And the winner is: _______________
I hope it is us.
I like our chances.
It was the 'Aints night. The ball bounced their way. The umpires couldn't see our frees for any money. Too many of our players were done and too many disposals didn't hit targets. They won the contested ball: they just wanted it that little bit more on the night.
Considering how well we were beaten in the middle, we did rather well.
I didn't because it was prime time, hence we would be crap, and it proved so.
Anybody on match payments, hand it back, because that's taking money you didn't earn.
Crikey we have some passengers.... I'm especially looking at you Moneybags. If I was list manager you'd be out the door the end of the season. And if I was in that role I certainly wouldn't have bothered with a list clogging hack like Newnes.
It was the 'Aints night. The ball bounced their way. The umpires couldn't see our frees for any money. Too many of our players were done and too many disposals didn't hit targets. They won the contested ball: they just wanted it that little bit more on the night.
Considering how well we were beaten in the middle, we did rather well.
That about sums it up for me Crash. Just want to add considering the amount of guys who didn't fire a shot 3 goal margin is unbelievable
I didn't because it was prime time, hence we would be crap, and it proved so.
Anybody on match payments, hand it back, because that's taking money you didn't earn.
Crikey we have some passengers.... I'm especially looking at you Moneybags. If I was list manager you'd be out the door the end of the season. And if I was in that role I certainly wouldn't have bothered with a list clogging hack like Newnes.
Really poor. But he wasn't alone. H took one mark.
Pisses me off that we decide to be a committed football side only when we feel like it. Winning in Geelong showed we can play. I want that committment week in, week out, not at our choosing. Our issue is above the shoulders, essentially mentally attitude. Bring that consistently and the rest looks after itself.
Delete
Fwd line was at its shambolic best. I'm now convinced, H and Gov are spuds. Bottom line is, they kick em, Carlton dont...again. Did people actually think they'd win 3 in a row, lol.
The Aints beat Pittonet, tagged Cripps out of it, held Doc and negated Martin. All over.
The Aints beat Pittonet, tagged Cripps out of it, held Doc and negated Martin. All over.
Yep, out-coached. We're wasting another year because, even though this season will have an asterix, it's a bit like those lightning premierships you used to play as a kid - were a great chance for lesser teams to "fluke" the pennant. Not gonna be us, I'm afraid.
Our second tier players are very average at best. That's why we are at best an average side. Not convinced that this group of "kids" is going to make it. So many ineffectual players, did some of them even go out on the ground FFS?
Fwd line was at its shambolic best. I'm now convinced, H and Gov are spuds. Bottom line is, they kick em, Carlton dont...again. Did people actually think they'd win 3 in a row, lol.
Just this. What people see in Harry is beyond me. At least McGovern can kick when he gets it. Harry, the few times he does actually get it, either shanks it or turns it over. He's also paddle hands. Hands so stuff it's impossible to mark the ball. He's always double grabbing, it's never clean!
Jones is another one. Should be instructed to never take on a risky kick. How many times has he killed momentum with one of across the ground kicks which ends up being a monumental turn over.
Just screw this club. The industry joke for 20 years and counting.
I was so angry through that game. Just dumb dumb dumb mistakes, how many stupid turnovers resulted in goals for them? Just not acceptable.
McG craps me, H I have nfi what he did except fall over a lot.
The one big positive is Jack is just about my favourite player now, already. He’s smart, hard working - I think it was in the third quarter he willed himself into the contest over and over again. That’s Cripps-like. Finally we have another him, now if we could get some of the others to wake up and get in there.
Whats thoughts on Samo?
And the umpiring was incredibly one sided. No that didn’t cost us the game but fack me there was some bizarre calls and non calls.
Steele always makes Cripps struggle...forget the last part of the game that was junk time and the Saints had throttled back...
Cripps should have started at Full Forward with Eddie and the rest clear out...
Geary on Docherty was a good move, well played Ratten...
Marshall is an athletic kid and Pittonet is more your stand and deliver type ruckman, Levi was useless and Harry even worse but Levi I will cut slack too though as he has been good this season and everyone plays a bad game.
McGovern needs dropping and doesnt suit our setup, but we are stuck with him not only didnt he work hard enough but his man was BOG to half time.
Martin was our best player by a mile and carried the team early....Setterfield and Gibbons battled but dont have the class to match it with the real quality mids and are very lightweight in terms of being physical to opposing players and being able to take over from Cripps.
Newnes has disappointed and Cuningham reverted to his natural state in the wild and was MIA.
Eddie has the smarts but has lost the pace and Butlers speed down the other end was express in comparison.
The lack of physicality in our game is terrible, players choosing to bump bcuase they dont want to risk injury by tackling and just the way the Stkilda bigger bodies menaced our smaller framed players. Cripps still has no help and we dont have enough muscle around the ball to compete when he is held.
Walsh was ok but his disposal needs work but at least he competes...
Murphy and Simpson are finished and Ed Curnow isnt far behind them.
They couldn’t play any better, the ball bounced there way, free kicks went there way, we gave them 5 goals in backline errors they gave us none, we were flat and had lots of passengers..................
Yet we lost by 3 goals! HOW?
I was so angry through that game. Just dumb dumb dumb mistakes, how many stupid turnovers resulted in goals for them? Just not acceptable.
McG craps me, H I have nfi what he did except fall over a lot.
The one big positive is Jack is just about my favourite player now, already. He’s smart, hard working - I think it was in the third quarter he willed himself into the contest over and over again. That’s Cripps-like. Finally we have another him, now if we could get some of the others to wake up and get in there.
Whats thoughts on Samo?
And the umpiring was incredibly one sided. No that didn’t cost us the game but fack me there was some bizarre calls and non calls.
Samo is the other I think offers nothing all to often. Just coasts along every week not really doing much. If they extend the legal kick distance from 15m to 20m, he is in strife.
Stocker and the mids on the rookie list like Honey need exposure. Newnes, Fish, Setterfield aren't doing it.
Whats thoughts on Samo?
Just a second tier hack. So out of his depth it's embarassing. That turn over in the middle of the ground was laughable. He and Plowman try to out do each other weekly on the most embarassing defensive effort coupled with a major turn over to cause a momentum change in the game.
You can set your watch to it. These blokes really should be renamed to "Atomic Clocks". screwin joke...
We looked very sluggish from the outset and if we were playing a top side this would have been 10 goals plus.
Only Martin, Cripps, Setterfield, Gibbons, Weitering and maybe Cunningham can hold their head high.
Lots for Teague to sort out
Defence
- Docherty may be great running out of defence but allowing Geary to kick multiple goals is unforgivable
- two brain fade switches from Jones
- Plowman’s attempt to touch the ball was hard to watch
-SPS is not a natural defender and lacks intensity and his touch was off again.
- Simpson getting on
- Williamson sloppy disposal/tripping over his own feet
Middle
- Pittonet was soundly beaten
- Murphy picks and chooses
- Newnes not good enough
- Walsh out of sorts
Forwards
- 0 output from McGovern, Casboult, Mackay
- Betts absent after quarter time
- Philp not ready
All hard to watch
Where to from here ?
And as I suspected, Doc didnt get the freedom he had for 3 weeks, Ratts gave everyone the road map to beating Carlton. Make Doc and his co defenders defend. Shut Cripps down, get 5 goals up early, easy peasy.
The most embarassing part in this 20 year saga, is the fact that it's the same mistakes, continual poor draft picks and zero progress. Why is it so hard to find someone who can kick?
It's like ground hog day.
Stocker and the mids on the rookie list like Honey need exposure. Newnes, Fish, Setterfield aren't doing it.
Yep I’m over weaklings and feeble acts
Fish wasn’t playing, thought Setters was ok
Yep I’m over weaklings and feeble acts
We have too many players who avoid contact, shirk tackling and bump when they should tackle, we are the bruise free Blues not the Navy Blues. Being intimidated by non descript hacks like Stkilda is embarrassing...
Fish wasn’t playing, thought Setters was ok
Be ok for a pick 40 but doesnt have the class or physicality to support Cripps when the skipper is being held and we need a lift.
