps that was a factor  :-\

Apparently SVT is very common  and “attacks often happen for no obvious reason. However, they may be triggered by a change in posture, exertion, emotional upset, coffee or alcohol.”

Putting in a hard sprint to get to a ruck contest could have been the trigger. If I remember correctly, Kreuzer was involved in a heavy clash just before he went off.  Perhaps that was a factor  :-\

re Bold...
that was the statement from the club during the game. Replay showed he was tackled, but it was far from a tough tackle. You'd see much tougher tackles at training.

re Bold...
that was the statement from the club during the game. Replay showed he was tackled, but it was far from a tough tackle. You'd see much tougher tackles at training.

You’re probably right but he did struggle to get up.  Perhaps the SVT kicked in before that clash  :-\