2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

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Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #150 – July 30, 2018, 05:24:49 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on July 30, 2018, 05:16:11 pm

Agree..you cant whack blokes in the head, May must have slipped a sneaky one into Charlie unnoticed...dont have a problem with Charlie whacking a SOB like May....

My issue with it is that it was stupid and unnecessary, CC is one of two players we cannot afford to have on the sidelines and cant win without at the minute. Only positive is that Kerr will get an opportunity I guess.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #151 – July 30, 2018, 05:33:43 pm

Forget Charlie being done, but May getting a week for the Ed bump, that's effectively open season on Carlton players!

You could be forgiven for thinking the Curnow's are not AFL favorites for whatever reason!

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #152 – July 30, 2018, 05:38:07 pm

Told you he was in trouble, but one week for May, WTF?!?

May = Protected species. High, late, medium contact.... Two weeks minimum or MRO is taking the piss.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #153 – July 30, 2018, 05:38:45 pm

Quote

Match Review Officer Michael Christian graded the [Charlie] incident as intentional conduct, with low impact to the head, meaning Curnow will miss Carlton's clash with GWS on Sunday if he accepts.

...

The [May] incident was graded as careless conduct, with medium impact to the head. It means May will miss Gold Coast's game against Melbourne at the MCG on Sunday if he accepts the ban.

What a crock!

Charlie's hit on May was like hitting a tank with a feather. Charlie seemed to be trying to avoid the contact at the last minute and he showed concern for May - who milked the incident to ensure the down field free.

On the other hand, May's hit on Ed was premeditated and intended to hurt.

We should appeal this one and show footage of the May hit to demonstrate the inappropriateness of Charlie's penalty; if May gets a week, Charlie should get a fine at worst.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #154 – July 30, 2018, 05:47:26 pm

Quote from: Lods on July 30, 2018, 04:39:19 pm

"Drive" is the key word...momentum had them both going forward and none of Cripps's actions after that momentum took over was designed to exaggerate the impact with the ground.
Cripps falls in tandem but because Swallow is slightly lower he takes the hit harder.

That vision of Swallow after the tackle wasn't great, but Cripps has done nothing wrong. Neither of Swallow's arms were pinned, and Cripps' left hand and left knee are on the grass, giving some protection to both he and Swallow.

Be very harsh if gets rubbed out / fined for that.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #155 – July 30, 2018, 06:03:00 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on July 29, 2018, 08:55:28 pm

I agreed with you regarding polson being first in the gun.

There is something endearing about him, but I take exception to the stats.

Simpson played sporadically in his first three games registering zero possessions. He said recently that in two of the games he was only on the Park halfway through the last quarter.

...and?

He wasnt good enough to get more game time. Doesnt change anything.

Point is that early days, both players are struggling....both for game time and to simply get the ball.

People are writing off Polson because of crap stats.
Just showing people that crap stats 'means' that Simpson can't play either.
OR
Perhaps don't write players off so early is the point.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #156 – July 30, 2018, 06:07:25 pm

Quote from: kruddler on July 30, 2018, 06:03:00 pm

...and?

He wasnt good enough to get more game time. Doesnt change anything.

Point is that early days, both players are struggling....both for game time and to simply get the ball.

People are writing off Polson because of crap stats.
Just showing people that crap stats 'means' that Simpson can't play either.
OR
Perhaps don't write players off so early is the point.

Point is that Simpsons stats are artificially deflated for his first three games by playing feck all minutes, with 0 posessions.

THAT is what you call statistical bias, even though your underlying point has merit.

To add further weight to the statistical disparity in that comparison:

Kade's first 3 games in % time on ground:

Game 1 - 30%
Game 2 - 2%
Game 3 - 14%

Cameron Polson's first 3 games in % time on ground:

Game 1 - 74%
Game 2 - 70%
Game 3 - 79%

It is not unreasonable to think that had Simpson had greater opportunity in his first 3 games he may have made more impact on the games he played. Its also worth noting that his next 3 games were similar and only has 1 match where he got 80% game time.

Finally, I am prepared to give Cameron more time, but unlike most of our other drafees this one doesnt look like he belongs (at this stage).

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #157 – July 30, 2018, 06:24:58 pm

who cares?

Move on gents!

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #158 – July 30, 2018, 06:30:50 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on July 30, 2018, 06:07:25 pm

Point is that Simpsons stats are artificially deflated for his first three games by playing feck all minutes, with 0 posessions.

THAT is what you call statistical bias, even though your underlying point has merit.

Not that it matters, but lets use the first 8 games, without the first 3.

Average possessions jumped from 2.75 -> 4.4 possessions per game.

In Simpsons 4th game, he played 82% game time and amassed 9 touches.
In Polsons 8th game, he played 85% game time and managed 15 touches.