Too light in the body and not enough tricks....good Indian but wont ever be a Chief.
random thoughts
yeah ok - a more athletic ruck might be useful. Pitto was jumped all over tonight, but battled away still.
we got out run and gunned early again. need better contested ball winners from the get go. crippa doesn't always start so hot (always finishes hard though) - but we need more mongrel around the ball, especially early.
newnes doesn't do enough and i didn't want to pot him until i'd seen a few games. i'd be giving LO'B a few games to see how he's coming along.
philps went from 5 to 9 touches, and did a couple of nice things. he needs to go back and develop.
a shame fish got sick - we needed his pace and tenacity around the pill early.
jack martin is a good player. a shame he didn't have his kicking boots on tonight.
Levi, H, Eddie & Gov had stinkers. H I can't pot because he simply hasn't had any continuity, but is not in form.
Liam, Liam, Liam. Does so many things right. But NEVER switch across the ground. please.
I agree with someone above about Simmo & Ed being very close to the end. Both wonderful servants, but you can't go on forever.
Willo you can see has been out of the game for a while. he'll get better.
Doc being tagged was an obvious move, and it worked a treat.
I think Jones should have played on King - Weitering couldn't get up high enough to spoil, but probably broke even by the end of the game.
SPS has not had a good year. i dunno about him as a back.
cunners did not back it up.
setterfield played ok, but didn't do enough.
all of the above negative comments due to not going hard enough early enough. switch it on and things can change next week.
We have too many players who avoid contact, shirk tackling and bump when they should tackle, we are the bruise free Blues not the Navy Blues. Being intimidated by non descript hacks like Stkilda is embarrassing...
Agreed
12 players with 0 tackles at half time. Unfortunately desire to win the contest can’t be taught and we just need to keep dropping those that won’t put in.
I didn't watch Q4, but you know what?
Cripps kicks that goal late in the third I reckon we would have won.
That's not to excuse the abject laziness of many, the cheap cough ups and the incredibly bad decision making, but hey.....and the bizarre umpiring.
Teague just needs to drop a few - big h, simmo, McGovern, newnes.
Still think Cripps is injured.
Agreed
12 players with 0 tackles at half time. Unfortunately desire to win the contest can’t be taught and we just need to keep dropping those that won’t put in.
Is that right? Well there's the game right there. Bad, bad attitude.
Is that right? Well there's the game right there. Bad, bad attitude.
Reading their own press the past few weeks 🙄
I didn't watch Q4, but you know what?
Cripps kicks that goal late in the third I reckon we would have won.
That's not to excuse the abject laziness of many, the cheap cough ups and the incredibly bad decision making, but hey.....and the bizarre umpiring.
Teague just needs to drop a few - big h, simmo, McGovern, newnes.
Still think Cripps is injured.
Cripps always struggles vs Steele, we should have started him away from Steele say at FF. But then you need another strong mid to step up and we just dont have that. Cripps came home in junk time ok so I thought he was fit enough, just doesnt like how Steele mans him so close and he seems to have the muscle to match it with Cripps.
Needed a Robbo to offer some decent blocks....new onball lineup required, maybe Stocker, Kennedy in the middle with Martin and Cripps.
It’s very simple again the game was lost in the middle early on. Until Cripps gets genuine support we will remain a bottom team. We are showing every sign again of a bottom 2-3 finish.
Cripps is looking tired and battle scarred and must be sick and tired of the pressure to drag us over the line every game. Very real chance he will be considering heading home have a chance at success in the second half of his career.
And who would blame him. Was very surprised to see him smiling and laughing after the game. Looks like even he is now conditioned to accept losing.
Miles behind where we should be 5 yes 5 years into a rebuild.
Teague got his butt whipped by Ratts.
Spanked, think he too had started to believe his own press...
Needs to STFU, cut out the media drivel and do his job better.
I'm afraid SPS who started out with the club as a bomb is now just a penny bunger.
Also a little concerned with Walsh. His free running curbed. Martin, however, very impressed
If anything the last 16 games has shown we can match it with anyone. So I don't expect them to dish up the crap they dished up last night anymore. Sick of the poor attitude and lack of "want". Don't worry too much about individuals, bring the correct attitude and the rest will look after itself.
If anything the last 16 games has shown we can match it with anyone. So I don't expect them to dish up the crap they dished up last night anymore. Sick of the poor attitude and lack of "want". Don't worry too much about individuals, bring the correct attitude and the rest will look after itself.
I absolutely know they will dish up the crap they did last night again, they have form. Dunno which team you have been watching.
I'm afraid SPS who started out with the club as a bomb is now just a penny bunger.
He’s giving NOTHING. Watched him closely in last q. Ball was in dispute in one of these rugby style rolling mauls, his opponent took 2 quick sideways steps and crouched low intently following the ball. SPS allowed the distance between then to get out to over a metre - actually looked disinterested. The ball popped out, StK player swooped on it and was able to get a clean disposal away starting a chain which resulted in a goal.
Little things like that kill us.
Memo to Teague - he ain’t a defender’s bootlace.
SPS did the job on Tipper last week and while he didn't get much of the ball he defended OK. But I think the experiment is over and he needs to be in the Midfield mix now and taking on responsibility.
If he doesn't give us more by seasons end we should look at trade options for him.
He's picking and choosing.
Needs to choose whether he wants to be an elite level player or he can back to mucking around in Halls Creek.
All the skills in the world but the elite players have that quietly ruthless commitment and determination and I just don't see it.
Our midfield, Cripps aside, is full of flawed players. Big enough but won't attack contest, determination but no size, no pace, poor skills but a great runner, great athlete but dumb footballer, undersized blah blah blah. As Spanner says...twenty plus years of this crap. Surely we can recruit midfielders suited to the modern game, even if they are bloody flukes, surely!?!
I’m trying very hard to be positive and while I know this is bad football we handed them at least 4 goals from direct turnovers.
Willo easy missed mark on wing turned over goal, Jones x2 passes that missed resulted in goals and SPS 20 metre pass in the middle of the ground when we had momentum was rebounded for saints goal.
Plus not many games where majority of our senior players have a quiet game and it’s amazing we weren’t pumped.
And some very soft frees on top. They were the better team and made the most of their chances so they deserved the win but reckon 3 years ago this would have been a 10 goal plus hiding.
Still not good enough but I guess there is some light in this loss if you want to be a glass half full supporter.
SPS did the job on Tipper last week and while he didn't get much of the ball he defended OK. But I think the experiment is over and he needs to be in the Midfield mix now and taking on responsibility.
If he doesn't give us more by seasons end we should look at trade options for him.
I also would love to see more from him but we have much bigger problems then SPS. He has shown enough for me to still think he should make it. The kid is durable definitely has ability and think its harsh to be too critical on him based on last night.
He had a lot of mates having an off night including A graders like Doc, Cripps and Weitering who were all soundly beaten when they game was hot early on.
I have bigger question marks over many of our kids and way too many spots on our list are taking up by blokes that are never going to make it.
If we think SPS is not good enough then if we are honest at least 15 players should be shown the door with him.
If that’s the case we are screwed for another 10 years.
I also would love to see more from him but we have much bigger problems then SPS. He has shown enough for me to still think he should make it. The kid is durable definitely has ability and think its harsh to be too critical on him based on last night.
He had a lot of mates having an off night including A graders like Doc, Cripps and Weitering who were all soundly beaten when they game was hot early on.
I have bigger question marks over many of our kids and way too many spots on our list are taking up by blokes that are never going to make it.
If we think SPS is not good enough then if we are honest at least 15 players should be shown the door with him.
If that’s the case we are screwed for another 10 years.
Given where he was taken in the draft he needs to be impacting games more.
If it takes 15 more changes then let's do it because its not working with the list we have.
We are the least physical unit in the comp and the reliance on Cripps has reached Judd like proportions. Last night showed how bad we are with Cripps well held and how thin our Midfield is and SPS was recruited as Mid and not someone we should be hiding in backline because they prefer less contact.
No Ryder, no Jones, Hannebery only played half the game, and Hill did nothing. Could have been much worse.
Again with the insipid start. Seems a good start from us is the exception, not the rule.
This is a very undisciplined group, with little to no desperation/ruthlessness or initiative.
We look our best when opponents tire a little, because when opponents are fresh and applying deep pressure, we resort to type...surrender - just cannot and do not push back immediately, two fold (let's not pressure the opposition with strong tackles... nuh). We seem to like it 'easy' and nice and offensive. Soft? Certainly between the lugholes.
The midfield coaches obviously took over the reins again for this game.
Mighta worked for Adelaide to have 3 talls up forward but it sure doesn't work for us... H should not have played last night - too top heavy on a fast track against a fast team.
The Juddmeister needs to talk more with Crippa about how to handle tags early and how to be ready from the get-go.
Ratts sure is a terrific tactician and game day coach, gets the best out of his group - has learned well. The TT is still learning but had better get a wriggle on. Should be a fckn huge magnifying glass put on the midfield coaches.
The players seem to love a greater emphasis on attractive, offensive footy and the bruise free element that comes with it.
Our midfield, Cripps aside, is full of flawed players. Big enough but won't attack contest, determination but no size, no pace, poor skills but a great runner, great athlete but dumb footballer, undersized blah blah blah. As Spanner says...twenty plus years of this crap. Surely we can recruit midfielders suited to the modern game, even if they are bloody flukes, surely!?!
Still lack physical size around the ball and we were bullied by hackers like Kent, Clark, even Gresham was pushing our blokes around.
Teams don't fear us, you need presence as well as skill and we don't have it.
We have a list of Von Trapp nice kids and no mongrels who can get the likes of Steele off Cripps, Walsh etc..
One of our blokes couldn't even pick the ball up after a free was given. Steele hovered over the ball blocking access and our player tried a gentle push to move him and couldnt.
A bigger mate should have just grabbed Steele and flung him out the way.. but we don't operate that way.
I hate to say it guys because it's so freaking obvious, but we need a ruthless tough midfielder like Roswell more than any other club. Instead we get.... Crickets.
Our younger midfielders are all so wanting it's scary, and not all are kids, some are well in excess of 50 games. Why aren't they coming on.?
Walsh, Cunningham, Kennedy, Fisher, Dow, SPS, Setterfield, Lachie O'Brien, Kemp (supposedly a midfielder - that's a lie SoS), Gibbons, Philps...that's a generation of drafting right there. Where's the A grade midfield... I just don't see it.
In fairness they did rally and there were some great passages of play that showed we had it and strength but then... dumb Turnover! I am sure that happened 3 times. The across goals ones were just so lazy and the sps killed what would’ve probably been a goal.
McG’s tapping the ball back into play running thru the oppo goal posts: what the hell was he thinking? For someone on lower $ watching that guy do that must be so frustrating. Just dumb.
I’m trying very hard to be positive and while I know this is bad football we handed them at least 4 goals from direct turnovers.
Willo easy missed mark on wing turned over goal, Jones x2 passes that missed resulted in goals and SPS 20 metre pass in the middle of the ground when we had momentum was rebounded for saints goal.
Plus not many games where majority of our senior players have a quiet game and it’s amazing we weren’t pumped.
And some very soft frees on top. They were the better team and made the most of their chances so they deserved the win but reckon 3 years ago this would have been a 10 goal plus hiding.
Still not good enough but I guess there is some light in this loss if you want to be a glass half full supporter.
Simmo did one too early
Look there were some horrible, horrible aspects to the game (H, Gov & Levi, along with the zero tackles stat, along with some terrible turnovers), but I am not as concerned with it as some
Aside from the first Q and a bit - where absolutely EVERYTHING went right for the Saints (all coaching moves came off, all bounces went their way, none of the front running was hurt the other way, EVERY free/50/downfield went their way), we easily won the rest of the game - just couldnt hurt them on the scoreboard. Now, maybe this was just further evidence that we can win when the heat is out of the game - not sure
We do need to sort out what to do when Cripps is taken out - but we also need to have the AFL look into why he is allowed to be mauled at every stoppage.
I couldn’t believe the free kick count was so high but there were a few that weren’t given - the HTH a number of times against the sts yet always given to us, the deliberate attempt at throwing the ball out which of not given for that should’ve been incorrect disposal in front of a boundary umpire, nothing. A few times our guys got barrelled into from behind and only the last time it happened in junk time was it paid.
The Murphy 50m against? I thought that was going our way but no.
Ratts was never going to let this one go - it’ll be interesting to see how the Sts go next game.
Look there were some horrible, horrible aspects to the game (H, Gov & Levi, along with the zero tackles stat, along with some terrible turnovers), but I am not as concerned with it as some
Aside from the first Q and a bit - where absolutely EVERYTHING went right for the Saints (all coaching moves came off, all bounces went their way, none of the front running was hurt the other way, EVERY free/50/downfield went their way), we easily won the rest of the game - just couldnt hurt them on the scoreboard. Now, maybe this was just further evidence that we can win when the heat is out of the game - not sure
We do need to sort out what to do when Cripps is taken out - but we also need to have the AFL look into why he is allowed to be mauled at every stoppage.
Yes absolutely, Steele held him off the ball time and time again.
Curnow was poor last night like many others. Kennedy or SOJ to get a real run in the guts. Both have a bit of nasty in them?
Thought teague was very slow to react last night.
But ultimately give up cheap turnovers as we did so often you won't win many at this level.
I would be dropping Simmo prefer to blood a stocker type.
Big H is woefully out of touch.
Newnes? Surely O'Brien deserves a crack now?
Yes absolutely, Steele held him off the ball time and time again.
Curnow was poor last night like many others. Kennedy or SOJ to get a real run in the guts. Both have a bit of nasty in them?
Thought teague was very slow to react last night.
But ultimately give up cheap turnovers as we did so often you won't win many at this level.
I would be dropping Simmo prefer to blood a stocker type.
Big H is woefully out of touch.
Newnes? Surely O'Brien deserves a crack now?
O'Brien won't add much bite, prefer to try Stocker, Kennedy and even Honey who can survive in a physical environment.
O'brien and Dow really are struggling if players like Philp, Newnes etc are ahead of the in selection.. Not good enough for top ten picks..
I'd like to give a big middle finger to all the clowns bitching about Merrett getting a week for a "love tap". Yes, busted ribs, hardly worth a report. End result is that we lost a very valuable player, who adds a lot of hardness and flexibility and we couldn't cover that. He might not be the classiest player but he gives 100% and that's something that too many on our list don't understand. They haven't committed like that bloke has.
Stocker to defense, SPS into middle, Walsh onto a wing.
O'Brien won't add much bite, prefer to try Stocker, Kennedy and even Honey who can survive in a physical environment.
O'brien and Dow really are struggling if players like Philp, Newnes etc are ahead of the in selection.. Not good enough for top ten picks..
Disagree EB, think O'Brien delivers the ball well, at length, into I50.
Has some ticker too. But kennedy deserves a gig first. BOG two weeks running in the 2s.
It's been a tough year for the kids - Dow has a knee but even if fit, hard to find form with no 2s competition?
My changes for next week?
OUT: Newnes, Simmo, McKay, Philp.
IN: Stocker, Fisher, Kennedy, SOJ.
McGovern stays by default.
Reality is it was a quiet night for Murphy & Curnow, and Simmo didn't have a great first half.
We seem to rely on them and Cripps every week. Where are the other guys to stand up and take some heat and want to win?
Who is standing up to take over when the 3 seniors retire soon? No one looks to be rushing at the gate to be next in line. It's a huge worry.
Disagree EB, think O'Brien delivers the ball well, at length, into I50.
Has some ticker too. But kennedy deserves a gig first. BOG two weeks running in the 2s.
It's been a tough year for the kids - Dow has a knee but even if fit, hard to find form with no 2s competition?
My changes for next week?
OUT: Newnes, Simmo, McKay, Philp.