Simpsons first 3 games were certainly not great, but the rest of them (up to date) are not any better than what Polson is putting out....despite being older at the same stage of their career.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #159 – July 30, 2018, 06:55:33 pm

To add some light and shade to this discussion somewhat, using Anthony Koutoufides in 2004 as a little bit of a benchmark about what the norm was for an AFL player then, you quickly see that players get much more of the footy these days and the statistical comparison doesnt quite add up.

Where Cripps and Murphy are seeing the ball 35+ times, Kouta was having his best games getting close to 30 touches and his poorer games his stats were in the teens and it might be fair to say that the playing field is not quite comparable between them and leave that as a footnote to the discussion with the only conclusion being that currently, Cameron Polson is yet to stamp his AFL credentials and that he has another season or two to do so.

What I do worry about is that our midget sized coach better not have a soft spot for midget sized players with a heart of gold just because that reflects the way he sees himself.

@Flyboy, this is all about discussing footy. If you don't like it, keep scrolling. Kruddler and I are having a rather grown up discussion regarding the merit of a teenager, and how to measure it, using empirical evidence from reputable websites and prior examples. If not for these discussions in a season where we have been diabolically bad, what the feck else would you like us to talk about???

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #160 – July 30, 2018, 07:09:54 pm

mahjong!

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #161 – July 30, 2018, 07:15:51 pm

Just got back from the Gold coast, it is more enjoyable to travel when you win. It was a great move to start Samo off the back flank as it really freed him up. Silvagni had a good game and Byrne was good in the first half. A couple of times Carlton players hit their targets with their passes and the player then held their marks.I think it is called teamwork. It is amazing how good a team can look when they do the simple things well. Players were very passionate about the result which was good to see. The third quarter was incredible, when was the last time we kicked seven in a quarter? Still a lot of work to do but it was better than what has been produced lately.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #162 – July 30, 2018, 07:18:27 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on July 30, 2018, 06:55:33 pm

To add some light and shade to this discussion somewhat, using Anthony Koutoufides in 2004 as a little bit of a benchmark about what the norm was for an AFL player then, you quickly see that players get much more of the footy these days and the statistical comparison doesnt quite add up.

Where Cripps and Murphy are seeing the ball 35+ times, Kouta was having his best games getting close to 30 touches and his poorer games his stats were in the teens and it might be fair to say that the playing field is not quite comparable between them and leave that as a footnote to the discussion with the only conclusion being that currently, Cameron Polson is yet to stamp his AFL credentials and that he has another season or two to do so.

What I do worry about is that our midget sized coach better not have a soft spot for midget sized players with a heart of gold just because that reflects the way he sees himself.

@Flyboy, this is all about discussing footy. If you don't like it, keep scrolling. Kruddler and I are having a rather grown up discussion regarding the merit of a teenager, and how to measure it, using empirical evidence from reputable websites and prior examples. If not for these discussions in a season where we have been diabolically bad, what the feck else would you like us to talk about???

Lets assume that 30 touches today is the same as 25 touches previously. Seems about right to me. That is an increase of 20% on the figures previously.

20% on top of Simpsons early figures are still not up to Polsons figures.

FWIW, i was never saying Polson is going to be as good as simpson, or had a better start to his career or whatever.
Simply stating that it is too early to make a definitive call on Polson based solely on his possession count at this stage, which some people are doing.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #163 – July 30, 2018, 07:22:58 pm

So Cripps dominated again, as we all know. Got a perfect 10 in the coaches votes, again.

Here's a stat i stole from facebook.

Quote

Polling 8+ AFL Coaches votes in 2018

1x: 73 players
2x: 34 players
3x: 12 players
4x: 6 players
5x: Trent Cotchin
6x: Nat Fyfe, Max Gawn, Tom Mitchell
7x:
8x: PATRICK CRIPPS

Brownlow bound?

130 players have received 8+ votes from the coaches in a game this year.
Only 1 has done it more than 6 times.

Re: 2018 Rd 18: Post Game Partying: Carlton vs Gold Coast

Reply #164 – July 30, 2018, 07:33:01 pm

Quote from: kruddler on July 30, 2018, 07:18:27 pm

Lets assume that 30 touches today is the same as 25 touches previously. Seems about right to me. That is an increase of 20% on the figures previously.

20% on top of Simpsons early figures are still not up to Polsons figures.

FWIW, i was never saying Polson is going to be as good as simpson, or had a better start to his career or whatever.
Simply stating that it is too early to make a definitive call on Polson based solely on his possession count at this stage, which some people are doing.

Its not just the poor possession count, he butchers most of his disposals, dont remember Simpson being such a poor user of the ball....
4 possies at 25% with 2 clangars and people rated his game

.....and he played on Harbrow who had 24 possies.
Next time Nick Graham goes at 25% and his man has 6 times the amount of ball I expect to see the love come forth and nominate him as BOG....
Think the Herald Sun had Jack Heron as worst on ground with 22 points, Polson was equal next with 23......Heron must have played a blinder too.....