IN: Stocker, Fisher, Kennedy, SOJ.
McGovern stays by default.
Fly,I know its harsh but Obrien doesnt stick tackles, doesnt always attack the ball properly and his kicking is over rated as half of them end up in the crowd.
If a runt like Philp is getting a game ahead of Obrien it doesnt say much for the latter....
I like your ins but would drop McGovern and give Harry another chance.
Disagree EB, think O'Brien delivers the ball well, at length, into I50.
Has some ticker too. But kennedy deserves a gig first. BOG two weeks running in the 2s.
It's been a tough year for the kids - Dow has a knee but even if fit, hard to find form with no 2s competition?
My changes for next week?
OUT: Newnes, Simmo, McKay, Philp.
IN: Stocker, Fisher, Kennedy, SOJ.
McGovern stays by default.
Simo not getting dropped anytime soon.
Kennedy , SOJ and Cripps cannot all play together = SLOW
Stocker would want to become a player as I think supporters high hopes far outweigh his
injury prone history and limited output to date.
McGovern dosnt seem to run to the right spots. But our disposal into forward 50 couldn't be any worse.
We just bomb it on their heads and hope the talls can take a mark. It doesn't get delivered.
Our leaders didnt lay a tackle in the first half. Not a single tackle.
I absolutely know they will dish up the crap they did last night again, they have form. Dunno which team you have been watching.
I'm sick of pissing 4 points down the drain through not being switched on. We've shown we can match it with any team but we just waste it too often. No point giving away 6 goals starts then whittling down to bugger all and losing, or, like last night, cut back half the margin. We showed against Geelong what we can do when we turn up to play. For 3 qtrs we smashed them on their own dog patch with sublime football. That's the standard and I expect it kept to. This has less to do with ability and more to do with a piss poor attitude. We're 8-8 under Teague, which we would've accepted at the time of his appointment, but $hit, we should've won quite a few more. We have just simply pissed so many games down the drain and has to stop.
Fly,I know its harsh but Obrien doesnt stick tackles, doesnt always attack the ball properly and his kicking is over rated as half of them end up in the crowd.
If a runt like Philp is getting a game ahead of Obrien it doesnt say much for the latter....
I like your ins but would drop McGovern and give Harry another chance.
Different roles EB and Fisher will come in for Philp.
Tackles?
12 players had zero up to half time.
Full game?
Samo 1
Plow 1
Tommy W 1
Doc 0
Newnes 0
Simmo 0
Walsh 0
Weiters 0
Hard to measure the metal of forwards or defenders this week because our ball use was a bad as it's ever been in the last 5 years. Soft turnover after soft turnover.
It looks to me like 3 close games in a row removed all the run out of our guys, they had heavy legs from the first bounce and it was obvious. Cripps, Pittonet, Levi, Jones, Plowman looked like they were running on sloppy beach sand. Lots of effort for very little motion.
In the last three weeks the Aints had two pretty soft results and were basically spectators in the other game. They had their version of our last night two weeks ago against the Filth.
I realise a lot of people have been Pittonet boosters, but in reality the game versus Gawn and last night are the true comparison to front line AFL rucks. Pittonet's aggression helps him star against B-Graders, but he was basically bullied last night by a guy who's on trajectory to be one of the AFL's best.
On last night, how the feck can King just throw Weitering to the ground 2 or 3 times, once not even facing the football?
Hard to measure the metal of forwards or defenders this week because our ball use was a bad as it's ever been in the last 5 years. Soft turnover after soft turnover.
It looks to me like 3 close games in a row removed all the run out of our guys, they had heavy legs from the first bounce and it was obvious. Cripps, Pittonet, Levi, Jones, Plowman looked like they were running on sloppy beach sand. Lots of effort for very little motion.
In the last three weeks the Aints had two pretty soft results and were basically spectators in the other game. They had their version of our last night two weeks ago against the Filth.
I realise a lot of people have been Pittonet boosters, but in reality the game versus Gawn and last night are the true comparison to front line AFL rucks. Pittonet's aggression helps him star against B-Graders, but he was basically bullied last night by a guy who's on trajectory to be one of the AFL's best.
On last night, how the feck can King just throw Weitering to the ground 2 or 3 times, once not even facing the football?
Make some good points
Still lack physical size around the ball and we were bullied by hackers like Kent, Clark, even Gresham was pushing our blokes around.
Teams don't fear us, you need presence as well as skill and we don't have it.
We have a list of Von Trapp nice kids and no mongrels who can get the likes of Steele off Cripps, Walsh etc..
In the old days, Carrazzo would do this, he'd let the tagger/harasser know in no uncertain terms to F-Off.
Hard to measure the metal of forwards or defenders this week because our ball use was a bad as it's ever been in the last 5 years. Soft turnover after soft turnover.
It looks to me like 3 close games in a row removed all the run out of our guys, they had heavy legs from the first bounce and it was obvious. Cripps, Pittonet, Levi, Jones, Plowman looked like they were running on sloppy beach sand. Lots of effort for very little motion.
In the last three weeks the Aints had two pretty soft results and were basically spectators in the other game. They had their version of our last night two weeks ago against the Filth.
I realise a lot of people have been Pittonet boosters, but in reality the game versus Gawn and last night are the true comparison to front line AFL rucks. Pittonet's aggression helps him star against B-Graders, but he was basically bullied last night by a guy who's on trajectory to be one of the AFL's best.
On last night, how the feck can King just throw Weitering to the ground 2 or 3 times, once not even facing the football?
So everyone had heavy legs but Pittonet didn't?
Like Weiters getting easily outmarked by King, it was obvious Pittonet was 'tired'.....remember the guy has played about 5 or 6 games at this level....
Not sure why you single him out, he was off like many yet still managed 22 hit outs (same as Marshall).
Casboult can also ruck much better - he was out of sorts last night - some of the marks he missed.....crazy.
Steele holding Cripps off the ball blatantly must be addressed by the Club.
There was lots of infringing last night.
Only Carlton were pulled up for most of it. They gave us Philps goal in the same way they gave st. Kilda a 4 or 5 goal headstart.
In fairness they did rally and there were some great passages of play that showed we had it and strength but then... dumb Turnover! I am sure that happened 3 times. The across goals ones were just so lazy and the sps killed what would’ve probably been a goal.
McG’s tapping the ball back into play running thru the oppo goal posts: what the hell was he thinking? For someone on lower $ watching that guy do that must be so frustrating. Just dumb.
Dumb 50s, Dumb switches of play to 2 on 1s. These just dont happen every know and then, they happen all too often. People criticize the umps all the time, but was I the only one that noticed the repeat offended for HTB was Curnow? I counted at least 3 where he made no attempt what so ever to dispose of the ball, in a week were its been discussed ad nauseam and you know the umps are gonna be red hot on it. How many games has he played?
I know it's a screwed up season but our recruiting over the last few years (and the reasons behind them) should prompt a serious review and an all out attack on securing at least two big names. Kreuzer, Murphy and Simpson must go by virtue of form if not age. They're not alone by any means.
We can't continue "financing" incompetence. At any level.
I'm sick of pissing 4 points down the drain through not being switched on. We've shown we can match it with any team but we just waste it too often. No point giving away 6 goals starts then whittling down to bugger all and losing, or, like last night, cut back half the margin. We showed against Geelong what we can do when we turn up to play. For 3 qtrs we smashed them on their own dog patch with sublime football. That's the standard and I expect it kept to. This has less to do with ability and more to do with a piss poor attitude. We're 8-8 under Teague, which we would've accepted at the time of his appointment, but $hit, we should've won quite a few more. We have just simply pissed so many games down the drain and has to stop.
120% agree with you, what I am saying is that it wont stop anytime soon, at least I cant see it. They have form.
So everyone had heavy legs but Pittonet didn't?
Like Weiters getting easily outmarked by King, it was obvious Pittonet was 'tired'.....remember the guy has played about 5 or 6 games at this level....
Not sure why you single him out, he was off like many yet still managed 22 hit outs (same as Marshall).
Casboult can also ruck much better - he was out of sorts last night - some of the marks he missed.....crazy.
Steele holding Cripps off the ball blatantly must be addressed by the Club.
Pitto was nowhere near our worst, dont undestand some of the criticism. Wasnt slaughtered by Marshall as some are saying.
Pitto had the most tackles on the ground for us.
How damning is that stat !!
So everyone had heavy legs but Pittonet didn't?
Like Weiters getting easily outmarked by King, it was obvious Pittonet was 'tired'.....remember the guy has played about 5 or 6 games at this level....
Not sure why you single him out, he was off like many yet still managed 22 hit outs (same as Marshall).
Casboult can also ruck much better - he was out of sorts last night - some of the marks he missed.....crazy.
Weitering had problems because King wasn't required by the umpire to obey the rules, and because our lack of pressure up the field on the Aints ball-carrier left him one out at a disadvantage.
Pittonet and Casboult were beaten by superior ruckmen at the coalface with or without the tired legs, no external errors or excuses about a lack of team pressure or ball use are applicable. They are the first contest, and nobody is going to claim they broke even despite what the stats say. They were competitive, at least after 1/4 time, but that is far away from breaking even or winning.
You cannot claim you were in the contest if you run 2nd in a marathon a kilometre behind the winner!
Pittonet was reasonable because he competed...
re: Cripps and Steele....our man needs to make a statement, he walked to the middle saw Steele and their was resignation in his eyes
that it was going to be tough night and wasnt proactive enough.
Steele started the push and shove stuff and Cripps didnt react hard enough, one thing I have noticed with Bontempelli is that he wont put up with the holding/ manhandling anymore and will fight back rather than relying on the umpires.
I watched him take a great mark running back with the flight of the ball and his tagger didnt want a bar of it as the Bont crashed into him and kept his footing. Cripps is too much the gentleman and its going to have to change, even softies like Cotchin respond now and as much as I hate J.Selwood he goes hard back at players who try and bully him.
Cripps needs to set the example or we can look forward to him, Docherty and Walsh being bullied every week.
Dumb 50s, Dumb switches of play to 2 on 1s. These just dont happen every know and then, they happen all too often. People criticize the umps all the time, but was I the only one that noticed the repeat offended for HTB was Curnow? I counted at least 3 where he made no attempt what so ever to dispose of the ball, in a week were its been discussed ad nauseam and you know the umps are gonna be red hot on it. How many games has he played?
Good point! I said to my partner I think when Setters was done, ffs, Clarkson complained about the lack of the call, yet you're not even pretending to get rid of it!
However what pisses me off even more is that they had incorrect disposal by at least 10 times I can recall off the top of my head, that were play on!
I know it's a screwed up season but our recruiting over the last few years (and the reasons behind them) should prompt a serious review and an all out attack on securing at least two big names. Kreuzer, Murphy and Simpson must go by virtue of form if not age. They're not alone by any means.
We can't continue "financing" incompetence. At any level.
Enjoy three more years of financing McGovern @ 800k a season...if he plays I'd have him down back and in the action so he is forced to compete. Threw one limp hand out in a ball winning attempt/semi tackle last night that a new born lamb could walk through and should have been dragged. Teague has to get tougher on players who wont commit and drag/drop them and make it clear you dont pick and choose when you go under his leadership.
The kid Long from Stkilda was committed to attacking the ball and while he doesnt have much profile or talent you can see he is a
player who will play a lot of footy under Ratten because he gives effort.
However what pisses me off even more is that they had incorrect disposal by at least 10 times I can recall off the top of my head, that were play on!
Yes the throws.
The one that pissed me off was Geary burying his elbow in the backs of a Carlton players head, he did it multiple times and it is always the elbow the umpire cannot see. A coach like Sheedy says that is good football, let's teach all the kids!
Agree with almost everything that has been said
I’d be making a serious statement that enough is enough and Carlton won’t stand for ineptitude
I’d be dropping Murphy (effort), Plowman (effort/skill), Newnes (skill), Philp (not ready)
I’d play Casboult at CHB, Weitering FB
Jones on the wing or centre to provide big body support (and away from defence) to Cripps
McKay CHF, McGovern FF and Silvagni HFF.
Ins Silvagni, Honey (tough), Fisher, LOB.
I refuse to (as I always try to) partake discussion around umpiring, other than to say Carlton are the best at giving away stupid frees and 50s. There was absolutely no need to dump players after they had disposed of the ball, its poor and undisciplined. Its a weak as piss to bring it up IMO, it covers up Carlton's shortfalls. And can I say, Carlton supporters are the worst at it. I got a mate of mine who text me during games and ALWAYS "the umpires this, the umpires that", its BS AFAIC! Get our crap together Carlton and umpiring (good or bad) goes away. I heard nothing (or at least SFA) on umpiring after the Geel and Cheats games (ie W's), it seems to get highlighted most when we lose.
Agree with almost everything that has been said
I’d be making a serious statement that enough is enough and Carlton won’t stand for ineptitude
I’d be dropping Murphy (effort), Plowman (effort/skill), Newnes (skill), Philp (not ready)
I’d play Casboult at CHB, Weitering FB
Jones on the wing or centre to provide big body support (and away from defence) to Cripps
McKay CHF, McGovern FF and Silvagni HFF.
Ins Silvagni, Honey (tough), Fisher, LOB.
As painful as it may sound, I was thinking last night it may be time to move Jones fwd again. At least he attacks the contest these days. I'd drop Mackay in a heartbeat, he was pathetic last night.
I refuse to (as I always try to) partake discussion around umpiring, other than to say Carlton are the best at giving away stupid frees and 50s. There was absolutely no need to dump players after they had disposed of the ball, its poor and undisciplined. Its a weak as piss to bring it up IMO, it covers up Carlton's shortfalls. And can I say, Carlton supporters are the worst at it. I got a mate of mine who text me during games and ALWAYS "the umpires this, the umpires that", its BS AFAIC! Get our crap together Carlton and umpiring (good or bad) goes away. I heard nothing (or at least SFA) on umpiring after the Geel and Cheats games (ie W's), it seems to get highlighted most when we lose.
Agree 100%.
I refuse to (as I always try to) partake discussion around umpiring, other than to say Carlton are the best at giving away stupid frees and 50s. There was absolutely no need to dump players after they had disposed of the ball, its poor and undisciplined. Its a weak as piss to bring it up IMO, it covers up Carlton's shortfalls. And can I say, Carlton supporters are the worst at it. I got a mate of mine who text me during games and ALWAYS "the umpires this, the umpires that", its BS AFAIC! Get our crap together Carlton and umpiring (good or bad) goes away. I heard nothing (or at least SFA) on umpiring after the Geel and Cheats games (ie W's), it seems to get highlighted most when we lose.
Yep blaming the umps is an easy out for lack of effort, when you play and attack the ball properly most times the umpiring looks after itself. The scoreboard flattered us and the umpiring had nothing to do with the result.
As painful as it may sound, I was thinking last night it may be time to move Jones fwd again. At least he attacks the contest these days. I'd drop Mackay in a heartbeat, he was pathetic last night.
Funnily enough I was thinking exactly the same thing myself last night when he took a good mark up the field a bit.
He'd provide a contest that we now have the small forwards to exploit and his pack marking is solid.
Of course the problem would be that we really don't have anyone to take his place down back. :(
100% emphatic NO to moving Jones forward. Been there done that no good.
Personally I'd ruck him or run him on the wing and tell him to smash bodies. He's good at "chaos" play.
If our midfield is so crap, how did we dominate over Danger, Selwood, Ablett, Duncan, Miers etc???
If our midfield is so crap, how did we dominate over Danger, Selwood, Ablett, Duncan, Miers etc???
I'm not sure that's correct. We won the Cats game in the air. Our aerial game was brilliant that day. Fantastic work rate and skill by ball carrier and receiver - out marked them comprehensively. If you look at ground ball, I think it was in their favour - they won the clearances, I50's, tackles, scoring shots etc.
If our midfield is so crap, how did we dominate over Danger, Selwood, Ablett, Duncan, Miers etc???
They had a crape soft ruck in Stanley who was well beat by Pittonet and played the likes of Narkle on Cripps and did zero homework on our players and played with total arrogance. Cripps and Docherty were BOG wallpapering the cracks again, check out the stats of our other mids that night...Martin excepted. Geelong were crap but we fell in thanks to Eddie laying that tackle in the middle of the ground and Ablett missing an easy goal.
Ratten had the kryptonite for Cripps with Steele, was smart enough to cover Docherty too and the rest of the Von Trapp kids couldnt handle it apart from Martin.
Marshall was always going to be tough work for Pittonet given his athletic ability and Ratten didnt really rest him either and give us a break..
They had a crape soft ruck in Stanley ..................
Not one to mince words EB1! :o
If our midfield is so crap, how did we dominate over Danger, Selwood, Ablett, Duncan, Miers etc???
Lets be brutally honest and call a vanga a vanga as Ol Mate PaulyP would say, the Geelong game was an aberration as far as where Carlton's at is concerned. Its good to be positive and optimistic but the Melb and StK performances wipe any positives from my mind. I'm am sick to death of "we showed we can compete with the best".
Not one to mince words EB1! :o
Just calling it like is LP.....Stanley was the ideal specimen for Pittonet to bully, the raw Esava Ratugolea provided more competition. Conversely Marshall is an athlete but can also handle the body on body stuff too.
Yep blaming the umps is an easy out for lack of effort, when you play and attack the ball properly most times the umpiring looks after itself. The scoreboard flattered us and the umpiring had nothing to do with the result.
Except that virtually the first play of the game was McGOvern copping 2 hands in the back, in the square - nothing. Then 2 of StKIlda's first 3 goals from dubious frees and/or 50s. Then, late in the 3rd, as we were pushing to get back into it, a couple of tide-turning frees that killed all our momentum.
Whether they were correct or not - the decisions (or lack of) made a huge difference in the game
Just calling it like is LP.....Stanley was the ideal specimen for Pittonet to bully, the raw Esava Ratugolea provided more competition. Conversely Marshall is an athlete but can also handle the body on body stuff too.
Careful, you'll be labelled a Pittonet hater!
Except that virtually the first play of the game was McGOvern copping 2 hands in the back, in the square - nothing. Then 2 of StKIlda's first 3 goals from dubious frees and/or 50s. Then, late in the 3rd, as we were pushing to get back into it, a couple of tide-turning frees that killed all our momentum.
Whether they were correct or not - the decisions (or lack of) made a huge difference in the game
Rubbish, look at it again, there was no push in the back, Gov was milking it looking for a free and looked farken stupid if you ask me. I know this because I yelled the same as you then when I saw the reply from the different angle, it was clear. He's better off focusing on getting a bloody kick through hard work and nouse. There is not such thing as tide turning free kick, its just BS made up by supporters of the losing team. Do you hear the winning team supporters say "gee those decisions really turned the tide in our favour". I'll give you a clue, the answer starts with N and ends in O.
I could cop last night's result if we had a list sprinkled with a few b graders and the rest c and d graders who gave their all every week but whose lack of ability caused us to be beaten by better sides week in week out.
What I can't cop is a side with so many top picks that displays mental and/or physical fragility week in week out. We never know who is going to turn up at any given match.
We have not had one match where the majority of players have given their best for the whole game.
It's like Groundhog Day. Go back to match review threads of six years or more, before the rebuild, and the complaints then were the same as now.
We supporters deserve better. Carlton this century reminds me of Melbourne in the last 45 years of last century:
promised the Pot of Gold at the end of the Rainbow but always just out of reach.
Until we recruit a few players in the mid-field such as Mitch Robinson who will play with aggression all day and not take a backward step, we will continue to be pushed around and anchored to the bottom of the ladder.
I could cop last night's result if we had a list sprinkled with a few b graders and the rest c and d graders who gave their all every week but whose lack of ability caused us to be beaten by better sides week in week out.
What I can't cop is a side with so many top picks that displays mental and/or physical fragility week in week out. We never know who is going to turn up at any given match.
We have not had one match where the majority of players have given their best for the whole game.
It's like Groundhog Day. Go back to match review threads of six years or more, before the rebuild, and the complaints then were the same as now.
We supporters deserve better. Carlton this century reminds me of Melbourne in the last 45 years of last century:
promised the Pot of Gold at the end of the Rainbow but always just out of reach.
Until we recruit a few players in the mid-field such as Mitch Robinson who will play with aggression all day and not take a backward step, we will continue to be pushed around and anchored to the bottom of the ladder.
Agree,
Even after last weeks game where they were saying this will add to their belief that they can - just get the fck in with it - why can’t we have ruthless hard arsed competitors?
Teams don't fear us, you need presence as well as skill and we don't have it.
We have a list of Von Trapp nice kids and no mongrels...
In cricketing terms... EB1 dances down the pitch and belts the cherry back over the bowler's head and into row 17 of the grandstand on the full.
Lets be brutally honest and call a vanga a vanga as Ol Mate PaulyP would say, the Geelong game was an aberration as far as where Carlton's at is concerned. Its good to be positive and optimistic but the Melb and StK performances wipe any positives from my mind. I'm am sick to death of "we showed we can compete with the best".
The unpalatable truth. I'm reluctant to admit it but I wonder if the Pussycats disrespected us by playing a severely underdone Steven which may have just been the difference. Also reluctant to admit that we could be quite easily 0-5... not a win for some time with genuine authority, when was our last convincing victory by a handsome margin against a half decent opponent in good form?
Ps What the hell is a vanga?
The unpalatable truth. I'm reluctant to admit it but I wonder if the Pussycats disrespected us by playing a severely underdone Steven which may have just been the difference. Also reluctant to admit that we could be quite easily 0-5... not a win for some time with genuine authority, when was our last convincing victory by a handsome margin against a half decent opponent in good form?
Ps What the hell is a vanga?
Other way for me. There are no aberrations, Geelong game just shows you have the ability as does 8-8 in the last 16 games, which should've been alot better with a better attitude. Simply means the side can play with the right application. The issue is we don't come to play each week and that is 80% of our issues. We should've had 11 wins from those 16 games with we turned up in the first qtr. Fact is we have pissed 8 points down the drain this year by not being switched on. Essentially, should be in the 8 with the right work rate but we're not.
...........................
Ps What the hell is a vanga?
Vanga is the italian word for spade, as in let's call a spade a spade.
................................not a win for some time with genuine authority, when was our last convincing victory by a handsome margin against a half decent opponent in good form?.............................
R5 2019.
Vanga is the italian word for spade, as in let's call a spade a spade.
I had to look twice at the word as my mind went elsewhere...lol.
R5 2019.
Good example. Just struggling to recall who the senior coach was for that game... 🤔 😉
Good example. Just struggling to recall who the senior coach was for that game... 🤔 😉
[/quote]Reckon a 15pts win over the side that finished 2nd at the end of the H & A wasn't a bad one either.
Forgetting the last qtr, we hadn't played 3 qtrs of football like that in years down at Geelong.
I said a couple of weeks ago that I thought didn't no how to win, and didn't turn up to win. We keep falling behind by six, seven, eight goals, and then we start playing. The good thing about last night was that in previous seasons we would have lost by five to ten goals. The fact that we do have a go is good. But you have to have a go for four quarters not when you pick and chose to do it. I was surprised how good St.Kilda was in the first quarter and they really exposed our lack of pace in the mid-field. I thought Philp was good for his second game last night, and we really need Fisher, Dow and O'Brien in to give us some more run. Kennedy is another who seems to be running better across the ground this year.
It is easy to criticise the back line, but when you are getting beaten in the middle, and your disposal coming out of the back is bad, and the entries into the forward line are so poor that it allows you to slingshot all the way down the ground, you can see how some of the goals came form our poor play rather than their good.
I thought our players, back and forward had trouble judging the ball under the lights in the first half. This led to a number of marks which were virtually uncontested. When we closed them down and made the game a contest, we really had them on the ropes, but once again we didn't make the most of the opportunities. This leads me back to my original premise that I am not sure the Club really wants to win. They say they do, but I am not sure they really mean it. As I say, winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose.
We had Silvagni, Dow Marchbank, Kreuzer, Newman, Fisher and Curnow out, as well as Kennedy, O'Brien and TDK missing. I am not sure we have worked out who are our best 22 and which group is the best 22. This is something we will need to work out if we are to progress.
I said a couple of weeks ago that I thought didn't no how to win, and didn't turn up to win. We keep falling behind by six, seven, eight goals, and then we start playing. The good thing about last night was that in previous seasons we would have lost by five to ten goals. The fact that we do have a go is good. But you have to have a go for four quarters not when you pick and chose to do it. I was surprised how good St.Kilda was in the first quarter and they really exposed our lack of pace in the mid-field. I thought Philp was good for his second game last night, and we really need Fisher, Dow and O'Brien in to give us some more run. Kennedy is another who seems to be running better across the ground this year.
It is easy to criticise the back line, but when you are getting beaten in the middle, and your disposal coming out of the back is bad, and the entries into the forward line are so poor that it allows you to slingshot all the way down the ground, you can see how some of the goals came form our poor play rather than their good.
I thought our players, back and forward had trouble judging the ball under the lights in the first half. This led to a number of marks which were virtually uncontested. When we closed them down and made the game a contest, we really had them on the ropes, but once again we didn't make the most of the opportunities. This leads me back to my original premise that I am not sure the Club really wants to win. They say they do, but I am not sure they really mean it. As I say, winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose.
We had Silvagni, Dow Marchbank, Kreuzer, Newman, Fisher and Curnow out, as well as Kennedy, O'Brien and TDK missing. I am not sure we have worked out who are our best 22 and which group is the best 22. This is something we will need to work out if we are to progress.
Was highlighted during the in game, its the 12th time in Teague's 16 games that we have given up a 30 pt swing. Thats very concerning for mine.
Very quiet on this site after a loss.
Very quiet on this site after a loss.
Its all been said...in fact most of us revisit the same topics and outcomes each year and little changes.
I guess we can swap a few deckchairs at selection this week and hope we dodge another iceberg....
nothing has changed we are still slow with ball movement/ bodies soft ,but the band aid by lucky 1pt win takes pressure off
Same old same old - soft gentle kicks from the backline across the ground that miss their targets or are easy to contest. Backline appearing disorganised because the ball comes in so often, quickly and easily. Dumb bombs from defense into attack where we have a one on three. Miss easy shots for a goal, particularly when some momentum is starting to build our way to ensure we don't get too confident and get on a roll.
Maybe it is part of the induction into Carlton that this is what is required at the club!
Same old same old - soft gentle kicks from the backline across the ground that miss their targets or are easy to contest. Backline appearing disorganised because the ball comes in so often, quickly and easily. Dumb bombs from defense into attack where we have a one on three. Miss easy shots for a goal, particularly when some momentum is starting to build our way to ensure we don't get too confident and get on a roll.
Maybe it is part of the induction into Carlton that this is what is required at the club!
Perfect, you left out dumb free kicks but otherwise summarised Carlton FC to a tee.
Very quiet on this site after a loss.
Mental fatigue. It's caused when pre-season optimism collides with reality
Mental fatigue. It's caused when pre-season optimism collides with reality
I hear ya brother.
Sick of watching and commenting on this crap. Why were so many players brushed off the ball by Saints? Intent? Core Strength? Our players are 3 years deep with "the best in the business". So for me it MUST be intent. I didn't see them fall over themselves.
Weitering early looked like a first year player - drinking the bathwater I hope not.
SPS needs to be dropped or play mid fwd. Problem is can't kick 40 metres for a set shot goal. Other than Stocker unsure who else they bring in.
Why wasn't McGovern played back, Try something ffs. He has played back in Adelaide. 3 tall fwd line wasn't working why persist? How do you get a leading option if your are coming through the guts and there are 3 fanning out? And when there is a lead up option how many times do we kick over the fwd head! Saints hit their targets - they aren't that much better than us.....are they?
If you are going to try Philp play Honey. Rather see 3rd tall be Kennedy. Does Sav Rocca still have a job as kicking coach? My God kicking for goal is a shambles. H has THE worst ball drop in the league. Yet we rush him back? Typical Carlton no matter who is coach or selector - see Kruzer over his career....
Maybe try De Koning, Kennedy, Stocker, Honey. Why not. Not like we are winning the flag. Try. Experiment. All the reasons the coach was employed. Hope he isn't getting fiddled with like a horse our Teaguey????
We rocketed up the ladder from 12th to 11th today.
This mean 11 more losses and we'll be on top?...haha.
Sick of watching and commenting on this crap. Why were so many players brushed off the ball by Saints? Intent? Core Strength? Our players are 3 years deep with "the best in the business". So for me it MUST be intent. I didn't see them fall over themselves.
Weitering early looked like a first year player - drinking the bathwater I hope not.
SPS needs to be dropped or play mid fwd. Problem is can't kick 40 metres for a set shot goal. Other than Stocker unsure who else they bring in.
Why wasn't McGovern played back, Try something ffs. He has played back in Adelaide. 3 tall fwd line wasn't working why persist? How do you get a leading option if your are coming through the guts and there are 3 fanning out? And when there is a lead up option how many times do we kick over the fwd head! Saints hit their targets - they aren't that much better than us.....are they?
If you are going to try Philp play Honey. Rather see 3rd tall be Kennedy. Does Sav Rocca still have a job as kicking coach? My God kicking for goal is a shambles. H has THE worst ball drop in the league. Yet we rush him back? Typical Carlton no matter who is coach or selector - see Kruzer over his career....
Maybe try De Koning, Kennedy, Stocker, Honey. Why not. Not like we are winning the flag. Try. Experiment. All the reasons the coach was employed. Hope he isn't getting fiddled with like a horse our Teaguey????
That would resemble Plan B, We Are Carlton, We Dont Do Plan B.
Sick of watching and commenting on this crap. Why were so many players brushed off the ball by Saints? Intent? Core Strength? Our players are 3 years deep with "the best in the business". So for me it MUST be intent. I didn't see them fall over themselves.
Weitering early looked like a first year player - drinking the bathwater I hope not.
SPS needs to be dropped or play mid fwd. Problem is can't kick 40 metres for a set shot goal. Other than Stocker unsure who else they bring in.
Why wasn't McGovern played back, Try something ffs. He has played back in Adelaide. 3 tall fwd line wasn't working why persist? How do you get a leading option if your are coming through the guts and there are 3 fanning out? And when there is a lead up option how many times do we kick over the fwd head! Saints hit their targets - they aren't that much better than us.....are they?
If you are going to try Philp play Honey. Rather see 3rd tall be Kennedy. Does Sav Rocca still have a job as kicking coach? My God kicking for goal is a shambles. H has THE worst ball drop in the league. Yet we rush him back? Typical Carlton no matter who is coach or selector - see Kruzer over his career....
Maybe try De Koning, Kennedy, Stocker, Honey. Why not. Not like we are winning the flag. Try. Experiment. All the reasons the coach was employed. Hope he isn't getting fiddled with like a horse our Teaguey????
Good stuff, Hitman.
Those four cats you mention, TDK, Kennedy, Stocker & Honey all have one thing in common... bit of mongrel, intensity/ferocity. And we like that and are desperate for it. As unpopular as this may be to say, we have no real ferocious mid of size with ability. Ed is tight and strong and won't shirk the issue and that's our closest - and his ability is limited. Gibbo has talent and some ferocity but is a runt. Crippa oozes talent but starts slowly and is something of a gentle giant. Murphy is skillful but nice and has trouble laying a tackle that hurts. Cuningham is talent+ but unreliable/inconsistent, Setters is busy trying to establish himself and seems to also be nice...
SPS has done a v good job stopping certain blokes but are we robbing Peter to pay Paul - pity Polson didn't work out in that regard? I'd prefer to see SPS as an outside mid but it's hard to find blokes who can lock down dangerous small forwards.
McGovern is a quandary. He's not likely to be dropped being The TT's boy who he got from the Crows. But he's another cameo kid like Cuningham (who returned to type against the Aints). We cannot afford such luxuries - players who pick and choose, fade in and out. He did look better when H wasn't there last week, perhaps when he has more responsibility he responds. His skill around goal is important. Perhaps Levi to the backline where he really did exceptionally well and Jones to a wing - he's quick and difficult to match up on. So two talls (H and McG) and a SOJ or Kennedy as the other taller type.
I honestly wonder where we would be this season without Martin (who is ferocious at the contest and belies his wiry frame)... zip and 5? Very likely. We are still very dependent on individual brilliance/talent... against the cheats.com.au it was Murphy's last qtr talent that set up so much and was critical to our win. Next week we're up against a side that plays as a team. Better get some ferocity pills to our hub asap.
My biggest disappointment is SPS. He was recruited with a dynamic and tough reputation combined with great skills. Remember the kid from Halls Creek? To me he seems lackadaisical bordering on slapdash and has little relish for the physical contest or the tackle. Needs a spell on the coal face with the message "shape up or ship out".
My biggest disappointment is SPS. He was recruited with a dynamic and tough reputation combined with great skills. Remember the kid from Halls Creek? To me he seems lackadaisical bordering on slapdash and has little relish for the physical contest or the tackle. Needs a spell on the coal face with the message "shape up or ship out".
Agree Cookie, very frustrating player, has the skills but never impacts enough, will tease you with a nice piece of play then goes unsighted. Not physical but thats ok if you get the ball 30 times a game like a Craig Bradley and break up the opposition with line running and precision delivery but SPS just picks and chooses when he gets involved.
I'd be fielding offers at seasons end if he doesnt pick up the intensity, Cuningham is another frustrating player in the same boat IMO, you get teased with the BOG a week ago then it will be another 6 weeks before he impacts again.
Add Harry to that list too although I will cut him some injury slack and lack of continuity of games but when he lays back on some of those lazy kicks when we need a goal drives me nuts..kicks the boundary hard shot then misses the 30m gimme goal..FFS concentrate and look like its important to you..
Agree Cookie, very frustrating player, has the skills but never impacts enough, will tease you with a nice piece of play then goes unsighted. Not physical but thats ok if you get the ball 30 times a game like a Craig Bradley and break up the opposition with line running and precision delivery but SPS just picks and chooses when he gets involved.
I'd be fielding offers at seasons end if he doesnt pick up the intensity, Cuningham is another frustrating player in the same boat IMO, you get teased with the BOG a week ago then it will be another 6 weeks before he impacts again.
Add Harry to that list too although I will cut him some injury slack and lack of continuity of games but when he lays back on some of those lazy kicks when we need a goal drives me nuts..kicks the boundary hard shot then misses the 30m gimme goal..FFS concentrate and look like its important to you..
No argument from me. Problem is, no accountability. There are no consequences for lame efforts.
Yet we continue recycling the same rubbish as though it's a reward for no effort or effect in games that clearly warranted their demotion in the first place ... or the second .. or the third.
I guess I'm in a dirty mood and as I'll NEVER give up on Carlton, I expect more after 25 years stuck in the mud and 60 in support, I reckon I'm entitled to think as I do.
No argument from me. Problem is, no accountability. There are no consequences for lame efforts.
They need dropping its that simple, same with McGovern....Moore might have less talent but is more of an effort player and I'd give him a crack and drop the Guv. Stocker, Kennedy, Jack and even Obrien back in, prefer a team of effort players than pretenders who pick and choose when its time to get a kick or make a tackle.
The other player who might need a spell is Plowman, has become a liability and one on ones with him and anyone of talent worry me...
Yet we continue recycling the same rubbish as though it's a reward for no effort or effect in games that clearly warranted their demotion in the first place ... or the second .. or the third.
That's a very big part of our problem. It's harder to be left out of the side than it is to get in.
Is it because the selectors have no option? Are they faced with a further group of players who will never make it in the firsts? If so, what an indictment on our selectors .
Harry is a perfect example of our problem. He has all the physical attributes to succeed and when recruited great things were held for his future. He has been around long enough and is old enough to have a successful future, yet time and again all I see is a player who is thick between the ears and getting games when instead he needs a kick up the proverbial.
The same attitude is held by Cunningham, and others - whether you do well or not, you'll be selected next week.
This attitude seems to
I guess I'm in a dirty mood and as I'll NEVER give up on Carlton, I expect more after 25 years stuck in the mud and 60 in support, I think I'm entitled to think as I do.
Sorry. I'm not sure how my reply got caught up in the quote
They need dropping its that simple, same with McGovern....Moore might have less talent but is more of an effort player and I'd give him a crack and drop the Guv. Stocker, Kennedy, Jack and even Obrien back in, prefer a team of effort players than pretenders who pick and choose when its time to get a kick or make a tackle.
The other player who might need a spell is Plowman, has become a liability and one on ones with him and anyone of talent worry me...
Again, you and I are on the same page. Plowman has struggled because oppo have worked out he s h i t s himself when he is isolated, they go all out to isolate and play through this man. As stated earlier, Teague wont drop the ones that need a spell, he prefers instead to back them in. The result of this is the inconsistency we see week in week out.
I'm not overly fussed by the result, Ratten is a good coach very poorly treated by our club, he has introduced a very new game style to the Aints that opposition coaches have yet to be exposed to, and so it is yet to be deconstructed.
By the same token, it was disappointing that we couldn't play our game our way, we were reactive all night.
I have to question the validity of the three talls, we looked better with McKay out, the KPFs looked better organised perhaps because they were less hesitant and not getting in each others way! But our KPFs didn't really make much difference, we were smashed in the middle and in our own D50. It doesn't matter how good your defenders are, when the ball enters and re-enters with such freedom and frequency any defender will struggle.
I'm not overly fussed by the result, Ratten is a good coach very poorly treated by our club, he has introduced a very new game style to the Aints that opposition coaches have yet to be exposed to, and so it is yet to be deconstructed.
By the same token, it was disappointing that we couldn't play our game our way, we were reactive all night.
I have to question the validity of the three talls, we looked better with McKay out, the KPFs looked better organised perhaps because they were less hesitant and not getting in each others way! But our KPFs didn't really make much difference, we were smashed in the middle and in our own D50. It doesn't matter how good your defenders are, when the ball enters and re-enters with such freedom and frequency any defender will struggle.
To my eyes, the Saints play similar to how we did under Ratten.
Re the three talls, I'm not sure why we can't get it to work - the Lions had McInerney (204cm), Hipwood (203), and Mc Stay (195), and they work well together.
To my eyes, the Saints play similar to how we did under Ratten.
Re the three talls, I'm not sure why we can't get it to work - the Lions had McInerney (204cm), Hipwood (203), and Mc Stay (195), and they work well together.
Commit to quick movement of the ball sets the talls up, as we did against Geelong. How good was that for our talls. Also amazing when you do move the ball quickly the skills suddenly look much better. Don't switch on, don't work, the ball will never get in the 50 properly for the talls. We have to be committed to the task each week, not pick and choose when to switch on.
To my eyes, the Saints play similar to how we did under Ratten.
Re the three talls, I'm not sure why we can't get it to work - the Lions had McInerney (204cm), Hipwood (203), and Mc Stay (195), and they work well together.
Ports achillies heel is no tall defenders, Brisbane had a massive height advantage down forward, makes it strange they gave away the 199cm Howard to Stkilda.
Ports achillies heel is no tall defenders, Brisbane had a massive height advantage down forward, makes it strange they gave away the 199cm Howard to Stkilda.
Yes, that's true. They showed a graphic on The Round So Far that highlighted precisely this point. But I'm not sure that's the main reason their forward line functions so well. They just seem more coherent, more cognisant of one's another's patterns and movements, of the defenders' patterns and movements etc., than our boys.